Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Stinking Pile of Rot: William Mitchell College of Law

Tuition: For the 2010-2011 school year, a full-time law student at this wondrous program will be charged $33,800 in tuition.

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same page, expenses over 9 months will add up to another $18,174, i.e. housing, utilities, food, transportation, personal, books/supplies, and loan fees. This would bring the total COA to a nice, reasonable figure of $51,974 per year! I mean, who the hell doesn’t have $52K to drop on one year of “legal education”, right?!?!

However, if we want to provide a more accurate picture, we will need to show the projected living expenses over 12 months – because an actual student will have living expenses throughout the entire year. (I guess the school left this out, for $ome rea$on.) Since the school estimates that living expenses will be $15,174 over nine months, we can determine that living expenses will amount to $20,232 over the course of twelve months, i.e. $15,174/9 = $1686 per month. And we still need to add the $3000 per year for books and loan fees. That would make the true total COA to $57,032 for the upcoming school year.

Ranking: This school is ranked, by US News & World Report, as the 98th greatest law school in the United States – in a five-way tie for most corroded second tier sewer. What a great accomplishment, huh?! (I would put that feat on about the same level as a person finishing a local 5K in 98th place.) Well, at least this ranking merely puts the school on the cusp of being a third tier toilet. I am sure the students, faculty and alumni of this dump are proud to be part of “a top 100 law school.”

Employment Prospects: According to the Office of Career and Professional Development, “Within nine months of graduating, 96.98 percent (289 of 298) of the class of 2008 who were seeking employment were employed.” Yeah, sure you had 96.98% placement for the Class of 2008 – and Salma Hayek recently reported having multiple, exhilarating, mind-numbing, toe-curling uncontrollable orgasms 96.98 percent of the time she is around me.

Starting Salary Info: “Of the 213 graduates who reported their salary information, average private practice salary was $71,793 while the overall average salary was $63,761.”

Well, there seems to be a problem with these figures. You see, 147 graduates (allegedly) reported working in private practice. Of these, 71 report working in toiletlaw, i.e. firms of 2-10 lawyers. Plus, 12 more desperate souls decided to hang out their own shingles. In contrast, only 17 out of these 147 private attorneys are working in firms with more than 100 lawyers. UNLESS toiletlaw firms have suddenly become generous with respect to pay for new lawyers, these salary figures appear to be pure fiction.

Also, it looks like there were 318 graduates in 2008. Yet, only 213 responded to questions regarding their salary. This means that these figures are derived from 66.98% of the graduating class. Might the bottom 33.02 percent be too embarrassed to report their income to the Office of Career and Professional Development? “No problem! We’ll just report an average starting salary of $63,761, anyway.”

For $ome rea$on, the William Mitchell Commode of Law forgot to mention these other employers that also hire their JDs: Target, Mall of America, Whole Foods Market, Magers & Quinn Booksellers, Borders, Doubletree Guest Suites, the Grand Hotel Minneapolis, Plan B Coffeehouse, Allstate, and of course, Minneapolis Public Schools.

Here are some “nuggets of foolishness” from William Mitchell’s dean:

"[William Mitchell Commode of Law dean and president, Eric S.] Janus said all four Twin Cities schools are a “relative bargain” when compared to law schools on the east and west coasts, where tuition averages more than $40,000 a year.

Janus said it will give him pause when tuition hits $40,000 a year at William Mitchell."

It WILL give you pause?!?! Why doesn’t the fact that the total COA is hovering around $57K a year keep you up at night now? Oh, that’s right - $33,800 in tuition is a “relative bargain”. I almost forgot. Thanks for reminding me that this is a steal, Eric.

Conclusion: This school may be a slightly smaller piece of trash than the festering cesspools/law schools known as the University of St. Thomas and Hamline University. However, is it worth going $177K in debt for a law degree from the 98th best law school in the U.S.? If you are a Minnesota resident and you cannot get into law school at the University of Minnesota, then you need to consider another career. Or, you could keep your job, make some money, pay your bills, avoid taking on more student loan debt, earn a promotion and make some ACTUAL connections that can pay off for you down the road.


  1. These lying sacks of shit need to be put out of business

  2. I am a lawyer who graduated from one of the TTTTs profiled on this site. Fortunately I kept my "day job" at a waste management company. I must object to your recent use of pictures from landfills in you law school profiles -- it's offensive and denigrating to our landfills.

