Wednesday, November 10, 2010

Merciless, Miserable Fourth Tier Dung Pile: University of Detroit Mercy School of Law

Tuition: For the unfortunate soul who decides to enter this stink-hole as a full-time law student, tuition for the 2010-2011 school year stands at $33,930! Yes, the sky is the limit, right?!

Total Cost of Attendance: Under the worst-case scenario, i.e. full-time status and living off-campus, a student will look at spending $23,728 in books & supplies; SBA dues; room, board & personal; transportation, parking, computer equipment; and loan fees. This would take the total COA - for one year – to $57,658.

Keeping in mind that this is a nine-month estimate by the law school, we can figure out that twelve month living expenses will add $5,115 to the tab, i.e. ($15,346/9)* 12. Transportation costs for the full year will add another $968 to the cost, i.e. ($2,904/9) * 12. This would bring the more accurate COA for the 2010-2011 academic year to $63,741.

Ranking: Do I even need to ask about this dump? As you can see, US News & World Report clearly lists this school as a member of fourth tier wasteland.

Employment and Starting Salary Figures: None listed, but you can have Lunch with a Lawyer. Oh wow! Unless Lauren Graham is playing a lawyer who is cross-examining me in bed, I’m not interested. Of course, you will probably get stuck with some PI hack, eating Fritos and bean dip - in his dinky toiletlaw office. And look! “Career Services” is nice enough to provide links to Simplicity,, and Solo Practice Workshop!! Don’t forget to attend those fifth-rate career fairs, lemmings. (However, you would certainly be MUCH better served by receiving a blow job in the law library.)

Average Student Indebtedness: According to USN&WR, the average indebtedness of 2009 DeTTTTroiTTTT Mercy Law grads who incurred law school debt was $107,139. To make matters worse, 81% of this unfortunate 2009 graduating class incurred law school debt.

Faculty and Administrative Pay: Now, let’s contrast the debt load of the students with the fat salaries of faculty members. For this info, we head over to page 17 of this 2009 Form 990.

We can see that then-dean Mark Gordon made $266,135 in TOTAL COMPENSATION – for 2008! “Professor of law” Stephen Mazurak made $187,228 in TOTAL COMPENSATION for the same tax year.

Distinguished Alumni: Yes, this list has people shaking in their boots. The second-most recent entry is for a 1997 graduate named Catherine Dritsas. I mean, who would dare cross this solo family law practitioner?! Also, 12 of the 15 distinguished alumni featured on this list graduated in the 1960s through the 1980s – with one from 1949. Oh well. I suppose “greatness” only occurs a few times in a generation.

Look at this SHAMELESS “professor’s” blog.

From May 8, 2010:

“The new post 9-11 G.I. Bill went into effect in August 2009. All veterans who served honorably at least 90 days after September 11, 2001 are eligible. The program covers the cost of the education up to the most expensive public education institution in the individual state. For some private universities, all or a portion of the remaining tuition is covered by the “yellow ribbon” program. The VA matches dollar for dollar, any contributions made by the individual universities.

University of Detroit Mercy is one of the few universities in Michigan to be part of the “yellow ribbon” program. Veterans may pursue not only undergraduate programs but also graduate programs, including the study of law.”

As you can see, this festering sack of fecal matter does not care if it needs to appeal to people’s emotions – in order to get more money from the federally-backed student loan system. While these veterans will ostensibly not incur any debt, the reality is that many of them will not be able to land a legal position, upon graduation. But, when have the law schools ever given a damn about that, anyway?!

Conclusion: This school is such a terrible joke that you need to land in the top 5 students in the class – to have a shot at decent employment!! You want mercy?! Take your ass to church. Beg forgiveness of those you wronged. This school will not have any such mercy on those who naively enter its doors. What does this diploma mill have to offer? “We are located in lovely, cosmopolitan Detroit”?!?!

Do you want to take out $130K for a worthless product? If your friends, girlfriend/wife and family expect you to make something of yourself, you look those bastards square in the eye and tell them that the family pet has a better chance of practicing law than a DeTTTTroiTTTT Mercy JD does.


  1. Just when you thought this site couldn't get any more brutal. The imagery is seriously making me sick. Why the hell did I come here after eating lunch.

  2. If I could be free of my Law School debt, I would gladly lick that toilet clean until I wore a holes in my tongue.

  3. Oops! Typos!

    I mean, I would gladly wear out my tongue in licking that bowl clean, if, in exchange, I could be free of my Law School Debt.

    I would probably die as a result, but what the hell, for all Intensive Porpoises, (serious-minded dolphins in other words) I am dead already.

    At least I would die Debt Free!

  4. I applied and was accepted to this school, and got almost a full ride scholarship. I would have been responsible for pretty much just living expenses. Of course I turned my nose up at it, stupidly thinking I'd be much better off at a second tier Chicago school. 6 figures in debt later, I know I made a stupid decision. This may be a crappy school, but I'd be no worse off financially than I am now. Of course this isn't really a relevant comment, this blog is directed at people who take out loans, but the point is, going to a school like this may be worth it only if you get a full ride or near full ride.

  5. It looks like the beer wasn't even digested.

  6. That toilet is actually cleaner than this fucking dump school. Keep dropping toilet bombs on these fuckers.

  7. wow, you would think 4th tier schools would charge less. maybe i should start my own law school. lol. just kidding.

  8. Detroit Mercy's law school is a 10th rate piece of shit!!!!!! My ex-husband went to this god awful school graduating in 2005. My life has been hell ever since. I'm sure his has been hell too, but I don't care. He has not paid a ^%@*%#)&@**!@ dime of child support in over 12 months. I wish he would walk into this bathroom, slip on the floor and break hjis neck. If anyone cares, he took out more than $100,000 to finance his legal education.

  9. Please kids, listen to me. Student Loans are a living death and Hell!

    "I shall die, but that is all I shall do for Death.".........

    I will not tell him (death) the whereabouts of my friends nor of my enemies either.
    Though he promises me much, I will not map him the route to any man's door.

    Am I a spy in the land of the living, that I should deliver men to death?

    Edna St. Vincent Millay

  10. Wayne St. laughs at Detroit Mercy.


    Topic: Is University of Detroit Mercy school of law a respectable law school?

