Wednesday, January 19, 2011

Second Tier Septic Tank: Seattle University School of Law

Tuition: For the 2010-2011 school year, a full-time student at this law school will be charged $38,502! Yes, that amount is in US currency.

Total Cost of Attendance: The commode estimates that the total COA - for 9 months - will be $56,259. The school lists the 11 month figure as $59,945. Thus, we can figure that the 12 month total COA will be roughly $61,788.

Ranking: Attending this school will set you back financially. But the institution’s reputation will surely make this a worthy investment, right?!?! Somehow, US News & World Report has $eaTTle Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law listed as the 86th greatest, most amazing and fantastic law school in the United States - in a seven-way tie, by the way.

Supposed Starting Salary Statistics: The commode claims that 100% of its Class of 2008 responded to the graduate survey. Eight percent of those who became lawyers went onto to become solo practitioners. In addition, 56.7% of this cohort went into toiletlaw firms of 2-10 attorneys. Grab the plunger, $eaTTle Law grads!

Average Student Indebtedness: US News reports that the average student indebtedness - for those members of the Seattle University Law Class of 2009 who incurred law school debt - was $95,572. Fully 91% of this commode’s particular graduating class took on such toxic debt.

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Let’s see how well the faculty members are doing, in comparison to their graduates. For this info, we head to page 36 of Seattle University’s 2009 Form 990.

We can see that then-dean of the law school, Kellye Y. Testy, made $383,457 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for 2008. She now occupies the same position at the University of Washington School of Law. However, she is not the only law faculty member to live fat off of the federal student loan $y$tem. Here are some other figures for the same tax year:

We can see that Al Roker, a.k.a. Tayyad Mahmud, “professor of law and director of the Center for Global Justice,” made $214,477 in TOTAL COMPENSATION. Annette Clark, “associate professor of law” made an even $228,700 in TOTAL COMPENSATION. Lastly, “professor” Eric Chiappinelli raked in $400,325. Yes, this bowtie-wearing “educator” made in excess of $400K. Who says “higher education” doesn’t pay off?!?! By the way, look at this excerpt from his bio:

“Dean Chiappinelli's current research interests include nonprofit governance and the relation between corporate law and family dynamics.”

I suppose Chiappinelli might be interested - from an academic standpoint, of course - in the effects that mountains of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt will have on a person’s ability to start a family. Who knows? Maybe Eric A. Chiappinelli will also take some interest in the societal effects of such debt.

According to this graph, for 2005-2006, the school offered full-tuition scholarships to exactly 0.0% of its students. The commode did provide half-tuition scholarships to 1.3 percent of it students.

Look, as a student at this overpriced toilet, you can write onto the prestigious Seattle Journal for Social Justice. Yes, that will impress the hell out of legal and non-legal employers alike, right?!?!

“If these [for-profit trade school] programs keep growing, you’re going to wind up with more and more students who are graduating and can’t find meaningful employment,” said Rafael I. Pardo, a professor at Seattle University School of Law and an expert on educational finance. “They can’t generate income needed to pay back their loans, and they’re going to end up in financial distress. [Emphasis mine]

It doesn’t get much better than this! This “educational finance expert”/”law professor” is telling the New York Times that for-profit schools are garbage pits - when he works at a grossly-overpriced diploma mill. You have reached the heights of hypocrisy, Rafael Pardo.

Conclusion: Seattle University Sewer of Law is a pathetic waste of space. It overcharges its students for an inferior product. Graduating from a toilet law school with $100K-$130K in student debt will not benefit anyone - other than the administrators and “professors” at this dump site.


  1. Apparently, their career services dean's main claim to fame is speaking Chinese. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

  2. "Somehow, US News & World Report has $eaTTle Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law listed as the 86th greatest, most amazing and fantastic law school in the United States - in a seven-way tie, by the way."

    That would make them 2nd tier, not 3rd, right?

  3. "That would make them 2nd tier, not 3rd, right?"

    Honestly, now, who cares?

  4. Hell's bell sonofabitch
    Blew my Aunt Mildred and cured mah 7 year itch

    I was workin' the counter
    When I hads mah greatest encounter

    Auntie Mildred ordered a 20 piece bucket one day
    And she couldn' pay

    She looked fine as hell w/o her 7 kids
    So The COlonel gots a wonderful, awful idea

    I propositioned her fo' some cunnilingus
    And she bit her lip 'n said yes

    (Hot damn, The Colonel's goin' down
    The Colonel's tongue is gonna go t' town)

    I pulled off her socks
    But she twisted my cock

    She shoved my goatee int' her snatch
    Got damn tasted betta than a fresh batch

    Auntie Mildred wrapped her tenda white thighs 'round my face
    I's coulda barely keep pace

    She moaned as I was givin' her head
    That snatch tasted betta than sweet corn bread

    Soon her herbs and spices dribbled down The Colonel's chin
    Those succulent juices rollin' down my cooking bib

    After, she permitted me to clean 'round her thighs
    For that, I's threw in some extra sides

    Dut-du-du-du yeah yeah, The Colonel
    Dut-du-du-du yeah yeah, The Colonel

  5. 8:14

    The title says Second Tier Septic Tank.

    Col. Sanders, I don't what the fuck you're smoking. But I can see some humor in that.

  6. Keep it coming guys! Let's spread the word. Contact other bloggers, open a Facebook page, do whatever it takes so that the word gets out. The NYTimes article helped, but more can be done, more has to be done. The movement now has momentum, let's not loose it.
    Nando, I love you site. You are contributing FAR MORE to society than a greedy ambulance chaser. What happened to you might be a blessing in disguise... in some perverse sort of way.

  7. As a veteran practitioner of this "profession," I get a kick out of kids trying to distinguish their schools from tier 2 and 3. That may be the way the USNWR rag rates them, but in the real world this is how practitioners rank law schools:

    Tier 1: YHS
    Tier 2: Remainder of T14
    Tier 3: All other ABA approved law schools.

    I don't know and I don't care who is ranked as the 100th "best" law school but does any kid that attends that school honestly believe their is a significant difference between the 100th and 101 ranked school? There is no difference, therefore, the lines separating 2nd and 3rd tier schools (according to USNWR) are blurred.

    Lastly, this school should be honored to be on these pages. Prior to today, I was unaware of its existence.

    1. Somewhat true, although some will distinguish somewhat between the schools ranked 4-14.

      More importantly, of the third category, the most important thing is school location. A 3rd tier school ranked in a major urban center will generally place better than a "first-tier" (20-50 ranked) school that's nowhere near the city.

      Basically, most schools outside the top 20 (and arguably the top 10-14) are regional schools that will place best in their region, and less well (or not at all) outside their region. Whereas even low-ranked schools will have a local reputation, and half-decent local placement due to the many local alumni.

  8. Auntie Mildred ... "SO GOOD." That made my day. Thanks Colonel.

  9. No, there isn't a difference between the 100th and 101st, but there is a difference between a USC or Boston College, and Seattle University, so the sub-T14=every other law school claim isn't valid.

