Sunday, December 12, 2010

Unaccredited, Overpriced Piece of Trash: University of California, Irvine School of Law



Tuition and Fees: For the 2010-2011 school year, full-time tuition and required fees for in-state residents total $40,550.50. Would you like to know the cost for a non-California resident? (Are you sure?!) For out-of-state students, attending full-time, these costs amount to $50,573.50 – for the same academic year.

What’s that you say lemming? The commode’s first entering class received full-tuition scholarships, the second class received half-tuition scholarships, and now the third class will receive 1/3 scholarships?! Well, guess what? Tuition at this school remains prohibitive. Also, at some point in time, the school will not provide such generous financial aid awards. Plus, do you see the UC Irvine Sewer of Law decreasing tuition?!?!

http://www.law.uci.edu/financial_aid/costs-aid-prospective.html

Total Cost of Attendance: In the worst-case scenario, i.e. out-of-state student living off campus, the school estimates that the nine month student budget will amount to $23,815. This would bring the estimated COA to $74,388.50 – over nine months.

Seeing that actual students need to live for 12 months – as opposed to nine – here is a more accurate COA, for such a poor soul. Housing/living costs would be $23,753; travel would account for $3,244; and personal costs would add up to $3,072. We add this to the unaffected expense for law books, i.e. $1,908, and reach additional costs of $31,972. When added to the out-of-state tuition charge, we can see that this poor bastard would be backhanded with a total COA – for one year – of $82,530.50. Anyone foolish enough to attend this commode in the Fall will be realistically looking at MONSTROUS DEBT.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/

Ranking: Seeing that this school is not yet fully-accredited by the ABA, the school has not been included in the US News & World Report rankings. Who knows? One day, it might land in the top 100 law schools.

http://www.law.uci.edu/accreditation.html

“The Law School makes no representation to any applicant that it will be approved by the American Bar Association prior to the graduation of any matriculating student.”

Who wouldn’t want to slap down $40,550.50 – or $50,573.50 – per year, for a chance to earn a JD from this place?!?! Then again, the ABA is happy to accredit just about any building with several bookshelves, some desks, running water, a printer and a fax machine as a law school.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/uc-irvine-everybody-has-a-job/

Employment Prospects: Everyone in the school’s inaugural class of 60 students allegedly had jobs lined up for their first summer; most of these were public interest jobs. However, seeing that the first class does not graduate until May 2012, it might be difficult to “network” with fellow alumni.

http://www.law.uci.edu/current/cal_bar_info.html

Furthermore, students at this trash pit are not yet eligible to sit for the California bar exam.

“University of California, Irvine School of Law students are not eligible to register until the school receives provisional ABA approval. We are hopeful approval will be granted in spring 2011.”

Potential Upside:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_Irvine_School_of_Law

“UC Irvine Law aspires to be a top 20 law school, although they have not been in existence long enough to be officially ranked by US News.”

Yeah – and I aspire to have a threesome with Jessica Alba and Salma Hayek this weekend. Maybe Jessica will let me put her ankles behind her head.

Conclusion: This school is an unaccredited, overpriced sewer. It hopes to one day land in the top 20 law schools. However, this is one hell of a gamble to make on one’s future. For the foreseeable future, this school’s students will be trampled by the graduates of USC and UCLA JDs – at least with regards to finding jobs. The Regents of the Univer$iTTTy of California decided to open a law school NOT because there is a greater need for lawyers – but because they see this as a cash cow for the university system. I know that the state is financially broke, but this is supposed to be a PUBLIC SCHOOL. On top of all this, the school is preparing its students and graduates to enter public service.

Do not enter this law school UNLESS you: (a) come from a very wealthy background and money is not an issue; (b) want some more letters behind your name; (c) do not mind spending/wasting three years of your life reading parsed public record, i.e. appellate court decisions; and (d) do not care whether you become a lawyer.

Otherwise, one could be easily looking at $170K-$240K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, after three years. At that level, even a Biglaw job would not make this a wise investment. Then again, UC Irvine law students will not need to worry much about Biglaw.

98 comments:

  1. Holy shit! We're at a quarter mil in loans just for one degree from an unaccredited law school.

    Someone smarter than me do an amortization chart for this scenario. You go to a TTT undergrad and have 50-100k in student loans. You go to this law school and add another 200-250k. You have a few "normal" emergencies in that 7 year span (car repair, travel to funerals, etc) that you need to put on a credit card. You can't get a good job so you defer for a few years. You have 30 year loans.

    I have to think we are approaching the $1,000,000 mark in terms of total repayment, yes? Isn't 300k amortized at 6.5 percent for 30 years or so close to 600k in repayments after interest if you only make monthy minimums?

    $1,000,000 in debt, literally. Wow!

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  2. Holy shit is right. 6.5% is too kind. Many will need to take out private loans from the greedy cocksuckers at Sallie Mae and AccessGroup. Those loans can be well over 8% interest. I have even seen some people with private loans at 10% or higher. I forget what the limit is on Staffords for graduate school. BUt I imagine this school is well beyond those limits.

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  3. Have you guys ever heard of CLEO Scholars: http://www.cleoscholars.com/
    I heard that it's a program where they give students that they consider "disadvantaged" (not necessarily minority) more time on tests and other advantages. It is sponsored by the ABA (when they're not accrediting more law schools). I know a guy bragging about it.
    Does anyone have any information?

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  4. i think we have a winner for top toilet. Ill be they will be passing out a lot of scholarships to hispanics and Iranians.

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  5. I've heard of them. It looks like a way for ABA to say We got a bunch of yellow, red, brown and black faces into law school. Look how we are expanding opportunities for minorities and crippled kids.

    Everyone here knows that corporate attorneys are typically white men with a few women and minorities sprinkled in. Very few partners are black or brown. Not too many women either. The top attorney positions in govt work go to good ol' boys. And legal aid societies are staffed and run by Jews and militant white lesbians.

    http://blog.cleoscholars.com/index.cfm?month=6&year=2010

    I went to their site and looked up the blog. CHeck out this entry. Some Vietnamese kid states that the lsat seriously kicked his butt. (Intelligent Asians go into business, medicine or other hard science. The dumb ones go to law school.) These kids have their heads far, far up in the clouds. It is not even comical. It is fucking sad that adults have blind faith in the education system. These grown-ups are excited about lectures from washouts.

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  6. Irvine, CA is a very expensive place to live so the COA sounds about right. And not only that but UCI Law will now have to compete against UCLA, USC, Loyola, Pepperdine, Southwestern, Western, Whittier, Chapman, La Verne, UWLA, and all the other TTTT's and T1's in the state.

    Keep them coming Nando. Pretty soon every TTT will have a article about it hahahahahah.

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  7. That image is perfect. And it is classier than the typical pictures used on this site. I made the mistake once of checking this out during lunch break. Anyway, I like that the sign on the tractor says 'KEEP CLEAR'. Those seagulls represent the students. They will be picking through landfills for their survival. The trash pile = the job market. And everyone should stay clear of this shithole.

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  8. @9:30

    One Million dollars of debt is not too far fetched actually.

    I owe 300K and there is absolutely no way I can catch up to it barring a lottery win. And it just keeps growing and growing with every passing year.

    My parents sure as hell aren't going to leave me money either because they don't have any.

    For sure I will be buried in a potters field. I am certain of that now.

    I see that Nando has listed the price of books at 1900 bucks.

    Jesus Christ, if I had 1900 bucks to simply crap away, as these kids are doing on law books, I'd do some x-mas shopping, or better yet, but a plot in a cmetary, or maybe pay in advance for a cremation--worthless indebted piece of of shit life that I am.

