Sunday, January 3, 2010

Down the Drain: Drexel Law School


Costs:

Tuition for the 2009-2010 school year: $32,200 + $721 in fees – yeah, sign me up!


Ranking: Outside the “Top Four Tiers” of American Law School; a great investment, nonetheless, right?!?

Law schools in Pennsylvania with their respective USN&WR ranking in parentheses:

Penn State (65)
Pitt (71)
Duqesne (TTTT)
Penn (8)
Temple (65)
Villanova (61)
Drexel (TTTTT)
Widener (TTTT with campuses in Harrisburg, PA and Wilmington, DE)

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/

With four schools already in the Philadelphia area, I guess the ABA had $olid rea$on$ for accrediting one more law school in that locale. After all, Philadelphia so badly needs another 150 or so JDs every year. And, of course, Drexel grads will have a shot at Biglaw – and other decent legal employment. The University of Pennsylvania has nothing on Drexel! Just ask the admissions officers/salesmen – they’ll confirm what I just said.

Don’t forget the plethora of law schools in surrounding states. Oh, the industry shills think that JDs from schools in Ohio, Delaware, Maryland, Connecticut, West Virginia, New York, and New Jersey will be content to stay in their respective states, you say?

Here are the Admissions Criteria for entry into the Prestigious Earle Mack School of Law:

Candidates for admission are required to demonstrate excellence and leadership in their careers. They must have earned a baccalaureate degree from an institution accredited by one of the regional accrediting associations of the United States or, if foreign educated, a degree equivalent to a four year baccalaureate degree, have registered for Law School Data Assembly Service (LSDAS) and take the Law School Admissions Test (LSAT). The candidate’s undergraduate grade point average and LSAT scores will be strong factors in determining admission to the Drexel University Earle Mack School of Law. In addition, the Admissions Committee will consider a student’s extracurricular activities, work experience, and volunteer service. The Earle Mack School of Law seeks a diverse class of students from different racial and ethnic backgrounds, from different parts of the country and world, and from different socioeconomic backgrounds.

Read: Candidates must have earned a Bachelor’s degree from an institution accredited – AT A MINIMUM - by the Cracker Jack Company; have undergone the rigorous process of registering with LSDAS; and received a score of 145 or higher on the LSAT. If said candidate’s UGPA is below a 3.0, other considerations will be taken into account, such as volunteer service to refugees in Africa, serving soup to homeless people, or prior work experience waiting tables or slinging lattes. We also love “diversity,” even at the expense of quality of legal education. We also instill the value of public service and pro bono work into our students’ heads, so that they will be content to earn $32K upon graduation.

The school’s motto seems to be “My Choice.” Well, if YOU have the choice between waiting tables with your undergraduate degree in Communication from Kaplan University, or “furthering your education” and attaining a law degree at Drexel, I hope you have the common sense to choose the former. You will probably end up waiting tables after graduating from Drexel, anyway. You may as well avoid an extra $130K in debt.

Don’t flush your future away on this “investment.” Wash your hands of this decision. Remember, the banks will still be profitable without you going six-figures in the hole.

125 comments:

  1. Amen.

    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that the Pennsylvania legal market was atrocious in 2007 before Drexel and before the great recession. Everyone at my old firm lamented the opening of this school. If you're going to Drexel (or any law school in PA now, really) try and stay on good terms with your mom & dad because they will be taking you back in when you graduate.

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  2. But the school is meeting the supply and demand. WHat is so wrong with meeting the demand for more law schools by students? If they are willing to pay $32,000 to go there, then I see no problem.

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  3. I had an uncle who did real well for himself in law, and he never had anything good to say about law school. He went to a top 20 school even. The people defending the law schools are more than likely work in a LS admissions office. Because the really good lawyers are too busy to check out your site and the others like it. They don’t care about angry law grads. If the schools produce an excess number of JDs, it doesn’t affect the top lawyers. They are too busy working on cases, or meeting with potential big dollar clients. But they also don’t go out of their way to defned the law schools, because they know it’s a rat race where few succeed.

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  4. I realize that opening a law school is extremely profitable. But I remember a time, when happy graduates donated a ton of money to their alma mater and that was considered profitable and necessary to running a school. Opening up yet another low life law school in an area that is oversaturated already is a surefire way of getting no money back in donations from your graduates.

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  5. *clap clap*

    Add to this that two founding deans jumped ship for other schools before the first Drexel class even graduated.

    PLUS the school's on admission that only 50% of first class (2009) has jobs. "A little more than half of the school’s graduating class will have full-time jobs in hand when they receive their diplomas." http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2009/05/18/focus3.html

    I also know that some of that lucky 50% includes people who are now working at the law school and Drexel undergrad in admissions.

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  6. Thanks for the article, Kelly. I ran across it about a month ago, but decided against using it. After you brought this to my attention, I may as well respond.

    I like the quote from Raheem Watson, a privileged, connected young lawyer, i.e. “The Overbrook High School and Penn State University graduate was steered toward a legal career by his mentor and godfather, the late Rohan Lee, a former Philadelphia School Board president and established lawyer.”

    If only the rest of your graduating class had such strong connections, Raheem. With regard to rescinded and deferred jobs among his classmates, Raheem had this to say:

    “Now they are just looking at ways to move forward rather than complaining and getting tied up in self-pity," Watson said. “A number are looking for ways to use their law degree without practicing. Some are joining accounting firms, others are starting their own practice, staying in school to the get their [masters of laws degrees].”

    Yes, because LLMs will set them apart from the multitudes of unemployed attorneys. And staying in school will only mean that one is accruing MORE interest on non interest-subsidized student loans, and private loans. Joining accounting firms? Did your classmates go to law school so that they could work in accounting firms? Also, starting your own practice in an ALREADY-CROWDED MARKET, i.e. the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, is crazy. Someone need only open a Philadelphia-area phone book to see what the chances of success are for a recent graduate who decides to hang his own shingle. Remember, not everyone has Raheem’s political and familial connections.

    Also, how many of your classmates are using their law degrees to drive taxis, serve mochaccinos, wait tables, and selling insurance?

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  7. Exactly. I was so disgusted that I left, and I abandonded the law degree entirely. Now I'm doing exactly what I want without having finshed law school: I'm a law clek for an ALJ. I'm pursuing another graduate degree part-time - and completing it without loans/debt for less than the price of a year at Drexel Law while earning a degree that will help me progress in the government system.

    I just love TTR for getting the word out there. I feel badly for my former classmates who are fighting over unpaid internships for Summer 2010.

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  8. Didn't Beasley go to Drexel?

    I'm sure he has some pointed comments about this toilet.

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  9. Beasley is the name of the law school at Temple.

    Being a proud graduate of Villanova myself (go wildcats!), I actually thought I would have some respect for Drexel when it opened up. I had thought that the Drexel philosophy of requiring their kids to do co-ops during school (kinda like more complex internships) would give their students at least a foot in the door when it came to employment after graduation. Unfortunately for the Drexel grads, that did not seem to materialize.

    The Philly market is indeed oversaturated. Although at one point, it seemed it might be able to limp along because it had a somewhat strong demand for document reviewers. The Philly area was a somewhat strong alternative to NYC because of lower office space rent in general and also because the review attorneys themselves cost less in wages. In addition, because many pharmaceutical companies are headquartered in the Delaware Valley (around Philly) area, there were lots of pharmaceutical doc reviews held in Philly. To my knowledge, that seems to be a thing of the past though. I was actually on a project that was at one point called the biggest project in the history of mankind. There were at least three hundred attorneys at my site alone, and there were two sites. People make fun of doc review, but at least it was a gig to put money on the table. Plus, the horror shows of NYC never really occurred in Philly (probably because Philly cost significantly less to staff).

    The situation was less than ideal, but in retrospect, those were the days. Income around $1,300 for normal weeks, of which maybe 3 hours were done coding and 38 here done goofing off.

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  10. Hey, I just got recruited by Drexel Law along with tantalizing me with some scholarship dollar figures (email)...

    If I come on out East, can I bunk at your place?

    Doug
    tobeajd.blogspot.com

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  11. Not to ruin anyone's day (and the OP's...), but Drexel University itself is not that bad. Their new medical school is quite selective, as is their engineering program.

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  12. No. haha. The area around Drexel and UPenn are pretty much located at the same spot, so there's plenty of student housing options. Good luck to you wherever you end up. (I'd totally shoot for UPenn over Drexel though. Not sure how much of a possibility that is for you.)

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  13. Got to love the these Third Tier Schools! Chapman University School of Law in Orange County CA. At 40K per year at least for tuition, plus books and no help when you graduate for employment, wtf? The best part is the hounding I continually get from the freakin' school to donate!!! I think we're even. More than even.

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  14. Nando, I fully support your fight against fraudulent job reporting and other b.s. law schools pull, but I will tell you, the fact that you have to finish in the top 10% in even T2 school to get a good salary out of law school, was a truism even when I graduated in 2002. Now when I graduated the BigLaw firm I went to allowed me to sit on my ass for a year, bill 1400 hours, and collect the salary. These days offers are deferred or rescinded. So, things are much worse. But I do not think any T2 or worse graduate should be surprised that there isn't much of a job market for those outside of the 10%. For years I have told friends and acquaintances interested in law school, unless they're going to a top 20 school or better (or mommy and daddy are footing the bill), that they MUST be in the top 10%. For T3 an T4, it's probably really top handful of students.

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  15. Nando and other posters here are just liberals who hate the free market and cheer when our brave troops die. Go move to France you DUMBOCRAT losers.

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  16. Rush, is that you?

    Are you high on OC again?

    Don't you have a lynching to attend somewhere?

    Doug

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  17. I have developed theories about why they churn out so many JD's.

    Obviously, the biggest one is money. The law school I went to propped up the rest of the university financially. Sad but true, that they took a cut of our money and sent it to the undergrad program that was hemorrhaging money because people figured out that they could go to a public school of equal quality across town for a fraction of the cost. Naturally, in the three-year time I attended, the hourly cost of tuition jumped over $200! They had also increased the number of students, but I think they decided to downscale that endeavour when they realized that they might have to hire more professors.

    Anyway, down to the nitty gritty: I think one of the reasons why the ABA continues accrediting Pizza School of Laws is that it deals with the "race" issue. In olden times, law schools were the bastion of rich white people. They could graduate about 50-100 from their class and not have to hear anybody bitch about it because nobody outside of that select group could afford to get in. Student loans changed all of that. Since this opened up the market to other people who would not normally get in, they had to do something to make sure that their core students were not "harmed" in the flood of other people that could potentially take their spots. So, they increased the number of students to make sure that everybody was taken care of....however, things didn't really change for the core group. They still got jobs working with their parents while everybody else was left in the dust. The old geezers who do most of the hiring recognize their own kind and give them the inside track. While many of them aren't Biglaw jobs, a lot of them are just better-quality jobs, period. Imagine going to work at an established firm where you are guaranteed to inherit the reigns? Can Biglaw guarantee that? Of course not! To me, Biglaw is like a shiny trinket that distracts from the issue at hand: you're stuck in a cubicle, doing only one type of work, doing that for 90 hours a week, and then you are dumped in a few short years and can't take a single client with you. People get excited about Biglaw because they think its their way of beating the system. You can work hard and get a good paying job based upon your grades. However, truth be known, those associates are regarded as garbage, but they put on this charade of wining and dining them for the clients' benefits. It makes it look like they're working hard to get the top quality so that somebody will keep on forking out cash for their services. They even laughably try to hire people with a pretense of making it look like this new hire will one day be partner, which is why women are still excluded as hiring a woman who might pop out a baby in her lifetime and quit might be an acknowledgement that absolutely nobody they hire will last four years in that job. Once the pomp and circumstance have worn off of hiring the "future of their firm," they are quietly shunted away through the garbage chute because their purpose has been filled....and they bring on another round of associates to do the "young blood" routine again and again.

