Today, we are in Jacksonville exploring the private, independent dump heap known as Florida Coastal School of Law.
http://www.fcsl.edu/tuition
Tuition: To attend this fantastic, amazing, wondrous law school, a full-time student will pay $34,782 in tuition and fees for the 2010-2011 school year! Part-time students at FCSL will only pay $28,156 in tuition and fees for the same academic year. And who can’t scrape together $28K to attend this school on a part-time basis?!
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+7
Ranking: The cost is a bit high, but surely attending such an elite school will open up great opportunities for a law student, right?!?! Well, apparently U.S. News & World Report doesn’t think too highly of this institution. After all, they have this school listed in the fourth tier cesspool.
http://www.fcsl.edu/aboutus
Supposed Employment Statistics: Look – FCSL reports that 96.6% of its Class of 2007 was employed within nine months of graduation. This is a FULL 4.7 PERCENTAGE POINTS HIGHER than the “recent historical high” of 91.9 percent employment rate for the law school Class of 2007, as reported by NALP.
http://nalp.org/uploads/09SelectedFindingsPressRelease.pdf
So, how does a fourth tier piece of trash such as Florida Coastal Sewer of Law report a 96.6% employment rate when the OVERALL employment rate for Class of 2007 JDs was 91.9 percent?!?! How does that happen? Remember, the overall rate includes 150+ schools that are ranked higher than Fourth Tier Florida Coastal.
And before the shills point this out, the bar passage rate was 83% for July 2009 test takers who were graduates of Florida Coastal. However, as LEGIONS of recent lawyers can attest, bar passage DOES NOT equal legal employment.
https://www.fcsl.edu/sites/fcsl.edu/files/Web%20ERSS%20Charts.pdf
Now let’s take a look at the purported employment stats for the Class of 2009. The trash heap reports that the placement rate was 93.2 percent for this graduating class, i.e. “Coastal Law’s Class of 2009 graduates had an employment rate of 93.2% within 9 months of their graduation.” (Yeah, sure they did – and Jessica Alba came over and just dug her nails a quarter of an inch into my back.)
http://nalp.org/uploads/08SelectedFindings.pdf
However, the overall employment rate for the law school Class of 2009 – again according to NALP – was only 88.3%. So, this fourth tier pile of garbage reports a placement rate that is 4.9 PERCENTAGE POINTS HIGHER than the overall rate – which includes about 150 or so schools that are ranked/rated higher than it.
http://www.infilaw.com/schools.htm
As you can see, Florida Coastal Sewer of Law is owned by the for-profit Infilaw Corp. Let’s see who is on their “policy board”, shall we?
http://www.infilaw.com/policyboard.htm
Dennis Archer is a past president of that racketeer influenced and corrupt organization known as the American Bar Association; Rudy Hasl, dean of the Thomas Jefferson Sewer of Law – and former chair of the ABA section which oversees the law school accreditation process; Martha Walters Barnett “served” as former president of the ABA, a member of the ABA Board of Governors and former chair of the ABA House of Degenerates; and Robert K. Walsh, former chair of the following ABA sections: legal education and admissions to the bar, accreditation committee and the standards review committee.
At least, we see how this for-profit piece of dung received its accreditation. Then again, the ABA approves any building with running water, a few computers, a printer, some bookshelves and a couple of couches as a law school.
Conclusion: Florida Coastal Sewer of Law is engaging in deception. Most of the students will not have a realistic chance at practicing law in any meaningful sense. The school is a true piece of garbage that feeds off of the desperation of unemployed/marginally-employed college graduates – and the federally-backed student loan system – in order to make serious money.
The school and the “professors” DO NOT GIVE A DAMN what happens to their graduates upon graduation. They get paid up front, and so do their shareholders. You, the student and graduate, are left paying back the principle plus interest for the next 30 years.
One could easily end up $150K in the hole by attending this in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion of higher learning – with accompanying dismal job prospects. Yes, that sounds like quite a wise investment, doesn’t it?!?!
http://www.fcsl.edu/tuition
Tuition: To attend this fantastic, amazing, wondrous law school, a full-time student will pay $34,782 in tuition and fees for the 2010-2011 school year! Part-time students at FCSL will only pay $28,156 in tuition and fees for the same academic year. And who can’t scrape together $28K to attend this school on a part-time basis?!
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+7
Ranking: The cost is a bit high, but surely attending such an elite school will open up great opportunities for a law student, right?!?! Well, apparently U.S. News & World Report doesn’t think too highly of this institution. After all, they have this school listed in the fourth tier cesspool.
http://www.fcsl.edu/aboutus
Supposed Employment Statistics: Look – FCSL reports that 96.6% of its Class of 2007 was employed within nine months of graduation. This is a FULL 4.7 PERCENTAGE POINTS HIGHER than the “recent historical high” of 91.9 percent employment rate for the law school Class of 2007, as reported by NALP.
http://nalp.org/uploads/09SelectedFindingsPressRelease.pdf
So, how does a fourth tier piece of trash such as Florida Coastal Sewer of Law report a 96.6% employment rate when the OVERALL employment rate for Class of 2007 JDs was 91.9 percent?!?! How does that happen? Remember, the overall rate includes 150+ schools that are ranked higher than Fourth Tier Florida Coastal.
