Thursday, October 14, 2010

Sickening Fourth Tier Stench Pile: Thomas Jefferson School of Law



Tuition: For the 2010-2011 academic year, a full-time student at Thomas Jefferson School of Law will pay $38,700 in tuition. A part-time student at this private institution will only be charged $27,000 for the same school year.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+8

Ranking: Okay, tuition is expensive and the cost of living in San Diego is a bit pricey. But certainly the school’s reputation will justify such costs, right?!?! Well, somehow US News & World Report lists this school as floating in fourth tier wasteland.

http://www.tjsl.edu/career-services/career-services-staff

Career Prospects: Here is the group of (useless) people who will help you find a job…if you are among the top ten students in your class. Apparently, this festering pile of excrement cannot afford to list employment placement and starting salary figures.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

Average Student Indebtedness: According to US News, the average indebtedness of Class of 2009 TTTThoma$ Jeffer$on $chool of Law grads who incurred law school debt was $131,800. Furthermore, this magazine reports that 95 percent of this toilet’s 2009 graduating class incurred law school debt. THIS SCHOOL HAS THE HIGHEST AVERAGE STUDENT INDEBTEDNESS OF ANY LAW SCHOOL IN THE NATION. What an accomplishment for a fourth tier pile of putrid filth, huh?!?!

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/330/696/2009-330696561-05f521aa-9.pdf

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Go to Page 24 of this sewer’s 2009 Form 990. There you will see that dean, president and “professor of law” Rudolph Hasl made $363,025 in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2008. (The idiots managed to misspell his name as “Roudolph” on the tax form.) Yes, you read that correctly. This “educator” made $302,390 in base compensation; $29,719 in bonus & incentive compensation; $10,547 in other compensation; $14,700 in deferred compensation; and $5,670 in non-taxable benefits.

But that’s not all. Susan Tiefenbrun, “professor of law” and director of “the Center for Global Legal Studies” made $165,543 in total compensation for the same year. And let’s look at the total compensation figures for the following TTTT “law professors”: Kenneth Vandevelde, $179,735; William Slomanson, $176,980; and Julie Greenberg, $164,348.

http://www.tjsl.edu/about-tjsl/deans-welcome

“Our new campus in Downtown San Diego will further enhance that tradition and transform forever the way in which the School is viewed in the world of legal education.”

Yeah, sure it will - and Salma Hayek, Lauren Graham and Jessica Alba are coming over to my pajama party this weekend. Yes, a new campus will exalt one from the status of a laughingstock to a world-renowned institution, right?!?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_School_of_Law

“The Thomas Jefferson School of Law was originally founded in 1969 as the San Diego campus of for profit Western State University College of Law and operated as such until 1995.

TJSL became independent in 1995, and was granted provisional accreditation from the American Bar Association in 1996. It was given full ABA accreditation in 2001 and joined the Association of American Law Schools in 2008.”

This school was a branch of We$TTTTern $TTTTaTTTe Univer$iTTTTy Commode of Law, the school that needed to wait 43 years before receiving ABA accreditation. Who knows? Maybe, TJSL was able to get a fax machine sooner than Western State.

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/reviews-visits-and-rankings/go-thomas-jefferson-school-of-law!-on-the-rise-)/?PHPSESSID=ed25ce4b19b7b6422f593e15a95a21fe

Of course, the school feeds off of delusional lemmings such as the one on this LSD thread. Apparently, one of the administrators of this dump offered her extra blankets during a cold (San Diego) winter. Yes, that is much more important than job prospects.

http://www.all4jds.com/group/asg/18/aft/13885/showtab/groupforums.aspx

Read the comment from "Bondtrader," to gain a better glimpse of life for a Thomas Jefferson Sewer of Law grad.

Conclusion: A person could EASILY graduate from this festering, foul TTTT dump with an additional $180K in student debt. Don’t forget that you will be competing against graduates of Stanford, UCLA, USC and Cal-Berkeley in the hostile, treacherous California legal market. You simply do not need to take out $130K-$180K to land a job making $35K, genius! Why spend this amount of (borrowed) money for a degree you will be too embarrassed to display?!

In the final analysis, this school is a pathetic piece of waste. It charges exorbitant tuition, and happens to be located in a pricey area. How the hell is a TTTThoma$ Jeffer$on $chool of Law grad supposed to find work that will allow him to re-pay his loans?!?!

I realize that Thomas Jefferson penned some beautiful prose regarding concepts such as equality, freedom and liberty - all while owning hundreds of slaves. But even he does not deserve to have one of the most egregious toilets in the entire land named after him. Furthermore, Jefferson never set foot in California - and it was not part of the Louisiana Purchase. Apparently, “law professors” are bad at geography and history, as well as math.

89 comments:

  1. Wow. I feel honored and privileged to be the first to comment on "Cooley." I know a couple individuals that graduated from this school. One's a hack, the other is a nice guy who is just "trying to make a living" doing real estate. This school has consistently received flack over the years and a full-fledged dump of a law school. Recalling back to my days looking at law schools, it seems this school lures you in with the bait of scholarship money and then pulls the rug out from under you leaving you stuck at a crap hole AND paying full freight. I've read horror stories from students of this school that if you miss x number of classes per semsester or class, you get written up. Anyway, I have a meeting to attend now, but let this shit fly...

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  2. "Apparently, one of the administrators of this dump offered her extra blankets during a cold (San Diego) winter. Yes, that is much more important than job prospects."


    Don't mock the gift. More TTTTs should give their graduates such practical items. A few more blankets, a shopping cart, and a reservation under a freeway viaduct and this poor delusional soul will be set for her post-graduate life.

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  3. My Bad. I guess I wasn't fully awake when I wrote my comments. Document review at 9:00 a.m. has that effect. It's Thomas Jefferson, not Thomas Cooley. Either way, a crap hole...

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  4. Let me simplify a universally accepted rule of thumb for all the prospective law students out there. With the arguable exception of George Washington, any law school that is named after a U.S. president or U.S. or State (e.g., Thomas Cooley) Supreme Court Justice is a TTT/TTTT not worth the price of admission. Attending these schools will increase your chances of being on a collision course with financial ruin. Don't say we didn't warn you.

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  5. I got into this school *WITHOUT APPLYING*. I got a letter in the mail after getting my LSAT score that said I can pay my registration fee and sign up for classes before they get filled up.

    I had a coworker who went to this school. He was incompetent bordering on unprofessional. I had to spend weeks after he got canned fixing his crap. To be fair, it's in San Diego. A great place to blow $150K.

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  6. Ok the relevant questions I have for this school are:

    1)Do they have a working fax machine with a good ole reliable analog line?

    2) Will they make special accommodations for people with mental disabilities (i.e., special exam rooms that will permit me to listen to a Tchaikovsky concerto [listening to classical music assuages my hyperactive disorder] while I prepare a hornbook like quality exam answer and allot me a masseuse that will massage my hands, wrists and knuckles [in addition to my mental disability, I also suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome which is a legitimate physical disability recognized under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990] in between the extra time I am given)?

    3) On account of my disabilities, will this school give me a free ride with room and board expenses included? Given that I suffer from hyperactive disorder, I cannot deal with the stress of having a scholarship contingent upon GPA minimum requirements so the free ride would have to be unconditional.

    If this school answers yes to these 3 questions, then I may strongly consider attending this school.

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  7. Over the past two years, two of their graduates posted on JDU:
    Grad A was working as a Bell Hop/Bartender, trying to find whatever work he could.

    Grad B was working as a Real Estate Salesman/Mortgage Broker. You can guess how that is turning out. They both stated that Career Services was a joke. Both graduates job searches were generating zero results, despite the usual: good grades, top half of class, and law review.

    This school has a LLM in Tax and Tax Cert. I do not know nor have heard of any of their grads in Tax in my area. I am mentioning this to steer away potential victims.

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  8. 10:49, Would a happy ending massage from a lovely, dainty Vietnamese allow you to concentrate further on the exam? We seek to comply with the ADA.

