Sunday, February 6, 2011

Decrepit, Fourth Tier Waste Pile: Oklahoma City University School of Law

Before I jump into the subject matter, I would like to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the birth of this foul, pile of excrement. Who else could have TRIPLED the accumulated, national debt of this country in eight, short years?!

“Eureka College failed the Education Department's financial-responsibility test in the years 2007-09.”

How fitting is it that Moron’s alma mater failed the Department of Education’s financial responsibility test, for several years?

Tuition: For the 2010-2011 school year, a full-time student at the sewer will be charged $33,221.50 in tuition. Part-time students will only be charged $23,065.

Ranking: The school is located in Oklahoma City. That’s the good news. For some reason, US News & World Report has listed this school down as a fourth tier, sweltering dung heap.

Employment Statistics: Since this fourth tier pile of waste did not supply employment placement info, we go to another source. Law School Numbers shows that the 83.9% of the commode’s Class of 2005 was employed within nine months of graduation.

The school does not mention what percentage of its grads ended up serving appetizers at McFinn’s Pub, or how many graduates are checking IDs at the door of The Eight Ball. Furthermore, the sewer of law did not state how many OCU JDs are selling Allstate insurance policies, or installing cabinets and tabletops at Home Depot.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average student debt - for those OCU Law 2009 grads who incurred law school debt – as $102,125. The magazine also notes that 85% of this wretched graduating class took on such debt, to attend this dung pile.

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Head over to page 26 of Oklahoma City University’s 2009 Form 990, to take a look at how well OCU “law professors” are doing. We can see that dean Lawrence Hellman made $250,881 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for 2008. Yes, Hellman made $213,731 in base compensation, plus $37,150 in nontaxable benefits. But that’s not all!

You see, associate dean for academic affairs Eric Laity “earned” $197,885 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the same tax year. Then again, he is a member of the International Fiscal Association and the American Society for International Law. Arthur G. LeFrancois made $186,853 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, while teaching criminal law, criminal procedure and jurisprudence. Lastly, Dennis W. Arrow, “professor of law” and associate director of the Native American Legal Resource Center, made $164,510 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for 2008. Now, we can see why EVERYONE in the U.S. should seek “higher education.”

But who cares about that, right?! After all, this commode is committed to diversity!!

Here is an apt answer to that age old question: Which law school is better? OCU in Oklahoma City or California Western in San Diego?

“Don't do it! Don't go to law school!!! It sucks, it is expensive, and, unless you like reading material 24/7 that is so indecipherable that you need other books just to help you understand what you are reading (i.e. your textbooks), having only one test determine your entire grade in any given course, and going to school with cocky d*cks, don't go. And most lawyers don't make very much money, contrary to popular belief, unless they work in some big firm in a cubicle (spending upwards of 80 or 90 hours at the office per week). I am telling you, find another profession!!!!!!”

Conclusion: This school is a fourth tier stink pit that overcharges its students. News flash: you do not need to take on an additional $110K-$150K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, in order to find a damn job. Most students will not benefit from obtaining a law degree from a FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT, such as this one. Legal employers care about a school’s ranking. If you attend a fourth tier dump, you need to land in the top 2-5 students in the class to have a shot at decent legal employment.

If you want, you can send me a check for $10K and I will be happy to kick you square in the gonads. It will not be nearly as painful as being an unemployed, broke-ass lawyer, who lives in his mother‘s garage. Plus this amount represents a mere fraction of the cost of law school, and you will not need to piss away three years of your life.


  1. I abhor violence. I really do. And I remember shedding several tears for the 168 people that died on April 19, 1995 in the Oklahoma Cty bombing. And yet when I read this entry it made my blood boil. How can these filthy schools continue to exist by charging this type of tuition money? If you ask me, this is as criminal as what Timothy McVeigh did. Carrying $100K of non-dischargeable student loan debt with the limited legal job prospects in Oklahoma is a tragedy. Nando, I have followed your blog for a year now. You have truly opened my eyes about these schools, many of which I have never heard of before. This school is an example that the ABA will accredit anything that has a stack of law books, rooms, chairs, desks, "professors" and of course a fax machine.

  2. "This school is an example that the ABA will accredit anything that has a stack of law books, rooms, chairs, desks, "professors" and of course a fax machine."