    1. There is, but the difference is largely regional in nature, especially outside the top 20.

      BC may be a far better school in most respects than Seattle, but it probably doesn't place much better in Seattle. It might place worse, because it has fewer alumni, and it's not a powerhouse national name like some top 10 schools.

  10. Reginald Thurston Breckinridge IVJanuary 19, 2011 at 1:30 PM

    "Yale or silly plebians...Yale or fail."

    1. Yale is gay. Harvard all the way.

  11. @ 8:14 am,

    “That would make them 2nd tier, not 3rd, right?”

    This is why I listed this school as a second tier septic tank. Perhaps if you had bothered to read the title of the entry BEFORE commenting, you would have noticed that. This blog is not confined to solely covering third tier toilets. I have also profiled commodes in the second, third and fourth tiers – including some schools just outside the vaunted “top 50.”

    The reality of the situation is this: it does not matter if your law school is ranked 62nd or 81st or 93rd. Legal employers typically do not make such distinctions, once you enter this filthy territory.

    Possible exceptions may include rural states that only have one law school at a flagship university, i.e. Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, New Mexico, Idaho, and Montana. If you want to remain in those areas - and do not mind practicing small law - then these schools may not be a terrible choice. You can stay at home for a few years, and graduate with minimal student debt.

    Look at the following average law student indebtedness figures from US News: Idaho, $25,268; Wyoming, $36,016; New Mexico, $51,685; South Dakota, $56,112; Montana, $58,962; and North Dakota, $67,236.

    I still would not any of these schools without a big-ass scholarship. Remember, in today’s FLOODED legal job market, you could just as easily end up with an additional $30K-$75K in non-dischargeable debt – with no job lined up. Imagine taking out $70K to attend North Dakota, and not landing a job as an attorney. Do you think that your JD will be in big demand from food processors, agribusiness or petroleum companies?!?! Are you under the impression that wind energy farms and coal producers will jump at the chance to hire another JD?

    As far as I am concerned, this commode ought to be honored to be featured on this blog. Apparently, plenty of people on TLS don’t have anything nice to say about this dump. Check out this comment from user “northwest” on 3-4-08 at 4:42 am:

    “How's the school?.....not bad. Tuition just shot up 12.8%, so it kind of feels like bait and switch. I started when it was 28k, then it jumped to 30k, now its up to 34k. I'm no good at math, but that's around a 25% increase in 2 years. I'm a little pissed about that.

    Job prospects are pretty much limited to Seattle and WA from what I gather. The legal market is pretty saturated, so prospects aren't great. Lots of competition from UW, and if some out-of-stater from t14 applies to the same job as you, you're probably screwed. Most people (myself included) didn't get paying jobs after first year. Not too many OCI opps either. I am in the top 15% of my class, and I am still looking for 2L work.”

  12. Do I dare ask.

    Colonel, was it 'finger lickin' good'?

    And to all a good nite

  13. Anonymous at 10:54 A.M. is right on track. I would be a little more lenient and say, outside a top 20 school, hiring partners only care where you ranked in the class & if you were on law review or Moot Court. Even if you go to a strong regional school, lets say Fordham for NYC or Loyola for LA, outside that top 20%, your chances of landing a job, even with familial connections, are not that good. Its just the way things are.
    I do get a kick out of kids saying "well my dad is in-house at GM, Disney, they can bring business." Yah, but look at the risk on my end, you are an average student from an OK Law school. If you fail, this is my ass on the line for hiring you.
    The NYT was a good start, yet, didn't highlight how kids who go to more respectable schools still do not find gainful employment from "Tier 2" schools.
    What is your feeling on this Nando?

  14. The Times article was a great start, but I think that more major network television coverage is now needed.

    And more follow up articles in the Times, the WSJ, and the major Press Publications/magazines, like US News and World Report.

    If everyone becomes de-mythologized about the profession of Law, and is aware of the true and deplorable state of the Profession today--- with the debt, the job market etc, I'm sure there would be a lot less people enrolling in Law School.

  15. You're a generous lad colonel - putting Aunty M's needs above your own no doubt strong urge to throw a little ranch dressing. No doubt the moist towelettes came in handy in the washup.

  16. I knew that many of my fellow Claremont McKenna alumni were economic geniuses but Chiappinelli is pulling of an amazing feat: pulling down a salary at Seattle State while still officially being Dean of Law Affairs at Creighton University in Omaha, NE (and presumably also making big bucks there as well).

  17. Wow, Chiapanelli was not even the Dean at Seattle and he made over $400K? I wonder how much he made at Creighton, where he was Dean for a year or so after he left Seattle?

    I think you also missed the $997K loan for Testy's house on the 990.

  18. Living in Seattle is like perpetually being stuck in 1993.

    Here’s a hint to all you other municipalities: if your city’s lifestyle becomes a fad, that fad will end long before you do.

  19. A $997,000 for the bitch's house? Fuck! You talk a sweet fucking deal. All paid for by the student debtors of course.

    And that jackass professor had the nerve to tell the New York Times that Congress should look into for-profits! He doesn't like other diploma shitpaper factories to cut in on his game.

  20. THE UNITED STATES IS A PIECE OF SHITJanuary 20, 2011 at 5:54 PM

    Hey guys. Me again.

    Can you believe that John Kennedy gave his inaugural address 50 years ago today? Look where this nation is today in comparison. This country is a pile of waste, a true shitpile. It is an absolute fucking embarrassment to humanity. I'd rather fuck a West Indies prostitute without a condom than think of this filthy place. I would rather smell dung than take a walk around this country.

    You see the ring of shit inside your toilet bowl? Do you see it? That shitstain is worth more than this entire goddamn country.

    This country built things 50 years ago. Sure, corporations still dominated but they did not own the judiciary, legislative and executive branches outright as they do today.

    I don't know if anyone on this board cares to comment on this or not. All I know is that January 20, 1961 held a lot of promise for this nation. We were still basking in the growth of post-war prosperity. A man without a college diploma could work hard and support a wife and children. He could even pay for his kids' education.

    Now we get pieces of shit like George W. Bush in high office. We can look forward to more of the same by co-opted bungsniffers like Barack Obama.

    January 20, 1961 is well behind us, in both time and in spirit. Think about that for a second will you? We went from Kennedy to Reagan in about 17 years. It has been downhill from there. Now we give tax credits to companies that leave our fucking shores.

  21. I agree with you about this country going downhill, 5:54. My grandfather worked as an auto mechanic in the 60s and he supported a wife and 3 kids who had pretty much anything they wanted just on his salary. Now days, it takes a both parents working 2 jobs each just to make it. I work an office job for low pay and you should see the people I work with - people with advanced degrees, skills, experience, intelligence. 2 of us have JDs from T1 schools and we make poverty wages, literally. "They" keep preaching that the global economy will save us and all the jobs we're losing are being replaced by even better ones now that we don't have to manufacture everything we consume. Well, it seems that all the jobs being created are low-wage service industry jobs and they're even outsourcing information jobs now. I can't believe how different things are even from when I had my first job in the late 90s. Back then, most of the people I worked with didn't have a college degree (and didn't need one, since I worked a clerical job like I do now) and to them, a master's degree was unheard of. Well, now I work the same kind of job making pretty much the same wage and the only difference is that I now have a JD, pretty much everyone in our office give or take 1 or 2 people has at least a bachelor's and many of my co-workers also have advanced degrees! I can't believe we've been sold down the river so corporations can get rich and we can live in poverty. This country does suck and I wish I'd left it when I was 18 like I knew in my heart I should.