    TJSL admin

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  9. 3x burned in marriage poster checking in.

    I see this blog has moved on to browner pastures.

    I really can't comment too much on this particular school since I did not know it existed until this afternoon. This blog may be actually helping the Jeffersonian School of Law in increasing its profile. Remember, any type of free publicity is good publicity.

    I do have some words of wisdom for the kids considering this school. If you are considering this school, then you have an uncontrollable gambling streak in you. Why gamble on your life or future? Instead of throwing that $150K into this place, borrow those funds and go to Las Vegas. I would rather blow the $150K at the Bunny Ranch and at the craps tables than give it to this school. At least you will have a wonderful and memorable weekend that you can tell your grandkids about on your death bed. And best of all, you can file for bankruptcy and tell the casinos to "eat it." Now if you invest the $150K in Jefferson, sure you will live in nice sunny San Diego for 3 years but you don't need $150K to do that. You can live in San Diego for $10K a year. SO what will you get? A worthless diploma from a place that no one knows of. How many law schools are there in California now? 12 or 15? I bet the law schools outnumber the auto mechanic schools there.

    Practicing law in California is comparable to the fate of lemon shark stuck in a 25 gallon tank filled with other lemon sharks. The tank is so full that no shark will be able to move or eat, and each will die of starvation. Is that what you want for $150K of loans that you can't get rid of in bankruptcy court? Hell between my third wife and this school, I would rather give the $150K to her for a weekend of services. And trust me, I resent giving that harlot a red cent. That is all.

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  10. Beware Thomas Jefferson. I know many graduates that are miserable as they cant find work and have huge amounts of loans to pay. I know a 2008 graduate that had a BA from USC in business, went to TJSL, failed the bar 3 times. Never found work. Had to attend counseling to help with his severe depression.

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  11. If you look at San Diego law firms, you very rarely see a single associate from TJ.

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  12. How many phreakin' law schools does California need! First step is getting rid of those non-ABA approved turds.

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    Replies
    1. Nope - free-market at work. CBE schools level the playing field.

      Delete
  13. 12:02PM back.

    I apologize for not including a usual helpful tip with my earlier post. That was becoming my modus operandi. Alright since we are talking about soul crushing student loan debt and disabilities, I figure I can connect the two topics to come up with a helpful tip for the recent law grads out there looking to get rid of their student loan debt.

    Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy unless you prove undue hardship in repaying them. Guess what? Under most tests, mostly modelled after the Brunner test, you can prove prong number 2 by showing (drum roll please)...that you have a disability (permanent would be preferred). You still have to prove prongs 1 and 3 but 2 is often the hardest and what is mostly missing from most student loan hardship adversary proceedings that I have seen filed. Now that you have this knowledge, don't go jumping off cliffs or ramming your head into a Lousiville slugger. And that kids concludes today's lesson in student loan dischargeability in bankruptcy. Trust me, your bankruptcy professor in law school won't teach you that morsel of wisdom. Instead he/she will bore you to death with useless drivel about the absolute priority rule.

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  14. From the Land of the Delusional:

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/thomas-jefferson-school-of-law-san-diego

    "I toured the three San Diego Law Schools before I choose TJSL. I was accepted and/or wait listed at two other top tier schools (not in CA) but ultimately choose TJSL. Why? Because the overall feeling at TJSL is to help you SUCCEED! I got that feeling immediately!!! Cal-Western was all about if you FAIL you're OUT. If a school is focusing on your failure-then so will you! If your school is focusing on your success, you will succeed! USD was a BITCH fest, I couldn't believe the unprofessional tour guides I had!! All they did was complain about the students, staff and facilities-why go there? Oh because the "prestige" will get a job?! Well to the employers out there- enjoy these whiners!!
    TJSL has one of the most DIVERSIFIED campuses period!! I took a critical race course where we had more than 10 races, cultures, countries and religions represented! The discussion were unbelievable- this helps the community at large because future attorneys from TJSL will have had POSITIVE experiences will multiple races, religions and cultures and will have (hopefully) worked past any biases they may have had.
    Finally, San Diego is a beautiful place to go to school! (And I came from Hawaii!) So when your brain is fried and your sick of the law library just stepping outside will rejuvenate you- as well as the BILLION of activities available.
    Overall, I forsee a great future for TJSL and their graduates!
    Glad I to be a Alumni in 3 days!!"

    This “Leinani K.” idiot compares this school to Cal-Western - another fourth tier pile of excrement.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+6

    Another moron, going by handle “Deborah C.,” added:

    "And a note regarding post-graduation employment: If you work hard, you will get a job. A J.D. from TJSL does not carry with it the pedigree that a degree from Harvard or even USD does. But for the most successful students, that has only pushed them harder. We will not be handed a job based solely on where we graduated from. Instead, TJSL gives students the tools to make it in the real-world."

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure a Harvard law degree is more impressive than one from TJSL. Also, we are aware that TJSL gives students the tools they need to "make it," i.e. blankets and space heaters. Here is a list of things the sewer of law also needs to provide to its students: used clothing, jackets, a bag full of cans, newspapers, shopping carts, bus coins, and some change so they can take a shower at the Y.

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  15. http://www.lsatprepcourse.com/Law_Schools/Thomas-Jefferson-School-of-Law.html

    “Average indebtedness of 2008 graduates who incurred law school debt $105,264

    Proportion who borrowed 90.3%”

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

    However, US News lists these figures, for the TTTThoma$ Jeffer$on $ewer of Law JD Class of 2009: $131,800 and 95 percent.

    So, in the space of one year, average student indebtedness increased by $26,536?! That is quite a discrepancy. How did that happen? Did tuition increase wildly over the course of a single school year? Then again, the first figure comes from LSATPrepCourse.com - which is all about getting as many asses in law school seats as possible, i.e. they have no loyalty to truth or honesty.

    http://stu.findlaw.com/schools/usaschools/california.html

    To the commenters asking about the number of law schools in the State of California: inquire no more. Findlaw lists 41 law schools in this single state. Yes, FORTY ONE law schools, from online schools to Stanford. (To be fair, some of these trash heaps may no longer be in operation.) The pigs even named schools after Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy. In fact, Lincoln has TWO law schools named after him in California. Yeah, just what he always dreamed of, right?!

    Look at some of the turds listed: California School of Law; Empire College School of Law; Golden Gate University School of Law; Monterey College of Law; Northwestern California University; Oak Brook College of Law; Santa Barbara and Ventura Colleges of Law; et al.

    There are MANY others, but I am actually getting physically sick from looking at this list.

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  16. The only school that people in San Diego should consider is USD. Not sure why there is a need for Cal Wes/TJ.

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  17. "Browner Pastures" so funny.

    But schools like this give new meaning to the sport of bungee jumping.

    Weeeeeeee!

    Student Loans are Fun!

    Happy Halloween!

    Check it out:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Fdqlk_UF0

    I wish I could say I am only kidding. Sometimes I am, but still....

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  18. There was a guy on Bloomberg radio a little while ago.

    It seems like I heard him from another time--maybe ten thousand years ago in length and distance. Yet still here as I look around a lighted room.

    He is talking about 10X earnings for some Companies yielding 3percent, and he sounds so positive and sure of himself and the future.

    He must be a God. Harvey Isen. Talking about no brainers like Proctor and Gamble, McDonalds, Microsoft, Verizon.

    He has to be God, and I will twitch nervously as I pray to him, and ask for his forgiveness for my terrible sin of student loan debt, and for my shame in front of all the world of taxpayers. Even Korea is ashamed of me, because the Korean citizens now have to stand up for my disgraceful Student Loan debt.

    The Chinese must positively hate me, and to them I apologize, as well as the the people of Russia.

    I remember a story by James Joyce, where a kid was getting a beating by his father, and cried out that he would say a Hail Mary.

    I will say a Hail Mary, and watch the ladies creep all along the yellow wallpaper. God do they bother me. Are they witches?

    I think I'm going to paper my walls now with the huge file of paper correspondence from Sallie MAe and all of the other debtors.

