Thursday, May 20, 2010

Courtesy Flush: Creighton University School of Law




“The School offers a curriculum designed to produce ethical lawyers who will zealously and competently represent clients within the bounds of law and, at the same time, recognize their duty to improve society.”

[Now would be a good time to grab another roll of toilet paper]


Tuition: Full-time students attending Creighton Sewer of Law will be charged the the amount of $33,406 in tuition and fees for the 2009-2010 school year. I added the per-semester tuition figure with the per-semester SBA, technology and university fees – and multiplied by a factor of two. I did the same for the student health insurance premium, since it only covered six months and a student will presumably need 12 months coverage.

Total Cost of Attendance: The school also estimates that additional expenses, i.e. living allowance, travel, books/supplies, and parking, will amount to $16,156. That would bring the total cost of attendance for a full-time Creighton law student to $49,562 – for the upcoming school year.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+5

Ranking: U.S. News & World Report lists CreighTTTon in the tremendous third tier of American law schools. See where this toilet is located alphabetically right in front of Third Tier Drake? What a great accomplishment, huh?!

Employment Placement: According to the (alleged) School of Law Facts page, 92.5% of the JDs from the Class of 2008 were employed within 9 months of graduation.

We need to understand that the law schools, and their friends at the ABA and NALP, count employment as anything, i.e. unpaid internships, temporary employment, non-legal jobs, etc. If you work as a waitress at the Upstream Brewing Company in downtown Omaha, and report that to the school, guess what? For the purposes of the graduate survey, you are among the 92.5% of JDs employed within nine months of graduating from Creighton! The same goes if you are stocking the bar at Goodfellas Nightclub.

The main problem with this deceptive methodology is that prospective law students see a high employment rate and think that it is okay to take on more debt, because they will have a good chance at landing LEGAL employment. Yes, many pre-law students are desperate and want to get away from stocking shelves and changing oil. However, to take advantage of these young people - by providing deceptive info and false hope - is sickening, reprehensible and immoral. Many will simply end up with jobs that they could have done without a law degree. The ABA and the law schools are aware of this fact – but they persist in the lies, nonetheless. After all, reporting accurate figures would cut into their profits.

Starting Salary Info: The school, in its self-serving, SELF-REPORTED statistics also claims a mean starting salary of $63,754. For those in “private practice”, the school asserts a mean starting salary of $66,136. (Apparently, public sector jobs and non-legal jobs in Omaha do not differ much - in terms of pay - from those in private practice.) Of course, the school fails to produce one iota of proof to back up these assertions. Oh that’s right. The ABA and NALP do not require the schools to submit their figures to an independent audit! And lemmings will believe anything the schools say, anyway. So that means “no harm done”, right?!

“These 480 students are among the best in the nation. Drawn from over 40 states, 7 foreign countries and 165 undergraduate institutions, they move into judicial clerkships and jobs at top law firms in Omaha, Chicago, Denver, Houston, Kansas City and beyond.”

Upon graduation, CreighTTTon JDs also move into the parts department at AutoZone; shipping & receiving at SuperTarget; work the cash register at Home Depot; provide customer service and technical support – over the phones – to Cox Communications cable subscribers; and serve strawberry rhubarb pie and coffee at Village Inn. For the low annual price of $28,988 and three years of lost income, what more could you ask for? (Who knows – maybe some of these fantastic, i.e. “among the best in the nation”, students will catch a job lead – when they are serving apple pie a la mode to some local toiletlawyer or family court judge.)

“In 2009, the law school again hosted Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as he taught a supreme court seminar to second and third-year students.”

Ooh! Excuse me while I check my pulse. Honestly, who gives a damn about this seminar? I heard John G. Roberts speak at Third Tier Drake, during my third year. Did this help ANYONE land a single interview? Did anyone other than the biggest law nerds get excited over his visit?

Conclusion: If you are a Nebraska resident, and you cannot get into the University of Nebraska College of Law, then do not settle for this overpriced toilet. In-state tuition at this “top 100” law school – currently in a five-way tie for 93rd best law school in the United States – is a mere fraction of CreighTTTon’s cost of attendance. I guess Creighton University proudly continues the tradition of providing over-priced “Jesuit legal education” while strapping down its graduates with a lifetime of soul-crushing debt.

The reality is that attending and graduating from CreighTTTon Law School – absent some strong political, business or family connections – will NOT provide you with a decent chance at paying off your non-dischargeable student loan debt. In fact, attending this school will adversely affect the bulk of its students – as many will not find jobs that will allow them to reasonably pay back their debt. A person could EASILY take on an extra $135K in student loans to attend this dump. Although Creighton students tend to be arrogant loudmouths, who wants to see another 140 JDs flushed down the financial commode every year?

85 comments:

  1. How do you figure someone could end up with an additionl $135K in debt from this school? Tuition is only about $29,000 a year. Yeah, the law school is stingy with scholarships. From what my ls friends tell me, anyway. But the school has a solid reputation in Omaha. I am a littel surprised to see this school on your site.

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  2. Nando, this has become one of my favorite websites. Suggestion: aren't public law schools generally subject to public records laws? Couldn't data be uncovered at those institutions, such as response rate and contents of questionnaires that could then be compared to the number of people graduating? For the privates that won't work, unfortunately, but that still leaves a lot of possibilities. FYI, the Freedom of Information Act really applies to the federal government and not state institutions like universites. Each state has its own public records law. However, such laws are usually designed with non-attorneys in mind and there are undoubtedly helpful websites for each state, whether an interested non-profit or even governmental resources. I think you could get your hands on some hard data this way. E.g., this is how sports reporters are able to get a hold of how (public u.) coaches voted in the ranking polls. Remember how Colorado (?) put out realistic numbers and then "corrected" them? It's probably possible to find out which ones were right.

    Anyway, keep contributing to a better society. I appreciate your work.

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  3. ^crushing people's dream of attaining a legal education is bettering society how? We need more public interest lawyers, and attorneys who will seek after justice. Not less. This blog may mistakenly talk good people out of going to law school, which would further reduce the number of students that want to be public servants. Remember that lawyers should a duty to improve society. Law schools are here to teach you how to think like a lawyer, not how to be one. You guys seriously expect law schools to provide a positive outcome for you? It would be unfortunate is if 0Ls actually listen to this site's advice.

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  4. http://www.applyingtoschool.com/forms/lawsch-creighton.aspx

    This is what amounts to 'solid' career advice? Second paragraph states that because Creighton is in the third tier (out of 187 schools), it is a good school. Actually, third tier law schools are garbage. They exist solely because of the involvement of federal loans. If lemmings had to pay for their own education, out of their own savings, to attend these shitholes, the schools would go the way of the dodo.

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    Replies
    1. To be honest I don't think it matters what the "rank or tier" of law school is, no matter what law school you go to it all boils down to the connections you make and how well you do... I know a Harvard Law School Graduate that works in the admissions office of the University of Denver, where you go doesn't matter and the fact is that Creighton's Law alumni association is better than most and they will find jobs for their alma matter's graduates, and in my opinion, that is what is most important... it doesn't matter where you get your degree, what matters is what you do with it, and Creighton gives you the opportunity to display what you've learned, rankings are for the rich, the legacies, and those who have really pretty credentials! They are not for those who are motivated and passionate about the law and what it is supposed to stand for!

      Delete
  5. CU Undergrad, here is how the math works:

    $29,000/year for tuition PLUS about $16,000/year for books, materials, and your living expenses = $45,000/year. $45,000 * 3 years = $ 135,000.

    Unless you work a job while you are attending law school or live with your parents or are supported by a spouse, you're probably going to have to borrow money to cover your living expenses. Hence, you need to tack about $16,000/year onto the cost of your tuition. Living expenses add to the cost of obtaining all degrees and should alway be considered whenever anyone contemplates higher education.