  3. But! I can point out at least 3 or 5 lawyers who went to William Mitchell that work for firms! So what? I know people who are over 6'6" but they don't play for the NBA. Correlation versus Causation kids.

    Keep on trucking nando.

  4. I agree wih above. These picture and comparisons are offensive to our landfills. (At least these companies pick up our trash and don't charge us $26K a year or promise us the sky)

  5. Nando, please go back to using toilet photos.

  6. Going back to the point I made in the post: 83 of the 147 in private practice are either working as solos or in toiletlaw firms of 2-10 attorneys. That represents just under 56.5 percent of those in private practice for William Mitchell's Class of 2008. In contrast, 17 out of 147 report working in firms of more than 100 lawyers. That is only 11.56% of those in private law firms.

    And, yet, we are supposed to believe that the average starting salary for those in private practice was $71,793?! The school sees fit to publish these figures, and the NALP and ABA simply go along for the ride. THIS IS REPREHENSIBLE CONDUCT! This shows CONCLUSIVELY that the law schools, the ABA, NALP and industry publications/tools do not give a damn about the outcomes of their students. They are more than happy to fleece ambitious, driven young people - and to sentence them to a life of debt servitude.

    This is deceitful, as lemmings are not familiar with the difficulties of getting paid on time - or at all - as a toiletlawyer or solo practitioner. Most are not aware that new solos typically lose money their first few years. Also, it seems that the going rate for a fresh toiletlawyer in the Midwest is about $31K-$45K. Apparently, William Mitchell grads are excelling upon graduation. Perhaps, those toiletlawyers simply did not report their income to the school's office of career and professional development. Or they did report their info, and the school did not list this (“Hey, things get misplaced all the time”) - or the school may have provided a "bump".

    Whatever it takes to increase that ranking, right? After all, it's not like the ABA requires these SELF-REPORTED figures to be put through an independent audit. And the ABA does not dole out any punishment to any of its member schools engaging in shady conduct.

  7. Just Wow. Nando - please put up a link somewhere on this website to all the TTTs you have profiled so far so that a person can easily read a particular school's profile if he so wishes. Will probably help with google search results also...

  8. I agree with the other poster regarding the use of landfill photographs. The rubbish depicted in the landfills at one time represented a USEFUL item(s). The law degrees given out like candy (EXPENSIVE candy I may add) from these TTT schools are USELESS. Bring back the photographs of toilets. My uncle is in the waste management business and I am sure he would be offended by his chosen profession being associated with these scam TTTs.

  9. Nando is on his Minnesota tour. Is the University of Minnesota next? If you went that route, that would be your highest ranked law school on TTR. I think it would defeat the spirit, though, since you rarely attack state schools.

  10. Good luck getting a job anywhere with this self-entitled, vindictive diatribe as your "cover letter" to potential employers.

    There are no guarantees in the old saying goes: "The only two certainties in life are death and taxes."

    And my favorite: "Life is hard...get a helmet."

  11. Nice to hear from the quaking OneL set. You'll be different, right?! Yes, yes, we know.

    Must chime in with the posters protesting the use of landfill pictures. My county has a very nice landfill that is clean, well-run, and beautifully organized and laid out, with a separate collection area for every type of disposable or recyclable you can imagine. In addition, the state uses compostable material gathered from said landfill to make top-quality garden compost that is then sold through small, local nurseries to local gardeners like me, allowing us to grow lovely vegetables and fruits in our own backyards.

    What on earth do these law schools produce that is one-tenth as useful, productive, all-around beneficial, and community-enhancing as this?

  12. @10:20, aka the peanut gallery

    I am sure your 3.4 GPA in 'political science' at Joe Blow College will translate into law school excellence.

    Maybe you should've worn a helmet more often. You might not have not ended up a stooge for industry.

  13. I have to thank the creator of this website for helping me "de-friend" an annoying neighbor that has pestered me over the years for free legal advice during barbecues and community events. It turns out that my neighbor's son is a junior at the local state college and surprise surprise, daddy wants his son to be a lawyer. Since I am a lawyer, my neighbor asks if I could talk to his son and give him advice on law school. Among many things, I referred my neighbor's son to this website and others of its ilk (inlcuding the law school carol youtube videos). Yesterday, my neighbor came to my house and asked me if I thought his son was stupid. I told him that I was simply trying to counter the false "rosy" outlook that folks associate the legal profession with. Well to make a long story short, my neighbor told me his son was was a deans list honoree and that he was definitely going to law school. He also told me to go to hell. Thank you Nando, your website put me in bad graces with my annoying prick of a neighbor. Hopefully he and his stubbornly stupid son won't address me ever again.

