Saturday, August 14, 2010

“You Can Do Anything With a Law Degree, Such as Work for Free”



Unpaid Prosecutor Positions

Salary Information: This is a one-year appointment without compensation; uncompensated SAUSAs cannot be considered by this office for a permanent AUSA position for two years after expiration of this SAUSA’s one-year appointment.

Location: Oakland, California.

Relocation Expenses: Relocation expenses will not be authorized.” [Emphasis mine]

Yes, this sounds like a dream job, doesn’t it? “Special” Assistant U.S. Attorney, indeed. No compensation and you must wait two years after the completion of the one-year appointment – to even be CONSIDERED for a permanent AUSA post.

You too can be an unpaid prosecutor in Marin County, CA, Washington DC or Atlanta!! What a truly presTTTigious “profession” this is, right?!?!

"Many of the applications are from newly unemployed (law firm) associates, recent graduates and even a few who are currently employed," Rosenstein said. "People who are applying see it as a stepping stone."

First Assistant U.S. Attorney John Horn said interest has been strong since the Atlanta office began offering "special" prosecutor positions last fall.

Nearly 40 applications have come in the past two months to compete for four new unpaid positions, which would normally pay between $70,000 to $100,000. Horn said the jobs, requiring commitments of at least six months to a year, are not internships typically filled by students.” [Emphasis mine]

Some may see this as a stepping stone to poverty. The fact that 40 applicants are vying for these four unpaid positions – and committing to at least six months on the “job” – shows CONCLUSIVELY that this industry is GROSSLY oversaturated.

Law Schools Paying Firms to Hire Their Graduates

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2010/05/smus_paying_would-be_employers.php

“The SMU Dedman School of Law has started a program called Test Drive, which is just what it sounds like: The university will pay a firm $3,500 to test drive one of its recent graduates for one month. And, says the school's pitch to prospective employers, it "will consider funding an additional month of employment if you and the graduate intend to continue the relationship toward full-time employment." [Emphasis mine]

SMU is shelling out $3,500 to firms who hire its law grads for one month; yes, a true sign of a powerhouse law school.

“As Duke Law News reported, Duke worked hard to ensure its graduates had jobs. While it didn’t go the SMU route of paying employers to “test drive” its graduates, it does now provide stipends to some of its unemployed graduates to allow them to work for a couple months at no cost to employers. Using SMU’s car metaphor, the law school pays for the gas while Dukies and prospective employers take a little spin. Duke calls it “The Bridge to Practice” program.

It started in 2008 — employing the nine graduates who would have otherwise ruined that nice round 100%. The numbers of participants have increased since then, as the economy has worsened.

The program had nine participants in 2008 and 15 in 2009. The number will likely double this year.”

Then again, the eleventh-best law school in the nation – according to U.S. News & World Report – is resorting to these methods. Apparently, they want to maintain their 100% placement rate.

Law School Construction Projects


Hey, at least, the State of Maryland can donate $92 million for construction of a new Law Center on BalTTTimore’s campus. What a great investment, huh?!


And 86th-ranked Syracuse has received a $15 million gift to build a new law school on campus. The total goal is $90 million. Not for scholarships, but for a NEW BUILDING!!

http://www.ktvb.com/home/Ground-broken-for-Boises-first-law-school-96908944.html

And Boise, Idaho will receive its first law school – courtesy of PATHETIC PIECE OF TRASH Concordia University.

“Concordia isn't the only university with its sights set on Boise.

The University of Idaho is also working on bringing part of it's (sic) law school to the Treasure Valley.”


“The State of Tennessee allocated an unprecedented $42 million toward the renovation of the historic custom house, federal courthouse and most recently post office.”

Guess what? Memphis is still a third tier commode. Great use of taxpayer funds!!

In sum, there are NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH jobs for recent JDs and attorneys, but the law schools have enough money to construct new law school buildings. The states are strapped for cash, but they have money to throw at these diploma mills. Does anyone want to argue that the law schools are concerned about the fate of their graduates?!?!

41 comments:

  1. I was reading an interview with the guy who made billions hedging against the mortgage market. He saw that it was a self destructive (in electronics, we call it a feed forward or positive feedback system) which cannot sustain itself (that's why sometimes you hear the awful squeal out of a microphone). Anyway, when asked what his next project is, he said, and I'm paraphrasing: "I didn't think there could be an industry as socially and self destructive as the American mortgage/financial industry of the 2000's, but the student loan industry seems to be filling in quite nicely."

