Thursday, December 2, 2010

Pass the Toilet Paper: Fourth Tier Toilet Thomas Goode Jones School of Law at Faulkner University



Tuition: A full-time student attending this law school, for the 2010-2011 school year, will be charged $31,000. Yes, that is the Christian thing to do, isn’t it?! So much for integrity and ethical conduct, huh?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+7

Ranking: So what if nobody outside of Montgomery, AL has heard of this sewer of law? Surely, the educational experience and “intellectual stimulation” will be worth every penny (of borrowed money), right?!?! For some reason, US News & World Report has this school listed in the fantastic fourth tier of American law schools. This couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the fact that this school sucks ass, could it?!?!

http://www.faulkner.edu/jsl/careers.asp

Career Prospects: “The CSO staff does not guarantee jobs or provide placement services but works to empower students and alumni with the skills necessary to conduct an effective job search at any stage of a career.”

Why doesn’t the commode simply flush this entire department, and print off some handouts to aid students interested in finding a job?

http://www.faulkner.edu/jsl/barpassagerates.asp

At least, these cretins are able to publish their graduates’ bar passage rates. Apparently, 91.7 percent of 2010 Faulkner Law grads passed the bar exam, on the first try. I am sure they will be pleased with their accomplishment when they are bagging groceries at Publix Super Market. Perhaps these graduates will be proud of their law license when they are serving cocktails and steak fries at Moody’s Sports Bar.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average student indebtedness for Faulker’s JD Class of 2009 as $74,674. Furthermore, this chart shows that 86% of this unfortunate graduating class took on additional debt for law school.

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/630/329/2009-630329409-05629a25-9.pdf

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Head over to page 28 of this university’s 2009 Form 990. There, you will see that Charles I. Nelson made $198,387 in TOTAL COMPENSATION for 2008. Yes, this “educator” made $178,701 in base compensation; $10,449 in deferred compensation; and $9,237 in non-taxable benefits. In fact, Chuck Nelson made more than the university president, Billy Hilyer – who only made $195,920 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the same tax year.

Potential Upside:

http://www.faulkner.edu/admissions/jsl/pressrelease1.asp

Ooh. The law school was named as one of the 172 best, most exhilarating and amazing law schools in the U.S., by TTThe PrinceTTTon Review. Congratulations! Then again, Florida InTTTTernaTTTTional UniversiTTTTy also made the cut.

http://www.picpaste.com/lawschool-jtJATd71.jpg

I’m surprised “Joey’s Deli, Gas & Law School” didn’t make the list. Maybe they didn’t have a fax machine or enough paper towels in the men’s restroom.

http://www.faulkner.edu/admissions/jonesLaw.asp

Towards the bottom of the page, you can see that NaTTTional Juri$TTT industry shill magazine has named Jones School of Law as one of its Best Value law schools. Truly impressive, isn’t it?!

Conclusion: This is an over-priced, purportedly Christian commode. Would Jesus charge $31K a year to those who have about the same chance of practicing law as a housecat? Make sure to keep your little Thomas Goode Jones law degree handy; you may need it to wipe your ass – especially when you are applying for jobs at temp hag agencies.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2245247527

Speaking of highly-educated housecats, check out this page. This cat’s owner only had to pay $399 for the pet to receive a BA and an MBA from Trinity Southern University. Colby Nolan even received a transcript showing that he had “earned” a 3.5 GPA. I guess he was able to use his diploma to line his litter box. The point is that TTTThoma$ Goode Jone$ $chool of Law at Faulkner Univer$iTTTTy is not much better than this diploma mill. In fact, Faulkner is a bigger piece of waste. The cat did not need to piss away three years of his life – or re-pay six figures in student loans. Taking out $100K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE student loans for a realistic chance to make $33K upon graduation is a stupid financial decision.

91 comments:

  1. Good god, I thought I had seen some obscure law schools before. My favorite is the Career Services Cop-Out

    "Does not guarantee jobs or provide placement services but works to empower students and alumni."

    Why don't you just hand out the kids a self-help book and be done with it?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Tom Jones Law School?

    Meh. I'd rather go to Englebert Humperdinck School of Law.

    ReplyDelete
  3. ♪It’s not unusual to be chronically unemployed,
    It’s not unusual to be broke and underemployed,
    But when I see you hanging out your own shingle, for your shitlaw firm
    It’s not unusual to see me squirm.

    It’s not unusual to see Faulkner grads on the unemployment line,
    To see them representing broke bastards charged with petty crimes,
    If you should ever want to be respectable,
    You should have gone to a better school,
    No matter what you say,
    Life for TTT and TTTT grads can be so cruel.♫

    Success will not happen, no matter how bad you want it to
    Why can’t respect be mine?

    It’s not unusual to be crushed by student debt,
    It’s not unusual to be completely despondent,
    Not when you graduate from this third tier shithole
    It’s not unusual to find a Faulkner JD standing in a bread line.
    No no no no
    Yeah yeah yeah yeah

    ♪♫

    ReplyDelete
  4. Roxy and Mini, my two cats, are horribly offended by this posting. They demand that you change the reference to house cats having equal chance to practice law as a graduate of Faulkner Law. You will be hearing from their, ahem, cattorney.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Tom Jones for the win!

    "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Timothy 6:10

    Unless you are a "Christian Law School", in which case the love of money means a lot of fat bank for the administration at the expense of destitute students.

    ReplyDelete
  6. What is wrong with you guys? Why all the negativeity? I believe in the mission of this school. I also believe that this school provides students without the best lsat scores and gpas access to a legal education. Yes, it is a Christian school. You got a problem with that? Should we shut out people that didn't score 170 on their exam? What is so wrong with that? I am in my second year here, and I am grateful for the chance the school gave me. Yes, the debt can be dauting and I have seen some anxiety from 3Ls. I still wouldn';t change a thing. I made the right choice. So go run into a house fire. Oh, and Tom Jones the singer is not affiliated with this school. You talk about sophmoric comments, man.

    ReplyDelete
  7. [Undoes top 4 buttons on shirt, runs pick thru Afro and tosses coat and tie over his shoulder]

    "She's a lady.
    Whoa whoa whoa whoa.
    She's a lady.
    I'm talkin' bout that little lady.
    And the lady is mine.
    Yeah yeah yeah yeah
    She's a lady.
    She's a lady.
    Whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo.
    Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

    Now open up your fucking wallet and gave me $31,000 for the school year. And that money is mine. Whoa whoa whoa whoa, Yeah! And that money is mine. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. I'm counting that shit right now. Whoa whoa whoa whoa."

    ReplyDelete
  8. @10:28 LOL.

    @10:19 - Look, I went to a "Christian Law School", also, and frankly what was different about the place as opposed to the "secular" law schools others attended was not abundantly clear. They like to talk about "mission" and "purpose", but I didn't see it in practice vis-a-vis the students, personally, or the so-called community at large.

    However, with that said I do sincerely hope you find a completely different experience and obtain a good result in the end. I just have found the whole experience, Christian or not, to be a loosing proposition - and you don't have to look far to find a cloud of witnesses with a similar opinion. Good luck.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Loosing? Wow. This alone is an indictment of every school you have attended.

      Delete
  9. I have never been affiliated with, nor had any dealings with Thomas Goode Jones Shitter of law. In fact, Tom Jones is my stage name. My actual name is Thomas Woodward. I am not even from America. Please do not associate me with this piece of shit diploma mill. Please, for the love of God. What woman would dare throw her panties at me if she thought I had anything to do with this school? I have brought joy and orgasms to millions of my lady friends. I do not crush students for a living.

    Tom Jones

    ReplyDelete
  10. A very close friend of mine just got into Faulkner. She has no delusions of practicing big law so she doesn’t care at all about “prestige”. She just needs a piece of paper to let her sit for the bar. So far, Faulkner is the only school which has taken her. My friend is interested in three things, which in decreasing importance, are:
    1. An easy school to get into.
    2. Low flunk out rate.
    3. Not very expensive.
    Since you guys are connoisseurs of shitty law schools, maybe you can help us. She is looking for the absolute bottom of the barrel TTTTTTs. I’m sure that she’ll get into Thomas Cooley, but is concerned about Cooley’s flunk out rate. Do you guys know what Faulkner’s flunk out rate is? I’ve heard that Faulkner doesn’t flunk many people out. The only bad thing about Faulkner is that it is expensive. Do you guys know of any schools as easy to get into as Faulkner but which are cheaper?
    If nothing cheaper takes her, she’ll go to Faulkner.