  22. the united states = foul pig shitJanuary 20, 2011 at 8:00 PM

    You and me both 7:05. This nation truly is a big steaming bag of filthy pig shit. It's shell of its former self. The leaders of this shithole decided to throw the entire working class fucking overboard so they could repay their corporate donors.

    BTW, that's one thing I wish this blog would cover. Corporate lawyers have aided in this mess. Mergers & acquisitions. What the fuck did people think that was gonna lead to? More jobs?

    Companies merge and first thing they do is cut the fat. Of course this doesn't affect the cocksuckers at the top. Nah, those shitbirds get gigantic bonuses. WHen they fucking lose money they get golden parachutes. What a nice arrangement...for them.

    Oh the depths this country has reached. I mean plummeted. You got people with Master's degrees that are struggling to make it on 10 bucks an hour.

    Aww fuck it. This country is done. Look at our crumbling infrastructure. Look at the national debt. See how much US debt and land is held by India, China.

    I'm just waiting for rigor mortis to set in on this lousy shit-covered corpse known as the United States.

  23. Nice job covering the Ohio schools Nando! And now we get to look at the Seattle School of Law - another state, another giant scam. I dropped out of an Ohio school after 1L to cut losses and thank god I only have a little bit of debt.

    This country really is a festering hellhole. I mean, hey concentrating all the wealth in the hands of a tiny minority has brought us SO much prosperity! It funny because relatives asked me why I left law school. They come from a different generation where people left with little debt. Shit, my mom is a teacher making good money now and left a state college in the early 70's with 2k in debt from undergrad and 3k from a Master's degree! She has seen an enormous return on investment, the same with other relatives. Now this piece of shit country has shipped all the decent blue collar jobs overseas which floods the universities at every level with kids who years ago could have gotten a decent job with a degree. Now they take on massive debt for every level of schooling and don't see shit for a return. One of my cousins just got into John Marshall Toilet of Law in Chicago and has the honor of paying near full tuition! I am trying to talk him out of it but it just isn't sinking in.

    Nobody forced us to sign the dotted line but years and years of conditioning lead us to believe that education is always the answer.

    I just saw the news story about how Camden,NJ is cutting half the police, firefighters losing 1/3, and other job losses too. But hey, just wait until our national orgy known as Christmas and you can get a great job stocking shelves at Walmart!

  24. Guys, I hear you. I think this law school scam shit and the whole higher education scam are just the product of desperate people trying to improve their lives in this stinking hole. Why do people take on so much debt for a shitty JD? Because they want to desperately improve their shitty situation... but going to law school, or any school for that matter, only makes things worse. We, the fucking poor, are constantly writing checks to the filthy rich in so many ways.
    This globalization crap has killed the US. And the fucking fat cats don't care. Bush, Obama, Plain, McCain, Red, Blue, it doesn't matter. They all pursue the same policy: RACE TO THE BOTTOM!
    I am considering going to Central America and just forgetting about my debts. What are they gonna do? Bring me back...

  25. @5:54, excellent post. I was thinking the same while I was listening to MSNBC on Sirius/XM this morning on my way to work.

    It just saddens me that people of my generation and the generations after me will have very little to look forward to now. Now it's all about striking a good relationship with China-- a nation with a long history of human rights violations, IP theft, and shoddy craftsmanship. It sickens me when I read the NY Times sugar coating the Chinese President's visit to the US. Our damn leaders placed this country in a position in which we have to be politically correct not to piss off China which is probably positioning itself to reduce the US to one of its colonies. Maybe we should re-name this country as "The United States of Chinese Taipei" before the President of China returns home.

    All former empires had years of greed and poor leadership which led to its demise. While this country never had emperors or kings and queens, or even dictators for that matter running this nation to the ground, the US has the Boomers Generation to thank for this mess. Once those damn dope, acid popping, disco dancing, pervs took over the companies and was elected into office, it was over. The clock started to run on this country in the late 70’s when the older Boomers started working in corporate America. GE, GM, Chrysler, Disney, and DuPont were truly great companies till boomer CEO’s took over them. This past week it was revealed in some news outlets that the CEO of GE has been in talks with China about exchanging technologies regarding aircraft. Can these damn CEO’s stoop any lower? And what the fuck are our politicians going to do about this? Probably nothing.

    I strongly feel that Clinton, the first Boomer president elected, did the most damage to this country. It was his administration which entered into lop sided trade deals and did absolutely nothing to curtail union greed in preventing manufacturing jobs going over-seas. Clinton was far from a good president and these boomer journalists still pander to him. Then it went from bad to worse under GWB with wars and the deficit and now we have Obama and his lack of leadership. Unless these Boomer deadbeats get out of office and something is done in preventing these damn CEO’s auctioning trade secrets and jobs to the highest bidder, our country is finished.

  26. From your favorite forum. (citing

    The Legal Research Department of a Norther California Superior Court is seeking attorneys willing to volunteer their time as a legal research attorney. The research department is currently seeking attorneys willing to make a minimum 6-month commitment to the court. In particular, Legal Research is seeking volunteer attorneys who have experience in handling criminal matters and/or civil law and motion matters. Active membership in the California State Bar is required.

    Location: Redwood City, Calif.

    This profession is in the death throes and this country is finished.

  27. Globalization is killing us. I understand that jobs and technology are eventually going to flow out, but the government shouldn't be promoting that.
    "You just have to retrain yourself for the new jobs" these fucking economist say. What jobs? Walmart toilet cleaner perhaps? Or "volunteer attorneys"?
    Our leaders are a failure. Obama doesn't have the cojones, Bush was obsessed with 9/11, and Clinton only cared about the ladies.
    The future? Dem, Rep, Tea party, coffee party, none of them are gonna do anything.

  28. Please do not get me started with Courts and Law Firms taking advantage of the unemployed right now! This scummy NYC Boutique is has the balls in seeking unpaid interns:

    But don't let the fancy website sucker you in thinking that this firm is all pro-bono, human rights law office. This same damn firm boasted that it won a $1M verdict in a discrimination suit on its website. If you check out this firm's "Kudos" section, some of this firm's clients commenced suits against Fortune 500 companies.

    What is most ironic is that while this firm's site and *cough* blog rants about the money CEO's earn and how corporations take advantage of its workers, these guys are looking for free labor themselves! Unreal!

  29. Hypocrisy is synonymous with America. I agree this country is in shits right now. And it will probably not get better any time soon.

    But let's be honest. This country was built on the backs of slaves and cheap immigrant labor.

    We had that great period of econ. growth after WWII because we bombed the shit out of Europe and Japan. We had no competitors for a good I don;t know 20 years. Then just as soon as it started the cocksuckers at the top decided to dismantle everything and send everything to SE Asia, China, Mexico. They got theirs and we got the shaft.