    Someone named “Cathy” answered this foolish query with this soft response:

    “It's easier to get into than the average law school and isn't considered "prestigious," but it is accredited.

    Did you want to stay and practice in Detroit? If so, ask around at local firms, etc., to see what they think of the school. If not, then the school probably doesn't have a strong enough reputation outside the area to warrant your going there. If there's any way that you could get into a school like Michigan, that's where you want to go.”

    This is one reason why I write this blog. Someone has to provide brutally honest answers. Yeah, it’s also easier to sleep with unattractive women. Does that mean you should do so? (At least, in this circumstance, you will not have pissed away $100K and three years of your life. Plus, you get some action.)

    Seeing that this person does not know UDM Law’s reputation, she has probably never set foot in a law school. This is the LAST person who should be giving advice on a potentially life-altering decision.

    The University of Detroit Mercy School of Law is a pathetic piece of trash. A person would receive more respect if he earned his law degree from Costco, such as Dax Shepard’s character in Idiocracy. It should be noted that he played the role of “Frito Pendejo,” a public defense attorney.

    [walking through Costco] “Yeah, I know this place pretty good. I went to law school here.”

    Look, this poor bastard, i.e. “MetsNY” is at it again. This is beyond sad.

    “Can anyone tell me about the University of Detroit Mercy? I know it has a law school and is a Jesuit University but that's about it. I am interested in moving away for law school and for some reason I have been looking into this school. Michigan seems like an excellent state despite all the bad things I hear about the city of Detroit.

    Is the school right in the heart of downtown? Bad area or safe area? What about it's reputation?

    Anything would be helpful. Thank you.”

  12. Did anyone notice they stuck Mike Ilitch's wife on the list of distinguished alumni? I guess she didn't need to take out student loans. I wonder if she outfitted starving law students with some free pizza.

  13. I'd chop my own cock and balls off and eat them before even considering attending this steaming pile of dung. I get fucking sick just thinking about it.


    I found something you would enjoy, nando. I know you like gritty imagery. Well, here is Time's photo essay on the crumbling shithole known as Detroit. Why would anyone move to this location? Why?

    There are even three of the worst law schools in the country located there. You have Thomas Cooley, Wayne, and this pile of rubbish. They are all in Detroit. I'm being honest here. the schools are worse than Nando's images. Worse than even these wretched images.

    1. Cooley doesn't have a location in Detroit, actually. Their primary location is in Lansing and has several satellite schools, none of which are in Detroit. Also, WSU is a highly respected school in the Detroit area and firm associate hires and partners alike prove this, seeing as Michigan grads leave the state more often than they stay and MSU is just now climbing the ranks. But good point, you fucking idiot.

    2. The guy gets his information from Time magazine; of course he's a fucking idiot!

  15. @ 3:42 Oh My God! And thanks.

    ut still, you have to be kidding me? The UA theatre pics and the Motel pics make me want to cry. The overturned piano has to be planted, but still...

    Is it really THAT BAD?

    I don't travel around much, but still, how is is the rest of Detroit doing?

    Can anyone honest weigh in on this? As in telling the real story about how the city is doing?

    I've given up on the mainstream media as well as Conservative Talk Radio a long time ago. Too far to the right.

    As well as on NPR. Too far to the left.

    But Detroit is like a major organ in the Country of the US. If not a Heart, a liver,or a gall bladder, or something.

    It seems to be in bad shape, indicating death to the larger body soon.

  16. If you are a college grad thinking of attending a law school in Detroit, you are better off going to Somalia and becoming an urban pirate. Your mortality rate chances are about even (Detroit v. Somalia) but becoming a pirate can be lucrative as opposed to incurring life long crushing debt for attending any of these putrid "educational" gulags.

    The fact that there are kids posting these dumb questions (e.g., "I have a 2.9 GPA and a 150 LSAT, can I apply to Harvard Law?" or my favorite "Can you make $160K a year coming from a TTT?") on the internet signals that America is in a deep intellectual decline.

    If you have a BA, and are a guy with a round ass, you are better off going to the Philippines where you can be a buttboy for a wealthy American buggerer. At least you will get paid and perhaps get off if your patron has the decency to give you a reach around.

  17. This Post, and the few early comments, has to amount to one of the most upsetting of all Nando's Posts to date.

    How many Dtroit people are in Debt for one reason or another?

    And how many of them get calls or end up calling up some debt collector from overseas. From India perhaps?

    I can only imagine the horror of talking to someone from India who has a Detroit citizen's personal info. All of it. Address, Phone, SS# etc.

    Talking on the phone about a credit card debt with a person in God knows where place in India amidst the ruined and crumbling infrastructure of Detroit.

    Why has the United States Congress treated and punished the US citizen so badly?

    Why are the people of Detroit, and the rest of the major and minor US cities, and all of their children being punished with Debt?

    What crime has the US citizen committed to deserve this? A lifetime of debt in reward for higher Education. As punishment for doing everything right?

    Does education matter?

    Is life worth living when the pursuit of Happiness has been taken away by nothing less than a Despotic US Government that cannot make a move without Al Lord and the Banks telling it what to do?

  18. I have some sympathy for people who move to certain markets to go to TTT. But Detroit? Seriously? A dying profession in a dying city in a dying state? I would go to the for-profits in Florida 10000 times before I'd go to either of the Detroit turds. At least there you get some sun and some sweet latina ass.

  19. I agree with the poster above. Shit school in a shit city in a shit state. There also happens to be plenty of law schools in the state. How the fuck is the demand there for this many schools, when the place is an economic void at this point?

  20. This is a detestable entry, even for this blog's standards.

    People who go to law school in this day, lack creativity. Go to college, get a useless bachelors, then go to law school. That seems to be the blueprint default plan for life for a generation that is lazy and feel entitled to an upper middle class life. Well kids if you haven't done your research, this "profession" was put out to pasture a long time ago. We are seeing the decaying effects of the liberal ABA expansionist policies, the flawed "Cravath" model and of course the antediluvian socratic method model of legal education.

