Wednesday, February 10, 2010

Next Stop on the Fourth Tier Express: Regent University School of Law



Regent’s Motto: “Law is More Than a Profession. It’s a Calling.”

http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/lgl/1593131983.html

With the shape this industry is in, what is it calling – Domino’s? Life support?

Cost of Attendance: for the 2009-2010 academic year, tuition and fees at Regent School of Law add up to $29,852.

Total Cost of Attendance: the estimated total COA at Regent for the 2009-2010 school year is $49,972! Expensive, but I’m sure the school’s reputation will make up for this by opening up many doors to its students and graduates, right?!
http://www.regent.edu/admin/finaid/costs_law0910.cfm

School Rank: According to US News & World Report, Regent is ranked in the fantastic fourth tier of U.S. law schools! No wonder they can get away with charging so much in tuition! Employers are climbing over each other to hire Regent grads.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+7/index.html#

Job Outcomes: Under Facts & Stats, RegenTTTT claims that, among its Class of 2008:

90.9% were employed or in a graduate program within nine months of graduation.
11.4% were employed in judicial clerkships.
72% were employed before graduation.

Then again, Angel the Lawyer could claim to bench-press 325 pounds. The school simply cannot back up its supposed “facts & stats” – in any scientific way. The burden is on them to prove their claim.

http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/careeralumni/melissa/prospectives.cfm

So the question remains: would Jesus charge poor and middle-class people $29,852 per year for a legal education from a lower-tier law school? Would he manipulate “facts” in order to fleece more young people out of their (borrowed) money? I mean, this is the man who kicked the moneychangers out of the temple, right?

Then again, Regent University was the “brainchild” of Marion Gordon “Pat” Robertson. Not exactly Jesus. Perhaps the school could land in the third tier if the school reverted back to its original name: Christian Broadcasting Network University.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_University

Reality check: the school is in a crowded market, as Virginia has SEVEN other law schools. Here is how RegenTTTT Law stacks up against its in-state competition – rankings are from the 2010 graduate school rankings by USN&WR:

University of Virginia at number 10; William & Mary at 28; Washington and Lee at 30; George Mason at 41; University of Richmond at 77; Appalachian School of Law occupying the fourth tier; and provisionally-accredited Liberty rounding things out. And don’t forget all of the regional powerhouses, such as Duke, UNC, Vanderbilt and Emory. And the law schools in the Washington D.C. area (which George Mason would be considered a part of).

Good luck, Regent grads. You will certainly need it. For prospective law students, do not go here, unless you get a full-tuition scholarship and are not paying major living expenses, such as rent or a car payment. Seriously, DO NOT base your decision on faith or trying to make your parents proud. Go with the cold, hard facts and decide accordingly.
Remember, you will be the one with massive, non-dischargeable student debt to pay off for the next 30 years, NOT your parents or your girlfriend!

37 comments:

  1. Yep, when it comes down to it, the loans will be in your name.

    Regents is trying to corner the market to give Christian conservatives reassurance that their legal education is so much purer and better than the brand sold by the liberal/secular/godless counterparts. But in the end, the student/borrower will be drawing from the same student loan pot as all the other students of secular law schools.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Well look at what Maryland is trying to do and it bordets DC and VA: lifesmockery.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/does-prince-georges-need-a-law-school-an-article-in-the-washington-post/

    ReplyDelete
  3. Another law school in that area? There has to be close to 15 law schools in the MD/DC/VA area. Does anyone know how many? This borders on insanity!

    ReplyDelete
  4. To be fair, Regent is a little different. There are a lot of very bright and motivated folks who could have gotten into higher-ranked schools, but chose Regent for the religious/political atmosphere. Some of them are scary-smart, in fact, and no doubt will use their conservative, Christian-dominionist connections to get work in the next Republican administration.

    ReplyDelete
  5. You mean TWO MORE law schools in that area, talk about over-saturating the market.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Thank you for providing me the link to Life's Mockery. It looks like a quality blog that chronicles the law school industry's impact on minorities and low-income people.