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  18. Snary Girl,

    I feel bad for you. The liberal blame game is a trap that you may never escape from. Your reality construct helps you deal with your own insufficiency and failure. However, the TRUE SELF MADE MAN can see the WORLD of OPPORTUNITY that exists in the free market. I am a highly successful business executive and self-made industrialist. I know countless SUCCESSFUL attorneys who enjoy their job and make well into six figures.

    I hope someday you can join us in the FREE MARKET OF SUCCESS AND PROSPERITY!!!

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  19. Great post, Nando!

    Anyone who goes to law school and anyone who has gone to law school in the past decade is a complete and utter moron.

    That's all these law school administrators want is to suck in innocent young students and get them enslaved to the lenders.

    They're worse than Hitler. All of them.

    I'm glad I found your blog, because I was almost tricked into the foolishness that is attending law school. Hell, I could have gone for free, but I won't give them the satisfaction!

    Good enough?

    Doug

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  20. "Bush gop patriotl" and "Proudgoppatriot", we get it. People are not that dumb; you are one in the same person. We get it.

    Where did you got to school? Did you go? Do you really think the world is so simple that everything can be reduced to "conservative" vs "liberal", "Republican" vs "Democrat", "patriot" vs "traitor" and "loser" vs "winner"? Please provide some support, no matter how meagerly, oblique, or tangential, that EVERYONE here is a 'liberal' that wants 'our soldiers to die' and vote Joseph Stalin into power.

    I am assuming that you want people to sake you seriously; if so, considered speaking less, or perhaps not at all. The "free market"? Are you thick? Is English your second language? These blogs are pointing out a lack of transparency in the so called 'market'. Do you think government protection of oligarchies such as the law school cartel and wall street is the 'free market' in action? Please tell me what it is you are smoking. May I try some?

    Do do realize that 'liberals' and 'conservatives' have both contributed to the problem of the saturation of the legal job market as well as the current state of the economy? Perhaps you are one of those people who believe that if Bush were president, we would still be riding the tidal wave of prosperity that swept the country in the last 8 years.

    I suppose if the entire country just changed their attitude they could join you in your 'FREE MARKET OF SUCCESS AND PROSPERITY!!!'. In your stereotypical type-A personality fashion you feel the need to jaw off and belittle people and their problems, without attempting to understand them, all the while ignoring basic reality and pushing your self-serving political agenda. Way to go champ. You rock the competition. You really impress me you confident 'go getter' you.

    Let's for argument sake agree that you are smarter then everyone else here. Let's say that everyone here is a loser, unlike you. What is your point? Guess what, if you die, nobody will care because deep down nobody loves or even moderately likes anyone like you. At best they are just using you the same way you use them. You are mold.

    Instead of just waiting for your turn to speak(or write) so that you can shout slogans, why don't you attempt to care about what other people have to say. You don't actually have to care about anyone but yourself. Just give your mouth a break for a few minutes and your brain a chance to exercise. You may enjoy it. Sometimes people say relevant and insightful things.

    People like you are the biggest disgrace to the political right in particular and the United States in general. Right wing nut jobs like yourself would embarrass Adolf Hitler himself. Consider reading a book sometime. Think.

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  21. Golly. It doesn't sound like anybody here really likes law. I think it represents the most fascinating set of subjects I ever found and manages to wrap itself around history, religion and literature at the same time. Oh. And that chance to be helpful to others. Then again, I'm probably old enough to be your mother, I've seen the world and own my house debt free. And when I finish school next year I'll be coming back to a medium size southern city where I grew up and can get a job. My point being--don't let school get in your way if you love the law and are clever enough to work out a life in it that won't ruin your Christmas.

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  22. Nando, I'm a little confused. You got a law school education for free, right? Full scholarship? Which means that some group of people somewhere chose YOU out of a stack of other deserving candidates to invest a huge chunk of money in, with the hope that you would go out and do something productive with your education--better your own situation, better your community etc. If anything, we might blame the school for poor judgment in investing scarce resources in you.

    Try seeing through your haze of self-pity long enough to understand that you took money that someone else could have used--and try to be conscious of how you are repaying your good fortune (and your school's faith and investment). I realize you think you are doing the world a service by alerting them to the dangers of getting a law education; but I'm not sure I understand your point. Is it that getting a law degree actually harmed you? Are you LESS likely to get a job now than before you went to school? Because it can't be that you were "deceived" into making a bad "investment", because it is the school that invested itself in you by giving you a free ride. They are the one's getting a bad return, not you.

    And, just as an aside, you might be interested to know that applications at most law schools are UP this year--so, to this point, your blog has been just about as successful as your other endeavors in life. You might stop and think about whether it is this record of accomplishment (rather than your free legal education) that explains your current joblessness.

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  23. How much of this blog have you read? I did receive a full-tuition scholarship. But I also took out $37K in student loans for living expenses. You also did not take into account my opportunity costs. So, I fail to see how I received a "legal education" for free. Tell me that when I make my next student loan payment.

    Also, this blog is not about self-pity. (So if I don't praise the law school industry, I am engaging in self-pity?!) I made a mistake. I own up to that. I am making payments on my mistake. The reality is this: if law school was a bad decision for someone like me, imagine those poor souls who took out $90K-$160K for a "law school education." Many of those people are unemployed or working as bartenders, taxi drivers, insurance salesmen, etc. (Am I engaging in self-pity by thinking about those people?)

    This blog is about third tier reality. We are not here to discuss some academic exercise. We are not here to talk about the mating habits of fireflies or the effects of the Rule Against Perpetuities on 17th century English serfs. We are talking about people's lives, their financial livelihood. No fuzzy optimism here, guy. If you want that, go listen to the state of the union address tomorrow night. Or read some Jane Austen.

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  24. I'm currently in the military and am seriously considering law school. Understanding the depth of experience from the posters of this blog, I am curious what you would do in my situation?

    I will graduate from a lower T2 with no more than 10k in debt (including living expenses) because of my military background and language skills I am interested in working for the government. For people who may not need a t14 school or BigLaw, and will not graduate with serious debt, what advice to you give us?

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  25. you are an idiot. I am a student at drexel law and work closely with the admissions office. You are a flaming idiot to think that YOU know what the requirements are, when our lsat mean is 162 this year. get a clue. and a life.

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  26. drexel doesn't require co-ops. they had a higher bar rate passage than vanilla-nova.

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  27. why are you so bitter? vaginas always hide behind blogs. do something with your life. it sucks you went to a shitty school no one made you go. you probably were last in your class and probably some dumb fat idiot. so shut up. there are a lot of lawyers that do a lot of good. and just because you are sitting around wasting your life doesn't mean everyone else will. idiot

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  28. To 6:54, does it surprise you that people get upset when they get scammed? And why are you so angry when people speak the truth about this corrupt industry? What stake do YOU have in keeping the status quo?

    If you are intent on going to law school - REGARDLESS of the evidence - then go! But if you are this defensive of your (stupid) decision to go, then perhaps you are aware that this is a poor decision.

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  29. I'm currently in the military and am seriously considering law school. Understanding the depth of experience from the posters of this blog, I am curious what you would do in my situation?

    I will graduate from a lower T2 with no more than 10k in debt (including living expenses) because of my military background and language skills I am interested in working for the government. For people who may not need a t14 school or BigLaw, and will not graduate with serious debt, what advice to you give us?

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  30. i was at a law school event and people were making fun of this blog intensely. it was pretty funny. they found out who you really are. your peers had a lot to say about you.

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  31. If your story is true, we'll see how hard they are laughing when they are making $9.25 an hour slinging lattes at Starbucks in a few months. At least I didn't walk away from that cesspool with $100K of student loan debt.

    Also, if this "event" took place at Third Tier Drake, tell those guys that they better learn how to serve mochaccinos. Who knows? Maybe their "caffeine law" employer will let them look for attorney positions on the company's Wi-Fi - during breaks. Remember, the vast majority of those people are 47 days away from graduating without a job.

    Out of curiosity, were they also laughing at the fact that they each spent $30,750 in tuition this school year to listen to "professors" who practiced law for 30 minutes before teaching law at Drake for 30 years? Because that is hilarious!

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  32. I'm currently in the military and am seriously considering law school. Understanding the depth of experience from the posters of this blog, I am curious what you would do in my situation?

    I will graduate from a lower T2 with no more than 10k in debt (including living expenses) because of my military background and language skills I am interested in working for the government. For people who may not need a t14 school or BigLaw, and will not graduate with serious debt, what advice to you give us?

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  33. what'd you get rejected?

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  34. Haha. Great piece, Nando. You fail to recognize that Drexel is a nationally recognized university, and that the LSAT mean was 160 in 2009...hardly a TTTT like the school you graduated from.

    But, in your defense, I too, would be bitter if I didn't get a job out of law school. However, considering that all of your posts make my eyes bleed, it totally makes sense why you are a blogger and not a lawyer.

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  35. I discovered that your post is now the 3rd highest link on google when you search "Drexel Law"! Nando, I am so proud!

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  36. A bit more Drexel fact finding -

    Drexel's curve is 2.65 - incredibly low, esp. given the rush at other schools to raise the curve (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/business/22law.html?src=me&ref=general). I bet they modify the curve to a 3.0 after full accrediation.
    Also, 75%-80% (http://www.earlemacklaw.drexel.edu/admissions/faqs/) of each class received scholarships, and you needed to be in the top 50% (over 2.65) to keep your scholarship, meaning it was guarenteed that 25-30% of scholarship students lost their money at the end of the year.

    Scammy law school is scammy.

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  37. Nando you are an idiot...What did you honestly expect going to a TRUE tier 3 school like Drake? As several comments have already mentioned, Drexel has a median LSAT of 162 and median GPA of 3.45...These are hardly the markings of a tier 3 school. Preach on about the downfall of going to a shitty law school, (you seem to be more than qualified on the subject), but keep Drexel law out of this. Do some actual research (a skill that obviously fell by the wayside during your law school career) and post something worth reading...

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  38. The fact is that the Earl Mack School of Law at Drexel University is a provisionally-accredited piece of trash. Did I hurt your feelings by posting the school's own figures? Are you a student at this festering commode, or are you a "professor" at said toilet? If you are in the latter camp, then feel free to hold a panel discussion or debate on the state of the American legal industry. I will be happy to blow your arguments out of the water, in such a public forum.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1933040/what_will_us_news_rank_drexel_university.html

    "Graduate schools tend to be in the same tier as the alma mater's undergraduate schools. Currently, U.S. News ranks Drexel University as 89th in the country and as a Top 1o Up-and-coming National University. Historically Drexel University has had a regional flavor."