    There is a poster here who talks about the strawmen "Mike" and "John." Well let me tell you about a young man I recently met while getting my car detailed. He is 23 years old, went to community college and now owns a pesticide company in Queens, New York. He has 5 bed bug sniffing beagles and is making a killing by using CO2 cans to treat the rampant bedbug problem in NYC. He charges a standard residential rate of $750.00. Normally I don't pay mind to what people drive but this kid was driving a brand new BMW 5 series and had a very relaxed demeanor. Now compare this debt free enterprising kid with the legions of young folks who go head into the shallow waters of law school. This kid definitely pwned anyone who is in law school right now or is seriously applying to go in the next few years.

  21. Detroit? Who would have thought that when I actually watched Robocop back in 1987, it would actually come to fruition in 2010.
    The Robocop economy is here folks....and Dick Jones owns OCP!

  22. Bravo!

    Being a doc reviewer in the Detroit area, I find that most of my colleagues went to either Cooley or Detroit.

    We have people who were on law review and did moot court from these schools who are reviewing documents for a living in Detroit. If the top people in the class are doing doc review, I can only imagine how awful things are for the people below the median.


    I just saw Robocop the other day. Detroit really does look that bad. Holy sh1t.

  23. Detroit is such a shithole that the Bad Boys Pistons teams from the late 80s were too afraid to play in Detroit. They had to build the Palace at Auburn Hills so that Isiah TTTTHomas, Dennis Rodman, Bill Laimbeer et als. could feel safe.

    To 7:10PM: I remember getting a handjob from a hot Cuban female classmate at the Sunrise multiplex one hot and humid August Summer night in 1987 while watching Robocop. I thought man, this movie is too much fantasy. Who would have thought that the person who wrote the screenplay for Robocop was such a clairvoyant, espcially about Detroit.

  24. This has nothing to do with Detroit, but the film we saw depicted another terrible era.

    One time I had my mistress over and we saw Cinderella Man. We were both able to slip away from our SOs. I should say we saw part of the movie. After awhile I got the urge to eat her pussy hard. I locked her waist with my forearms and went down. She grabbed my arms with hers and she was rubbing her warm soles down my back the whole time. In a strange way this made it that much hotter. After that she spent the night. And the next mornig we had to sneak her out as my stupid gf came home from a trip with her family. I stilld dont know how she didn't discover us. She called from down the street and I had to sneak her out. God, I miss her. I'm tellin' you she gave some brilliant head as well. Never even used her hand either except to run her fingers on my sac while performing the act.

  25. Mercy School of Law is actually located two blocks from where they filmed this scene from ROBOCOP 2:

  26. detroit is a third world shitholeNovember 10, 2010 at 7:43 PM

    Also the smell was h-e-a-v-e-n-l-y. The mouthfeel was fucking amazing. I thought my dick was gonna explode while I was consuming her vag. And even after she went I stayed down there for a little while. To which she demanded I stop. I went on a little longer. Then she told me to enter her with my penis. I am only a man, so I did as I was told.

  27. In this scene, Dick Jones' OCP wrests control of Detroit from Kwame Kilpatrick:

  28. ....I'm not sure what to think about the cybersex goings ons ....

  29. @734:

    she wasn't your mistress if you only had a g/f and not a wife.

    also, no one here cares about your sexcapades unless you link to pictures.


    "People who go to law school in this day, lack creativity. Go to college, get a useless bachelors, then go to law school. That seems to be the blueprint default plan for life for a generation that is lazy and feel entitled to an upper middle class life."

    It isn't a lack of creativity; it's a lack of "viable" alternatives. Our dumbass parents and guidance counselors manufactured us with a retarded chart that said "get as much education as possible" without any consideration for debt or alternative explanations for the chart's results. Entrepreneurship used to be the backbone of America, but it was never even an option for us as our parents wanted us programmed for "safety" of the government-corporate superstructure. Like computer code, it was MBA,MASTERS,JD,PHD,MD=RICHES; ELSE=FAILURE. Unfortunately, those pesky laws of capitalist economics will reveal it to be almost the opposite, to the detriment of pretty much everyone.

    When I was 22-23, I actually presented my parents with two business ideas, both of which I still think would work. They scoffed at both and told me to get an MBA or JD. I needed about 100k in start-up capital for either and banks and private financiers have no interest in "ideas." They'd rather have - you guessed it - MBAs up the ass, decades of experience that no 20-something can have, or wealthy connections. Your BMW driver's business was lucky because it seems like something with very little start-up funding needed. For the rest of us - even the creative ones - it's a tougher sell than landing a BigLaw job.

  30. Not to sound super critical, but the BMW driver might have a lot of problems on the back-end.

    As in:

    Those nasty bed-bugs keep coming back, and I'm going to sue!

    I say that because all I hear about bed bugs is how hard they are to get rid of.

    Unless the BMW driver can protect him interests by getting the customer to sign a disclaimer.

    On the other hand, Maybe I'll look into getting a Beagle today.

    And driving a fancy car cuts both ways. A customer might resent it and want to sue all the more if things go wrong.

    But if the car is shabby, the customer might think the business is not successful and just how good is he really?

    So I would recommend an Oldsmobile, except they don't make them anymore.

  31. This school should be called MRSA school of law. Having this stain on your resume is like a loathsome staff infection resistant to even the strongest antibiotics.

  32. To answer "MetsNY's" question, UDM is located in the northwest part of the city, near the infamous Eight Mile Road. It is closely surrounded by what was once a suburban neighborhood, but is now Section 8 housing ruled by gangs. On the bright side, to cross 8 Mile on foot does give a person a lot of street cred. Even the suburbs near there like Ferndale and Warren are crap.

  33. @5:59AM

    I asked the enterprising BMW driver about his legal exposure to a recurring case of bed bugs. He told me that his work is warranted for 90 days and clients sign a hold harmless waiver.

    This guy gets paid an average of $750 to go to an apartment in NYC with a beagle and then applies a cyrogenic coat on the contaminated surfaces. He told me he gets about 5-10 appts. per week. Assuming he gets only 5 a week, at $750 a pop, this kid is pulling almost $200K gross annually. Meanwhile I hear of lawyers that have to be put through the humiliation of being scolded by clients, judges, adversaries, malpractice carriers, etc. for a $500.00 landlord tenant case. It just sounds to me that the prestige of being a lawyer is overrated. That Esq., at the end of your name won't pay the bills by itself or get you respect among the higher echelons of society. In fact the higher the socio-economic strata, the less respect lawyers get. Do you think Donald Trump respects lawyers? They are just pawns or prawns (take your pick) in his world. In fact, he capitalizes on unemployed lawyers by featuring them on his faded out show The Apprentice.