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  6. I'm confused. Creighttton isn't a TTT, it's solidly TT. I thought this was THIRD Tier Reality. Am I missing something?

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  7. "I thought this was THIRD Tier Reality."

    Do you also object to Nando covering fourth tier schools? I mean seriously, a blog title is hardly a binding limitation on subject matter (not that there is some huge substantive difference between a Tier 2 and Tier 3 school, anyways).

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  8. “In 2009, the law school again hosted Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as he taught a supreme court seminar to second and third-year students.”

    Law schools love touting crap like this. I remember my school's career services office making a big deal about some federal judge meeting with students in the student lounge for what was essentially a meet-and-greet. With some random, no-name judge. Oh, how exciting! He stayed for about 15 minutes and left a toady/assistant behind to answer questions. I was studying in the lounge and watched fellow students, all dressed up, waste their time talking with this schmuck. I'm sure they gained a valuable contact in their job searches that went nowhere.

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    Replies
    1. Justice Thomas comes to Creighton usually about once a year ...sometimes to teach sometimes to talk. I think his wife went there and he's a huge husker fan. Justice Scalia was there a couple of years ago for a talk.

      Omaha if full of Creighton Lawyers. Of the 12 or so at my last jury duty, all but 4 were Creighton Law grads.

      Delete
  9. second poster here, responding to third poster shill:

    About 44k JD's are produced per year. 85% of them graduate with debt. 99.9% of them cannot afford to work for free. Did you know that the vast majority of funding for all legal aid society-type firms in the country is federally dispursed grants by what is called the Legal Services Corporation (LSC)? Did you know that LSC exists only as an annual appropriation and that many legislators vote to end its existence every year, which would result in every legal aid society-type firm shutting down in the country? This is the vast majority of public interest lawyers and they get paid extremely low salaries. The only solutions to the third poster's dilemma are: 1. increase the number of attorneys who can work for free; and 2. increase funding for the LSC. We could produce 100k JD's per year without altering the other two factors and not increase the number of public interest lawyers. Even if the LSC's money were instantly doubled and resulted in a crazy hiring spree of public interest lawyers this year at 30k/year salary, that would still leave 43,000 new JD's this year to be dealt with, then back to 44k the next and following years.

    Opening/keeping open toilet law schools will not create additional public interest lawyers. You offer a solution in search of a problem. Actual problems exist, like the lack of lawyers who have the funding, time and competency to handle the same matters that legal aid society-type firms handle for the most downtrodden of society. Toilet law schools do not contribute to solving that particular problem; actually, they add to it by creating additional clientele.

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  10. Maybe you could try to find that rare gem in the muck. I dare you to find a TTTT you can post something positive about.

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  11. Would you do a write up on Widener Law School, after all they are a 4th tier toilet with campuses in PA and DE. Even the only law school in DE is a shit hole. Maybe we will get Rehoboth Beach School of Law so all the folks from DE who cant get into Widener might have a place to go.

    Information in this blog is good, but surely someone can get info that shows where these law grads are actually working after school how much they make in legal and non legal positions.

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  12. 8:16 AM

    Thanks for promoting yet another industry lie - that PI jobs are given away like candy. Sure, there may be a lot of demand for free legal services (or free anything for that matter) but finding people to pay you to do legal work for the indigent isn't exactly easy.

    Even during good times, PI jobs could be harder to find than private sector positions. My 2TT had a LRP that gave students a grace period during which they could work in the private sector. Why? Because it usually took a while to actually find a PI job!

    In this economy all bets are off. Legal aid offices are turning away VOLUNTEERS and I was told that the local PD office was only considering top school grads because they had their pick of the litter. Good luck, TTT grads.

    Nando isn't destroying anybody's dreams. He's pointing out the nightmare that awaits most graduates particularly from non-elite institutions.

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  13. Midlaw partner here to say that although he has never seen what a Creighton law grad looks like, he is not interested in receiving any resumes from grads of this third tier wasteland. The closest you will ever see me spending money on Creighton is if it was somehow affiliated with Crate & Barrel. Kids, if you really want to be a lawyer that badly and live in penury, why not enroll at Concord and earn a JD while in the comfort of your own room/basement? You can take exams in your underwear rather than waste three years in cornhusker country.

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  14. Besides the false statistics, the "law school scam" is also propagated by the claim of there being an unmet need for legal services.

    Of course there is a huge unmet need for legal services. But the reasons for this are simple: 1. the great unmet need is persons with no ability to pay; and 2. there are virtually no attorneys who can work for free; compounded by 3. hardly anyone is willing to pay an attorney to do free work for others.

    What do the toilet schools advertise? The huge unmet need for legal services. This all plays into the false statistics on salaries and rates of employment. How could those other numbers be false when it is undeniable that there is such a huge unmet need? It is all a feedback loop to get students to pay T1 prices for a TT, TTT or TTTT.

    How many students are necessary to get a population big enough to find those willing and wanting to fill the few hundred per year openings available to actually do public interest work? Not 44k.

    Industry shills are not credible as being "pro public interest law." To gain credibility they would have to actually contribute to solving the problem, which would be funding public interest lawyer positions. Instead they use this very real issue as a sham to take money from many of those who would like to be a part of the solution.

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  15. @ 8:59 - Creighton Law School is definitely third tier, according to the USN&WR. I provided the link to the rankings in the text of this blog entry. It seems that this sewer of law has been ranked in the third tier consistently for several years now. Also, I have profiled second tier sewers, third tier commodes – such as CreighTTTon, and fourth tier pieces of trash on this blog.

    To 8:16, it is better to “crush people’s dreams” now than sit idly by while they have their financial futures crushed by a mountain of non-dischargeable, student loan debt. I suppose you think it is best for prospective law students to take the schools’ SELF-REPORTED employment and starting salary figures at face value.

    Anonymous #2, I am glad you enjoy the blog. The fact is I enjoy writing these entries more now than I did when I first started this site. Look for a new entry on Third Tier Drake next time.

    9:13, you are correct. Low-ranked law schools love to tout these events. It is embarrassing and CERTAINLY not worth spending $30K in yearly tuition. These schools prey on unsuspecting students, and put out misleading figures – for the purpose of attracting more applicants and students. If the ABA truly cared about “the profession” or young practitioners, it would put an end to this by requiring these schools to submit their statistics to an outside, independent audit.

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  16. love the site, but I would respect the information more if the blogger was actually someone who after spending three years of life in law school actually took the bar exam and was trying to find a legal job after he graduated and was having his own extended time of shitty luck trying to find a job.

    Even if it costs 2k to study and sit for the bar, how do you spend three years in law school, not try to become a licensed lawyer, and then bitch about the lack of job opportunities?

    Something is missing in that picture.

    Otherwise thanks for all you do.

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  17. Nando, just a suggestion. You may want to post the salaries of the charlatan deans of these schools so that prospective OLs get an idea of where their tuition dollars are really going.

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  18. Big Daddy Don BodineMay 20, 2010 at 7:26 PM

    Let's put to rest the criticism of Nando because he didn't sit for the bar exam. Plenty of people get the JD without taking the bar. Last I checked, this blog is a critique of law schools not bar prep courses.

    What's more, passing the bar and becoming an attorney decreases your odds of finding a job, period. It makes you completely radioactive in the pursuit of a non-legal job because employers do not want an unemployed, disgruntled lawyer working alongside the rank and file.

    Funny. The more misery I subjected myself to in trying to become an esteemed "attorney," the further down the hole I put myself as far as making a decent living.

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  19. I am a little averse to posting this on here, but here goes: Creighton LW'04. I earned solid grades and graduated in the top half of the class. No job offers, which means I had to pay for the bar and prep on my own. (Actually, my sister lent me some of the money so I could avoid a bar loan.)

