Sunday, September 12, 2010

Fourth Tier Pile of Moist Excrement: Touro College Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center




Tuition: For the 2010-2011 academic year, a full-time law student at Touro will be charged $40,950 in tuition!! What’s that you say?! Part-time law students will only pay $30,660 in tuition for the same school year? Yes, that must be a big relief to these students.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+8

Ranking: This rotting pile is floating in the fourth tier of American law schools, according to U.S. News & World Report. Now that we have a firm grasp of the obvious, let’s move on to some brutal analysis.

http://www.tourolaw.edu/CareerServices/

Employment and Starting Salary Statistics: Apparently, the Career Services Office at Touro feels that it would be better not to publish/post employment or starting salary figures of its recent graduates. Or could it be that the school is so modest, that it would be embarrassed to post median starting salaries of $100K and a 98.1% placement rate?!?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

Average Student Indebtedness: Average indebtedness of 2009 TTTTouro graduates who incurred law school debt was $94,680. U.S. News also reports that 92 percent of this commode’s 2009 graduating class incurred law school debt. This is one hell of a price to pay for a useless TTTT law degree.

Upside of a TTTTouro “Education”

http://www.tourolaw.edu/Academics/?pageid=76

Unfortunately, the PI lawyer hack who is interviewing you does not care – in the slightest – about your experience on the Journal of Race, Gender and Ethnicity. Likewise, the insurance defense mill down the block is not concerned with your editorial/management style on the International Law Journal. (In fact, this school is such a festering toilet, it probably doesn’t matter if you are a member of the Touro Law Review.)

http://www.tourolaw.edu/AboutTouroLaw/?pageid=59

At the bottom of this page, you can see that the school offers its law students free parking!! Yes, you read that correctly – free parking. (All they need is a fax machine, and this school may find its way into the third tier – in next year’s law school rankings.) Well, why didn’t you list this on your home page?!?! Can Harvard or Yale offer their students free parking?!

Also, towards the top of the page, you can see that “Letters of recommendation are optional, though encouraged.” Are shirts and shoes required for attendance?

http://www.tourolaw.edu/pdf/Fall2010Schedule.pdf

Take a look at this TTTT’s offerings in its Fall 2010 Class Schedule. You can take courses in the following: International Sales Law, International Human Rights, Advanced Legal Research, Global Conflict Resolution, and Rights of Children. Yes, because Touro Commode Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center produces so many “international lawyers,” U.S. ambassadors, globe-trotting diplomats, and other heavyweights in the U.S. State Department, right?!?!

http://tourolawcso.blogspot.com/

What a great blog, huh?! How can anyone hope to compete with this blog from TTTTouro’s Career Services Office? This may explain why the CSO does not provide employment and starting salary figures.

Criticisms

http://www.notolawschool.com/2010/08/fourth-tier-bottom-feeders.html

For some reason, the school is described as a fourth tier bottom feeder.

http://www.notolawschool.com/2010/08/oh-crap-another-dean-speaks.html

Look at the comment, posted on 8/24/10 at 6:07 pm. Sounds like a gem of an institution, doesn’t it?!?! I wonder why the school does not include such remarks on its website or marketing materials.

http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/08/reader-king-obama-sent-me-a-blog-post-about-how-much-it-sucks-to-be-a-temporary-document-reviewer-in-new-york-city.html

Wherein Touro Law School is described as the “special ed” of law schools, by a commenter.

Conclusion: This in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion of “higher learning” is an overpriced diploma mill. A person could easily rack up $130K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE student debt - just for tuition. If you know ANYONE - family member, friend, co-worker, old flame, bus driver, your mortal enemy, the guy who takes your lunch order, et al. - who is considering attending this festering, sweltering dump, do the humane thing and refer them to this entry. You may save someone $180K in student debt - along with a lifetime of debt servitude, anguish, misery, depression, and debilitating stress. Remember, the stench of this place will stick with its graduates for a lifetime.

59 comments:

  1. In their defense, a prominent grad is putting her international law training by working in an offshore legal sweatshop in India.

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  2. This is their list of famous alumni, from wikipedia, and no, this is not pardoy:

    * Matthew Daus - Commissioner/Chair of the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission [1]
    * Hon. Rhonda Erin Fischer - Nassau County District Court Judge
    * John Flanagan, New York State Senator, 2nd Senate District.
    * Kenneth LaValle - New York State Senator, 1st Senate District. Elected to the Senate in 1976.
    * Christine Malafi - County Attorney, Suffolk County, New York. [2]
    * Kathleen Rice - Nassau County District Attorney (2005- present)
    * Hon. Anthony S. Beltrami - Judge, Court of Common Pleas of Northampton County, Pennsylvania [3]
    * Bikram Singh - housing attorney, said to be the most famous Bhangra fusion star in North America according to the New York Times.