  34. Addendum to 11:03AM

    Oh, and the kid says the average appt. takes an hour. So under the worse case scenario, the kid is pulling almost $200K gross annually for working 5 hours a week. Compare that to shitlaw attorneys that work 60-70 hours for $40-45K (if you are lucky) a year.

    IMO, this kid has outsmarted the current generation of lawyers out there, even the ones at HLS.

  35. 11:07 brings some great insight into the futility of this shit-ass profession. (He brought out the fucking hammer too.) It really is a third tier professoin. Larry Ellison. Donald Trump. Warren Buffet. Carlos Slim. These guys have ZERO respect for lawyers. To them, lawyers are shit. They are paper pushers. They are not much better than a secretary or accountant. They are little pawns. Good night now.

  36. I agree with alot of what nando and others post on here but you losers are taking it a bit too far when you start saying you are envious of some moron who made money killing bed bugs with a beagle while you work in doc review for 75% less.

    At some point, we lawyers need to stand up for our profession. Yes there are tons of stories about peoples lives ruined by debt going to law school, but for every bed bug success, there are many lawyers from lower tier law schools who make good money after awhile, and if you think people hate lawyers, thats laughable. Men want to be lawyers and women want to fuck lawyers. I know this personally from almost 20 yrs in the profession. Getting women as a lawyer is as easy as getting girls in high school when you played QB. Men hate you because they are jealous without knowing how well you are doing. Yeah the successful business guy looks down at you, but people like Trump look down at everybody.

    Take the bed bug guy. Lets assume he is the exception to all the high school educated idiots who unless they start a business will spend their lives working for near minimum wage or in some labor sponsored or life threatening position. Even the ones that try to become bed bug man fail miserably because they lack sense. It might be cool to be some entreprenuer when you are 20-25 and can spend all your money on a flash car, but most of them end up broke and uneducated at 40.

    Most law graduates do much better over time. The fact that a school like DM can fill each seat every year tells you something. Yes people need to do research before going, but its a better risk then thinking you are the next high school drop out with an idea that makes big money barely working. Its like that work from home bullshit.

    Being a lawyer can suck and its hard as hell, but for every gomer that makes it as a bed bug master, there are a lot more lawyers who live very comfortably over their life time and even more high school graduates that waste away doing blue collar work that ruins you physically in your 40s-50s if not earlier.

    People must be very careful when it comes to getting loans to go to crappy schools etc, but dont compare the shit law most of us practice to be less then the bed bug story because one guy can buy a 5 series BMW. If he was that successful, hed have a 7 series.

  37. @11:03

    But I seem to remember hearing that it takes a few follow-up visits to get rid of them all, and that in attached housing it is hopeless. They get behind the walls,like roaches, into whatever apartment they please.

    But roaches don't suck your blood.

    And in terms of the building itself, Bed bugs hide behind light switches and outlets and electric boxes etc. and the Beagles sniff them out.

    But suppose the exterminator gets all done, and someone's child wakes up within 90 says, with bedbug bites all over the body, and blood on the sheets, and is totally freaked and truamatized? And ends up seeing a child psychiatrist or psychologist?

    Waivers help, but we all know that in many cases, the very act of bringing a lawsuit, in spite of a signed waiver, is a guaranteed settlement or payout.

    I'm sure the wiz kid you speak of has to carry Liabilitly Insurance. A lot of Contractors in NY are insured by Co called Utica first.

    A deep pocket.

    If I paid $750 for an hours work, I'd feel pretty ripped off if a bedbug bit my child.

    It is a brand new industry, in other words, and the regs will catch up pretty quick.

    Now the Porn Industry is another story.

    I say that because I know someone who has become a millionaire in the Sex business.

    Provided it is all legal of course.

    But it is still a rough and distasteful business, but not nearly as rough or heavy handed or distasteful as the Law Schools, the ABA, and Sallie Mae are.

    The People in Porn might break your balls.
    But the Law Schools will break your Heart. (and soul)

    And the people in Porn are honest about what and who they are. Unlike the people in Law (not all of them of course) that run around calling themselves things like:

    Honorable, Distinguished, Esteemed etc.

  38. @1:28PM

    Thanks for the laugh. Are you sure you are not a law school dean or professor? The only shysters using that "a law degree is a long-term investment that will pay many dividends over time" are legal "educators" and administrators. You say the bed bug kid may wind up broke without an education by 40. I doubt it. That is probably why he doesn't drive a 7 series, because he is smart and doesn't buy into excess like most attorneys who want to buy condos and luxury cars as first year associates. Assuming this kid flatlines at 40, he would have achieved more than most lawyers and law grads by the time they are 40. Meaning, this kid is living life, going on vacations, driving nice cars, living in nice homes and getting laid. He is living a stress free life without debt. Meanwhile the "QB" lawyer gets fat, loses his hair and suffers from erectile dysfunction by the time he has made it at 40. Try balancing a budget (car payment, student loan payment and viagra re-fills at 40 you moron). And go shill somewhere else. Your tired arguments are not valid and most people know it.

  39. Part I:

    I worked for a couple of Painting Contractors in some magnificant, beautiful and stunning homes on Long Island's East End.

    Mansions. All with the newness and freshness, and promise and hope that money can buy.

    Prime properties. The stuff dreams are made of. Oceanfront, or Bay waterfront, with boat or yacht slips--as well as waterview.

    So beautiful it would leave one speechless to behold. (At least that was how I felt on many occassions.)

    And, by the way, I can completely understand how a beautiful woman--desired by many men-- would sincerely fall fast in love with a Man if he were to own such a property, and if he were to to show her all of the beautiful and wonderful things that life has to offer, and that only money can buy.
    After all, she has to look out for her interests too.

  40. Prt II:

    As Oscar Wilde said--Beauty is it's own aristocracy and genius, or something like that.

    But back to what I was saying--some of these homes were a mere 7000 square feet. And some occcupied 18,000 Sq ft. or more.