    ANyway, I went out on my own. I took out some more loans and borrowed some more funds from family (including from an ex-girlfriend) so I could advertise. I purchased ad space on bus stop benches, a billboard for six months, and in the yellow pages. Guess what? I got one goddamn phone call off that board. One call! I now work in the insurance industry, making <50K. I am eating a bowl of ramen noodles (beef flavor, my fuckin' ass) as I write this.

    I handed out business cards in laundromats, to fellow church-goers, friends and total strangers. I did what I could to drum up business. In short, those people are now former friends. I volunteered my services even. And here I am posting on a blog that attempts to get the word out about the shitty legal profession. I cannot even imagine the hell recent CU Law grads are going through with the exorbitant tuition.

    It is tough to see someone beat the shit out of my alma mater, but it needed to be said. The school is nothing special. Oh yeah, fuck you to the people defending the law schools and the ABA. You are leading young people down the path of personal anguish and financial ruin. I cannot think of anything lower. Do humanity a huge favor and jump off a bridge.

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  20. Yes I agree. You need to cover Widener. They are the Thomas Cooley of the East coast. Nando, you are a crusader. You need to take this a step further. Law school deans are not trembling and shaking over these law school scam blogs. IN fact, they are laughing all the way to the bank as record amounts of law school applications are filed. Nando, you need to mobilize people to seek out their congressmen/women and senators. The only way to stop this madness (i.e., the proliferation of TTs, TTTs and TTTTs) is by cutting off the government guaranteed student loan funding. For example, if a law school has less than 90% bar passage rate, cut off federal loans to its students. If there is more than 5% student loan default rate (which is the real telling tale of employment after 9 months of graduation), cut the loan programs and close down the schools. These schools are all for profit. All this talk about public interest and service is BS. If that was the real goal, to place more defenders of justice on the street, then why not charge CUNY law rates (Less than $12K a year for in state and less than $20K a year for out of staters)? CUNY Law may be a TTTT but at least they don't anally rape its students and sentence them to debt servitude for life. If students got fucked over by these schools, they should demonstrate in front of the law school on the first day of 1L orientation. I am sure some 1Ls will get the message and withdraw before the first day and avoid a lifetime mistake. I am just saying, these blogs while commendable, are not enough.

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  21. @8:16 AM

    Are you really that naive?

    There are only two possible routes to doing public interest work:

    1) You get a biglaw job making six figures a year. As part of your employment, you are required to do some pro bono work to help with the firm's image. (I think the ABA also recommends doing pro bono but that's actually a disincentive for me. If they're for something, I'm automatically against it.)

    2) You get a job at a non-profit. The pay is obviously lower but you're doing meaningful work.

    Guess what? Both options are NOT easy to get. I'm amazed at how many 0Ls think that they can just "settle" for a public interest gig. What makes you think these non-profits will "settle" for you? They've got recent grads offering to work for free and laid-off associates offering to work for next-to-nothing.

    So does that mean you won't be able to help the poor? Of course not. Go out and offer free legal services and you'll find many takers. Granted you won't be able to pay for rent, food, etc. But that shouldn't be a problem, right?

    Oh yea, I left out government gigs. They're not easy to get either. Certainly a top agency like the Justice Department will not look favorably towards non-elite law schools.

    I'm not saying your intentions aren't noble (assuming of course you're not a shill for the cartel) but your perspective has no basis in reality.

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  22. http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_ED03000078.html

    "The median expected salary for a typical Dean of Law in the United States is $245,338. This basic market pricing report was prepared using our Certified Compensation Professionals' analysis of survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at employers of all sizes, industries and geographies."

    Look at the little graph below the text. Deans at the 25th percentile make $213,503 IN BASE SALARY! Those at the 75th percentile "earn" $284,442. These figures are as of November 2009.

    I know this does not address what the dean of CreighTTTon Sewer of Law makes in base yearly. But it does provide at least a glimmer of what law deans make, in this country.

    http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_salaryresults.asp?hdSearchByOption=0%2C+0&hdLocationOption=&hdKeyword=Dean+of+Law&hdJobCategory=ED01&hdNarrowDesc=Education&hdZipCode=&hdStateMetro=&hdGeoLocation=U.S.+National+Averages&hdCurrentPage=&hdViewAllRecords=&hdJobCode=ED03000078&hdJobTitle=Dean+of+Law&hdCurrentTab=3&hdZipCodePosted=&hdPaycheckCalc=&hdpageName=&hdOmniJobTitle=Dean+of+Law&hdOmniNarrowDesc=Education&op=salswz_psr&pagefrom=&hdOmniState=&hdOmniGeoLocation=U.S.+National+Averages&d50th=255866.9389&jobcounter=&countertype=&totaljoblistnum=&wsrcode=SW2&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&metrocode=&geometrocode=&zipcode=&jobcode=ED03000078&narrowcode=ED01&state=&statecode=&r=salswz_salresnxt_psr&educationcode1=&cmbEducation=&joblevelcode=&jobfamilycode=&IsGoCreateProfile=0&rdbLocationOption=0&txtZipCode=&hdNarrowDesc=&txtKeyword=Dean+of+Law

    Here is another chart from the same source, showing the total compensation, i.e. base salary, bonuses and benefits. This page shows that base salary is about 78% of total compensation for a law school dean. According to salary.com, the median annual total compensation for a law school dean - in the United States - is $327,912.

    Remember that figure when you see LEGIONS of unemployed law grads seeking to give away their services - and still not finding work.

    If the above figure seems far-fetched to some of you, take a look at this Baltimore Sun article from February 20, 2010:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/education/bal-md.audit20feb20,0,1787985.story

    "University payroll records show that [former dean of the University of Maryland School of Law, Karen H.] Rothenberg received a $350,000 payment on top of her base pay of $371,387 in fiscal 2007. Her total compensation that year was $787,387, up from $365,668 the previous year. The records also show research stipends of $30,000 in 2007, $20,000 in 2008 and $10,000 in 2009, which add up to the $60,000 described in the audit."

    Did you trolls see that?!?! She had a base salary of $371,387 in 2007 - and the school saw fit to give her an extra $416K in un-used sabbatical time plus summer stipends.

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  23. To Nando:
    I'm glad you brought back the toilets. I like them much better than the piles of dung.

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  24. Creighton Law School = trash. End of story. Do you kids want to end up like the 2004 grad? Times are worse now than they wre when he/she went to school. Im sure tuition was much lower then too.

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  25. Shouldn't geographic location of where you intend to work also be a factor in deciding where to go to law school? If you plan to work in California or NY, the median wages are higher than Nebraska. On the other hand, the bar exam is much tougher in NY and CA. Only 37% passed the recent CA Bar.
    http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10144&n=97760

    Of course the new grads will compete with unemployed grads with 3-5 years experience. The only chance would be to find a job in the federal government. State and County are not hiring due to budget deficits.

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  26. "Law schools are here to teach you how to think like a lawyer, not how to be one."

    Huh?

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  27. Lower tier law school is a microcosm of our liberal society. Give grants and scholarships and free stuff to minorities and watch the overall quality of the profession and the job opportunities go down.

    Dont blame the law schools, blame the mindset of society that gives stupid minorities the opportunity to go to school on the taxpayers nickel. These lower tier law schools need to be judged once this policy is eliminated and we see who will actually pay to go there knowing they have to pay back the loan at some point.

    Sincerely,
    A white guy who went to a 4th tier toilet 20 years ago, paid back his loans, has made a nice packet of money practicing, but WOULD NOT SUGGEST ANYONE GO TO LAW SCHOOL TODAY no matter how fucking rich I have gotten.

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  28. Great post. I attended Creighton Law School many, many years ago. Definitely one of the worst decisions I have ever made, and I am still traumatized by memories of some of the people in that place. Fortunately, I was able to get the heck out of Omaha and move on to bigger and better things, and trust me, it wasn't because of my Creighton law degree! Let me just say, if Creighton Law went out of business, I would buy every single temp attorney who reads your blog (and others like it) a drink.