  14. My sister-in-law teaches at the ubiquitous turd known as the University of Phoenix. She also teaches a course at some garbage college in South Florida. She is a fervent believer in attaining higher education. However, even she is onto the law school racket.

    During a recent break, she asked some of her students what they planned to do with their education. A group of 5 or 6 students said they were going to law school. (I know law schools will accept Phoenix grads, by the way; I had a classmate at Third Tier Drake who did just this - in fact, he made law review.) She pointed out the shrinking lawyer market, and the fact that law schools pump out as many JDs as they can - WITHOUT regard to the job market. In her view, only one student out of that group has a realistic shot at practicing law - his family has donated lots of money to some middling law school, and his father runs his own law firm.

    Now, those students hate her. She has also referred some of those kids to this blog, as well as the other sites on my blogroll. Unlike my other sister-in-law - who thinks I am amazing, for some reason - this woman doesn't even like me that much. She was simply trying to help these lemmings from making a big six-figure mistake. What a bunch of ingrates! Yes, that includes you, the troll, at 10:20.

  15. 5:43 here, glad to see the support of our landfills. I wish I had looked at sites like this before I decided to start at TTT back in 2004. Law school was a tremendous waste. Graduated Cum Laude with a ton of inustry contacts and folks either were not interested, or the market was so bad they couldn't hire. Looking at where I am at now and where I probably would have been if I had left to go practice law, not getting hired was the best thing that could have happened (6 figures, a job I enjoy, and lots of lattitude is not such a bad place to be). Fortunately I had scholarships and tuition reimbursement to cover 75% of costs - but it was a lot of time away from my wife and kids, and stress in the household. I work with college students frequently and liberally bash the law school experience and prospects whenever the question comes up.

  16. This site is comical...keep telling yourself "the system" screwed you over!

  17. The only thing that's comical is all those naive 1Ls who think they'll be "different" than the people who post on this site.

    Instead of attacking Nando, why don't you address the substantive criticisms put out by this site?

  18. I went to law school during a time when getting a 44 on your LSAT (out of 48) gave you a legitimate shot at YHS. After practicing law for almost 20 years, I can tell you that going to law school in this day is a sucker's bet or a wealthy masochist's dream at best. I was fortunate to have attended a T30 law school at no expense (full fellowship) plus a stipend for expenses. I thought I was a hotshot student just like everyone of my classmates. I was determined to finish in the top 10%, law review, note published, etc. Right before I started my first year, a friend of the family, who happened to be a Biglaw partner, approached me and gave me the best advice and gift any law student could dream of. He told me, don't worry about getting the best grades or making law review. He told me as long as I held a 3.3 GPA after my first year, I would be hired as a summer associate at his firm for my 1L and 2L summers. My school had a B curve so getting a 3.3 GPA at the end of my first year wasn't that tough. While many kids endured a painful week during the write-on competition for law review, I remember getting sozzled while celebrating that I was working as a 1L summer associate at a Biglaw firm making $1,450 a week (think early '90s). The rest of my law school days I coasted and was eventually hired by another Biglaw firm before graduation. Many of my classmates had hang ups about not attending YHS or a top 10 school. In my mind I thought, prestige couldn't buy an 8 inch penis, student loan free and a Biglaw scenario. Make no mistake folks, I was incredibly lucky and I consider my career trajectory to be akin to winning the powerball lottery.

    Yet back then, even the unlucky ones were able to go into midlaw, government or go into solo practice. Heck, back in those days there was no tort reform or verbal threshold standards, meaning ambulance chasers could make bank on fender bender bullshit injuries. But times have changed (tort reform, verbal threshold, judgment caps, etc.). Now insurance companies fight you for ever nickle and dime. Now there are too many lawyers chasing after that lone ambulance. Not to mention the cost of a law school education is prohibitive these days. Remember, I didn't pay a dime for my law degree and truth be told, I don't think I would have attended law school if it hadn't been for the full ride fellowship. When I attended law school, there were under 175 accredited law schools. I believe there are over 200 today. Next month, 45,000 law graduates will join the legal profession. Unfortunately, only 25% of those graduates will be practicing attorneys. The other 75% will just wither away into some obscure dead end job while servicing a six figure debt. I cry for America's future and for these "gifted" law students who still believe a law degree is a golden ticket.