    Oh the places you can go!

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  3. I am trying to think of a title for your book after your review these schools. How about: Law School Diploma Mills: Earn a festering, sweltering degree, with a lifetime of debt servitude, anguish, and misery. Perhpas you should do a top 100 commode book first. I think such a book could be very popular in Borders and Barnes & Noble reference section.

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  4. Why dont they just call it a place where you can get fucked by the Jews? Perfect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Orthodox Jews - there is a major difference.

      Delete
  5. I personally know of many Touro grads that are struggling with the JD stain on their resume. Unfortunately, many non-trad former civil servant workers are attracted to this roach motel of a law school known as "Fucksburg." The admissions standards are ridiculously low. In fact, I know someone who scored a 131 on the LSAT who got into two law schools: Cooley and the other one? You guessed it: Touro.

    If you are a 1L at Touro, let me break it down for you as to what your future will look like. Chances are in 3 years you will receive no offers to work in a decent firm or government agency. There are too many far superior law schools in this state alone, at least a dozen. You will be forced to move back to your parent's homestead in Suffolk or Nassau County and start a solo practice out of your garage. You will represent vagrants, DUI and speeders while trying to eke out those student loan payments. Talk about landing in Fucksburg.

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  6. If there were really a true oversupply of attorneys, then you would see BigLaw salaries drop significantly from an oversupply of Tier 1 grads. However, this really hasn't happened. BigLaw salaries have remained flat, but really haven't dropped at all.

    While some firms did retract and cut back on size, this always happens in a recession. Besides, the worst is over.

    P.S. Hopefully, Nando will figure out how to use logic to respond - and not third grade namecalling.

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  7. "Besides, the worst is over." Hahahaha. Why the worst has not even begun. Its only been dress rehersal. This is no normal recession, my Baby Boomer friend, but rather a depression that will last until the debt is deleverged. Pretend and extend is only delaying the financial reckoning day. Obama's Hope and Change which is really tax and spend is no solution.

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  8. 9:15, doesn't understand basic economics. BigLaw is not representative of the legal industry. It's like saying, "Things are not really that bad because Morgan Stanley's analysts are still being paid top dollar." When you have a privileged place within the American bureaucracy, you tend to keep your hefty salary.

    But even so, the recession did hit BigLaw. The class sizes were decimated, and many lawyers were laid off. When you lay off attorneys and cut down class sizes, you can cut down on costs while keeping salaries stable (in fact, this can even boost retained earnings).

    There is no "worst is over." The situation is remaining just as brutal for young JDs and young attorneys. Look for high unemployment and more rage among recent and future JDs in the months and years to come.

    All the scam-bloggers' warnings will seem prescient.

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  9. 9:15: BIGLAW could have easily hired TTTT grads for a fraction of the price for decades. They don't because it's like serving a Taco Bell taco at a Rick Bayless restaurant. Are the clients going to pay $100 for a 39 cent taco? Hell no! They can't hope to attract the multi-billion dollar clients if they fill their halls with a bunch of personal injury mill rejects.

    And yes, they need to pay the Harvard grads something for their trouble. They know that the majority of those people can find a job doing something else. If you could go and work for the government for the same salary as what BIGLAW is offering, but they offering 40 hour work weeks, nights, and holidays, where will the Harvard grad go? You need something significant to convince a person to work 90 hours a week.

    It's about like saying that the economy is great because the owners of Walmart have billions of dollars.

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  10. "And yes, they need to pay the Harvard grads something for their trouble. They know that the majority of those people can find a job doing something else."

    If there was such a crisis, then you would find BigLaw going for only $75k and MidLaw for $30k. Again, if a true oversupply of T1 law grads were competing for far fewer BigLaw jobs, you would EXPECT salaries to drop significantly because of this oversupply.

    However, the reality is that BigLaw salaries haven't dropped (only flat-lined). BigLaw still starts at $125k+. Therefore, an "oversupply" of T1 law grads isn't that excessive.

    The bottom line: This blog = Tempest in a tea pot.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "...if a true oversupply of T1 law grads were competing for far fewer BigLaw jobs, you would EXPECT salaries to drop significantly because of this oversupply."

    I wouldn't expect that at all. Your argument assumes that newly admitted T-14 grads are in a position to compete for BigLaw type clients. Can you imagine some corporation saying, "hey, why should I keep hiring BigLaw, when I can save some bucks by hiring unemployed recent grads to handle my legal matters?" People with financial resources won't hesitate to pay a premium for lawyers with lots of experience. You could flood a *million* recently-graduated unemployed lawyers into the market and that wouldn't change.