    Look how the academics and students wet themselves when they prognosticate that US News & World Report will rank their sewer of law as a "top 100 law school." Also, did you not see where I listed the USN&WR rankings for the other Pennsylvania schools?!?!

    Drexel does seem to have a good bar passage rate. However, passing the bar exam DOES NOT EQUAL employment!

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+8

    Look, Drexel is still not ranked in the top four tiers. Yes, what a marvelous institution!!

    And lastly, an article from the Pennsylvania Lawyer entitled "Is Law School Still Worth It?" -

    http://e-ditionsbyfry.com/Olive/ODE/PAB/default.aspx?href=PAB%2F2010%2F05%2F01&pageno=20&entity=Ar02000&view=entity

    So, tell me how great and wonderful Drexel is again? Thanks for playing. Come back when you have SOME facts to back up your assertions.

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  39. You truly are a moron. Drexel is not ranked yet. US News will not rank it for a few more years. If it were ranked, it would fall in the 70 to 80 range, solid T2 and very impressive for a new school. You seem to be a bitter and ignorant person who just sucks at life.

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  40. @ 8:41,

    Did you bother to read the article in Pennsylvania Lawyer, or would that tax your little brain too much? Drexel is so desperate for prestige that it is offering top law students who transfer to this dung heap free education for their second and third years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSK01Hdulbg

    Copy and paste this URL into a web browser to listen to a TRULY PATHETIC SALES PITCH from William Sneed, assistant vice president for institutional advancement at the Earle Mack Sewer of Law at Drexel University. This garbage ought to be on a late-night infomercial.

    "Working closely with our admissions team, we're announcing a fabulous new opportunity for ten law students to enter our second or third year class TOTALLY FREE. That's right! Here's an opportunity to finish your law school education at the Earle Mack School of Law at Drexel TOTALLY FREE for your second and third years."

    [Read: "I can paint your car for $89.95! I’ll even throw in some free primer."]

    Why do you insist on stating/asserting/claiming that the school will be a second tier school in a few years? Is that some great accomplishment or something? The fact remains that the Pennsylvania legal market is oversaturated - as there are currently 8 law schools in the state/Commonwealth. Furthermore, Biglaw is now relying less on new associates; profits-per-partner is the end game. Large American law firms also have the option of hiring foreign attorneys AND non-lawyers. (Make sure to send a “thank you” card to the ABA for issuing “Ethics” Opinion 08-451.)

    http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2009/05/18/focus3.html

    Don't forget that most of Drexel's first class received full-tuition scholarships to attend this now provisionally-accredited piece of trash. The first year class consisted of 180 students and dwindled to a shade below 160. Apparently, more than 20 students saw the school for what it is: a festering pile of rot.

    If you want to see a moron, take a good look in the mirror. The fact that you cannot accept the facts means that you have a personal problem with reality. Now, go start your own blog and tell us all how wonderful Drexel Law School is.

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  41. William Sneed is not connected to Drexel in any way. Mr. Sneed made that video as a sales pitch for his consulting group. You can see this if you view the profile associated with this video.

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  42. Yes, Drexel definitely sucks. I had actually never of it until this forum came up in a search.

    25th-75th percentile GPA scores for all students 3.09-3.5
    25th-75th percentile LSAT scores for all students 153-160
    Overall acceptance rate 35.7%

    Not to mention that they don't publish their bar pass and employment rates to ranking sites!

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  43. Wow. That Sneed guy isn't even affiliated in any way with Drexel.

    ....and to the idiot who purported to do some Drexel fact-finding...the curve is a 3.0. Where are you getting your information? Also, the median LSAT was 160 with the 25th-75th range at 155-163.


    Nando, you are a little boy who got beaten down by the real world. Some people just aren't cut out for success. This is even evident with your blog. You sought out to stop 0L's from attending law school, but applications have risen this year. Students from Drexel will continue to graduate with gainful employment, and you will still be angrily posting away from your parents' basement.

    Are you going to start a blog warning everyone of the dangers of blogging and how the internet is a saturated market for bloggers?

    ReplyDelete
  44. To the moron above:

    I am actually posting from the living room of the house I own. Yes, I managed to land a job within 2 months of graduating from my TTT. You may not agree with the premise of this blog, but at least I have the balls, the brains and the backbone to call out this sick industry. Apparently, you are jealous - as all you can do is suck up to the industry. You parents must be very proud to have raised an INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST EUNUCH. Who knows? Maybe with more advances in medical technology, you may be able to grow a pair of balls.

    Please, continue to ignore the facts and rely on your little opinion. Beating down your argument with facts is so much fun.

    http://www.earlemacklaw.drexel.edu/about/ABA_accreditation/

    Drexel is not fully-accredited at this point in time. We both know it is only a matter of time before the ABA bestows full accreditation on this school, however. When that happens, I am sure you will wet your pants. But remember that this is NOT a big accomplishment; after all, the ABA is proud to approve just about any building with running water, some computers, printers, a fax machine and a few couches as a law school. Just look up Infilaw, Corp. to see how easy it is for a for-profit firm to own THREE American law schools.

    http://infilaw.com/

    The goal of this blog is to get information out to prospective law students. I have received several emails from people, letting me know that I helped them decide that law school was not for them - including from people who were ready to send in their seat deposits. In the final analysis, you cannot stop most people from making self-destructive decisions, i.e. some people - such as yourself - are simply too stupid to persuade with logic, facts and reason.

    Lastly, while I don't expect a functional retard like you to read any of the article links I post, I guess even asking you listen to a video is too strenuous for your mental capacity.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSK01Hdulbg

    Did you not see where William "Sam" Sneed introduced himself as "the new assistant vice president for institutional advancement at the Earle Mack Sewer of Law at Drexel University"?!?! If he is not affiliated with this fifth-rate piece of trash, i.e. Drexel Law School, he - and the cesspool - sure as hell wants prospective law students to believe that he is.

    You really are a lost cause, son.

    ReplyDelete
  45. I get my information from the fact I attended Drexel Law from 2008-2009 before transferring to another school and ultimately deciding to leave law. So, YEAH, that's where I get my info about what the curve is, jackass.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Nando...so much bitterness. You don't have a law job, otherwise you wouldn't be so emotional about this.


    sj anad...you didn't attend Drexel. You purported to "fact-find," implying that you researched the curve. The curve is a 3.00. Furthermore, if you did transfer out of Drexel, it must have been to Cooley because if you were a top student that transferred to a T1 school, you wouldn't have dropped out.

    Or, if you did attend Drexel, you probably lost your scholarship due to being a dumbass. Someone with a scholarship would not complain.

    As I said before, some people will be successful while others will be idiots.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Hum, scholarship students wouldn't complain? How about scholarship, law review, and legal clinic students complaining? Would that be enough for you?

    http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2010/02/22/story3.html?b=1266814800^2907431&t=printable

    Ok ~anonymous~ maybe you should get back to planning for your career in shit law after instead of trolling the scam blogs trying to boost your confidence about attending your toilet school. Maybe you should try checking in with some of my former classmates about their nonexistent job prospects.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Dog shit > Drexel Law SchoolJuly 25, 2010 at 6:00 AM

    Jul 19, 8:02 pm, you got your ass handed to you by these "idiots." How 'bout them apples, eh? Yes, nando does not work in the legal field. (He has mentioned that about 327 times on this blog. So, good 'inference', shithead.)

    Also, he had a full scholarship to attend law school. He has mentioned this many times here, also. And he is not the only such person to point out that law school is a waste. Sjanad also handed your ass to you with the facts. COuld it be that she saw that her job prospects coming out of Drexel with a JD would be weak, and so she wisely decided to cut her losses?

    There is nothing funnier than seeing one defend the indefensible with all their might. It is hilarious. Please keep posting so we can all continue to see you display your stupidity.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Hi, I finished 1L at Temple, hated it, and have plans to transfer to a T20 school. I really enjoy the academic exercise of learning law, which is what motivated my desire to get out of Temple, and also Philadelphia to have less regional prospects.

    In your view, however, is it worth going, or is the legal industry totally "dead"?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Yea. It's highly impressive to get a URM scholarship at Drake, and then to bitch about it.

    ...

    That article speaks about a few top students that couldn't land decent gigs. Those students obviously didn't interview well or had no social skills. What about the lower ranked students who landed in big law? What about myself and others that are currently summering at big firms in Philly and Jersey? Try checking out the placement stats. What about those facts?

    I have no sympathy for the students in that article. There is no excuse for not getting a good job with those top rankings when others below you are landing in big law.

    ...

    Yea, maybe sjanad was worried about her job prospects coming out of Drexel. However, she transferred out to a different school and then dropped out of that school. It's more likely that she was just a bad student. If she was intelligent enough to transfer to a better school, why would she drop out of that school?

    Yes...I have been dominated by the facts. I am no match for you legal scholars without jobs.

    ReplyDelete
  51. mjm, if you are really passionate about law, then go for it. Don't let the doomsayers make decisions for you. If you truly want to practice law, you'll find a way to be successful.

    Or you could always just drop out, and bitch on internet blogs about how law school screwed you.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Since you won't acknowledge facts contrary to your blind rage against law school, here is a list of places where graduates of the inaugural class are employed:

    List of Employers

    Federal Clerkships

    Hon. Robert B. Kugler, Federal District Judge, D. New Jersey
    Hon. Timothy R. Rice, U.S. Magistrate Judge, E.D. Pennsylvania (to begin Sept 2010)
    Hon. Sue L. Robinson, Federal District Judge, D. Del.
    Hon. Joseph H. Rodriguez, Federal District Judge, D. New Jersey
    Hon. Victor J. Wolski, U.S. Court of Federal Claims


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    State Clerkships

    Hon. Robert P. Becker, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Mark I. Bernstein, PA Court of Common Pleas
    Hon. Gwendolyn Blue, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Charles W. Dortch, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Michael Erdos, PA Court of Common Pleas
    Hon. Nan Famular, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Linda Feinberg, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Leo E. Green, Jr., MD Circuit Court (to begin Aug 2010)
    Hon. Richard Hoffman, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Pedro J. Jimenez, Jr., NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Colleen Maier, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Louis R. Meloni, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Frank Palumbo, PA Court of Common Pleas
    Hon. Julie Stevenson Solt, MD Circuit Court
    Hon. Joseph P. Testa, NJ Superior Court
    Hon. Gary D. Wodlinger, NJ Superior Court


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government & Public Interest
    Bucks County District Attorney's Office
    Defender Association of Philadelphia
    Delaware Attorney General's Office
    Delaware County District Attorney's Office
    Lancaster County District Attorney's Office
    Manhattan District Attorney's Office
    Montgomery County District Attorney's Office
    Miami Public Defender's Office
    New York County Defender Services
    North Penn Legal Services
    U.S. Air Force JAG Corps
    U.S. Army JAG Corps
    U.S. Dept of Health & Human Services, Office of Civil Rights