    Remember that all these buildings are paid for by federally backed student loans, with the promise that all these kids are going to get 6 figure jobs and pay back with interest. Sound familiar? Sounds to me like "yeah sure this line cook and his wife, the grocery store checkout clerk should be given this $700K option ARM teaser rate mortgage because they can pay back the teaser payments and by the time the ARM resets the place will be worth 2X as much!" CRASH.

    In any event, those people facing foreclosure (assuming a non recourse state) can just leave their keys in the mailbox and tell the bank to shove the mortgage up their ass. But student loan debt is *non dischargable*... what effect will that have when droves upon droves of students start defaulting? Keep in mind that this crisis really hit in 2009, so the class of 2009 fared relatively well compared to 2010, whose loans will come due in what... December? 7 months after graduation, right? So, 3, 4 months after that of dancing around with bill collectors trying to squeeze blood from a stone, then what? I'm so curious to see what's going to happen. My prognosis is that courts will begin to chip away at the "undue hardship" standard as evidence piles up of phony 99.9999% employment statistics and $600K administrator salaries.

    ReplyDelete
  2. It's not gonna hit for a few years I think

    Unlike the mortgage massacre the federal government has much more control over the hundreds of billions of debt that everyone knows will never be paid back. They will sell us that inflating the debt away is in our interest while the government bails itself out by raising taxes 20 percent

    Abolish the fed

    Take away AbAs accreditation

    And just let the market collapse already so our kids can at least have a fighting chance


    The generational theft going on right now is the biggest financial scam in the history of the world

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  3. It won't hit for a few years. Standards for indefinitely deferring, hardship exceptions, and ICR/IBR have been thrown into the mix to continue masking the real problems with student lending and allowing the debt orgy to continue. It will take a few years of currently unemployed student exhausting all of their options and stiffing the lenders in the meantime, before some genius at the Department of Education gets an inkling that something might be awry.

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  4. @scammed. I think a lot less time than that. Remember these student loans have been sliced and diced into derivative debentures. These debebtures are funding retirement pensions. Inflate and the previous generation cannot retire to open places. Think about that.

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  5. Even the employed are applying? You know what it says to me? That there are either attorneys who think of this as their "Eat Pray Love," employed attorneys who see the writing on the wall and know that they are about to lose their job, or their paying jobs are so awful that they see this as their only means of escape.

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  6. These are desperate economic times, and Paul Krugman thinks the high rate of unemployment will become a permanent feature of the US. These lawyers are being sucked down a whirlpool and trying to grasp onto a life raft. Of course, some asshole will come on here and tell us that these unpaid jobs are not indicative of a bigger problem.

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  7. Short sighted hyperbole never ceases to amaze me. I remember the 1990s when people were seriously saying that we were entering a new economy where the business cycle is dead and it will be permanent prosperity. They argued that profit/loss fundamentals don't matter, "tech" companies that have made trivial innovations were worth billions of dollars and the Dow would be at 36,000 by now. LOL

    Today, people are saying that the business cycle is dead and that it will be permanent recession. The world will go to hell and lucrative professions are worthless.

    The fundamentals of the economy, and the reality of the busines cyle, remain the same.

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  8. I am here to tell you that these unpaid jobs are not indicative of a bigger problem.

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  9. I can't think of any other profession where people would go to such lengths (7 years of school, six figure debt, bar exam/cle fees) just to work for free.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: Fuck the ABA!

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  10. There are two possible hypotheses:
    1. Something has fundamentally and permanently altered the economy leading to more new attorneys than available jobs. Evidence for this is that there is competition for unpaid internships for new attorneys.
    2. We are in a temporary recessionary phase of the business cycle leading to more attorneys than available jobs. Evidence for this is that there is competition for unpaid internships for new attorneys.

    The existence of these unpaid internships is no more evidence for hypothesis 1 than it is for hypothesis 2. This blog's commentators, like most of us, simply do not know which of the two is correct but, consistent with this blog's overall tone of extreme negativity, they favor hypothesis 1.

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  11. @9:03

    While you can't overlook a weak economy as being a large part of the problem, it's too broad of an outlook for our purposes.

    There are just too many schools producing too many practitioners of a profession that much of society doesn't value. Nobody likes lawyers, until they need one. And, even then, they don't want to pay one.