    It was rumored that some of the larger homes belonged to people in organized crime. Who knows?

    But, if I can impress at least this much on the reader: with few exceptions, only working people such as Contractors and their employees, or Real estate people, ever see the insides of these homes.

    And it would stagger the minds of most people if they knew what is inside, and to see how some relatively few people actually live.

    But I often had nagging thoughts and questions that would pop into my mind.

    I wondered why an owner of such a home would have no problem with an ex-convict covered head-to-toe in prison gang tattoos, and with a braided ponytail reaching to his lower back...

    why such a homeowner as I say would have no problem with such an ex-convict walking through and working in their bedrooms,and bathrooms, and the rest of the house.

    .....while an honest person with a College degree and a credit score that was poor, could not land a job in one of such a homeowner's corporations? Even a simple mailroom job?

    But such quetions were philosophical in nature, and maybe crazy things that I would create in my workaday mind while inhaling too much paint and dust, I guess.

    And I would crazily conclude as well--- Therein lies Hypocrisy somewhere. On a personal homeowner level, or on a Societal level.

    That home could well have been the home of Donald Trump, and I am sure that everything I have described above is the well exposed Achilles Heel of Trump and so many like himself.

    Are all his Ducks in a row? But that is all I will say on the topic or real estate and the Labor Laws in the US.

    As I have been driving at, a typical Mansion jobsite on the East End of Long Island has many undocumented representatives from many nations.

    Polish people from Poland. Irish People from Ireland.

    Latino workers from many countries: Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico.

    South Americans--Chile, Peru, and so many other countries.

    I have met Lithuanians that could sing the old Soviet National Anthem, because they heard it every day when growing up in Lithuania:

    They said they hated it, and were glad to be in the US.

    Also Pakistani People from Pakistan. Also Turkish People from Turkey, and Turkish people from Germany with heavy German accents.

    On lunch break, while talking, a few people would proudly pull a glittery quasi "citizenship card" out of their wallets. And talk proudly about their children mostly. All born in the US.

    But welcome to the Hamptons! This is something they won't tell you about in the Dan's papers.

    But JD painterguy is nearing the end of his life, and has nothing left to lose, so felt he would share it.

    Also, I never understood why I never met too many African Americans. A few. But not too many in the building trades out in the Hamptons.

    Never any Asians.

    And only a handful of 2nd or 3rd generation Americans such as myself.

    And after dark, one had to be careful when throwing out garbage in the construction dumpster. Raccons and Rats that can get aggressive.

  41. Last Part 3:

    The worst thing about working on a Mansion Job-site is having to use the porta-san, or porta-potty plastic toilets. The were pumped out on a weekly basis, but oftentimes that was not often enough.

    I cannot tell you how miserable it is to have to take a crap and sit in a porta-potty that is overflowed in the sub freezing middle of winter, and read all the Nazi shit on the walls.

    To have that disgusting blue water splashed all over your underwear and white pants.

    Last year. I picked up the worst deep rash on my entire ass from a plastic outhouse. It itched like hell, and I really suffered in silence. Ready to jump out of my skin for a few days.

    It took a month to go finally away. I was just glad that it did. I honestly thought I had Shingles at the time. I was terrified that the Shingles would destroy my kidneys or a major organ, as I have heard that Shingles can do.

    I have no Health Insurance, and was too embarrassed to go to a Dr. with a double whammy: 1. No Health Insurance. and 2. Let me show you my ass.

    PS. Pick another career.

    Don't go to Law School.

    You might not just fall a little. You might fall all the way to the bottom, like I did.

    That is because your wings will surely melt as you fly too close to the sun. And broken wings don't work at all---even part of the way down.

    But a loser like me is in no position to give out advice anyway.

  42. I am a recent graduate from a Tier 1 law school and every time I read your blog and other anti law school blogs my eyes swell up with tears. I can't stop crying.

    I was unemployed and forced to move back home with my parents and they said what a loser I was for not making it on my own.

    I actually smashed my law school diploma with a stapler the other day. All the glass shattered in the frame.

    My mother went psycho yelling at me because she thought I had lost my mind.

    I really regret going to law school. I should have done something in health care or business instead. My parents keep putting me down because I can't find a job, but they don't know how hard I've been trying.

    Sometimes I get so sad and I feel like killing myself. I don't know what to do.

  43. @ 4:20 pm - you are not alone. many of us have the same thoughts. this shit really really sucks, but it's not worth your life. thank your parents for their all-knowing advice and tell them to suck a fart out of your ass.

  44. I think the story about the kid with the bedbug business may be legit, but I agree he'll wind up broke at 40. Those guys spend entire fortunes out their ass. Still, he'll be free and clear. He could conceivably even get rich again.

    Contrast with the 40-year old grad from sewer law. Maybe, if he's lucky, his income will have risen from 35K to 60K. But so what? He will still owe 6 figures from his loans, high five at the very least. He'll have married by now, and will have a family to support. Get the picture? The only thing that will erase his debt in his lifetime is the END of his life.

    I'd prefer the bedbug king route all things considered...


  45. To 4:20 PM


  46. To 4:20,

    Look at the following article from Richard Vedder, an economics “professor” at “The” Ohio State University:

    “Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skills levels associated with a bachelor’s degree.”

    Go down to the chart following this info. You can clearly see that 21.62% of all customer service representatives have at least a Bachelor’s. Regarding telemarketers, 15.85 percent of these guys have a four year college degree. Furthermore, 16.14% of all hotel, motel and resort desk clerks have this credential. Lastly, 29.8 PERCENT of all flight attendants in this country are armed with a four year degree. Have your parents take a look at this chart.

    This is one of the most fundamental differences between our generation, and that of our parents. Over the summer, while camping in Mesa Verde National Park, my wife’s father was telling us that we should all be so proud of our education. He graduated from Kansas State University in the 1970s. He is now a bank president in a small community; he has been a bank executive for many years. By his account, tuition at KSU was something around $300 a semester, at the time. He was able to work odd jobs so that he could avoid student debt. For all intents and purposes, nobody has this option today - short of an investment banker who feels the need for another academic credential.

    All three of his daughters have Master’s degrees - although one is from some online piece of trash. Tellingly, that sister makes very nice income as a collector - and has for some time. She simply decided to get an “advanced degree” so that she could make a little more money. She makes more than her other two sisters combined - and then some.