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  9. UC-Irvine is trying to emulate the Florida Marlins' formula of success. Much like the Marlins, UC-Irvine is an expansion enterprise in an already saturated expanded landscape of teams (I believe there are 32 MLB teams as opposed to 210 law schools). UC-Irvine is trying to get heavyweight faculty and students with "top" admissions numbers to appear on par with T20 schools. Granted most of the kids that enrolled there could have gone to a Tier 1 school based on their numbers (not necessarily T14). However, there are many differences between managing a baseball team and a law school. First, there is free agency. The Marlins got some nice talent in 1997 via free agency. Do you honestly think YHS law students will transfer to this gamble of a cesspool? Secondly, there is no alumni network. Yes, the dean is well known for his overpriced civ pro book but is that enough? He may have secured some internships for the initial class but how many permanent job offers will that pan out to at graduation? Me thinks this school is a ponzi scheme in the making. For example, the first class is there on a free scholarship. This school is clearly the most expensive law school in the land. Subsequent classes will be paying for the initial classes and I suspect that a modest portion of that money will be used to fund "test drive" programs such as the ones from Duke and SMU. This will create the 100% employed at graduation stat that will make the USNWR committee cream in their underwear.

    I think the initial class contained some sharp students. Although their decision to attend an unaccredited school for free (which is BS once you factor in COA and loss of opportunity cost) may seem sound, it will prove to be a net loss of 3 years of their lives.

    The author of the blog is correct. The last thing California needed was a law school. It went ahead and created UC-Irvine because the university system wants to ride the law school gravy train until the brakes are completely bled. Believe me, the derailment will be catastrophic, but more so for anyone attending this and for the most part any other law school at this time.

    Right now, the SUNY system is full-steam ahead on having a law school at Binghamton. The administrators cite the lack of public law schools, which is a sham when a public law school such as UC-Irvine costs over $50k a year in tuition alone to out of state suckers.

    Kids, you may have mastered the LSAT and obtained a summa cum laude GPA. However, if you are really smart, examine the motives behind the law schools. These institutions are not eleemosynary. These schools are no different than Bernie Madoff. Except, they are protected by law and financed by the Federal Student Loan system.

    Want to know the difference between a purse snatcher and a law school dean? The former gets 5-7 years for stealing an old lady's social security check while the latter gets all these bullshit awards (and an obscenely high salary) for destroying legions of students and leaving them in indentured servitude to Sallie Mae and the other bloodsucking private banks.

    You do the math.

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  10. Plus with this school being unaccredited the kids are screwed for getting a government job for the public service loan forgiveness. There is absolutely no way you can pay back that high of an amount without income based repayment and working in the government for 10 years. Of course this assumes that they took out government loans and not private ones. I know damn well some of these kids think they will take out all of that money and get a government job and be fine. Well, a) California is broke and b) there are so many other schools competing for the scarce government jobs that UC-Irvine is fucked. For the love of God if you want to go to law school and will not consider the advice given here and other places, and can't get into an elite school with a scholarship, then at least go to a cheap state school with low cost of living and where you can obtain residency. Maybe in a less saturated area you MIGHT be able to get a legal job at 35-40k but at least you will not have 300k in loans. UC-Irvine has to take the cake for biggest dung pile - at least Cooley is accredited which really isn't saying much.

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  11. AND...to top it all off...those government jobs are now few and far between. Ever check out USA Jobs, etc. They want BIG TIME experiences for those governmental gigs. Be prepared for LOTSA automated rejection messages.

    This armpit of a school has no social or moral conscience.

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  12. life is tough, get a fucking helmetDecember 12, 2010 at 3:36 PM

    About me:

    Public law school. New. Unaccredited. Located in Orange County, CA. Geared toward producing public interest lawyers. Cost? More than $40,000 for CA residents and more than $50,000 for non residents.

    In search of: idealistic, foolish young men and women who are willing to spend $200K on a law degree from a dirt heap.

    If looking to get fucked for life call me at 949-824-0066.

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  13. There is nothing innovative about UC-Irvine Law School. I mean, UC-Irvine law grads will still have to take the bar prep courses to pass the baby bar or full bar exam. The school relies on the Socratic method of teaching, uses the same plain and prosaic texts as other schools and charges similar, if not, higher tuition than more established toilets. So what does UC-Irvine bring to the table that other California schools don't have? Give up? Nothing. I don't buy that this school takes in smart students. Who the fuck is dumb enough to pay $240K for a law degree from an unaccredited school? UCI law students, that's who. Yeah I know the first class is there on a full ride but do they really expect employers to be impressed or dazed when they see UCI Law School? I bet most will say "Gee I didn't even know UC-Irvine had a law school."

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  14. Bitter, bitter people with nothing better to do?

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  15. The level of ignorance the author of this article and the commenters demonstrate is really remarkable. Most of you seem to ostensibly be concerned with excessive debt and inability to secure employment after graduation. If that's the case, even cursory research would reveal that UCI's expected debt loads and employment prospects would put it easily among the top 8 law schools.

    Moreover, the money that allowed the school to hire strong faculty and offer generous scholarships to the first classes came primarily from business and legal interests in Orange County. They gave money so there would be strong legal talent coming into Orange County. And they want to see their investment pay off, so they're incredibly eager to hire UCI Law grads. This includes firms like Gibson Dunn, O'Melveny, and Irell, where starting salaries are above 150K for new associates.

    There are plenty of law schools worthy of your scorn, but UCI isn't one of them. Do a little more research before you lambaste a school that's doing what's necessary to get its students jobs.

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  16. UCI is the Salma Hayek of Law Schools.

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  17. @6:33PM

    In my experience, people don't give money away for nothing. The folks that donated money to UCI expect a return on their investment. I know the return they expect. Here is the rub: you don't.

    UCI won't break top 20 much less top 8. You can believe in Leiter's report about UCI having the 9th strongest faculty but this is the same report that ranks Chicago (where Leiter teaches) ahead of Yale. The credibility is just not there. Feel free to come back and post UCI's OCI numbers and please post links to GDC's O'Melveny's and Irell's website replete with UCI law grads.

    Thank you for the laugh (re: Orange County clamoring for strong legal talent).

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  18. I have to echo the comment above regarding a lack of research. UCI has to state that they're not yet accredited and are not making representations about being accredited by graduation in case that should not occur. Based on feedback from the legal community though, as well as the ABA site visit team who will shortly be delivering their report, UCI stands out as a top 21st century law school. The school is on track to receive provisional accreditation by this coming August. All schools initially receive provisional accreditation, and once provisionally accredited, graduates of the school receive the same benefits as any graduate from a fully accredited school.

    Regarding debt load: UCI Law is expensive. So's Duke (where a large number of faculty members at UCI came from). So's Chicago Kent (where other faculty members came from). As far as I know, those schools aren't offering any guaranteed scholarship (1/3 or otherwise) for all entering students. Additionally, class sizes remain rather small. The largest class this year had 83 students. The Dean has also made a verbal commitment to provide faculty for any course desired by at least 5 students. I'm not certain that I can name another school that provides this level of access to faculty.

    You're right, though. It's a bit of a gamble as the school won't always be able to provide scholarships for all students. Still, it's likely that three years from now students at this school will be supported by top firms in Orange County. If the prospect of being one of the few qualified local candidates for those $150k jobs isn't what you're looking for, then UCI probably isn't the place for you.

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  19. @7:06PM

    The fact that UCI's current classes are small has to do with the fact that they didn't have money to award 400-600 full scholarships. Once the school starts charging full tuition, expect the class size to go from 83 to 400-600. I guarantee it.

    Do I doubt UCI will be ABA accredited? No. If they could accredit Cooley and Phoenix, UCI will be a shoo-in. Graduating from an ABA approved school in itself does not guarantee a legal job. You obviously drank the Orange County Kool Aid about all the business' interest in investing in UCI. I think it is very naive of the UCI law students to believe their school will be magically transformed into a T14 (sorry Georgetown, your days seem numbered by the UCI powerhouse) instantly upon ABA accreditation. If you believe that, then you might as well put out a stocking this Christmas and expect a free Barbri course coupon.

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  20. Hey 7:06, so you mean 5 students can petition the Dean to offer a course in "Porn Law?" Fuck if only I had been born 10 years later, I would have gone to UCI instead of a T25.