    Oh, but we can enroll in a JD/MPA program and makes ourselves more marketable.

  30. @ TMF:

    I Love it! I Love it!

    I love to hear people rant. And I agree with a lot of what you say.

    For what it is worth, a few lines on Baby Boomers vs. today's kids.

    Nasty rumor:
    A barrel boomer
    in your mouth,
    Is all you’ll ever be!
    A baby born 10 years too late
    Prosperity was for them,
    Not thee!

    And what about the Flower Children,
    All those Hippie-crytes?
    In the end they grubbed green money
    With their filty mitts.

  31. Nando, are you ever going to profile a first tier law school? You could give some exorbitantly priced "elite" institution the title of "Most Overrated Law School." With fifty schools to work with you shouldn't have trouble finding one.

  32. @ 10:15 am,

    I have a few first tier toilets on the backburner, at the moment.

    Regarding the depressing discussion from last night, I agree with much of what was said. A friend read over these comments and was a little astonished. The fact is the "leaders" of this nation basically fellated their corporate donors - and did whatever they were told to do.

    These men and women threw the working classes overboard more than 30 years ago. They never looked back, either. In fact, the pigs expedited the job-slashing process with NAFTA and GATT. One-sided free trade agreements ended up hurting us. What a surprise, huh?!

    Check out this historical chart of the US trade deficit. These figures are in the millions of dollars. From 1960 to 1970, the nation still exported more than it imported. Not once, did we have a trade deficit.

    From 1971 to 1983, the nation started experiencing relatively small trade deficits, with the rest of the world. Then look at the HUGE jump that occurred from 1984-1988. The trade imbalance increased from $57.8 billion in 1983 to $109.1 billion in 1984. (Remember, Ronald Reagan helped pave the way for multinational corporations to move overseas. These wealthy pigs received giant tax cuts, and showed their appreciation by moving operations offshore.)

    The deficit leveled off somewhat, until 1994. NAFTA went into effect on January 1, 1994. Americans were told by Clinton administration officials, ad nauseam, that these agreements would create MORE jobs here. Americans knew better; they actually got off their asses and told their members of Congress that this was nonsense. But the “conservative” Republicans and corporate Democrats ignored reality and common sense, and voted for lower tariffs and “free trade.” Clinton the opportunistic, SPINELESS tool then signed these agreements. In the end, it appears the man ran for president for the sake of saying, “I was president of the United States.”

    Manufacturing jobs are scarce now. Millions then went to college to improve their “marketability” and increase their “skill set.” After all, we were going to be engaging in intellectual, white-collar jobs. We then discovered that white-collar jobs are even easier to offshore and outsource.

    This helps explain why we have millions of college-educated Americans working at jobs that do not require a 4 year degree. Now, we are seeing people with advanced degrees who are now making $10-$12 an hour. All while the cost of “higher education” skyrocketed. What a great $y$tem, huh?!

    1. Obviously our trade surplus diminished when our competitors recovered after WWII.

      Here's all that really matters:

      1. Free trade (and Globalization) helped contain/defeat communism, and prevent WWIII. It continues to do the latter.

      2. It has raised living standards greatly around the globe.

      3. It has raised living standards here as well. Real median incomes, even after adjusting for inflation, have essentially doubled since the early 50's. Are are also much higher today than the early 60's. They were never much higher than now, even after 8 years of third-world socialist leadership.

      4. Yes, unskilled workers have been hit hard by globalism. But they are a smaller minority of the workforce today, and the obvious answer is to give them better skills. Reform the education system, ban teachers unions which protect incompetence and misallocate resources, and stop pushing slow/average kids into four-year university programs when they should be learning skilled trades.

      Overall, most Americans live today like only the upper-class could 50-70 years ago, with large, flat-screen tvs, cable, mobile phones, computers, wireless internet, air-conditioning, advanced cars, large homes, advanced health care, airline vacations thousands of miles away, (over)full bellies, etc.

      Things were not better in the past. And they simply need to be tweaked today. By an actual American president. Not some foreign dipshit.

  33. Empires come and Empires go. The U.S. is no different, however there are forces within the gov't that are purposly causing these imbalances. In some cases for financial profit, e.g., 9/11 WAS an inside job, or increased power by a bunch of megalomaniacs. I'm looking forward to secession. Does that sound traitorous? It shouldn't. Wht do you think our country's forefathers did? In essence they seceded from British authority. Soon there won't be enough money to police the country/world by the U.S., no more federal monies greasing the states' wheels, etc. At that point, what't the point of federalism? I want to go to a small rural state and leave all these power hungry, greedy bastards to suffer alone. One of the posters said Clinton did the most damage to this country. I'd say Nixon and/or Reagan. Nixon took the country off the gold standard. Reagan started the whole deficit spending mess. Don't elect any more cowboys or actors. Moreover, don't elect anyone from Texas. Do you hear that "Giant Sucking Sound" yet? Ross Perot was only about 15-20 years too early.

  34. The Red State/Blue State-Republican/Democrat thing is just a ploy to keep the little people at each other's throats, while those who are "in the club" take care of business...for themselves.

    What we are seeing is the end of what I call the "World War Two Effect". For decades, the United States was buoyed by the lingering aftermath of a destroyed Europe, a devastated Japan, and fledgling economies in the East, which had just begun their own post-colonial phase. India, China, Indonesia, you get the picture.

    Now, with a recovered and mature Europe and Japan (in some ways re-developing problems of their own now) and an emerging East, the United States is merely returning to what it was pre-WWII: one power among many.

    It is overlooked by many that the United States wasn't always world power, let alone a lone superpower, which of course we no longer are. Hell, the U.S. Army wore canvas leggings and rode horses right up to WWII.

  35. Yup, I agree the whole democrat-republican dichotomy is just a bunch of crap to divide us all. Here's how the cycle works: Elect a Republican, which then gets all his buddies rich, then Amerika decides to elect another puppet jerk, but this time from the democratic side. The democrat spends and spends, until he gets sacked in favor of another Republican who gets all his buddies rich. REPEAT CYCLE 10 times. This is what we have in this country. It's ridiculous! Stop voting these jerks into office. Elect independents ... except that jerk Lieberman who switches parties at will in order to get reelected. Thankfully, he's decided not to run again.

  36. The two party system is a fucking joke. You think wwe ended up with a $14 trillion national debt because of one party? Shit, it is a game. Both parties play the voters off each other. Meanwhile, the rich cocksuckers who O-W-N the fucking country are making more piles of money.

    I just summed up political science for all you kids who want to study that area. There is nothing scientific about it. Like I said it is a game. Business A buys Politician B to get what it wants. End of story. Good. I just saved you 4 years and $30K for a worthless piece of shit degree. You can use that time to get a real degree. One that employers will actually take seriously.

  37. I just dropped out of Seattle University School of Law two weeks ago. Great post, with a lot of really important information. I'm sure I'm not unique in that I saw law school as a way to gain credibility with employers and to get ahead in the job market. For someone who has been in school their whole life, the idea of returning to school to get ahead becomes extremely attractive, simply because it keeps you within your comfort zone. What I didn't fully realize is that it's a very expensive comfort zone.