    I have my doubts about that. However, I do think the ABA will accredit ANYTHING that pays ABA fees. The rest is optional.

  3. I can't see the justification for this place give the fact OU's Law School is just down the road in Norman, Oklahoma. But since there are nearly as many law schools in America as service stations, what the hell, go for it. I should have built one of these places.


    I take exception. The Bidet, even though a little dusty, gives OCU School of Law at least a little class.

    Very Continental.

  5. This school is a true shithole. I've at least heard of most of the schools you profile. At first, I was like, 'Did he mean Oklahoma STate?'

    Now, who the fuck would pay $30K per year to attend this school. If you live in OK and want to practice in OK (for whatever reason), go to OU. There you can pay OK resident tuition ($17K or $18K) and go to the highest ranked law school in the state.


    I take exception. The Bidet, even though a little dusty, gives OCU School of Law at least a little class.

    Very Continental.

    February 6, 2011 12:54 PM"

    At the very least, given the prices being charged, I hope we are talkin' warm water here.

  7. Where do you find these schools? Or I guess I should ask the ABA how they approve schools. People that attend schools like this basically have no shot of Biglaw. If they are taking out big loans for law school how are they supposed to make enought to pay them off?

  8. Whoa, a shout-out to Eureka College in the middle of an entry. Nice. This is also hilarious:

    "The school is located in Oklahoma City. That’s the good news."

    You get to pay 30k+ a year to live in Oklahoma City. Not Dallas or Kansas City, but Oklahoma City. That's the good news.

    At least if you go to Texas Southern or Loyola-New Orleans or one of the Florida schools or Golden Gate or U. of DC, you might have a good time during law school. Oklahoma City? Really?

  9. Real classy. Shitting on the grave of a dead man. He's dead. What does he have to do with law school anyway?

  10. Yea, Nando - stick to law schools. Republicans love your blog too!

  11. The real question is-- will the bidet feature at Oklahoma City University SOL help pull it up into the stratospheric and coveted Third Tier of American Law Schools from its current fourth tier position?

  12. Unless you're from OK, why the hell would you want to go to law school in this state? I agree with the poster above that anyone who graduates from this school has virtually zero chance of landing a big law job. It just ain't happenin'. You tell me, why would some high falutin partner in a swank NYC law firm (or any other major metropolitan city on the coasts) want to hire someone from Oklahoma City University of Law. I hope you like Oklahoma, because that's about the only area where you even have a chance at landing a job coming from this crap hole.

  13. To 6:03 am and 11:06 am,

    I simply pointed out that Reagan essentially tripled the national debt, in eight years. That is one hell of an accomplishment! I certainly don’t discriminate in my comments. For instance, I refer to Barack Obama as Pussy Boy. This idiot wants EVERYONE to “get more education” – without so much as alluding to how people are supposed to pay for this product.

    I accessed this chart, via Subprime’s blog. As you can see, the national debt went from about $900 billion in 1980 to more than $2.5 trillion in 1980.

    On September 1980, the deficit stood at $907 billion. In September 1980, it had eclipsed $2.6 trillion.

    Here is the conservative Washington Post’s take on his legacy:

    “The fiscal shift in the Reagan years was staggering. In January 1981, when Reagan declared the federal budget to be "out of control," the deficit had reached almost $74 billion, the federal debt $930 billion. Within two years, the deficit was $208 billion. The debt by 1988 totaled $2.6 trillion. In those eight years, the United States moved from being the world's largest international creditor to the largest debtor nation.”

    “While conservatives today celebrate Ronald Reagan's 100th birthday as a moment to recall the achievements of Reagan's presidency, one part of the Reagan myth, that he was a fiscal conservative who helped show the USA the road to prosperity through a leaner government, isn't supported by the facts.

    Instead, history shows that Ronald Reagan reversed a long trend of reducing the national debt as a percentage of GDP, which had been lowered by every previous president (except Gerald Ford) since the end of World War II.

    Ronald Reagan exploded the federal debt, eventually to over a trillion dollars, by cutting taxes while demanding that the nation fund a huge expansion of the military. Even the Wall Street Journal at the time was aware of the unsound nature of this Republican deficit-spending scheme. They and other newspapers warned of the "baleful effects of big [government] deficits."

    6:03, who cares if the pile of filthy garbage is rotting in a wooden coat?! He spent this country into financial hell. The rest of us, including subsequent generations, will bear the burden of his idiotic spending policies. The fact that he is dead does not mean that this pig is above reproach.