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  21. It's unfortunate that the author didn't choose to do his research. Regarding the scholarships, the school doesn't get the money to fund them out of thin air. The Orange County legal community is largely responsible for providing those scholarships and they do expect a return on their investment. The poster is right, people don't generally give away that kind of money for nothing. The OC legal community gave away that money hoping some of the students from UCI would remain in OC and work for their firms. While we do lack an alumni base, many OC lawyers have committed themselves to seeing UCI succeed. UCI has recruited top faculty and top students. I know of 2Ls with offers to Knobbe Martin and O'Melveney. 1Ls are already receiving interviews for summer externships with highly regarded state court justices and not every 1L has even started to apply for jobs yet. I proudly admit to being a student at UCI and I am so glad I chose UCI over my other options. The amount of support from the faculty and staff is amazing. The student:faculty ratio is probably the lowest in the country and the faculty is very accessible. And the Dean is amazingly open and receptive to student feedback, and that openness trickles down. It's also probably the nicest law school in terms of the personalities of its students, its faculty and its staff. UCI is not for everyone - but for those who decide its for them I am sure they won't regret it unless they would have regretted any law school they went to.

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  22. Dear Kid from 7:23PM:

    I am afraid you have no choice but to stay in Orange County after graduating from UCI. Hardly any reputable employer outside of Orange County has heard of UCI Law School. Almost every dean at any law school has the clout to place a couple of students a plum jobs. The fact that you know a couple of 2Ls that will summer at O'Melveny is hardly impressive. I will give you props for not paying a dime for UCI. However, remember the old adage: "You get what you pay for."

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  23. Geez, if all of the UCI Law grads end up only being able to secure regional employment, that would be unbearable. They're destined to be stuck in beach-covered, sun-filled, affluent Orange County (except for the ones who've already secured prestigious positions in other parts of the country; but we don't talk about them, because that would refute our baseless arguments).

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  24. I go to UCI Law and one thing I can tell you is that I am 1000x happier than the author of this article, who at 28 is unemployed and lives in his parents' basement playing xbox 360 and masturbating feverishly to internet porn.

    By contrast, I have a prestigious job lined up with a federal judge next summer. Furthermore, 2/3 of the 2L class already has job offers for next summer, and a good number of them are working for big firms.

    Don't know if you heard but the word on the street is that the director of Yale Law School's clinical programs just decided to come to UCI Law. Do you think a professor would leave literally the best law school in the world for UCI if UCI were really circling the drain as the author seems to think?

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  25. 7:32 I am a 1L this year and haven't asked many 2Ls about their jobs for the summer. Those are just two that I know of off the top of my head. But there is an article in the Los Angeles Daily Journal that you can access from the UCI website if you wish. The cliff notes is 2/3 of 2Ls have summer jobs. 19 from OCI, 14 with firms and offers received outside of OCI and 9 in public interest. Given government and non-profits do most of their recruiting in the spring that is pretty good. Also, firms and organizations mentioned are Jones Day, O'Melveney, Morrison & Foerster, Sheppard Mullin, Gibson Dunn, Crowell & Moring as well ACLU of So Cal and Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights. And not everyone is working in OC for the summer, nor did they last year.

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  26. It is just so clear to me that this blogger is sad, bitter, and consumed with resentment. Absolutely bathing in bile. I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I truly am. Come by UCI and I will spend some of my loans on a lunch for you from the lunch cart.

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  27. The UCI law students should feel flattered that their school made it to Third Tier Reality. For an unranked school, that is a mighty accomplishment.

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  28. If law schools were cars, I would compare UCI law to a DeLorean. Both are overhyped, overpriced and probably need uranium to propel its speeds to 88mph (in the case of a UCI law grad, a legal career period). DeLoreans are out of production and have been for over 25 years. Will UCI law go the way of the DeLorean or the Dodo bird?

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  29. "...cursory research would reveal that UCI's expected debt loads and employment prospects would put it easily among the top 8 law schools."

    Holy hell, someone just does not understand how this carnival game works, do they? Top 8?!? What, in California? If it was that easy, don't you think someone with massive amounts of money in the coffers would have done what UCI is doing in the last 15 years? Do you really think UCI is better than UCLA? USC? Texas? Wash U? Minnesota? North Carolina? Boston? William and Mary?

    You think offering full-ride scholarships to 80 kids is a big deal? Really? Guess what: virtually every school from 15-100 offers full-ride scholarships to a large chunk of its incoming class in order to boost their numbers, just as UC-Irvine is doing. I know for a fact your local competitor Pepperdine is fairly liberal with scholarships for 165+ LSAT kids. Why on Earth would kids with 165+ routinely turn down full rides at all those other places to go to an unaccredited school with no reputation whatsoever? Are you not aware that there are countless TTT and TTTT schools who offer guaranteed full-ride scholarships to upper-tier prospectives?

    Almost every TTT and TTTT in the country has 40-50 2Ls in a good position for summer employment. Given that most people with 165+ on the LSAT could go to any one of them and do well enough to get and keep a full-ride scholarship, it seems curious that they would consistently go to UC-Irvine once the gimmick wears off.

    Cal-Irvine only accepted 4% of its students. They basically played the game to admit a small class and push their LSAT/GPA scores through the roof in what is quite an impressive illusion. But it's simply not sustainable. At some point, a law school has to expand to 200+ per class and charge tuition to bankroll everyone else, especially a public school in a bankrupt state. When that happens, UC-Irvine's numbers will go through the floor and so will whatever "prestige" you all think UC-Irvine has right now.

    If this model - the roots of which are in no way novel - were in any way, shape, or form sustainable, it would have worked somewhere else by now. Congrats on not paying a dime. It's a huge gamble in that I honestly don't think your degree is going to be worth as much as you think it is in 10 years. But good luck nonetheless.

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  30. The Orange Country legal community wants a return on investment? What are you smoking? What does that even mean?

    Are you saying that the legal community is going to get a cut of the salary any UCI grad earns? No? Are you saying that the UCI grads will work in these firms for free? No? What are you saying here?

    It's a buyer's market for big law firms right now. They can have top students from any law school in the country (including UCLA, stanford, Berkeley). Why would they need to invest in UCI in order to get quality applicants? Your theory just makes no sense.

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  31. @ 8:05

    It is always the students that defend these schools. Kids that have no clue what it is like out there in the real world.

    Kids that have no idea just how impossible and life-destroying 6 figure debt will be.

    Listen to me kid: It is really, incredibly, FUCKING HORRIBLE. Your life will be absolute shit and not worth living if you have taken out massive student loans.

    Not one waking hour will go by when you will not regret the day you ever thought of attending a Law School.

    Not one waking hour will go by when you will not contemplate killing yourself.

    The administrators and faculty are never heard from because they know TTR is telling the truth.

    @8:05-you had better try to hang on to a few of your student loan dollars yourself, because you will need to buy a shotgun with which to blow your brains out after you fianlly realize that you will never be able to discharge your unbelieveably high debtload in bankruptcy.

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  32. Hey, this is 8:05.

    First, I want to make clear that I am not being rhetorical or sarcastic or hostile in any way. I think tone is often lost in forums like this, so, while my first comment was a wee bit snarky, I want you to know that I'm being completely sincere now.

    And I perceive some sincerity in your comment to me. I don't think you were telling me to kill myself. I think you predicting a world of anguish for me, basing that on your own experience. That is, I think you just shared some very serious and very personal feelings with me and I don't want to take that lightly. In fact I want to thank you for your candor and heart. Whatever happens to me, no amount of debt will ever sink my heart so low and it shouldn't yours. Fuck it, if we make bad bets we make bad bets. Let's still enjoy our lives. That's the game, no?

    But I don't think we are all doomed as law students. I understand your frustration. I'm not a kid. I'm 33 years old and the first in my family to attend college let alone law school. It took a lot of work to get here and I have accrued a lot of debt along the way, scholarships notwithstanding. But after several careers in the "real world" sans graduate degree, I'm fucking happy to be here. Thrilled. I am under no illusions that I will coast into a 200K gig at a big firm. In fact, fuck a job like that, I wouldn't want it were it offered to me. But I do have faith that I'll find something if I work hard and remain honest. At the very least I can find job that engages me and allows me some autonomy. There are still opportunities out there. UCI has done an amazing job of helping me find them thus far. It's a good school, a special place. Sounds corny, but from the inside it is all that the hype promised it to be. Hard to believe, I know, but it's true.

    I know that there are tons of shite law schools dumping graduates into disillusionment and unemployment. But I'm not here expecting to be delivered into a cush job and to pay off my loans with in no time mega salary. But I've done the math and there are countless ways to make it work. I'm sure you can come to the same conclusion.