    Of their husbands, one has a law degree from Third Tier Drake and another is in his final year of dental school (with no job lined up yet.) The collector is married to a guy who makes about $25K and has been working on his Bachelor’s for the past ten years. (He likes to take 1-2 classes a semester.)

    We were getting ready to go on a hike. At that point, I looked right at my wife’s father and said:

    “You believe in higher education, because back in your day, it was an investment that typically paid off. School was affordable, and one could start his career off with little to no student loan debt. There were plenty of decent paying jobs available to college graduates back then. That is NOT the case today!”

  47. “You have one son-in-law who will graduate from dental school with over $250K in non-dischargeable debt. He does not have a position lined up. His wife teaches a couple of courses a semester at the worthless University of Phoenix. She makes peanuts, and they make it because they are on welfare and Food Stamps. Combined, [my wife] and I have $100K in student debt. I make under $40K, and did not need a damn law degree for this job. She has been unemployed since we moved back.

    Out of these three couples, the one where someone has sales skills is doing the best financially. Her undergrad was in Philosophy and she has an online MBA. She makes money not due to her “education,” but because she can collect! So don‘t tell me that “higher education” has paid off for this family. It has paid off for the student lender pigs, the administrators and “professors.”

    He then conceded that I was right. This was then followed by nasty glares from everyone and about ten minutes of silence. (It is funny how people hate the messenger, isn‘t it?)

    Going back to Vedder’s info and the chart from Bureau of Labor Statistics, does anyone NEED a college degree to sell you something over the phone? Is a Bachelor’s degree necessary for handing out packets of peanuts and pouring cups of 7-Up on a flight?

    I have personally known DOZENS of MBAs, JDs, and college graduates who ended up working the phones, selling furniture, working in factories, selling women’s shoes, pumping gas, waiting tables, tending bar, serving lattes, working at amusement parks, etc.

    What does that say about this country?!?!

    Make sure you also show your family this chart from NALP.

    The JD Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates - competing for 28,901 jobs requiring a law degree. If you look at the chart further, you will discover that NALP and the law school cartel needed to perform logical gymnastics to reach the 88.3% job placement figure. Look at the number of temporary and part-time jobs. See how many desperate souls decided to hang out their own shingle. Look at how many took work as paralegals. Many also ended up working as “research assistants” for their diploma mill - all for the sake of improving the placement rate. MANY, 2,198 to be exact, returned to their prior jobs. How can the law schools take credit for such “placement”?!?!

    In the end, you cannot let this define you. Start your own scam-blog, inform others about this scam, and help us beat the snot out of this industry. Do not let your family brow-beat you. Do not let the law school pigs claim another victim. Do not suffer in silence. Go out there and rip into these diploma mills. You can use that shattered glass as a powerful image on your blog.

  48. Gawd that image is foul and disgusting. It is almost as foul and disgusting as this piece of shit law school.

  49. I had to go blue collar in order to survive.

    Went to what is now a TTT, bottom of the class, three times to pass the bar. No prospects. But at that time, I was able to escape into the skilled trades, where I remain today. I didn't give a damn about "status". I have friends soloing in law who are nearly broke.

    FIRST THING TO GET OVER: The necessity of being "white collar." Dismiss all of what, especially, your family thinks. They have no idea except for the b.s. they see on tv. Forget any concept of "status", that is the big problem I am seeing with kids who are getting incredulous looks and comments from those they know who find it unbelievable that they can't break into law. Law schools, despite what civilians (i.e., non-lawyers) think, prepare students WOEFULLY for practice. That is not your fault, but that of the thugs running the toilet-bowl law schools.

    Refocus on what it will take to make a living only. Dismiss all of what others may think or say. That is the only way.

    Otherwise, I see people getting psychologically damaged by law school, in that their experience differs so dramatically from what others think they should be experiencing. Cognitive dissonance. That is the root of much of this problem--the myths that for some reason still surround this very sick "profession".

  50. @ 11:18

    Beautifully put.

    There have been some decades where the people in Law did better than the people in the skilled trades.

    But now it seems that the tables have turned, and the people in the Skilled Trades do better than the people in Law.

    It all boils down to looking at reality for what it is, and from the reality of the streets-- which have never fooled anyone with common sense yet, as far as I know.

    Sometimes the most obvious things are the hardest to see.

    Such obvious things being: who are the Homeowners now, and who is buying the best homes? Maybe the Exterminator guy? Maybe not?

    Who wears the best clothes?

    Who is driving the more expensive cars?
    Eating in the Restaurants?
    Showing up at popular Vacation Resorts?

    It is like a month or two ago in the evening, I was driving around with my father, and we passed a Parking Lot of a fairly upscale Restaurant with Valet Parking and packed full of cars. And some of the cars were pretty nice.

    He asked: "What are all of these people doing out tonight if there is a recession going on?"

    So where is the recession at least for some people?

    PS--I am on a new tack with my blog. So check out my recent post.

    To borrow a phrase: Education has to matter, I hope.

  51. @ 4:20

    What the Hell! I'm 45 and had to move back with my parents after my divorce. Completely in the red with Student Loans.

    But there is humor in everything, and sometimes you have to just laugh at yourself.

    As Eric Estrada said on an episode of "The surreal Life" : If you can laugh at yourself, you can beat life.

    At times I feel like George Costanza. Especially when my parents tear into me about what a Loser I am, and when they start arguing with each other.

    But after that I go out and pick up a six of Budweiser 16 oz. tall-boys. Walk the dog, and go to sleep with a little hope for the new day.

    Last night I took my puppy out at 3 AM. The stars were unusually bright, and I could see Orion's belt and sword so clearly. The big dipper. The Plieades (spelling) and all sorts of brighter and more yellowish stars that I thought must be planets. Venus , Mars.

    And then I sudenly realized how trivial and foolish all of the problems of we short-lived
    humans are in a lot of ways.

    Many thousands of years from now, someone else will look up at the same stars, and the stars will not have moved all that much.

    Will anyone on Earth even remember that a civilization even existed during a date known as 2010 in the Roman Calendar?

