preLaw magazine is proud to report, in its Winter 2010 edition, that Western State finally got accredited. We can all sleep sound at night, knowing that this TTTTTremendous institution has gained full ABA accreditation.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/prelaw_2010winter/index.php?startid=Cover1#/12
When the announcement finally came this past August that Western State University had received full ABA accreditation, it was cause for celebration and joy at the 43-year-old school in Fullerton, Calif.
And it ONLY took 43 years! What a miracle!
“Not only have we demonstrated our compliance with the high academic standards that have been set before us, but we also feel more confident than ever that our graduates will be well-prepared to serve the legal community with excellence and a deserving sense of pride,” [Dean William] Adams said.
Yes, people will now fall over themselves to hire Western State grads!
The school’s 6 top reasons to attend their toilet:
http://www.wsulaw.edu/about-us/6-top-reasons.aspx
Job “Resources”:
http://www.wsulaw.edu/career-development/job-resources.aspx
They list Simplicity, PsLawNet, and Equal Justice Works as resources. You are better off shelling out $0.75 to buy a local newspaper as a means of finding legal employment, than you are by relying on these “resources.” Look at the long list of links at the bottom of the page. It’s the old “fling enough feces against the wall, and something will stick” strategy.
I also do not see where Employment figures or Salary statistics are listed, on the school’s site. Maybe Western State JDs make so much money, that the school is embarrassed to list those amounts on their web page. (Yeah, and maybe Salma Hayek is waiting to seduce me in the back seat of my car, too.)
Tuition:
http://www.wsulaw.edu/admissions/tuition-and-financial-aid.aspx
$32,600 for the 2009-10 academic year! For the mathematically-impaired admissions committee members, $16,300 per academic semester * two semesters = $32,600. Not listed is the cost of living. For that useful information, we access another resource:
http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/Fullerton/neighborhoods
The area scores a 128 on the Cost of Living Index. That means that the area is roughly 28 percent more expensive than the national average. (Not all of us law grads are math deficient.)
The median household income is also listed at $58,769, which is about 16 percent higher than the U.S. median household income listed for 2007. To be fair, I do not know how often the Yahoo Real Estate page is updated. But this at least gives us a rough idea of the cost of living in Fullerton, or the surrounding area.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h05.html
It seems plausible that a student at the Western State College of Law could easily end up $150K in debt – just from law school. And for what?!? For weak-ass job prospects in the legendary, over-saturated California legal market? You might as well set fire to that $150,000. Congratulations on attaining full accreditation, WesTTTTTern STTTTTaTTTTTe!
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/prelaw_2010winter/index.php?startid=Cover1#/12
When the announcement finally came this past August that Western State University had received full ABA accreditation, it was cause for celebration and joy at the 43-year-old school in Fullerton, Calif.
And it ONLY took 43 years! What a miracle!
“Not only have we demonstrated our compliance with the high academic standards that have been set before us, but we also feel more confident than ever that our graduates will be well-prepared to serve the legal community with excellence and a deserving sense of pride,” [Dean William] Adams said.
Yes, people will now fall over themselves to hire Western State grads!
The school’s 6 top reasons to attend their toilet:
http://www.wsulaw.edu/about-us/6-top-reasons.aspx
Job “Resources”:
http://www.wsulaw.edu/career-development/job-resources.aspx
They list Simplicity, PsLawNet, and Equal Justice Works as resources. You are better off shelling out $0.75 to buy a local newspaper as a means of finding legal employment, than you are by relying on these “resources.” Look at the long list of links at the bottom of the page. It’s the old “fling enough feces against the wall, and something will stick” strategy.
I also do not see where Employment figures or Salary statistics are listed, on the school’s site. Maybe Western State JDs make so much money, that the school is embarrassed to list those amounts on their web page. (Yeah, and maybe Salma Hayek is waiting to seduce me in the back seat of my car, too.)
Tuition:
http://www.wsulaw.edu/admissions/tuition-and-financial-aid.aspx
$32,600 for the 2009-10 academic year! For the mathematically-impaired admissions committee members, $16,300 per academic semester * two semesters = $32,600. Not listed is the cost of living. For that useful information, we access another resource:
http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/Fullerton/neighborhoods
The area scores a 128 on the Cost of Living Index. That means that the area is roughly 28 percent more expensive than the national average. (Not all of us law grads are math deficient.)
The median household income is also listed at $58,769, which is about 16 percent higher than the U.S. median household income listed for 2007. To be fair, I do not know how often the Yahoo Real Estate page is updated. But this at least gives us a rough idea of the cost of living in Fullerton, or the surrounding area.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h05.html
It seems plausible that a student at the Western State College of Law could easily end up $150K in debt – just from law school. And for what?!? For weak-ass job prospects in the legendary, over-saturated California legal market? You might as well set fire to that $150,000. Congratulations on attaining full accreditation, WesTTTTTern STTTTTaTTTTTe!