    Please keep spreading the word that law school is a scam! And always keep this in mind - friends don't allow friends to attend Creighton!

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  29. LUSTY LARRY GIVES GOP TOILETMay 22, 2010 at 6:42 AM

    8:06,

    No matter how much money or wealth you attain, you will always be an ignorant knuckledragger and a bigot. Now go to your teabag rallies and blame impoverished 'minorities' for stealing your taxpayer dollars. Ignore the billions in govt subsidies that your government gave to private corporations with political connections. After all, Rush never tells you to scream about that.

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  30. Hmmm, sounds to me like 8:06 probably graduated from Creighton Law. Sounds like the elitist, racist, narrow-minded thinking of some of the folks there. I mean, really, what do you expect from a place that falls all over Clarence Thomas and would lick his balls if he wanted them to? (If you didn't know, Virginia Thomas graduated from Creighton Law but really who cares?)

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  31. http://www.creighton.edu/law/students/tuitionandfees/index.php

    For the 2010-2011 academic year, here is what I found on CreighTTTon’s website:

    Yearly tuition and fees totaling $33,406 for a full-time student. I added the per-semester tuition figure with the per-semester SBA, technology and university fees – and multiplied by a factor of two. I did the same for the student health insurance premium, since it only covered six months and a student will presumably need 12 months coverage.

    The school also estimates that additional expenses, i.e. living allowance, travel, books/supplies, and parking, will amount to $16,156. That would bring the TOTAL COST OF ATTENDANCE for a full-time Creighton law student to $49,562 – for the upcoming school year.

    @ 8:06, if you want to post racist comments here, at least do so under your name and a link to your website. The problem is not with grants and scholarships to “stupid minorities”. Plenty of minorities are also drowning in student loan debt, i.e. they are also on the hook for the costs of their education.

    Here are some of the actual problems: (a) government-backed loans leading to schools bumping up the cost of their product; (b) public financing leading to too many providers of higher education, i.e. everyone wants a piece of the action; (c) the ABA approving and accrediting too many law schools – this has led to a glut of lawyers in this country; (d) ABA-accredited law schools putting out false and misleading employment and starting salary figures – this causes MORE people to apply to and attend law school; (e) lack of oversight; (f) the ABA not requiring that its member schools submit their SELF-REPORTED employment and salary figures to an independent, outside audit – as part of the accreditation process; (g) the mindset in this country that EVERYONE should go to college – of course, this thought has been ingrained in our minds since early childhood; and (h) “law professors” – most of whom were incompetent, socially-inept lawyers – expecting to make $160K per year.

    While many law schools place too much emphasis on diversity – this is often a show, anyway – Creighton is known for having a lily-white campus. The school apparently does not even bother listing a breakdown, by gender or race, of its entering class. I do not want this thread to devolve into a heated debate on racial preferences/admissions policies. However, the fact remains that for DECADES people were denied access to higher education simply because of their ethnicity, race, or gender. Now, the cost is so high that many must go deep in the hole financially just to get the credential – most of their white counterparts must do the same.

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  32. "Creighton is known for having a lily-white campus."

    You couldn't have said it better, and trust me, they want to keep it that way. Only the white, the wealthy (or at least those perceived to be wealthy) and the connected are welcome there and made to feel at home. Of course, every once in a while, they will take a "token" minority - a racial minority (or lesbian)- under their wing and build this person up and help this person find a job in Biglaw so they can point to that person as a shining example that they "support" diversity. Barf. I thought I had suppressed some of my feelings of disgust about that place, but they are suddenly resurfacing, even after all these years. If Creighton Law shut its doors, the world would be a better place. The only thing I did learn there was that the mean-spirited, racist, hateful and privileged are rewarded and all others are ignored. WTF!

    ReplyDelete
  33. you deserve a nobel for this work. many people are so misinformed about law school. the law school industry has done a great job of protecting itself and its interests by creating a mystique. i think they did it by not talking about it. law is still an old boys'/family club. don't be a minority/female statistic for them OR for the banks. take out loans for worthwhile debt - entrepreneurial pursuits and such.

    on the housewives of new jersey, caroline's two sons are pursuing different "careers" - one son wants to open a stripper car wash chain. the other son is at fordham law school. just wait and see that fordham grad albie will be washing cars for little brother soon :)

    ReplyDelete
  34. I graduated law school in 1975 and went into private practice with a small firm. By 1980, I realized 2 things: law schools were graduating too many lawyers (that was 35 years ago, hello), and, there is essentially no middle class among the profession.

    Sorry it took so many people so long to learn that history repeats itself.

    ReplyDelete
  35. A question for Creighton or UNL Law grads. My son hopes to attend law school at UNL or Creighton in 2011--although my research this week has definitely given me pause about law school since his father and I won't be able to provide significant financial aid. He's spoken with several UNL JDs recently who tell him that his local hiring options will be better with a Creighton vs. UNL degree. Was that your experience? It seems counterintuitive since UNL is Tier II and Creighton Tier III. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  36. To: The anon Mom.

    I am a partner in a medium sized firm in the Omaha market. I am not a grad of either UNL or Creighton.

    Creighton law alumni are all over, and they do tend to 'take care of their own', but Creighton grads simply aren't as good as their Lincoln counterparts. We will not even interview a creighton grad. As for the bang for the buck, UNL is way ahead of creighton.

    That said, the advice on here that unless you get into a top 25-50 school, don't go, isn't bad advice. Further, go to the cheapest and best school you get into. Graduating from Illinois or Alabama (both top 30) with $75k debt is much better than Creighton with 150K. The Omaha market is available to a top 30 grad, but a Creighton grad that doesn't finish top 10 (not top 10%, top 10) won't get the time of day outside Omaha, and will have a heck of a time managing the debt on a CU salary.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Robin (a/k/a anon Mom)July 8, 2010 at 1:36 PM

    To: Anon Omaha-market partner

    Your answer to my UNL v Creighton question was just what we needed. The insights you supplied on questions I didn't know or think to ask are especially helpful. In fact, he had also considered then ruled out the University of Minnesota School of Law. That's back on the table now. Thank you and best wishes.

    ReplyDelete
  38. From the omaha market partner to Robin:

    Happy I could help. Good luck to you and your son.

    ReplyDelete
  39. A correction - the difference b/w second and third tier schools is that third tier schools don't complete the U.S. News surveys. Any school can get into the second tier, but a great number of schools would rather go without a ranking than take a number 93 ranking.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Thanks for the post! I almost feel bad for those suckers who do go to creighton.

    ReplyDelete
  41. I graduated from Creighton this May, was in the top half of my class, and had no problem finding a job in Kansas City. Granted, I am not making a ton of money, but unless you go work for BigLaw, you won't make a ton of money straight out of school anyway. Average starting salaries in the region for Biglaw grads in KC are 80-120k, in Omaha it is more like 65-90k. The truth is that most people don't work for Biglaw anyway, and those that do, usually don't after a few years. It is the equivalent of slave labor...

    Creighton isn't a bad school, and prettymuch any reputable source says the USNWR rankings are crap. At creighton we have an excellent trial program, arbitration program, and moot court program. The professors are great and we routinely have visits from Supreme Court justices due to one of the professors being good friends with Justice Thomas. We have had 4 visits from Supreme Court Justices in the past 3 years, and Justice Thomas teaches at the school for us every other year. Justice Scalia judged our moot court competition last year. Our school also has an excellent bar pass rate, AND WAS HIGHER THAN UNL this last year. 100% pass rate in IA, 97% in NE, and about 96% overall.

    It seems that the true complaint that this author has is the debt load and job prospects. The statistics you cited regarding employment % are false. Our career services dept. doesn't report employment unless you have a job in the legal field. I know because we have to fill out long ass employment surveys.