    Nando, I'm with you on your economic commentary. Our present understanding of economics is deeply flawed. For the past 30 years, the majority of Americans have watched their standard of living and share of societal wealth decline sharply. Most Americans seem fine to justify this through a competitive perspective (you're not competitive, thus, you're poor), but we have a harder time internalizing the fact that there's simply no justification for inequality.

  38. Until we stop giving hand outs to people capable of working while also paying to prop up other countries economies all while not protecting our borders, this country will continue to get worse economically and socially. The end result is the middle class will be eliminated and our culture will be destroyed. Rich will be rich whether it is Dem or Repub in office but Dems will destroy this country with their social programs..

    That being said, we are still the best place to live in the world. There is still time to fix it but law as a noble profession is not part of it. Dont go to law school you unconnected fools.

    When we get destroyed as a country we will split up like the USSR with the successful states having a certain kind of person in it and the failure China/Cuba type states will have other types of people in it. Its like the concept of neighborhood schools. Bring the troublemakers to you or be labeled racist.

    If you think it is bad now, wait until Obamas healthcare program kicks in.


  39. "... and the failure China/Cuba type states will have other types of people in it."

    January 21, 2011 4:49 PM

    So, in your view, China, the greatest trading partner Wal Mart has ever known, is a failed state? Looks to me like they are ascending economically, militarily, diplomatically. Seems they are doing fairly well as of late, while we seem to be coasting downhill, with endless wars and a shrinking industrial sector.

    In what way, specifically, are they a failure as a state?

  40. Hi Carl,

    You made a wise decision to withdraw from the Seattle School of Law. I wish I had your maturity when I was 1L and realized that my TTToilet's degree would have the same value as one from the University of Phoenix. I've read a few of your entries on your "Pythagoreanism" blog ( and am impressed with your economic analysis that debunks the myth that higher education will save the American workforce. Best of luck on your blog and I look forward to reading it.


  41. I, too, caught on too late to the law school scam. I should have cut loose after first year grades, no question about it. The law degree is the only one I know of that will be held against you mercilessly. No one will grill your ass about that useless Art History degree, but a JD is a real hindrance in the non-legal world.

  42. On pages 61-62 of “The Wilding of America,” author Charles Derber wrote:

    “Third World wages and working conditions, however, are the result not of the pure market described in economic textbooks, but rather of a politically managed regime that keeps wages artificially low while subjecting workers to often brutally exploitative conditions.”

    I am glad that we are having this economics discussion. In the end, we are consumers. The U.S. economy is stimulated by consumer spending. As student debtors, we are consumers of education. We typically attain higher education because we want a chance at a decent life. As such, we seek a positive return on our investment of (borrowed) money, time and energy. Law students effectively take themselves out of the job market for several years. This is also the case for many college students, and those attending other graduate degree programs.

    We did not do so, because we figured that we would come out making $35K per year. While one should not look at law school or college as a way to become wealthy, the fact remains that we have been inundated - from our earliest days - with the message that “Education is the key to your future.” In addition, the cost of “higher education” has skyrocketed in the last 20-30 years. At many public universities, the price has doubled or tripled within the span of 6-10 years. This is UNSUSTAINABLE.

    Earlier, I posted a link to a U.S. Census chart, which showed the trade balance over the last 50 years. When this country produced goods on a large scale, a worker could provide for his family - without so much as an associate’s degree. Now, it takes two income-earners to make ends meet. While a fair amount of this is due to conspicuous consumption (thanks Ronald Reagan, you imbecile), the fact remains that Americans are now swimming in consumer debt - combined with a low savings rate. We were able to artificially prop up our faltering economy via credit card spending, for many years.

    That said, the Wall Street Journal reported in August 2010 that NON-DISCHARGEABLE student debt eclipsed credit card debt, in this country.

    According to FinAid’s student debt clock, Americans owe $883 billion in combined student loan debt. In June 2010, student debt stood at $826.5 billion. Do you understand the gravity of the situation? Student debt basically increased by $56.5 billion in about 7 months.

    We have other serious financial problems in this country. The accumulated national debt has exceeded $14 trillion. Most state governments are also accruing tons of debt.

    Check out this report card on U.S. infrastructure, from the American Society of Civil Engineers. In fact, ASCE estimates that we need to invest $2.2 trillion into infrastructure.

  43. Yes, this country is fucked. Well at least I can tell my offspring I got to see the country go to shit firsthand.

  44. Hey Nando, if I decide to stop paying my private student loans from law school, can I post the status of the collection procedure on your website? I'm seriously considering doing this because I think garnishment may be a better option given my current financial situation.

    -Publius (for now)

  45. Friend of mine just went into default on 60k in undergrad loans for a communications degree! This kid can't ask family for help because they are completely broke. First in family to go to college and just drank the whole time and could barely write a coherent 2 page paper. Years ago he would have been fine at a decent blue collar job, but hey, remember, deindustrialization was going to bring crazy space age jobs for all of us! There were so many people in my undergrad (Ohio State) who graduated with sub 3.0 GPA's in the social sciences. The colleges are flooded with people like this. One professor told me he feels sick seeing these kids take on debt for worthless degrees! Said at least half of the kids in the social sciences are so poorly equipped academically to start college that it should be a crime to let them attend for 4 years. I encountered very few people who had less than the 24k debt figure and now they can maybe get a 35k a year job if they are lucky. But what about okay students, surely they are okay? Hell no, tack on more debt for grad school and you approach unhealthy debt levels. I would have no problem with law schools if students graduated with 50k in debt and stood a fighting chance of landing a 50k starting salary job. Instead we have six figures of debt and maybe, maybe you they can land a 40k job.

    I saw a Devry commercial on TV advertising their graduate school and called students "academics" and I want to puke. I have a relative who is dead set on attend John Marshall Chicago for law school and I have another one dead set on Devry/Kaplan/or some other bullshit for-profit. She said "in America anyone can get ahead with hard work!" This is such bullshit, there is very, very little upward mobility in this country. Born poor, guess what? Your ass is going to die poor.

    Americans are so unfathomably stupid it keeps me up at night. I went to Walmart today and saw broke-ass people buying all sorts of shit they don't need and can't afford. I hate that place so much but I am broke so guess where I have to shop? I buy essentials and these morons are paying with credit to buy cheap imported garbage. I remember my mom and I bought some dishes there and I actually found something made in America! Stop the fucking presses!

    Most of the people I went to college with are making 40k working ridiculous 60 plus hour weeks. There isn't shit out there right now and there will not be any work for a long, long time. So what do they do? Support the slime at every level of higher education by going back to school to get worthless degrees with that good ol' student loan money.

  46. Just be patient... the jobs are 'round the corner!

  47. Obama will save us!

  48. @ Anon: Fordham Law is an extremely strong law school with great national and international cred - so you may want to use another school in your analogy in order for it to ring true.