    This link is also available on the main entry. As you can see, for the 2005-2006 school year, this commode awarded full-tuition scholarships to 0.1% of its students. However, the dumpster did hand out full-tuition plus a stipend to 1.9% of students. And 6.6 percent received half-tuition scholarships to attend this pile of excrement.

    “OCU Law was also ranked #104 overall according to the 2010 ranking by the AALS. The IRLG ranked OCU Law #52 overall in its 2009 ranking of law schools, based upon the percentage of graduates who pass the bar exam.”

    Wow! The American Association of Law Schools ranked this school as the 104th greatest, most amazing and fantastic law school in the land. And the Internet Legal Research Group listed this school as the 52nd most phenomenal law school, in the U.S.

    Look at this cosmopolitan school. They are gracious enough to offer a Certificate in American Law to Chinese students and lawyers.


    Experience the unique culture and heritage of the State of Oklahoma. Numerous outings are planned including trips to local museums, a Native American Pow Pow, an Oklahoma City Redhawks baseball game, an evening in the downtown entertainment district Bricktown, and more.”

    This is TTT behavior. For instance, Third Tier Drake offers its first-year victims a trial practicum. The school hosts an actual trial, with real Iowa lawyers and judges. In fact, this event is taking place, as I write this comment. I am sure many students are already bored to tears.

    Third Tier Drake also provides one day out of the year, where first-year students are shuttled to the state supreme court. The commode also offers a mandatory tour through the state legislature. Because nothing is more exciting than watching a bunch of bureaucrats and elected idiots in action, right?!?!

    Some idiot wants the scoop on OCU Law. Look at this brutally honest answer, from user “ari20dal7”:

    “third best school in Oklahoma.....kinda tells the story. It's not a joke in OKC, but OU is just going to kill OCU most of the time. I don't know what jobs people think they're going to get coming from OCU, but I'd wager that two thirds of the class struggles to find any legal job of any kind coming from OCU. If you're wanting to be in Oklahoma, do what you have to do to get into OU or get a big unconditional scholarship from OCU or Tulsa.”

  15. nando said:

    "Some idiot wants the scoop on OCU Law."

    This school is a pile of shit. You've established that. Does that mean someone should grab a pooper scooper? $33K a year to attend this place. This is criminal.

  16. This is where Marcus Dupree would go to law school if he could do everything all over again. Just to fuck OU and Switzer.

  17. Hey Nando:

    Villanova law school got caught red handed giving inflated LSAT scores to the ABA in order to increase it's rankings with US News & World Report:

    Do you think other law schools might do the same with EMPLOYMENT DATA? (sarcasm)

  18. I think what happened at Villanova Law presents a great case for its current students and past alums to seek legal redress for fraud. The school flat out lied, distorted GPA and LSAT scores to get into the shitty second tier of the USNWR. This incident will ensure that Villanova drops to the bottom of the second tier or even the scatalogically vaunted third tier.

    By the way, I don't buy the story that the Dean of Villanova decided to come clean. I suspect a whistleblower was about to come forward with this story and the Dean figured by disclosing it himself he could be in better damage control mode. If you think what Villanova did is unique, think again. To keep this relevant to this post about OKCU, I heard it has the top rated bovine meconium law program in the nation.

  19. I hear OCU ranks pretty high in equine excrement law too. Well worth the cost of $33,000, I'll bet.

  20. Welcome to hell, kiddies. Take out more loans (that can't be discharged) and enter a shrinking job market. Sounds like a great recipe for success.

  21. I'm really confused.

    I've always lived in America, and have seen Bidets before, but I was always a little afraid of them, because I never knew if they were some kind of a drinking fountain, or for peeing.

    If the latter, why don't they have a lid? (just in case they get clogged and you don't have to look)

    If the former, where is the Dixie Cup dispenser?

    With all that tuition money, you'd think that cheap Oaklahoma Law School would spring for one.

  22. STOP THE MOTHERFUCKING PRESSES. Jack Whittington transferred from the No. 2 Law School in the land (according to the newly released rankings below) to that unknown cesspool known as Tulsa Law School. I am sure he regrets following his "sweetie" now.