    Virginia has 8 law schools (although George Mason is also listed as a DC law school); DC has 7; and Maryland has two law schools, i.e. University of Baltimore and University of Maryland.

    You can look at a list of law schools by state via this link:

    http://stu.findlaw.com/schools/usaschools/index.html

    I could not access the link to the Washington Post article from the blog, but here it is:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2009/04/legal_studies.html

    DC needs a branch of Fourth Tier U. of Baltimore? How will this serve the public? There are already 7 law schools in the District, with plenty more in the neighboring states!! Students from another fourth-tier, fourth-rate law school cannot compete with their counterparts at Georgetown, UVA, or William & Mary. This is simply a ruse for impoverishing more lower-income people with the illusion of attaining "upward mobility."

    Disgusting! Law schools are concerned with job security for overpaid law professors and administrators - at the expense of young people and taxpayer money. This is what the legal industry is all about!!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Nonsense!

    A law degree from Regent is the ticket onto the Christian Right's wingnut-welfare express. Just write a couple of illiterate right-wing rants (blogs, books, whatever) and you too can become a Heritage fellow with a guaranteed spot as a commentator on Fox News.

    Sign me up!!!

    ReplyDelete
  8. The blog entry on “Life’s Mockery” did include a link to the Washington Post article. I somehow missed this when I read the post earlier. I am not sure whether the proposal went forward; I cannot find anything more recent to indicate that the DC-area is getting a new law school.

    The fact remains that Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia have a total of 16 law schools between them. Of these, the following are in the first tier of law schools: UVA, Georgetown, William & Mary, Washington and Lee, American U., GMU, and Maryland.

    On top of all this, the DC legal market is EXTREMELY overcrowded. DC firms and federal agencies are seeking former Biglaw associates with 15-20 years experience. They are generally not seeking new lawyers – especially if those grads do not have SERIOUS family, business, or political connections. They want people with the right credentials, i.e. Ivy League, law review, big firm experience. They are NOT looking to hire TTT or TTTT grads.

    I am not saying that every law student should shoot for Biglaw – or even that most would be happy in such an environment. However, when people are graduating with $140K+ in law school debt, they need a position in Biglaw just to make a positive return on their investment.

    Despite being a fourth tier piece of trash, Regent did get a lot of placement in the U.S. Department of Justice, under Bush and Ashcroft. However, no one should count on this happening again.

    http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/08/scandal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/

    ReplyDelete
  9. @Nando, the MD State Delegate is only doing a study which means they're really planning.Notice they ceased the study for a stadium, maybe they thought it wasn't lucrative enough but guess what opening a law school branch (which is sooooo unnecessary) would be! I think a grassroots approach needs to be taken to warn Prince George's County that some "elements" are trying to hype up law education by infiltrating their area.

    ReplyDelete
  10. you dont need a big law position to make a return on $200k+ debt. It would just take 10 years or more to pay off. Note most people never pay off mortgages on houses, and I dont see why investing in yourself is any worse than a house. Most people that go to graduate schools in areas like psych and liberal arts only make $40K to $60K starting out and are quite happy just paying the interest and knowing theyll never pay off debt. You make some great points but this one goes too far imo.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Um, what? Can you live underneath your law diploma? I think not.

    ReplyDelete
  12. To 3:54,

    What about the concept of "debt is slavery"? Until you pay off your house, car, or other possessions, you do not truly “own” those things. Also, paying $1000 a month to your “loan service providers” takes money out of your mouth. This is $1000 that could be used on your monthly food, rent/mortgage, insurance, heat, etc. You could also save or invest a fair amount of that total each month. Instead, this scheme fattens up Sallie Mae and its executives, as well as law school administrators who are paid up front.

    Being in debt is stressful. Money affects one’s happiness, marriage, and lifestyle. Who can afford to buy a house, have more than 1 or 2 children, and pay off $160K in non-dischargeable student loans?! Who can relax or enjoy the quieter moments in life, when constantly thinking about the immense debt they have?