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  12. Nando in his infinite and unlimited wisdom tells everyone that there are no jobs anywhere, but misses that there are in fact many available opportunities (for pay) available right now. Nando and several of the other "scambloggers" elect to focus on the cities or states where there are a lot of attorneys and the market is indeed saturated (i.e. New York, Northern California). However, several states are still what I would consider to be legally underserved at this point and there are jobs available. What Nando and the others don't want to discuss is that you might not be able to live in your first choice city/state, practice in the area of law you specifically want to or have the career you always dreamed of.

    Yes, those of us who graduated within the past few years have had many fewer opportunities than those before us, but there are still many opportunities for those who will put the time in, develop their skills and who have both short and long term goals in mind.

    Life is what we make of it, yes I'm not currently doing what I went to law school for but I'm making the best of it. And to those of you who do nothing but b**** and blog all day long, I say thank you because your lack of effort will directly benefit the rest of us and will provide us many more opportunities in the long run.

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  13. Yes there are legal jobs for pay in all areas of the United States in even Northern California which is heavily saturated my company just hired a for pay attorney. The issue is who are the attorneys being hired for those jobs (the likely fact is not many recent and unskilled attorneys), also free employment as posted here sucks for those having to pay for life expenses and appears a disturbing growing trend. I don't get the one month stipend for work idea as a person who has had to train law students and law graduates. Within a month such person is still useless and can't quickly pick up everything I need such person to pick up. Also since there is so much training involved, the likely idea if I were given a work for fee graduate for a month is to put such person on all the low level/legal aid duties, I would give to a temp paralegal.

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  14. And too bad there is that pesky bar admission requirement. I suppose if you took bar exams in all 50 states and were current on your bar dues you could find a job anywhere at the drop of a hat. But if you could afford all that, you don't need a job in the first place since you are already independently wealthy.

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  15. Yes, there are law jobs out there, but many of them do not justify the cost of law school or offer any real job security. Additionally, as stated prior, there is such an exorbant amount of laid off attorneys with experience who are willing to be paid at a much lower rate that the recent grads of non-elite schools are truly at a significant disadvantage. My bottom line is if you still have this visceral desire to become an attorney, go to law school, but also do not have some veil draped over your eyes about your job prospects. Be realistic, aim for the top of the class, network your ass off, and yes, those first year grades are that important. If you are not in the top 20% and not on some kind of law review or moot court (yes you can still find some gainful employment if you are in this rank as long as you are at a tier 2 and above) then ask yourself are you willing to take mediocre if any jobs for marginal pay?

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  16. @8:40, before taking and/or applying the bar you could actually figure out where you could where the greatest need for attorneys was and go there. Or you could narrow it down to a couple of states which are near each other and take both of them over the same 3 day period which some states also allow for. Some states will also allow you to practice for a limited amount of time if you are current in one state as long as you take their bar within a few months. So no there is absolutely no reason to take the bar in all 50 states beforehand.

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  17. The legal profession has been overly saturated for decades. The reason why this is "now" a problem is due to the student loan crisis that is looming coupled with the out of control tuition increases and the current economic recession, which has put the spotlight squarely on the plight of the "highly" educated yet unemployed/underemployed professional.

    Law schools and the ABA will ride the gravy train until the breaks are bled and the end will be a catastrophic derailment. Kids today are running scared from the recession. They see older established lawyers living in a house on the hills, driving a Benz, and married to a trophy wife. Kids, those days are over.

    Go to your local Yellow pages now. Go to the lawyer's section. Count the pages listing all the attorneys in your area. Now find another "profession" or business with more pages. Guess what? There are none. In NYC alone there are tens of thousands of lawyers willing to take your dogbite case for a measly couple of grand. A measly two grand to work a file for 1-2 years? Let us not forget the $500-$1K fender bender cases where the insurance company sends you a nuissance check for the lulz.

    Shitlaw areas such as immigration and bankruptcy are heavily saturated. You think you can bring a special flair or skill into filling out forms for a Palestenian who sham married a US citizen African American woman? Do you think you will make more money by hooking up with a mortgage foreclosue rescue fly by night scam that will feed you a dozen frivolous stall tactic bankruptcy cases? What happens when you face rule 9011 sanctions and the fly by night company is long gone? Goodbye law license and Sallie Mae won't care you are suspended or disbarred. How come this aspect of the law is not glorified on the glossy law school brochures?