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Law Firms: Large or Mid-Sized
    Archer & Greiner
    Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll
    Blank Rome
    Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney
    Conrad O'Brien Gellman & Rohn
    Dickie McCamey
    Dilworth Paxson
    Duane Morris
    Eckert Seamans Cherin & Mellott
    Lavin, O’Neil, Ricci, Cedrone & DiSipio
    Marshall, Dennehey, Warner, Coleman & Goggin
    Nixon Peabody (Wash. D.C.)
    Pepper Hamilton
    Post & Schell
    Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis
    Wilentz Goldman & Spitzer


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Law Firms: Small to Mid-Sized
    Law Offices of Hal Barrow
    Bazil McNulty
    Borjeson & Maizel
    Ciardi Ciardi & Astin
    Eastburn & Gray
    Fisher & Zucker
    Fraim & Fiorella, PC (Norfolk, VA)
    Fredric Marro & Associates
    Goldberg & Beyer
    Halpern & Levy, PC
    Hopkins & Schafkopf
    Hudson Jones Jaywork & Fisher
    Joseph Reisinger & Associates
    Law Offices of Christopher B. Jones
    Layser and Freiwald
    Klasko Rulon Stock & Seltzer
    Mintzer Sarowitz Zeris Ledva & Meyers
    Muskin & Cusick
    Ratner Prestia
    Rubin Fortunato
    Saltz, Mongeluzzi, Barrett & Bendesky
    Schubert Bellwoar Cahill & Quinn
    Schultz Law
    Shemtob Law
    Siciliano & Associates
    Law Offices of Eric A. Shore
    Wade Goldstein Landau & Abruzzo
    Weitz Garfinkle Datz
    Wilcox Zuk Chovin Law Office (Prince Albert, Canada)
    Yukevich Marchetti Liekar & Zangrilli


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Corporations
    Amerisource Bergen Co.
    Deloitte (Boston, MA)
    Lyondell Chemical Co.
    Magnesita Refractories Company
    Pennsylvania Trust Company
    Rembrandt IP Management
    RGK Entertainment Group, Inc. (Nashville, TN)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Solo Practice
    Andrew W. Cole, P.C.
    Bourland Adler
    Law Office of Michael Lee
    Law Office of Eric Marseglia

    ReplyDelete
  53. To the idiot who posted at 11:34, 11:38 and 11:49,

    Actually rage against law school is well-calculated, accurate and precise.

    How many of those positions are PAID?! Yeah, that didn't quite enter your analysis, did it? Also, how many of those kids at TTTs and TTTTs came from wealthy families, or had STELLAR business ad political connections?! Why didn't you provide the list for Drexel JDs clerking for traffic court judges?

    No wonder you attend - or work for - this sewer of law: you assume that because students and graduates of lower-ranked schools made it into Biglaw, students from higher-ranked law schools should be able to make it in, as well. Your logic skills are weak and truly cannot stand up to us "legal scholars" with NON-LAW jobs. SJ Anad and I are both earning paychecks, idiot. Maybe you should check the facts - or learn how to read - BEFORE spewing forth nonsense.

    Drexel is in the crowded Pennsylvania legal market. Also, take a look at this article:

    http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202463749951

    Regarding the law.com article, THAT is harrowing for those with their hearts set on Biglaw. Apparently, Biglaw 2010 summer hiring is DOWN 44 percent from last year.

    Cravath reports an 81 percent decline, from 123 summer hires firmwide in 2009 to 23 summer hired firmwide in 2010. Pillsbury Winthrop summer hires are down 67 percent, from 51 positions in 2009 to 17 this summer. Skadden has decreased it summer hiring by 65 percent, down from 223 hires in 2009 to 79 hires in 2010.

    Let that sink in for a while, and then come back and try again.

    ReplyDelete
  54. That's not what I was assuming. I was referring specifically to the Drexel students in that article. Some of them were ranked at the top of the class. They're complaining they didn't get jobs; however, many students actually got jobs, and they were not ranked as high as the students who didn't. Hence, they must have had shit personalities.

    Yeah. I know Big Law hiring is down, but if you're a good student who interviews well, you have no one to blame but yourself for not getting a good job.

    I also know that Philly is a crowded market, but that hasn't stopped good students who interview well from getting jobs. Yea, a few may have connections, but that's the nature of the game.

    You accuse Drexel in this article of being a "sewer," and that no one who attends here will find gainful employment. You base this assumption on "facts," just as you conveniently left out the 160 median LSAT this year so you could claim that admissions accepts people with 140s. Yes...you are all about the "facts."

    The only disadvantage of Drexel is its lack of alumni in the Philly market. Otherwise,it's fully comparable with Villanova, Temple, and Rutgers. UPenn, obviously, is on a different level, and most of their graduates head to NYC. But, that hasn't stopped Drexel grads from finding decent jobs.





    I know biglaw hiring is down. No,

    ReplyDelete
  55. http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/231/352/2008-231352630-0511bf72-9.pdf

    This is Drexel University’s IRS 2008 Form 990. Go to page 10, to see the Compensation of the Five Highest Paid Employees Other Than Officers, Directors, and Trustees.

    Roger Dennis, dean of the provisionally accredited piece of trash known to the world as the Earle Macke School of Law, made $308,490 in salary PLUS $32,074 in contributions to employee benefit plans & deferred compensation. That would bring his TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2007 - to $340,564.

    This makes Dennis the THIRD HIGHEST PAID EMPLOYEE of Drexel University, in terms of salary, and fifth highest paid with regards to total compensation. Who says higher education doesn’t pay off, right?! These “educators” are making money hand over fist - even when their graduates are drowning in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt and facing meager employment opportunities.

    http://www.earlemacklaw.drexel.edu/about/ABA_accreditation/

    “The Earle Mack School of Law at Drexel University has been provisionally accredited by the Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar of the American Bar Association, 321 North Clark Street, Chicago, IL 60610.”

    Did I mention earlier that this school is PROVISIONALLY accredited?!

    Lastly, check this NALP report out:

    http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

    The JD Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates - competing for a paltry 28,901 jobs requiring bar passage. You see that trick? That sure as hell does not mean ATTORNEY jobs. Many of these could be doc review openings. On top of that, many of those who did land Biglaw have had their start dates pushed all the way back until well into 2010. To begin with, only 8,026 respondents, i.e. 39.84% of those in private practice, reported being hired by firms with 100+ attorneys.

    http://nalp.org/uploads/09SelectedFindingsPressRelease.pdf

    “For instance, a different survey conducted by NALP found that between 3,200 and 3,700 graduates with jobs in law firms had their start dates deferred beyond December 1, 2009, with many deferred well into 2010.”

    http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/nalp-2010-nalp-executive-director-james-leipold-talks-to-the-lost-generation/

    “But Leipold told us that NALP is also counting deferred students as employed — even though NALP KNOWS that some deferrals will never result in actual employment."

    That is nice of NALP, isn’t it? After all, we wouldn’t want to give people’s hopes up, by providing the true picture of the industry, would we?!

    ReplyDelete
  56. Yes, I transferred out to at T2 school and deferred my acceptance there for a year. Then I decided not to return after accepting a professional position with a major gov't agency. Now you have the ~facts~!

    I am sure Dean Rosado would LOVE to tell you about our exit meeting where I told her my feelings on what a shit-hole Drexel is...if she hadn't jumped ship herself the same year. She did beg me to stay precisely because of how many scholarship students left after 1L - YES, OTHER scholarship students beside myself transferred out that year in spite of NOT losing our scholarships!

    Did they mention that THREE deans left in 2008, the same year I left? And that all 3 left before the first class had even graduated? Oh, they didn't?

    ReplyDelete
  57. PS: Anon, I won't be responding to you any more because I am fairly sure that you are just Doug trolling as a Drexel 0L. So I'll save my time for the real students considering risking their futures at the Earle Mack School of Shit Law.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Sj anad, Yea...they left for jobs that paid them more money. Dean Rosato got the head job at NIU Law, whatever that is. Of course she left.

    You also transferred out before they got provisional accreditation. The school has come a long way since when you were there.

    Also, congratulations on getting a job in the government. I'm sure you are very happy with the decision you made, even though you're whining on an internet blog about law school. Get over it already. Some people just aren't cut out for hard work.

    Yes, Nando...Drexel is currently provisionally accredited, and there's no doubt that it will be fully accredited within the next two years. That doesn't support any point that you are trying to make.

    As far as Dean Dennis' salary, the guy has experience taking schools through accreditation. He's a smart guy. I wouldn't want some low-life willing to make $50,000 a year heading the school. You pay for talent.

    Most of us are on scholarship anyway...

    ReplyDelete
  59. Nando, I also love how you resort to name-calling. It's really effective...and professional.

    You are also very emotional, like a woman. No man I know would complain or whine about a profession in which they weren't even involved.

    However, in a way, I think what you're doing is good. Hopefully, you'll save people who actually enjoy the law from having to listen to people complain about their decision to attend law school like you do.

    ReplyDelete
  60. http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/2010/07/joan-wexler-of-crooklyn-law-school.html

    I have the balls to call out and expose these fraudulent "institutions of higher learning." I suppose that makes you jealous. What have you done with your life, other than suck up to those in power?

    Read the blog a little more in-depth. I only took on another $37K in student debt for my three years of law school. I was smart enough to take advantage of Drake's full-tuition Law Opportunity Scholarship. Plus, I was not under the (constant) stress of maintaining a high GPA.

    This blog is not about me - it is about informing prospective law students about the HUGE FINANCIAL RISK they are taking on, by going to law school. Apparently, YOU have a problem with consumers receiving more information. Should they rely solely on the profit centers, i.e. law schools? Because the schools are so honest, and have nothing to gain by fudging the numbers, right?!?!

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/09/04/north-dakota-law-tops-harvard-in-us-news-ranking/

    I rely on the facts to make my case. When someone has PROVEN themselves to be impervious to reason and to the facts, my willingness to treat them with respect dissipates. That is the case with you, Drexel troll.

    You keep stating that the school will receive full accreditation. I have already noted that. Wow! What a great accomplishment, as ONLY 200 U.S. law schools have attained this credential - including quite a few independent law schools that are not tied to any college or university.

    In all seriousness, if YOU are a faculty member of this piece of trash law school, contact me at nando9936@yahoo.com. We can then set up a panel on the state of American "legal education" and discuss the shrinking U.S. lawyer job market. Surely, you are not afraid to have the Earle Macke Sewer of Law host such an event, are you? (This may not be in tune with typical academic, i.e. pointless, panels, where blowhard "professors" discuss treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo, or the extent of the First Amendment, but it should be productive, informative and entertaining.)

    Grow a pair and let's set up this panel.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Yes. It takes a lot of balls to post on an internet blog... I guess it gives your life some meaning since you have nothing else for which to live.

    In regards to accreditation, if it's not a big deal that it will be accredited, why did you make it a big deal that it's currently provisionally accredited? It doesn't have any bearing on any argument you are trying to make...