    As for UCI being a third tier law school, I can't trust that you've done your research. First, I agree that the tuition is way too fucking high for a public U. Tragic. But that's the state of hte UC system this days. Other than that your vitriol strikes me as wholly unfounded. Check out the faculty there. Forget leiter's blog, look at their profiles and research the kind of people they are. Look at the curriculum and compare it to other law schools. Check out the clinic opportunities they have up already. Look into their capstone projects. It's not disneyland or anything, but compared to the other law schools it's pretty amazing.

    I can't understand why you're attacking UCI. Why do you hate it so much?

    Any how, I hope you're wrong: I turned down comparable offers to T10 schools and haven't looked back. Naive maybe, but happy. Now back to studying, I have a crim final in two days....

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  33. There is a legal community in Orange County? haha! Yea right, like 5 big firms and a bunch of smaller satellite offices with 10-15 attorneys. The UCI law students would be better off walking across the campus and enrolling in one of the UCI undergraduate engineering or computer science programs. Now there is a market for that in OC and UCI is top ranked in those areas.

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  34. it's shocking that you have such a negative view of our school, considering the obviously high opinion you have of law school in general. And I guess the fact that Dean Chemerinsky is one of the most often quoted legal minds in the country, and has one of the top 10 non-fiction books selling right now, IS completely irrelevant to most legal professionals that don't live in Orange County. And you're right, I'm sure we'll have classes of 600 at any time, considering our facilities are built for classes no bigger than 85 and there's been a firm commitment made to maintaining a close knit community. I'm dropping out immediately, thanks for letting me know!!!

    Get a job, jackass.

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  35. TO the poor naive soul from 12:00AM:

    In the legal "profession," there is no such thing as a firm committment. You will learn that soon enough. And thanks for the info on Dean Chemerinsky. I am sure the next time I argue a constitutional issue (which hell has a better chance of freezing), I will impress the judge with Chemerinksy's take on the 2nd Amendment.

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  36. @12:00

    FYI, only about 300 thousand copies sold can make for a NY Times bestselling book.

    And nowadays, EVERYBODY publishes a Fucking book. So your Chemical Dean or whatever the fuck his name is, is merely banging out House Organ masterpieces.

    Here is a little clip I hope you will remember when you will have to eat your words someday:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdKthdqSV-4


    Just substitute the name of your law school for the name 'Damien".

    But we do it all for the Law Schools don't we?

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  37. sorry, did you not get in?

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  38. @ 12:16 (the first one) - how many copies did your book sell?

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  39. you clearly hate "the game", is it quite so necessary to hate the public-interest oriented, well-intentioned "player" as well? might I suggest yoga? a hobby? xanax? some perspective? Just a thought. Sorry you hate UCI. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

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  40. hehe.

    Seriously though there's little doubt that UCI will vault itself past Loyola.

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  41. I hope UCI remains unaccredited. That way all those California surfer dudes stay put instead of contaminating the rest of the country with all the bad elements that come out of CA.

    /s/ East Coast Attorney

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  42. http://www.jdjournal.com/2010/03/25/jobs-for-everyone-at-uc-irvine-law-school/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JdJournal+%28JD+Journal%29&utm_content=Netvibes

    “The Recorder reports nearly 30 students have jobs with nonprofits and 17 students will be employed by judges, including 11 at the federal level. The remainder will join law firms and prosecutors’ offices.”

    This pertains to the commode’s first entering class. Out of 60 students, nearly half were working for non-profits while 17 others were interning or clerking for judges. About ¾ of the class worked in these two areas over the summer. Considering that the rest were in prosecutors’ offices and law firms, it seems safe to say that 80%-90% of this first class was NOT working for law firms.

    @happyucilawstudent,

    I don’t play video games, and I have not lived with my parents since age 18. I have also been married for 5+ years. I even own a home, moron. I have also been employed at the same company for about one and a half years. I managed to find a job within two months of graduating from law school. My school also happens to be accredited by the ABA. I may be bitter, but at least I get my facts straight BEFORE spouting off. Develop some credibility and then feel free to come back to this site.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/03/25/life-is-good-at-uci-law-but-how-long-will-it-last/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wsj%2Flaw%2Ffeed+%28WSJ.com%3A+Law+Blog%29&utm_content=Netvibes

    “Can it last? It’s possible. But continuing success won’t come without some challenges. For starters, the free-tuition deal sticks with the first class all the way through their three years, but ends with the second class, which starts in the fall. So it wouldn’t be surprising to see the caliber of the students drop a little for the next class, which could drive employment rates down.

    Furthermore, while public interest jobs can be tough to get, summer internships are considerably easier to land when 1) you don’t have to worry about tuition for the next couple of years and 2) your law school is giving you cash stipends so you can make ends meet.”

    UCI is playing a card game. It hopes to dupe those “legal scholars” and legal practitioners who rate a school’s reputation. UCI Law thinks it can throw money at kids with high LSAT/UGPA scores for a few years, and once the school is accredited, judges, lawyers, and law school faculty members will be so overwhelmed, they will have no choice but to place this school in the top 20-30 law schools. This article correctly notes that the caliber of entering law students will go down as the big scholarship offers dry up.

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  43. Here is the methodology employed by US News, UCI Law guinea pigs.

    http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-graduate-schools/2008/03/26/law-methodology.html

    Please explain to us how a school with no history will somehow crack the top 20 law schools. For instance, how will lawyers and judges be able to rank UCI graduates?!?! Didn’t think of that before you opened your mouth, did you, UCI student?! It takes DECADES for a school to develop a reputation. Perhaps this school can land in the top 100 law schools, in the next 15-20 years. But the school will no attract top students once the big scholarship offers go away.

    Law is all about prestige, kid.

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1406822

    On page 28 of this law review article:

    “By basing the rankings on factors that already support a school’s elite status (LSAT scores, career placement, reputation), schools who have long held elite status (e.g. Harvard, Yale, University of Pennsylvania, University of Chicago, Stanford) are guaranteed to appear within the top of this ranking system. Indeed, the list of top law schools that appear every year in the U.S. News and World Report do not differ, in great part, from those schools that were considered elite in the 1920s.”

    UCLA and USC law grads have worked in Southern California law firms for several decades. These schools have earned a reputation based on the caliber of lawyers they have produced – over an extended period of time. (By the way, I have a friend who graduated from UCLA Law in 2009. He now teaches grade school.) Cal-Irvine Sewer of Law is SADLY MISTAKEN if it believes that it can jump straight to the top 20 – or top 8! – law schools in the nation.

    Short of Princeton opening a law school, I do not see any new law school cracking the top 20 in a short period of time.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/rankings/page+4

    I could realistically see UC Irvine SOL performing about as well as UNLV’s law school. That school has been around since 1997, and has managed to land in the top 75 law schools. It also landed in the third tier recently, but is now sitting at 78th best, most fantastic law school in the United States. That is not saying much. In the final analysis, UCI simply entered into the legendarily FLOODED California lawyer job market.

    http://randazza.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/california-bar-president-pwns-law-schools-in-lengthy-screed/

    Then-president of the California Bar Howard B. Miller went off on the bleak job prospects for recent graduating classes. Think about this, lemming: California already has 20 ABA-accredited law schools and 44 law schools overall.

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  44. I feel terrible for the non-trad 33 year-old UCI law student. You sound like someone who had no exposure to how the law game works. Turning down a T10 is very common. I turned down three T14 schools to attend an established T25 that offered me a free ride plus a living stipend for the full three years some 20 years ago. The difference here is that my school was accredited and had a national reputation, which is lacking at UCI. Please continue your perpetual intoxication from all that UCI kool-aid you are drinking.

    If you fell for the UCI law school gimmick, you won't make it far as an attorney. Enjoy the full ride to nowhere. As for your esteemed dean, I recall he was once considered for the liberally crazed 9th circuit court of appeals. He would have fit it in perfectly with the other judicial misfits of that bench. I wonder why his name was nixed.

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  45. Three Things:
    1) It is possible for this school to get Calif Bar Accreditation (now baby bar less.) It's easier by far compared to ABA accreditation. So, UCI's first classes can practice at least in Calif. This is a good deal considering class one get full scholarships regardless.