    I will say this, although this website comes off as bitter rantings of a dissatisfied law graduate, I see he is an ardent and compassionate chap that wants to help young folks avert a lifetime disaster. As a parent, I don't know if I would be more concerned if my child were speaking to a pedophile or a law school dean trying to "recruit" her.

    Lastly, I have never heard of many of the law schools mentioned on this site. Thus, as an employer who sees resumes on a weekly basis I would disregard any candidate that attended any of these unknown schools. That is all.

  19. @10:58 AM: @10:20, "aka the peanut gallery

    I am sure your 3.4 GPA in 'political science' at Joe Blow College will translate into law school excellence.

    Maybe you should've worn a helmet more often. You might not have not ended up a stooge for industry."

    Nice try--I did not major in poly sci, nor did I have a 3.4 UGPA. Care to fail at any more ASSumptions? Or would you like to try once more to construct an English sentence?

    IMO, this blog would be a lot more useful (and perhaps taken more seriously) if its author presented the facts in a less insulting, more educational manner. What he fails to realize is that there are many graduates of these schools practicing law or working in other fields who value the education they received. No doubt some have struggled to find work, especially recently; but for you to make it your personal mission to degrade the schools, ridicule alumni, and chastise prospective students, says more about your own personal shortcomings than it does about the legal education system. HTH.

  20. @6:06

    This blog mentions in almost every post that there's a "chance" you'll be one of the few that makes it.

    But what you fail to realize is that these schools fabricate their employment stats so that they can make tons of $$$.

    Why should they be given a free pass to perpetuate fraud? Because some of their graduates are doing well?

  21. @7:07

    But where is he attempting to discredit or refute the employment stats w/ any hard evidence? All I see are snarky rhetorical questions about where graduates are employed and contemptuous disbelief regarding salaries. And he exposes his own ignorance by scoffing at the likes of Target--obviously assuming that means a suburban retail store and not the corporate HQ, located in none other than Minneapolis along with a few others: 3M, Medtronic, Alliant TechSystems, Cargill, General Mills, Best Buy, UnitedHealth, Xcel Energy, Comcast, Ameriprise Financial, US Bank, Ecolab, Nash Finch...

  22. @7:41

    Who cares how many Fortune 500 companies are in Minneapolis? Unless they have a policy to hire local JDs by the boatload (and they don't) their presence won't make much of a dent in the city's legal market.

    As for your evidence: It's all over blogs like this one and jdunderground. Recent graduates are posting all the time about how the legal market is oversaturated and difficult to break into. Ignore them at your peril.

  23. @6:06/7:41,

    How is life in the William Mitchell College of Law admissions office treating you? The fact that law school administrators and "law professors" rake in $150K+ annually - BY SENTENCING THEIR STUDENTS TO A LIFETIME OF DEBT SERVITUDE and dismal job prospects - says VOLUMES about the law school industry's integrity, i.e. it has none.

    As Will pointed out, I have noted that there is a distant chance that students at this school will land Biglaw or otherwise good employment. However, that is the exception. Plus, you can say the same for most TTTs and TTTTs. If your kid could attend this school, but had to pay for it, would YOU recommend it? That is the true test of what you really think of this institution. (And don't take into consideration the tuition discount he would receive, as the son of a law school staff member.)

    Also, could you explain to us – in numbers, not obfuscation – how 83 out of 147 graduates from the Class of 2008 are working as solos, or in firms of 2-10 lawyers, but yet the average salary of “those in private practice” is $71,793?!?! This would be a decent salary in the Midwest. However, seeing that the total COA would be about $57K per year, even this is a bad investment.

    You see, there are these pesky online student debt calculators. Apparently, they feel that a person’s total student loan debt should be no higher than a person’s EXPECTED starting salary. So, let’s say someone graduate making $72K a year, but has $180K in total non-dischargeable student loan debt. Will that person be in better financial shape than someone making $45K but with only $20K in student loans?