    She plans on hustling solo after she graduates. (She used to be in sales and is a very good salesperson). She just needs a piece of paper saying that she’s a lawyer.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Nando, do you think you could include average GPA's and LSAT scores in your posts? I think part of the problem with the current legal education environment is that ANYONE can get a JD (with tax payer backing!). Showing average LSAT and undergrad gpa would help illustrate this point.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Why didn't Colby Nolan the cat go for a dual degree, JD/MBA? Should've only required another Ben Franklin, I suppose.

    ReplyDelete
  13. It is a recurring theme with these schools: high bar passage but poor employment prospects. People see the high bar passage rates and think at least their program is good. But this is misleading! Why? You are not a Lawyer until you pass the Bar; we all know this.

    My premise is every Law student hits BARBRI, PMBR,Piper, Micromash, and Kaplan etc... to study his ass off to pass the Bar Exam. It is in his interest to learn or relearn everything for the bar. We all had to learn things for the Bar we were not taught in law school. In point, if he didn't learn Third party contracts three years ago in K Law, then he will learn it by the last week in July. In conclusion, we may be giving credit to law schools for effort individuals and private companies better deserve.

    M
    theyuppieattorney.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
  14. http://www.abanet.org/legaled/approvedlawschools/alpha.html

    You can see that this piece of trash received full ABA accreditation in 2006.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Goode_Jones_School_of_Law

    Yes, that is a great accomplishment – especially considering that this stack of dung has been around since 1928. Pop open the champaign bottles.

    http://jones.lawschoolnumbers.com/

    This page will allow me to answer two requests. I can provide some UGPA/LSAT figures – plus provide attrition rate info to 11:08 am. (Send my condolences to your delusional friend who is applying to TTTTs - with the intent to hang her own shingle.) If you are not praying for this poor soul, you damn well should be.

    We can see that, for the Class of 2009, the 75th percentile undergraduate GPA was 3.35 while the 25th percentile UGPA was 2.7. It is BEYOND PATHETIC that someone can get into an ABA-accredited law school with a UGPA of 2.7!

    For the same class, the 75th percentile LSAT score was 152, whereas the 25 percentile score was 147. This law school is accepting people with LSAT scores of 147!! Shouldn’t that tell the lemmings all they need to know about this place?! Could you imagine AMA-accredited medical schools accepting people with terrible MCAT scores – or applicants who earned a 2.78 GPA, while majoring in Art History?!?!

    Apparently, the Class of 2008 had an attrition rate of 32.3% for the first year. Now, that is impressive!! Also, we can see that 95.9 percent of this commode's Class of 2005 was allegedly employed within nine months of graduation. How many of them were selling insurance or stocking shelves is unknown.

    To evren, I apologize if I offended your cats. I suppose they have a better chance of practicing law than most TTTToma$ Goode Jone$ $chool of Law graduates.

    http://lawofthegump.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_archive.html

    I wonder what happened to this Jones SOL grad.

    From his profile:

    “I just graduated Law school at Jones in Montgomery, AL. Currently I live in West Georgia and am seeking employment while studying for the bar. This blog contains undisputed but rebuttable presumptions of illogical reasoning.”

    With a TGJSOLAFU law degree under his belt, I’m sure the world will become his oyster.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I see a musical element has been added to this hallowed site.

    Well done.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Now I am quite sure, as with Cumberland, there will soon be a deluge of vociferous apologetics with references to some obscure regional jurist from another era who attended said school, and/or some desperate reference to a retired magistrate who embarassingly insists on being called "Honorable."

    ReplyDelete
  17. December 2, 2010 12:33 PM

    Exactly, 12:33. Law school teaches very little except how to be a law student. In my humble opinion, with the flood gates now fully thrown open, and with the ABA certifying any spare garage bay with a fax machine as an accredited law school, folks should be able to sit for the bar without law school if they wish.

    Why not? I mean, as our friend from Tom Jones at 10:19 alluded, we don't want to EXCLUDE anyone, do we?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Wow, I have neither heard of this place, nor have I met anyone who went here (perhaps at McDonald's, but they didn't give me their card). It amazes me that people would willingly fork over money to something called the Tom Jones School of Law.

    ReplyDelete
  19. what's new pussycat?December 2, 2010 at 2:30 PM

    This place is a flaming shithole of epic proportions. Who in their right mind would take out student loans to attend this place? So they can frame their little Thomas Jones law degree and hang that thing from a wall? Gawd!! Who would spend their own money even to get a degree from this dung heap? I wouldn't have sex with someone if I knew they earned a JD from this place.

    ReplyDelete
  20. If Carlton Banks were a kid of the 2010s, he would forget Princeton and head straight for the Tom Jones School of Law:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKSxlJPmz40

    You know it's a bad sign when you apply to a place that is the "[x] school of law at [x] university" and you've heard of neither before. But let's meet our university namesakes, shall we?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Goode_Jones

    Thomas Goode Jones was a decorated officer in the Confederate army, leader of the Alabama militia post-Reconstruction, and governor of Alabama during a horrible economic period. Sounds like the perfect role model for a modern-day law school.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Faulkner

    Faulkner is named after James H. Faulkner, newspaperman and educational financier. Faulkner's claim to fame was bringing Alabama's 2nd junior college to his neck of the woods. Who did they name it after at first? Yup, a secession leader! (William Yancey).

    Basically, unless I'm misreading something, this school is named after a Confederate at a University originally named after a secessionist. At least places like Cardozo are named after reputable judges! How can you be African-American - heck, how can you be Christian - and go to a place named after a Confederate war hero?

    Is there a Calhoun School of Law at Thurmond University in or coming to South Carolina??!?!?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Woo that's a relief I thought they named this dump after William Faulkner. Was feeling kind of sorry for him.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Nando:

    Thanks for bringing the GPA/LSAT data into the mix. By way of comparison, here is NYU:

    LSAT Median: 171
    LSAT 25/75 Percentile: 169-173

    UGPA Median: 3.75
    UGPA 25/75 Percentile: 3.6-3.9

    ReplyDelete
  23. @ 10:19

    "I made the right choice. So go run into a house fire."

    Oh how the Christianity radiates through you. Although I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears, here's some free advice: if u r borrowing money to attend this diploma mill, drop out immediately. You are only halfway through ur second year. You can walk away now with only half the debt. Do not send good money after bad. You are buying broken goods. You have been warned.

    If you choose to forge ahead, may God bless you. However, u will likely wind up as a lifelong debt slave. Remember, this blog tried to HELP u. Do u really think ur fate will be different from the 3Ls? Are you that special? Lol

    ReplyDelete
  24. My Student Loan Debt from my T4 Law School was at around the 200 Thousand dollar mark last year, in the summer of 2009.(Two-hundred thousand)

    It was in default.

    To get it out of default, the collection costs, and fees and penalties etc. were a little over 50 thousand dollars (Fifty Thousand).

    This is not a lie. I have hard documented evidence of this.

    I pray that any young kid in their 20's somehow, through the mercy of God reads this, and becomes a follower of Nando's blog, and all of the other blogs in the upper right hand column of this page.

    Please take these blogs seriously. They are not fucking around.

    They are sending out a very dire and grave warning about Debt-Slavery.

    Take a very hard look at your life, your debt level, and your Law School.

    There are no Bankruptcy protections for this kind of Debt. There is no way out but to die.

    What has happened to the USA? And why does its Legal System sanction and promote this kind of debt? And create an enviornment for the creation of even more debt slaves with every passing year? With no end in sight?

    Does anybody care?

    To anyone contemplating a lower tier Law School, please heed my warning. Please, please, please.......

    ReplyDelete
  25. As a rule of thumb, I toss resumes of candidates that atteneded a religiously themed school into the garbage. If you are gullible enough to buy into the religious mission of the school and pay a premium for it, you are not smart enough to be a good lawyer.