    This week, 45K plus morons will begin the descent into this putrid profession. Only the smart ones will withdraw now and salvage their deposits. As soon as the tuition loan checks arrived, you have been rope a doped.

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  18. http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/lgl/1569020234.html

    “Date: 2010-01-24, 10:34PM, EST
    Reply to: job-j5gqy-1569020234@craigslist.org

    State of Florida – Office of Criminal Conflict and Civil Regional Counsel has two positions for immediate hiring. For each position please submit your resume, WITH salary requirements (except for the attorney). Resumes may be emailed or faxed to (772) 429-2170. Interviews will be scheduled as soon as possible. These are full-time positions. Hours are 8 am to 5 pm, Monday through Friday. Please see the information posted for each position.

    Attorney
    This position has a full benefit package with an annual salary of $15,080.00. The position has opened with the possibility to hire someone who may be looking for the benefits portion more than the salary. The State of Florida offers 100% paid health insurance for yourself and your immediate family, six weeks paid vacation per year, paid state holidays, paid sick leave, deferred compensation, tuition free college, Florida Retirement System plus more. Applicants must be a member of the Florida Bar.

    NO phone calls please.

    *Location: Downtown W. Palm Beach
    *Compensation: See each listing
    *OK to highlight this job opening for people with disabilities
    *Principals only. Recruiters, please don’t contact this job poster.
    *Please, no phone calls about this job!
    *Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

    PostingID: 1569020234”

    Yes, a truly FANTASTIC offer, isn’t it?!?! After all, WHO doesn’t want to be a full-time attorney for the state – at the AMAZING annual salary of FIFTEEN THOUSAND AND EIGHTY DOLLARS?!?! Maybe, recent attorneys should be grateful that this job even pays, right? This page is no longer up, but you can contact the job poster to confirm the info above.

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  19. Nando, I am in Florida and I can tell you there are so many lawyers here that they come in all shapes, sizes and species. Some even have taken the form and appearance of a cockroach. Here in Miami every other commercial on the tube or radio is from some personal injury hack who can "get you money for your pain." The law schools continue to pump more sewage product into the landfill legal market. It seems everyone and their mother is a lawyer. This profession stopped being prestigious 30 years ago.

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  20. http://blogs.findlaw.com/strategist/2009/12/will-litigate-for-food-nj-ag-takes-on-attorney-volunteers.html

    “In New Jersey, the state has come up with a good solution for keeping those out of work attorneys busy and off the street corners: be an attorney volunteer for the AG.

    New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram has started taking on qualified attorneys as volunteers in her office. This is a quite a switch from past days when unpaid internships were given only to students. But with the assistance of those volunteers, the Attorney General gets a start on filling the holes blasted in her office staff by state budget cuts. The Division of Law is still under a hiring freeze after losing about 130 lawyers since January 2006.

    NPR reports today that more than 100 volunteers have applied and more than 60 have already been placed with the office. They do research, take depositions, and sometimes appear in court, but usually as the second chair. Ray Solomon, Dean of the Reuters Law School in Camden, told NPR he's not surprised there's been so much interest in the volunteer program. In other recessions, the public sector has been a bit of a safe haven when private firms weren't hiring. Solomon says that's not the case anymore.

    Volunteering is a good way for newly minted lawyers to get experience, but it's an even better deal for the state. Not only does it help attack the AG's case load over all departments, those volunteering in the debt recovery unit are actually making the state money, to the tune of about $20 million a year for the unit as a whole.”

    Yes, that is nice. One hundred volunteer attorneys applied for this UNPAID position for the New Jersey state Attorney General’s Office. That is uplifting news, right?!?!

    That must mean the lawyer job market is about to turn the corner, correct?! After all, the state is NOT CHARGING these attorneys for this “opportunity.” Hell, this is a win-win for everyone! Those lawyers slaving away in the debt recovery unit will make the state $20 million – and THEY gain valuable experience.

    Of course, these attorneys will need to put their student loans in deferment – and watch helplessly as interest accrues on that NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. Or maybe, some of these unpaid lawyers can bust their ass for the AG and then work the drive through window at McDonald’s!! Yes, that is the ticket to success! Sleep is over-rated anyway.