    Remember, we live in an unpredictable work world filled with anxiety – where employees are increasingly expendable. This is not 1950, where a man armed with a high school diploma could make enough money to support his entire family and put the kids through college. Those days are forever gone. How many people today can count on having one employer for 30 years?!

    Fourth tier law schools like Regent upset me for the following reasons: (1) they provide young people of modest means with the illusion of attaining “upward mobility”; (2) they do so by distorting their self-reported employment and starting salary figures; (3) they often charge $30K in annual tuition and then instill the gospel of “public service” into their students; and (4) they contribute to the glut of attorneys in this country.

    These things, in turn, push down the wage level for lawyers – as clients can go to a cheaper attorney. The overabundance of attorneys also makes it damn near impossible for a recent grad to have a successful solo practice; they simply do not have the startup funds or the budget for advertising. The new lawyer is at a HUGE disadvantage, as older solo practitioners and established law firms can easily outspend him on advertising, and attract more clients. He is at a further disadvantage, as the costs of law school have skyrocketed in the last 15 years or so.

    Older solos did not graduate with $143K in total student loan debt. What bank will even provide a small business loan to a newbie with such immense debt and no legal experience?

    In the end, such a corrupt and morally-bankrupt system provides us with an educated working class that is not much better off financially than those with high school educations. And – in many cases – these educated workers are in MUCH worse financial shape than their counterparts, who only have high school diplomas.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Its a bad market. Nay, a horrific market now. But the sad truth is that tuition aint coming down for any grad school. Law has always had serious downside if you cant pass the bar. Its not a profession for the faint of heart. You cant break into the profession without risking failing. So the risk is greater now. Big deal. Part of the reality of the American dream is living in debt at first.

    My dad graduated in 1980 when interests rates for homes was 20%. He dealt. So must our generation that has some shit ass timing

    ReplyDelete
  14. Passing the bar is really not the hurdle that people make it out to be. It all rides on LSAT and first year grades.

    ReplyDelete
  15. only if you want big law...sheesh..most people are aware it takes networking, You really had some irrational expectations employment stats or not. NO ONE hands you 160K. Everyone knows only the elite get that.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Is it entitlement attitude to expect $40k a year after seven years of formal higher education? We both know the entitlement thing is foolish to believe, but who's the voice of reason out there to relay it to the young? That's why we preach that law school is a scam.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Nando, just got some recruitment propaganda from Drake. Claims 97% employment rate nine months after grad! I can send you jpegs if you like.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Quick head up: I'm not 100% sure about this, but I have a feeling it's possible someone has impersonated you on one of your friend's (Angel/HardKnocks) blogs.

    The comment allegedly by you had content I had never heard from you before; involves discussion of race and tracks too similarly to someone who has been banned from JDU for his rants against the "Jerry Seinfeld elite and Martha Stewart elite," and how minorities in power are their "minions." I really hope it wasn't you.

    ReplyDelete
  19. JD underdog-

    Your point is well taken. To me, it actually is entitlement to "expect." This whole recession and awareness movement is going to go miles in helping uber-green academics understand that looking for a job and finding one is more important that simply doing well in school where no real world instincts are required.

    Having said that, I think all of your blogs are fantastic and will make a difference. Btw, Nando, check out the website for "American College of the Law" and click on the link "enjoy the site" on the left hand side. They provide a quality "eucation" AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  20. To 6:45, the man you are referring to is an idiot and rabid antisemite who seeks to blame everything on a racial group. He is a sick person.

    I simply agreed with the blog entry from Hardknocks and the article from The American Scholar, which the entry cited. That piece noted that many Ivy League-educated liberals cannot really connect to the people they purport to represent, i.e. the working classes.

    I also pointed out the obvious, i.e. Obama is a puppet who gladly defends the status quo. I have stated this before elsewhere. The man is a figurehead, as are all of our elected "leaders."

    Go back and read the comments. The writing styles and content do not mirror each other.