    Here is what came up when I entered my figures:

    "Wow! You're borrowing a lot of money to pay for your college education. Maybe you should think about attending a less expensive college? A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary. If you borrow more than twice your expected starting salary you will find it extremely difficult to repay the debt."

    1. This site is clearly contemptuously out of spite. The best part is they still got your time and money, and they could care less about your gripes.I'm not in law school.. And you'll be glad to hear that I've done my research and agree with many facts as far as employment, debt, and value of a law degree from most lower ranked schools.. However!... I just have to say, dude you went to Drake.. I mean c'mon, you couldn't get much worse.. Even William Mitchell would have given you much better options. You can get into drake with less than a 140. My opinion, if you aren't smart enough to break 150 don't apply, and don't bitch when you waste your time and money in this market because you went Unranked

    2. Hello, waterhead.

      As you can see, Third Tier Drake is ranked 109th "best" by US "News" & World Report. In contrast, William MiTTTchell Commode of Law is rated as the 134th greatest, most phenomenal and amazing law school in the country., Bitch?!?! Or do I need to draw you a diagram with Crayola on posterboard? Third Tier Drake is a full 25 spots HIGHER than your precious trash pit.

      Also, cockroach: I did score higher than a 150 on the LSAT. I only took the test once. Furthermore, I received a full scholarship to attend law school - for all three years. That means that Third Tier Drake paid my entire tuition.

      Get a life, you pathetic piece of trash. And don't complain the next time your boyfriend penetrates your anus with his fist.

    3. I went to this school and while I had some fantastic teachers, overall the administration sucks. Technically, they have a career services but they are totally worthless. A friend went in there for help finding a job; they told her to look in the phone book. 10 years out, I have never made what they say the average starting salary is...

  24. Your Drake buddy got his MBA from Phoenix. I think his undergrad from Iowa. A little loosey goosey with the facts, huh Fernando? And he is practicing with a fine firm in Des Moines.

  25. Oh, Anonymous - 8:09 A.M., as representative of the type.

    Well played, sir! I'm assuming that you're posting a comment on this site because a) you are delusional and considering law school b) you're a proud alumni/employee of above mentioned institution c) you come in the spirit of anonymity to live out your fantasy of being either Statler & Waldorf via blog commenting.

    To tear down those who would ask simple questions, even if it sometimes reaches hyperbole in the heat of passion, is the same as putting out people's eyes and then reproaching them for their blindness.

    Although, you and anyone else who would like to vent are more than welcome to to anonymously post as many snarky and/or poorly formulated comments on any portion of my blog or in fact email them to me (because they often make me smile). I take the view that debate enriches and enhances any subject. Thanks!

  26. Good post. You hit the nail right on the head. If you can't get into the University of Minnesota, you should not go to law school in MN. Although "Billy" may have jumped to the 98th spot in the rankings, it has consistently been ranked as a TTT or TTTT for many years. The Minnesota market simply cannot take on more lawyers and this degree is not very portable. If you go to Billy, and you graduate below the top 10%, you will be competing with hundreds of other lawyers with the exact same degree for the 25-50 jobs that open up in MN every year. It's not worth it!

    Here is an extreme example of how bad things can be for MN lawyers. Although this guy went Hamline, his story tells you something about the MN market.

    "Jesperson has a law degree, but he's not putting it to much use these days -- except for representing himself early in his case. He works as a painter, and lives in a camper."

    ""The system's set up as such that most people -- people like myself -- cannot complete a professional degree without the help of student loans," Jesperson said. "Then, even if that profession doesn't work, even if things go wrong, there's no way out.""

  27. To 12:34,

    Yes, his undergrad was from the University of Iowa. The fact remains that he earned a Master’s degree from the University of Phoenix – and Drake Law School accepted him. The law school also saw fit to list his alma mater as the University of Phoenix, on the graduation brochure. That being said, he excelled at TTT Drake and deserves his success. Scott was also a nice person, and treated everyone with respect. In other words, he is not a snide troll like you.

    Pointing out that I forgot where this man went for his undergrad studies – while defending this sick industry – is akin to the following situation: Your neighbor, “Mr. Williams”, gets drunk every night and beats up his wife and kids; has a 16 year-old girlfriend; hasn’t paid his taxes in ten years; races his car down the road without regard to the safety of the neighborhood children; and is an overall nasty character. Yet, you excuse his behavior and flip out when your other neighbor, “Mr. Smith”, flicks his cigarette butt into the street.