Great post Nando. 43 years to get accreditation?? Western State students would be better off spending that $32,600 on lotto tickets, at least then they'd have a chance to get something for their money.
ReplyDeleteI like how the article notes that Western State was the first real, for-profit law school. LOL. I mean, aren’t they all for profit? Why else would they charge $40K per year in tuition?
ReplyDeleteI feel bad for you. The liberal blame game is a trap that you may never escape from. Your reality construct helps you deal with your own insufficiency and failure. However, the TRUE SELF MADE MAN can see the WORLD of OPPORTUNITY that exists in the free market. I am a highly successful business executive and self-made industrialist. I know countless SUCCESSFUL attorneys who enjoy their job and make well into six figures.
ReplyDeleteI hope someday you can join us in the FREE MARKET OF SUCCESS AND PROSPERITY!!!
The Calif Bar has always been a pain in the ABA's a*s for years. You see, Calif is one of the few states that accredits its own law schools. The Calif Bar allows internet study of Law (expl. Taft Univ), LAw Office study of LAw, Correspondence Study of LAw (expl. UNL), and non-ABA accredited schools( JFK, Calif NOrthern etc etc...).
ReplyDeleteYou may think that this restricts the LAw Grads only to Calif. No! IT is true that Calif grads must pass the Baby Bar and Calif Bar Exam (a rough exam). But, the Calif Law Grads after they get their license can sit for the exams in all but four states (fly overs Iowa, Idaho; I forget the other two, sorry). Whether or not WEstern gets its crappy ABA accreditation is immaterial. AS JFK in San Francisco stated, "it no longer aspires to ABA accreditation." People will apply to Calif schools as long as they can sit for the Calif Bar exam. They will leave the rough Calif legal job market and goto the remaining states.
Most private schools charge about $30K in yearly tuition, not $40K. Although, I do agree that ALL law schools are primarily profit-driven (including the state schools). This is why they continue to pump out far more JDs than there are available positions. U.S. law schools are all out to make a dollar, and they do not give a damn that many of their students will never practice law!
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Orange County Register, We$tern $tate is owned by Pittsburgh-based Education Management Corporation. Here is the link:
http://collegelife.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/06/western-state-law-school-finally-gets-aba-accreditation/6605/
I had to laugh when the articles closes with this: "The Whittier Law School and the Chapman University School of Law are the only other ABA-accredited law schools in Orange County."
Yes, and they are all sub-par law schools. Does the paper think Orange County needs another TTTT?
I have a soft spot in my heart for We$TTTTern $TTTTaTTTTe. It was where I sat for my LSAT. Since the beginning of the end of my life happened there, I think when they bury me, I want to be buried right there on the grounds of Western State, with a tombstone that reads: "Here lies a lawyer who graduated from a school four tiers above this one, and still never made a dime from it. Good luck, suckers."
ReplyDeletem... HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
ReplyDeleteAt what point to you guys/gals say that enough info is out there for the aspiring law student that their six figure debt is on them?
ReplyDeleteI mean, after a certain point, even some of you eternal pessimists have to admit that the burden lies with the student who refuses to open his/her eyes, right?
Of course, we would never apply that to you, but I'm just saying, what about next year's class? What about in five years? Ten?
Doug
tobeajd.blogspot.com
To the lemming above,
ReplyDeleteWe are not talking about unicorns, werewolves, dragons, wizards, or elves. If you want to read about those things listed above, then go check out a fantasy novel from your local library. If you want to view eternal optimist drivel, go check out a book or DVD by Joel Osteen. On this site, we talk about third tier reality. We are talking about real people’s lives, i.e. hard-working, motivated, and – for the most part – intelligent young people pissing away their financial livelihood on an expensive legal education.
I made the decision to go to law school, with the best information I had available. I took a calculated risk, and it did not pay off. This is also the case for legions of law students.
What were my options back then? Call up the respective law school admissions committee members and deans and ask them to provide me with a redacted version of the employment and starting salary figures, for their last three graduating classes? It seems that alumni, current law students, AND lawyers can’t get access to this info from the law schools. But the burden is still solely on the student, right?
These blogs shed light on the law school racket, by providing better information to potential law students. People need balanced info before making this important decision. YOU seem to want students to have access only to industry propaganda. Not a big fan of the marketplace of ideas, huh?
If YOU buy a meal and you get food poisoning, is that your fault for not watching the cook prepare your food? (Ask the restaurant manager if you can go in the kitchen to make sure your food is prepared and cooked thoroughly. See what his response will be.) Remember, if you go out to eat, it is foreseeable that you could be exposed to unsanitary food.