And before the shills point this out, the bar passage rate was 83% for July 2009 test takers who were graduates of Florida Coastal. However, as LEGIONS of recent lawyers can attest, bar passage DOES NOT equal legal employment.
https://www.fcsl.edu/sites/fcsl.edu/files/Web%20ERSS%20Charts.pdf
Now let’s take a look at the purported employment stats for the Class of 2009. The trash heap reports that the placement rate was 93.2 percent for this graduating class, i.e. “Coastal Law’s Class of 2009 graduates had an employment rate of 93.2% within 9 months of their graduation.” (Yeah, sure they did – and Jessica Alba came over and just dug her nails a quarter of an inch into my back.)
http://nalp.org/uploads/08SelectedFindings.pdf
However, the overall employment rate for the law school Class of 2009 – again according to NALP – was only 88.3%. So, this fourth tier pile of garbage reports a placement rate that is 4.9 PERCENTAGE POINTS HIGHER than the overall rate – which includes about 150 or so schools that are ranked/rated higher than it.
http://www.infilaw.com/schools.htm
As you can see, Florida Coastal Sewer of Law is owned by the for-profit Infilaw Corp. Let’s see who is on their “policy board”, shall we?
http://www.infilaw.com/policyboard.htm
Dennis Archer is a past president of that racketeer influenced and corrupt organization known as the American Bar Association; Rudy Hasl, dean of the Thomas Jefferson Sewer of Law – and former chair of the ABA section which oversees the law school accreditation process; Martha Walters Barnett “served” as former president of the ABA, a member of the ABA Board of Governors and former chair of the ABA House of Degenerates; and Robert K. Walsh, former chair of the following ABA sections: legal education and admissions to the bar, accreditation committee and the standards review committee.
At least, we see how this for-profit piece of dung received its accreditation. Then again, the ABA approves any building with running water, a few computers, a printer, some bookshelves and a couple of couches as a law school.
Conclusion: Florida Coastal Sewer of Law is engaging in deception. Most of the students will not have a realistic chance at practicing law in any meaningful sense. The school is a true piece of garbage that feeds off of the desperation of unemployed/marginally-employed college graduates – and the federally-backed student loan system – in order to make serious money.
The school and the “professors” DO NOT GIVE A DAMN what happens to their graduates upon graduation. They get paid up front, and so do their shareholders. You, the student and graduate, are left paying back the principle plus interest for the next 30 years.
One could easily end up $150K in the hole by attending this in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion of higher learning – with accompanying dismal job prospects. Yes, that sounds like quite a wise investment, doesn’t it?!?!
Look who else is on the board: the co-founder and fmr COO of the Ritz Carlton; and we also have a senior VP and general counsel for AAA. Evidently, these businessmen see law schools as a profitable venture. And they were able to get four former ABA heavies (or thugs) to help them get this thing off the ground. It pays to have friends in high places. And isn’t it nice that our federal tax dollars can go toward this noble cause?
ReplyDeleteNando, you can't put a price tag on what it must of felt for the FCLS moot court team that beat Harvard earlier this year at some "respected" national competition.
ReplyDeletehttp://jacksonville.com/news/metro/schools/2010-02-16/story/jacksonville_law_students_gain_national_respect_in_courtroom_com
I am sure those students will be telling the story of how they "invested" $150K in student loans to get a FCLS JD but point out that the highlight of their lives was to beat Harvard. I can see the FCLS grad interview now:
Interviewer: What would you say is the most meaningful accomplishment in your life?
FCLS Grad: I was a member of the moot court team that beat Harvard in the finals of a prestigious national competition.
Interviewer: Impressive.
FCLS Grad: So does that mean I get the job?
Interviewer: Unfortunately we have too many T14 applicants applying for the same job and their applications will receive more favorable review.
FCLS Grad: But I just told you I beat Harvard Law School.
Interviewer: What are you still doing here?
I just took the LSAT in June and was researching schools when I came across your blog. Reading your blog, and several others that convey a similar sentiment toward the scam that is law school, has left me undoubtedly depressed. You, and all the others, have honestly made reconsider whether the benefits of going to law school exceed the costs. This is true especially in light of the fact that I will probably be attending a tier 2 or 3 school. I have no idea what to do now. This is an existential nightmare.
ReplyDeleteAfter I bombed the LSAT, these fucking bastards refused to stop e-mailing me about supposed scholarships. Right up to the week before class started, they claimed I could come start law school there.
ReplyDeleteI went to the link posted above by second anon. Look at how the shills go after someone who simply pointed out that Coastal grads are not very competent attorneys. (He also notes that they are products of a for-profit law school.)
ReplyDeleteSome of the comments from the enlightened Coastal fans:
jjsnjax
By BrianRowland | 02/17/10 - 07:20
JJSNJAX:
First thing, you have never met me.
Second, I believe "Interestedparty" above, is correct regarding your state of envy. Lousy lawyers come from every law school, and generally, so do good ones. Your comments are truly unfounded and are certainly not welcomed. FCSL has become a major asset to the community, and much like the arrival of the NFL, signals Jacksonville's coming of age.
You may now return to your cave.
jjsnjax
By Motherof4kids | 02/17/10 - 01:21
What a shame that jjsnjax is unable to participate in the success of these hard working students and instructors. I am unaware of whether or not jjsnjax knows what a moot court competition entails but the work that goes into preparation is phenomenol. Then to think that a smaller school has students of such high caliber that they are able to "hold their own" against, and in some cases beat, the "real law school" students is something in which all Jacksonville residents should take pride.
These Coastal grads cannot accept reality. They honestly believe this moot court victory will make the school better. How sad. Oh well, Harvard JDs will still get the jobs and the fourth tier JDs will still end up mopping floors at Applebee’s.
how is it that they have a bar pass rate in the low 80's but employment in the high 90's. I don't get that unless non-legal employment or paralegal employment is included. something smells fishy!!!
ReplyDeleteIs there any TTT(T)s that are worthwhile? Are some better than others? (They all seem to cost about the same amount.) Or is there a consensus that they all pretty much rip offs if paying full price?