    I won't even address this school other than to say that it is no different than a charlatan speaking from the pulpit and selling false hope to its congregation (i.e., Jesus will provide you with a legal job).

    On a final note, Colby Nolan has a better chance of getting an offer from the firm than a graduate of any school featured on this blog.

    NYC Hiring partner

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You DO realize this is discrimination don't you? I have no affiliation with this school. I am simply stating the absolute obvious.... over 4 years later.

      Delete
    2. Replying to you 1 and a half years later, but - no. It's not obvious that this is discrimination. Mr. Hiring partner didn't say he didn't hire religious people or people who followed a certain faith - he said he doesn't consider applicants who attended religious law schools. Which, to me, seems a perfectly rational decision. Any dumbass who attends Tom Jones School of Law (or Cumberland Law, or any of the other Christ-like southern law schools that are TTTs, or any TTTs at all) can't be trusted as an attorney in my opinion.

      In fact, the only law school I can think of that's really any good, and not a trap school of the GW/Wake Forest/etc. variety, is Georgetown. And Georgetown isn't even that "Catholic", really, as far as Catholic or religious schools go.

      Delete
  26. I have never heard of this crap hole. Outside of someone who is a local yokel from Alabamey who absolutely CANNOT get into a better school and who has money to burn and plans on being a solo practitioner (because that's the only realistic opportunity that will be forthcoming graduting from this dump), only then would I even remotely suggest that you attend this piece of shit. If this is the best you can do, I recommend you retake the LSAT and actually study this time around. Needless to say, this is one of those schools that needs to shut down ... NOW!

    ReplyDelete
  27. JD Painter guy:
    How much are the monthly payments for $200k? What time period is a law school loan amortized over? 10yrs, 20yrs?

    My friend will probably have to take on about $200k for this. It is about the only place she got in.

    This is normally a bad investment, but she meets Nando's criteria: I'm goint to teach her the game when she gets out. A solo who knows the game makes at least $100k or $200k within a few years out.

    ReplyDelete
  28. How many TTT schools have Thomas in their names?

    ReplyDelete
  29. @ 7:09 "A solo who knows the game makes at least $100k or $200k within a few years out."

    This is a pie-in-the-sky estimate in my opinion. Not saying it can't be done, but... obviously depends on location and practice area. I'd say you should be very happy if you break $100K (after expenses) after a "few years" (e.g., 2-3 years) out. Most solos I know are clearing $40-80K after expenses.

    ReplyDelete
  30. NYC hiring partner

    You wouldn't hire someone from a good religious (law) school like BYU or Notre Dame? C'mon, get serious. I mean, aren't those schools national in a way.

    ReplyDelete
  31. BYU and Notre Dame are not prestigious enough for NYC Biglaw. Wasn't BYU's law school that reported Steve Young's NFL salary in it's employment stats back in the 90s? Can you imagine a kid seeing BYU's employment stats back in the day and say "Wow, I too can make $7M a year by going to this school."

    ReplyDelete
  32. Nando's profiling of these schools has made me reconsider Descartes' position on animals. I now believe that there are some animals that are smarter than humans. Take for example Roscoe, the bedbug detecting beagle and Colby Nolan, the cum laude cat with an MBA. These animals are definitely smarter than any kid that decides to mortgage their future by attending any of the commodes featured here. Tom Jones School of Law? Give me a fucking break.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Beautiful! Jones and Cumberland: the two shithole Alabama law schools back to back. As I mentioned in the Cumberland thread, aside from a few pity hires from the law review, no "big" Alabama firm will touch these schools' graduates with a ten foot poll. I giggled when I said "big" Alabama firm. B&B, Burr, Sirote are the mud on an SAE's New Balances as he leaves Innisfree after a rough night re-living his glory days at BAMA.

    ReplyDelete
  34. @9:05,

    BYU, huh? These clowns are ranked 42nd. I don't know where they are ranked in Cooley's TTTT rankings. Anywau, BYU's law school is a shithole. ND isn't much better. WHy would NYC biglaw go after these kids, when they have several top ten law schools in the region to pick from?

    ReplyDelete
  35. @7:09

    If you can teach her the game, she is a very, very lucky person. Help her all you can.

    I had no mentors, and no guidance.

    The bigger the debt, the faster it can grow. Figure, like a mortgage, about 600 or a little more dollars for every 100 thoussand borrowed.

    So 200 grand is 1200 bucks a month.

    Default puts it completely out of reach, and that is when real despair starts to settle in.

    As far a religious theme goes: I grew up in Catholic School. I was an Altar Boy for three years.
    It was during the 70's when all of the pedophile stuff you heard about took place.

    I was never molested, but if I was ever left alone with some of the priests at the time. Who knows? Some of them were really strange.

    If I ever had children, I would never leave them with any kind of a religious figure. And I mean of any religion.

    Religion and Schools are an uneasy mix at best at all levels.

    I had some pretty psychopathic nuns growing up too. Physically violent. But that was the old days.

    I still go to Church,but I am an A&P Catholic. (Ashes and Palms. And funerals and weddings sometimes. But that's it.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Top 172 law schools cracked me the fuck up. While we're at it, Alabama was named one of the top 48 states!

    I grew up in Alabama and didn't even hear of this place until about a year ago. Seriously, even when applying to law school, I never got a whiff of it.

    ReplyDelete
  37. http://www.lawschool100.com/

    Their tag-line:

    “The Best Law Schools in the United States
    Based on Qualitative, Rather Than Quantitative, Criteria”

    Look! Somehow, this “organization” has Third Tier Drake and Fourth Tier Faulkner listed in the second tier! However, one soon realizes that “The Law School 100” only lists two tiers. These tools surely realize that legal employers care about a school’s reputation.

    What is really sad is that pre-law lemmings actually give credence to these TTTT web sites – which exist solely to extol the virtues of attending law school. This site, in particular, links to a piece of filth called lawschool.com/. At least, these tramps provided a link to the Slate piece, which highlighted the scam-blogs.

    http://www.lawschool.com/badinvestment.htm

    Law School 100 also provides a link to the following site:

    http://www.prelawschool.com/

    As you can see, this site is aimed at selling lemmings on the idea of online law schools; prelaw prep books and materials; pre-law advisors/consultants; and other leech “services.” Lemmings are focused on getting into law school - and out of sheer ignorance - many will be glad to fork over $100K for a law degree. These pigs feed off of that enthusiasm, i.e. they hope to fully exploit the driven college graduate.

    https://umd-csm.symplicity.com/events/students.php?cf=LAWSCHOOL10

    The commodes of law put tons of effort into law school fairs and “informational sessions.” Diploma mills from across the country send their top salespeople/recruiters to these events. What do you think their goal is?!?! (It sure as hell isn’t for the benefit of potential customers, i.e. students.)

    http://www.faulkner.edu/sharedmedia/jsl/Jones-Viewbook-8.08.pdf

    The sewers of law then send out glossy brochures/DVDs and provide optimistic “viewbooks.” They do so for the purpose of attracting more applicants and $tudent$.

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060.html

    Law schools then provide false and misleading employment stats. After all, they are trying to ATTRACT more applicants. The truth might hurt enrollment, thereby reducing the industry’s profits.

    Once in law school, the career development offices then work to ensure their top students find employment. When you receive your little diploma, the school kicks you to the curb. (They will make sure to ask you to donate.) Remember, they are looking out for the next round of fools.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Thanks JD Painter guy!
    I'm happy to share what I know with you as well. Obviously, a close personal friend who calls me on my cell phone with questions, has me 2nd chair depositions/trials etc., will learn faster. Most of how to actually practice law is a trade secret that lawyers keep very close to their vest. But I'm happy to share the fundamentals with you.

    @8:42 is right about the income of most solos being less than $100k. I'm fortunate to be a little better than most.

    Everytime I share some practice tips on this blog, I'm accussed of being a law school shill, Horation Algerist, etc. Nando is fundamentally correct about lawyer ovesupply. It is true that sharing practice tips in the comments does take away from Nando's overall message, even though it does not strictly contradict it.