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  12. Fuchsberg Law Center

    A piece of shit by any other name would smell just as foul. (these kids are so fucked)

    ReplyDelete
  13. 12:12AM poster doesn't know shit about Biglaw or economics. Your point is logically flawed. Biglaw will not reduce starting salaries unless a V10 takes the initiative and that won't happen since that firm will lose its V10 standing. Not to mention clients will want a markdown of billable rates for junior associates. You don't see Mercedes Benz or BMW lowering the price of a SL65 or a 745i just because people aren't buying them like they did 5 years ago. There can be a surplus of these cars and I guarantee these luxury brands will not drop their prices. Thanks for playing 12:12.

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  14. Biglaw salaries are where they are at because biglaw competes with each other to keep them high. It has nothing to do with supply and demand.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Touro exists solely to make students at other NYC area TTT's feel better about themselves. Back when I was in law school during the go-go late 90's, whenever a HYS would be hired over me, I would console myself by thinking "hey, at least I dont go to Touro." Those kids were fucked back then when jobs were falling out of the sky, so I can imagine how screwed they are now since the Suffolk DA cut back on hiring. Also Touro's claim that its presence near the CI courhouses, and Katleen Rice's AG candidacy will some how lift it out of the sewers is laughable.

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  16. I was "accepted" by Touro without applying. I had never even heard of the place, but I got a letter saying they had waived my application fee, and that I should fill out the paperwork quickly so the classes don't fill up. It was like having an encyclopedia salesman come to my door and say that the price was increasing tomorrow so we had to buy today! Oh, and it goes without saying that they "accepted" me without having seen any transcripts or anything... ostensibly they are privy to LSAT scores.

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  17. Please don’t make race an issue, 6:02 pm. In fact, this school is a place where Jewish students can get screwed too.

    http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28603

    User “MTal” posted this response to the original poster, who wanted to know if anyone would share carfare with him from Brooklyn to Touro:

    “Withdraw from touro before it's too late...otherwise your life is over.”

    The original poster’s TLS handle and follow-up comments indicate that he is also Jewish. So, on this thread, one Jewish person is trying to help another to avoid MASSIVE student loan debt and pathetic job prospects. Further down the page, another user recommends CUNY-Queens. The original poster then commented on March 13, 2008 at 1:47 pm, where he notes that he was rejected by Pace, NYLS, and that his application is still pending at CUNY:

    “yes i am frum and live in brooklyn (boro park) i applied to nyls pace cuny and touro
    accepted at touro, rejected at nyls, pace and cuny still pending
    i happen to be chasidic (full beard and peyes) hence i dont expect to be hired
    by a fortune 500 company
    my goal is to pass the bar and open a practice in boro park/willamsburg section
    of brooklyn to serve the chasidish community
    cuny would be ideal the low tuition and location are great and im saying tehilim every day
    so i should get accepted
    i will appreciate any input from forum members chasidish or litvish”

    I sure as hell hope that his man DID NOT attend Touro. Especially, since he is planning to open a practice that will serve a limited clientele. One simply does not need to take out $120K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt to help out his community.

    In the final analysis, these diploma mills DO NOT CARE who they screw over. If you have a pulse and the determination to become a lawyer, then these toilets are thrilled to take your (borrowed) money. When you cannot find a job, these festering cesspools will then turn around and say, “Our job is to teach you the law. We do not guarantee employment. You paid for a service, and we delivered.”

    Of course, these swine will not admit that teaching legal theory is different from teaching “the law.” Are most recent grads able to competently file motions in limine, argue 12(b)(6) motions in court – without pissing their pants, or to even provide sound legal advice to clients?!?! Furthermore, three years of law school does not even adequately prepare students to pass the bar exam!! Conversely, imagine if medical students spent $240K to learn how to theoretically treat and cure patients.

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  18. "They know that the majority of those people can find a job doing something else."

    I'm not even sure that is true because we have no evidence that the worst is over - not with laid off lawyers pimping for manual labor jobs - and there are too many lawyers who have no idea how to make the transition from law to another field.

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  19. Nookular Don,

    "Your argument assumes that newly admitted T-14 grads are in a position to compete for BigLaw type clients."

    My point assumes that new T-14's (or even T1s) are in a position to compete for BigLaw JOBS (not clients - clients are irrelevant). My point was that since BigLaw has laid off, there are/were more T1s "on the market." Therefore, if the job market was so pathetic, then you would see BigLaw salaries drop because of the T1 competition for few BigLaw jobs. However, we haven't. Therefore, I think recently laid off T1s have simply found resiliency and just stepped into other attorney positions.

    Besides, new grads should be learning how to make a job - not how to get a job.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "Besides, new grads should be learning how to make a job - not how to get a job."