If YOU get in a car wreck caused by someone else, should you not file an accident report and an insurance claim? After all, if you drive a car you take a risk that you could be involved in an auto accident. You mean to tell me that you wouldn’t be able to avoid such a crash?
Is that your moral position, Lemming?
hardworking and motivated...that you are not Nando. You never were, and you never will be. Thats why you are where you are today [read: nowhere]. The hardest you've ever worked was on this blog and you can take the money you made from complaining on the internet all the way to the bank. Oh wait...
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
A Happy Recent Drake Grad with a legal job!!!
Looks like the adcom wanted to get in one last lick before the weekend. What do u guys know about hard work sitting in your little officem, and reading news articles all day long?
ReplyDeleteIf you are so happy, then why do you need to stoop to personal attacks? Are you not smart enough to make a cogent argument that third tier law schools are a good "investment" for most students?
ReplyDeleteI worked full-time (at a decent job) and went to school full-time, and earned a 3.82 GPA in undergrad - all while being married. So know that, before you continue to talk out of your ass. (Although, I am happy to let you persist in your blatant ignorance.) Now, if YOU want, you can use your Drake email account and send me a message so we can discuss our positions further. I seriously doubt you will, though.
Nando,
ReplyDeleteCheck this out:
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/01/too-many-laywers-but-also-too-many-cartels.php
Look at their Top 6 Reasons to Attend under #2: "The faculty to student ratio is under 20 to 1; professors have open door policy and are highly accessible, encourage students to visit their office or email."
ReplyDeleteTheir sentence structure is pretty telling.
Western state jammed on the Feb 2010 CA Bar Exam, beating: U Laverne, UC Davis, U of San Francisco, Chapman, Whittier, Southwestern and USC. To all you haters, WAZZU is on its way up. GO WSU!!
ReplyDeleteAnd how many of those JDs who passed the bar exam will NEVER practice law? The fact remains that We$TTTTern $TTTTTaTTTTTe Univer$iTTTTTy Commode of Law is a waste of time, energy and large sums of borrowed money.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wsulaw.edu/admissions/quick-facts.aspx
Look, for the 2009-2010 school year, full-time students at this dump were charged $32,600 in tuition alone. Remember, bar passage DOES NOT EQUAL legal employment. And that is the whole point of passing the bar exam, is it not? You are not really a lawyer until a CLIENT pays you for your legal services.
http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf
According to the employment report by NALP, the Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates - for a total of 28,901 jobs requiring bar passage. And California's legal market is terribly over-saturated.
So, would you like to explain exactly how WSU is on its way up?! Unless, of course, you are referring to the ridiculously-high tuition. Hell, it took the sewer 43 years to gain full ABA accreditation. Yes, what a giant feat, right?! Remember, the ABA tends to approve any building with bookshelves, running water, printers, and a fax machine as an American law school.
Nando said...
ReplyDeleteIf you are so happy, then why do you need to stoop to personal attacks?
-perhaps "when in rome"? That's all you do afterall. (as if you could do anything else)
Nando said...
And how many of those JDs who passed the bar exam will NEVER practice law?
-Believe it or not MOST people are not as pathetic as you and DO practice law. (and yes that even includes non-aba grads, so how sad does that make it to be you?)
To the moron above,
ReplyDeleteHow many of those people are in toiletlaw, struggling to pay their bills? News flash: someone with $130K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt is not better off with a lawyer job - making $37K annually - than someone making the same amount and less debt. Do you understand that, or do I need to draw you a diagram with Crayola on posterboard?!?!
By the way, ABA is spelled with capitals. I suppose this realization might tax the brain of a We$TTTTTern $TTTTTaTTTTTe student or graduate. Learn how to use proper spacing, punctuation and sentence structure, idiot.
If you notice, I enjoy a debate on the facts. We will disagree on things. However, once someone has PROVEN to be an ignorant troll and a waste of space, my patience wears thin. When these cretins persist in making baseless assertions and ad hominem attacks, I will pummel them - and beat them down with the facts, logic, and industry statements.
You are welcome for the ass-kicking.
I think the best book a law student will ever read is a book on changing your identity and hiding for the rest of your life because the collection agencies will never stop hounding them for their $200K non-dischargeable debt they never will be able to pay after graduation.
ReplyDeleteFORK IN THE ROAD!
ReplyDeleteAfter reading these posts, glad I did NOT attend law school. Thought law school was the ANSWER, since many family members were attorneys. In '83 was accepted @ Western Law School (no LSAT requirement) & changed my mind about attending when I came out there. Came back to my hometown of Chicago, became an accounting-- auditor for the State, retired early @ 55.
You never know where the road will lead!