Friday, August 21, 2009

Orientation at Drake

Check out this killer schedule of events for Drake first year students.

First year students must take Crim Law, Civ Pro I, Contracts I, Legal Writing, Legal Research, and Torts during their first semester. So, I am sure that an hour and a half discussion on Bar Admission is crucial to someone’s first semester success (which largely determines one’s future in the law). At least, the students can catch a nap during this snooze-fest. Five days of torture and boredom – just a taste of what awaits you the rest of your law school experience. Welcome to the "profession" of law.

“Responding to the Call of Public Service” appears to be another great, exciting lecture! And one hour and twenty-five minutes of it! Yay!! This school also requires you to purchase a book on legal ethics written by one of its writing instructors. (At least it did when I was a first-year student.) How ethical is that? I recall that we used the book about three times the first year, the book was only about 130 pages long, and the damn thing cost $32.95 from the SBA bookstore. I am sure those Ethics and Professionalism small group discussions went over real well.

Look what this current cohort did today: they visited the Iowa Supreme Court building. I am sure it was a life-altering experience, just like it was for me and my classmates. Wait a minute – it was not a life-changing event. It was a total bore and a complete waste of time and gas money.

Tomorrow (Saturday) promises to be even better! There is a student luncheon for Focus on Diversity. Sure, classes start on Monday but go ahead, attend the diversity luncheon instead. Your Torts professor will not expect you to have read Katko v. Briney before coming to class.

I remember my first day of orientation. I basically dreaded law school from that moment on. After going $38,000 in debt, I now have an 11 x 14 inch law degree gathering dust on a desk somewhere.


  1. I hoped to meet hot girls at my orientation. There weren't any. They almost never have a problem with unemployment.

  2. If you had actually opened that ethics book, a piece of paper would have fallen out. The paper stated that the proceeds of that book were all donated and the charity was named.

  3. All this griping, whining, and wailing over $38,000 worth of debt?

    Even if you work doc review for $30/hour for a couple of years your investment in your JD will have paid for itself over what you could have made otherwise.

    You kids are so spoiled....thinking it is "only fair" to graduate and make $60,000 or above within a couple of years of getting your feet wet.

    You are pathetic if you couldn't knock that $38,000 of debt out while living in your sister-in-law's basement. A minimum wager could do that if they knew how to budget.

  4. To the troll above: are you having fun in Des Moines, Iowa? How is the weather over there?

    I am simply telling my story, so that someone else can avoid the same mistake. Why do YOU care whether the law school industry's misleading info is scrutinized? Also, this problem is not endemic to Drake or other third tier schools.

    A person making the federal minimum wage would earn $15,080 in annual gross income. So, at the same rate, such a person could pay off that amount in just over 2.5 years (if he bought nothing else). Now, are you done displaying your pathetic math skills?

  5. You make MANY valid points in your blog. But I, who was at the BOTTOM of the Drake Law class, was able to find a LAW job within a matter of weeks after graduating. True, it pays around $50 K per year.

    But, I went to school for KNOWLEDGE and a JOB I could love. You went to school for MONEY ONLY. And, really, I love my job. Drake is a good school; but if you don't use the career services center, you will land on your butt. And it sounds like you never went over there once. So, what do you expect? There are losers everywhere.

  6. Drake Law School is a middling, trifling law school that provides its graduates with TTT job prospects. If you are a recent graduate, then send me an email so that I can confirm that you attended this third tier institution of higher learning. Or post your name on your next comment.

    Did you daddy hand you a job, upon graduation? People without a silver spoon in their mouth go to school so they can make a living, i.e. pay their bills, repay their student loans, buy food, and keep a decent roof over their heads. My friend's father earned his J.D. from the University of Iowa College of Law decades ago. He was a private lawyer for many years, and then went to work for the legal department of a major financial company in Des Moines. Guess what he makes per year - $50K!! And you come on here purporting to be BOTTOM of the class of a TTT and making $50K per year.

    I knew one classmate who graduated in the top 5 students of our class. He had a job lined up after law school, working insurance defense - and he would be making less than $50K! So unless, your daddy provided you with a job, I don't buy your story. It simply doesn’t add up.

    A graduate of the Class of 2010 commented on this blog recently, and informed me that the outgoing SBA president did not have employment lined up on graduation day. In my class, there were people on Law Review and Moot Court who did not have jobs, or any real prospects. I know SEVERAL Drake JDs with strong grades who are taking court-appointed garbage, in order to survive. I guess these people are losers too, right?!

    Also, any honest Drake Law grad will tell you that the pathetic career services office is too busy helping the top ten students find employment - to even bother helping out the average student.