ReplyDeletePat Brazill:
ReplyDeleteYou should read the scam bloggers and get their perspective. You should also consider the other side of the argument. You may want to email random lawyers, tell them your situation, and ask for an informational interview. You may want to consider state schools which are much cheaper. If you're not going to a big law firm, there's not enough difference between the different TTTs so you may as well go to the cheapest.
Nobody knows when the recession will be over. It may very well have ended by the time
I generally leave truly affordable law schools alone – regardless of rank. If the student can live with parents or other family members, he can also limit his living expenses.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nccu.edu/formsdocs/proxy.cfm?file_id=894
For instance, look at North Carolina Central University. The school is a true fourth tier dump. However, tuition for one year – for an in-state resident – amounts to $7,063. With fees added in, this figure comes out to $9526.50. This information is from page 9 of this PDF file. Even for a non-resident, tuition and fees are not terrible. However, I NEVER recommend these dumps for out-of-state students.
Why would I waste my time beating the hell out of a school like this? I also typically avoid commenting on law schools that are very cheap and geared towards working adults. The students are able to work – and perhaps some of them will receive help paying their tuition, from their employers. While not likely, it is at least a possibility.
If a person is intent on going to law school, at least they can (potentially) earn a law degree for under $40K – by attending a school such as North Carolina Central. (This figure does not take opportunity costs into account. Also, I certainly would not recommend such a school, if someone is earning a decent income.)
In the end, the applicant/potential law student SHOULD LOOK AT LAW SCHOOL SOLELY AS AN ECONOMIC DECISION. And people generally want a positive return on their investment, do they not? (I know shills like Jack CriTTenden, at NaTTTional Juri$TTT, would prefer if we looked at this as an intellectual pursuit.)
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/nationaljurist0210/#/6/OnePage
Nando, your blog is a perfect example of the greatness of the internet.
ReplyDeletehttp://firsttiertoilet.blogspot.com/2010/06/do-0ls-listen-to-us-or-to-education.html
"Then again, the ABA approves any building with running water, a few computers, a printer, some bookshelves and a couple of couches as a law school."
ReplyDeleteI thought you also needed a fax machine.
If the kids on the moot court team that beat Harvard can't land jobs, I am sure they can sell the rights to their story to a network that will make a TV movie of the week. The name of the movie could be: "Against All Tides: The Day Florida Coastal Slayed the Harvard Crimson."
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps those students can open an animal rights law firm that specializes in representing canines and felines. After all, the moot court competition that Florida Coastal beat Harvard at was about animal rights. Yes, I can see those wealthy dogs (the ones we read about in stories where a deceased wealthy robber baroness leaves her entire estate to) going to a Florida Coastal law grad and bark "I heard you guys beat Harvard and are the top notch animal rights law firm in Seminole country. I want you to take my case. You see my caretaker doesn't feed me fancy kibble and instead gives me cheap Alpo. Please take my case. I can pay you in dog biscuits or treats since the trustee for my estate won't disburse fees for toilet lawyers."
Found a nugget for you guys.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.stateuniversity.com/universities/FL/Florida_Coastal_School_of_Law.html
"The long-term results of the endeavor of a for-profit law school have yet to be realized, but in the meantime, Florida Coastal graduates have had little trouble making their place in the legal world."
BWAHAHAH! Did the mother of a Coastal grad write this bullshit?
http://www.city-data.com/forum/jacksonville/592815-florida-coastal-school-law-should-i.html
"Should I go?"
The answer is, how should I put this, "Hell to the no."
Some more shit to heap on this school:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/where-should-i-go-next-fall/florida-coastal-school-of-law/msg5373557/?PHPSESSID=3458a7341d8b3712b353f9c63918fcc6
Just read the comments from LSD kids that try to prop up this barely-accredited shithole by saying things like: Law school is law school and at the end of the day if you graduate and pass the bar from an ABA school you will have some options. Someone else wrote that law school is what you make of it.
As I have warned before, I think ALL jobs are going to disappear. NOBODY will work. Ever. Again. And we will all stay at home and bitch and moan.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to Planet Nando.
Again Tyson,
ReplyDeleteWhy do u visit this blog? If you were truly a disinterested party who had no connection to the legal / higher education industries, you wouldn't waste your time. Something about this blog threatens you. Why are you here? What drives you? I think you are either: 1) a jackass 0L who doesn't want to be talked out of his dreams; 2) an employee at a law school, LSAT, or bar prep company; or 3) or just a miserable troll.
There's one thing that you are that isn't a mystery: an idiot.
Love,
Recent Graduate from a Shithole
Tyson,
ReplyDeleteTroll harder nigger.
Besos
@5:14,
ReplyDeletePlease do not use that word on this site – unless, of course, you want me to publish your IP address.
To those mentioning that the school’s job placement rate is much higher than the bar passage rate for its recent graduates, look at this link again:
https://www.fcsl.edu/sites/fcsl.edu/files/Web%20ERSS%20Charts.pdf
“A full 94.1% of our Class of 2009 employed graduates’ jobs were JD required, JD preferred or other professional jobs.”
The commode tries to cover up that deficit by pointing to the purported number of Florida Coastal JDs in jobs where a JD was required, where a JD was preferred, and other professional jobs. (Hell, "professional jobs" might include manager at McDonald’s.) Notice that this does not infer jobs where BAR PASSAGE was required? This is just one of the games these diploma mills/profit centers play – in order to attract more applicants and students.
But the ABA saw fit to accredit this piece of garbage, anyway. Does anyone – other than Tyson – think, for a second, that the law schools have the best interests of their students at heart?
Geez what a waste of time this is. Get off your computer and exercise or something.
ReplyDelete^such a waste of time, you saw fit to post a comment here.
ReplyDeleteThe number of $hitty law $chool$ is incredible!