    Above posted by Dumbshit at 9:37,

    What other tripe do you have to offer? if I find a unicorn, do you think it will lead me to a pot of gold?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Nando, I find your useage of the above photograph to be highly offensive. The picture is of horse dung. I consider horses to be graceful animals that have an element of class and stature. Nothing associated with Touro can match or reach the level of horse dung. Perhaps if you had put of a picture of platypus dung, it would be more appropriate. Thank you.

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  22. Hey Nando- I sought some advice on one of your other articles. Like to talk to you bro

    ReplyDelete
  23. 10:07 = comment of the year!

    ReplyDelete
  24. TONS of vacant commercial real estate here in metro Detroit--TONS. You would EXPECT that rents would fall through the floor. They haven't. In fact, they don't even budge, and there are commercial vacancies in downtown Detroit up the wazoo. Go figure. Something to do with elasticity of some type, I guess. Why, I don't know. But just because thee is a huge oversupply of something--doesn't necessarily bring the price down. Interesting topic.

    ReplyDelete
  25. "Besides, new grads should be learning how to make a job - not how to get a job.

    September 13, 2010 9:37 AM"

    There's only one problem with that. "New grads" don't know how to practice law. A carpenter who can't saw straight yet can't "make" a carpentry job.

    Maybe SOME kind of job, just not carpentry.

    Reminds me of once out on the golf course years ago, I remarked to someone playing through, who golfed really well for an old guy, how many people were "golfing" these days.

    The old-timer replied "Well, let's say there are many taking up the game."

    ReplyDelete
  26. I hate to complain, but that excrement doesn't appear to be as "moist" as you claim. It looks a little dried out to me. I think this is a misrepresentation on your part. BTW, I luv perusing your site during lunch hour!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Touro, my maligned alma mater, how they disrespect your sanctified halls. Others call you a bloated over-priced toilet school, but when I attended (1990) you were more like a bottle of Two Buck Chuck at Trader Joe's--costing $7500 per year.

    After graduating, I moved to the Southwest (think Breaking Bad) took a state gov job representing rapists, murderers, and thieves (besides that they’re good people). The work allows me to argue a lot w/ cops and still afford good beer--pension’s decent too. I owe it all to Touro--a shining beacon of higher learning set amidst the bucolic potato fields of Suffolk County.

    I feel for you kids w/ that fucked up $ Albatross.

    ReplyDelete
  28. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100719064934AATUb0g

    This poor soul wants to know which law school is better: Nova Southeastern or Touro. I guess he has not read the comments on these blogs, or talked to any graduates of either sweltering toilet.

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/should_the_aba_accredit_foreign_law_schools/

    “As law practice becomes more globalized, it may well make sense for the American Bar Association to accredit foreign law schools, just as it already does with schools in the United States, a special American Bar Association committee has suggested.”

    Of course, these filthy pigs recommended that this morally bankrupt and corrupt body accredit foreign law schools. Is anyone with an IQ above 80 and a grasp of the legal job market – this excludes “Chris” in Indianapolis – surprised by this recommendation?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touro_Law_Center

    “Touro Law Center maintains summer programs, in China, Germany, India (the only ABA accredited program in India), Israel (Jerusalem) and Russia take place during the summer.”

    Why not approve foreign law schools? After all, TTTTouro has a summer program in India. Apparently, they want their students to be exposed to the culture, so they can prepare for their future “career” in Indian doc review, i.e. American legal discovery.

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_grad-turned-cupcake_entrepreneur_to_appear_on_food_feud_series/

    Brooklyn Law grad Lev Esker now sells cupcakes from a truck.

    http://beta.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2010/apr/08/trouble-with-the-law-laid-off-attorneys-pursue-new-paths/

    Look at this Pace-educated lawyer, licensed in both New York and Connecticut, who started out at $7.65 an hour at Radio Shack. As of this article, he was an assistant manager. That law degree sure paid off, didn’t it?!?!

    In the final analysis, Touro is a putrid piece of filth. Just look at Evrenseven’s comment at 7:33 am. He was accepted to this dump WITHOUT EVEN APPLYING – or paying an application fee. This dump accepted Evren without so much as looking at his undergrad transcript. Yes, what a truly pre$TTTTigiou$ law $chool, huh?!?!

    To those criticizing my use of horse excrement in relation to this school, I apologize. In the future, I will do my best not to denigrate horses, by associating their waste/fecal matter with such a filthy, disgusting, vile, toxic piece of trash such as Touro College Jacob D. Fuchsberg Law Center. Horses are graceful creatures, and one can actually acquire more useful knowledge by riding a horse than one can by attending this toilet. (And, this does not require $120K in debt or three years of one’s life.) In fact, I would be happy to instruct JJD or Lauren Graham on how to ride a horse.

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  29. This is a high quality blog. Thanks for providing this site. I wish to the heavens that I had avoided law school.