  23. Muhahahha. Cooley's press release is funnier than an article from The Onion.



    Let’s take a deeper look at this TLS thread. On August 2, 2008, TLS user “imwithhappy” wrote this comment:

    “OCU is a diploma mill. I got a 70% scholarship to go there and I still chose Arkansas at full price (i live in Norman). I got waitlisted at OU. I have several friends that are attorneys at mid-sized firms in OKC and asked each of them the same question: If you are hiring a new associate and you have an OCU grad and an Arkansas grad, who do you hire? All four attorneys said Arkansas without question. OU would obviously be above OCU and Arkansas. OCU is expensive and all the 3L's I talked to at open house didn't have ANY job offers yet.”

    Isn’t that nice? Firms in Oklahoma City would rather hire students from the (out-of-state) 86th-ranked University of Arkansas Sewer of Law than from this local fourth tier trash can. What does that tell you?!?!

    On the same TLS thread, a user going by handle “SBL” made this retort, after a shill attempted to defend this stale turd:

    “I understand your point that USN&WR rankings can be a bit restrictive, but that's life. The fact is that those "rankings" determine which "employers" will offer you a "job" - which is sorta the whole reason you're probably going to law school in the first place. Unless you are very wealthy or get a full ride, I can't imagine this school is really worth going to.”

    Check out this reply, from user “blackacre”:

    “The school is just SUPER expensive. I don't see any benefit to going to this school rather than putting in some extra work on the LSAT and opening up some more options. Schools like this are doing a disservice to the profession and its students.”

    From accountholder “Helmholtz”:

    “It would be difficult to justify any tuition to a school like OCU. It seems widely regarded as one of the worst 20 law schools in the country. All you need to get into OU is a decent GPA and an LSAT in the high 150's / low 160's. It would be a much better option.”

    Does anyone still think it would be a good idea to attend this overpriced piece of trash?!?!

  25. Nando, aren't you going to cover Cooley's meteoric rise to the number 2 spot on their latest rankings? It would appear that the acquisition of the Lugnuts stadium helped catapult them on the heels of Harvard Law School. Imagine if they put a jumbotron in that stadium. I predict they will be number 1 in next year's rankings. Who knew a stadium could affect law school rankings.

    Side Note: Cooley's rankings eschews subjective factors such as reputation among judges and practitioners but bases its rankings on its faculty's subjective (and highly delusional) opinion of Cooley.

  26. I heard about that rise in Cooley's ranking. If I recall total enrollment and total minority enrollment are big factors in the Cooley system. Can anyone even take these assholes seriously with these rankings? I mean, everyone who has looked at ls knows the school is a piece of shit.

  27. shithole schools are for people who dont have academic prowess or money or connections who want to be a solo practitioner or start a firm with other shithole graduates with no job prospects.

    Where the school is ranked means bumpkiss. Whether its a good idea to take 100k plus in loans and then invest in opening a law practice is another debate, but all you are buying with this and most law schools is the chance to open a business and make it. Its more riskier then the guy who borrows the same money to open a KFC franchise when his work experience is limited to building kitchen cabinets, but people take risks all the time.

    Any school outside the connection factories in the top 10 are all pieces of shit. Would you rather go to number 30 ranked or number 200 everything else being equal. I doubt your job prospects are any different.

    Kids will always take the crap law school risk because what are the alternatives? Managing a Wendy's? Working in Collections for some corporation where your co workers are based in Bangladesh? That really helps your self esteem.

    Law school may make you worse off, but no risk no reward and most ventures fail. The approach should be to get the actual employment statistics of these schools and post and comment on them. How many recent grads are practicing and how many are selling shoes if they have jobs at all? What are the salaries? That will give us the truth as to the worthiness of the risk relative to any other approaches a college graduate might take to make some real money.

    Law like everything is lies and marketing all done in an attempt to eliminate the middle class in this country. It has not changed and the only people who are pissed are the kids that failed at the risk and the blue bloods who graduate from top schools and know that being a lawyer no longer means crap to your average person.

  28. Nando:

    Even Cooley has a ranking, and your blog/website still doesn't. What kind of stinking toilet is Third Tier Reality? You gotta come up some rankings!

  29. anyone ever thought of ranking the scam blogs?

  30. Although it no longer exists, Big Debt, Small Law was probably one of the best scamblogs of all time. Reading L4L's captivating entries brought the horrors of law to life.