    Also, your original post on Drexel didn't contain any facts, just opinion. As you keep ignoring, your original post lacked the fact the median LSAT was 160. Instead, you did your nice little "READ" quote and stated that Drexel accepts people with 145's. That's very convenient.

    You also listed Drexel as "TTTTT" in the USNWR rankings list you compiled, but left out the fact that Drexel hasn't even been ranked yet because of its accreditation status.

    Furthermore, you conveniently left out Drexel's placement stats, like the list I provided.

    You opt for snide remarks instead of the facts. You claim you're all for transparency, but your postings are very deceiving.

    If you claim to be a white horse, then act like a gentleman. You'd swear you were molested as a child by all of these law school administrators by the way you carry on.

    Grow a pair? You're the one who couldn't find a legal job. You got a nice scholarship but let yourself get beat down by the market instead of fighting it out. Instead, you vent your frustration on the internet. You should channel that energy into something productive.

    ...and I'm not a professor. Even if I was, why would I waste my time with some URM scholarship kid from Drake who is not even involved in the legal profession.

    We don't need a panel on the legal market, everyone already knows of its dismal state. It's common sense...if you're a good student with a good personality you'll get a job no matter the state of the market. Kids not getting jobs out of law school and those getting fired from law firms aren't hired/fired for no reason. Even though these people may think they are God's gift to the world, and that they are entitled to a job, that mustn't be the case.

    ReplyDelete
  62. {Yawn.} Are you two still debating this dump??? nando, chill out. Drexel Law School is a filthy, greasy, pathetic, lousy, disgusting piece of shit. You have proven tht umpteen times already. Move on. If the Drexel retard is convinced the school will be in the 60-70 range (which would still make it an overpriced, piece of shit), let him believe that. Don't tell him that Santa is fake, either.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Where has he proven that?

    The only concrete things he came up with were stats on the general legal market, and an article highlighting a few socially retarded kids from Drexel who couldn't get jobs despite their high class rankings (when others ranked lower in the class actually got decent jobs).

    Oh yea, and he had the support of his tag team partner, sjanad, who despite being brilliant, dropped out of law school after transferring into a T2...

    It's a bad case if you ask me. That's why he's a blogger and not a lawyer.

    Case dismissed. (yawn)

    ReplyDelete
  64. LOL look at anon using his lawyer jargon! His mommy and Dean Dennis must be so proud :)

    ReplyDelete
  65. Don't be jealous, sweetheart.

    ReplyDelete
  66. TTTTT kid,

    I point out the fact that the school is currently provisionally-accredited, because that is the case. It also suggests that you were not smart enough to get accepted into an established, FULLY ACCREDITED, law school. Your writing style and lack of basic comprehension skills confirm this. There are about 200 such law schools out there. Were you not able to gain admission to a real law school?

    You also do not seem to understand that lower-ranked kids often come from relatively privileged backgrounds. Their parents are paying for much of their education, and so they have the luxury of not working their ass off. They can be active in student organizations, hang out at bars, and attend tons of sporting events. These kids are in law school, because they need to have the credential to sit for the bar. They often have something lined up, whether it is a job at their daddy’s firm – or a job that daddy is his spending political capital on, i.e. calling in a huge favor.

    “...and I'm not a professor. Even if I was, why would I waste my time with some URM scholarship kid from Drake who is not even involved in the legal profession.”

    I am only interested in debating “legal scholars” or law school administrators, i.e. people who can presumably hold their own, in such a discussion. Seeing that you are an emotional law student at a festering toilet, this would exclude you from consideration. After all, why would I be interested in debating a TTTTT kid from Drexel who cannot even put a question mark on the end of a sentence?

    “We don't need a panel on the legal market, everyone already knows of its dismal state. It's common sense...if you're a good student with a good personality you'll get a job no matter the state of the market.”

    This is a BLATANT falsehood. I know SEVERAL classmates who were not able to crack the legal market, despite doing the following: (a) having stellar or strong grades; (b) journal experience, (c) getting their law review articles published; (d) going to mixers and socials; (e) clerking for judges during law school; (f) being active in several student organizations; etc.

    The outgoing SBA president at Drake - for the Class of 2010 – did not have employment lined up at graduation. What does that tell you, kid?

    http://www.theconglomerate.org/2010/04/the-death-of-big-law-and-the-future-of-legal-education.html

    There are Ivy League JDs who are getting no-offered - or deferred for well over a year – from Biglaw. Are you going to tell me that they didn’t work hard enough?

    http://abovethelaw.com/2010/06/we-knew-this-was-going-to-happen-michigan-encourages-law-grads-to-go-to-india/

    Hell, the University of Michigan is posting job offers in India, for its JDs.

    What could possibly explain this situation?! The ABA continues to accredit MORE toilets of law – such as the Earl Macke School of Law at Drexel University – when there is NO matching need/demand for more attorneys. And American law schools continue to pump out WAY TOO MANY JDs for the available number of lawyer positions.

    Also, I took a full-time, non-legal position so that I could pay my bills and put food in my fridge. That is what RESPONSIBLE adults do, son. Perhaps you have the luxury of living under your parents’ roof. (If so, tell your mom “Thanks” for doing your laundry.)

    ReplyDelete
  67. Yea. I got dinged from Drake and Cooley so I had to go to Drexel.

    Again, the median LSAT is 160. Why pay money to go to Villanova or Temple when you could go to Drexel for free and still find employment as a good student.

    The fact that the outgoing SBA pres. at Drake had no job lined up tells me nothing. SBA doesn't mean shit. Are there even any law firms in Iowa?

    What about the fact that I go to lowly Drexel but still got a SA gig? What does that tell you, kid?

    Everyone likes to blame the market, but in reality, if it was the market, no law student or law grad would have a good law job. Are you suggesting that all law students/grads are created equally? You could do law review all day, but that doesn't mean anything if you have the personality of a wet sponge.

    Why would I do my own laundry when I could pay kids like you to do it for me?

    ReplyDelete
  68. TTTTT Boy,

    I deleted the last comment because it was way off base. I can't control what others say on here, other than to delete comments. If you want to know, the vulgar commenter either posted from Chicago or Baltimore. Should I publish both IP addresses, for your benefit, so that we can punish the one guilty party? Try to get your facts straight.

    I like to insult the idiot, not his parents. Plus, I have already beaten you down with the facts. For instance, the comment that I made about your mom doing your laundry was not an insult directed at her. (By the way, your sour personality - combined with the fact that you have hours to spend on this old blog entry - indicates that you are not working for a law firm.)

    To the person posting foul comments - even the ones directed at trolls - don't bother commenting on here. I have written down both IP addresses, so if you come back here with your lewd comments, I will publish your address. A while back, some "supporter" called a troll an ugly racial slur, and he has had the sense not to come back here and comment - after I told him I would publish his IP address, if he ever did that again. Hopefully, you have the same sense.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I want to work in Philly, and I'm deciding between Villanova at sticker and Drexel @7k a year. I'm living at home either way, and I can stay at home to pay off loans at an accelerated rate (90%+ of my paycheck going into loans as long as necessary, estimating 4-5 years to pay down Nova). Do you think I should take Villanova @ 37 or Drexel at 7k? I'm going to one either way, just interested in some other opinions. Villanova was a T1 just a few years ago, and has a strong presence in the city. Drexel is cheap, but has literally no presence. Thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  70. Nando...it's all in good fun. I wasn't offended by the post. I was just being a smartass. Yes...I'm a student, the SA program where I worked is over for the summer.

    While I understand the premise of this blog, the bias in this post irked me. You skewed the admission stats and made it sound like there were no job prospects. As I indicated, that's not the case at all. I saw that you also trashed Temple, which is highly revered in Philly. After reading more of your posts though, I realize that you are just using shock tactics to make people think twice before flushing money down the drain. It is what it is.

    To Anonymous at 9:17 pm:
    It depends on what you want to do. If you don't really care where you practice, go to Drexel and save your money.

    If you want BigLaw, you'll likely have a better shot at Villanova. Like you said, it has a strong alumni base.

    That's not to say you wouldn't be able to get BigLaw from Drexel, but you're going to have to keep your grades up. You'll need good grades at Villanova as well, but unless you have an outstanding personality or have good internships on your resume, a Villanova partner will hire the Villanova alum over you even if you have the same class rank.

    It's a tricky situation though because you're not guaranteed BigLaw at Villanova, and if you don't get BigLaw, you're stuck with a shitload of debt. On the other hand, you could do well at Drexel and land a BigLaw job with a very smell debtload.

    Personally, I took the money at Drexel, and I don't regret it. I got good grades 1L year and was able to work out an offer for 2L summer in BigLaw.

    I know some others would choose Villanova over Drexel though in your situation.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Anon@9:17 -

    I was in a similar situation. I took the money and ended up miserable. I really wanted the other school but picked Drexel because I'd have no debt. Hated it! Think about where you really want to go to school and how much you care about the doors that will be closed because of the Drexel name.

    In my class, there were some students who were complete disasters. That really bothered me - you could really tell who could not get into any other Philly area schools, and the classes were taught to the lowest common denominator. That frustrated and bored me.

    Finally, DU tuition has gone up between 4-6% a year since it opened. The scholarship does not go up if tuition goes up. There is also some competeing data about how many students lost their scholarships (see comments above).

    ReplyDelete
  72. whoops, forgot to mention that in literally every 1L interview I went on (6), the interviewer mentioned that Drexel was new, unranked, and a risk to have picked for law school. I hated having to lie though my teeth to them and say I liked a challenge, the profs and co-op were just as good, blah blah blah. Pure lies - it depressed me.

    ReplyDelete
  73. sjanad... thank you for the information. The interview bit is all I needed to hear, Villanova it is.

    By the way, SA hiring is starting to swing up a bit, so there's some good news out there. http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2010/07/summer2011.html

    ReplyDelete
  74. I mean I think the other thing going on behind the curtains ( for any degree really) is that many people who graduate and land amazing jobs is that their family or family friends have serious connections (big lawn firm, CEO, governor etc) Now am I jealous... well of course! But this is a fact of life. Yes.

    So, unless you are sure you have an "in" i would approach an expensive degree with caution.

    ReplyDelete
  75. I have to wonder what the rules are for admitting CRIMINAL SCUM AT DREXEL.
    For example, one Mr. Chris Gersie who vandalised and historic Jewish cemetary in Charleston, SC last May.

    ReplyDelete
  76. haha, wonder how he worked that into his application!

    ReplyDelete
  77. If you are going to law school thinking the yellow brick road is waiting for you upon graduation, you better be going to T1 and top 10% and/or be connected. If you are entrepruneurial and resourceful, you can turn a T4 or T5 education into a great career. Know who you are and where you are taking your skills, that's the trick. The disconnect here it most of these posters expect the career to be handed to them in a crisp envelope along with the diploma. That's not the way it works for most people, and for those that are put on that road..they risk bad things happening 3-5 years down the road they can't manage.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Law is a business and like any business requires either the advantages of scale or the brashness entrepreneurial zeal. Success is difficult (maybe impossible) without one or the other and is all bur assured with both.

    Now, go back to the first sentence in the previous paragraph and replace "law" with
    "engineering," or "medicine" or anything you'd like. That's life kids, get on with it.