    It will make everything better. Don't you understand?

    It will be beautiful--like a telescope into the wonderousness of creation.

    It will be the hit of the next House Beautiful edition magazine.

    Genius.

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  19. Hey 3x divorce survivor: who gives the best head? Russian women? Comely Brazilians, or Thai women? I would figure Thai women. Vietnamese and Filipinos go down like they mean business. What is your experience? As a shitlaw school grad we both knbow I have no shot in hades of finding out for myself. Thx.

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  20. And here I thought all along this school was named after a famous African American man that made it big in the dry cleaning business and moved up to the eastside to a deluxe apartment in the sky...

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  21. I'm not the man that lived through three ugly divorces. And I don't like asian women, as I like women w/ large eyes. (We all have our preferences. Some guys go crazy for women w/ nice feet.) But I would have to say that based on my experience American white women give great head. Especially those married to biglaw associates wokring 85-90 hr weeks. When hubby is killing himself to make partner, I am playing hide the salami with his wife. Sometimes, ya need to teach her how to give oral (no hands, just tongue). But she picks up on things fast. Meanwhile the poor sap paying for her lifestyle is wearing himself thin with worry and stress. I say keep things as they are. Don't change ennything about how lawyers are trained.

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  22. here is something you can do with a TTT law degree.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZPGxnAJ2f8&feature=related

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  23. Though I understand the worry that flushing these turds gives them more publicity then they deserve. I nevertheless believe that Nando and the rest of the law school scam bloggers are doing a public service.

    Before I ran into this blog community, I used to think that:

    All Lawyers are Rich;

    There are Cushy Jobs reserved for Lawyers;

    The Law is a respectable profession;

    It is easy for Lawyers to get connections to the powerful, in case they want to run for public office;

    Law firms are like Crane, Poole, and Schmidt;

    Law Schools teach Law students how to practice law, or at least how to pass the Bar Exam;

    A Law degree has a good return on investment, and every employer is thrilled to see one on a resume.

    The Reality Apparently is:

    2/3's of Lawyers are broke;

    There are jobs reserved for Lawyers, but Document Review is a shit job, not a cushy one;

    The law profession is a caste system which destroys the lives of idealistic poor and ethnic minority people;

    If you don't have connections to the powerful by the time you enter law school, it's going to be hard to find a job, let alone run for office;

    Law Firms are like Glengarry Glen Ross;

    Law Students teach themselves law or pay outside experts money to teach them, Nevertheless, law schools are not ashamed to collect tuition for legal education;

    Non-legal employers don't care about law degrees, Legal employers think someone with a degree from a low ranking school is Not Good Enough (And that someone with experience at Doc Review is Damaged Goods)

    I always knew that Lawyers had problems with Alcohol and Suicide, But I always thought it was from the stress of their high-powered jobs, not the harsh economic and social reality they exist within.

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  24. 6:34 Continuing.

    Before, I would not have felt bad telling someone that they could go to law school. Now I would not wish it on anyone, and will tell people to avoid it if asked.

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  25. 4:35PM:

    When it comes to oral copulation among the groups previously discussed, I would rank Brazilian women first, Thai women a close second and Russian women a distant third. My last wife was part Ukrainian and part Greek and she always delivered 10 out of 10 times--but that was before we got married. After we were married, she began giving excuses for not performing felatio. She would say things such as "We are trying to have a baby, no sex except vaginal sex." Or "Do you want to kiss the mouth of the woman who will bear your children after a blow job?" After marriage all she obssessed about was having a child because it would trigger child support and higher alimony in the event of a divorce. She was a suka сука.

    Anyway, the best oral sex I received was during my first year as an associate. I was put on a due dilligence assignment relating to a utility privatization deal in Argentina. I remember spending Christmas and New Year's in Buenos Aires. I met a beautiful woman whose parents had immigrated from Italy during World War II. She asked me if I wanted to be one of the few select men to start the new year off right. I said sure so that night around 11:55PM she began to felay me on the balcony at the hotel I was staying in. She made me climax precisely as the church bells were ushering in the New Year. It was an unbelievable experience, one I will take to my grave.

    Back to the Jeffersonian School of Law. This place reminds me of my second divorce. After walking out of the courtroom, another man tells me "at least they let you walk out with your pants on." I replied: "Are you kidding me? Can't you see my pants are around my ankles? I just got gangbanged by my ex, the court, her lawyer, my lawyer and probably the court officer too, no lubrication either." The story about this school and one of the administators giving out a heater and blanket is just plain bullocks. I mean, if this school is going to fuck someone's life over, the least they could do is give a proper reach around, not a fucking blanket.

    I simply cannot believe there are 41 law schools in Cali. I suppose that is enough law schools to earn the legal education system in Cali "cartel" status. Yes, our own version of the Cali Cartel.

    Would I hire a Jeffersonian law grad? Put it bluntly, I would rather hire the group Jefferson Starship to sing at my next wedding before I employ a Jeffersonian law grad to scoop my dog's turd droppings. That's just my humble opinion.

    3x divorce survivor

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  26. 10-14 @6:34

    Everything you say is true.

    Quite simply, it is a very bad idea to go into law, and will be fo many years to come.
    How many years ? I don't know.

    The exception being getting into a top school, as this message is repeated over and over, and can't be repeated enough.

    What is especially true is that the JD does not help, and in fact harms you for non-legal employment.

    You end up becoming a fish out of water, and after a while with ruined credit, and heavy student loan debt. Totally trapped.

    A vicious cycle. A bad credit score means no good job prospects, no credit card for an emergency, a car loan, if you get one, at above 16 or 17% interest.

    This stuff really does happen.

    The suicidal thoughts will always be nagging you, and no therapy in all the world can erase the money you owe.

    Damn my side hurts. I have to lay off the beer for a while. They say the liver can heal up, and I need to give it a chance. I can't remember much of what I did last night.

    I don't get the DT's, but I have terrible dreams sometimes about insects crawling all over me. One time I dreamed that I opened an egg carton, and each comprtment contained a large spider on its back, with the contracting legs in the air.

    I woke up out of breath and totally freaked.

    But I never go to bars, or drive the car.
    I guess I am an anti-social drinker in that sense. Poor Nando gets to deal with it instead.

    One time a guy at an AA meeting told me that he used to see little crustaceans or sea monkeys crawling around, and when he was wide awake.

    Another guy little people climbing out of cracks in the wall.

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  27. Nando,

    SOme of my posts are completely crazy when I am crazy drunk. And the blow-job talk is funny to a guy, but it probably will make a lot of women angry and offended.

    Unlike some other bloggers, why do you keep TTR completely unmoderated?

    I am just curious.

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  28. Also, if any of you are living in your parents basement, you might be familiar with a particularly horrible little fellow known as the "Spider Cricket" or "Camel Back Cricket.

    The normally live in the ground, but when distrubed end up--guess where--the basement.

    They can grow quite large,and their antennae are quite long.

    They can jump up to five feet high,and land audibly because they have some weight.

    Try chasing one around and try stepping on it. Not so easy to do because they are fast.

    Glue traps work. And there is nothing more pleasant than seeing a glue trap full of these things.

    Better yet, call an exterminator on a regular basis.

    Someone recommended a Geko. But my dog would chast the geko I think.

    So it is now past 9, and I have to postmark my late tax return.

    Have a good day everyone.

    From the basement.

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  29. Prior to this year, I was unaware of a law school scamblog movement. Today I read a story that actually made me shake my head. 55,000 kids took the LSAT last weekend. With all the overwhelming evidence out there that a law degree is the modern day equivalent of iron pyrite, people are still applying en masse to go "all in" on a worthless product. I bet Bernie Madoff wishes he had become a law school owner since he would have achieved his wealth without the fear of criminal prosecution. Which raises the question: how is it that these schools that blatantly engage in consumer fraud are immune to criminal fraud prosecution? Money is being extracted under false pretenses. It should be an open and shut case. Yet, more law schools continue to open (as is the case in California with their law school cartel) their doors for business. And the trend will get worse. Last year there 44,000 law graduates. Apparently there aren't enough seats to accommodate the 55,000 that just took the exam. I predict more law schools will be built. Want to stop the madness? Take the scamblog movement outside of the blogsphere.