    This type of work is for those who are still in law school. In fact, I know people who have worked/volunteered for state AG offices while they were in undergrad!!

    To the industry apologist cockroaches telling us that we can work in cities where there is not so much lawyer oversaturation, thanks for the advice. Do YOU want to work in Bismarck, ND making $35K a year as a state court clerk – when you have $120K in student loans that need to be repaid?!

    “Nando in his infinite and unlimited wisdom tells everyone that there are no jobs anywhere, but misses that there are in fact many available opportunities (for pay) available right now.”

    @12:57/http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=68.224.7.7

    Where did I EVER state “there are no jobs anywhere”?! Apparently, you need to create straw men, because your arguments are weak and not based on fact.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Um, not to get into a pissing match, but Nando, you did say:

    "In sum, there are NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH jobs for recent JDs and attorneys, but the law schools have enough money to construct new law school buildings."

    The previous commenter exaggerated your statement, but not by much, and certainly not enough to create a straw man as you suggest. The point 12:57 is making is valid - there are jobs out there in markets that are not as saturated. We all can't practice in NYC, DC, SF, etc. Most law students seem incapable of accepting this.

    Specifically, you asked "Do YOU want to work in Bismarck, ND making $35K a year as a state court clerk – when you have $120K in student loans that need to be repaid?! " The point is, we always don't get to chose where we live or work, but you do what you have to do to survive. If I was unemployed, and moving to North Dakota meant stable employment, then that is a sacrifice I would make.

    And before you make this personal, Nando, I agree 100% with you say about law schools charging too much and distorting employment statistics. So I am not an industry apologist. However, I firmly believe that many young attorneys have a sense that they are entitled to some great job in the city of their choosing. They refuse to consider relocating to a smaller city or certain parts of the county, and to those people, I have no sympathy.

    Stated differently, law schools charging way too much for tuition and distorting employment prospects is a distinct issue from the employment prospects of young attorneys. To all you young attorneys who are unemployed - so you didn't land that dream job with a big firm in a big city. Get over it and move on. Do what you have to do to get a job. And you never know, you might actually like being a lawyer in a secondary market. I know I do.

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  22. Nando, what happened to L4L? His blog is down. Did the Valvoline Dean's henchmen reach Mr. Bullock? Or did Mr. Bullock strike a sweet side deal to take down the blog in exchange for an undisclosed sum of cash? Inquiring minds want to know.

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  23. Why do you assume that "all you young attorneys who are unemployed" are only unemployed because they're turning their noses up at anything less than BigLaw?

    Maybe your belief that "many young attorneys" have a sense of entitlement simply means that you're way out of touch with the attitudes of many young attorneys.

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  24. @nookular:

    As a young attorney myself (less than 5 years out) who regularly interacts with recent graduates and law students, I don't think that I am way out of touch with the attitude of many young attorneys.

    Do all recent graduates have a sense of entitlement? Of course not. I do, however, feel that many recent graduates limit themselves geographically to where they are willing to practice, mostly to highly competitive jurisdictions, and this in turn further hinders their job prospects in an already dismal economy.

    I base this on my conversations with recent graduates and law students. Many simply have unrealistic expectations about how competitive they will be in certain jurisdictions. I agree that this is, in part, a result of law schools misrepresenting employment statistics. But at some point, if you're unemployed and graduated from a TTT, you need to think about finding less competitive jurisdictions to practice, even if that means flyover country.

    Is that really such a controversial statement?

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  25. Does anybody know what happened to "Big Debt, Small Law"?

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  26. Anyone else notice the irony with Nando who is never wrong? From his previous points he seems to live in Utah and he works in politics which means it is likely he lives/works in the Salt Lake City/Provo area of Utah (and if this isn't true remember at the very least he lived in Des Moines, IA for 3 years for school). So for him to call out the perceived boring possibilities of Bismarck, North Dakota is a little bit like pot meet kettle.

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  27. @7:00 p.m. - I graduated from a "prestigious" school high in Tier 1. I wanted Biglaw, but after I realized it wasn't going to happen, I lowered my expectations and began looking for work in the local area where I came from. The high promises that my degree from [tier 1 toilet] would carry clout any and everywhere did not pay off as a lot of the lawyers from my town didn't understand why I moved up north to go to law school. "Could you not get into [local TTTT where they went to school]?" they said. Long story short, even if you have adjusted your expectations - even WAY down - it's tough to get a job with a small firm as they tend to be just as concerned about connections and the good old boy network as bigger firms and they tend to like people who went to only certain regional law schools. I myself have decided to leave law and am very happy with my decision. I just wanted to make you aware that it's still hard to get a job in "fly over country," though many of us have been and are willing to do so.