    I went to a middle-of-the-road law school that did well in the region. I had a decent job, and had a solid reputation in that field. But, I was lured in by the prospect, the concept, that a law degree would make me more marketable.

    My classmates and I were so excited to be part of this club. Orientation and the welcome barbecues played up well with the last nights of summer. I should have seen things more clearly. At one SBA cookout, I overheard some of the upperclassmen whisper to their friends that they were "still looking." of course, these stories were more than countered by guys and women on law review that told of filing a motion in limine just before the deadline. Others told tales of how their boss was demanding as hell, but that it was all worth it.

    I saw a few women at those get togethers who were married to law grads from the same school. Some of those men were unemployed, but chasing leads. But when you are in the midst of this thing, you don't see clearly. You don't llisten to reason, esp. if it comes from the naysayers. We tell ourselves that these people are just jealous or that they are miserable failures. We tell ourselves these things so we can justify our intelligent decision.

    Except that in my case this was not an intelligent decision. I had a heck of time even getting back to what I did earlier for a job. I can't blame them. Since I am the genius who took myself out of the field for three years. You who are in law school or are considering this option should give heed to these words,even if you think they come from negative losers. If you dont have strong to excellent connections, this will likely be you in a few years.

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  30. This is your colonel speaking. Have no fears of the legal market, Touro grads. (that is somewhere in new York, is it not?) This is your fearless leader and commander. I am here to tell you that there are indeed jobs out there, and not just in da hinterlands.

    We have created more jobs when others were telling us that the good ole' American job market was saturated. How'd we do this? Well, I'm glad ya asked. First, we started doin' rotisserie chickens. Next, we expanded add on items to complete our lovely 10, 15, and 20 piece family buckets. Now, you see how we have marketed ourselves as purveyors of golden crispy grilled chicked. We have also adde something called a chicken snacker, and then its close cousin, the double chicken stacker. It just happens to be a chicken strip in between a damn biscuited substance. Shit, we may move on to barbecued chicken. Do ya see where I'ma headin' with this?

    Here is what I can tell you Touro grads. if you finish at least in the top half of yer class, I can get you a job in our kitchen. Sound good? Onward, soldiers. Let's not give up til we take the fort. Onwardf to victory. Dontcha let the legal job market beat you down. Tell 'em the Colonel sent ya. Best regards.

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  31. Thank you sir. May I have another?

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  32. OH MY GOD!

    Col. Sanders is hysterical!

    I am going to favorite this page.

    I actually went to and graduated from Touro.

    Yes I am a fancypants Touro Grad.

    How many of you Magnificent Bastards can actually say that?

    I paint Houses for a living now, and am in close to 300 grand in debt, and counting.

    The old resume with Touro on it never did the trick. Touro never seemed to impress the want ads on Career builder or Monster.com. no matter how much I tried to rephrase it as "Legal Studies" or extra college credits with an emphasis on Law.

    I never understood why. Always blamed myself for not networking enough or sending out more hundreds of resumes. Stupid old dumb old JD that I am.

    But I am modestly happy now. Sometimes alcoholic. Sometimes suicidal. Divorced mainly over freakin paranoia over Student Loans.

    But the coffee pot gets me going in the morning.

    I would love to tell my tales about Touro.
    Of course my story is only a snapshot in time. One of many.

    I'll keep in touch.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Oh snap. I just saw that. Colonel Sanders is fucking hilarious!

    If you go to his profile, it looks like the colonel actually practiced law and then got himself disbarred for assaulting a client in court. Might that be one of his 11 special herbs and spices?

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  34. to 4:05:

    Thanks for the heads up.

    Still, the job situation he describes is real.

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  35. To 4:05:

    Yeah, now you are picking on the Colonel. a lawyer from Rural America that didn't even go the really expensive ABA approved Law School route.

    That makes you a big hero.

    You are picking on someone who got into the profession by a means even easier than through Touro.

    He probably spent a lot less money. And is probably in a lot less debt. And He is still funnier than you.

    But hey folks, how about that study abroad at a Touro Law School in India thing?

    Can anyone explain that?

    Is Touro in bed with the outsourced Indian collections and telemarketing industry?

    ...at the expense of the taxpayer who backs the Touro Student Loan borrower, who will never repay the impossible debt, as the entire faculty of Touro well knows, (or does not know about with an extreme degree of negligence.)

    Scienter.

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  36. Epilogue: After the nuclear winter settled, all the Tier 1 law schools were decimated. The dusted remains of the former tier one law school deans formed a toxic mist which blinded any who survived and walked the earth with open eyes.

    Suffolk county had survived the nuclear blast that leveled half of mother earth. Touro law school remained intact. Many Touro 1Ls emerged from the fallout shelters asking: "since most all of the tier one schools are gone, does that make us a third tier school?" The Touro Dean rises and says: "son, welcome to your third tier reality."