    “More than 97% of students are employed 9 months after graduation.”

    Now *that* is playing loose with the facts. Do you understand that? Now, get some rest this weekend and prepare to have fun prosecuting the petty misdemeanor docket come Monday morning. Also, if TTT Drake is such a great school, how much money do you annually donate to the school’s coffers?

  28. U of MinnesoTTA is NOT a great alternative to any of these schools ITE. Yes, it is better than these TTT toilets, but 2/3 of the 3L class this year are JOBLESS, and even less of the 2Ls have any summer gigs or prospects for the coming year. UMN summer associates at big firms in town are getting no-offered, OCI is a disaster, and everyone outside of the tippy-top percentiles is screwed. I know plenty of top-quartile and law review students that are unemployed and despairing.

    To any prospective Minnesotan law student, JUST DON'T GO. The market is horrible, and Minnesota in particular has a massive glut of lawyers that continues to crowd out recent graduates. Even UMN has DOUBLED its tuition since 2005, and hit us with a 15% increase the past year alone. Law school is simply a losing propostion...I too thought "I would be different, I can get into the top quartile, etc." After striking out despite being in the top third, I was stupid enough to stick around. Let me repeat: EVEN STUDENTS WITH GREAT GRADES AND LAW REVIEW ARE VERY, VERY HARD UP AND UNEMPLOYED. If you do very well, you will still likely be screwed. Just do not go, if I can convince one of you prospective students to turn away and do something more fulfilling and less debt-crushing than law school, it will be a step in the right direction!

  29., actually jesperson graduated from lewis and clark law school, portland OR. read this story months ago.

  30. "He began law school at Hamline University School of Law in 1995, transferred to Lewis and Clark Law School in Portland, Ore., in 1997 and got his degree in 2000, according to court documents.

    Sober for several years, he passed the Minnesota bar on his first attempt in February 2002.

    Jesperson "borrowed heavily from government and private lenders" to finance his degrees, court documents state. Since passing the bar exam, he's never made more than $48,000 per year."

  31. the only thing worse than a 0L who won't do the homework is the 0L's non-lawyer parent who cannot give up the fantasy.

  32. "Kelly Obenauer [Assistant Director of Recruitment & Marketing, Northwestern Law] noted that some firms and law schools have online media staff (or work-study interns) dedicated to tracking message boards, posting comments, and making sure the institution’s reputation is protected." Elie Mystal (discussing Navigating Online Rumor Mills and Maintaining a Positive Image for Law Firms/Schools,a panel at the recent NALP conference).

    For the full story,

    TTT I wonder if Chris WheaTTTon was there? TTT

  33. What about getting a full-ride to William Mitchell?

  34. A couple questions: 1. If this blog's author thinks a true fraud has been committed, since you think you have such great data and evidence, then why not sue your school for breach of contract (or some other theory)?

    2. If this blog's author is so down and out on legal employment...then how about find a non-law job like the REST OF AMERICA works at every single day! Or better yet, MOVE OUT OF IOWA!!!

    I mean, c'mon, even someone with a H.S. degree can eek out $30k a year. Surely with all of your brains, you can figure something or not.

  35. Sue for breach of contract? Are you a first-year law student? Also, I work in a non-legal job, and moved out of Iowa nearly one year ago. You might want to try reading. That could come in handy - especially, if you have your heart set on becoming a lawyer.

  36. I immediately found work after I graduated, despite my bad grades. I left that firm the next year. Now, after two years on my own, I am making over 250k/yr. Imagine that, 28 years old and rolling in cash. Doesn't that make you jealous? I have money and you don't. Suck on that!

    Here is what sets Mitchell apart. We know how to sue people when we graduate. Sorry if your law school didn't prepare you for the real world, but mine did. I don't mean to put Drake Law down. They have many successful alumni, unlike this jackass. Nando, you can't blame law school for your mistakes.

    Anybody can find work with a degree from any law school. Nando is just one of the lazy few who would rather complain about how life has treated him unfair. BooHoo. Sounds like sour grapes.

    Go to law school if you know how to work hard. Otherwise don't. You will end up whiny looser like this guy.

    - I Am Better Than You!!!