  49. Nando, this post is hilarious. Keep spreading nonsense on topics you have no experience about.

    1) There's nothing wrong working at a small firm. I'm three years out and make the same or more than many of my co-graduates at large firms. I work less hours and have more responsibility. It's great.

    2) The school you graduated from MAY help you get your FIRST job. It doesn't matter where you went if you're a good lawyer when you're looking for your second job. Do Baltimore fans care that Flacco went to Delaware instead of USC? No. If you're good, you're good, it doesn't matter where you went.

    3) Law school ranks mean very little to employers. I just interviewed 20 applicants and I couldn't tell you if U of Oregon was ranked higher than Hastings. I didn't care. There was a Michigan gal in there (which I think is a top 10 school), but her writing was horrible. A Gonzaga law grad was hired (likely the lowest ranked school that interviewed, you tell me). It was about their body of work, how they presented themselves, and their writing sample; not their law school.

    I'm sorry you couldn't find a law job after law school. Perhaps if you weren't such a negative person spouting off about topics you know nothing about, you could have found a job.

  50. ^This guy has been cited by numerous publications for someone who doesn't know anything about the topic. Does the dean have his hand up your skirt so you can know what to say?

  51. To prevent all these awful and unsanitary consequences all you need is to check the septic tank and clean the pumps. Sewer cleaning is the only solution to many drain problems.

  52. I thought long and hard about whether I should post here but here goes... I am a student at Seattle University Law and I can tell you that, qualitatively, it is a very good school. Not only do we have a super sleek facility, we also have wickedly smart professors with incredible experience who are as inspiring as they are ball-breaking. Is SU the kind of law school where you can expect to land a top dollar position in litigation at a big firm? Probably not. But that is not really the point...

    Getting a legal education at Seattle University has less to do with making a six figure salary than it does with exercising what privilege you have in service to others. The point of an SU education is not, as some of commentators on this forum would seem to have it, devoting your career in service to yourself.

    That said, a friend of mine who I have known for several years graduated from Stanford two years ago and is now with a non-profit pulling down less than 60k. Meanwhile, two of my SU friends have gone on to work litigation with the same V50 firm and, after five years, they are making a whole lot more than that. I do not dispute that landing a gig at a big firm after graduating from SU is less likely than it is after graduating from a school like Stanford. But, regardless of one's school, at the end of the day, a law degree is just a tool. Some tools may be intrinsically more valuable than others but it is ultimately up to you to leverage it.

    Moreover, comparing a school like SU to the kind of schools that one attends if they want a fat paycheck is like comparing apples to oranges. Instead of arbitrarily ragging on non-USNWR ranked T14 law schools, why don't you look into the mission of the school under consideration and evaluate whether the school owns up to what it asserts to offer? Not all law schools are the same and it is not merely an assessment of the USNWR ranking and the promise of a big firm job that draws one to a school like SU.


  54. ^^ I am inclined to agree. The JD can open doors but its up to you to walk through them.

    Also, about 30k a year isn't bad for a private. And aren't they ranked number one in the country for legal writing???

  55. @ April 13, 2011 9:02 pm,

    “I do not dispute that landing a gig at a big firm after graduating from SU is less likely than it is after graduating from a school like Stanford.”

    I’m glad you don’t dispute this fact. Only a complete moron would attempt to do so.

    By the way, the average law school indebtedness was listed at $95,572 – for the $eaTTle Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law Class of 2009. Try repaying that amount, on top of your living expenses, on a $35K-$50K salary. Keep in mind that this is law school debt alone. Imagine what additional undergrad debt will do to one’s income/budget.

    To April 14, 2011 11:30 am,

    Who gives a wet fart whether the commode is ranked first in legal writing?! Is that going to make law firms kick the doors in, to hire kids from the 86th best law school in the land?!?! Do you see top-flight schools wetting themselves because their “writing program” is rated highly? Real law schools only care about their overall reputation.

  56. April 13, 2011 9:02 PM :

    Your anecdotes are great, 9:02, but they do not really relate to what the scamblogs are all about.

    Of course people have and do reach success with thir law degrees, from all kinds of places. The scamblogs merely warn the kids to think VERY, VERY CAREFULLY before doing heavy borrowing to pursue a degree at one of these (sorry, my apologies) festering toilets. Your chances of getting a $40000.00-a-year job in order to attempt to pay off a six-figure school debt is just not a good formula for most. The scamblogs seek to dissuade kids who are "defaulting" into law school, in desperate pursuit of the attempt to save their worthless liberal arts degree, and for lack of knowing what else to do.

    These Third and Fourth Tier Toilets just are not a good idea for MOST students, despite the anecdotal or outlier success stories. Your post does not change that reality, especially in this contracting legal job market. You've got Michigan grads looking at India, are you kidding me?

    Best to you in all endeavors.

  57. You certainly spend a lot of time Googling "shit" in order to come up with cute pictures for your little website.

    I had no idea people were as bitter about the piss poor job market as you are. Have you ever been to Seattle? Do you know the legal market here? Or am I correct in assuming you dun larned everything Google could taught you 'bout See-attle?

  58. The last time I was in Seattle was September 2009, bitch. It is a nice city, for pedestrians. I saw several toiletlaw firms, when I would walk to my hotel room.

    Can you refute ANYTHING I said about this festering toilet?! By the way, how does Seattle support three law schools? Gonzaga and the University of Washington are also pumping out plenty of JDs each year.

    Look at the sources I cited, in the main entry, moron. The school claims that 56.7% of its recent grads went into toiletlaw firms of 2-10 attorneys. How much do you think these men and women are taking home, defending drunk drivers, deadbeat dads, and illegal immigrants?!?!

    Take the debt load into consideration, mental midget. For the $eaTTle Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law Class of 2009, this figure was $95,572. This is not including student debt from undergrad, ass-hat. Do you understand that, cretin?!?!

  59. The perk that I see in Seattle Law is that the market is much less saturated than my home market CA or DC or NY.

  60. I know several attorneys who came from seattle u (which used to be UPS until seattle U bought). They are very pleasant to work with and aren't as bad as big firm attorneys that you find that come from other places.

    That said, I know that Seattle U highly inflates their grades. over 50% of the class generally gets a cum laude or above and I believe the average GPA is 3.6 to 3.7. (which is not unheard of when you get in these rankings)

    In the Seattle job market, seattle U attorneys favor other seattle u attorneys over other candidates. Perkins Coie has been known to do that. Also, for in house opportunties, look for them to hire only their own.

    1. I think you have that backwards. SU's GPA is far lower than the other law school in the area, UW. Also, only the top 25% get cum laude. In fact, it's so much lower that they have been looking into raising the curve for some time.

      Think before you type.

  61. I do not think that the OP has much knowledge of how the Seattle job market operates. Firstly, there are many good smaller firms with less than 12 associates in the area and SU grads certainty fair well here. The median salary of SU grads in the private sector is 80k so I would hardly call these smaller firms "toilet firms." Secondly, while SU grads do compete with UW grads for Seattle jobs, SU grads are generally more sought after than those from Gonzaga. Finally, I definitely agree with the above commenter in that there is a strong alumni network in place in the Seattle area that often tips the scale in the direction of hiring SU grads over those from other schools. If you intend to work in Seattle, SU is overall a pretty darn good school to look into. I think the OP got this one wrong and would be wise to do more research into the regional influence certain schools can exert before passing judgment.