ReplyDeleteFrontline did an interesting report on for profit universities here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/frontline-for-profit-coll_n_564585.html
ReplyDeleteIt didn't discuss TTT law schools specifically, but is completeley relevant to what you're writing about.
The Florida Coastal School of Law is a piece of fucking garbage and that's the bottom line 'cause Stone Cold said so!
ReplyDeleteI've interned a couple entities where they hire a LOT of lawyers in some pretty important positions, but their actual duties aren't exclusively legal. There's a TON of these jobs out there that are mostly general business dealings, but the law is an incidental component. Because of the legal component, the employers prefer to hire lawyers for these "qausi-legal" jobs. They pay well too.
ReplyDelete@6:10
ReplyDeleteCan you name one of these "entities" or did you just make that up?
Anyone ever hear that phrase, "a lawyer's time is his money?" Well, it hasn't changed. Basically, you STILL won't find any lawyers who aren't pressed for every minute.
ReplyDelete...Now, considering this, does it even make an ounce of sense that some licensed lawyers are maxed to the bone, while other lawyers have nothing at all to do? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. THIS BLOG IS BOGUS!!!
@July 1, 9:31pm: Who cares!!!!? I am not an industry "shill" or a 0L, or any of that. BUT EVEN IF I WAS, IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE SUBSTANCE OF MY ARGUMENTS!! Nor should it affect your ability to counter them.
ReplyDeleteI post because I disagree with the creator of the blog. It's just my view. I am not 100% correct in every case, but I am just merely presenting an opposing view.
Earlier, I said "this blog is bogus." I retract that. I simply meant that I find the substance of this blog unpersuasive.
"I simply meant that I find the substance of this blog unpersuasive."
ReplyDelete$50,000 PER YEAR FOR 3 YEARS AND THEN YOU'RE OUT ON YOUR ASS. $150,000 of debt that will NEVER GO AWAY. $1,600 loan payment EVERY MONTH.
how is that not persuasive?
at PAT BRAZILL:
it's not that bad of an existential crisis. and even if it is, it's nowhere near as bad as the existential crisis that will come in 3 years once you've been spit out of the higher education industrial complex.
The kicker for Info law is they trick their applicants into believing they will save money because they are special and have a scholarship, the catch is that you have to earn a 3.0 or greater to keep the scholarship, sound easy, not if only 20% are capable of making above a 3.0 in the first year. The curve for 1Ls attending an Info law institution is around 2.5 or less. The teachers that come from other institution will tell you that info law wants them to grade hard the first year, harder than they graded at their former school. Therefore, you have no chance in keeping your scholarship and your GPA is crap which bars you from transferring. Stay far away from Info Law.
ReplyDeletewhy does anyone who decides to "report" what we all already know (FCSL is expensive, for-profit, 4th tier) become some brave and independent voice trying to inform all of us against, you know who, The big, bad, scary - MAN. guess what third tier reality guy, you are not smart. sorry. but that is the "third tier" reality here. you graduated law school and are currently running an anti-law school blog instead of being an attorney. not smart. you accumulated law school debt for 3 years, to be a blogger. again, not smart. nice work man. keep reporting
ReplyDeleteFCSL grads (and any other law school grads) are not going to get jobs as easily as Harvard grads, and we absolutely shouldn't - they got into the best law school in the country, we didn't - they win. Harvard grads get the good jobs, the powerful jobs, they become...the MAN, and the MAN wins again, and that is a great thing. if assholes like this guy ran things it would be like when michael scott said it would be better if babies ran the world, "there would be no hunger, no war, well there would be no government, that actually would be a terrible idea, babies shouldn't run the world." things are better when we listen to michael scott. another "powerful voice" who can easily point out things that anyone with eyes and ears could point out (but actually decides to create a website about his various observations b/c he is currently unemployed and has the time) who has no solution for the "problems" he finds.
i usually don't care about much (except my bets and the steelers) but this kind of shit just pisses me off b/c all it can do is hurt us, this asshole who knows jackshit puts this out there and all it can do is make it harder for us to find jobs. thanks for the "help" man.
P.S. - they beat your moot court team when you were in law school. sorry
First off, owned ^^^^ (fiesty cubano)
ReplyDelete(let me also go ahead and state that I am a recent Florida Coastal Grad)
Second, this is the most grim, doom and gloom website I've ever seen. Never have I seen so many pessimistic, ridiculous views on gaining a higher education.
Third, let me break down your idiotic header to your blog.
"My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school. DO NOT ATTEND UNLESS: (1) YOU GET INTO A TOP 8 LAW SCHOOL;"
- Wow, you're really on your A-game right from the start. So, the only way to get a job as a lawyer, or be a good lawyer for that matter, is to go to a top 8 school. Hmmm...well, many successful attorneys that I know would beg to differ. All you have to do is visit a firm's website and this will prove you wrong instantly. For example, check out the attorney profiles at www.searcylaw.com, which is one of the top trial firms in the state of FL. The head attorney went to Stetson! Oh my gosh, that's terrible, he must be an awful lawyer! Obviously not the case. In fact, he's been deemed a Super Lawyer many years, was lawyer of the year in 2009, and has been and continues to win $30 million verdicts like it's nothing. I n fact, I don't think any of the attorneys there went to a Top 8. I saw some top 15's, most went to a 40-50 (many barely sneaking in with UF), as well as another partner that didn't go to a top 100 even. Good call.