    ReplyDelete
  28. "Do all recent graduates have a sense of entitlement? Of course not. I do, however, feel that many recent graduates limit themselves geographically to where they are willing to practice..."

    If there's a strong connection between a limited willingness to relocate and the "entitlement" attitude you suggest, I'm not seeing it. There are many reasons someone might not be wiling to relocate that have nothing to do with feeling "entitled." A spouse may already have a good career going. Some people want to be reasonably close to family and friends. Some people simply can't afford to relocate, particularly if they would need to sell a house in a crappy market.

    And, whatever happened to the cost/benefit analysis? One might look at one's prospects in the legal profession, compare that to some other opportunity, and conclude, "I'd be better off doing this other thing instead of practicing law."

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  29. http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

    Class of 2009 NALP Findings:

    • 44,000 graduates for this class
    • 28,901 jobs “requiring bar passage” – certainly not all of these jobs are as lawyers; for instance, of the 4,861 “business” jobs, bar passage was required for 1,407 of these positions.
    • 35,002 reported jobs, of which 31,405 are full-time. This includes the following categories: bar passage required; JD preferred; other professional; non-professional; and job type unknown.

    Looking at these numbers, and reading through NALP’s summary, there clearly ARE nowhere near enough lawyer positions to satisfy the number of law graduates. Unless, of course, you consider a 65.68% (28,901/44,000) clip to mean that there are (almost) enough jobs for the number of JDs. I have never said that “there are no jobs anywhere.” The commenter at 12:57 clearly made a straw man argument. He did not even attempt to refute my position that there are nowhere near enough attorney jobs for recent JDs. I have stated this several times on this blog before.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    “A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet weaker proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.”

    We can see that several JDs are willing to move out-of-state to find employment. Also, plenty of law schools are located in third tier cities, such as Des Moines, Omaha, Provo, Lansing, Cheyenne, etc. Those students go into those schools realizing that they will probably not be working in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles. In light of this, stating that many law students expect a job in the city of their choosing is one hell of a stretch.

    I actually would have moved to Bismarck or Sioux Falls to find legal employment. I was posing the question to the commenter at 12:57. He is posting from Las Vegas, NV. I want to see if these trolls would be willing to move to the middle of nowhere to practice law.

    Knute and others, I don't know why L4L chose to take down "Big Debt, Small Law". He was recently quoted in a New Jersey Star-Ledger article. He is now in private practice with another attorney. Maybe he was concerned that potential clients would be able to find his hard-hitting blog.

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  30. Lawyers lining up to work for free is a sign of a healthy job sector. We should pray for more of these opportunities to befall this honorable profession. Why on earth would anyone turn down such an opportunity to gain experience?

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  31. "Lawyers lining up to work for free is a sign of a healthy job sector. We should pray for more of these opportunities to befall this honorable profession. Why on earth would anyone turn down such an opportunity to gain experience?"

    Right! And anyone who disagrees suffers from a sense of entitlement.

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  32. professionals willing to work for free is a sign of desperation. esp. considering this relates to people who have gone to school for 7 yrs at prohibitive costs. only a deceitful devil could defend this system.

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  33. As a seasoned attorney, let me weigh in on the "working for free" experience.

    Depending on what jurisdiction you practice in, you will be required (read: FORCED) to perform a certain number of pro bono hours per year. Indentured servitude? Violation of the 13th Amendment? It's all been tried. The courts have said if you don't want to do pro bono, fine, just turn in your law license and flush down 7 years of education and keep the student loan payments. So yes, you are stuck with pro bono. With States cutting budgets and slashing legal aid, the PD's office, expect the Courts to tap into solos and young attorneys to do work for free. Also, the IOLTA fund, which arguably steals money (interest on client escrow accounts) to fund pro bono legal services has suffered a depletion of funds thanks to the real estate bust.