  62. Why do all your rants about "toilet law firms" surround money? Not only are you not factoring in the fact that the Seattle region has a lot of people who are interested in helping others rather than getting a fat paycheck, but starting salaries are not the end all in the legal world. Far from it. For someone who wants to be an attorney and live in the Seattle area SU law is a great choice and has a strong presence in the community. This whole blog seems to be written by an extremely jaded individual jealous of other's success.

    1. Are you insane?

      My spouse went to this piece of shit school. My spouse didn't have dreams of making a ton of money and money wasn't their primary motivation, they also did a lot of housing justice pro bono work. All my spouse wanted was some decent reasonable job.

      Now, after 5 years my spouse still can't find regular work but still owes a ton of money. People are talking about they money because they are 100k in debt. You idiot. Do you know what that does to your life?

      1. We can't afford a 2nd child because of Seattle U (ironic given the Catholic connection)

      2. Our marriage has suffered because of the debt and my spouse's inability to get a job. Prior to being sucked by this toilet my spouse has a promising career in business.

      3. My spouse is deeply depressed and has had to seek medical treatment.

      So STFU when you judge people. We didn't do it for the money, but Seattle U using their shitty law school as a money machine. They produce 2x the number of lawyers than UW. Most of my spouse's classmates haven't found work and have given up on a career in law but they still have the debt. This includes one person who graduated in the top 5. He makes 40k.

      Seattle U is a fraud.

  63. There are two law schools in Seattle. Public UW and private Seattle. Both are regarded as excellent throughout the Puget Sound region and, as such, grads do pretty well landing the kind of position they are after in the Seattle area upon completion of the JD. Seattle U's presence is so flipping positive in the community that you'd be hard pressed to find a Seattlite with anything bad to say about the school. This blogger's perspective is clearly that of an outsider looking solely at the arbitrary rankings and assuming that, in this case, they foretell job prospects. What he fails to see is that this particular school, local firms and the Seattle community are tightly woven together in a close knit relationship. It is highly respected in Seattle not only because of the philanthropy and service coming out of this school but also because of the significant roles many Seattle alumni have played in the area (I refer you here and  the list is far from complete). Even though i agree with the comment that this blogger is overly fixated on raw dollars and most certainly needs a "reality" check as it concerns SU, as was said above newly minted JDs average 80k in the private sector (the blogger neglected this fact and opted instead to classify the firms driving these salaries as "toilet firms") and the reason for this is the reputation this school has in Seattle. I challenge the blogger to do more homework and revise this entry so that it is more in sync with real reality and not just some random arbitrary assault spewing from a bitter blogger who never got to practice law.  

    1. You are misinformed. SU's law school doesn't have a good reputation. First, it is pretty new because they "bought it" from another school. I've been a client of some of the top law firms in town (GSB, DWT, PC, WSGR) and never ever came across a single law school grad at any of those schools. Plenty of UW and T14 grads but ZERO from SU.

      My wife went to SU and couldn't find ANY job after years of trying despite having no problems finding jobs prior to law school. None of her friends from SU have found a good job. NONE NONE NONE.

      Every single one of her friends is unemployed, grossly under-employed doing document review garbage, or have given up on the law altogether.

      SU's career services are a joke and totally worthless. The priests running this place use the law school as a cash cow. It destroys people's lives, destroys marriages, etc., and they should be punished for this fraud.

      Hey, but at least my wife can still do her housing for justice work. Too bad that doesn't pay.

  64. To the piece of moist waste who posted on July 2, 2011 ar 3:17 pm:

    "I challenge the blogger to do more homework and revise this entry so that it is more in sync with real reality and not just some random arbitrary assault spewing from a bitter blogger who never got to practice law."

    I challenge YOU to grow a set of balls, a backbone, and brain, cockroach. Brush your teeth, while you are at it, bitch. Instead of spewing nonsense that the school fed you, why don't you provide actual facts to back up your (anemic) case?!?!

    By the way, money is very important, you waste of sperm and egg. (Too bad your mother didn't slip on a banana peel, when she was carrying your sorry ass.) Perhaps in academia, the "professors" and administrators do not need to worry much about the market forces. After all, these pigs would be out on their ass, if they were operating under anything resembling a "free market."

    "Size of Firm 137 100.0
    Solo 24 17.5 *
    2-10 72 52.6 55,000
    11-25 6 4.4 *
    26-50 6 4.4 *
    51-100 7 5.1 90,000
    101-250 7 5.1 110,000
    251-500 3 2.2 *
    501+ 12 8.8 125,000"

    Fully 17.% of those who went into private practice became solo practitioners. For $ome rea$on, their starting salary info was not reported in this survey. In addition, 56.7% of this cohort went into toiletlaw firms of 2-10 attorneys. These are small law boutiques, where the focus is on sales.

    By the way, you provided a list of notable alumni - from Seattle University. Here is a list of notable alumni of the $eaTTle Univer$iTTy Sewer of Law.

    "Michele Radosevich, Wisconsin State Senate and lawyer"

    There is one person listed - and I have never heard of this woman. ONE DAMN PERSON IS VIEWED AS A NOTABLE ALUMNA. Thank you for further showing that this school is a foul, moist dung heap.

    By the way, she was a member of the Wisconsin State Senate BEFORE attending law school. Now, I see why you apologist swine never stick to the facts.

  65. Here are some more notable alumni from SU law, and this took about 5 minutes of poking around - there are many more. The Wikipedia page mentioned earlier is not comprehensive.

    President of Colby-Sawyer College -

    Governor of Alaska -

    Washington Supreme Court -

    Keep in mind too that the law school is still relatively young, though it has maintained a steady upward climb in quality and (dare I say) prestige. For example, I think it is fair to say that a majority of the judges in Washington State are now SU alumni.

    When you look at SU law through a national lens, you will find little to celebrate. But it is a well-respected regional school, and its grads do go on to find great jobs in the region, even during the recession.

    Lastly, your vitriol, Nano, is disgusting. Grow up.

    1. You are disgusting. You probably work for SU and profit on the suffering of those you've suckered into 100k of debt.

      I know MANY people who went to SU Law. None of them are happy. Including people who graduated at the top of their class. Most of them are just scrapping by, e.g., working as a Notary or Paralegal, and struggling with massive debt.

      Yet each year, more idiots show up.


    “Justice Charles W. Johnson was sworn-in to the Washington State Supreme Court in January 1991. He won re-election for a second term in 1996, a third term in 2002, and a fourth term in 2008. He is now the most senior justice on the court, and Associate Chief Justice. Justice Johnson was born in Tacoma. He attended Curtis High School, and graduated from the University of Washington in 1974. While working full-time in a Tacoma lumber mill, he attended the University of Puget Sound School of Law (now Seattle University School of Law) graduating in 1976.