    2) All state schools get ABA accreditation (period.) Why? The ABA is dealing with a deep pocket$ when it takes on a big state school. Smaller private schools the ABA site committee could f*ck around with. The site committee could nit-pick hoping the school will run out of time and funds.

    3) Surprisingly, most large state schools have lobbyists in Washington. The U of Calif definitely has a good one. The more the ABA stalls the more pressure gets put on them.

    When I was young, I imagined the ABA as tough gang. Now that I am a lawyer; I see the truth. The ABA is no more than a pliable school yard bully. They pick fights only with people they know they can hurt. They become pliable and passive under any real diversity or challenge.

    theyuppieattorney.blogspot.com

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  46. UCI law students, you have every right to be mad at the author of this blog. You are going to a school with incredible faculty whose hospitality and attention rivals that of any premium Hotel. However, this little bubble that you are in will soon pop. Granted, many of you have been getting great job offers from some of the most prestigious law firms in the Orange county area. Yet, what many of you do not realize is how harsh and soul crushing the practice of law in the country is. Go to the Los Angeles Superior court if you have time. Pick any department really, it is all the same. Look at the attorneys walking through those doors. Whether they are wearing a 2,000 or 200 dollar suit, they all are truly battered souls. Don't believe me? I used to be one of those. I got smart and now develop commercial real estate (Not too hot now either). I still make more though than I ever did litigating, and I am far more content as well. Watch "Michael Clayton". That will be you kids in twenty years if you continue down the path you have started.

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  47. I'm the non-trad. Contrary to your assumptions I have plenty of experience in legal work. And my experience has demonstrated that UCI does in fact have a national rep. I was last working at a national ACLU office in New York City. The litigation director there reviewed my offer and advised me to take it, not least because Chemerinsky is at the helm. Prior to that, the chairman of litigation at one of the world's largest law firms forwarded me an article about UCI Law and suggested I apply. I'll not be coming back here for more bitching and wining. Don't hate and don't kill yourself. A life of law is hard but can be good so long as you're not expecting free easy rides.

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  48. Chem was nixed from nomination for the 9th because he has shared his opinion widely in the press and in print. As you should know, that now makes a candidate unconfirmable. As for your generalization about the 9th circuit--not sure what your point is. The 9th is overturned more than other circuits because it hears way more cases than other circuits. The number of cases overturned is commensurate with other circuits was adjusted for case load. Ideologically it is not un-like the rest of the country.

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  49. Really 10:42AM?

    I once had a federal judge tell me that the trial court's opinions from the SDNY carry more persuasive judicial authority than from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. In fact, this particular judge told me that any brief citing to a 9th Circuit case automatically lost points.

    But thanks for explaining why the 9th Circuit gets routinely overturned. Those poor 9th Circuit judges are so overworked with so many cases, they get no breaks to peruse the internet for porn.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kozinski12-2008jun12,0,6220192.story

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  50. Are you upset because the blog author is focusing on your school? Well, I was pissed at first when nando went after my school back in June. I graduated in '07. I was bored and googled the name of my school. I found this site and got upset. I was mad for about a whole week. Then after thinking about things (after swearing I'd stab nando with a shard of glass if I ever saw him) I realized he was right. Most of my classmates were fucked. I'm only partly fucked but that could awlays change. Lots of my friends from LS took out $100K in loans and now work jobs they had before going to law school. Whether agree with his conclusions or not, you should recognize he backs up his side with the facts. Good luck and I hope the graduates do well for themselves. I for one certainly don't see how it can possibly be a top 20 school.

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  51. Not pissed, just perplexed as to his motives. And concerned for him. Conservatives hate the 9th fella, nothing new.

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  52. from the fact that a single judge posted porn to his site we should infer and generalize what, exactly?

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  53. UCI LS is a huge gamble that will fail. I feel bad that the kids that enrolled there got suckered with the pipe dream hoopla about the school becoming an instant T20 upon accreditation. This will not happen. I predict the school will break into the third tier and if it survives for 10 years, it may crack the top 100.

    The school is using its current crop of students to look good on the admissions stats. In return, the initial class obtained a full ride for 3 years. The second class (after the inaugural class) received 50% scholarships. The third class (the Class of 2014) will receive 33% scholarships. See the trend? The money is running out. What will the Class of 2105 be offered? A 16.6% scholarship? Dean Chemerinksy may be the best fundraiser in the world but even he cannot tap the OC legal community forever to sustain his pipe dream.

    UCI was created with public interest as an emphasis. How many kids will be able to service their student loans at the outrageous tuition prices by making the common $40-50K per year public interest jobs? Right now the first class is sheltered from the real world that awaits them. I would like to see that bright eyed bushy tail attitude after they have been defecated into the large overflowing dungpile called the California Bar.

    As for UCI having a national reputation, yes the engineering program is good but you don't have any UCI engineering grads studying patent law at UCI LS do you? The law school has no credibility. Yes it does boast a decent faculty, that traded in the fierce winters of the east coast and midwest for the warm balmy weather of California. I just can't see the Regents giving these profs life tenure with lucrative benefits. Not when the state is on the verge of Chapter 9 bankruptcy.

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  54. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/opinion/14fri3.html?_r=1

    “A law school would be mighty fortunate to have Erwin Chemerinsky, a distinguished Duke Law School professor, as its dean. The University of California, Irvine, realized this when it asked him to head up its new law school. This week, however, it rescinded the offer, evidently because of his political views. It’s a disgraceful decision. The University of California system should admit its mistake and, with apologies, extend the offer again.”

    The school thought so highly of Erwin Chemerinsky that they decided to rescind the offer. The pussies at UC Irvine apparently decided to cave in to pressure from Orange County Republicans. So much for “academic freedom,” I guess. After being lambasted from other “scholars,” UC Irvine Chancellor Michael V. Drake decided to hire Chemerinsky as dean of the new law school. Drake then had the temerity to spin this as a win for “intellectual freedom.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_V._Drake

    As you can see, Drake bears a striking resemblance to the world’s ugliest dog for 2009. At least, Pabst the Boxer has a pair of nuts.

    http://www.petsugar.com/Pabst-2009-Worlds-Ugliest-Dog-3380947

    To the knee-jerk law school defenders,

    I understand that hearing reality is causing you some pain. Explain to us, in excruciating detail, HOW this law school will become a top 20 – or top eight – law school. You and the law school made this extraordinary claim. Now, you need to back it up, i.e. show us how the school will accomplish this goal.

    I am glad that the first class received full-tuition scholarships. That slightly eases the pain of graduating from a toilet. I received a full-tuition scholarship to attend law school, as well. With my wife working full-time - and living frugally – I accumulated another $37K in student loans. I lived in affordable Des Moines, Iowa.

    Also, I wouldn’t wet my pants over the “quality of faculty.” Remember, these are bright academics who could not hack it in a real job. They get paid serious money to write obscure law review articles. At my TTT, we had several “professors” who went to Duke, Harvard and other elite law schools. Most TTTs and TTTTs can say the same thing.

    My motives are that I do not want to see more people needlessly graduate with outrageous NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – with little to no chance of paying their loans off and having a decent life. The law schools certainly don’t give a damn about the outcomes of their students. I am not the one charging $50K per year in tuition, and telling students that this is a lucrative “profession.” I guess that makes me a real villain.

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  55. "A life of law is hard but can be good so long as you're not expecting free easy rides."

    No one here ever expected a free, easy ride.

    Nando, this post sure did a good job of throwing up the bat-signal for all the UCI defenders. Some of the comments here are priceless.

    I'm still wanting to know why anyone would go to unaccredited, unranked, unheralded UCI for a guaranteed 1/3 tuition for 3 years if the student has a choice between that and a renewable full-ride from an established top 100 school.

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  56. Kids, no one on the outside really cares about faculty caliber. If they do, the are outliers and curiosities. The educational bordello I attended, a/k/a Wayne State University Law Screwl, bet the house on hiring nothing but a bunch of Ivy Leaguers for faculty, only to sink miserably deep into the sordid Third Tier of American Law Schools. It was once a second tier school. I admit I was a shitty student, landing ass-deep in the bottom of my class.