(2) YOU GET A FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP TO ATTEND;
Ok, I see where you're going here. But seriously, schools don't just hand out full scholarships dumbass. Only a select few get them. If you're afraid to gain some debt by going to any grad school, then you obviously shouldn't go. But there are so many repayment plans now such as income sensitive plans that allow minimal payments for as long as you need them until you get a higher paying job. For example, I attended FCSL on full loans, and after fiddling around with the loan calculator, if I chose that option, based off a 30K salary, my payments would only be around $300 a month. Yes, it's gaining more interest like that, but 7% is better than any private loan/credit card that I am aware of.
(3) YOU HAVE EMPLOYMENT AS AN ATTORNEY SECURED THROUGH A RELATIVE OR CLOSE FRIEND;
ReplyDeleteWrong again. A friend and fellow May grad from FCSL just joined the in-house counsel team at a nationwide title company, getting paid $70K plus
and hasn't even taken the bar yet. Did he get it through Mommy? No, but through FCSL...GASP!!! But that's not possible! Florida Coastal piece of dump doesn't give a shit about their students! I know plenty of grads from FCSL that have legal jobs lined up that haven't even taken the bar yet. Once again, great call buddy. 0 for 3.
OR (4) YOU ARE FULLY AWARE BEFOREHAND THAT YOUR HUGE INVESTMENT IN TIME, ENERGY, AND MONEY DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, GUARANTEE A JOB AS AN ATTORNEY OR IN THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.
I can't disagree with this statement entirely. Graduating from a law school does not guarantee a job in the legal field, especially in this working climate. But, I find it hard to believe that you could not get your foot in the door somewhere, even if just starting out as an intern/clerk, through either your school's career dept, alumni dept., through a friend/family friend, or just by finding some common ground with an attorney by doing some research. I got an internship last summer almost entirely through cold-calling, as did a close friend of mine, and our resumes are by no means impressive. You just have to be willing to put in the work. This isn't 15 years ago where firms were knocking down law students doors to come work for them at outrageous salaries, that's just the facts of it. You have to go out and actively find a job. It seems as though most people on here think that when you get a JD and pass the bar, you are automatically employed with a legal position. I wish it were that way, believe me, but that's obviously not reality. Plus, a law school degree looks much better than an undergrad degree, so if you apply for a non legal job, you will look much better than any applicant with just an undergrad degree.
The only reason I posted this is b/c I was slightly offended by your horribly off-base logic and comments, plus I'm hoping that maybe someone thinking about going to a tier three school may read this comment amidst all the bullshit above it and still wish to attend. It is very possible to find a legal job with a law degree from any law school, no matter how badly ranked they may be. You just have to look and put in a good effort to find it, because it damn sure is not going to be put in your lap.
End rant.
Feisty Cubano, if you are so gutsy then why aren't you in Cuba trying to over-throw Raul or Fidel Castro? It amazes me that young South Florida Cubans think of themselves as "brave" and "courageous" for "calling out" the Castro brothers from the safety of American shores. I suppose it’s a lot easier than putting your nuts on the line, and really fighting for what you believe. Nice going, kid. If I am not smart - having attended a TTT on a full-tuition scholarship - then it stands to reason that you are even dumber, as you attended an over-priced fourth tier trash can. As far as I can tell, you are an angry law student at a FOR-PROFIT fourth tier piece of garbage law school. Also, try to use capital letters at the beginning of sentences and when using someone’s name, idiot. That may explain why you ended up at this dump of a law school. At least, law professors agree with the premise of this blog.
ReplyDeletehttp://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html
Is the ABA doing what it can to protect the SIGNIFICANT investment of lawyers and law students? No, they keep accrediting more dumps – even when the law school Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates – for a paltry 28,901 jobs requiring bar passage.
http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf
Also, maybe you have trouble with reading comprehension, but I have noted that it would be foolish to spend thousands more to sit for the bar exam – when I have an infinitesimally-small chance at landing legal employment. My advice to you, son: go drink some more beer and watch another Steelers game, while starting another angry screed against Fidel Castro. That will get you far in life, right?
@ the recent Coastal Toilet grad who posted twice above at 9:28 and 9:29:
ReplyDeleteYou CLEARLY have problems with reading comprehension. Did the header say “The ONLY WAY to get a job as a lawyer, or be a good lawyer for that matter, is to go to a top 8 school”? Or did YOU make that up, so you could make an argument for your position? Your weak interpretation skills speak to your low intelligence; I will not blame Coastal for your mental deficiency. Quite a few very $ucce$$ful lawyers went to TTTs and TTTTs. However, if your brain is powerful enough to recognize this, the fact remains that many of these guys went to law school in the 1970s and 1980s. It is a different set of rules, today.
Regarding my second exception, then only a select few would attend law school under this provision. Get the picture, TTTT moron? You really are a damn fool, if you truly are attending this FOR-PROFIT law school on FULL LOANS!! Furthermore, you can have your credit card debt DISCHARGED in bankruptcy proceedings. You cannot do so with student loans!
You create ANOTHER straw man on point 3. Why would that be? Could it be the fact that you cannot come up with a cogent argument on your own? If you do not have employment lined up, idiot, you run a serious risk of taking on HUGE debt and ending up scrambling for work – as career services offices don’t do much for the typical JD. Did that penetrate your gray matter?!?!
Pertaining to your “critique” of my fourth exception, where did you hear that “15 years ago firms…were knocking down law students doors to come work for them at outrageous salaries”? Everybody here KNOWS that you need to bust your ass just to get an interview. I knew a journal student editor at my school with STRONG grades who sent out 400+ resumes and cover letters – and did not so much as get a response. He also went to many “mixers” and talked to lots of local attorneys. How is that for actively looking for a job?
Now, to the meat and potatoes:
“Plus, a law school degree looks much better than an undergrad degree, so if you apply for a non legal job, you will look much better than any applicant with just an undergrad degree.”