    Bottom line is this: Any private law school is going to cost a ton of money, and a school like Creighton is primarily regional. If you go to Creighton you will probably be staying in the Midwest and working in NE or IA, but we do have around 20% of our class go to places like Denver, Phoenix, Nevada, Kansas City, St. Louis, DC, and Salt Lake City. Be realistic about Creighton. Unless you are in the top 10%, you will probably graduate with 100-150k in debt with a job that pays between 40-90k a year.

    The real problem that I have with this blog is that you are judging a book by its cover. Just because it says t3 doesn't mean its a bad school. There are lots of great law schools that aren't in the USNWR top 100. The reality of a law school is that regardless of where you go, you will get out of it what you put into it.

    PS - All these posters failed to mention that in recent years rankings UNL was right next to creighton in t3. Food for thought.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "The statistics you cited regarding employment % are false. Our career services dept. doesn't report employment unless you have a job in the legal field. I know because we have to fill out long ass employment surveys."

    http://www.creighton.edu/law/aboutcreightonlaw/schooloflawfacts/index.php

    I cited the figures published by your precious law school. Creighton University Sewer of Law states that 92.5% of its Class of 2008 was employed within 9 months of graduation. It DOES NOT STATE that these are all legal jobs. If Creighton only lists those with legal positions, it would make it about the sole law school in the country that does so - as the NALP lists all types of employment.

    Student debt is a HUGE issue - as this debt is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Hence, if one owes $160K in loans, but only earns $40K per year - and many JDs and attorneys earn this amount - guess what? They still need to repay their massive student loans.

    Contrast this with gambling debts and people who purchase $400K homes on a $60K household income. These people can get a fresh start. Given, their credit will take a major hit. But at least, they will no longer be on the hook for their lavish expenses.

    http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi

    “A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary. If you borrow more than twice your expected starting salary you will find it extremely difficult to repay the debt.”

    1:58, why should universities and law schools be allowed to provide deceptive/manipulated/false statistics when the students are the ones who will be taking on ALL of the risk?!?! Lastly, Creighton Law is expensive, and it is stingy with its financial aid dollars. How the hell can a Jesuit institution of higher learning claim to be fulfilling a Christian mission, and then charge its students prohibitive levels of tuition?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  43. I'm an 07 Creighton grad. Had no problem whatsoever landing a great job out of law school at a regional law firm. Had a great experience and am fully confident that my degree will continue to serve me well throughout my career. The partner at a "medium-sized" Omaha law firm above is an elitist dolt. "We don't interview Creighton grads". Whatever. If you're with a "midlaw" firm in Omaha, you are not only recruiting and interviewing Creighton grads, you are thriving off of them. This is true at Baird Holm, Kutak Rock, Stinson Morrison, Husch Blackwell, Koley Jessen and any other large or "midlaw" firm in Omaha, idiot. Omaha is crawling with Creighton grads at every level of law firm in Omaha.

    To the original poster/organizer of this site: Identify yourself. Really easy to talk shit about people who have invested tens of thousands of dollars, and many years in these institutions you rip apart, but you don't even have the courage to identify your insecure, drop-out, unmotivated self. You're weak. And you're a coward. Your "stats" are BS too because you don't do any independent, hard research other than what you find on the net. Get off the couch and get a job. Or better yet, go back to school and actually apply yourself this time so you don't have to spew your bitter venom to any hack that will listen.

    ReplyDelete
  44. To the ultra-sensitive CreighTTTon grad above, i.e. October 18, 2010 6:44 pm:

    I did not drop out, moron. As you can see, I graduated from Third Tier Drake in 2009. Congratulations on graduating from Third Tier Creighton. I also have a job, douchebag. I landed a job right after graduation, and I did so with no help from my useless CDO. Maybe if you bothered to read more than one entry, you would have figured that out. I suppose you prefer to reach knee-jerk reactions like a hysterical woman.

    You defend this sick industry, and you have the nerve to call anyone a coward?! You are the weak one, apologist tool. It does not take ANY balls to defend moneyed interests – or those in power. (Do you also defend middle school kids who beat up on 4th graders, idiot?)

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2009/06/the-end-of-an-era-the-bi-modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html

    Hey, Stupid. Those stats come from the law schools and the NALP. Do yourself a favor and read William Henderson's bi-modal analysis of recent lawyer starting salaries. It might expand your little mind.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

    Also, check out this graph, borderline retarded 2007 Creighton Law grad. US News & World Report shows that the average indebtedness of 2009 CreighTTTon Law graduates who incurred law school debt was $110,036. And 79% of this class took out student loans for law school, idiot. (I know, you will “come back” and say, “These stats are BS.” As if your baseless, (willfully) ignorant opinion trumps figures reached by a magazine with the reputation of US News.)

    The school, in its SELF-REPORTED statistics also claims a mean starting salary of $63,754 for its Class of 2008 survey respondents. Why take out an additional $110K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a chance to earn $35K or $60K? Take a course in economics, idiot.

    Go change your tampon, and get back to me, kid. Actually, when you develop the balls, the brains and the backbone to back up your claims, you are welcome to return to this blog. Until then, you can crow about your little Creighton JD to yourself. You are welcome for the ass-whipping, by the way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous Poster on October 18, 2010 @ 6:44:

      "Identify yourself"

      Nando's response: he/she did not positively identify his/herself. he/she gave a long answer but failed to answer the simplest question.

      So here are a couple real simple questions. I am strangely curious to see if you can answer them accurately.

      1)Are you afraid to identify yourself?

      2)If you are not afraid, then why haven't you identified yourself?

      I expect a straight forward answer from you. It would be nice to know more about you....like your name and where you live. Of course, if you're scared for people to know those things then it makes sense that you won't be able to bring yourself to answer those simple questions.

      - Mitch Peterson
      Omaha, Nebraska

      Delete
  45. I went to Creighton as well and wish I hadn't.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Fordham Law Grads are courted, employed by, and are partners at every NYC Big Law Firm. I am not sure from where that car washing snipe emanates. Sounds like backbiting sour-grapes to me.

    ReplyDelete
  47. As a follow up to the previous post:

    TOP FIVE LAW SCHOOLS BY EMPLOYMENT IN EACH MAJOR US CITY (AS PER AMLAW):

    NEW YORK CITY

    1. NYU
    2. Columbia
    3. Fordham
    4. Harvard
    5. U Penn


    See:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vJRZQZqNR_I/TAfXV7hCNFI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/jCXk7PQ7oW0/s1600/Top5LawEmpUs.gif

    ReplyDelete
  48. I graduated from Chreighton Law in 1977. At the time, it was reasonably affordable, and a pretty good, if not great, law school. I had no trouble finding a job, and indeed had a choice among several, including several great gov't opportunities, including the justice Dept. I have worked for the Justice Dep't in one capacity or another for 34 years, and believe i owe much of my success to the education i got at Creighton.

    That said, I think the cost of legal education today is pretty close to prohibitive, unless one is absolutely sure that he or she cannot breathe but for the possibility of becoming a lawyer. My lower middle class parents were able to put me through law school with no debt on the other end. They could not do that today, and i could not do that today for my kids. I love Chreighton, and the education i got there, but to be realistic, if i had not graduated at the very top of my class, I am not sure things would have turned out the same for me.

    So I think if one is definitely commited to a life in the midwest, and if one can afford Creighton without incurring much debt, then it is a pretty good choice. And if you are genuinely gifted in the law stuff. Otherwise, I would not only not recommend Creighton....I am not sure i would recommend law....at all. There are just too few good jobs....Nursing school.....a much better option

    ReplyDelete
  49. @3:00

    douchebag, he went to seTTTon hall law, not fordham.asswipe

    ReplyDelete
  50. The only thing I've learned from reading the garbage here is that if I finish in the bottom of my class and struggle to find work I can always start a blog to dump all over the industry I failed in. Bottom line: the only people who give this site more then .5 seconds of their time are those who are interested in law school and those who are miserably bitter about how they underachieved. Don't let the latter fool you. This person rags on schools all over the country from his desk in Des Moines IA, yet if you walk into the Douglas County courthouse around 9am you can see all the young faces running around who are recent Creighton grads, I know because I live hear and I've held a PT job and an internship in the municipal building. I would feel safe saying my assertion holds true in other county courthouses across the country. Harvard and Yale can't fill all the jobs out there, so if you desire to be lawyer, go for it. As for any job, if your doing it simply for the money you're doing it for the wrong reason.