    If you want to set up an dedicated email (so your real email doesn't get spammmed; this site gets 50,000 hits), I'm happy to answer practice questions. I probably should set up my own blog.

    I can't really help you though, until you pass the bar and get a law license.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Will the Tom Jones School of Law open a Billy Ray Cyrus campus/annex? If they do, my heart will be very achy for the future fate of those TTTT grads.

    ReplyDelete
  40. @1:37

    I have to smile. Horatio Algiers is probably more famous than he ever was because of Nando and TTR.

    I had a History class in College. (Not to be confused with this current post, which is shaping up to be the Tom Jones (and not Kay Kaiser) College of Musical Knowledge.

    Unlike my T4 crackpots, this Professor was a real one, and he analyzed a period in American History--middle to late 19th century, or around the time of the whole "Progressive" movement that Glenn Beck is so critical of.

    Anyway, this professor compared the then contemporary and popular Horation Algiers stories, such as "Luck and Pluck" to the realities of America back then.

    It was the first time I had ever heard of Horatio Algiers. I even believe he wrote "Rags to Riches" Let me check.....

    Well, look here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger,_Jr.

    Well, maybe rags to riches wasn't a title of a novel. And I've been spelling his name wrong too.

    It is Alger, not Algiers. And as the link says, his formula for success was:

    1. Hard Work
    2. Courage
    3. Determination
    4. Concern for others

    Now are these mutually exclusive elements?

    I've known many a hard-working bastard who doesn't give a shit about anyone else.

    I've met determined people that don't work hard and in fact use people, and don't care for others too.

    #4 surely doesn't apply to the state of the American Legal Profession, can it?

    Years ago I used to joke that all of my Mentors and/or people that I learned under in law school, and later worked with in my first job out of law school were: "Mentorly Retarded."
    --not to sound politically incorrect.

    And as you say, close to the vest is the way people keep things.

    But it takes many, many hours to learn how to handle a floor sanding machine, and sand a wood floor without seriously fucking it up with divits and chatter, and swirls etc. A good teacher can save many hours of trial and error.

    And it is like that with everything, even Law practice. And I say this just on general observation of life, and as a non-lawyer.

    It takes many hours of trade practice to learn how to lay off plaster so that the wall is perfect, like a new tabletop. If the would be plasterer doesn't have the "Touch" it will never be done to perfection.

    Just like a musician.
    Just like a sculptor, Portrait Painter etc.

    I feel sorry for people that have gone through law school, are now unemployed, and have to learn how to make a living all over again.

    They cant just answer a want and and start sanding down floors for a living. Or re-siding a house, or laying a new slate roof.

    All those years of learning are gone, and they are deeply in debt as well.

    Could the really talented would be lawyers have found jobs and "made it" in another day and age?

    And, by the way, a busted up plaster wall doesn't give a shit about the Palsgraf case.

    Neither do the Student Loan collection agencies.

    Ah, I'm just and old fart by now. I didn't listen to the long-winded old farts when I was a kid either.

    ReplyDelete
  41. It's not unusual to be living in mom's basement after graduating from this dump. It's not unusual to be shunned by former friends. WHen you see me holding my degree, it's not unusual to see me cry.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Good News Everybody!

    President Obama has decided to tell the US Supreme Court, the Congress, and the ABA that 150 Law Schools will be forced to close their doors.

    Effective Monday.

    All currently enrolled students will receive a full tuition refund, as well as 1 million dollars each for pain and suffering.

    All former Law Students with Student Loans will have their debt discharged, with no taxes owed, as well as a 1 million dollar gift as compensation for Pain and Suffering.

    All other debtors to Higher Education in general will likewise have their Studet Loans forgiven, with no taxes owed, and will receive one-half a million for their pain and suffering, bcause they were not subject to the stressful Socratic method of teaching.

    President Obama has also decreed that the Socratic Method of teaching has also been outlawed in the US, because it has been proven to lead to 6 figure debt.

    How was all of this paid for?

    Obama decided not to build a few more battleships, planes and missiles. (Just cutting back on a few seemed to cover the cost.)

    And so, as they say in the popular News Media after every fucked-up crisis or event.....


    1. Happily, a team of Crisis Counselors has been "Rushed To the Scene" to assist the
    "Families of the Victims."

    2. So as to provide "Closure"

    3. So that the "Healing Process can Begin"

    So let's all of us give each other big hugs.

    The Healing Process has begun.

    ReplyDelete
  43. First off, I want to know why you are writing reviews about law schools, yet you have no idea who Thomas Goode Jones is. Being that you are so good at backing up your statements with "facts" from wikipedia, you might want to wikipedia his name also moron. Next, If you received such a great law education from your school, shouldn't you be working in the legal field instead of being a blog writer, because blog writing is such a well respected profession. I have a feeling you were one of the students that failed out of JSL and that is why you are so bitter.

    Do you even know what places a school in tiers? If local attorney do not fill out the surveys sent to them, it will lower a school's ranking, if students don't fill out the surveys, they drop in ranking. The school was 3rd tier last year, but because of the surveys in concert with the lower end of GPA/LSAT scores it dropped.

    If Jones is such a terrible school why did their advocacy program beat Harvard in a moot court tournament last year or sweep the region in every tournament (meaning beating UT, UA, FL, Vandy, LSU, Ole Miss, etc.), why were they national champions in one and make another national championship. I guess those "facts" are not on wikipedia.

    If employment is such a problem, then why does Jones have students clerking for the AL Supreme Court, of for every major law firm in the area (and out of the area during summer), why are there firms and corporate legal departments that explicitly only hire Jones students because of the experiences they have had with them and this is a fact I personally know, not something I looked up on wikipedia.

    As far as your CSO comment, have you ever heard of a thing called a disclaimer. I just went to Yale's CSO page and it disclaims that all they may be able to assist a student in is resume writing and does not guarantee the student getting a job, wow Yale law must be a shithole of a school since their CSO doesn't guarantee them a job...oh wait never mind they are the #1 law school in the nation. You are a complete idiot.

    You really need to stop writing blogs on topics from which all your research comes from wikipedia, apparently you went to such a shithole of an undergrad that they did not teach wikipedia is not a valid source...maybe University of Phoenix?

    ReplyDelete
  44. P.S. if you are so good at researching, you would know it is the undergrad that is a Christian university, the law school is a separate entity and does not require any religious course or students to attend chapel, that is undergrad. I am not a Christian, nor are many students at Jones. Now that it being a religious school matters at all anyway, but once again we know how valid your arguments are in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Nando:

    Forgive 12:57. Just a kid with an easy pitch that you will slam over the fence, if not over the centerfield bleachers and out of the ballpark.

    But here is a little chestnut for 12:57

    This Tom Jones song is a little bit "Nasty" by the way. (Damn he was in good shape back then too!) No wonder the women in the audience screamed!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au6c-Xtab4Q

    ReplyDelete
  46. What you failed to mention about Thomas Goode Jones, the same reason he was selected as the name of the school, is that not only was a practicing attorney, but he also wrote the Alabama's code of legal ethics. I can't believe how you can take so many things either out of context, spin them how you would like them to be read, or the complete inaccuracies and all these "lemmings" as you like to refer to, follow your blog and eat up your every word. Please stop writing about things of which you have no clue about and get a real job.

    ReplyDelete
  47. To the moron who posted at 12:54, 12:57 and 2:04,

    This commode is in the FOURTH TIER, not the third tier. Learn how to open and follow a link, idiot. Also, there are many things that go into the USN&WR rankings. However, reputation is a huge component of that rankings scheme. Look at what posters from Alabama have said about this fourth tier trash can.

    Also, this site relies on facts, charts, figures and statements put out by the industry itself. The Tom Jones School of Law and Unbuttoned Shirts is a joke. If you knew how to read, you would see that I graduated from Third Tier Drake. Develop some tougher skin, loser. Your toilet of law is merely one of numerous commodes highlighted on this blog.

    I referred to Wikipedia once, out of the ten sites I listed in my comments. Furthermore, I did not cite to Wikipedia once out of the eleven cites - counting the hyperlinks - I used in the main entry. I went to that site to show that this piece of excrement has been around since 1928. IT ONLY TOOK THE SCHOOL 78 YEARS TO GAIN FULL ACCREDITATION from the ABA!! Wow! What an accomplish, huh?!?!