    [Translation: I work in another field entirely as a result}.

    Beware of flirting with a non-elite law "schools." You MAY get a job, for a while that is, until the next class graduates. Never forget the schools continue to pump out graduates at a furious rate, so the pressure from below never ends. Good luck in this horribly overcrowded line of work.

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  57. December 13, 2010 2:02 PM

    I never understood the "free, easy ride" comment either. Usually comes from someone who works for their uncle anyway. Think I will nickname 10:34 "Easy Rider." To the contrary, all the folks I ever knew, myself included, busted their ass. In a horrendously crowded field, you gotta have a break or two, I firmly believe. This, in addition to the required hard work.

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  58. Nando says:

    "The law schools certainly don’t give a damn about the outcomes of their students."

    That sums it all up.

    They have all been riding high and milking the student loan easy money gravy train teat for far too long.

    But, in case they are even remotely interested in what working life is like after LAw School--at least for some--I wanted to share this:

    I used to work with a 36 year old painter guy, who drank a lot of beer every night. Tons of it.

    But, that made no difference, for he always showed up for work on time every morning.

    Early in the morning, he would always buy a huge roast beef deli hero, and eat the entire thing--as a sort of Breakfast--every time we took our 10:00 coffee break. We're talking a pound or two of meat and bread at least.

    The boss would always chastize him and protest as he gulped down the big hero and a 20 ounce coffee.

    And, like clockwork, he would have to take a huge dump about 20 minutes later, and he would laugh hysterically every time he came out of the bathroom after doing so.

    I mean a really foul event that stunk up the entire house.

    Listen you young law school kids, you have never experienced something like that, and it is my hope during this Holiday Season, that you never will, because I really do wish that there will be peace and goodwill among all man and womankind.

    But, to return to the story, it didn't matter if it was a million dollar house, or a 5 million, or 20 million dollar house that he took the dump in.

    And, after every such "episode" I would always plead with the boss to fire him. Purely for the reason that he couldn't control his bowels.

    The boss never fired him though, because he was the fastest production painter, bar none, with a brush and roller, that he had ever seen.

    And I have to admit. He was.

    The best painter I've ever seen and had the pleasure to work alongside of, except between coffee break and lunch.

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  59. I think I have figured it out by now.

    Student Loan Debt has, and always will cut deeply into the structure of the American Family. Break all familys apart, and turn everyone affected in the family by the monstrosity of student loans into complete insane and wild sub-human animals.

    The only way out is for many, many people to die.

    The co-signers, many of them elderly, will die within the next decade.

    The borrowers with no future will have to die by their own hands.

    Sweet, sweet death may bring solace to the horror of student loan debt and I pray to God for that.

    May God have mercy on my pitiful and indebted piece of shit garbage soul by now.

    I cannot walk the streets of the country I used to call America without complete shame after graduation with my jd disgrace.

    The alternative is to face a life of begging in the streets.

    Dear God, what has happened to the USA?

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  60. The closest a UCI law student will get to graduating from a Top 8 school from California is if they transferred to Stanford or Boalt Hall. Would Boalt Hall or Stanford accept transfers from an unaccredited school?

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  61. I read the following job posting for a Federal "Special" AUSA in Denver, Colorado. Do you think a UCI law grad is eligible for this job? It would appear they will take any ole JD holder but look at the compensation. It is a 12 month position with a whopping $0K to start. But hey, you will gain experience you can feed your empty tummy and your alma mater can count you as employed at graduation. win/win

    http://www.shitlawjobs.com/2010/12/federal-attorney-job-in-denver.html

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  62. whale shit > uc irvine law schoolDecember 13, 2010 at 6:39 PM

    Student loan debt serves a big purpose. It keeps highly educated people dependent on the system. These workers will experience worker anxiety their entire lives. Thus, they will be less likely to go starting trouble in the workforce (e.g. trying to start up a union, making a fuss over not getting that well deserved raise, stageing protests, contacting the media, complaining about the increase in their health insurance with no fucking increase in benefits).

    Student debt also kills people's drive to be independent. Those that have high debt loads will not be able to start their own businesses. Banks will not give out such loans to some doofus with a TTT degree and $134,000 in student loans. This debt is not dischargeable in bankruptcy p[roceedings.

    Do you fucking get it yet? Student loans create a compliant obedient workforce. You can bet these neutered workers will pass the lesson on to their children. Gone are the days when a very productive worker could tell his boss to shove off. You do that today and you're fucked. News also travels fast. You get a bad mark on your file, and you can be blacklisted from entire industries.

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  63. Pardon me but while Dean Chemerinsky teaches you kids about the arcane meanings of International Shoe and the Carolene footnote, I interupt this post to give you a reading assignment that will enhance your understanding of the law, particularly 11 U.S.C. 523(a)(8). Tomorrow, I want you to be prepared to discuss the following case:

    http://www.moranlaw.net/student_loan_brunner.htm

    I assure you that this case will be germane to your futures, moreso than the Carolene footnote.

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  64. All the UCI law students running around bashing all the anti law school bloggers need a reality check.


    Remember Chapman University in Orange county? They had their law school open and PROMISED GRADUATES that they would get FULL ABA accreditation and then when they graduated they failed to get accredited by the ABA!

    There was a huge lawsuit and students got their money back that was promised by the school.


    UCI is hilarious. Everyone here in OC knows its a place for all the UC Berkeley, UCLA and UCSD rejects.

    The OC legal market is already saturated with Western State, Chapman and Whittier law. The last thing this county needs is another law school!

    Don't make fun of unemployed law school graduates in this horrible economy, at least they went to an ABA accredited law school, and not some NON ABA approved program !

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  65. The UCI kids won't be able to file a lawsuit similar to Chapman's initial grads because in the end, UCI's initial class paid nothing. They have to prove damages. Ok, 3 years of your life. They still have to prove opportunity costs, quantum meruit, etc. I am sure Chemerinsky had these kids sign a waiver stating that ABA accreditation was not impliedly or expressly guaranteed. If the ABA delays the accreditation process, this school is DOA. As various commenters have posted, UCI is running out of funds. Once this happens, the quality faculty leaves and the ability to attract quality students under the lure of scholarship money diminishes. There may be bar passage problems, inadequate deficiencies that will prevent the ABA from fully accrediting this school. These kids better get on the phones and call the OC's land barrons for donations.

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  66. Wow interesting comments. I agree with those who go to the school defending the school. Just makes sense since they are beating on the schools success. Personally I would not have picked this school as I wanted ABA guaranteed approval. I do disagree with the doom and gloom scenarios though--going to law is a crapshoot yes, but some of us do end up with law careers and do see the end of the student loan debt trap around the corner. A poster mentioned contemplating suicide over the debt. At one point most of us thought the same thing, but in the end its just debt there is a lot of life to live, and if things really get desperate there is always another country to go to and escape the misery.

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  67. As someone mentioned already, Southern California's climate attracted lots of professors from the eastern seaboard to this shit pile of a law college. The teachers and the dean get paid no matter what happens to the school's bid for accreditation. They get paid if the graduates fail to land decent employment. If the school runs out of funds these profs can go somewhere else. I mean, shit, they can wait for Inn-N-Out Burger to open a law school. California is littered with the corpses of stillborn lawyers and struggling solos. The state has too many law schools. No need for another TTT. UCI will never be on par with USC, UCLA, Berkeley, Stanford or even Hastings or Pepperdine. Face it. You kids got juped by some smooth talkin' snakes. Those who have been through this game know what they are talking about. You don't.

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  68. Nando, UCI law is structured to game the US News. I'm sure we all heard of some of the bad law schools try to game the system, but UCI is taking the cake.

    First, UCI is essentially bribing the inaugural entering class with full scholarships hence the good GPA/LSAT score ratio and low acceptance rate.

    Second, their class size is low (for now) to maintain a high student expenditure ratio and a low faculty/student ratio - which are all critical factors for a high USNWR ranking.

    Third, the low student numbers will essentially guarantee the students a job in whatever field they seek. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the powers the be at UCI law secured deals with feeder appellate court judges, biglaw and competitive government and public interest firms for a guaranteed one year stint for their graduating students for a few years.