    ReplyDelete
  21. to Regents credit, the professor youtube video on the 5th amendment did get over half a million views. at least it was free. is it still worth to go there, probably not.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Regent is a good school. One of a kind. You hate everyone and clearly have no life to make a site for every lawschool in the world. What a pathetic loser.

    ReplyDelete
  23. To the cockroach who posted on August 26, 2011 at 8:49 pm,

    WHAT makes this dung heap a good school, loser?! (I imagine that you will not bother to post a response, moron.) It helps to back up your claims/assertions - with the facts, bitch. Otherwise, people will recognize you as a piece of garbage who cannot make a cogent argument. By the way, I have not covered any law schools outside of the U.S, ignorant fool. You are also welcome, for the beatdown, idiot.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Nando you are a liberal faggot

    ReplyDelete
  25. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=199.36.15.4

    OrgName: ECPI Colleges, Inc.
    OrgId: ECPIC
    Address: 5555 Greenwich Rd, Suite 300
    City: Virginia Beach
    StateProv: VA
    PostalCode: 23452
    Country: US
    RegDate: 2008-11-18
    Updated: 2008-11-18
    Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/org/ECPIC

    From my analytics:

    Visits: 1
    Unique ID: 3306511364
    IP address: 199.36.15.4
    Locale: Virginia Beach, VA, USA / English
    Platform: Internet Explorer 8.0 / Windows XP / 1680x1050

    Visits by this user in the last 7 days

    Mar 6 2012 5:53pm 199.36.15.4 1 action 10s google.com [secure search]

    Hello, pussy. In the end, YOU are a pathetic loser. This is why you need to attend a religious toilet founded by that pile of rancid excrement named Marion Gordon Robertson. Now you can see why this bigot chose the nickname “Pat.” Why not go by his middle name, at least?! His given name is not Patrick.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

    Perhaps, Cockroach Robertson is subconsciously paying tribute to the times that his priest would pat him on the crotch, as a child. When you finally get laid by a woman, come back on this blog, cockroach.

    http://www.patrobertson.com/SpiritualJourney/SomethingMissing.asp

    Look at your mentally imbalanced hero’s description. The bastard failed the New York Bar Exam. That is quite an “accomplishment” for someone who graduated from Yale Law School, huh, ball-licker?!?!

    By the way, mental midget: I am pretty conservative, on several issues. Then again, people with low intelligence find it easier to rely on idiotic political labels. If your mother or sister is gang raped by a pack of thugs, tell those tramps to keep the baby. Remember, another religious/corporate pig - Richard John Santorum - sees such situations as “a gift.” And not in the same way that you view your boyfriend’s penis in your mouth as a present.

    ReplyDelete
  26. http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/pat-robertson-prayer-could-have-stopped-to

    The piece of shit is at it again. This time he said prayer could have stopped the recent torandoes.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Nando you are liberal scum and it is funny how butt hurt you got when Aug 26, 2011 08:49 PM told you whats up!!!

    ReplyDelete
  28. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=70.169.138.181

    Hello, Christian waste product. How are you doing today, in Yorktown, Virginia, bitch?! If you had more than three brain cells, waterhead, you would realize that people tend to be liberal in some areas and conservative in others.

    At least, I can see how you ended up at this pathetic trash heap. After all, you were too stupid to get into a better school. By the way, plenty of "dirty liberals" have fought and died in many U.S. wars. Do yourself a favor and keep your mouth shut, cretin. If you read the New Testament, Jesus comes across as an absolute liberal?! If you want, you can choose to follow bigoted excrement piles - such as Marion Gordon Robertson. Stupid people constantly need to have their (idiotic) beliefs reinforced.

    Lastly, are you a reactionary Christian fundamentalist piece of trash, because your mother was a whore - and you are trying to atone for her "sins"?!?! Did she give birth to you,out of wedlock? Leave your personal politics, i.e. religious nonsense, to yourself, dung beetle. In the end, it doesn't matter what YOU think, retard. Now, go back to your coloring book. The next time your boyfriend pounds your ass from behind, then you can talk about being "butt hurt."