  7. Some of the points you make are valid, but not believing someone makes what they say they did doesn't help your credibility. I too am a recent Drake grad who was very close to the bottom of my class. I make just over 60K. My debt of 180K (undergrad and law) stresses me out everyday, not to mention the credit card debt I incurred being a poor student for seven years even though I worked while I was in school.

    I did not use career services, did not know any other lawyers or have rich parents. I applied for a job that my law school internships prepared me for.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for, but if you look hard enough, or just give it some time, you'll probably end up finding it. I did and I didn't even know it was what I was looking for. I'm glad I went to law school despite its ranking and despite my debt. I got what I could out of the experience and it has worked for me. Best of luck to you

  8. Recent Drake grad,

    “A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary. If you borrow more than twice your expected starting salary you will find it extremely difficult to repay the debt.”

    You seem to think differently:

    “I'm glad I went to law school despite its ranking and despite my debt. I got what I could out of the experience and it has worked for me.”

    You owe approximately three times your current salary. Seeing that you believe you made a wise choice, I question your story and your conclusion. I guess many people cannot bring themselves to admit when they made a bad decision. Plenty of people make $50K-$60K without carrying $180K in life-altering NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt.

    I received a comment and subsequent email from a Drake Law 2010 grad, informing me that the outgoing SBA president noted that he did not have employment lined up at graduation. Law school is an expensive proposition and a risky bet.

    I know plenty of former classmates who took out $120K+ to attend Third Tier Drake. Many of them are now getting by on court-appointed work. Others simply returned to their prior jobs/industry. And some made more money prior to law school. During my third year at this third tier commode, a 2009 graduate spoke to my criminal procedure class. She worked as a public defender - and that is one TOUGH act to pull off, for a recent law school grad - and stated that she made money before law school!! She also said that she is glad she made the decision to attend law school.

    Do yourself a favor and head over to page 17 of Drake University’s 2009 IRS Form 990, Part VII - Section Aaa:

    The following figures reflect TOTAL COMPENSATION for 2008:

    Mark Kende made $218,542; James Adams, the grouch who loves to belittle law students, likewise made $199,048 – one would think pulling down $200K a year would make this curmudgeon happy; former dean David Walker earned $229,099; and Neil Hamilton made $219,295.

    You can also see that FOUR of the FIVE highest compensated employees at Drake University are “law professors”. How does that sit with your sense of morality?

    Lastly, you seem genuine. I will point out to you that I found a non-legal job within 2 months of graduating from Third Tier Drake - through my own efforts. Career Development is worthless, unless you are in the top ten percent of the class. I was fortunate to land this job - and I recognize that. Good luck to you also.

  9. I enjoyed reading your response to my comment and appreciate that you believed I seemed genuine . . . because I am.

    You said, "seeing that you believe you made a wise choice, I question your story and your conclusion. I guess many people cannot bring themselves to admit when they made a bad decision."

    Again, this weakens your credibility with me. I stumbled onto your blog and have enjoyed reading it. But believe me, this is my story and it is my conclusion that I'm glad I went to law school. I'm even glad I went to this law school. Its not a matter of admitting I made a bad decision.

    I wanted to work in the law, so I went to law school, I now practice law and I feel fortunate that I make what I do even though its not what some of my other classmates are probably making.

    If the goal of someone going to law school is to ultimately practice law, then I guess law school was the only means to that end.

    I wholeheartedly respect your views on Drake and its value and I enjoy reading about it. I was there when it switched to third tier and as naive (and as bottom of the class) as I was, I didn't even get what the big deal was.

    I was going to law school to take the bar to get my license to practice law. Maybe I didn't think that far ahead to how Drake would look on my resume'. I don't think my current employer cared too much either.

    Keep fighting your fight. No matter what, we have this as our common bond. We should use it for all we can. If that means you stopping even one poor lost soul from making the mistake you believe you made or if it be me convincing you that some of your fellow alumni (not in the top ten percent) are happy with their experience and have got some true value from it, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

  10. Nando, you F'n idiot, if you hated it from orientation WHY in the good lords name did you keep going for another 3 years? Why didn't you walk you ass out right then and there and get 3/4 of your tution back and become whatever you think you'd have been better at?

    What type of idiot keeps showing up for 3 years when he knows how much he hates in day 1?


    How are things going in New York, moron? I actually like the city. In an area of that size, there are bound to be many cretins such as you.