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  30. Painter guy,

    I keep the comments section mostly un-moderated, because I prefer when the threads take on a life of their own. After all, some people may not want to talk about Thomas Jefferson Sewer of Law. I sometimes will delete a comment that is racist or adds nothing of value to the discussion. As you can see, I also prefer to keep the comments of idiotic detractors such as Chris, the law student. I like the readers to see the weakness of my adversaries’ arguments. Plus, it gives me the opportunity to beat them down with the facts.

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/08/irate_law_school_grads_say_the.html

    “School administrators, who admit to keeping tabs on these so-called “scam blogs,” which now number in the dozens, bristle at the charge that they run diploma mills. Not every graduate can land a six-figure job at a big-name law firm — especially during the current downturn — but many still find fulfilling careers in and out of the legal field, said Claudette St. Romain, an associate dean at Seton Hall, one of three law schools in New Jersey.”

    Law diploma mill administrators admit to following these blogs, but they apparently do not have the balls to post comments on this board – at least, not under their real names. I have also offered to debate “law professors” and deans on the subject of the dwindling legal job market. So far, not a single person has accepted that offer.

    A few “law professors” openly support of the basic premises of these blogs – even if some have not actually endorsed the blogs. Brian Tamanaha (Washington U. of St. Louis), Lucille Jewel (The John Marshall Law School), J. Gordon Hylton (Marquette), Richard Sander (UCLA), William Henderson (Indiana-Bloomington), Herwig Schlunk (Vanderbilt) and Erik Gerding (U. of New Mexico) come to mind. In respective order:

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1640090

    http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/07/29/best-of-the-blogs-4/

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060_print.html

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2009/06/the-end-of-an-era-the-bi-modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SSRN-id1497044.pdf

    http://www.theconglomerate.org/2009/11/incredible-shrinking-law-school.html

    I suspect there are many others, who remain silent, either out of fear of retaliation by their employers – or because they don’t want to ruin a good thing.

    ReplyDelete
  31. why do people go to law school? Why is Vegas still open? Its all for the same reason.

    When most people graduate college reality is that you are qualified to sling burgers or serve as a camp counselor. You arent going to get an entry level job as vice president of a legit company. If you are lucky you might get a job in the collections department of a company someone has heard of. Otherwise its sales and you are the bottom guy on a pyramid. You are broke and in your parents basement. Great future right?

    Once you get out of college, that girl you dated and or graduated with actually gets to meet some guys with money or who know how to bs better then you do. Shes not going to blow you anymore. You want to keep up so what better way then to say im a law student. Most people dont know that does not mean anything and it buys you three more years to bs people about what you might become.

    Just like most people end up at shit colleges, most people in law school are in shit law schools. You just delay financial ruin. Yeah once you get out you are in debt and still live in the basement and lucky if you have a legal job at 10 bucks per. Lets suppose you get lucky and make it. You get a job and work a ton of hours. You score a hot chick but after I do she either sews it up or gets on others while you work.

    There is that small chance that you get a great law job, score a hot woman, and have that life that is what everyone wants. Its a small chance of it, but people go to law school to increase those odds.

    Ultimiately its the kids you went to high school with who you thought were losers who end up the best off. You know the type, dudes who couldnt spell anything more then their name and the IQ of a squirrel but when they got out, knowing they couldnt graduate any kind of school that required analytical thinking, they learn a trade, you know plumbing or hvac. They marry a dumb hot girl who has the same mental capacities and the money they make seems like they are rich. Student debt is non existant and if they get lucky and start making some money, which they should if they work hard, they end up better off financially then 90% of the kids who did the lawyer thing.

    The problem is that there are a lot of smart people out there who have no interest in being labled as a blue collar schmo. They dont call it the Blue Collar Comedy Tour or Hee Haw for a reason. They would rather take the risk and go to law school hoping that even if they cant make it in law, they are still considered smart and exceptional by society even if they work in a used book store at age 40.

    Image is everything and the bottom line is that most people dont have a gimic. They cant play guitar, invent a product, or create something want to see or enjoy. Law is a way to get rich but as with most ways, it is filled with more failings and miseries then most attempts.

    These law schools will continue to fill up as long as we are forced to see idiots like Snooki get rich being a complete pile of shit with no brains. These scam blogs are great, but ultimately they dont tell us anything we dont already know. We ignore it because the alternative is not much better. As you get older and realize life is not filled with pussy and cars on demand, you want to do anything that will make it seem like it could be.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Thanks for answering my crazy question, 3x divorce glutton. Now that there are no female readers left I can say this. it seems that most women quit putting out after that ring is slipped on their finger. When dating I had great sex. And I just paid for dates. Now that I pay the mortgage and all da fucking bills, I'm lucky to get sex more than three times a month. Shit, I would be happy to get laid that often come to think of it. If I want a nice blow job, I hafta go see my special girl. Thankfully her husband is completely clueless. come to think of it marriage is for suckers. It's a bigger con than this law school swindle.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I will not apologize to the female readers. I think my descriptions have been less than graphic and I have not resorted to using distasteful language or metaphors. If you ask me, women are more vulgar when they talk about sex. They project the prim and proper image in public, and before their men, but when they congregate in groups (e.g., girls' night out, bachellorette parties. etc.), they can be more carnally depraved than men.

    I found this out the hard way. During my last marriage, I had my home electronically bugged. For those on a tight budget, you can get a standard dictaphone or tape recorder and hide it somewhere your wife or girlfriend won't look (in my case, the cleaning supply closet/pantry areas worked). My ex-wife would have her friends over for Thursday night, which was ok because it was an excuse for me to go the Millennium Hotel to meet my paramour for the night (I had to get a girlfriend because my wife refused to provide me with services after we were married). During the girls' gathering at my home, they would often talk about (borrowing their crude language) "dick sucking," "cuckholding," menage trois, etc. It was during one of these sessions that I realized that my wife saw me as a meal ticket, much like those 55,000 LSAT takers see a JD as a golden ticket to riches. Anyway, I could not use the recordings in court proceedings but if I had, I think "Judge Dredd" (the nickname I gave the judge that presided over my last divorce) would have shown compassion towards me. Long story short, when in groups, women have filthier than sailors' mouths.

    My parting thoughts: marriage and law school are very related. In the end, you get sodomized that your soul becomes a numb void. Yet, people continue to get married and go to law school. These people are still living in the matrix and I decided a long time ago to spit out the blue pill and take the red one. The rest of the fools can continue to overdose on blue pills and live in ignorance.

    3x marriage gambler

    ReplyDelete
  34. http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-law-schools-inflating-job-prospects-as-they-raise-tuition/19673138

    55000 sat for the LSAT. The poor, stupid fucks.

    ReplyDelete
  35. On blowjobs. I once had an indigent client walk into my office with a very expensive boob job. She wasn’t the norm. Just the fact that she was coming to see me so early in the representation was unusual. What a stunner, utterly gorgeous and dressed like an upscale whore. Turns out, she used to be the significant other of a drummer in a world famous heavy metal band--she wasn’t lying either--I saw the proof. She became involved with a big meth cartel with ties to the Mexican Mafia. Her boyfriend along with the others involved got slammed hard by the Fed’s. After the heavy hitters went down for the count, her place was raided by the DEA because she was allegedly making “certain illegal arrangements” for her boyfriend while he was in Fed Custody. They only found a small quantity of stuff at her place but confiscated just about all her personal belongings. For a fact I know that the lead DEA agent was jerking off in his office to her videos--she had acted in some porn movies.

    So, there I am sitting in my office looking at her magnificently enhanced rack thinking why is this super hot woman in my office and is there any way I can party with her. Turns out that the Feds declined to prosecute b/c the quantity was too small, but the State was going after her. When I got the discovery on her case, I realized I had a winner. The affidavit for search warrant used by the Fed’s was never going to past muster in state court. I busted my ass on a suppression motion and won her case.