    That means, that I used Wikipedia once - out of many sources used. Learn how to count, bitch.

    Lastly, look at your pathetic writing skills. I suppose that says a lot about the “quality” of student these bottom-feeding law schools attract. Now, quit crying and get back to reading for your next TTTT class. After all, the “professor” may call on you in class. You wouldn’t want all of your classmates to know what an idiot you are, would you?!?!

    “If Jones is such a terrible school why did their advocacy program beat Harvard in a moot court tournament last year or sweep the region in every tournament (meaning beating UT, UA, FL, Vandy, LSU, Ole Miss, etc.), why were they national champions in one and make another national championship. I guess those "facts" are not on wikipedia.”

    News flash: nobody cares about Moot Court, i.e. fake court, competitions. Law is based on “prestige.” And Tom Jones SOL has less prestige than one of Tom Jones’s tattered coats. Those other schools’ grads will find jobs much easier than you, moron.

    http://www.faulkner.edu/jsl/info/mission.asp

    “As part of the Faulkner University community, the School of Law shares Faulkner University’s mission to glorify God by embracing academic excellence and emphasizing a strong commitment to integrity within a caring Christian environment.”

    I guess charging mental midgets $31K per year in tuition, for a TTTT education and toilet job prospects, falls in line with Christian teachings, right?! This is the law school’s mission statement, by the way. Do you understand that?!

    ReplyDelete
  48. I don't know much about the school personally, but I do know that I've never heard of it. Moreover, it's located in Alabama, atwo-bit state if there ever was one. Sorry to be so harsh, but do you really think big law firms outside of the Bible Belt would hire from Tom Jones School of Law? Sounds like Bob Jones University to me. All I can say it despite the rebuttal, you will soon find out that attending this piece of shit school was a complete waste of time ... unless you decide to become a solo practitioner as that will likely be the only opportunity you have at being a lawyer. Then you will really know the meaning of struggle as you embark on paying off your mega student loans on $30-75K per year. Sorry to bust your little Alabamie bubble.

    ReplyDelete
  49. @ 2:55, read my last post regarding that I work for a large corporation's legal department as a first semester 2L, and if I were full time I would make well over $30k, I made over $30k before I went to law school, you might want to get you figures correct. Nice try, I am sorry for bursting your little Iowan bubble (I assume Iowa, since I couldn't think that someone from any other state would buy into this sputter from podunk Nando's laptop in a corn field in Iowa).

    ReplyDelete
  50. @ 12:54 / 12:57 / 2:04

    A swing and a miss.

    Don't take it personal, most of the readers of this blog were also victims of the law school scam. I remember being defensive before I knew any better. The first step is getting past the denial phase and facing reality: you have been scammed and defrauded. This school is garbage. No one--except those who profit from it and those who try to justify their having attended it--respects this place! It is a joke. Sorry. The same can be said for my TTTT and the 100+ other for-profit, diploma mill law schools in this country. Worst of all, if you have borrowed large sums of money in pursuit of this toilet degree, you are destined to become a debt slave for the next 20+ years.

    Hopefully you are a 1L or at worst a fist-semester 2L; if so, there is still time to cut your losses and move on with your life. If you are a 3L and are borrowing money to attend this shithole, then I'm afraid it's already too late for you.

    Good luck kid. You'll need it.

    ReplyDelete
  51. n/m I guess Nando didn't like me embarrassing him in front his friends and deleted the last post, because it was posted and now conveniently gone.

    ReplyDelete
  52. To 12:54, 12:57, 2:04, 4:19, 4:21:

    1. You need to learn proper English grammar.
    2. Even if Moot Court or Advocacy Competitions mattered, Goode does not have a well-renowned team (and Harvard doesn't care about such things).
    3. It's significantly easier to get a job as a student than after getting out. Making 30k before law school is no guarantee you'll make 30k afterward.

    I think others have covered your other deficiencies.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Montgomery Moron’s Activity for Today:

    Time Visitor Session

    Dec 4 2010 5:48pm 24.96.42.72 1 action 10s
    Dec 4 2010 4:13pm 24.96.42.72 14 actions 26m 51s
    Dec 4 2010 3:29pm 24.96.42.72 2 actions 10m 24s
    Dec 4 2010 1:44pm 24.96.42.72 3 actions 21m 12s
    Dec 4 2010 12:34pm 24.96.42.72 4 actions 23m 17s

    We can see that this visitor - from Montgomery, AL - made both ignorant comments at 12:54 and 12:57 pm today. Dumbass then felt the need to post another patently idiotic comment at 2:04 pm. As if that wasn’t enough, the moron decided to add two more stupid comments at 4:19 and 4:21 pm. Get a life, kid. Go watch some football or get a girlfriend. Actually, in your specific case, go purchase a blow-up doll.

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=24.96.42.72

    This user’s info shows that his host is based out of St. Petersburg, FL. However, my Google Analytics shows that this person is viewing the blog from Montgomery. I have noticed several visitors from Faulkner Univer$iTTTTy, over the last few days. Too bad Jesus isn’t around to toss those change makers out of that Christian commode. That would make for a sweet blog entry.

    Have fun trying to find ANY gainful employment upon graduation from this festering, sweltering, disgusting dung heap. And good luck learning the difference between a third tier commode and a fourth tier piece of trash. With such “stellar” observational skills - combined with your “excellent” grammar - you must be making a killing for that corporate legal department. Then again, you don’t need a law degree - or a Bachelor’s degree, for that matter - to work for Collections at Sears or JC Penney. Nice try, Dumbass.

    We can see that this loser has spent 81 minutes and 54 seconds on this site today. He has made 24 actions during those five visits. It is safe to say that this kid has no life. Furthermore, I did not delete any of your posts, idiot. You want to make accusations?! You better be prepared to back up those claims, douche-bag. Why would I want to delete your comments? You keep posting nonsense, i.e. you undermine your own position.

    Are you done making a fool of yourself on this blog, or would you like me to keep smacking you over the head with the facts?! The bottom line is that this school is a comical fourth tier toilet. I have drafted a profile on another law school. However, if you prefer, I can let this turd, i.e. Thomas Goode Jones Sewer of Law, air out for a few more days.

    ReplyDelete
  54. I agree with a lot of what Nando says, but I would be remiss not to mention that he really shouldn't tell other people to "[g]et a life, Kid" when he takes time to look up and post a commenter's time visitor session. IF THAT WAS NOT ENOUGH, Nando also had to look up his location on Google Analytics.

    And what did this commenter do to deserve such attention, you ask? He had the AUDACITY to post something critical of Nando. THE HORROR!

    Seems like you should follow your own advice, Nando, and get a life. Not everyone is going to agree with what you post or your cause. And yes, sometimes those people might post a nasty comment or two on your blog. But seriously man, grow a pair and get over it. Stick to the facts AND STOP BEING SO SENSITIVE. How did you expect to practice law without having people disagree with you from time to time?

    ReplyDelete
  55. The ill spoken Tom Jones law student was good yet sad comic relief. As a hiring attorney, moot court and related accolades such as "best oralist" mean nothing to me. Your school beat Harvard? So did Florida Coastal. In the real world, no one in their right mind would find that impressive. The lowest ranked student at Harvard Law School will always have better employment prospects than the top student at this sorry excuse for a law school. That is a fact. Tom Jones may produce some Alabama court clerks but this is meaningless. $31K a year to attend this vulgar institution masquerading as a law school is a rip off and any student that attends this school was marginal and not good enough to get into a normal law school. I hope Jesus comes down with the wrath of a thousand plagues when he judges the administrators of this school, who have taken the lord's name in vain for the sake of profit.

    ReplyDelete
  56. 7:40 pm,

    I enjoy discussing this topic. I actually welcome debate and discussion on this issue. However, it is well past time that the law school industry apologists back up their weak arguments with some solid facts. They need to illustrate why law school is a good "investment."