  37. Hi cockroach, i.e. 6:03 pm. How are you doing today? By the way, go look in the mirror and you will know how to spell "loser" correctly. If you make $250K, then why are you posting here? And why are you unable to spell "loser"? Also, does anyone believe that someone with the “writing skills” of a middle school student is making that type of cash - short of turning tricks or working at daddy's place of business? Perhaps the latter would explain your haughty, know-it-all attitude, DESPITE your lack of intelligence.

    The reality is that legal practitioners earning that type of dough do not care about blogs like this. They simply could not care less. They might be too busy running a successful practice to even know that this blog exists. I apologize if you cannot accept the fact that William Mitchell College of Law is a festering dung pile. Maybe you should toughen up, and accept reality - although, this is not exactly your strong suit, simpleton.

    Also, I am employed. Hell, pretty much anyone with two arms and two legs can find a job. You act like taking on $160K in non-dischargeable student debt helps one find employment. There are PLENTY of JDs and licensed attorneys making $10-$15 an hour. Explain that situation, kid. Is it their fault that they weren’t born into the right family? Are they somehow worse than you because they did not have a rich parent to pay for everything?

    Look at the low and median figures for starting salaries for the Class of 2008 from your toilet. Do you see the median figure listed for government positions? It says $43,595, doesn’t it?

    Look under Salary Survey and view the judicial clerkship median salary of $42,000. Academic and public interest jobs have the same low median figure. Business and industry features a median starting salary of $55,000. But, YOU, illiterate cretin with bad grades, somehow manage to make $250K annually – two years out of this commode.

    According to the school’s own info, you would be the EXTREME exception. After all, the low for those in private practice was $20K, for your purported graduating class – with a median of $60K. For firms with 2-10 lawyers, those respective figures are $20K and $50K. Take some math courses, and, next time, try to cook up a more credible story.

  38. You should write a post for the University of Denver. Tuition is ridiculously high at $36,000/year!

  39. You're so cute! Did all of you not get very good grades as 1Ls? I graduated from WMCL last fall and I presently make $76,000. It's one of those local toiletlaw firms with only 12 attorneys and no offices on the coasts, but I'm feeling ok.

  40. @ 7:50,

    Do you see where USN&WR lists the average student indebtedness for William Mitchell Commode of Law Class of 2009 grads at $81,532? This document also shows that 96% of this graduating class from this sweltering toilet took out student loans for law school.

    You can also see from the main entry, where I noted that only 213 graduates – out of 318 - responded to questions regarding their salary. This means that these figures are derived from 66.98% of the graduating class. And the salary figures are still not that impressive.

    “A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary. If you borrow more than twice your expected starting salary you will find it extremely difficult to repay the debt.”

    You are simply feeding into the industry’s fraudulent line that anyone can make it if they simply apply themselves enough. Remember, political, family and business connections will trump “hard work” most of the time. You were fortunate. Instead of recognizing your circumstances for what they are, you act like a spoiled kid.

    The fact remains that you graduated from a festering, foul, despicable toilet – despite it being ranked as the 98th greatest, most amazing law school in the land. The place is a joke, and you know it. Perhaps, that is why you are so defensive about this commode.

    How many of your classmates are making $30K with $120K in student loans from this place? You have a moral obligation to tell prospective law students the following: “I went to WMCL and make $76K. I enjoy my job. However, I am *the exception* at this place. Most of my former classmates are earning significantly less than I do, and many are not working as attorneys.”

    Instead, I suppose you will continue to poison more young minds with the idea that attending this trash can is a great idea. If that is the case, then you truly are a tool and an imbecile.

  41. This is the same anonymous from June 17, 2010 11:08 AM. Nando, the law school system is designed to suck funds from people who aren't really cut out to be lawyers. If they didn't go to law school, the system would collapse. I'm sorry you were destined to be a feeder, but I'm glad that feeders exist. Can you imagine how much more expensive law school would have been for me if the people who landed in the lower 75% never went? Truly chilling.

    Tip: student debt does not discharge in bankruptcy, but you're fine if you get out of North America. All of the credits markets are completely independent internationally. So, if you move to Australia or the U.K., your debt can never follow you. Check it out.

  42. I agree with much of what has been said. The legal job market is such that if you don't get into a top-ranked law school or graduate from the top tenth of your class at a lesser-ranked school, law students should not stick it out until graduation. Judge your prospects after the first semester or first year. Don't worry what others might say about your quitting; it's better to correct a mistake (viz., going to law school) early than to stay on a career path that leads nowhere. Don't assume as I did that a J.D. gives you flexibility in the job market. This is the age of specialization, and a J.D. doesn't open many doors now.