    Her mustang was still in the custody of the DEA and after court, she needed a ride back to the motel where she was staying. In the car, her blouse was unbuttoned just enough that I got a nice glance at her rack. We went inside her room to smoke a celebratory joint and I remember thinking to myself, is this unethical if her case is over? I had no idea, but I couldn’t pass up the opportunity--she was too hot Consequently, I lacked any restraint and we mashed together hot, fast and furious. At the last second, I sort of chickened out b/c a paranoid thought popped into my mind--you know, (her) drugs, porn, and I don’t have a rubber. I mean, I might enjoy taking a walk on the wild side but I’m not suicidal. Thus, all that was left was to enjoy her porn perfect rack while her highly skilled lips did all the rest. I still have fond memories of that client--we kind of liked each other.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Damn, even if you feel you didn't divulge too much information of her situation, you are really close to breaching attorney/client privilege.

      That and being unprofessional, talking about a client's capabilities for fellatio.

      Of course, this is all contingent on your actually being a lawyer. Let's be honest, it's the Internet, and it's easy to lie about who you are.

      Delete
  36. nice walk on the wild side. here's mine. i got a fantastic blow job in the law library from a co-ed(in a study room). still the best moment of ls for me. once during finals I stopped by her place when her SO was gone, and we had a great study session together. one time i gave her such a tremendous orgasm her toes nearly locked. other than that, ls is for schmucks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I REGRET ~staying at a TTTT because I was getting some of the BEST sex I EVER HAD!

      Delete
  37. To 3X divorced:

    I am 1X divorced, but that is enough for me.

    Someone once told me--a nurse actually--that worked for a NY Presbyterian Dr. (Late of this world) that after a divorce, a person should refrain from getting into another relationship for at least 3 years. 4 years is better.

    I didn't want to believe that, but it has been about that long, and I have to say that her advice is true.

    There is an old Nat King Cole Song--"Love is a many splendored thing"

    But Love in most cases is like a fragile plant that is carefully tended to and grows from there.

    There is a popular Country and Western singer-- that had a song, the lyrics of which said: "If you don't kill it. Love grows." I can't remember the singers name. I'll try and look him up. It was a nice song, and I thought it was really true.

    Remember Tevye's question from Fiddler on the Roof? "Do you Love me" And the response?

    OK there are cases of Love at first sight as some people claim. A stranger from across a crowded rooom.

    But do we live in a culture that really encourages or fosters true and enduring Love anymore?

    I would say our way of life pits people against each other in a desperate struggle for economic survival- so that there is no more room for the higher passions or the things that truely lead to happiness.

    The things that give dignity to a human being, and make us less like cave-men in a sense.

    As far as dirty talk goes, I hear it all the time and used to every day when working on painting crews. To the point I want to bend over and vomit in the bushes sometimes.

    I have an relative who has made a lot of money in the Pornography business. It is a rough business. Rougher than anything most Lawyers can lay claim to.

    Sometimes people timidly ask him a question about sex, and he tells them:

    "Look. I've been in this business over 40 years, and there is nothing you can say to me that I haven't heard already."

    I don't dispute anything you say, but take my advice--against your will if need be--the "B" word is a big no no.

    And my relative, who runs a "Fuck Shop" or Adult Video store, says that most people out there are lonely and not getting laid. Even people in the sex business.

    You wouldn't believe how conservative people in the Porn business actually are.

    It is just about money--as is Law, god forgive me for saying so.

    But at least the people in Porn are honest about who and what they are.

    Add Alcohol and drugs to the mix and the proverbial perfect storm.

    No disrespect intended to you of course.I didn't live your life, ust as you haven't lived mine.

    But thanks for the laughs.

    Just more ideas into the mix.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Here is a clip from an old B movie Horror flick.

    It was on TV one day during a rain delay for a baseball game a few years ago. IT really freaked me out.

    I found it on youtube, and, in some mad sort of way, I see it as akin to the situation of nubile young minds entering into law school--- only to end up being blown away by the "scaldies" (a scottish word for the settled people)

    For the purposes of my analogy--the well settled and profiteering and gun wielding law school administrators and faculty...T3 and 4.

    enjoy:

    Gurgle, gurgle...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwMb4poXErE&feature=related

    ReplyDelete
  39. Here is another funny clip "Akin" (oh that word)
    to the relationship between the student of law and the school. Lenny being the student of course.

    In the words of Sonny and Cher: "I got you babe."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GebMPnUUg44&feature=related


    Also, did you know that Ben Franklin, among other reasons, wasn't chosen to write the Declaration of Independence because the founding fathers were afraid his version would contain a hidden joke?

    Painter Guy.

    Good night.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Oops. I forgot.

    The Pyrite mentioned above is FOOLS GOLD!

    ReplyDelete
  41. Geez Nando:

    Great list above.

    Lucille Jewel should learn the most basic premise about writing.

    Simplify, simplify, simplify..or she will lose 99% of her audience.....

    She should really take her cue from Laura Ingalls Wilder--just "set things down" naturally, and uninhibitedly (spelling)

    As a great teacher, whose name eludes me now, but a teacher of the art of writing plays said:

    SIFYN----Save it for your novel.

    In other words again--keep it simple, and communicate rather than confuse.

    In her case not a novel, but a very ponderous and long winded house organ type of an article,that may never get to the point.

    What the fuck--I'm just an asshole living a blue collar life, but I can spot her pretensions right off and from a mile away!

    People like her are too afraid to live outside of their own little bubbles. So their language naturally contracts into a tight little zip file as a consequence.

    Well why not, and who can blame her or any other person situated like her.

    I'm going out for a walk now. It is nice and cool out finally.

    What she may never understand, as we do, is that writing, like playing an instrument-comes from the heart and not the head.

    It can't be taught.

    ReplyDelete
  42. In dedication to Ms. Jewel--

    Your eyes always on the moon--- but look around you once in a while.

    "You're no hazy maiden in gray."

    But then again there is Sweet Sandy.

    What a smile at 1:35. Hitting that sweet spot on the guitar.

    My kind of woman. A real woman.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O8HNggPoZs

    ReplyDelete
  43. People actually pay $38K a year to attend this piece of shit? Then I don't feel sorry for such goons. This shithole is down there with Cooley and Whittier in terms of reputation and that's no secret.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I think I've figured it out now.

    The Administrators and Faculty members at these 3rd and 4th tier schools are all participants in a type of Milgrim Experiment.

    Obviously, they must realize how much psychological, emotional, and financial pain and devastation they are or will be causing many of their students.

    Yet they continue to administer the pain because they don't want to jeopardize their own careers and incomes. And feel pressured into doing so as well by their own peers.

    It is worth viewing this clip, and thinking about the similarities I mention:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk

    ReplyDelete
  45. It coulda been worse for you law grads. This guy got fucked!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aQ9two44Nw&feature=related

    ReplyDelete
  46. BOOM HEADSHOT!
    BOOM HEADSHOT!
    BOOM HEADSHOT!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5_qlhjsusQ

    ReplyDelete
  47. DepressedveryDepressedOctober 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM

    Just found out I failed the bar exam in CT and NY. I was already unemployed and depressed. So I am seriously thinking about walking to the GW bridge and jumping off today.

    I can't believe how much of a fucken crock of shit this is. I spent 2-3 months and expended 2k to BARBRI. I studied (sometimes 8 hours a day) while my doutchbag friends from my TTTT shithole went out to drink and smoke pot all night. What did I do? Fucken multistate questions and essays.

    But you know what? I think I know why I failed. I want to share this because I want to help any prospective LS students understand something. I am not a great test taker. I never was. I scored a 18 on my ACT, a 150 on my LSAT, and failed 2x bar exams.

    How in the hell did I get into law school? Its not because I would be able to pass the bar exam. I understand now why I was rejected from all those T/TT schools.

    Let me just say that I am not stupid.