    When these shills and defenders are unable to make their case, they resort to knee-jerk reactions, i.e. name-calling and straw men. For instance, the kid from Montgomery inferred that I only relied on Wikipedia for my facts. Also, here is the very first comment from this idiot:

    “First off, I want to know why you are writing reviews about law schools, yet you have no idea who Thomas Goode Jones is. Being that you are so good at backing up your statements with "facts" from wikipedia, you might want to wikipedia his name also moron.”

    How would you like me to respond to that nonsense? By giving him a stuffed animal and a warm bottle of milk?! I have tough skin. However, at some point, my patience wears thin. Admittedly, I have a low tolerance for willful ignorance and patent idiocy. When shills, lemmings and apologist cockroaches persist in BLATANT IGNORANCE and monumental stupidity, I am not obligated to treat them with one ounce of respect. They have shown themselves REPEATEDLY, via their actions, on this blog and other forums that they are not worthy of any respect.

    The mental deficient then claimed I deleted a comment. I never saw that comment. Somehow, his five other comments made it on here. And based on all of the semi-literate garbage in those five comments, I am sure his “deleted comment” contained ground-breaking information. Sadly, the world will miss out on that revelation.

    By the way, I didn’t run that moron into the ground for being critical of me. I slammed his head into a car door because that law student kept posting COMPLETELY STUPID comments. Do you understand that?!

    “And yes, sometimes those people might post a nasty comment or two on your blog.”

    Thanks for that earth-shattering news. Remember that when people post stupid comments - that contain nothing substantive - they too can expect a swift backhand from me. In the end, it is YOU who needs to grow a pair - and realize that adults will often disagree. Those disagreements are often harsh.

    By the way, the following is douche language:

    “I agree with a lot of what Nando says, but I would be remiss not to mention that he really shouldn't tell other people to "[g]et a life, Kid" when he takes time to look up and post a commenter's time visitor session.”

    “I would be remiss.” Funny stuff. Maybe when you grow a pair of balls, you will start thinking and talking like a man.

    ReplyDelete
  57. You are complete moron, first I spent time on this page because I posted two long responses, the second of which was posted I even saw it when i came back to the page, but yet on my next visit, it was missing, only logical assumption is that it was removed. You did not slap me around, had my other post not been removed I responded to your many incorrect assertions. I am not wasting my time writing that post again. And in that post you removed, I explicitly said I was a law clerk idiot, so no unlike you i do not work in collections. And if you were intelligent wouldn't you know that a collections department is not in the legal department jackass. Like the other poster above mentioned, why don't you get off a blog and try to apply for gainful employment and get a life. Very funny telling people to get a life when you are an unemployed idiot from a shit school who sits on his ,likely fat, ass all day and posts blogs about schools you know nothing about. Yes because using proper writing skills on the internet makes you so smart, I use writing skills in real life, you know in a job, criticizing internet writing kills is such a bitch move, but being a bitch I guess it could be expected of you. Once again, go get a job loser, there has to be some farm in Iowa that needs a hog shit scooper.

    ReplyDelete
  58. @11:42

    There are a few words that most people spell incorrectly.

    Criticise is one of them. It is with an s, and not a Z.

    Also Advertising. An S and not a Z.

    But when you spell criticising (sic)it makes me wince sort of.But I have been known to make many a similar error in my zeal.

    But minor points of spelling are secondary to the real message.

    But you are not spending much time researching TTR, and very uninformed as to the premise.

    Nando is employed by the way.

    But still, you are here, and I hope that maybe you can be won over to the side of TTR as you learn and grow with this blog. Hopefully, spend a lot more time reading previous posts and comments.

    You cannot be blamed for your knee jerk reaction, in a sense. It does take a lot of time to "read up" on any subject.

    I only hope that you care enough to learn more about Nando, and the many, many suffering scammed debtors that support him in spirit.

    ReplyDelete
  59. "And in that post you removed, I explicitly said I was a law clerk idiot..."

    Really, Nando, you have to give this guy some respect for offering such a frank concession.

    ReplyDelete
  60. @11:42:

    Who are you a law clerk for?

    ReplyDelete
  61. @jdpainterguy I completely respect that response and your awareness. In the post that is no longer up I conceded the point of tuition being ridiculously over the value of a 3rd tier when I was admitted and now a 4th tier. I understand the strife of what many are going through, I have many friends who are unemployed (not law graduates, but that is beside the point). The problem here which is also the reason I will not take you up on your otherwise reasonable offer to get better acquainted with the site is based on the way nando goes about it and possibly they way other bloggers on TTR do as well. It is uncalled for and unnecessary for him to rip into schools which he has no clue about, in the post that is no longer on here I went through several things he couldn't account for based on the fact he is behind a computer and not at this institution. Because I respect you post, hopefully you can respect an honest response, what he posted about Jones is 80% incorrect or out of context.

    There is no reason he could not just discuss the debt institution as whole, a blog on the comparative structures to the Nordic countries free tuition plus financial aide that just goes in a student's pocket would make for a good topic or a discussion of Obama's new policies on student debt, or about how the rush back to school during recession and how it will play out for our futures. But no, he chooses to blast schools he has never been to and has no facts on except what is on a website and then tells me I'm wrong when I actually attend the school. I think I would know better than he how religious this institution is, I think I know the quality of professors and how rigorous it is, I know what the school is doing to move up in ranks. CONT...

    ReplyDelete
  62. Simple facts like the Dean's tuition is good to know, but the facts behind that is that he was the dean at Pepperdine before here and was there since they were accredited until they rose up to being a top 25 law school in this country...that is why he is paid $200k, Jones wants him to do the same thing he did at Pepperdine. There are many background facts he cannot report because he is not here, such as the groundbreaking a month ago for a huge addition. Or also, the reason why so much time lapsed between the start and accreditation, was at first that it was a night law school up until a few years ago when they cancelled it to stray from being a joke of a law school and literally probably the last 5 or more years they were not able to get accreditation was 100% because of the library not being organized how the ABA wanted it.

    The premise for the blog that you state sounds like a great and interesting topic, but that purpose is lost on blogs written by nando at the very least.

    ReplyDelete
  63. @9:32PM

    Pepperdine a top 25 law school? It has never happened, not even in the Cooley rankings. Before you attempt to discredit others, you should bolster your own credibility by citing to cold hard facts. Pepperdine has never been a top 25 law school. Law school deans are money raising mercs. Plain and simple.

    ReplyDelete
  64. @9:32

    I went to Touro on Long Island.
    By the time I enrolled in 1992, it had been ABA accredited for all of 3 to 5 years I believe.

    It was a new school, had wildly skewed grading, and instituted a bell curve system in 93.
    But way back in 92 there was a lot of talk about plans for a move to a new location, and that the school would be adjacent to a Federal Court complex.

    That the set-up would be a first of its kind, and that the students would be able to observe and get unprecedented training etc etc.

    Well, Touro did make that move eventually; did everything they planned to do. And now Touro is Fucking around with study abroad programs in India.

    I didn't pay much attention to the alumni mail I would get from Touro over the years, but I was shocked to learn on the Jobless Juris Doctor blog about six months ago-- that Touro had never made it out of the 4th tier.

    That's when I started to follow these blogs.

    In addition,I carry almost 300 thousand in student debt. Default last year made it instantly increase by 50 thousand dollars. Yes, the collection costs were 50 thousand taxpayer dollars. I have absolute proof of that as well.

    But my problems have nothing to do with your school of course as you say.

    But if I could just ask you one thing: Be very, very careful with the student debt. It will destroy your life if it gets away from you.
    If you are paying for an education, you have a right to know if it will benefit your life, or ruin it financially. A simple question.

    Ask your classmates if they have work lined up. Ask the ones that are at the bottom of the class and working as hard as they can to merely pass.

    And my mistake, I'm wrong about the spelling of criticise. Also advertising. They can be with an s or a z. Similarly Color or colour have alternate spellings. Also Grey or Gray etc.
    I keep a good old fashioned dictionary on my desk, and need to refer to it more often.

    BTW, if what one writes is too long, it doesn't get posted. That might have been what happened to you. You have to break it up into parts.

    That might happen to me now.