    Finally, add all of the above together. I think UCI law is engaging in a heavy PR campaign to the law school and legal community in an effort to get law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chair of faculty appointments and recently tenured faculty members to give UCI law a top rating on the USNWR peer assessment review. Ditto with legal professionals.

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  69. 8:18 continued

    In all fairness, at least UCI is doing it right - limiting admissions, minimizing debt and securing jobs for graduating students. IMO, if UCI can continue this (at least on a high level) for all of their students, then I do not have a problem with UCI.

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  70. How will judges and lawyers be able to accurately rate UCI? Surely those working in the law will need some basis for giving a high score. Think about it. How can UCI score higher than Vanderbilt or UCLA on the lawyer and judge assessment? The peer assessment of academics accounts for 25% of the overall score. Lawyers and judges account for 15%.

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  71. UCI's story is one we have all seen before. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Victor Frankenstein, in a quest to improve the human condition and one up his colleagues, created a modern prometheus. This creation became a monster that killed Victor in the end.

    UCI Law is an amalgamation of "superstar" stats designed to create the perfect law school, or so the administrators of that school have told their students. The endeavor to create an artificial "perfect" law school will claim casualties. The inaugural class will have minimal debt but a worthless JD from a non-accredited institution. The subsequent classes will bear more of the cost and in the end, much like Frankenstein killed his creator, the school will slay many legal careers. A pity too since most of the UCI students could have attended an accredited tier 1 or 2 school on a scholarship. Alas there is the baby bar and California really doesn't care about ABA accreditation to sit for its bar exam.

    In sum, UCI is a huge gamble. I am not so sure many law firms would be willing to hire associates that are loose with the game of chances. We are, as established attorneys, risk averse after all.

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  72. I have never heard of this school before. Please name one judge that graduated from this school. At the very least, name a famous attorney that graduated from this school. Please name an appellate court case that cited an Irvine Law Review article. If none of my queries cannot be answered, then why should I even read a resume from an Irvine Law School student or grad?

    NYC Hiring Partner

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  73. Anyone who turned down T14 schools to attend this piece of shit ought to have their head examined. The school is unaccredited. It should gain approval. Regardless, this is what UCI grads will be doing in a few years.

    http://mba-underground.686460.n3.nabble.com/What-your-College-Degree-is-Worth-Now-in-2010-and-Into-the-Future-td2080621.html

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  74. http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2010/10/uc-irvine-continues-toward-market-pricing.html

    “It will be interesting to see what moment UCI picks to charge some students full freight. As it is, private schools (think Loyola and San Diego, to say nothing of Emory and Washington & Lee), non-California publics, and perhaps even a UC Davis can beat the effective tuition of UCI for particularly desirable students. Once some number of the class is required to write checks for $40-50K, UCI may discover that price is its enemy, rather than its friend.”

    Why attend UC Irvine Sewer of Law for $40K-$50K when you can go to Stanford for that amount, if you can get admitted there?

    http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/

    As you can see, Stanford Law School charges its students $44,880 for the 2010-2011 school year. The school is consistently ranked among the top 3 law schools in the country.

    https://www.law.berkeley.edu/alumni/gift/tuition.html

    Look at how tuition shot up at Cal-Berkeley School of Law. In 1911, tuition was free for California residents – and $20 for out-of-state students. In 1981, annual tuition for in-state students stood at $836.50. For non-California residents, this amount was $3,236.50. In 2007, California residents who attended this school paid $26,897 in tuition, whereas out-of-state students were charged $39,142 annually.

    For $ome rea$on, the Regents/cockroaches feel that they can charge $40K for in-state residents out of the gate – for an unaccredited law school located in the OVER-SATURATED Southern California legal market!!

    http://www.law.berkeley.edu/47.htm

    California residents are charged $44,245 for the 2010-2011 academic year, while non-residents are billed $52,245.

    By the way, UCI guinea pigs, even students from top schools are finding it very difficult to find meaningful employment. In the new American economy, going to Berkeley or Stanford – and paying full sticker – is a bad idea. Taking on large amounts of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – to attend a toilet such as UC Irvine School of Law – is foolish.

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  75. This is Professor Owen Moore. Please do not confuse my name with your future fate in which you will be owing more than your miserable life is worth for financing a TTT law degree with non-dischargeable student loans.

    A little background information about me. I am the Oliver Wendell Holmes Professor of Law and Robert Bork Scholar at the newly established Commodore's Commode School of Law. We are not ABA accredited but we are in the process of securing provisional accreditation. We are currently seeking stellar applicants (168LSAT/3.8 GPA or better)so that we can boost our stats and smell like a bed of roses to the USNWR. We are also seeking donations from lawyers to fund our little enterprise. With your financial endowments, we will attract top notch faculty that will catapult us into the T14 upon accreditation. In exchange for your contribution, your spawn will be admitted to our school free of charge. This is not a bad deal considering most of your offspring will not be able to get into other traditional T14 schools. In lieu of financial committments, Dean Commodore is willing to accept one year employment opportunities for our first crop of graduates. This will help us all in that we will juke our numbers to match Duke's 100% employed at graduation rate.

    Okay, I hope you kids read the assignment from December 13, 2010 at 7:31PM. Can anyone of you tell me which of the following did Ms. Brunner need to do in order to demonstrate undue hardship to discharge her student loans:

    A) Amputate her right arm (assume she is ambidextrous);
    B) Smoke enough crack to cause permanent brain damage;
    C)Killself, in which she would have earned a posthumous discharge; or,
    D) Enrolled in IBR for 10 years while living in meager conditions and then re-file for bankruptcy and apply for a hardship discharge.

    I will be curving the grade for this question. If 10 of you answered correctly, I will employ an arbitrary measure to enforce the grading curve. Good luck.

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  76. Looks like the UCI kids couldn't handle the truth. This site and its brutal take on the industry tends to make law students cry. Grab a Kleenex.

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  77. Yep, UCI will absolutely "vault" past Loyola. No doubt about it. Five years from now all 300 of UCI grads will surely overshadow the 12,000+ Loyola grads.

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  78. @5:06 "Student debt also kills people's drive to be independent. Those that have high debt loads will not be able to start their own businesses. Banks will not give out such loans to some doofus with a TTT degree and $134,000 in student loans."

    I guess I'm a "doofus" because I fell for the scam and attended a rising TTT, although my debt load is now less than $134,000. Nevertheless, I agree with your points. Student loans lead to an obedient workforce. I'm looking forward to the day in the not too distant future when I can tell my boss and all the other jerks, e.g., pompous partners, I've dealt with to go eat shit.

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  79. C- in Torts today...3 more grades to come. My cumulative thus far is 1.5 (C- in Civ Pro).
    -Mike @St. Thomas in Miami. Ugh.

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  80. Mike, I left you my contact info on another thread. How much debt will you have if you drop out after first semester? What would your total debt be, if you stay on for three years? Also, do you want to practice law? Have you worked for attorneys before?

    Also, how did you manage to receive two grades so far? Grades typically take about a month to be entered. "Law professors" wait to assign final grades, until after they have employed their idiotic forced curve. In fact, some "professors" wait until the first or second week of next semester to submit grades. Plus, doesn't a C- correlate with a 1.7 GPA?

    As upset as you may be now, you will MUCH more disillusioned and pissed if you accumulate $100K+ in student loans - with little to no chance of repaying them. If your family, friends or loved ones call you a “quitter,” remember that YOU will be the one stuck repaying massive amounts of loans. Also, it is much easier to explain an employment gap of a few months than one of three years. You can also tell employers that you wanted to pursue a “legal education.” However, once you experienced it, you then determined that it would not be worth the cost. Good luck, Mike.

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  81. they pass out grades at Aquinas written on free games of bowling cards as you walk out after each exam.

    Atleast at my school, they gave us coupons for free carts at golf courses when they mailed us our grades with the bill for the next semester.

    Those school administrators who are too scared or incompetant to ever practice law are laughing all the way to the bank.

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  82. which is why the incompent fucks are so intent on keeping the wool over the students eyes.

    They can write law review articles on the origins of parol evidence. They can teach out of the teachers manual and check their email all day long. But these social retards could not argue in open court if their tiny, little dicks were on the line.