    I have a duel degree in econ/polisci from University of Illinois and despite it all I passed with a 3.4 gpa from my TTTT shithole on a C curve. I did moot court and I had several jobs with excellent recs. I am just not a standardized test person. I am confident that I nailed the essay portions of both the local and MEE. The MBE portion is what ass-raped me. Now that is no excuse. I plan to try again. But what makes me angry is that even while I was waiting here, I have no job. I can't get hired now anywhere. Who is going to hire a x2 fail bar examinee from a TTTT shithole?

    ReplyDelete
  48. @1:15--

    Don't do anything desperate or stupid.

    You very well may never get hired inside the box you are living in.

    But have faith and believe that life goes on outside of the nightmare of Law School. Even the sun on your face, or a drink of water is a simple pleasure that Lower tier Law Schools can never take away.

    Tomorrow is another day.

    Just keep asking yourself:

    Why didn't they prepare me for the bar exam for 3 years, instead of causing me to scramble and fail, over and over and over.

    What the hell is wrong with this picture?

    Believe me, I have thought of jumping in front of a train.

    Jumping off a bridge.

    Jumping off a Highway Overpass into the path of a Mac Truck.

    Sticking a gun in my mouth.

    Hanging myself.

    Putting the car in drive and putting my head in front of the front tire.

    Overdosing on drugs.

    Slitting my wrists while very high and drunk in a warm bathtub.

    Drowning from hypothermia.

    Throwing myself into shark infested waters.

    Putting a hose from the exhaust pipe into the car, and sealing off all the windows with duct tape.(with not too much gas in the tank)

    How long can this evil law school system go on?

    By the way, there is a short story by F. Scott Fitzgerald called: "The Rich Boy"

    In it, a man jumps off the Queensborough bridge, but lands on some steel before hitting the water. Splat!

    (I love that old beautiful bridge, as I do all the bridges in old NY.)

    ReplyDelete
  49. 1:15, Don't do anything rash. you are feeling down. Start a blog and tell your story. You are not stupid. This country lives on standardized test scores. Cut your losses and do something else. Try to turn your law degree into a positive on job interviews. Keep in touch and do things you enjoy. it'll help get your mind out of the dark place.

    ReplyDelete
  50. DepressedveryDepressed don't jump! Then the fuckers will have really won. Don't give them the satisfaction. Either take it again or put this law school shit behind you and do something else.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Ya Depressed don't jump. I did't pass either. It fucking sucks, there's no getting around it. We're screwed. I don't have a job either and loans are due next month. I recently applied for a job at a firm that wanted a paralegeal that had gone to law school, two days later I found the same job posted again!! So I wasn't even considered. I don't even want to be in this field anymore. I don't know what I'm going to do.

    ReplyDelete
  52. To 1:15,

    You should not let the result of a hazing ritual define you. Do not do anything rash. You do not want to let the bastards win. The reality of the situation is that these law school pigs and banksters do not care what happens to you. However, your family and friends will be haunted for the rest of their lives if you jump off the George Washington Bridge.

    There are accounts of people who committed suicide because of their immense student debt, in chapter 4 of Alan Collinge's book entitled "The Student Loan Scam." We do not need any more names on that list.

    http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

    Do not internalize this as a personal failure. The system is sick, as the JD Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates for a measly 28,901 jobs "requiring bar passage." The fact is that the schools are PURPOSEFULLY pumping out far too many lawyers for the number of available legal positions. Many licensed attorneys are unable to land legal employment. Tons of solo and small-law practitioners cannot make ends meet.

    http://beta.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2010/apr/08/trouble-with-the-law-laid-off-attorneys-pursue-new-paths/

    Mike Kremen, 2008 graduate of Pace Law School, passed both the New York and Connecticut bar exams. Guess where he ended up working at?

    "But for 27-year-old Mike Kremen, a law degree landed him a job as an assistant manager at Radio Shack.

    Kremen graduated from Pace Law School about two years ago – right when the recession was picking up and the legal industry started to hemorrhage jobs. He’s still waiting for his first full-time legal job offer. He says he might be the only employee in the history of this White Plains Radio Shack who’s passed both the New York and Connecticut bar exams."

    Again, put things in perspective. Spend some time with close friends and family. Figure out some options. DO NOT make any rash decisions.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I am not an authority on suicide. I do know that after my second divorce, the hanging judge forced me to get a $2.5M life insurance policy naming my ex as the trustee for my two sons. As depressed as the divorce made me, I wasn't going to give her the satisfaction of getting that money and squandering it away on Louis Vutton handbags and trips to Dubai. When all was lost, I found a renewed vigor for life. I joined the gym, lost 30 lbs., regained my six pack and brought my body fat percentage to 9. I started to travel to exotic places such as Hong Kong, Tokyo, Panama, Costa Rica, Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, Chile, Thailand and Russia. I realized that the misery we create in our lives can be defeated by a junketeer attitude. My advice to you: stop being a toileteer, become a junketeer.

    Don't give the sonsofbitches the satisfaction. My advice is if all else fails, move to Thailand or Brazil. Brazil will need many English teachers as they prepare for the World Cup in 2014 and the Olympics in 2016. Tell the student loan companies to "eat it" and invite them to track you down to garnish your wages 8,000 miles away. If you want to embarrass your alma mater, take photos of your diploma in seedy places/situations and spam their *.edu servers with the pictures. Have a hooker give a cleveland steamer on your degree. Film it and post it on youtube. The point I am trying to make is you need to live and become part of the cause, not a casualty of the scam.

    3x marital repeat offender

    ReplyDelete
  54. @8:55


    Sober guy here ready for bed:


    I wouldn't put it past the Student Loan Co's to require the implantation of a microchip prior to dispersal of the funds, so that they can follow the debtor's every move via satellite.

    But seriously, the nagging suicidal thought provoking guilt is hard to shake and always there, because the moralists, or those who proclaim "Individaual Responsibility" the loudest, say that it is "Taxpayer" dollars that are involved.

    So the educated, but under or un-employable debtor is perceived as an enemy of the taxpayer, and, in essence, the state, or USA.
    An enemy of Hot dogs and apple pie and baseball.

    Get told these things by people such as an Army Veteran,and the shame is heaped on the debtor even moreso. The last thing I ever thought, when I applied for Law School so long ago, is that I would ultimately become a leech sucking off the system (in so many people's minds that is)

    So in my mind, the only way to free the debtor from the stigma of being accused of ripping off the taxpayer, is to go after the debtor's respective law school for the money. Long before the loan inevitably triples or quadruples.

    Because--assuming that the system is indeed "Sick" as Nando says, and that Law Schools do in fact mislead and "Scam"--is it not really the Law Schools that are actually to blame for taking the taxpayer dollars, and then for shifting the responsibility and stigma onto the student?

    Nothing feels better than working out. Probably the most positive place in the world is the gym.
    But a cleveland Steamer? What is that? And I thought I heard it all.

    ReplyDelete
  55. DepressedveryDepressedOctober 17, 2010 at 2:16 PM

    Thanks.

    My g/f told me that I am being an idiot. She printed out a story about a 5x bar failure who is a senator or something in Alaska. Then she made some snarky remark about politics being the "haven" of failed lawyers. She said I should work on Carl Paladino's campaign. Yuck Yuck.

    But I appreciate the encouragement. I am going to try again in Feb. See if I can find some help in this godawful city. But in the meantime you will probably drop by some store in lower east side of NYC and I'll be behind the counter scanning your shit and telling you to have a "nice day." lol.

    I was thinking that it would be a good idea for someone with far more resources than myself, to start a job board for recent law grads. Sort of a cross-roads where we trade information and can vent. Possibly use each other to find work.

    I know that my TTTT shithole career services bitch was of no help. I have honestly never contemplated violence towards women till I had to listen that cunt tell me that I aught to think about going "back to school," for an LLM. Why? So I can blow another 100k in loans for a useless piece of gilded toilet paper?

    Well I don't think so. I have been applying for jobs in finance and such so hopefully I'll get lucky and get a hit. Those companies tend to be a bit more advanced degree friendly.