  43. March 14, 2011 8:31 AM:

    Well put, 8:31. That is overall good advice. At a non-elite school, with the exceptions of connected kids, less-than-stellar First Year grades are good reason to get out of law school.

    There is no "prize" for sticking it out in a non-elite law program and crossing the finish line with a 2.1 GPA. The JD is NOT in demand in the non-law world with the exception of persons with previous valuable connections, contacts and experiences, which of course will not be the case for your average "straight-through" law student.

  44. In reading most of your replies, I am astounded by the cynicism and negativity that is so prevalent in younger members of our society. It is a symptom of the malaise that is eating away our society. You are truly a lost generation.

  45. To 10:11 am,

    That negativity is borne out of experience, common sense, and the ability to view things without blinders, bitch. We didn't come out of the womb, with a bad attitude.

    Hell, take a look at the world around you for a moment. Consider the terrible things that take place on a daily or hourly basis. If you cannot admit that the world has been a sick place for centuries, then you need to grow a brain stem.

    1. And you went to law school?

      Like I said, LOST.
      I pity you


    Hello, cockroach. How is life in Colorado Springs, CO, bitch?!

    It's sad that you keep trolling on this site, you piece of trash. You cannot stomach the message, but you keep coming back, dung beetle. By the way, the next time you catch your girlfriend - with her ankles on some other guy's shoulders - don't take out your frustration on random web sites.

    Visits: 6
    Unique ID: 2684282146
    IP address:
    Locale: Colorado Springs, CO, USA / English
    Platform: Safari 5.1 / Mac OS X / 1920x1080

    Visits by this user in the last 7 days

    May 11 2012 2:19pm 3 actions 7m 6s william mitchell college of law ranking
    May 11 2012 1:43pm 1 action 10s
    May 11 2012 1:31pm 1 action 10s william mitchell college of law ranking
    May 11 2012 11:09am 1 action 10s
    May 11 2012 10:21am 1 action 10s william mitchell college of law ranking
    May 11 2012 9:56am 1 action 10s william mitchell college of law ranking

    You are dismissed, loser. Enjoy the weekend alone, in your mother's basement, pathetic turd.

    1. Hahaha that's awesome... I didn't know you could do that.

  47. Some douchebag I know who is a total unrepentant narcissist and general tool, just started school at William Mitchell. Every time I flush the toilet, I'm reminded of where his smelly turd of a life is going. Karma is a bitch, thankfully :)

  48. I graduated from this shithole back in 2000 and like so many of my classmates never practiced law. It's a TTT for a reason.

  49. Nando, I agree with much of what you say after my own research.. I just have a question: my goal is to teach social/legal theory-type classes from a liberal perspective at the undergrad level. Obviously a JD would give a great background before going into a phd program (even not doing a phd).. What do you think about going to law school for this reason? I got a scholarship here and some other crap schools.. Just wondering what you think.

  50. This school is a steaming pile of shit. You can smell it from 20 miles away.

  51. William Mitchell grad here. I can assure you their employment figures are horse manure. 1) They don't tell you that around the time they send out the employment survey, they temporarily hire people. 2) As you noted about the salary portion, they only average those who report--what you should add, however, is that a small number of students survey actually respond, and that's what they base their employment number on--and guess who doesn't respond? Those who are unemployed or underemployed. Also, notice how they don't mention "Employed in the legal profession"? There's a good reason for that.

    Honestly, if we could just have some strict regulations on all law schools reporting these figures, we'd have a step up. First, they should be forced to report how many students respond to the surveys; and if they don't send surveys to every student, they should be forced to admit it and give a reason. Ditto for the average salary question. If only 33% of students respond and out of that 33%, 97% are employed after a year . . . do the match. And yes, they should be required to calculate a true cost of attendance. Luckily, I'm now actually employed full time--but it took seven years. And I graduated with honors (cum laude) in the top 21% (I really want to say 20% but that would be lying) of my class. And I did an internship at the Minnesota Appellate PD office. And an externship with Ramsey County. And I did enough volunteer work to be honored for that. And I had multiple Dean's List and CALI Awards. And I networked like crazy.

    Apologies for the necropost.

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