    Here is how pro bono works. One day you are in the office working on a paid matter. You get a call from the clerk of the court saying the assignment judge wants you to take a death row appeal case. Before you say "But I am not a criminal law attorney, I am a divorce attorney," the clerk is faxing you the information on your new assignment. Turns out, the death row inmate's last lawyer abandoned him and you have to argue his appeal before the appeals' court in one week. Basically you have to go visit the inmate, spend hours with him, become familiar with the appeal and prepare an outline to argue his case. In that week, you will get about 30 calls (collect I may add) from the inmate per day. If you refuse to accept the call, the inmate "politely" warns you that you have a duty under the Rules of Professional Conduct to accept his call and if you don't, he will report you to the Ethics board of the Bar. You will have to push aside the paid matters in your office to become an expert in one week on an area of law that is chinese to you. In the end, you will lose the appeal, the guy goes back on death row for years and in the meantime he will file a malpractice (ineffective assistance of counsel/negligence) case against you and you will have to pay money or have your malpractice carrier defend the ethics complaint your pro bono client will file on you for not answering 30 of the 35 collect calls he made to you per day.

    This is a fucking wonderful profession. What I recapped here is a true story and is just one of many possible scenarios that awaits newly minted attorneys and morons that are starting law school in the next few days. Six figure debt to call yourself an esquire? It's a raw deal kids.

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  34. http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2010/08/overseaslawschools.html

    ABA Considers Accrediting Overseas Law Schools

    "In the report, the panel said that--with state supreme courts and bar associations are under mounting pressure to make decisions about whether to admit foreign lawyers--expanding the ABA's accreditation would "provide additional guidance for state supreme courts when lawyers trained outside the U.S. seek to be allowed to sit for a U.S. bar examination," the NLJ reports.

    Broadening the ABA's accreditation overseas would be in line with the globalization of the legal profession, the committee said. The panel cited figures from the National Conference of Bar Examiners that show between 4,000 and 5,000 foreign-trained lawyers sit for the bar each year in the U.S. If the ABA continues to limit its accreditation to the U.S., the committee wrote, states will be inconsistent in how they admit foreign-trained lawyers, according to the NLJ."

    This is simply keeping in line with ABA "Ethics" Opinion 08-451. Does anyone - even the slimy industry apologist cockroaches - still think that this corrupt and MORALLY BANKRUPT organization, i.e. the ABA, gives a damn about recent JDs and lawyers?!?!

    The party is over, lemmings. If you lack a brain stem, and still choose to attend law school in light of these decisions, then you have no one to blame but yourselves. The information is out there; it is available on the internet, and from frank discussions with current law students and (honest) recent law graduates.

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  35. Great now American JDs will have to compete with all the Raj Patels (Indian) and Charles Omotosos (Nigeria) of the world for those wonderful pro bono "work for free" opportunities. Thanks for looking out ABA.

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  36. Nando,
    I agree that most pre-law students have no excuse anymore. An exertion of even the smallest level of due diligence would reveal the realities of the law school scam. I wish your page, or another law school scam page, would appear at the top of the google / yahoo results page for the search "law school." I wonder how much it would cost to be a "sponsored link." I would gladly donate some money for this cause, though I don't have much. Its probably not possible since most of us don't have much to give. Just a thought.

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  37. On top of poor hiring numbers and (sometimes complete lack of) salaries, law schools are jacking up prices at such a rate that there simply isn't a justifiable reason to go to law school. You end up making less money per hour than your buddies after time value of money is factored in.

    You can read my research here: http://pullingacumberland.blogspot.com/2010/06/law-school-scam.html

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  38. Nando, check out this list of Best Value Law Schools:

    http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/best-value-law-schools-announced

    I see your beloved alma mater Drake has been supplanted by the newly ABA approved Phoenix School of Law. How does that make you feel?

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  39. I've found this website about a month ago and have to say I am really glad that people are speaking out against the law school scam.

    Back in 2008 I changed my mind about a month before classes started at my TTT. Everyone though I had lost my mind, but after seeing the position a lot of my friends were experiencing in the job market, it was an easy decision.

    Keep fighting the good fight.

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  40. Matt, good for you to get out of this steaming pile of crap while you still could! My husband went right up to 1 month before classes started and bailed from his TTTT. It just wasn't worth it. Who cares what people think? When they're saddled with thousands in debt and no job prospects in sight, they will be the ones who appear that they'd lost their minds.

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  41. nice blog .Our pension loans can be any size up to 50% of the value of your current fund. that's the best thing about pension loan

    ReplyDelete

 
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