    Anyway this is how I envision Touro ever reaching the third tier.

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  37. Call Senators Durbin and Franken and your congressman to support the student loan discharge bill (S. 3219 or House version H.R. 5043)if you are unemployed, underemployed, have no hope of a legal career and are mired in debt and living a life of indentured servitude. This may be your only chance to do something about it.

    Student loans were dischargeable up until the banks reformed the bankruptcy code more to their liking in 2005.

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  38. Dick Durbin and Stuart Smalley are impotent when it comes to going up against the Sallie Mae monolith. If they couldn't do anything to enact a bankruptcy amendment to allow homeowners to cramdown their first mortgages on their principal residences, what makes college and law grads more sympathetic for bankruptcy reform? Answer: nothing. Kids by now should know that borrowing $100K to attend a TTT undergrad or law school is financial suicide. These people don't deserve mercy for their stupidity.

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  39. You are doing a great job, but please do Valparaiso University. Someone must expose this festering stink hole!

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  40. Keith B, you may contact me at nando9936@yahoo.com.

    To the Touro grad who posted at 3:53 pm, please feel free to give us more details on this dump. These types of stories keep me plugging away at this decrepit, foul industry. You describe your situation as that of a Touro-educated JD who now paints houses - and owes $300K in student loans. How many prospective law students imagined themselves selling insurance, working at Radio Shack, moving back in with their parents, living in a crummy apartment at age 34, or selling cupcakes from the back of truck - when they received their Acceptance letters to law school?!

    In the last analysis, Touro is a festering toilet of a law school – in EVERY sense of the word. For the uninitiated, here are the reasons why this school is a sewer: (a) it charges exorbitant tuition, i.e. $40,950 for one year of “legal education”; (b) the school is located in an expensive area; (c) the city has SEVERAL other law schools – including some elite institutions; (d) many of its students are in the part-time program; (e) Touro is ranked in the FOURTH TIER of American law schools by the only law school rankings scheme that matters, i.e. U.S. News; and (f) its graduating students can look forward to dismal employment prospects.

    In sum, the school takes as many students as it can cram into its entering classes, WITHOUT REGARD to the shrinking American lawyer job market. The commode simply wants to milk as much money as it can out of the federal student loan teat. The administrators of these toilets do not give a damn what happens to their graduates/former customers. They only care about cashing those federal - and private - student loan checks. For ANYONE considering this school, you have been thoroughly warned that this place is a diploma mill.

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  41. In some social circles, Touro is also known as Turdo.

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  42. This blog, and its comments, are absolutely hilarious. I like Col. Sanders.

    Seriously though, you guys need to get a job, get clients, or both. I know the market sucks; but you still need to do it.

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  43. HI Nando:

    I'm 3:53.

    I'm too tired right now to share too many Touro stories. But I will boys and girls.

    I was painting all day, and then ran over to another job to tape and spackle. The customer heard from someone that I went to law school, and I quickly denied it.

    But like Maurice Chevalier: Ah Yes, I remember Touro Well."

    There was someone I called "Dean Tuck" who used to walk into the bathroom with a wierd uptight smile, and a newspaper neatly tucked under his arm.

    The faculty Hippie Contingent. One professor handed out reading materials on witchcraft in a classs called "Jurisprudence".

    The assignments for that class were ridiculously easy. Write a two page paper about "Anything", which I did, and ended up with a B+ for the course.

    Otherwise I would have flunkdid myself out of Touro yesiree,and right quick!

    THere were a few other classes just like that after the first year. They were called Electivces. A really easy A or B, without which I would have never gotten my GPA over 2.0

    To 3:46.
    I get clients. Painting customers, and selling a necessary service like painting is a helluva lot easier than selling legal services.
    Just look at the Yellow Pages when you get a chance.

    And it is a helluva lot easier than selling Insurance too. After leaving Touro, I was basically out there in the blue riding on a shoeshine and a smile, until I learned the difference between Touro and Shinola.

    But you dast not dare blame Willie Loman.

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  44. Law School Reform must happen!.

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  45. I love it!!

    I attended TTTOURO for one year before transferring the hell out. Let me break it down for everyone.

    (1)
    The law professors here are incompetent. They have no idea how to convey information to the students. I sat through one year of classes at this dump - every thing I learned was self taught or from old outlines. The professors here would never under any circumstance be allowed to teach at any other school.

    (2)
    The Administration and Staff are extremely rude and no its not a "New York" thing - these people are genuinely disingenuous - the head of the department will most always be in a "meeting" or on "vacation" - and ofcourse even if a deadline is coming up, they will simply respond " i am not authorized to answer that question".