You cannot seriously be this stupid and naive, can you?!?! Have you ever heard of being considered “overqualified” for the job opening? (Employers engage in this ruse as a way to tell you that they think you will want too much money – or that you are a flight risk, as you will jump ship when something better comes along.) Many job seekers are better off without a useless graduate degree. How does a law degree help the average corporate employer reach its goals?
I have NEVER stated that a job should land in anyone’s lap, you retard. Maybe you should learn to read, and follow a basic argument. True, someone could attend the worst law school out there and land a decent-paying legal job. However, the odds are STACKED against that happening. Is that worth the investment of three years of one’s life, six-figures in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, and the sleepless nights?!?!
Nando you're a sad little child. Good luck with that attitude in life.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015191304
ReplyDeleteCollege Graduates Enter an Ever-Shrinking South Florida Job Market. This extends to legal education,as well. Florida has 10 or 11 ABA-approved law schools. Both of you clowns attend a for profit TTTT. I guess you cannot accept reality. Shit, neither of you guys could get into a better school than this. That should tell you something.
Nando,
ReplyDeleteSeems like you prohibited racist slurs like the "N-Bomb" earlier in this post, as you should.
However, you engage in some pretty fierce bashing of Hispanics as with Feisty Cubano's post.
You should publish your own IP address, and other relevant contact information, like you threatened to do to the other foul mouthed blogger. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Right?
I for one do not approve. Rebuttal on substantive issues is what blogs like this are for, but thrashing someone with ill informed and derogatory commentary based on their username is just adolescent at best.
NOTE: I tried to indent my paragraphs, so you wouldn't use my grammar to show how much smarter you are than me, but this format won't let me. This is a blog, it is neither a treatise nor a legal writing.
Please quit resorting to these tactics, it only makes you look sad and angry. Come up with a decent argument, or don't rebut.
Sincerely,
Concerned Citizen
"Concerned Citizen",
ReplyDeleteIf someone wants to post comments under the racially-motivated/inspired handle of "Feisty Cubano", he is fair game. Honestly, how does his race matter, with regards to his position on the law school cartel? He chose to post a stupid, pointless comment under that name.
Apparently, you have trouble distinguishing between someone posting an ugly racial slur and someone turning around someone's logic on them. Feisty Cubano idiotically came onto this blog without having his facts straight. Right off the bat, he resorted to calling me names because I point out the obvious. I flipped his “reasoning” around on him, and asked him why he thinks he is so brave for being a South Florida Cuban who presumably hates Castro. (Does this kid honestly think that things were much better under Fulgencio Batista? Remember, this man was a STOOGE of the United States government. He was a morally and politically corrupt leader, who was a tool of U.S. corporations and the American Mafia. Learn some history; it might benefit you.)
I then posted the article from Brian Tamanaha, which supports the basic premise of these scam-busting blogs. (Remember, when Stupid said that I didn't know what I was talking about?)
Next, I unequivocally pointed out to this guy that there are TOO MANY DAMN LAWYERS being pumped out - for the available number of positions. I cited the NALP Class of 2009 Employment Report as supporting evidence. I then rebutted his BASELESS claim that this blog is full of crap. This blog actually relies on statistics, employment reports, statements from law school administrators, and stories from struggling attorneys to reach - and document - its conclusions. And lastly, the kid could not spell or use proper grammar. I wrote better than that when I was in grade school.
I also CLEARLY pointed out to the commenter that it would be foolish for me to spend thousands of more dollars on something that is NOT going to benefit me. I will not be hired by clients to represent them in legal matters; I will not be hired by a law firm; and I will not ever engage in the practice of law. That ship has sailed. I accept reality, kid. Hence, the name of this blog.
Stupid also falsely claimed that I was unemployed. I found a job within two months of graduation, whereas he is still learning legal theory at a for-profiTTTT school. Dumbass then compared me to a TV sitcom character who apparently said the world would be better off if babies ran the world. Who knows? Maybe the unemployed law student has too much time on his hands, if he is able to watch this sitcom drivel and comment on it. This is the type of student TTTTs feed off of, i.e. idiots who simply MUST be lawyers.
All Feisty Cubano managed to do was engage in emotionally-filled name-calling. What a big man, right?! In the end, the kid had NOTHING substantive to say. (Apparently, in your mind, it is okay for Feisty Cubano to act like a little punk, whereas it is not acceptable for me to handle him with reason, facts, stats, and a verbal thrashing.) And that is why I handed his ass to him in a paper sack. Got that?!?! Had he chosen to make at least a semi-literate, cogent argument as to why I am wrong, I would not have had to rip him a new one. (Although, it was a lot of fun.)
"I have noted that it would be foolish to spend thousands more to sit for the bar exam – when I have an infinitesimally-small chance at landing legal employment."
ReplyDeleteWhy did you even complete law school? Look, I agree with a lot of what you have to say (not all of it, but a lot), yet I can't help but think that the one you are most angry with is yourself. Ultimately your situation, as unfortuenate as it is, is your fault, not the ABA or any law school. I just don't understand why you didn't drop out after the first year.
The thing about law school is---with the immense cost---even if you drop out after the FIRST SEMESTER---you'll still owe anywhere from 10K to 12K...so the moment the first semester STARTS, you're already in the hole--you pretty much HAVE to push thru to the bitter end...
ReplyDeleteInfilaw has a lovely habit of hiring their unemployed grads, does wonders for low job placement.
ReplyDeleteI met my wife at FloCo. We work together in Miami making a combined $175k a year. I'm happy. I win. Blog on little angry person.
ReplyDeleteHave fun, insecure idiot. At least your wife can afford to wear nice clothes, when she is meeting Pedro the gardener for drinks at the hotel. I am sure her expensive perfume will add to Pedro's joy, as she runs her tongue over his crotch.