    ReplyDelete
  51. To the dung beetle who posted on June 17, 2011 at 7:03 am,

    Learn some basic sentence structure, bitch. By the way, your last sentence should start, "If you're doing it..."

    Also, reporters from legitimate news sources contact me for information on the law school cartel. How often do they contact you for data, cretin?!?! "Law professors" and lawyers contact for me info, as well. How often do they ask you for "facts"?!

    Law review articles that mention Third Tier Reality, dumbass:

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ftc_should_probe_law_schools_employment_stats_recent_grad_asserts/

    Footnote 64 cites TTR and the scam-blogs.

    http://mjlst.umn.edu/uploads/d3/21/d321a2fbd32797b62945a82256a0411a/121_jewel.pdf

    The entire article focuses on the scam-blogs, bitch. My blog is cited in footnotes 150, 157, 159-161, 179, 210-211.

    http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/research/JLPP/upload/CJP102-Macchiarola-Abraham-2.pdf

    TTR is cited in footnote 260, of this article in the Cornell Journal of Law and Public Policy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2

    NYT reporter David Segal wrote this indictment on the law school industry, back in January 2011.

    “Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”

    When is the last time YOU were quoted in the New York Times Sunday edition, bitch?!

    http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/07/29/best-of-the-blogs-4/

    Back on July 30, 2010 at 9:24 pm, Professor J. Gordon Hylton at Marquette Law School said the following, about Third Tier Reality:

    “For a thought-provoking (and sobering) blog devoted to the realities of legal education in the 21st century, one should check out Third Tier Reality

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2010/07/public-law-chool-alarie-univerity-of.html”

    Try doing some research BEFORE talking out of your ass, you piece of trash.

    ReplyDelete
  52. The premise of this website is baseless, defamatory nonsense.I graduated from Creighton School of Law in 1977 and have had a fine career. Creighton grads are found as partners in national law firms, federal judgeships and every other indicia of success.I know Creighton lawyers who are deemed by peers to be the very best in several major metro areas. are My legal education was first tier. The students were bright , enthusiastic and generally wonderful people. I have a deep emotional attachment to the University that only grows in time. Graduating from Creighton was an honor and one of the best decisions in my life. It is disheartning to see a great university disparaged by people who apparently expect a BMW and country club memebership to be awarded with the degree. Success is not guaranteed and doesn't come quickly. It requires a devotion to the Practice that is absent from these postings. Brian L. Campbell

    ReplyDelete
  53. Nando is a 4th tier human being who obviously did not finish in the top half of his class. Less than average doesn't corrleate with success in any profession or grad school. The diatribe against Creighton is entirely misplaced. There are mediocre law schools . CU is not among them.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Nando: Did one of the professors criticize your case summary? Grow up you little puke

    ReplyDelete
  55. http://www.whitfieldlaw.com/attorney_profiles/brian-l-campbell/

    Hello, Brian L. Campbell. How are you doing? Try not to have a stroke, when reading this accurate portrayal of your alma mater. Make sure that you have enough fiber in your diet, you old fart. Also, how is life in Des Moines/Clive? How many Creighton JDs did the Des Moines office of Whitfield & Eddy P.L.C. hire this year?

    By the way, bitch, the job market is nowhere what it was when you graduated from law school, in 1977.

    Do...you...understand...that?!?! Or would you prefer to BELIEVE that the odds facing a typical CreighTTTon grad are the same today as they were 34 years ago?! Anyone with an ounce of honesty or integrity will tell that the market has changed significantly, in that time. Also, tuition was MUCH lower when you were a law student!

    I recognize that you are busy kissing your corporate clients' asses all day long. However, simply because you are used to covering up the actions of your corporate clients does not mean that it is okay for a supposed “in$titution of higher learning” to provide a misleading picture of its students’ future success.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+6

    Also, try to step back from your "deep emotional attachment" to this dung heap - and keep in mind that Creighton University School of Law is now ranked as the 127th best law school in the country - according to USN&WR. If you are emotional and distraught over that fact, then you should talk to the administrators and ask them to improve the school’s TTT reputation.

    Lastly, learn how to type, Brian. Lawyers should be strong writers, correct?! Perhaps, you should dictate your irrational harangue to one of your secretaries next time.

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=38.108.132.130

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Jun 22 2011 10:58am 38.108.132.130 8 actions 14m 32s google.com creighton law 1977
    Jun 22 2011 6:56am 38.108.132.130 5 actions 13m 50s google.com creighton law 1977

    Was Wednesday a slow business day at Whitfield & Eddy, ass-clown?!?! From my Stats, I can see that you posted from Des Moines, IA. Anyone who comes across this thread can see that YOU were responsible for the June 22, 2011 comments, posted at 7:09 am, 11:07 am, and 11:11 am. On the last two comments, you did not have the balls to sign your name. (Maybe you are starting to suffer from testicular atrophy. If so, you want to have that checked out right away.) Try not to be so damn stupid the next time you post asinine garbage and personal attacks against someone.

    You are welcome for the lesson, dinosaur.

    ReplyDelete
  56. By the way, Brian L. Campbell, your precious third tier commode recently announced that it will reduce its incoming class size by 20 students - for each of the next four years. That is a step in the right direction. You should follow suit, and refrain from attacking people - especially when you don't have the gonads to do so under your true identity.

    http://www.omaha.com/article/20110620/NEWS01/706209935

    "LINCOLN — Too many lawyers. Too few jobs.

    A newly minted law degree is not turning out to be the passport to lucrative employment that aspiring lawyers expected when they signed up for law school and took on tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt.

    With the tight job market in mind, the Creighton University School of Law recently informed its alumni that it would be reducing its class size by 20 students for each of the next four years."

    Do you still feel that CreighTTTon Univer$iTTTy Sewer of Law is a top-notch law school?!?!

    "It is disheartning to see a great university disparaged by people who apparently expect a BMW and country club memebership to be awarded with the degree."

    Lastly, none of my classmates expected a BMW or country club membership. By the way, the word “membership” only has two e’s in it. Anyway that is an old line thrown out by Boomer bastards who have no argument and no facts, i.e. “You guys are entitled, and expect everything to be handed to you.”

    Watch me shove this baseless charge up your wrinkled ass. When YOU went to law school in Fall 1974, the job market was much different. Also, there are large firm partners and article III judges from second tier sewers, third tier commodes, and fourth tier trash pits. If you head over to their profiles, you will notice that NEARLY all of those men and women graduated from law school in the 1960s or 1970s. (Other exceptions had great business, family or political connections BEFORE entering law school.)

    The job market is much less forgiving today. For instance, many recent JDs who graduated in the top 10% - from their third tier school - cannot even land legal jobs. Biglaw firms will not even look at such grads, in the current market.

    The reality is this: most recent law grads would be happy to land a legal job - even if it paid $40K. As long as there was a chance at upward mobility, most JDs would take such positions. The fact is that many small law firms churn and burn through associates. If the young associate busts his ass, and has earned a promotion or raise, the old pigs in charge of the firm KNOW that they can force him to leave. When law schools continue to dump out 44,000 students per year, you will have lots of desperate attorneys to choose from.

    http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

    ReplyDelete
  57. Your profane, sophomoric rant against law schools and the profession are apparently based only upon your unsuccessful time in school. You don't have the perspective on legal education that years as a practicing attorney would provide. You have very fixed and unqualifying opinions on everything, without any experience . You make assumptions about how associates are treated by firms, without having hired a lawyer or worked as an associate. Your assumption that the job market in 77 was much better than today is based upon no personal experience or empirical data.