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  83. Nando, I know you profiled Syracuse Sewer of Law a couple of months ago but I thought I would share this story with you:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/blog-satirizes-law-school-life-but-syracuse-u-officials-arent-laughing/28689?sid=wc&utm_source=wc&utm_medium=en

    Apparently, a law student/blogger got under the skin of the Sewer's School of Law's administrators and they are trying to strong arm the kid into signing a "gag order" or face the wrath of the faculty prosecutor for violating the student code of ethics. What a fucking joke. I hope $yracu$e gets plenty of national exposure over this story. Imagine that. A law school that teaches first amendment constitutional law but wants to inhibit its application to the students. And although $yracu$e is a private school and may not be bound by the first amendment, I say it is by virtue of accepting all that federal and state aid, not to mention all those billions they have acquired through the federal guaranteed loan system.

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  84. you fukers can't even spell

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  85. The only thing this sewer has going for it is that is is part of the UC system. Once accredited, it will probably rise to the level of UC Hastings, or maybe UC Davis.

    But even UC law schools are a rip-off now. There is no way in-state tuition should top 40K per year. That is fucking insane. Outright highway robbery.

    Just for contrast, when I attended UCLA (Class of 2003) tuition was less than 13K a year! The tuition increases started in my final year--I think for 3L it was around 20K. We screamed bloody murder. Ended up going to a class action and the UC system had to pay a large settlement. The lawyers, obviously, got most of it.

    Bottom line: a 1/3 scholarship at this dump is still not worth the certain six-figure debt it will cost to get the sheepskin. If you really want to get screwed that bad, use the money to buy condoms, grab the latest copy of LA Weekly, find the personals, and go a hooker splurge. You'll get far more 'bang' for the buck.

    -Diplolaw

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  86. This is a note for all prospective UCI Law applicants. Do not be fooled by the player haters above. The negative comments likely come from insecure and snarky Whittier/Chapman/Loyola students who deep down are afraid of losing job opportunities to UCI grads. They have reason to be worried, as UCI is a superior law school in just about every way.

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  87. Thanks for chiming in and defending this putrid piece of shit law school, Dean Chemerinsky. Don't lose any sleep over the fact that many UC Irvine JDs will be unemployed and servicing $150K debt loads.

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  88. Having seen you referenced in the NYTimes, I would love to chat with you folks for thoughts you may wish to share with me in my upcoming book (www.WrittenOffAmerica.com) and the chapter which I am devoting to the in debt/indentured student.

    Connect me as well on LinkedIn at:

    http://www.linkedin.com/in/jerryashton

    http://www.twitter.com/writtenoffusa

    Jerry

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  89. Who would spend time out of their lives to disparage an institute of higher learning? What have you accomplished other than appearing insecure? As of simply not attending weren't enough. I went to USC and paid a large amount that was worth every penny. I see UCI as only another opportunity for people to educate themselves and practice law, under the guidance of a prolific scholar and the University of California system. They have already proven themselves as quite capable, with higher median numbers than your alma mater, a 4% acceptance rate, top faculty, and perhaps best of all the fact that they are bulletproof towards this biased and self-serving waste of time.

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  90. To the apologist cockroach who posted on April 21, 2011 at 4:29 pm,

    I am simply informing about the shrinking job market, bitch. Why do YOU have a problem with that?!?!

    http://www.tnr.com/article/87251/law-school-employment-harvard-yale-georgetown?page=0,0

    Check out this article from University of Colorado "law professor" Paul Campos:

    "This month, thousands of ambitious young people are asking themselves the same question: Does it make sense to invest $100,000 to $250,000, and the next three years of my life, to become officially qualified to work as a lawyer? For most people considering law school, this question is hardly an easy one. Law schools, however, make it much harder than it needs to be by publishing misleading data about their employment statistics. Many law schools all but explicitly promise that, within a few months of graduation, practically all their graduates will obtain jobs as lawyers, by trumpeting employment figures of 95 percent, 97 percent, and even 99.8 percent. The truth is that less than half will."

    How does it feel to have Campos's balls on your chin, you drooling idiot?!?!

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html

    From Brian Tamanaha, "law professor" at 18th ranked Washington University in St. Louis, back on June 13, 2010:

    "This dismal situation was not created by the current recession—which merely spread the pain up the chain into the lower reaches of elite schools. This has been going on for years.

    The law graduates posting on these sites know the score. They know that law schools pad their employment figures—96% employed—by counting as “employed” any job at all, legal or non-legal, including part time jobs, including unemployed graduates hired by the school as research assistants (or by excluding unemployed graduates “not currently seeking” a job, or by excluding graduates who do not supply employment information)."

    Get the point, Dumbass?! Even "law professors" are conceding that law schools manipulate their data. By the way, does California need more licensed attorneys, cretin?!?!

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  91. IRVINE Computer Repair, onsite repairs, no travel cost, starting at $69.00 per hour. Reliable and honest.Serving Irvine, Orange County, CA | CALL NOW (949) 456-0914

    ReplyDelete
  92. hey nando what law school did you got to??

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  93. To the cretin who commented on January 7, 2012 at 2:08 am,

    Learn how to read, bitch. I graduated from ABA-accredited Third Tier Drake. If you had some basic reading comprehension skills, then you would have noticed that this information appears on the right hand side of the main page. It has been there, since this blog started, dumbass.

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=70.187.189.16

    Are you worried about YOUR job prospects, coming out of the University of California, Irvine Sewer of Law?!?! Do you need some reassurance that you are making a wise financial decision? Apparently, you simply want others to confirm your choice to attend law school. Well, this site is about reality - not irrational exuberance, ass-clown.

    From my analytics:

    Visitor detail
    IP address: 70.187.189.16
    IP lookup: ARIN / RIPE
    Unique ID: 4114860849
    First visit: Sat Jan 7 2012 1:55am
    Visits: 2
    Language: English
    Location: Irvine, CA, USA
    Operating system: Windows 7
    Web browser: Internet Explorer 9.0
    Resolution: 1366x768
    Javascript: Enabled

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Jan 7 2012 2:08am 70.187.189.16 2 actions 9s blogger.com/comment-iframe.g
    Jan 7 2012 1:55am 70.187.189.16 1 action 10s google.com uci law job prospects

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  94. This is silly. Please do some research on employment prospect before lumping all of the schools on this blog together. Most are true shitboxes, and you're doing a service by exposing that. But there is a good handful that don't belong on your list. This school is one of them.

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  95. The UC irvine computer science department is even worse. A faculty member was recently arrested for embezzlement in the computer science department (Suda T). Still more faculty research is published in Playboy magazine (Cristina Lopez) and more still are not qualified to teach (they have masters degrees, a requirement for high schools, but somehow it fills a requirement to teach university level courses). I think UC Irvine's Donald Bren school of information and computer science is about to be shut down.

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  96. Oh yea, with all this crap about "diversity" at UC campuses, why have they ghettoized this campus and herded every Asian person here? There is an over 50% Asian population here. This does not seem typical, and it is definitely the same tactic Hitler used to round up ethnic groups into the same space. "Asians belong in Irvine at UC Irvine". There is something definitely corrupt in the UC Regents.

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  97. I am a CPA and I was cosidering earnimg a law degree and an attormy told me I was an idiot, moron for considering it. I also got to my senses and I realized how the hell am I going to pay for it? By the way I know some big firm law partners and they are total assholes. Since they know the law, they know how to make your life fucking miserable without crossing the line into sexual harrassment or discrimination. They fucking work you like a dog and throw you away. Just because you think your Abraham Lincoln because you walked through snow to attend school and lived in a shitty wooden cabin with nothing but candlelight, does not mean they want to give you a job. Dumb idealistic kids.

    Btw the accountant job market sucks too, but I am doing OK in Silicon Valley which BTW has like 7 job listings for attorneys and they are either contract or require lots of demonstrated experience.
    Plus a lot of Big 4 accounting firms are providing legal services sort of a one stop shop for their clients.

    But nonetheless I still got tons of debt from this higher education pyramid scheme. Not much difference between this scam and ACN or AMWAY. Both are systems designed for you to fail and only the absolute top dogs make the money.

    ReplyDelete

 
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