    (3)
    The location of the school in relation to the court really has no benefit for the students at the school - there is nothing terms of internship/clinics/summer jobs/clerkships available. Its simply a marketing ploy. They attempt to have this situation mirror how a medical school is often located near and linked to a large teaching hospital. The main difference being that that aside from location - Touro has absolutely beneficial links - educationally or otherwise - with the Courts. In addition, there isn't a single Touro Law Grad that works at the federal courts in any type of legal capacity. You will spend most of your time admiring the courts from a distance - and will learn to admire their structural qualities.

    (4)
    The school is DEAD LAST in the New York Legal Job Market. In the NYC area alone Touro competes with the giants NYU and Columbia, not to mention Fordham - as well as Brooklyn, NYLS, Cardozo, CUNY, St. Johns, Pace and Hofstra. In addition you have Ivy League Cornell, as well as Buffalo, Albany, and Syracuse. But wait! It doesn't end there - you have to add in Harvard/Yale also Virginia, Duke, and the D.C. schools - GW, American and Georgetown. WHEW..21 schools, and i`m being nice.. I could have added U of M, UPenn, and Rutgers. --Do you see what i`m getting at?

    (5)
    You may be thinking to yourself - "Well ok - I`ll think outside the box and apply all over the country". WRONG - ask people in the midwest/south/west if they have ever heard of Touro - they will most likely think your talking about the lawnmower. ( www.toro.com)

    (6)
    Touro loves to tout that it is a NYC school. Many students come here with grandiose visions of living it up in the NYC nightlife to take a break from their studies. That is until they actually arrive at the school - and find out its really located in Central Islip. Its a one and a half hour ride by train to the city for the price of $40 round trip (unless you buy a monthly pass for 300+ dollars). The train is about the only option, because the drive is about 2 hours in traffic (on a good day). The students will shortly come to realize that they have been gipped and are stuck in the illegal migrant worker infested hellhole, that is Central Islip NY.

    Thats about all I have for now - more to come soon. I`m very pleased about this blog..i`m glad someone has the balls to expose this school and the law school scam in general.

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  46. I`m pretty happy this article has came out. I attended TTTouro the TTToilet for a year before transferring. Simply put - if your parents are paying the 40k a year tuition - DO NOT GO.

    The financial aid department at this school is all of ONE PERSON and her useless secretary. In my estimation - about 35-40% of the students here use financial aid. (Those poor bastards)

    Take a spin around the parking lot sometime...in the student section you will see an inordinate amount of Range Rovers, Mercedes, BMW's, Lexus - as well as many other brand new mid-range cars. Not being anti-semtic here - but the more average looking cars are driven by the jewish kids - who you now are loaded, but who's parents are thrifty (not necessarily a bad thing).

    Its sad, but when you are in class and in/around the school you can honestly clearly decipher who takes out student loans, and who doesn't - and the quality of students suffers as a result.

    There are three types of kids that go here
    (1) Scholarship kids who transfer the hell out (me for example)
    (2) Rich kids (who are just there for something to do)
    (3) Non-Scholarship/Rich kids (these are the ones that really suffer)

    When I see story about the painter 300k+ in debt - number (3) from above are people I see joining him in a hurry. They have to take out the maximum yearly allowed by federal and grad plus loans to cover the tuition alone. On top of that they have to take out high interest private loans for living/food/clothing/travel and etc.

    I knew one girl that sold her car just to come to Touro. I seriously wanted to ask her "why in the hell would you do that to yourself?." She is living in an unfinished basement apartment, taking 10 minute cab ride to the train station - and then a 40 minute train ride just to come to school every day. WOW - you just have to feel bad here.

    Its honestly unethical to allow this to happen to people. But with more law schools opening by the year - its just going to get worse and worse.

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  47. I don't know what it is like by train, but
    anyone who is familiar with getting around Long Island knows that Islip is a difficult location to commute to by car.

    The South Shore of Long Island is generally like that.

    It is all about jumping on this highway, and onto that parkway. Go a couple of exits and off and onto another one.

    Strip malls all over. Once off the highway, lots of lights. Crazy drivers everywhere.

    Try to get there during Rush hour and be prepared to wait.

    Now...I live on the North Shore of Long Island, and we generally laugh at all that.

    And we can get into NY City Lickity-split.

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  48. The clowns at this pile of shit probably think they'll actually have a chance to land a job at a any law firm and I have to admit they are correct. However, the job will be CLEANING THE TOILETS, not doing any legal work.

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  49. Graduated from Touro early 90s on a 50% scholarship. Didn't know any better and never consulted with my college pre-law counselor. Classmates were mostly pretty smart folks with lower LSATs, mixed with a small minority for whom law school was a dream which Touro fulfilled.