    To conclude, Human History has been full of cruelties. And, in the Grand scheme of things, Student Debt is just one of many major and minor cruelties inflicted by a Government upon the goverened. Par for the course I guess.

    But certainly not worth killing oneself over.

    The Stars at night, and sunshine on one's face in the morning are enough proof of that.

    1. Dude, you're awesome. Thanks for this.

  52. Is there no better way to compare the current Law School situation, than to analogize it with the Ballet of the Red Shoes?

    The evil shoemaker guy at 1:33 represents the law Schools, and the tempter, and the devil himself. Tempting a young, and strong and graceful youth towards his or her doom.

    Once caught in the trap, the youth will have no choice but to dance to the very death death in those red shoes.

    Unable to shake off the debt, nor take the red shoes off, no matter how much the young person begs the Congress or the Legal system, symbolized by this guy in the link below at 4:50.

    It is too late for you.

    And at 6:35, the Evil Law schools will once again, put the red shoes back up for sale for the next sucker, and.....

    With Glee.

  53. Nando:

    Did you happen to take a look at the faculty bio of the law professor whose blog you quote? Before joining the esteemed faculty at this renowned institution, he "represented victims of lending scams and assisted in drafting legislation to stop abusive lending practices."

    Pot, meet kettle. Where exactly along the way did this fucker lose his soul?


  54. Kinda like what they sometimes do in law enforcement circles--wherein they have experienced car thieves show the cops the tricks of the trade--'cept in reverse.

  55. This is Mike/John:

    I admire and respect the exterminator with the BMW. Using ambition, drive and a positive attitude, the exterminor has become succesful. If the exterminator was armed with a law degree, can you imagine how much further he would've gone?

    As for most new law grads, if they had never gone to law school and went into the extermination business instead; this is what would've happenned: They would complain that they went to TTTT trade school and can never get into good extermination firms like Orkin or Terminix. It's also impossible to start their own extermination companies. Maybe after a few years, they'd get a salaried exterminator job somewhere but this job would never have the "prestige" or Orkin or Terminix.

  56. Oh No you don't!

    You sound so young and inexperienced.

    I heard stories on the Radio about how these bedbug trianed Beagle dogs end up smelling out spiders instead of the filthy bedbugs. And the bedbugs kept coming back, soon after the dogs and the exterminator left.

    Yet you hang your hat on a brand new industry such as bedbug extermination, to compare with your support of the oldest profession in the USA, if not he World: LAW.

    Believe me, no Company in the exterminating business, in this day and age, has any clue as to how to deal with bedbugs.

    It may be many years before they do so, and yet you tout and proclaim the front end of the newly created bedbug exterminating business, as being far superior to the back end of the decades long corrupt and soul-destroying Law business in the USA.

    Well, I guess it is fitting in some degrading ways, insofar as the Law is nothing more than an exterminating business, hoping to wipe out the evil that is inherent in the Human soul.

    But still, your analogy doesn't speak well for your ability to draw accurate conclusions, and for your feeble abilities to compare.

    But thanks for helping the cause of the scambloggers. Mike and John exist now as pure fiction.

    To paraphrase, as the "Pure products of America that have gone Crazy."

    William Carlos Williams

  57. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  58. To the piece of garbage above,

    You have PROVEN yourself beyond all doubt to have no integrity, no balls, and no argument. Hence, your retarded posts will continue to be deleted. Your boyfriend shot his wad in your eye socket, bitch?! Then take it up with him.

  59. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  60. Time to do an update on UD Mercy School of Law. They put some lipstick on the pig this past summer (2011), spending millions so that it actually looks like a real law school. On that level, it's quite impressive.

    Don't. Tuition now exceeds $38K per year: they have precious little endowment money, and borrowed heavily for the renovation. They have to pay for that somehow.

    You have no realistic hope of recouping the "investment" in yourself. Even if they offer you a free ride, think twice about accepting it. It's still 3 really hard years of your life that you won't get back, for a credential that won't do you much good.


    1. Only 65% of UDM students passed the Michigan bar exam in July 2011, by far the worst percentage of passers for any law school that had graduates taking the Michigan bar. Even Cooley grads did better.

    2. Outside of Michigan, UDM's name means nothing. Even here, there are plenty of Wayne State, Mich. State, and Michigan grads to fill the few high quality jobs available.

    3. To keep its enrollment numbers at a sufficient level to pay salaries and service the debt they incurred for the renovation, UDM has lowered its admissions standards drastically. More than half their incoming class was below the 50th percentile on the LSAT. Most people below the 50th percentile on the LSAT take that mark (correctly) as an indication that law is probably not the right career for them. Nationwide, 75% of all entering law students come from the top 50% of LSAT takers.

    Even if your own LSAT/GPA profile is better than that, you will be tarnished with the bottom feeding reputation of the school as a whole.

    4. The faculty are of two classes: (A) tenured hacks, most of whom don't publish anything anymore, and whose few published works from their pre-tenure days haven't been read or cited, if ever, in a very long time (except perhaps in a string cite). Some of the profs in this group still care about students, but many are almost openly contemptuous of the students. Not one member of this class of profs has anything like a national reputation in their field. (B) Untenured faculty hoping to make tenure, who therefore are not at all concerned with students, but instead with publishing articles so they can join the tenure gravy train. Some of this class have real potential to develop national reputations. They will be gone soon, accepting lateral offers to better schools that will pay them more and enhance their reputations. There are perhaps a half dozen of these profs. Over the last 7 years, the school has also lost at least a half dozen young stars in just this way.

    There are a few genuinely good teachers, who care about, devote time to, and forge real connections with their students. Not worth all the negatives for a few courses with these diamonds in the rough.

    I could go on, but if you haven't gotten the picture by now, maybe you belong at UDM Law.