    From my analytics:

    Visits: 4
    Unique ID: 8590624955801875583
    IP address: 69.33.10.242
    Locale: Yorktown, VA, USA / English
    Platform: Google Chrome 18.0 / Windows 7 / 1600x900

    Visits by this user in the last 7 days

    Apr 17 2012 2:35am 70.169.138.181 1 action 10s
    Apr 17 2012 2:13am 69.33.10.242 1 action 10s

    ReplyDelete
  29. I got the full scholarship at this school and the community you get here is the best. (Princeton Review gave one of the top spots to Regent in this category)

    And yes, I've been to Harvard and seen how those proud elitists practice dog-eat-dog approach to life. It's disgusting.

    There are more important things in life than attending prestigious law school or any law school for that matter. But if you do, go where your core values are practiced.

    If you are worried about student debts, do not study in the United States. Go to Europe, education there in many places is pennies or at no cost at all. Go to Asia (Korea, Japan, Singapore) and get the education from where the technological breakthroughs happen.

    When you come back home you won't have to worry about the next 20 years of student debts. That's what I did and I don't have to worry about the student loans.

    My undergraduate and two graduate degrees are fully paid off by Jesus. Ask and you shall receive.

    ReplyDelete
  30. To the delusional moron above:

    "My undergraduate and two graduate degrees are fully paid off by Jesus. Ask and you shall receive."

    Maybe Jesus can provide you with some brain cells, mental midget.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+7

    Regent University Sewer of Law is STILL RANKED AS A FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT, by US "News" & World Report. How is that for prestigious, Dumbass?!?! By the way, ratings matter to legal employers. I don't like the elitist attitudes of many JDs, either. However, at least those graduates have much better odds of landing decent employment, when they receive their degrees.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+4

    According to the latest installment of USN&WR's average law student indebtedness figures, members of the RegenTTTT Univer$iTTTTy JD Class of 2011 - who incurred debt for law school - took out $108,068 in additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for their TTTT law degree! Yes, what excellent "core values," right?!?!


    Furthermore, 97 percent of this class incurred such toxic debt for law school. If you earned two graduate degrees and an Bachelor's without accumulating any student debt, then you likely come from a very wealthy family. By the way, why would this pathetic law school provide you with a full tuition scholarship - if you earned your other degrees from outside the U.S.?

    http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/admissions/finances.cfm#tuition

    Tuition for 2012-2013: Full-time, first year students enrolled in this garbage heap – for 2012-2013 – will be charged $33,945 in tuition. Plus, the pigs are also assessing $760 in student fees. What do you expect from “non-profit” corporations masquerading as religious institutions?

    Hell, Marion Gordon Robertson is simply a snake-oil salesman who preys on foolish people who want to believe his message. He better hope that there is nothing after this life – especially if rotten people are punished for their sins or crimes. After all, he is a vile, disgusting pile of human excrement.

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnyquotes/a/patrobertson.htm

    ReplyDelete
  31. Here is the IP address of the piece of trash who keeps trying to defend RegenTTTT Univer$iTTTTy Sewer of Law:

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=70.160.41.150

    IP Lookup Details:
    IP Information - 70.160.41.150
    Host name: ip70-160-41-150.hr.hr.cox.net
    Country: United States
    Country Code: US
    Region: VA
    City: Virginia Beach
    Latitude: 36.8463
    Longitude: -76.0979

    From analytics, cockroach:

    Visits: 7

    Unique ID: 515712296
    IP address: 70.160.41.150
    Locale: Virginia Beach, VA, USA/English
    Organization: Cox Communications/cox.net
    Platform: Firefox 15.0/Windows 7/1920x1080