    Time Visitor Session Referrer

    Mar 12 2011 9:09pm 1 action 8m 42s
    Mar 12 2011 7:10pm 4 actions 5m 28s
    Mar 12 2011 6:20pm 5 actions 12m 58s
    Mar 12 2011 3:20pm 18 actions 44m
    Mar 12 2011 2:49pm 4 actions 17m 34s
    Mar 10 2011 1:41am 5 actions 5m 16s
    Mar 8 2011 2:05pm 4 actions 5m 41s
    Mar 7 2011 4:54pm 3 actions 11m 38s
    Mar 6 2011 10:59am 2 actions 1m 15s
    Mar 5 2011 6:33am 3 actions 2m 38s

    Borderline retard: I received a full tuition scholarship to attend Third Tier Drake. For some reason, the trolls on this board cannot use proper grammar, punctuation or sentence structure. Hell, most of them have the reading comprehension “skills“ of a ten year old chimp. Of course, none of these pigs can make a cogent argument as to why law school is a good investment for most students. They also resort to speculation.

    By the way, it seems that most law students hated orientation - including those who later make law review and become lawyers. If you get into law school - most likely an overpriced TTTT with no scholarship - you will see for yourself that orientation is worse than a night with your mother and no protection. Have a nice day, bitch.

  12. What's wrong with NewYork?

    More importantly, why not answer the real questions instead of just crying and cursing?

    I get it, you think you rock, and yet the rest of the world who is "worse" than you DOES get licensed and DOES make a real mans salary.

    But you get to rock winner......

  13. You are actually correct Nando.

    For psycho's who can't get licensed due to mental illness, should avoid lawschool. For people who CAN get licensed it is worth it.

    Sorry, we don't all have dogs telling us what to do at night........

  14. We both know that you cannot write to save your life. Now, you can’t read either? Did you not see where I stated that I like New York? I also answered your question. I had a full scholarship. Why the hell would I drop out, after orientation?!

    Herwig Schlunk, "law professor" at Vanderbilt Law School, wrote this economic analysis. His conclusion is that law school is a poor investment for most students. Look up "opportunity costs" and "return on investment."

    "And for the opportunity to enter a saturated legal market with long odds against them, the tens of thousands newly minted lawyers who graduate each year from non-elite schools will have paid around $150,000 in tuition and living expenses, and given up three years of income. Many leave law school with well over $100,000 in non-dischargeable debt, obligated to pay $1,000 a month for thirty years.

    This dismal situation was not created by the current recession—which merely spread the pain up the chain into the lower reaches of elite schools. This has been going on for years."

    This is from Brian Tamanaha, "law professor" at Washington University in St. Louis. Is the message starting to sink in, Stupid?!?!

    Look at what law firm management consultant Jerome Kowalski concludes about “legal education”:

    “If you have reached this point in this note, in the unlikely event you haven’t already come to these other rather undebatable conclusions, here they are: (a) law schools must stop behaving like the beauty schools of 1990 and (b) law schools should make full, fair and candid disclosure to every law school applicant (before they even remit the application fee) and have each applicant sign a document that he or she has read the disclosures and understands them.”

    On July 30, 2010 at 9:24 pm, Professor J. Gordon Hylton at Marquette Law School wrote:

    “For a thought-provoking (and sobering) blog devoted to the realities of legal education in the 21st century, one should check out Third Tier Reality”

    Look who was quoted in the New York Times:

  15. So despite all the filler BS you like to type, you are still trying to argue that it is worth sitting in a classroom and losing the income that you could have earned working those years while your wife had to support you(she must have really appreciated your NOT working to attend a school you HATED and didn't want to work in the field of)

    THEN you claim that it is not only ok to just waste those 3 years of your life and lost income, but also to PAY to sit the MPRE, but NOT the bar(unless a for sure job is already lined up that meets your satisfaction prior to taking the exam)?

    Here is a better set of questions Nando,

    (which I know you won't answer since you are a coward and a fool)

    1) WHY waste those years and lost income and be a "man" that you claim to be while mooching off your working wife, if you knew you didn't want it?

    2) How does it make more sense to attend lawschool and NOT sit the bar? You keep ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of even T4 grads(who are MAN enough to sit the exam instead of crying about it) DO get a job as a lawyer in less than a year making MUCH MORE than you do now.

    caveat.......How do you justify your wasted life?

  16. To the cockroach who posted at 8:13 am,

    I have answered these questions, throughout this blog. I landed a non-law job within two months of graduating from Third Tier Drake. Should I have walked away from a job that offered good benefits and several weeks of paid vacation time, so that I could pursue a “career” in toiletlaw?!?! Also, what is "manly" about paying bar dues, when one is not practicing law?!