  61. UDM law will give you a solid legal education. Like any 4th tier, the school's rank will not help you. Most students who attend udm and other 4th tiers do not desire to work in biglaw, they want to work in a small firm 1-10 lawyers with which they have connections with. They will learn how to run and operate a small law firm and will go off on their own in the future. If you have connections with a small law firm, 4th tiers are a wonderful option since many offer decent scholarships. After learning how to run a firm and you build a solid client base, and you hang your own shingle, (considering you are a good lawyer with many clients) your salary will most likely be higher than many students who attended top law schools. Furthermore, your lifestyle will be much better. You do not have to work as much, you build a much closer relationship to your clients, and you actually feel like you are a lawyer vs a factory worker. And YES Fernando I visit this website frequently so you don't have to write a post telling everyone how much of a low life I am by displaying the exact times I've been on here.. Save yourself the trouble. 4th tiers are not shitholes. Just know before you go. If you find a job it'll pay 40-50 thousand dollars per year, BUT if you are an entrepreneurial individual you can build a solid client base and go off on your own and you will make 6 figures IN TIME and you will enjoy you job.

  62. To the cretin above:

    On August 5, 2011, Mike Riggs wrote a piece on, employing the headline "Moody’s Sounds the Alarm on Student Borrowing." For your benefit, here is an excerpt:

    "A growing chorus of economists and educators think that the higher education industry will be America's next bubble. Easy credit, high tuition, and poor job prospects have resulted in growing delinquency and default rates on nearly $1 trillion worth of private and federally subsidized loans. Now the ratings agency Moody's has weighed in with a chilling diagnosis: "Unless students limit their debt burdens, choose fields of study that are in demand, and successfully complete their degrees on time, they will find themselves in worse financial positions and unable to earn the projected income that justified taking out their loans in the first place."

    In August 2010 financial aid guru Mark Kantrowitz announced that student loan debt had, for the first time, surpassed credit card debt. A month later, the Department of Education announced that default rates for student loans had jumped from 4.6 percent in 2005 to 7 percent in 2008, the most recent year for which data is available. While the two announcements went largely unnoticed, some took the data points as evidence that America's next big bubble—higher education—was becoming dangerously inflated."

    Try to digest this data. If you need to read it several times in order to absorb the message, then go ahead.

    In the final analysis, is it worth incurring an additional $110K-$150K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE student debt for *a chance* to make $40K-$50K per year?!?! If you believe that this is still a wise investment, then you are economically illiterate.

    Take a look at the latest average law student indebtedness rankings, published by US “News” & World Report, bitch. For the UDM Law class of 2011, this figure stood at $124,405. Last year, this amount reached $107,139. Do the math, child: that is an increase of $17,266 – IN THE SPAN OF TWO YEARS! (You may need to break out a calculator, in order to confirm that sum.)

    I entered $124,405 in student debt at 6.8 percent interest. I was actually too kind to this dung pit. Furthermore, that amount does not include debt from undergrad. Additionally, I used the current federal government loan rate of 6.8%. Let's be real, UDM shill: at that amount of debt, MUCH of the loans will originate from private lenders. At any rate, cockroach, here is the generated response:

    “Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 359 payments of $811.03 plus a final payment of $808.13.

    It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $97,323.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.3. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $64,882.40, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.9.”

  63. Good luck repaying such an amount on your $40K-$50K job, moron. Based on the same figures entered above, look at the generated text:

    "Loan Calculator

    Loan Balance: $124,405.00
    Adjusted Loan Balance: $124,405.00
    Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
    Loan Fees: 0.00%
    Loan Term: 30 years
    Minimum Payment: $0.00
    Enrollment Status: In Repayment
    Degree Program: Lawyer (LLB or JD)

    Monthly Loan Payment: $811.03
    Number of Payments: 360

    Cumulative Payments: $291,967.90
    Total Interest Paid: $167,562.90"

    I then entered a total debt figure of $160,000 at 8.25% interest. (This figure better represents reality, as private lenders can charge 10 or 11 percent in interest - and most students accumulate debt from undergrad.) Here is the generated text:

    "Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 359 payments of $1,202.03 plus a final payment of $1,196.65.

    It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $144,243.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $96,162.40, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.7."

    Now, YOU need to explain how in the hell a graduate making $40K-$50K - if he is lucky enough to even land such a position - is supposed to repay that amount, cockroach. Unless you can make a cogent argument, then you need to keep your face shut on this topic, Bitch.

    Keep in mind that if a student debtor defaults on his loans, he will face a mountain of fees, penalties and assessments. Furthermore, if you place your loans in deferment, then you will watch helplessly as interest accrues on your outstanding balance, i.e. you will end up owing more when you resume making payments on your loans.

  64. what makes it even worse is.....all the top students after first year at UDM transfer out. So all their "top" students aren't really "top" students.

  65. If you choose to spend your life sniffing around tables for those crumbs that fall off, or are dusted your way and merely resign yourself to finding a "job," then the law biz holds little promise, even for those who will start in the 6-figures and burn out making someone else rich.

    If, however, you have real drive and, instead of complaining, look for a way to leverage your ticket, you can do pretty well. It doesn't happen overnight, but opportunities are what you make of them. Run of the mill, hunched over tired lawyers taking court appointments and anything else they can get will always do just that; go-getters move up. Last week was a "bad" week for me, and I banked over $8000. You need to find a competitive advantage and leverage it. Having a job will never bring that advantage. What's the difference between owning a diner or a high-end restaurant? The diner owner decides to make enough to get by slaving away in his or her diner. The high-end restauranteur decides that he or she wants to cater to those willing to spend serious money, then makes it happen.

    About 1 or 2 other people from my law school class went on to make a lot of money. A few settled to become Judges, most burned out, but those with a desire to rise to the top did so. Cream rises, and people, whatever their various educations, generally wind up at the level they belong.

    1. Congratulations on sucking dicks and making $8,000 last week on a bad week, you lying sack of shit.

    2. Whatever the case may be, he certainly knows nothing about the "high end" restaurant business! Very few survive the first coupla years, let alone the first six months.

      Think I'll restrain myself from relying upon 1:22's ability to analogize meaningfully, let alone give law practice tips!

  66. Earlier, some piece of trash tried to post on this entry. He claimed that the University of Detroit Mercy Sewer of Law was now in the third tier of U.S. law schools. As if that was some great accomplishment.

    Anyway, I just wanted the cockroach to realize that US "News" & World Report still lists the Univer$iTTTTy of DeTTTTroiTTTT Mercy $chool of Law as a FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT! Since this group is listed alphabetically, this toilet is placed after Touro and before University of Puerto Rico.

    If you are going to try and attack this solid as hell blog, then make sure you have your facts straight, Bitch. Get a life, mental midget.


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