ReplyDeletePrivate Practice
ReplyDeleteFlorida Coastal School of Law pays its recent graduates to practice law
http://folioweekly.com/documents/folio1214wkl008.pdf
Despite a job market so bad that even experienced lawyers can’t find work, the Florida Coastal School of Law boasts that 93 percent of its 2009 graduates were employed as attorneys nine months after graduation. That’s actually a drop. In 2007, it was 97 percent. But FCSL’s rate still outshines the national average of 88 percent.
Employment rates are an important selling point for the private, for-profit law school, which emphasizes practical results from a legal education, and markets its program as a surefire way to pass the bar and find work.
You guys are really bumming me out. I took the LSAT, didn't do so well, and have been accepted to FCSL, AMSL, have been rejected by a few, and still waiting to hear back from some of the more popular ones. I don't want to spend a million dollars on law school, however, I would like to gain an education, and maybe some day practice law. I don't know in what state the recession will be when I finish in three years, but I hope, that it will be better than it is now. You say that FCSL is trash, everyone says FAMU is trash, and AMSL is trash and this and that is trash. Well, for those of us who only tested well enough for trash, I want to go the best out of the trash heap.. I can't help but think that maybe all the people complaining in the past three years of blogs, and articles are maybe just angry graduates who have no job at the moment because the recession sucks.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteMy best friends father graduated from FCLS and went on to become a U.S. Attorney in NYC."
March 16, 2011 12:45 PM
When did he attend, specifically, 1967-1970 maybe?
"fordam"?
In any event, what specifically is YOUR problem with the fact someone may voice an opinion that is anti-law school? No one here cares whether you choose to go to law school. Best of luck to you. But if others want to decide otherwise, wisely, and not go, does that not make it better for guys like you from a competitive standpoint? You should be kissing Nando's ass, not calling him, as you are so fond of saying, a "piece of shit". Is he not helping clear the way for guys like you, by revealing the very real down-side of attending a toilet bowl like FCSL, thereby convincing your potential future competitors for jobs not to attend law school?
Your very poor grasp of the logic of this situation alarms me. Good luck with that, too, as you will need it.
Reguardless of what anyone thinks on this forum, it is true that it does not matter where you go to law school PERIOD! I am a 28 year old lawyer (graduated from California Western) who practices defense work in New York City and I am going to open up a firm of my own with 3 other partners this next year, 4 blocks from Wall Street. I will easily be making 350,000+ my first year in this new defense firm. I am not being pompous on this site, but I think it is pathetic how some people think what law school you attend determines your success. Yes being at a more prestigious school will give you more looks and interviews out of school, but has no correlation as to what kind of a lawyer you will become. I meet with NYC lawyers on Wall Street almost every week and half of them are egg-heads who went to top law schools like Harvard or Yale not even making half the money I make or half the lawyer I am...(yeah I went to a T4 school.....) Most of these lawyers who are extremely smart can memorize a law book in an hour and regurgitate every word from it, but when these claimed genious lawyers step in the courtroom with me they can't even touch me because I am so far ahead of them. I hope this helps many people out who think FCSL is a dump because I went to a school just like this one and my cousin is looking here and showed me this site and I had to write a response.
ReplyDeletep.s. First job out of California Western I was an assistant prosecutor in New Jersey. I now work at Frederick L. Sosinsky law firm in NYC making 250,000+ there. I beat out hundreds of other lawyers who came from schools a thousand times better than mine. Just shows how what school you attend doesn't mean anything. Good luck to everyone with their decision and remember FCSL is just as good as Harvard, all depends on what you make of it.
April 21, 2011 8:18 pm,
ReplyDeletehttp://sosinskylaw.com/Firm%20Info/Lawyers/531144.aspx
This profile is from LexisNexis. When you click on the "Attorneys" tab, the ONLY name that comes up is Frederick L. Sosinsky, a criminal defense lawyer who graduated from Fordham Law School in 1987. Apparently, this is a one-man operation. Perhaps, Mr. Sosinsky has a secretary. However, there are no California Western grads employed at this law firm.
Joe, YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AS A LIAR.
"I meet with NYC lawyers on Wall Street almost every week and half of them are egg-heads who went to top law schools like Harvard or Yale not even making half the money I make or half the lawyer I am...(yeah I went to a T4 school.....) Most of these lawyers who are extremely smart can memorize a law book in an hour and regurgitate every word from it, but when these claimed genious lawyers step in the courtroom with me they can't even touch me because I am so far ahead of them."
Why would Biglaw corporate transactional attorneys be arguing cases against a criminal defense lawyer?!?! By the way, how many attorneys can actually memorize and regurgitate every word from a law book? Are you competing against supercomputers?
By the way, lying pig/dumbass: genius is not spelled with an “o.” One would expect a $250K per year lawyer to figure this out. After all, this is a word that most sixth graders should be able to spell correctly.
Prospective law students, beware of liars such as “Joe”- when making your decision. You will hear some anecdotal “success” stories. To be fair, sometimes exceptional lawyers do come out of low-ranked schools. However, such people are rare. (This is akin to successful NBA players who played college basketball at an NAIA school - as opposed to the corrupt organization known as the NCAA. Both Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman played at NAIA schools. Does this mean that the NAIA consistently produces top NBA talent?!?!) Due to the fact that the legal industry is so focused on prestige, these men and women will need to open up their own law offices. They will need plenty of luck and skill.
"April 21, 2011 8:18 PM"
ReplyDeleteAs of May 11, 2011, the Frederick L. Sosinsky Law firm lists only Fred himself as its attorney. Joe, you need to get on him about updating his website. You are not getting the credit you deserve. Don't you know it pays to advertise? How can you AFFORD not to have that website updated constantly, especially in the hyper-competitive NYC legal market? People need to know about you, dammit!