    ReplyDelete
  79. about 4k tuition for 3 years + starting salary well over 100k = womp womp womp

    ReplyDelete
  80. To the gloating bitch at 9:12 pm,

    How well are the rest of your classmates doing, Ass-Clown?! That will provide a better insight into how strong this commode is. The reality is most of your classmates will be flushed out into a period of unemployment, upon graduation.

    Remember, law firms and government agencies care very much about reputation. Drexel is (correctly) perceived to be a bottom-feeder diploma mill. Keep ignoring the reality of the situation, dumbass. Willful ignorance is the hallmark of a moron.

    The U.S. lawyer market is grossly over-saturated. (Maybe you have heard about this situation?!) Legal employers will still look at "prestige" first. Drexel simply added a law school so that the university could have a cash cow. The commode does not give one damn what happens to its students, upon graduation. They are focused on recruiting the next round of suckers.

    As such, many Drexel TTTTT grads will be scrambling for non-legal jobs. This will be quite a hurdle for these graduates to overcome. First, the school is a joke – and even non-law employers will figure that out. Second, these employers will be suspicious of a lawyer or JD who does not want to practice law. Third, non-law employers see attorneys as combative masters of red tape.

    http://thepeoplestherapist.com/2010/11/03/extremely-versatile-crockery/

    Former Biglaw associate and current psychotherapist Will Meyerhofer lists some of the reasons why a law degree is NOT versatile:

    "But there’s a bigger, broader problem with switching careers when you have the letters JD after your name: people hate lawyers.

    Why do they hate lawyers? A bunch of reasons.

    If you are a real person in the outside world, the word “lawyer” means obstruction. The phrase “run it past Legal” means you might as well give up, ’cause it’s never gonna happen. Exciting business ventures ooze to a standstill like a sabre-toothed tiger in the La Brea Tar Pits. Some risk-adverse dweeb in a suit will spout dire warnings to you about unlikely contingencies until nothing seems like it’s any fun anymore.

    Lawyer means pretentious – socially awkward losers with fancy degrees telling you what to do when they’ve never run a business in their lives.

    Lawyer means threats. “You’ll hear from my lawyer” is the worst thing you can say to another person. And lawyers love to write threatening letters – it’s what they do best. That’s why lawyer is synonymous with wasted time and wasted money.

    Lawyer means annoyance. Lawyer means hassles. Lawyer means a total void of common sense. Lawyer means expensive, with little to show for it.”

    ReplyDelete
  81. how well are the rest of my classmates doing? i don't know. ok i guess? i know some have jobs as good as mine. i know most have relatively small law school debt. i know most enjoy the school. but it's a good thing i didn't go to law school to make sure my law school friends would have opportunities to get good jobs. i went to law school to make sure i had a good opportunity to get a job. as such, i acted accordingly to reach that end, and that end has been reached.

    "Don’t flush your future away on this “investment.” Wash your hands of this decision. Remember, the banks will still be profitable without you going six-figures in the hole."

    if the gloating bitch took your advice, the gloating bitch would have nothing to gloat about. good thing he didn't!

    sincerely,

    the gloating bitch at 9:12 (at 11:57)

    gloat gloat gloat (womp womp womp)

    ReplyDelete
  82. to the above post, this is no place for rational discourse.

    ReplyDelete
  83. To anonymous at 10:34 a.m.

    My apologies for attempting to speak rationally and intelligently.

    ReplyDelete
  84. How is it going, moron? How is the weather in Philadelphia today?

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=129.25.13.136

    I see that you are viewing this blog from the campus of Drexel University. By the way, who removed that video of the cheesy salesman, shilling for the Earle Mack Sewer of Law?! That might have put this commode in the fourth tier.

    Time Visitor Session
    Dec 6 2010 11:33am 129.25.133.136 4 actions 49m 3s
    Dec 6 2010 10:31am 129.25.133.136 6 actions 41m 59s

    You must be incredibly busy, if you have 91 minutes and 2 seconds to spend on this site over the span of 111 minutes.

    Your knee-jerk comments will not change the fact that this school is piece of trash, of ill repute. At least this school’s grads have an emergency toilet paper source, i.e. their law degree.

    "[T]his is no place for rational discourse."

    This is a place for cold, hard reality. (Can you handle that?!) I have stated my case, and lucidly laid out the facts. Unlike the law schools, I do not have a financial stake in this mess. After more than fiteen months, the law school apologist cockroaches have yet to show that law school is a wise investment. What does that tell you?!?!

    Law professors have even acknowledged that there is a gross oversupply of attorneys; some have supported the premise of this blog.

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1640090

    http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/07/29/best-of-the-blogs-4/

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060_print.html

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2009/06/the-end-of-an-era-the-bi-modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SSRN-id1497044.pdf

    http://www.theconglomerate.org/2009/11/incredible-shrinking-law-school.html

    ReplyDelete
  85. im obviously not very busy man. have you met many busy law students? it's not rocket science, it's legal studies. i only went to law school because i knew i could get a fat paying job after a little three year vacation.

    it's kind of unfortunate how you are trying to make these arguments. i opened this blog and saw your mission statement and thought, wow, this makes sense. i mostly agree with you that people shouldn't go to law school under the impression that they are taking the yellow brick road to fat paychecks. i also agree that employment stats shouldn't be misrepresented by law schools.

    attacking drexel specifically though, doesn't make sense. i'm curious if you are a past student at this law school. i have talked with a great deal of attorneys in the philadelphia area and to attorneys at some of the major biglaw NYC firms.

    every single attorney (and there have been many) in the philly/nj/delaware area that i spoke to was enthusiastic about the school and said they had heard many good things and were excited to work with them. the vast majority of the attorneys at the biglaw NYC firms had no idea that drexel law was a new school. certainly they had not formed any opinions of it yet. nor did they go on crazy rants about extra toilet paper or whatever exactly you are saying.

    i see you are posting lots of sources for your argument. at the rate i (and others) value my time, i can't afford to look at all of them. do you have any objective sources, other than yourself, about the experience that drexel offers? i have a hard time seeing how you can judge it without having experienced it. if you reply with a handful of kids who have dropped out and gave bad reviews, i hope you have more than that to rely on. i could guarantee you that for every person who tell you they had a bad experience at the school, i could produce ten who say the opposite. besides, name any law school and i'll find a handful of people who have terrible things to say about that school. that applies to any school, not just drexel my friend.

    anyway, i just want to say that on a very broad level i agree with the "goals" you state at the top of the site. i noticed that you said attorneys and professors agree with "the premise" of this blog. the premise is certainly easy to agree to. i suspect, however, less would agree with the childish way you conduct yourself in trying to put across your message.

    sure, no one should be so naive as to go to law school expecting a handout. sure, no one should misrepresent the facts about employment either. but you don't seem to be addressing that argument so much as you are attacking drexel on the basis that people aren't getting jobs. but i thought the idea is that students should realize they need to work hard to get those jobs. following the logic of your arguments is pretty difficult for me personally. but i am just a lowly drexel law student, waiting to get his toilet paper degree.

    keep up the good work, the personal attacks at one specific law school as opposed to the system, and please, please keep up the reasonable approach (e.g. "apologist cockroaches" and "gloating bitch").


    with love, and many womp womp womps,

    the gloating bitch at 9:12

    ReplyDelete
  86. If you cannot be bothered to read those numerous, legitimate sources I have posted, then what makes you think that you will be an effective attorney? Do you plan on accepting your clients, at their word?

    “if you reply with a handful of kids who have dropped out and gave bad reviews, i hope you have more than that to rely on. i could guarantee you that for every person who tell you they had a bad experience at the school, i could produce ten who say the opposite.”

    You have seen SJ Anad plus several articles and online boards featuring disillusioned former Drexel students. So, now it is your turn to produce dozens of Drexel Law students who are thrilled with their decision to attend such a dump. I have backed up my argument with the facts. You have provided your opinion – and nothing else.

    Also, earlier you implied that you were making $100K. Now, you claim to be a “lowly Drexel student.” Which is it? If you are a law student, shouldn’t you be preoccupied with studying for finals?

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=24.127.182.221

    How is life in Jenkintown, PA?

    Look at your activity over the last 20 hours, loser.

    Time Visitor Session
    Dec 6 2010 2:33pm 24.127.182.221 5 actions 29m 5s
    Dec 6 2010 2:12pm 24.127.182.221 1 action 10m 20s
    Dec 6 2010 8:42am 24.127.182.221 11 actions 58m 16s
    Dec 5 2010 11:49pm 24.127.182.221 3 actions 24m 38s
    Dec 5 2010 11:20pm 24.127.182.221 1 action 10m 20s
    Dec 5 2010 9:12pm 24.127.182.221 5 actions 46m 4s
    Dec 5 2010 8:46pm 24.127.182.221 1 action 10m 20s

    Since last night, you have spent a total of 189 minutes and 3 seconds on this site – for a post back on January 3, 2010. Guess what? The Earle Mack School of Law is still a waste of space. We can see that you are responsible for the comments at Dec 5, 9:12 pm and today at 2:34 pm.

    Time Visitor Session
    Dec 6 2010 12:57pm 129.25.133.136 2 actions 27m 46s
    Dec 6 2010 11:33am 129.25.133.136 4 actions 49m 3s
    Dec 6 2010 10:31am 129.25.133.136 6 actions 41m 59s

    From Drexel University, under IP 129.25.133.136, you spent an additional 118 minutes and 48 seconds on this blog.

    Wow! You must be on your way to $165K a year, kid! You spent just short of 3.5 hours on this site, and racked up 39 actions in the last 20+ hours. Get some rest. Ask out a co-ed. Go to a movie. Get a life. Study for your TTTTT finals.

    ReplyDelete
  87. i am very impressed by your ability to read ip addresses. your parents must be proud of that.

    i'm not sure what your status is, in terms of law school grad or dropout. i can assume that you didn't do so well in the job market if you have this blog. i can also assume that your GPA wasn't that great (or you have terrible social/interviewing skills). so i guess you've never kept multiple browser windows open for extended periods of time on a computer when you are say, studying for finals? studying is correlated to GPA last i heard. maybe if you spent more time studying and starting at your books and computer you wouldn't have had such an awful law school experience.

    also, starting salary != currently paid salary. but i wouldn't expect someone who didn't do too well in law school to be able to make subtle distinctions in language.

    gonna sign off permanently, i hope you are successful in your goal of warning prospective law students about the possible risks and rewards of attending law school, but i fear your personal bias will subvert any attempts at limiting your arguments within the bounds of reason.

    for any prospective drexel students out there - take a trip to drexel, call the admissions office for a tour, speak to students - especially ones you find walking around that are not part of some scheduled tour.

    their input will not only be 1000x more helpful than this blog, but it will be based on people's experiences at drexel as opposed to some blogger's lack of personal experience and the word of a handful of law school dropouts.

    fernando, i hope one day you overcome your bitterness, or at least funnel that energy into something productive.

    -the gloating bitch at 9:12

    ReplyDelete
  88. Why is it that most of the people who challenge this blog, or defend these schools, are the current students.

    The ones that don't have a clue as to what is in store for them?