    ReplyDelete
  56. "What is especially true is that the JD does not help, and in fact harms you for non-legal employment." 10/15 @548am

    This is absolutely, positively and vividly true, a point which I cannot emphasize to the (non-elite)kids enough.

    The JD outside of law, for the UNCONNECTED or those lacking valuable previous working world contacts/experiences, will hurt you immensely with non-law employers. I must apologize, as I have said this numerous times: The JD is not a "booster" of some kind to your other choices lest law not work out, as it probably will not. Au contraire. Non-law employers LOATHE the JD of the unconnected person, and will grill him/her mercilessly as to why he/she is not "practicing law", but instead seeking to manage a Toyz R Us on midnights.

    Beware, unconnected little ones, of anyone who bullshits you to the effect that a JD will have value of some kind to non-law employers lest you not practice. Beware. It is a bowling ball around your neck.

    ReplyDelete
  57. I will stand corrected, but has this not been an apologist/shill-free post this time around?

    Refreshing.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Unfortunately, I am one of the lemmings that graduated from TJSL. More unfortunately I did know sites like these existed before going to law school. So consequently I graduated with $183,830 in debt. Yes, the school is a total rip off. Living in San Diego is absurd. My shitty apartment was $1,500 a month, and that was way inland. $1,500 a month in my home town would get you a 10 story house on 50 acres of land.

    Not that it matters but I have some of the employment statistics that they hand you at the grad fair. I find them very hard to believe.

    TJSL Class of 2009
    Total Employed: 84.7%

    Law Firm Practice: 58.1%
    Average Salary: $65,427

    Business: 21.9%
    Average Salary: $90,267

    Government: 8.8%
    Average Salary: $56,186

    Public Interest: 6.9%
    No Salary Listed

    Judicial Clerkship: 6.9%
    No Salary Listed

    Academic: 1.3%

    Timing of Job Offer:
    Before Graduation: 53.4%
    After Graduation, Before Bar Results: 30.1%
    After Bar Results: 16.5%

    Pursuing Advanced Degree: 4.2%
    Seeking Employment: 11.1%


    Since the bar passage rate in CA is so low I moved back to my home town, only to end up failing. Guess I'll be taking out another loan.
    Seriously, never go to law school!

    ReplyDelete
  59. Current student of TJSL here:

    It's all what you make of it. What kind of a fucking retard pays $1500 for an inland apartment? I'm $875 for a 1 bed + parking and utilities in old town. Go back to your piece of shit hometown and buy a house next to a corn field for that $1500.

    Typical TJSL moron bullshit.

    I love the school, but 95% of the people that attend here are complete and utter morons. Sadly that 95% has the loudest voice.

    ReplyDelete
  60. @ 5:27,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    "The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority."

    Yes, you must be one of the brilliant, amazing 5 percent at your law school. You need to check out the above link, kid. You clearly think too highly of yourself. NEWS FLASH: you are attending a fourth tier piece of excrement, which has the highest listed average student indebtedness of any law school in the country!!

    Also, I am not from Des Moines, idiot. Furthermore, my monthly mortgage (plus property tax and homeowner's insurance) - on my three bedroom, two car garage home with a large front and back yard - is less than the monthly rent on your dinky little one bedroom apartment. Good luck passing the California Bar Exam - and finding a job! When you have earned your TTTT law degree, let me know which Hot Dog on a Stick location you are working at. I'll make sure to put a dollar in the tip jar.

    ReplyDelete
  61. All I see here is a bunch of whiners. While at TJSL I earned two top summer jobs with the help of career services and because of these jobs I am getting call backs for permanent positions, despite the horrible job market (and I am not top 10% in my class). While at these jobs I met students from top tier schools (some Ivy Leagues) who told me that they had classmates who did nothing but complain about the market and couldnt get summer jobs and how their own law school sucks blablabla. Surely, I am not saying that TJSL is going to open as many doors as a top tier school but the point is that if you go to TJSL, and you are actively pursuing opportunities and not sitting on your ass and complaining about life, you WILL find a good job. So suck it up !

    ReplyDelete
  62. While researching law schools, I came across this blog. Definitely shows how many people have far too much time on their hands, specifically NANDO... Get lives ASAP!

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  63. 10:00 am had his little feelings hurt. However, you are MUCH better off knowing the realities of the industry NOW - unless, of course, you would prefer to learn this lesson at the cost of $100K in non-dischargeable student loans.

    If you are looking at Thomas Jefferson Sewer of Law, then you are a lost cause. Attending and graduating from such a festering toilet WILL NOT increase your "marketability." It will not allow you to "fight for justice" or any other such nonsense.

    Consider this for a moment: While the average student loan debt for TJSL grads from 2009 was $131,800, TJSL dean, president and “professor of law” Rudolph Hasl made $363,025 in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2008. How do you like that, dumbass?!?!

    In the end, I am just putting out accurate consumer info. What do YOU have against that?! Apparently, you are not a fan of the marketplace of ideas - and you feel that only the law schools should be allowed to publish this info. Go ahead, and enroll in law school, Lemming. It will not add one dime to my student loan debt.

    Lastly, a law degree is not versatile. Sure, the law school diploma mills will claim that it is - but what do you expect? Take it from Will Meyerhofer, a former Biglaw attorney who left law entirely:

    http://thepeoplestherapist.com/2010/11/03/extremely-versatile-crockery/

    "But there’s a bigger, broader problem with switching careers when you have the letters JD after your name: people hate lawyers.

    Why do they hate lawyers? A bunch of reasons."

    Get the point, Stupid?! You owe it to yourself to investigate and scrutinize the lawyer job market, as you are the one who will be "investing" three years of your life and taking out MASSIVE student loan debt. That means looking at the positives and negatives. Grow up and learn to accept reality. (I doubt that you will even read the Meyerhofer piece, in its entirety.)

    If you foolishly decide to go forward with this venture, do not cry to anyone. You have been thoroughly warned.

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  64. This blog is hilarious! Gotta love blogs and the lonely people like nando for spending so much of his free time to "educate" the world. I will admit that I was considering law school, but no longer am for some of the same general reasons mentioned in this blog and others, but here, your delivery takes away from your credibility, since you are so clearly biased - some people are still going to law school and having success afterwards. If you were presenting this information in a neutral, more professional manner, I would attach more weight to what is being said about these specific law schools. However, since it is from some bottom-feeder who graduated from law school who likely did not do enough to help launch a post-law school career, you have to view it as what it is - an angry rant. Who else would take the time to put all this information on the internet for complete strangers? Someone without a life! I fully understand how mad you must be though for flushing down three years of your life at Drake law school! What a bad choice that was! Is there write up on Drake law school on this blog? I would love to read about the futureless lemmings that they graduate - the frustrated bloggers of tomorrow! i.e., nando's

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  65. To the moron at 11:22,

    When have I EVER said that no recent JDs become successful lawyers?! While I am happy for you, with regards to your wise decision to avoid law school, I will not hesitate to shove your straw man argument firmly up your ass.

    Also, Idiot, I attended Third Tier Drake on a full-tuition scholarship.

    Lastly, this "angry rant" has been covered numerous times in the Washington Post, National Law Journal, law.com, Wall Street Journal Law Blog, ABA Journal, Slate, etc. How many times have YOU been featured or mentioned by any of those publications?

    Also, quite a few “law professors” have openly supported the basic premises of these blogs – even if some have not actually endorsed the blogs. Brian Tamanaha (Washington U. of St. Louis), Lucille Jewel (The John Marshall Law School), J. Gordon Hylton (Marquette), Richard Sander (UCLA), William Henderson (Indiana-Bloomington), Herwig Schlunk (Vanderbilt) and Erik Gerding (U. of New Mexico) come to mind. In respective order:

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1640090

    http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/07/29/best-of-the-blogs-4/

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060_print.html

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2009/06/the-end-of-an-era-the-bi-modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SSRN-id1497044.pdf

    http://www.theconglomerate.org/2009/11/incredible-shrinking-law-school.html

    For practitioners calling for much greater transparency, go to this site:

    http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentViewer.aspx?fid=6945bcc9-1e12-4ea1-8edf-aec6405d27c1

    For your viewing pleasure, here is my entry on Third Tier Drake. (If you had bothered to look for it, you could have found it. Do you also require assistance in wiping your own ass, mental midget?)