    You must have skipped legal writing and trial advocacy. Profane bomb throwing, photos of toilets/feces and ageist epithets persuade only an audience of your unfortunate peers. Brian Campbell

    ReplyDelete
  58. Ps Have you disclosed your identity? Your indignant, angry, generational hatred of "Boomer Bastards", such as myself, would carry more weight if you had the cajones to tell us your name punk.. do you feel lucky? BLC

    ReplyDelete
  59. Final posting. You may be irritating , but posting here is probably only feeding your damaged psyche Even absurd blogs such as this are addictive. Hope you mature , learn, grow and someday get into a career you enjoy. Best Wishes . BLC

    ReplyDelete
  60. http://dexknows.whitepages.com/search/Replay?search_id=11281402794408583024&lower=4&more_info=1&form_mode=opt_a

    Brian L Campbell
    home
    13200 Sunset Cir
    Clive, IA 50325-8803
    515-221-9108
    Age 60-64

    Hello, bitch. How are things in Clive, Iowa? How did you make it as a lawyer, when you cannot even look at the facts? I realize that you are used to getting on your knees, for your corporate criminal clients. However, at some point you need to look at the evidence.

    Answer me this one question, fossil/horse-face: did you even bother to look at the links I provided? Did you even peruse that brief Omaha World-Herald article, where it mentions that CreighTTTon is reducing incoming class sizes, because there are “too many lawyers“ and “too few jobs”?!?!

    In your blind, emotional defense of 127th ranked Creighton University Sewer of Law, you overlooked the fact that the school DOES NOT provide its recent graduates decent job prospects. Don’t have a stroke or aneurism, cockroach. Personally, I don’t care if you do - but I imagine your family would be grieved at your loss. Plus, you will likely be in a wooden coat sometime in the next 20 years anyway. (If you make it past this time, you will soon become mentally feeble - even more than you already are, Brian.) Enjoy life. It is sad to see someone who has done well for himself still act so insecure, just because he attended a toilet.

    By the way, ass-clown: Harry Callahan is a FICTIONAL movie character. And you don’t have a loaded .44 Magnum pointed at me, emotional midget. I am not surprised that you would use a quote from an actor, who is now 81 years old. Hell, he was middle-aged when “Dirty Harry” came out. The only thing dirty and hairy about you is your gray colon.

    If you choose to believe that the legal job market was not as saturated in 1977 as it is today, then you are beyond delusional. In fact, that makes you intellectually dishonest. (I guess you should not anything less from a trouser-sniffing, corporate defense lawyer.) Best wishes to you, on avoiding Alzheimer’s. Now get lost, bitch. Go walk into traffic.

    Lastly, if CreighTTTon Univer$iTTTy $chool of Law is ranked 127th - out of 194 schools ranked by US “News” & World Report - how is it not mediocre?!?! Surely, even a lawyer is not this bad at math. Do you have a different definition of “mediocre”?

    ReplyDelete
  61. If these old-timers really cared about "the profession" they would be calling for a revamping of the whole structure of law school: how they take in students, how they teach them, and how they place them.

    Right now, law school is nothing more than a lottery or crapshoot. These guys keep crowing about class rank, when the WHOLE POINT of the scamblogs is to warn kids of just that very phenomenon: to wit, if you don't have excellent class rank or real connections, attending one of these sewers is downright risky and even financially dangerous. It is. These asshats willfully support a "system" where the MAJORITY of grads don't stand a chance. Do medicine and dentistry do that? To get any kind of residency at all, do they have to be in the top 10 or 25 percent of their respective classes?

    I can't figure out how these folks who have supposedly been practicing so long cannot see this. Instead of waxing all nostalgic-like about their alma-mater, they shoud be pounding on the door demanding these schools stop pumping out LEGIONS more grads than the market will bear. Having JD's, hell, licensed attorneys serving lattes and/or living in their parents' basements does not do much for the prestige of the profession in the public's eyes.

    The greed of the Boomers has ruined so much in this country. Never has a generation been handed so much and in return made such a mess of everything. I am actually beginning to believe the country does not stand a chance until they march off the political stage. No wonder they can't even fix the budget, let alone end two unending wars! Remember when this selfish-assed generation was the anti-war crowd? WTF? What happened to that?

    It is now the generation sleepwalking through life, looking more estranged from reality than ever. Talk about wasted potential.

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  62. Creighton has a lot of nerve touting the fact that it produces "ethical" lawyers. The Director of its Werner Institute for Dispute Resolution plagiarized significant passages in a law review article and recently admitted doing so. He's been allowed to keep his job and for $30k a year you can be taught by this guy. Here's the website: http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/ohjdpr22&div=28&id=&page=

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    Replies
    1. OMG! I had Arthur Pearlstein for a mediation course at Creighton and he gave us EXCERPTS of that article for class--missing the plagiarized parts and the retraction and apology by Ohio State of course! WOW! I thought he was such a genius and that's how everybody treated him!

      Delete
    2. Haha--I had to deal with the Great Director at Creighton too but I could tell Pearlstein was full of crap. Didn't know about him being a plagiarist though (thought he was just a blow-hard!) I have to read that Ohio State law journal article now. Love this website, just found it. Wish it would get updated.

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  63. While I understand your concern and frustration, wouldn't you agree that Income based repayment options (IBR) as well as the 10 year public work loan forgiveness program largely alleviate the issue? I do agree that there should be more disclosure from all law schools and frankly I would like to see the ABA initiate a freeze on any new law school accreditations, but I also believe that law students enter law school knowing how much debt they are taking on, and should share some responsibility in making the choice to do so.

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  64. I went to a top tier law school and practiced several years in NYC. I never met (or even heard of) a Creighton grad while there. At my law school and at my firm we would often joke about the idiots that go to TTTs like Creighton because they will graduate with huge debt and have no job prospects. Unless you have a full ride and want to practice law in Omaha, there is no reason to attend Creighton.

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  65. I hired a lawyer from this shithole school a couple years ago and she was a fucking joke. The stupid bitch didn't know when the court date was and never prepared for the case. She started speaking in open court and stumbled in her speech all the while clearly being intimedated by the judge. The only reason I won was because the other party failed to show, yet the corupt judge (who had been suspended from the bench prior) still made us defend my actions. This worthless lawyer if you wanna call her that, claimed her parents knew the judge and that she would get it dropped before the hearing. Bottom line is this lawyer was a worthless joke who couldn't speak and was unethical to say the least. I HAD TO CALL THIS DUMB BITCH ABOUT COURT being held the next day. NEVER HIGHER GRADS FROM THIS SHITHOLE SCHOOL.

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  66. Never a dual moment Nando, keep up the good work.

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  67. Easy answer, right now the law field is overrun, unless you go to a top ten law school you're gonna have to finish in the top 10% of your school to be considered for a top paying position, and even if you accomplish both of those requirements, if you don't network properly, it doesn't matter, Creighton will give you a great education in law, but if you don't do better than your peers, have the connections, or the clout (self made or not), it doesn't matter where you go! Good luck and if you're passionate about learning the law, go for it, if you're looking for an alternative to not being able to find a job, try a more in demand field like nursing

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  68. I went to this school as a 1L and transferred. They have great faculty, especially in the core subjects. Comparable to the T1 school I transferred to.

    If you go here you will get a good education, plain and simple.

    However, if you are stupid, no amount of legal training will make you a good lawyer.

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  69. When I was considering law school, Creighton sent me an e-mail two weeks before their classes were to begin stating that they were still reviewing applications and if I applied I would receive an immediate decision. What? Why would I do that? I didn't even live anywhere near Omaha. They are clearly desperate to fill seats.