    And the key administrators and faculty remain silent. From January to December.

    Oh well, the kid, like the others, is optimistic at least. I was that way once too, before the student loans destroyed my life.

    The Beach Boys had an old song:
    "Be True To Your School"

    ReplyDelete
  89. The Drexel law student from Jenkintown, PA checks in again.

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=24.127.182.221

    Dec 6 2010 10:20pm 24.127.182.221 4 actions 14m 54s

    Adding this 14 minute and 54 second session to his activity, we can see that this idiot – in less than 26 hours – spent 322 minutes and 45 seconds on this site. That means this TTTTT law student spent 5 hours, 22 minutes and 45 seconds on this site!! Yes, well more than FIVE HOURS on this site – during finals! The fact that you made 43 actions undermines your claim that you left this browser on while studying for finals. (In my earlier calculation, I added 89 to 118, instead of 189 to 118. I guess I was surprised that a troll would have this much time to spend on this site – in the midst of finals, no less.)

    You don’t know how to capitalize or use proper grammar. You also cannot back up your claims with ANY facts. Your mother must be very proud of you.

    I would sign off too, after the thorough beatdown you took. Go lick your wounds and study for your TTTTT finals. All you provided was your little opinion, flavored with supposition. You did not provide one iota of proof as to why Drexel Law is a good option. When challenged to produce 10 happy students for every negative Drexel student – as YOU said you could do – YOU FAILED to produce one single person. Good job!

    In the final analysis, the immature, semi-literate gloating bitch wants you to talk to Drexel’s salespeople, to gain a “better understanding” of this TTTTT institution. Apparently, he doesn’t want you to look at the school critically.

    http://www.earlemacklaw.drexel.edu/law/tuition-and-refund-policy.asp

    As you can see, this festering, sweltering toilet charged $32,200 in tuition, plus $721 in fees for the 2009-2010 academic year.

    LAW IS ABOUT PRESTIGE. I suppose this has something to do with the fact that law school teaches one how to be a law student. Medical schools and dental schools teach their students to be doctors and dentists. The last two years of these programs are clinic-based. They are not learning “how to think like a doctor or a dentist.”

    And the fact remains that most legal employers will laugh at someone with a Drexel JD. Most non-law employers have not heard of this law school. These resumes and cover letters will be tossed into the nearest trash can. If you are applying to non-law jobs – and you are lucky enough to land an interview – do not be surprised or offended if you are asked whether this piece of trash law school is accredited.

    The Drexel law student above has displayed his patent ignorance on the state of the legal “profession.” He has been exposed as a shill. Good luck on your finals, Moron.

    ReplyDelete
  90. I am a 2L at Drexel Law.

    There are plenty of smaller-sized private-sector firms out in the suburbs that are swamped with work and could use some recent law grads. Attorneys out here have nothing but good things to say about Drexel Law.

    I had no problem at all in finding a well-paying clerkship for the summer after my 1L year (with a modest GPA of about 3.0). In fact, that firm just hired two new young associates. Center City Philly may not have a lot of opportunities, but you just gotta branch out...

    ReplyDelete
  91. @ 9:50

    Are you taking out Student Loans?

    If so, how much so far, and how much will you owe when you graduate?

    Philly is a dump by and large, and with a crumbling infrastructure. Not the place it used to be so many years ago.

    Take it from someone from NY. The place is just somewhere to pass through or better yet, around on the highway.

    Take I-95 in a 360 around the city while avoiding all the potholes, and you will see what I mean.

    Oh God! you sound like such a naieve kid.

    ReplyDelete
  92. The only way to succeed in law school and its unique Socratic method of teaching is to experience it – to invest countless hours with professors in a classroom environment.

    considering law school

    ReplyDelete
  93. and, for the record, Drexel remains unranked by US News for 2012.

    ReplyDelete
  94. It's out of the school's control. US News won't rank a new school that isn't fully accredited. Drexel gets its accreditation this year. It will likely be ranked for 2013.

    ReplyDelete
  95. I'm a graduate of Temple Law some years ago and I have a family member who just graduated from Drexel Law. For the July 2010 exam, Drexel had one of the better pass rates of the PA schools (below Penn and just below Temple.) Most of the 2010 class is employed in legal jobs, my family member included!

    And let's not forget the ranking scandals that were reported about Villanova law recently!

    ReplyDelete
  96. April 19, 2011 6:07 am,

    You might want to provide some actual proof next time. Otherwise, it will be seen as pure anecdotal nonsense. Imagine if the court systems operated this way, dumbass, i.e. "Judge, my client does not have any alibi witnesses, but he has assured me that he was nowhere near the scene of the incident on the night in question."

    Would anyone believe such a bullcrap story, without verification? Maybe that works for TTemple Law grads.

    Also, keep in mind that bar passage does not equal legal employment. Plenty of licensed attorneys are working in non-legal jobs - because the schools are producing FAR TOO MANY graduates for the available number of attorney positions.

    ReplyDelete
  97. http://www.pabarexam.org/pdf/statistics/july/j2010.pdf

    Did you even LOOK at the results? Drexel is SIXTH!!!! Behind shit tier Duquesne, not to mention behind Villanova, Pitt, Penn, and nearly TEN PERCENTAGE POINTS behind Temple. Give me a fucking break.

    ReplyDelete
  98. You are laughable if you think that Drexel Law is third tier - get ready for its rankings. How does a 160 LSAT median get third tier? It doesn't.

    ReplyDelete
  99. @ May 16, 2011 9:00 pm,

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+8

    Hello, mental deficient. This filthy toilet is currently "unranked" by US "News" & World Report. The rag shows that the 25th percentile LSAT score - at this toilet - was 156, while the 75th percentile score was 162.

    We'll see how those entering numbers are affected when the dung pile no longer rewards entire incoming classes with partial scholarships, ass-clown. By the way, does it really matter IF this commode cracks into the vaunted top 100 law schools?! Is this going to make up for the fact that the school has a tiny alumni base, bitch?!?!

    Will this somehow cause legal employers to overlook JDs from stronger, established law schools in the area, Dumbass?! I am sorry that your parents feed you paint chips, as a child. However, you can at least try to attain a modicum of common sense.

    ReplyDelete
  100. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  101. You obviously do not know what the hell you are talking about, mentally impaired ass-clown. The legal field is about: (a) where one attended law school; (b) class rank; and (c) one's business, political and family connections. You are only pretending to be this dense, correct?!

    ReplyDelete
  102. Nando, I have read your blog for about two weeks now and do not plan to visit again. I thought that before I permanently remove myself from the negativity you thrive on, I would put forth my conclusion that it is highly doubtful you are successful, and furthermore, highly doubtful you would have succeeded at any law school. Underachieving losers like you go on blogs to seek attention, others go on blogs to gain knowledge from disparate factions of thought.

    ReplyDelete
  103. "Underachieving losers like you go on blogs to seek attention, others go on blogs to gain knowledge from disparate factions of thought.

    May 24, 2011 9:48 AM "

    9:48, what dog do you have in this fight? What I am saying is, why do you CARE whether this or any other scamblogger posts opinions about this, that, or any other law school, be it a non-elite toilet bowl, or even a better school?

    Should you not be ultimately confident in the wisdom and efficacy of your own choices, such that you could never even be bothered to post here at all? Instead, the fact you protest so much, and so vehemently, indicates that you yourself possess some unsureness, some uneasiness, with your own choices.

    In fact, you resent that anyone remind you of your own questionable choices, and thereby violate your comfort zone. Is it not in fact a social GOOD that this or perhaps another scamblog prevents some kid, lacking a full grasp of what law school entails, from going into non-dischargeable six-figure debt? What, in fact, is specifically wrong with the scambloggers preventing kids who are "defaulting" into law school, i.e., trying to "fix" a useless BA by getting a law degree, and who in fact don't really want to be lawyers...what, specifically, is wrong with the scambloggers preventing that?

    There's a lot of kids still doing that, and it is a mistake, especially at today's prices. Plus, it is quite possible that the scambloggers are in fact helping eliminate YOUR future competition for legal clients. Why would you be against that, if you are rational?

    Also, running around and calling other people "losers" hardly speks for your own maturity and self-confidence, to say the very least.

    Good luck with all that.

    ReplyDelete
  104. I'm currently in the military and am seriously considering law school. Understanding the depth of experience from the posters of this blog, I am curious what you would do in my situation?

    I will graduate from a lower T2 with no more than 10k in debt (including living expenses) because of my military background and language skills I am interested in working for the government. For people who may not need a t14 school or BigLaw, and will not graduate with serious debt, what advice to you give us?

    ReplyDelete
  105. I'm currently in the military and am seriously considering law school. Understanding the depth of experience from the posters of this blog, I am curious what you would do in my situation?

    I will graduate from a lower T2 with no more than 10k in debt (including living expenses) because of my military background and language skills I am interested in working for the government. For people who may not need a t14 school or BigLaw, and will not graduate with serious debt, what advice to you give us?

    ReplyDelete
  106. I'm currently in the military and am seriously considering law school. Understanding the depth of experience from the posters of this blog, I am curious what you would do in my situation?

    I will graduate from a lower T2 with no more than 10k in debt (including living expenses) because of my military background and language skills I am interested in working for the government. For people who may not need a t14 school or BigLaw, and will not graduate with serious debt, what advice to you give us?

    ReplyDelete
  107. John, go to the best school that you can go to -- even if the GIBill won't cover it. Even federal jobs know the difference between a top 10 school and a tier 3. Sure, some people get into federal gigs with less than stellar law school diplomas, but they either did very well or have some other experience that make them qualified. Do not think that you are an exception -- even with mil experience -- because fed jobs are hard to land...period. Do yourself a favor and go to the best school, or don't go at all.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Nando I would destroy you in a court of law. You just seem naïve.

    ReplyDelete
  109. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  110. To the piece of trash who posted on August 7, 2011 at 7:35 am and 7:46 am,

    I would destroy you in a street fight. That is if YOU had the balls to meet me, cockroach. You come across as a snarky, pencil neck bitch. I suppose that you would send your boyfriend to do the fighting for you, pussy.

    ReplyDelete
  111. John, get an MBA and work for the gov't. If you get into a t14 law school, then okay, fine...go to law school. Just warning you...don't trick yourself into going to a TTT law school. It is 8 TF UP.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Er, so Drexel ended up ranked 77. Not third tier. Top tier!

    ReplyDelete
  113. To the worthless pile of garbage who posted on December 5, 2011 1:54 pm,

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+8

    The school is listed as "Unranked" by US "News" & World Report, bitch. This means that it is not even in the fourth tier, cockroach. Notice how the “Unranked” law schools are listed on the last page of the 2012 USN&WR rankings. Those schools are listed alphabetically, which is also the case for the fourth tier trash pits, i.e. “Rank Not Published” schools.

    Do...you...understand...that?!?! Or do I need to write this on a whiteboard - and then shove it up your pathetic ass, bitch?!

    By the way, retard: a rank of 77th would be SECOND TIER, not first tier. The top 50 law schools would fall into the latter category, dung beetle. I realize that Pussy Robert Morse decided to rank schools 101-143, and tried to label every school with an assigned number as "first tier."