    Justice Johnson is the first graduate of the Seattle University School of Law to reach the Washington Supreme Court.”

    As you can see, Charles W. Johnson is the first graduate of this toilet to land on this court, dumbass. So far, he is the only member of this tribunal, with a law degree from the Seattle University Sewer of Law. Also, mental deficient, you should mention that this man earned his JD in 1976, bitch. For some reason, you left that out, cockroach.

    “Parnell '87, was elected Alaska's lieutenant governor in 2006 and became governor in July after former Gov. Sarah Palin's surprise resignation. The circumstances - and the fascination with Vice Presidential Candidate Palin - cast Parnell into the national spotlight as he took over for the woman who had attracted from around the world. When he was sworn in, reporters from the "Lower 48" as Alaska calls the contiguous United States, swarmed. While he handled it with grace, he's relieved to see the focus where he believes it should be.”

    Somehow, you forgot to mention that Sean Parnell assumed office after borderline retard Sarah Palin resigned as governor of Alaska. Also, the headline reads “Sean Parnell is law school’s first governor.” As sitting lieutenant governor, Parnell LOST a primary election for a Congressional seat. (By the way, when he attended this stink pit, it was still referred to as the University of Puget Sound.)

    “Parnell attended Pacific Lutheran University, earning his B.B.A. in 1984, and University of Puget Sound School of Law (now Seattle University School of Law) earning his law degree in 1987.”

    Tom Galligan graduated from this pile of rubbish in 1981, moron. By the way, what the hell is Colby-Sawyer College?
    Did it ever enter your little brain that these elected officials and college presidents either had STRONG political, business and family connections via birth or their intense sales skills and personalities?!?! The law degree did not set them apart. You can find members of state supreme courts, Congress, state legislatures, and the governor’s mansion from MANY third tier commodes and fourth tier trash pits. This dung heap has been in operation since 1972, and you found three successful alumni - NONE of whom earned their JD after 1987. Grow a brain stem, tramp.

    1. I think it is fair to say that if a law school is sold from one school to another it is not a well regarded law school. I mean, when do universities sell of academic units? When it is a cash cow that's when.

      You are buying all that garbage the SU admin is feeding you about how the school is an up and comer that went from TTTT to 85 or whatever.

      I have multiple family members who went to this turd. They are deep in debt. Can find a well paying job. Most of their classmates are in the same boat.

  67. This blog is a joke. I graduated from Seattle U recently, have a great job at a highly respected 5-attorney firm in Seattle and make over $100k a year. I also get to set my own schedule and get to go on vacation whenever I want without being tied down by big-firm billing hours. So, if that means that I got a toilet degree and work in a toilet firm, then flush me over because I am living the toilet dream!

  68. This blog RULES and only strengthens my belief that I did the right thing in deciding against attending law school (at Seattle U) to instead continue working.

    3 people in my non-legal field Seattle office have law degrees, and I make more than 2 of them doing the same boring paperwork.

    Keep it coming!

    1. Good for you. You've saved yourself a lot of pain. You've saved your family a lot of suffering.

  69. I always love the example of the 1 (one) lucky person from the toilet law school that disparages this blog because he/she/it got a job. Whoopi for you! That doesn't equate to reality.


    To the piece of trash who tried to post SEVERAL comments on this old entry, on May 4, 2012:

    How is life in Renton, Washington, cockroach?!?! Are you upset because you caught your girlfriend blowing a real man, once again, loser? Or did he merely have her feet pressed next to her ears this time?

    From my analytics, bitch:

    Visits: 2

    Unique ID: 2327544746
    IP address:
    Locale: Renton, WA, USA / English
    Platform: Internet Explorer 9.0 / Windows 7 / 1280x1024

    Grow some hair on your little balls, ass-clown. Seattle University Sewer of Law is a pathetic waste site. If you want to piss away your financial future, then go ahead, dung beetle. Don’t say that you weren’t warned, however.

  71. This law school is a big steaming pile of fucking shit, man. It's godawful. You can smell this shitter from I-5. If you have any friends or loved ones considering law school, don't let them come here.

  72. Avoid this shithole at all costs. My ex went here. I didn't come along. Now she works at a car rental company. She doesn't represent them as a lawyer mind you. She works in sales. I only have a BA and I make more than that.

  73. The bald freak with a bow-tie Eric Chiapppdnvb whatever his last name is, which is so long that it is irritating to remember and subsequently spell, is definitely NOT worth $400,000 a year. At the airport where I change Skydrol in aircraft hydraulic systems, there are business people who work for Apple who bust their testicles actually designing somethimg we use, who do not make that kind of money. I also notice these law schools have huge faculties, which supports the fact that they do not teach very much.

  74. I graduated from SU law school last Spring. About half-way through the program the weight of the debt and crappy job market hit me. It scared the shit out of me and for the next two years I thought I had ruined my life, I thought I might never be able to afford a home or having children. But the job market improved, I passed the bar and immediately landed an attorney job at a low-pressure family-friendly firm. Even as a first-year associate my after-tax, after-student-loan income is still more than I was making before law school, plus there are raises/bonuses pending. And once those loans are paid off (10 year plan for me), i'll be REALLY comfortable. Its an investment that takes 10+ years before anyone can accurately evaluate returns. My SU law school friends are landing good jobs too, not many 6-figure jobs, but good jobs. In short, it was a shitty, scary ride, but I think we're going to be ok (most of us).

  75. I graduated from here 12 years ago. I was on law review too. And now I make $41,000 a year doing shit work.

  76. Graduated in summer. Took the bar in July. I have quite a few law friends, none of which don't now have a law job. Not surprising... While jobs numbers are somewhat low before passing the bar, according to TLS, "the rate of employment nine months after graduation is perhaps more important. Here, Seattle grads fare much better, with a stellar 93.3% employment rate."

    I've got buddies doing in-house work, commercial lit and transactions, public interest, real estate, and crim prosecution and defense. So, what's the big deal, if you're willing to burden yourself with the debt? Don't get me wrong, if you don't have money squirreled away you're talking heafty debt. But that's no different than any law school. So ultimately, if you want an atty job and you're willing to make the effort, I see nothing wrong with Seattle. And the professor's salaries, big whoop. Yeah, they get paid like senior partners. So what?

  77. I have asked a number of professors how much they make, and (presuming they are honest) most of the full professors make around 150k. Assistant profs make quite a bit less. If you look at their public disclosure of top salaries, this seems to be accurate. Most of the top 5 have senior administrative appointments or endowed supplements. Other schools might be different, but most SU profs seem to make what a big law first year associate makes, and some of these people were partners at firms pulling in far more. My experience is that the faculty is very concerned about student job prospects and most of them spend substantial effort to help.

  78. The author seems to condemn the fact that so many of this schools grads work in solo or small firms. For over 20 years now the majority of lawyers practicing in the USA have worked solo or in firms with 5 or fewer lawyers. If you want to practice law in the modern age, you get your law degree and start your own law business. Graduating law school then going to work for a 100 lawyer or even a 7 lawyer law firm has not been a reality for an entire generation of lawyers.


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