    Visits by this user in the last 7 days

    Sep 17 2012 7:02pm Cox Communications 1 action 10m lawschoolsewagepitprofile...
    Sep 17 2012 6:40pm Cox Communications 2 actions 11m 2s lawschoolsewagepitprofile...
    Sep 17 2012 6:22pm Cox Communications 3 actions 2m 40s
    Sep 17 2012 5:34pm Cox Communications 1 action 9m 59s lawschoolsewagepitprofile...
    Sep 17 2012 9:20am Cox Communications 2 actions 10m lawschoolsewagepitprofile...
    Sep 17 2012 7:54am Cox Communications 10 actions 27m 38s
    Sep 16 2012 7:20pm Cox Communications 2 actions 10m google.com

    Get a life, loser. Take your supposed "Christian values" - and shove them up your ass, bitch. By the way, would Jesus require his students to incur $108,068 in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - for a pathetic law degree?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Regent Law School is a shithole. Expect it to be in the fourth tier again when the US News rankings come out on Tuesday.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep. It's still ranked in the fourth tier. The only ones that get good jobs from here are the dumb rich kids too dumb to get into a real law school. (But mom and dad already have a job up for them.)

      The brown nosers can also do okay for themselves, if they are committed Jesusheads. But they have to be willing to constantly kiss ass.

      Delete
    2. Sorry, not true.

      Delete
  33. I graduated from Regent University, and unfortunately, I bought in to their marketing ploy hook, line, and sinker. Looking back, I would not choose Regent if I could do it over again. They encourage loans and put such pressure on students to take them that it is unreal.

    I went into considerable debt for a degree from Regent. My only saving grace was at one point that I am in a market area where the name of a school is not as important as the fact that one has an advanced degree. But times - and markets - have indeed changed.

    I am now married with 3 children, and since 2009, have found that obtaining steady employment is difficult, at best. Yet I still have over $100K in student debt, looming larger and larger because being chronically unemployed doesn't even allow me to feed my family, let alone pay off student loans.

    So, I agree that debt is a sin and I publicly confess that I disregarded the instruction of the Bible by believing the lies of the Administration at Regent that I could expect to have a career where my starting salary was "$120K or better."

    I also agree with those posts that malign Regent's business tactics. Using deceit to obtain riches, while expounding on the virtues of public service - all the while making slaves of your fellow man - is hypocrisy.

    I actually am at the point where I am applying to public service jobs, that pay less than 1/4 what my supposed Regent credentials would have garnered, had their "prognostications" been true. There is nothing inherently wrong with public service; but at some point soon, I am going to have to give up the house, and the car, and other "luxuries" because of this economy and the high debt-to-income ratio I have. I don't blame Regent necessarily - I signed the papers. What I do blame is their deceitful tactics so they can line their own pockets.

    And once you graduate from Regent, they practically "disown" you. There is no more "fellowship," no more congeniality, no more "job placement assistance," no more freebies. I've graduated from 3 other schools with degrees and/or certificates in different fields to stay employable - several schools before and once school since Regent - Regent is the only school that leaves it's graduates to the wolves. Even the secular schools I graduated from before Regent will still help former graduates with job placement, unofficial transcripts, networking events. Why? Because if you look good, THEY look good. Not Regent.

    Their bottom line? It's their bottom line; "you don't look good (to us) unless we're making money off you!"

    Avoid Regent as if they had the bubonic plague; you'll be glad you did.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Having personal knowledge of a law degree from Regent, I can truly say most of what is said above is nothing but pure junk. Law school is not cheap, no law school. College is work and it is my experience that you get out of it exactly what you put into it, bottom line. Your success, or lack thereof, is directly related to you as a person, and not to the school you attended, regardless of which school.

    ReplyDelete
  35. To the piece of trash who posted on August 23, 2014 at 6:59 pm and 7:00 pm,

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+7

    Regent "University" Sewer of Law is still rated as a FOURTH TIER TRASH CAN - by US "News" & World Report. How do you like that, Bitch?!?!

    Law firms with a decent reputation want NOTHING to do with the typical graduate from a bottom-feeding law school. They want to hire men and women who attended good schools. Crossing the street without getting hit by a car is a bigger accomplishment than earning a law degree from RegenTTTT.

    ReplyDelete

 
Web Analytics