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  70. Creighton is a shit law school.

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  71. Creighton's law school is a trash heap. One that charges $33K a year now.

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  72. I graduated from this school PRIOR to the USNWR rankings and had/has a strong academic reputation. I had three solid job offers in 1990 It was the first law school to accept Jews without quotas. I owe my professional life to Creighton. Today, I am a Hearing Officer for a govt. agency and have a full practice.

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  73. 1986 Grad of CU Law. Practice out state. (GI)

    In 1986 Drake was a joke--All the kids from Iowa openly laughed at Drake. Drake kids would try and transfer to CU. My CU Iowa Benchmates say not much has changed, since then.

    Enjoyed the hell out of kicking UNL and Tier 1 Lawyers asses. Nothing but UNL grads around here. Still an Oddly arrogant bunch. I used to be married to one. Really lame, entitled lawyers mostly, except for a few motivated ones.

    It's also fun to watch the cold sweat of UNL Lawyers from Lincoln, when an Omaha CU Lawyer was in on the case. Definitely intimidated.!! Ha !
    You can actually talk to CU lawyers and out of state Lawyers and get something accomplished. But UNL ? Fergit it!

    The only exception is Mike Fenner--he is a royal DICK. We don't claim him.

    The price of Law school at UNL is ungodly high, for what they produce. Ditto, Creighton...except CU Lawyers know how to cut to the issues, relate to people, and practice Law.

    CU also has a better Bar Pass rate than UNL--Go Figure .

    From my perspective--any Lawyer trained after 2000 likely has a tweet or two "missing". Complete dumbshits. Gee, You can program your phone to call up your schedule, and read PDF's from some arcane site, and yet tweet how you can't find a job, etc..... ?? Whoo-hoo ---Well, Just Great....fancy fingers!

    How about looking someone in the eye, trying a case, relating to human beings, representing your client effectively, thinking and KNOWING SOME LAW ???

    Law is not a flipping video game, nerd-lips.

    Hello, Brian Campbell. How is Des Moines ? Brian worked out here for a while and is uniquely aware of the practice out here, and the experiences of CU lawyers outside Omaha.

    I concur with Brian 100 %

    Tweet this, you little prick.. "However, if you are stupid, no amount of legal training will make you a good lawyer.

    In a nutshell...

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  74. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  75. Wow!! I am appalled at how most people on here are talking to each other and about others. It's pretty disturbing, and I find it difficult to believe that any of you would say these things to each other's faces. Most of y'all are acting like 3rd graders. Thanks for a completely unhelpful blog. I think I will actually go speak with some people who are respectful and not hiding behind a keyboard

    - Jason

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  76. As a 0L looking into Nebraska or Creighton, I have to say, I found this blog (or whatever it is) to be full of the bitterness of failed law students and the pleasant sweetness of successful ones who both went to Creighton College of Law. In other words, it seems to me that in spite of what Nando thinks, it's not the arbitrary US News rankings that makes or breaks the lawyer, it's the student and lawyer. Some who went to Creighton made it, some did not. That's what I got out of this blog. It seems to me to be the way education goes in a competitive system. Nebraska seems to grade easier than Creighton, who weeds out about 25% of their class. I don't think the US News methodology works for Creighton, who admits many and lets the whole class compete only for about 25% to fail. It's a grind. US News favors the schools who pass most of their class. When you look at absolute numbers of those passing the Nebraska Bar exam, the two schools rival each other with about 88-100 students passing per year. That tells me that Nebraska and Creighton are comparable? It seems to me that you should go to the Law school that is less expensive for you. Give law school your best effort, if you do well, you will succeed at either place, if you can't get the hang of law, then you will fail coming from either place. If you're meant to be a lawyer, do it. If you're not meant to practice law, then don't. Go do something else. But many people don't seem to realize that law and business are not the same thing and many lawyers who could be good at representing and defending causes, may be awful at running and marketing their services as business entrepreneurs. That is an unfortunate fact of life.

    It's not so much the Law school rank. It is about the community of the school too. For some, Jesuits make the school more appealing to those of us who enjoy being Catholic. Thanks.

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  77. http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/06/no-help-wanted.html

    Back on June 25, 2012, Paul Campos - tenured law professor at the University of Colorado - touched on the Nebraska attorney job market. That piece was entitled "No help wanted." Take a look at more facts, idiot:

    "But wait. Per that same census, how many of those Chadron households could conceivably pay a lawyer some money for his or her services? A total of 323 of those households had an income of at least $75,000.

    And how many lawyers are there in Chadron anyway? According to the Nebraska bar association there are currently nine attorneys with active law licenses in good standing residing in Chadron. It's true that two of these are government attorneys, and three of the others do not list themselves as engaged in the private practice of law involving members drawn from the public (does membership in that category create certain obligations in regard to reporting liability insurance status?), but that still leaves four attorneys engaged in the private practice of law, or about one for every 80 households who might possibly be able and willing to pay a lawyer's bill, assuming they had some need for legal services that couldn't be filled by ordering a document from Legal Zoom or the like.

    It should give Dean Poser (a remarkable number of people in this business have names straight out of didactic 19th century novels) and Howard Olsen pause that three out of the seven licensed private attorneys residing in Chadron don't seem to be practicing law. Here's the real problem: the vast majority of people in Chadron can no more afford a lawyer than they can found a hedge fund. The median household income in the town is $29,000; nearly a third of its residents got some sort of cash public assistance -- mostly food stamps -- last year.

    Law school administrators are prone to talk about how the idea that there are too many lawyers in America can't be true, given that huge numbers of Americans who have a legitimate need for legal representation can't get such services. Once again, people who talk this way just don't want to do the math. What's the minimum revenue that a solo practitioner needs to collect in a year to have a viable business, even in a small town? $100,000? Where is that money going to come from? There are a few dozen families in Chadron who can afford to pay a lawyer. Few if any will need a lawyer this year, and those few that might will almost certainly choose to patronize one of the four private lawyers in town with active practices.

    Given all this, how much sense does it make to tell a law graduate to move halfway across the country, spend the time and money necessary to become eligible to practice law in another state, and then try to find a way to make a living in a small Nebraska town? There are plenty of Nebraska and Creighton grads trying and failing to do this as it is.

    The notion that the employment crisis for law school graduates is in any degree a product of the "fact" that graduates won't take "salaries starting in the low (!) to mid-five figures" because they're holding out for $160,000 big firm jobs is just another rationalization for charging lots of people lots of money to enter a profession which simply doesn't have any jobs for them, whether they're looking for those imaginary jobs in Washington DC or Chadron NE."

    Feel free to ignore the facts. It's your life. If you want to end up with insane levels of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a chance to make a paltry salary as a Nebraska attorney, then go ahead. See if the Jesuits will establish a charity to support you afterward.

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  78. The crybabies on here must not be very personable. After sucking 300 dicks, I received 3 crappy jobs offers upon graduation. Sucks to suck I guess. But it paid off for me.

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  79. University of Nebraska College of Law is nothing more than an affordable shit-hole, lots of toilet paper needed. UNL grads can't write or cite properly due to the shitty adjunct professor system, and the tenured professors are prone to regular unconscionable academic masturbation soaring far over the head of a 22 y/o. At UNL class rankings are determined by ADHD prescriptions, access to flash drives promoting cheating on the exam software, open book exams, and how well you or your family is liked by the dean(s). Creighton has problems, but UNL is not a better alternative.

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  80. Creighton wasted 3 years of my life. Finally passed the bar, no luck finding a decent job so I went into another field because I had no practical legal skills upon graduation (1988). Go to the law library and find our class composite. It doesn't exist. The students refused to sit for photos due to the way we were treated by faculty and staff. Now that my children are looking at post-graduate programs, I urge them to absolutely avoid Creighton. The attrition rate is astounding. Look it up,if it's available. I believe that it's one out of three.

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