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2010/05/on-cold-seat-third-tier-drake.html

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  66. One, the real economics of law school do need more visibility, especially to potential victims. So thanks for the links.

    But

    Two, you're completely ignoring the realpolitik that success is largely based on networking and competency. If you can do both of those you'll be fine. If not, you're fucked.

    Three, because of two, the "tier" argument generally fails to consider anything outside the "typical (pseudo)-ideal" path of law school -->big firm --> overwork --> death in your Lexus /Lexis. There are plenty of us TJ grads doing fine, either monetarily because they met the test in two and worked for themselves or outside the NALP arena, internally because their goal was never to be a bigshot, or both.

    Four, please tell me to shove my straw man argument up my ass and what a mental midget I am. It really helps me that I can't just link to your blog (okay I can link to some of the links in your last comment) when trying to educate my friends considering law school.

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  67. I live in San Diego County and I've driven past this fraud many times. It's in a big Spanish Colonial building overlooking Interstate 5. Students probably watch airliners take off and land from Lindberg Field. The fact that the school has its name facing the freeway was a huge tipoff to me that it was some sort of for-profit with sharks handling the student loans. Their prestige is not burnished by the fact that an electrical generator store is next door.

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  68. I got into Thomas Jefferson and I received a above median scholarship to Barry University. Should I consider going to Thomas Jefferson over Barry?

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  69. March 16, 2011 9:41 PM

    If you decide to attend ANY TTT, the main thing to remember is...if your 1st year grades do not put you in the top 10% of the class, and, you are not independently wealthy and lack substantial connections to the legal community, drop the hell out.

    It's that simple. You MUST have superior grades if you attend any TTT. In law school, only the First Year counts.

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  70. January 18, 2011 2:04 PM:

    You are ignoring opportunity cost. If someone really has the requisite brain power, there are fields far more attractive than law in which to excel.

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  71. Each of our professors specialize in teaching one of the six core subjects which make up the core of the first-year law school curricula. In our classes, professors use the Socratic method, call on students, and ask them questions about the assigned cases – exactly as in law school. Each class will focus on one of the six foundational classes (Civil Procedure, Constitutional Law, Contracts, Criminal Law, Property, and Torts) all first-year law students take.

    famous law professors

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  72. ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. nasty. disgusting. why is there poop on this page.

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  73. This is an old thread but I feel I should chip in here, I agree with most of what was said about tjsl. They have always sucked. One thing that is ignored is bar passing rates. TJSL has consistantly been very low. You cannot practice law without the license, no matter how prestigious the school is. So, if you are considering any law school, especially TTT or TTTT, look a the bar passage rate. If the School only passes 50% of first time takers, you are crazy to go to that school. You are racking up six figure debt, how does a 50% chance of actually being able to practice law sound? So again, look long and hard at the bar passage rate because that statistic tells you more about a school than any other single factor. For example, TJSL usually scores in the 50's. USD and CWSL are usually in the high 70s/low 80's. So if you had to pick . . .

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, it's a joke with a good view of Lindbergh Field and the bay....when the lawl skool scam finally implodes, it will make a great office for an import-export business. A Chinese import-export business, but better that than letting it sit empty, right?

      Delete
  74. I went there, worked my way through school, graduated with $7,000 in loans which I paid off in two years, went to work for a top tier consultancy, left with a pension in the bank for my own solo practice and have been practicing for ten years. Am loving life.

    TJSL is like anything else, it's what you make of it. If you have no clue why you're going, then you have yourself to blame for what happens next. One of the distinct benefits of top tier schools is you can be a rudderless dufus and still come out OK. Heck, you might become President. If you go to TJSL, you better have a winning strategy.

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  75. $7K in student loans for a law degree in the 21st century? That's nothing. Go back to trimming your ear hair, pops. Quit acting like law school's a good route, you piece of shit.

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  76. If it's any consolation to its indebted student suckers, TJSL stands head and shoulders above its neighboring fifth tier toilet Western Sierra School of Law.

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  77. wow all my years on the internet and I just found your site. Thanks for the doses of reality.

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  78. Going to law school in the US is like joining the Communist Party in the old USSR. You don't have to practice law when you graduate, but you will always be able to convince people that you are down with the program, whatever the program may be. Branch Rickey, Larry MacPhail, Walter O'Malley, Tony LaRussa, Howard Cosell--all lawyers. That's just one one industry, there are many, many others where guys with law degrees are enjoying success while not practicing law. So TTT or TTTT makes no difference, pass the bar and move on to the real world.

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  79. In this thread:

    California Western students.

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  80. The fuckers administering TJSL are a bunch of cowards. The "school" is a racket, stealing money from a bunch of unsuspecting young people (and even a really old grandmother). They should be immediately and forcibly shut down and required to return all of the students funds/loans. I feel sorry for anyone attending this shithole.

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  81. To Whom It May Concern:

    I was dismissed from TJSL. Luckiest day of my life. Unfortunately I racked up about $120,000 in student loans first.

    It was a horrible school where all of the students are all either cut-throat bitches (or bound to flunk out) and the instructors are pompous a-holes that couldn't answer at least 50% of my law related questions.

    The dean, making half a million dollars a year, couldn't be bothered to deal with any matters other than saving the school from the brink of destruction when it nearly went totally bankrupt.

    The cost of "tuition" is greater than previously posted on this site.

    San Diego isn't anywhere near as nice as it once was. With the amount of crime everywhere, it's like a mini-east side L.A.

    Think twice before going. If you don't, you might find yourself in my shoes and kicking yourself.

    Some of the students they had admitted were exceptionally stupid.

    It's probably a better idea to not go to grad school than to go to this school...

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  82. I often thought that a class action suit against Pace Law School is a good idea. Upon applying we were sold a bag of goods (recall the thick blue book we were sent documenting NY lawfirm opportunities with most salaries listed in excess of 100k). I graduated in 2003 and worked consistently as an attorney but have never made enough to justify the school loan payment for this pricey education. 13 years later and despite reasonabe and progressive professional success, I am on an income plan with the DOE which greatly reduced my payment which should give you an idea of how out of whack the tuition is with future prospects and ability to repay even this far down the road. If I had known or was told the real truth (like I do now) I would not have chosen to take on this debt. Tragically, this story is echoed by many of my former classmates and colleagues.

    ReplyDelete
  83. I often thought that a class action suit against Pace Law School is a good idea. Upon applying we were sold a bag of goods (recall the thick blue book we were sent documenting NY lawfirm opportunities with most salaries listed in excess of 100k). I graduated in 2003 and worked consistently as an attorney but have never made enough to justify the school loan payment for this pricey education. 13 years later and despite reasonabe and progressive professional success, I am on an income plan with the DOE which greatly reduced my payment which should give you an idea of how out of whack the tuition is with future prospects and ability to repay even this far down the road. If I had known or was told the real truth (like I do now) I would not have chosen to take on this debt. Tragically, this story is echoed by many of my former classmates and colleagues.

    ReplyDelete
  84. I often thought that a class action suit against Pace Law School is a good idea. Upon applying we were sold a bag of goods (recall the thick blue book we were sent documenting NY lawfirm opportunities with most salaries listed in excess of 100k). I graduated in 2003 and worked consistently as an attorney but have never made enough to justify the school loan payment for this pricey education. 13 years later and despite reasonabe and progressive professional success, I am on an income plan with the DOE which greatly reduced my payment which should give you an idea of how out of whack the tuition is with future prospects and ability to repay even this far down the road. If I had known or was told the real truth (like I do now) I would not have chosen to take on this debt. Tragically, this story is echoed by many of my former classmates and colleagues.

    ReplyDelete

 
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