    However, the bastard does not have a trademark on the phrase "third tier." Hence, he cannot get rid of the third or fourth tier by edict. In the end, he is simply a geek - with a small penis - who is trying to sell magazine subscriptions.

    Then again, this discussion is moot, since the Drexel University Earle Mack Sewer of Law is NOWHERE NEAR THE SECOND TIER, moron!! I recognize that your IQ may be 77 – and that is being polite – but where in the hell did you determine that the school is ranked 77th?!?!

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+4

    As you can see, there are two schools that are rated 77th, by US “News” – for 2012. Those diploma mills are the University of Denver Sturm College of Law and the University of Miami School of Law. If you want any respect or one iota of credibility, then you need to get your facts straight, and quit being a lying piece of trash.

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  114. So much hate. Someone's upset he didn't get a legal job :\

    BTW - Drexel hasn't been eligible for ranking yet. It will be next year. Maybe instead of insulting people you could check your facts =)

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  115. To the cretin above:

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=144.160.226.53

    How are you doing in Bedminster, NJ? Drexel is unranked by US "News" & World Report. That is a FACT, bitch. You can defend this garbage institution, if you want - but don't cry if others simply do not share your foolish sentiments.

    Visitor detail
    IP address: 144.160.226.53
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    Unique ID: 97215036592592086
    First visit: Fri Dec 9 2011 5:21am
    Visits: 3
    Language: English
    Location: USA
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    Visits by this user in the last 7 days

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Dec 9 2011 6:09am 144.160.226.53 3 actions 56s lawschoolsewagepitprofiles.wordpres.com/
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    Dec 9 2011 5:21am 144.160.226.53 1 action 10s

    Look at the idiotic comments, on this thread, from water-heads claiming that Drexel will be ranked “in the 70 to 80 range,” i.e. July 4, 2010 8:41 pm. On December 5, 2011, at 1:54 pm, some ass-clown – perhaps your mother – asserted that Drexel is ranked 77th. Again, for the mentally deficient: the festering trash pit is CLEARLY unranked, by “US News” & World Report, at this time. You are welcome for the beatdown, cockroach. Go scurry off into the corner, now that I have shed light on you.

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  116. I post this for all people who are considering Drexel, or are looking at this because they are at Drexel and second guessing their choice.

    The Philadelphia legal market is being ROCKED. If you think it was bad in '08, you should look at it now.

    Take this post with a grain of salt; actually, just take it: unless you go to Penn, or do very well at Temple, you will have a very hard time securing employment in Philadelphia - coming out of Philadelphia law schools.

    The ONLY reason that I even put Temple in the same breath as Penn is because Temple is firmly rooted in Philadelphia. I'd also like to point out that I am not making statements regarding the WORTH of the education at these schools, per se. Rather, I am making statements regarding the WORTH of the degree/investment in relation to career prospects. There is a distinction; if you fail to see it, stop reading now.

    Okay, if you kept reading then you comprehend the difference between a good education and a good investment. For the most part, you can go to any law school in the country and get a good legal education. I have no doubt that Drexel provides great legal education, but the ISSUE is one of whether or not earning a J.D. there, or any TTT for that matter, is a wise investment. Because let's be completely candid, when you purchase a degree (yes, I said purchase), you are purchasing the name brand of the school and the alumni connections. In essence, you must ask yourself if it's worth the money that you are spending on the degree.

    Your biggest obstacle in answering this question is YOU; don't trick yourself. Undoubtedly, students at TTTs will hear of exceptions to the rule - people getting great jobs after graduation - and cling to these stories for hope to continue on. Big mistake. You can tell yourself all you want that you will somehow beat the odds, but the odds are, you won't. The system is designed in a way to distinguish and reward the people at the top of the totem pole. And guess what? The more fodder there is at the bottom, the more people there can be at the top. What would happen if 50% of a 1L class dropped out after first semester? Simple: less people will be in the top 5%, which means less people will have a remote CHANCE of getting a job at a big firm and continue the cycle of selling dreams to new prospects. So when student affairs tells you how great you are, and why they want you to stay, or attend, think about that.

    I agree with Nando; unless you get full tuition, you are gambling. Unless you have a job BEFORE going to this school, you are gambling. Unless you have great work experience BEFORE going to this school, you are gambling. If you can accept the gamble, more power to you. If you are even remotely concerned, or hesitant, do not take the plunge.

    And back to you, Nando.

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  117. #119 ranking. Higher than Widener, lower than Nova.

    I have no idea where the second, third tier and toilets break apart so I was wondering if the #119 ranking makes this post more or less accurate, specifically as it relates to Drexel and not all law schools (unless you're a trust-fund baby, if you think it's a good idea to pay full tuition to go to any law school you are batshit crazy)

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  118. I guess Nando was right.

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  119. I am not surprised Drexel Law is ranked #119. While the incoming statistics of Drexel students are solid, the true value of a law school's reputation is how the local legal community views that school. Drexel Law alums are just performing their first depositions, trials, motion hearings, settlement conference, etc... It will take at least a generation or perhaps two before other attorneys not just take notice of Drexel Law alums but truly appreciate them. Take a look at the websites of local Delaware Valley law firms. The partners and associates are a hodge podge of Villanova, Temple, Rutgers and Widener attorneys. Dickinson and Penn alums are also present but many from Penn leave the area. Of course you see others who left the area for law school but many times their undergraduate degrees are from local colleges. Many important relationships are made after law school. Attorneys encounter each other while litigating cases, working in social organizations, attorney associations, non legal businesses, etc... Many times firms and partnerships are formed as a result of these encounters. All of this happens over years, if not decades! After a period of time it is not so much where you went to school but how you perform and deal with others. When I graduated law school I interviewed with a NJ Superior Court judge for a clerkship. He went to one Delaware Valley law school but was hired by a small law firm operated by alums from another local law school. They hired him, trained him, promoted him to partner and when the time came, they backed him politically for the judgeship. Now he tries to alternate clerks between his alma mater and that of his former law partners. This happens more often than people realize and anyone going to Drexel Law must know that everything they do will contribute to their law school's reputation. Most practicing lawyers could care less about what their former professors publish but they do care about how a trial is conducted, if a brief is persuasive and if you have a solid base of clients. I keep reading about how the local legal community is excited about Drexel Law but that is not what I am hearing from my colleagues. If Drexel Law had opened during a good economy I think feelings would be different. However, there is angst about where all of these new lawyers will find jobs. While local attorneys admire and respect Drexel University, they are not too keen about more competition for jobs. Hopefully the economy will get better, which will help Drexel Law alums and everyone else as well.

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  120. If you look at the statistics, it's a fine law school. Extremely selective: only 10% of applicants are admitted. This translates into higher bar pass rates: about 89% pass the PA bar on the first try. If you think it's an easy exam you'd be very wrong. This is outstanding, approaching passing rates of the elite schools. I don't know about those who take the bar in other states, but their home state statistics are tremendous. But they're tough to get into. Anyway, those are the facts.

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  121. I can't honestly say that, given our disappointing 119 ranking and our relatively small reputation in the local market, Drexel Law is a wise economic decision, although law school generally is bad decision. Drexel only became a smart choice retroactively after my 1L year when I was awarded a substantial increase in scholarship for academic performance. After my first student loan bill hit my inbox yesterday, I couldn't imagine having to pay back double what I actually owe, which many of my classmates unfortunately must do.

    I was disappointed to see that Drexel came in second-to-last in terms of its passage rate on the July 2012 Pennsylvania bar exam, beating out only Widener. However, even with only anecdotal knowledge of my classmates post-graduation, it seems like employment prospects are fairly positive. There are a fair amount who cracked into Big Law, many more in public interest and clerkships, and the usual smathering of small- to mid-size firms. However, I'll hold my breath until the real statistics come out in February.

    My recommendation: hold out for a large scholarship.

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  122. Drexel Law School is a shithole. Only retarded assholes would even consider attending this place.

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  123. Anon above me forgot to add they act like their 100 year old law school.

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  124. Us news is doing some weird tie garbage. Penn went from 8 to 7. Drexel went down from 119 o 126. Only Duquesne in PA is worse. Ouch.

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  125. Alumni here.

    As a bit of trivia, the original namesake of the school, Earle Mack, has abandoned this sinking ship as the school slowly swirls down the toilet.

    For those prospective students who are making matriculation decisions for Fall 2014, consider these recent words from the dean, which you won't be privy to during recruiting season:

    "The U.S. News & World Report law school rankings have been released.

    The rankings put us at 129 out of 194 ranked schools. (This compares to our 126 ranking last year. Because of ties, there is no 126 this year.) The U.S. News methodology relies on a variety of factors such as admissions indicators, assessment by peers and practitioners, student-faculty ratio, bar passage and job placement.

    The major driver of our rank appears to be assessments by peers and practitioners, which are extremely difficult to affect. To be sure, many law schools have for years undertaken Herculean efforts to impress their peers, investing vast resources in mass mailings to peer institutions. But in a market that has produced an unprecedented degree of competition for students, peer institutions have very little incentive to offer a favorable view of rival law schools. And the number of practitioners who actually provide the U.S. News with assessments of law schools is so small that it renders this score nearly meaningless.

    Like most other law schools around the nation, we have struggled in recent years to admit classes with equal LSAT and GPA scores to those we were able to recruit before the financial crisis hit. However, it may interest you to know that Drexel Law’s rank actually would be 108, if we were ranked solely on the quality of our 1L class.

    The newness of the school and relatively small size of our alumni base have contributed to challenges in job placements, although we continue to beef up activities in our Career Strategies Office and hope very soon to hire a new leader for that office.

    We are working to improve our bar pass numbers through a variety of programs to identify at-risk students and provide them with support services as they prepare for the exam. It is helpful to remember that given our small class size, results for two or three students have the power to affect our overall pass rate.

    It is even more important to note that the U.S. News rankings do not capture the intensity of experiential education that we offer or the quality of student experience, which are reflected in independently administered surveys such as the Law School Survey of Student Engagement. The U.S. News ranking does not measure the level of scholarship in law journals, the performance of students in competitions with peers, nor the professionalism with which recent graduates begin practice. It is quite common for us to hear from co-op supervisors, clinic instructors and employers that our students are far better prepared than those who attend other law schools. Once again this year, our Trial Team, Moot Court Board and Alternative Dispute Resolution Team have demonstrated a keen mastery of skills at major competitions…

    These characteristics should give us all a reason to be proud of Drexel Law, and yet no single ranking methodology exists that measures them adequately.

    The perspective offered by the ABA in a report it recently completed following its 2013 re-accreditation review provides a strong affirmation of our efforts. Acknowledging that the school faces challenges due to economic forces beyond its control, the report found that Drexel Law has “considerable strengths” that include “a strong, energetic and diverse faculty that performs well in the classroom and are productive scholars,” “intensely loyal students” who “love the law school,” and notably the steadfast support and commitment of University leaders.

    …I know that I can count upon you, our wonderful alumni, to continue serving as articulate ambassadors for Drexel Law and I hope you will share in my conviction that, over time, our reputation will catch up to reality. "

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