    I did not have a legal job lined up, Stupid. This means that I would have needed to start my own firm. Yes, that is ideal, isn't it?! By your “logic” – based on the mindset and life of a lemming – I should have chosen the following idiotic path: piss away about $3,000 so that I could pass the bar exam; get on the court-appointed list; meet clients in libraries and coffee shops; teach myself how to practice law; and hopefully not receive a bar complaint from an unhappy client. (You would be surprised how easily a guilty as sin client will become upset, with his free legal representation.)

    Listen, bitch: if that is the path you want someone else to take, have YOU done so? (By their fruits, ye shall know them.) If not, then keep your mouth shut.

    “You keep ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of even T4 grads(who are MAN enough to sit the exam instead of crying about it) DO get a job as a lawyer in less than a year making MUCH MORE than you do now.”

    I realize that I have removed your nuts already, bitch. However, it is time for YOU to provide some info – to back up YOUR claims. By the way, I did work during the summers. Furthermore, I supported my wife for 18 months – after law school. It took her that long to find a job, ass-hat. Plus, I pay all the bills now and we have great insurance.

    There were 44,000 JDs for the Class of 2009. These graduates were competing for 28,901 jobs requiring bar passage. (Hint, dumbass: not all of these were true attorney jobs.) Look at this two-page PDF, ball-less wonder. See how many desperate souls hung out a shingle. Also, many of the Biglaw hires were no-offered. For some reason, large law firms do not like to hire new associates, in a weak economy.

    As it stands, I have a steady paycheck and good benefits. This allows me to pay the mortgage, heat, air, electricity, water, sewer, garbage, etc. It even permits me to make extra payments on my student loans. When you come on here – trying to act like a man – make sure you have the balls and the facts to back up your assertions. Otherwise, I will continue to stomp a mud-hole in your ass, cretin.

  17. DAMN your an idiot. No you shouldn't have "walked away" from your glorious >$40K non legal job, BUT you should've taken the bar(if they'd let you) since then and only then, would people truely be interested in your applications for legal jobs. That's like saying "I couldn't get a job that required a CPA license so I didn't sit the exam". That's RETARDED!

    Here is what a normal person would do. Take the job, take the barexam, wait untill something in the legal field popped up, take said job, move on with life.

    Everyone else but you seems to be able to make it work. What's your excuse other than ignorance and being scared?

  18. You remind me of the lifers at fastfood jobs who say "at least I've got a job!!!" when asked why they don't try to find something better.


  19. WAIT a minute, you said lawschool gave you a FREE ride. How can you be making "extra payments" of your student loans if you went for free as you claim on a full scholarship?

    -pray tell?

  20. dude, lay off the man. You are clearly a pre-law major. (or someone who is paying full sticker) A full scholly is stagnant, and doesn't adjust for inflation (or tuition hikes. IF you had a scholly, you would know.
    Despite being highly emotional, Nando lays out straight statistical facts. Plus, unless you have been searching( or recently job hunting) you would know that the reality of the legal employment market is in fact quite dire.

  21. "DAMN your an idiot."

    Try this spelling and punctuation, dickface: "Damn, you're an idiot." Do you see how that makes sense?! "Your" signifies possession, as in your mother needs to wash her vagina thoroughly with bath soap and water, March 16 11:11 am, 11:13 am, and 5:24 pm.

    "You're" refers to "you are" - as in "you are a brainless piece of trash."

    By the way, I did receive a full scholarship, lying pig. However, Third Tier Drake did not give me a stipend for living expenses. As such, I took out some loans to cover those costs. This further illustrates that "higher education" is run FOR the benefit of college and universities, not students! My wife, who has a Master's degree, was only able to earn about $31K per year. We kept our costs low, but I took out $37K for living expenses - over the course of three years.

  22. claim to be "a man" do to your ability to make (under)$40K and "pay your bills" and yet your wife "only" made $31K and you STILL had to take out loans to pay rent?

    Dude, lots of people make $20K and pay rent.

    Now I get it, you have a crack addiction. It is expensive. Try the free clinic.

  23. To the functional illiterate who posted at 8:40 am:

    The correct spelling is "due to your ability," dumbass. By the way, moron: rent is one among many living expenses. Learn how to read, bitch. I paid rent when I was making $22K, years ago.

    Not everyone can be like you and live with an older man, for free. I'm sure you are paying your rent "somehow." Who knows? Maybe you like the feel of an older man ramming your ass from behind. If you are wondering about those sores on your ass and genitals - as well as the scabs on your body - go visit a free STD clinic, in your area.

    By the way, I have never touched illicit drugs. Hell, I rarely take aspirin. I also do not drink alcohol. In contrast, it appears that YOU are reducing your medication - without consulting your physician.

  24. George W. Bush

    Lawyer, no good grammar, Greatest Prez of all

    By the way, why are you so homophobic. What's next bring my (assumed) race into it?


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