Nonetheless, congratulations on your successes. It could be you are just humble, after all.
So whats the verdict on attending FCSL?
ReplyDelete"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSo whats the verdict on attending FCSL?
May 16, 2011 9:41 PM":
Here is the verdict (well, actually, the rule) regarding third-tier toilet-bowl law schools:
Unless you have valuable connections, experiences, or contacts to the local legal community and/or you are independently wealthy, if you choose to attend one of these low-ranked law schools, you must, MUST damn you, drop out if your First Year grades are poor.
That is the rule.
The First Year is the only year that counts in law school. Low-prestige toilets like this one are fine--that is, if you are planning on joining the family firm after licensing OR if you can hit the top 10% of the class First Year. Otherwise, drop out, as you will not get hired by anyone and it will take considerable financial resources to open up your own shop straight out of law school. Don't forget, law school does not, in any way, teach you how to practice law. It is only a prerequisite to the bar exam.
A non-elite JD, coupled with poor First Year grades for an unconnected non-wealthy kid, spells doom in the non-law world, where you will be seeking work after attending this place if you don't perform as described above. Non-law employers HATE JD holders seeking work with them unless they can bring on board significant and valuable experiences, contacts and connections.
Go ahead, go to FCSL, but drop the hell out if you don't hit the top 10% of your class First Year. Otherwise, you will have a worthless JD on your hands that will actually be a hindrance.
That is all.
@July 1,1:36, dogs can not talk. Sheesh. At least give credit to them for the hard work and victory.
ReplyDeleteThe world traveling law student.
To the world-traveling douchebag,
ReplyDeleteIf you are so busy visiting foreign lands and exotic locales, then why do you spend so much time on this blog? Go out and have fun, ass-clown - even though, in your case, "fun" involves playing with strange men's penises.
No. They won a competition. They worked hard. Then you all come here and BLAST them all for it. I SHALL NOT GIVE IN until I HAVE SATISFACTION! Repent and delete. Repent and delete this blog!
ReplyDeleteThe World Traveling Law Student
The comment above is an illustration of mental illness. If you are married to the idea of going to law school, then you could end up like this cockroach. By the way, the World Traveling Law Student has admitted, on SEVERAL entries, that he attends Western New England College Sewer of Law. His mother must be very proud, huh?
ReplyDeleteWho posted this trash talk and what are his credentials? Did this person go to law school? What tier? What did he do during law school. You do not just go to a law school and expect to have a job lined up. There are thousands lined up who are situated better, similar, and worse. Maybe this blogger just went through school and did the bare minimums. Before everyone starts judging school on what the schools say or don't say, maybe they should inquire about this blogger. Stats don't mean anything when there is human nature involved. Maybe people that interviewed just sucked at interviewing? Who the heck knows. If you graduated from any school this blogger mentions, do NOT let it discourage. You KNOW THE LAW. Be proud of it because you know how smart you are compared to the person next to you at mcdonalds.
ReplyDeleteTo the pussy who posted on September 15, 2011 at 10:08 am,
ReplyDeleteTake a look at this graph, you piece of trash:
http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NationalSummaryChartforSchools2010.pdf
Law schools are permitted to count those working at Wal-Mart or McDonald’s as “employed” - for the purpose of the graduation survey, bitch. However, one does not need a law degree, to work in retail or in fast food, cockroach. According to NALP, moron, the JD Class of 2010 had 44,258 members.
However, only 28,167 jobs required bar passage. (Hint, dumbass: not all of these were traditional attorney positions.) That is a mere 63.64% of 2010 law grads, ass-clown. Of those who reported their employment status, Stupid, only 87.6% of grads reported having a job - legal or non-legal, part-time or full-time, permanent or temporary.
Also, learn how to read, mental deficient. When you are done with your coloring book, cockroach, look to the right side of this blog. It shows that I graduated from law school, in 2009. It also lists the name of the TTT institution, you miserable vagina.
To quote a retard:
"Who the heck knows. If you graduated from any school this blogger mentions, do NOT let it discourage. You KNOW THE LAW. Be proud of it because you know how smart you are compared to the person next to you at mcdonalds."
Yes, sitting in a classroom for three years - listening to FAILED LAWYERS known as "law professors" - prepares one to BE an attorney, right, douche bag?!?! Law school is simply a three year, expensive admission ticket, to sit for the bar exam. In fact, bar prep courses actually teach people how to pass that exam, so that they can become licensed to practice law.
In the final analysis, when 10:08 am is wearing a headset - and working the drive through window at McDonald's - I suppose that he will be proud of his "accomplishment." By the way, looking at his writing style, one cannot be certain that this piece of garbage will be smarter than his McDonald's co-workers.
Pertaining to your comment, the only thing we know about YOU, as a “contributor,” is that you have an IQ in the low 80s. Regarding your credentials, it appears that you are qualified to post blog comments from a half-way house or county jail. Your mother must be very proud.
There are more than enough lawyers out there..why don't you try to study a field that is not based on the philosophy "The truth is what you convince others to believe is true"
ReplyDelete@ December 12, 2011 8:57 am,
ReplyDeleteIt is CLEAR that you are not an attorney. No practicing lawyer would use such a stupid moniker. What the hell are you talking about?! Law schools attempt to attract and convince students and applicants via manipulated statistics, glossy brochures, law school fairs, etc. When you grow a pair of balls and a brain stem, feel free to come back and comment on this blog. Until then, go play with your coloring books and Legos.
nando, your post/counter post on sept 25 2011 has got to be the funniest one I've ever read in terms of a rebuttal...seriously that made my day hahahahaha
ReplyDelete