    And be proud that Nando beats you up. If you stay in Law, you are going to hear and see it all. So don't turn away, start now and follow these blogs.
    After all, your taxpayer dollars are going to be paying for defaulted federally subsidised (spelling) loans as well.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Gotta Love a man that wears a Leisure Suit:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrwO8b9iq34

    ReplyDelete
  66. “I posted two long responses, the second of which was posted I even saw it when i came back to the page, but yet on my next visit, it was missing, only logical assumption is that it was removed.”

    Guess what, Stupid? I never saw that comment. As you stated above, you ASSUMED that I removed it. As JD Painter noted, Blogger is not a perfect system. Go take up your personal hurt and grievances with them, bitch. Tom Jones law student, you have been wrong about pretty much everything you wrote. This means you have ZERO credibility.

    By the way, Moron, I have a full-time job. I landed this job within two months of graduating from Third Tier Drake.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+3

    It is highly unlikely that Pepperdine was ever ranked as a top 25 law school. As you can see, the school is now ranked 52nd best. You made the claim. Now it is time for YOU to prove that Pepperdine was a top 25 school. Cite us chapter and verse, as I have done over the last 15 months. Put up or shut your mouth.

    Also, Tom Jones SOL is not ranked where it is because a few legal practitioners failed to return their surveys. Here is USN&WR’s methodology for ranking law schools, moron.

    http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-law-schools/2010/04/15/the-law-school-rankings-methodology.html

    The following facts are indisputable:

    1. The Thomas Goode Jones Sewer of Law was fully-accredited in 2006, after having been around since 1928. Apparently, it took 78 years to gain accreditation from the ABA. (Now, you tell us that the ABA took so long because Tom Jones world-class staff was unable to organize their library correctly.)

    2. The average student loan debt for the Class of 2009 was $74,674. Also, 86% of that class took on additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt to attend this stink pit.

    3. The school is a fourth tier piece of trash.

    4. The dean at this commode made just under $200K for 2008.

    5. Graduates of this toilet of law have PATHETIC job prospects. Law is about prestige.

    http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

    There were 44,000 graduates for the law school Class of 2009 - competing for 28,901 jobs requiring bar passage. Look at this report by NALP. Look at the number of part-time and temporary positions. See how many grads went back to their old jobs. Don’t let your feelings further cloud your already-weak judgment, bitch.

    ReplyDelete
  67. jdpainterguy wrote:
    "It is Alger, not Algiers. And as the link says, his formula for success was:
    1. Hard Work
    2. Courage
    3. Determination
    4. Concern for others"

    I realize you're only summarizing from the link you found, but as someone who actually read dozens of Alger novels for a thesis some years back I can attest that you're missing a critical factor in that list. In nearly every one of Alger's rags-to-riches tales, the hero (who generally exhibits each of the aforementioned traits) gains wealth and/or a desirable professional position through a stroke of luck. Yes, dumb luck, as in rescuing someone stranded on railroad tracks from an oncoming train, or jumping into the street to pull a child out from before an oncoming bus, or diving in the river to rescue a drowning girl whose grateful father happens to be a millionare. Etc., etc.

    So the Alger point squares perfectly with Nando's central thesis: as an aspiring attorney, one can exhibit tenacity, bravery, and hard work and those qualities alone aren't likely to get one very far ... but pre-existing connections, being independently wealthy, or simply being in the right place at the right time might help one succeed despite the overwhelming odds.

    p.s. Alger is rather an icky analogy in any event -- just read about how his own abuse of his position as a pastor led to his flight from the pulpit, which caused him to take up writing in middle age.

    ReplyDelete
  68. When I went to law school nearly 20 years ago, Pepperdine was in the Third Tier. However, Pepperdine Law School did have the top ranked T&A department among all law schools (I am not talking about Trusts and Acquisitions here). It had a reputation of being a party school so perhaps the Tommy Jones law student mistakenly imputed its former status as a top 25 Party School to the law school rankings. The fact that Pepperdine is now in the Second Tier can only mean that other shitty schools (e.g., Tom Jones Law School, etc.) have been thrown in the cesspool and it has made lighter schools such as Pepperdine float to the Second Tier.

    Our government needs to stop guaranteeing federal loan money that goes into the coffers of these criminal institutions. They are peddling a weak product at a high premium. In many states, this would be considered consumer fraud.

    ReplyDelete
  69. This school is so shitty, it doesn't even have a chance at cracking the third tier.

    Oh, and Colby Nolan's turds have a better chance at practicing law than does a graduate of this sweltering shithole.

    ReplyDelete
  70. @10:15 said:

    "Our government needs to stop guaranteeing federal loan money that goes into the coffers of these criminal institutions. They are peddling a weak product at a high premium. In many states, this would be considered consumer fraud."

    Very well said. Amen, and thanks. I'm always trying to find a new and influential way to express the concept.

    "Weak Product" is an artfully created and deadly accurate term. And the premium, as you say, is too terribly high to sustain itself any longer. The cost in Human suffering is too great.

    And how many more lives are going to be destroyed until the ABA or if not the ABA, the American People wake up to this reality?

    And as Nando points out--full accreditation only 4 years ago for this school. That is a red flag for sure.

    I mean, local is local, but even the good ol' local boys have to meet a certain standard. Really.

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  71. December 6, 2010 10:15 AM:

    You stole my thunder on the Pepperdine thing, 10:15. That's the first thing that came to my mind prior to your posting--whether its, uh, standing had more to do with the attractiveness of the campus in various forms than with its academic notoriety.

    It puzzles me to no end the rage of those who protest here about the low esteem in which their school is held, without referencing the fact it is the LAW SCHOOL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX itself which is prestige -and ranking-obsessed.

    As to the Tom Jones School of Law, or whatever, its apologists may have a bigger beef with USN&WR for that school's being positioned in the Fourth Tier of American Law Schools. This site surely didn't put it there. This site didn't invent that horrid mechanism to which law schools, for some reason, gladly submit. Dentistry, for example, protects its kids and won't play ball with USNWR.

    So those shills/apologists found to be unhappy with peoples' low opinion of Tom Jones best have a chat with that publication as well, which is the source and originator for all things deemed prestigious.

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  72. Wow. Someone's actually defending this shithole?

    Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain...

    Enjoy your future, slick.

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  73. Sort of on topic since jdpainterguy made mention of Touro's contemplating study abroad program in India, I came across this little gem on the ABA's website. Apparently the ABA needs to give some more thought, or as they put it "study", before accrediting foreign law schools.

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/aba_puts_off_decision_on_accreditation_of_foreign_law_schools

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  74. Where is the Colonel in all of this? Surely he has something to say about Tom Jones School of Law...

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  75. Nando, once again, you have no clue as to my credibility because all you do is hide behind a computer, I am here, I know what I am talking about. And did you ever once sit and think oh hey 25 and 52 look a lot of like, it was a typo, I meant 52 it came out 25 from typing the incorrect number first. Which I don't know how you are still criticizing that ranking, being just outside of the top 50 is respectable, especially being that Drake isn't even top 100. Continue being a complete hypocrite and cry because you work a shit job in Iowa, from all of the schools you are criticizing, we all apologize that you life is so miserable and useless that you have to write a blog complaining all day long. Maybe one day you will crawl out of your mother's basement away from your computer and enjoy life a little. I notice you have hit another school already, one actually ranked 56th in the country...don't understand where you get the audacity.

    You are supposed to graduate in one of the hardest professions in the country, yet you act like a 14-year-old world of warcraft player hiding behind a computer screen calling everyone a bitch or a douchebag. Grow the fuck up and move on with your life...I'm sure the ABA would approve of this blog, that is if you even passed the bar and have a license.

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  76. ^^^Brilliant display of the maturity, reasoning, and English language abilities of a Tom Jones student.

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  77. To the tool at 7:48 pm,

    “Simple facts like the Dean's tuition is good to know, but the facts behind that is that he was the dean at Pepperdine before here and was there since they were accredited until they rose up to being a top 25 law school in this country...that is why he is paid $200k, Jones wants him to do the same thing he did at Pepperdine.”

    Others also criticized your mathematical deficiency. Also, WHY would you need to point out that the school was once ranked in the "top 52"? Is that some magical number?