    Passed the bar. The job offers were not plentiful, but I found a job; next job was better, next one even better, etc., and now I have a good gig with a near $200k salary. My former classmates today practice in solo or small firms, larger firms, government and corporations. We had to be scrappers, and I consider my career and those of my classmates successful. Would it have been easier coming out of a tier 1 or tier 2 school? Of course. But was the degree worthless? Ridiculous.

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  50. Graduating from a trash school like Touro will get you a law degree and you can work for 5-10 years to a decent salary if you're good, or you can start at $160k in your 2L summer coming from a higher tier school, same price, not the same outcome. The fact is most employers laugh at you if you have a Touro degree, trust me I know 3 recent grads who were basically laughed at. The employment stats are so bad they stopped publishing them a few years ago lol. The last figure was 1 graduate per year got a job in a NY law firm, compared to hundreds at 2nd and 1st tier schools, so yeah, the truth is you have no shot even if you're top of the class at this pile of shit. Boutique firms will hire you though, the same way they will hire you to make coffee during the summer. Whoever this clown is who graduated 20 years ago who posted above me needs to wake up bc in 3 years at any major firm you make $200k a year. I know plenty of people who make over 100k with no loans and a few years experience in business, so why the fuck should you pay over $40k a year for some bootleg law degree from a shit school like Touro?

    At least if you graduate from New York Law, you can sell cupcakes lol.

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  51. I agree with November 13th guy.

    I graduated from Touro in 1994 very near the top of the class. Like him, employers weren't exactly knocking down my door, but I got a job quickly enough and consolidated my loans into a 30 year payment plan. I'm at my third firm since the first firm I was with, but I'm now a partner at the firm making good money. Unlike the article, I didn't go back home to live with Mom and Dad -- I moved out after law school and began to live like an adult. I buckled down, cut any expense that I could, and as my salary increased, I paid over and above the minimum monthly payment. Bonus money and tax refunds didn't go to pay for vacations or new consumer goods, but to pay off my student loans. My 30 year loans were paid in full in 12 years. I own my own home. I own my own car. I have no debt.

    To say that I could have done this without Touro's diploma is idiocy. Sure, it wasn't easy. And I remember may weeks when all I ate was pasta with some sauce because that's all I could afford. But I did it, and the diploma helped me to do it.

    And, in a roundabout way, I met my spouse (a lawyer) because I went to law school, so I even credit Touro for that bit of happiness (we didn't go to the same school).

    So yes, it may not work for everyone. Just like college doesn't work for everyone. Just like vocational schools do not work for everyone. But to say the diploma is worthless is wrong.

    Oh, and to the guy above, you're right. Very large law firms pay much more than what I make, even for associates with less experience. However, these associates work 80 hour weeks, at minium. They have no life. They burn out pretty quickly. I don't compare myself to them, nor would I want to. I also don't compare myself to Mark Zuckerberg, who also managed to make a ton of cash with less of an education that mine. The fact that he could do it does not in any way lessen my accomplishments.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hey Anon - Jan 12 @ 8:00 AM

    Congrats to you, fucktard. You graduated in 1994 - that's practically eons ago as far as law is concerned. The economy was growing, your tuition probably didn't cost half as much as it does now, and there weren't nearly as many TTTTlaw schools or lemmings.

    In other words, you are comparing apples or oranges. Or more appropriately, piss and shit.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You cannot compare the 1990s economy to what is going on since 2008, the alleged "recovery" has not been a recovery as far as jobs are concerned. Economic growth has only been fueled by Wall Street and its only the bankers making the big money.
      The legal market is in shambles, its so bad that I see some law schools advertising, New York Law School has advertisements at bus stops, mentioning a 2 year JD degree. New York Law School unlike Touro actually has a rank. Touro is listed on US News with no ranking. That sounds bad.
      This is where the legal profession is headed, into the crapper.
      I also do agree that tuition for law school and for higher education continues to increase to astronomical levels while the return on investment decreases, in other words going to school just does not pay like it used to in the past.

      Delete
  53. January 12, 2011 8:00 AM:

    Yes, good for you, but please, stay within this century. Next, we'll be hearing of the relative successes of the "Greatest Generation" and I think we've covered that well in other forums.

    ReplyDelete
  54. November 27, 2010 5:37 PM:

    5:37, same thing, ancient history, the early 90's, give us a break. Good for you. Modern references only, please.

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    ReplyDelete
  56. Touro is the pits

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    Replies
    1. That is true, its even worse than going to the CUNY Law School, and that is BAD. I think Touro in general seems to run like a for profit, they have "campuses" all over the city and the country. They seem to be a no frills higher education institution, they do not have the visibility of the major national universities. I think Law School these days is not worth the investment unless its a big name program like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc.

      Delete

 
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