    Wow! Drake is not in the top 100?!?! So I have been CORRECTLY referring to it as Third Tier Drake, all along?!?! Guess what, son? It is still ranked higher than your FOURTH TIER trash can.

    Your school is such a joke that people are comparing it to Tom Jones, the singer. At least, he made money, traveled the world, and has entertained millions. Contrast that with Tom Jones SOL students who will be busy entertaining collection calls from Sallie Mae – for years.

    In the end, you have ZERO credibility. I have exposed you as a lemming. That was nice of you to try to sneak in some nonsense on an old thread. I have since moved onto Loyola Law School, the 56th greatest, most phenomenal, exhilarating and amazing law school in the United States. Apparently, those students do not have great job prospects, either.

    Lastly, who cares if the ABA would approve of this blog? I don’t need validation from that racketeer influenced and corrupt organization. They keep approving fifth-rate pieces of trash, such as the one YOU are attending, i.e. the Thomas Goode Jone$ Sewer of Law at Faulkner Univer$iTTTTy. They have allowed U.S. law firms to hire foreign lawyers and non-lawyers to work on American legal discovery. See ABA “Ethics” Opinion 08-451.

    Also, I don’t live in my mother’s basement, cockroach. I have not lived with my parents since I turned 18 and went to college. I also own a modest home, and have been married for over 5 years. You should try asking a woman out some time, kid. It might help you get over your inferiority complex.

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  78. December 7, 2010 7:48 PM

    I have passed he bar and have a license, and would advise anyone in the current economic scenario to avoid, in ALMOST all circumstances, attending one of these unconscionable fraud academies. It shocks the conscience that in this horridly prestige-obsessed arena,any such school would charge those kind of prices for a very dicey degree.

    All the scamblogs do is perform a vital public service, giving the rest of the story to potential law students on the many down-sides inherent in this nasty industry. And, there are many of them which bear highlighting. You would be well served, sir, not to take these blogs personally. Rather, accept the fact that law school is now, officially, a real gamble, and the scamblogs may keep some perople from financially ruining themselves.

    What's wrong with that, and why does it trouble you so?

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  79. I know a student here who got a 143 on the lsat. They are from Montgomery and supposedly the parents are paying for it. They have a nice home with several mortgages on it. So while it looks like the kid is "rich" and the parents are "paying for it" nothing is ever free. The kid is an idiot, btw. No family connections in the legal industry and I doubt they will ever practice or practice for long.

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  80. I believe in the mission of this school. I also believe that this schoolprovides students without the best lsat scores and gpas access to a legal education.

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  81. I just had to leave you a note, because you are a person after my own heart. This is exactly what I do when institutions piss me off. Both my daughter and son-in-law graduated cum laude from George Washington Law School, and they both have jobs AND their own law firm, and will be paying off their student loans for more than a decade to come. I'm just looking for a source with hopes of auditing a Constitutional Law class, so that I can undertake the windmill-tilting that will keep me busy trying to learn and overturn The Patriot Act. See, I'm pissed off that the Constitution has been rendered moot by The Patriot Act, so I plan to do kind of what you're doing here -- letting the innocents know what's happening in their country, I wish you well. You've done a hell of a good job here. Kudos!

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  82. Just lost my message, so don't know what's going to show up, but if the url is present, it's part of what I did when the Arkansas Department of Correction pissed me off.

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  83. This school is a turd. It's even worse than Birmingham School of Law which is non accredited. My wife's boyfriend went there and he's doing just fine. His billboards are everywhere (all over the south east). Even my kids look just like him. It just goes to show it doesn't matter where you go to school. If you work your ass off you can make it. My wife's boyfriend went to a non accredited law school and he's doing just fine. He just gave her a 2 week trip to Nassau. And you're crying because you went to an accredited school?

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  84. Obviously Jones School of Law is not a prestigious law school, but then it is designed to offer a legal education to those students who wish to become attorneys but lack the GPA and LSAT to gain admittance to a more prestigious law school. That is the purpose of this law school and it serves that purpose.

    A law degree allows one to find employment as an attorney. Unless a student graduates in the top half of a well respected law school, finding employment in a good law firm is going to be extremely unlikely. This leaves the majority of law school graduates looking for work in government, small firms, or as solo practitioners. Your success in those fields, once you obtain that first job, will be determined by your work ethos and talent, not by the law school you attended. And Jones School of Law allows you to obtain that first job because it provides you with a law degree--the basic requirement for any job as an attorney.

    In Alabama, one need only visit the State's Attorney General's Office, the District Attorney's Office, or the US Attorney's Office and one will discover several graduates of Jones working in all three prosecutorial offices. Those are good positions and they pay well. Moreover, for the aggressive and diligent attorney willing to work long hours, there are more than a few examples of very successful Jones Law graduates. I personally know several millionaires who attended Jones. The degree only allows you to get your "foot in there door;" what you do from there is up to you.

    Is your Jones law degree as prestigious in Alabama as one from the University of Alabama (my law school alma mater) or Cumberland School of Law? Absolutely not, but it is what you do with it that will determine your success. Of course it will be more difficult finding employment than seeking employment with a degree from a better school, but that is the risk you take if you want to be a lawyer but lacked the necessary credentials to gain admittance to a better law school. The school serves its purpose. What you do with your degree is up to you.

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    Replies
    1. Don't forget the number of judges from Jones as well. Kenneth Ingram served on the Alabama Supreme Court back in the 1990s, and he is a fellow Jones alum.

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  85. Having been an attorney since 1980, it has been my experience that the competency or success of an attorney has much more to do with the respective lawyer himself or herself than it does with the law school that the lawyer attended. That said, what is with these over-the-top emotional comments about Jones?

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  86. For some reason, years ago I received huge glossy pamphlets (really more like books) from Tom Jones School of Law and Cumberland School of Law, both of which I understand are fourth-tier Alabama schools with strong religious bents. Why in the name of God I would be expected to consider one of these schools, as an out-of-stater no less (I live in Georgia) is a question I'm still trying to answer. I guess the folks at Tom Jones and Cumberland were just that desperate.

    Their marketing people deserve praise at least - the materials they sent me are really well put together. Completely boring and unconvincing, of course, but still, nicely designed and constructed. I hope that not too many 0Ls are duped into seriously considering these schools on that basis. Even if they are just plain gullible, I have to have some sympathy for them. So should you, tolivr. You went to Alabama Law, so you didn't have the TTTT experience. I didn't either, and I'm grateful for that. But a post written by someone who did (say, a recent Tom Jones grad) would be much more informative, wouldn't it?

    @Edward George
    If you really have been an attorney since 1980, you obviously went to law school at a time when the legal job market wasn't like it is now. Maybe back then, someone had a reasonable chance of doing well and keeping their debt low from a lower-tier school, but it's not the case today.

    Also, your comment about the quality of a lawyer not depending on their law school may be true. However, even if someone really smart and capable graduates from a third- or fourth-tier school, there are plenty of employers who won't give their resume more than two seconds of attention before tossing it in the bin. Doesn't matter how great the potential lawyer might be - what's the difference if he doesn't even get a chance based upon his poor choice of law school?

    Here in Georgia, for example, we have an accredited law school, John Marshall, an esteemed institution that, looking through the backlog, Mr. Nando has covered as well. Legal employers and lawyers in Georgia generally know John Marshall, but with few exceptions, they consider the school an absolute joke. JM is in the fourth tier and is a for-profit diploma mill. Sure, their grads who pass the bar get their licenses, but if I were in a hiring position right now, I wouldn't consider a JM grad at all for the simple reason that they were short-sighted or dumb enough to attend such a school, because this wouldn't bode well as far as their job performance goes. I've met a few JM grads lucky enough to get jobs in various DA and PD offices, as judicial clerks, and in small firms, and a handful of them seem to be at least competent at their jobs, but they are certainly the exceptions. And nobody outside of Georgia knows what the hell a John Marshall Law School is, so there's no hope for the JM grad to escape his school's reputation.

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  87. I went to Jones Law School. I had a very pleasant experience there. I have NO regrets about attending there. I did not have all the contacts that commenters seem to think one must have. However, I set out to hang my own shingle anyway. I did so, and I have had a successful practice for 18 years.

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