  31. Thank you Nando for finally spotlighting OCU! I will openly admit I was suckered into this shit hole of a school. I'm an underemployed OCU Law grad with $243,000 in debt who just completed my employment survey for the lovely "Personal and Career Development Center" at OCU Law(ohh good 'ol PCDC - you should check this piece of crap department out.. I'd like to see how much they get paid) So on this wonderfully designed employment survey you got the option of selecting employed or volunteering... Yeah, no option for the $500 a month Americorps position I'm working in b/c nobody wants to hire an overeducated JD who actually graduated in the top of her class, with honors and certificates in ADR and Health Law. Next, you got to select salary - $30,000-$40,000, $40,000-50,000 and so on.... highly accurate.. I'm certain the ABA would be pleased...

    Honestly, the education I received at OCU was fair, but everything else I got out of law school was from my own hardwork and determination. OCU did shit to help me find an internship or a job.. ohhh wait.. JAG Corps and McAfee & Taft might interview the top 2 kids in the class but forget the rest of us retards who got screwed by the "Mandatory C Curve" at this shithole. Which leads to my next rant- OCU likes to lure students in with scholarship offers but fails to tell them about the mandatory C curve - 50% of students must receive lower than a C in all first year courses. This is so students 1) can't transfer because they are guaranteed to have below a 3.0 GPA and 2) lose their scholarships. What a scam if I ever saw one! They fail to mention this little C curve anywhere in their prospective student materials or presentations.

    Ohhh and your figure on tuition and fees are wwaayyyyy off... Tution is over $1,000 per credit hour and fees for everything from parking to paper run you another couple grand a year. My 3L year ran me $64,720! Fees for graduation, fees to be on a moot court team, fees to enroll in a directed research course, fees to clean the shit out of the toilets!
    It was nice to take a break from studying for the Missouri bar exam I'm taking next week. Hoping the job prospects in Kansas City are brighter, but then I guess I'm competing with the fine grads from University of Missouri-Kansas City....
    I'll remain anonymous because I'm certain OCU's little PR trolls are scouring the internet and would just love to tarnish what reputation I have left. Can't have much of a reputation after being almost $300K in debt and are making $6K a year... thank you OCU law!!!!!

  32. I have read many of your "ratings," and have come to the conclusion that you are either: someone who flunked out of law school, or someone who could not get into law school. You are a bitter failure, who obviously has way too much time on his hands. To make yourself feel better, you shit on every law school you possibly can, even though you probably know little to nothing about law school, considering the fact that you probably never attended one. The fact is, you are not smart or hard working enough to get into law school, and you probably work at Wall Mart. Get a life loser. Just because you are a failure, does not mean everyone else is too. You are the exception, not the rule.

  33. To the rancid pile of waste who posted at 12:13 pm,

    Would you care to back up your moronic assumptions? Or are you more comfortable spewing nonsense?! Anyway, you are such a waste of space, you felt the need to post the exact same garbage on three separate posts. I suppose it would be difficult to post anything of substance with an IQ 0f 74.

    @ the OCU Law grad,

    If you would like to, you can contact Cryn Johannsen at All Education Matters, Inc. Her email address is I am sure that she would be interested in hearing about your situation. It is your prerogative not to contact her, of course.

    Also, feel free to post comments on this blog, any time. They do not need to relate to OCU Law. The fact remains that we must inform those who have their hearts set on practicing law about the realities of American "legal education." (Those lost, ignorant souls - such as the pig who posted at 12:13 pm - are beyond saving. They are INTENT on going to law school - regardless of the odds. However, we can reach those who are reasonable.)

    In the end, we need more people to tell their stories, so that others are not taken in by the industry's lies. The sad reality is that many young people will be happy to attend TTTs and TTTTs. After all, they feel that they will be the exception to the rule.

    The moron above got it wrong, i.e. "You are the exception, not the rule." Apparently, the functioning illiterate believes that if you say something enough times it becomes true.

  34. There are a few additional facts about OCU law you all left out. Dean Lawrence "Larry" Hellman touts himself as a "legal ethics" expert and writes columns in local newspapers about the topic. Seems like Larry forgot the first rule of legal ethics...the appearance of impropriety is just as bad as if the imporperiety actually happened. Ignoring this rule, while Larry was a professor of legal ethics he met his wife Gaye who was a student of his and now accompanies him to all OCU parties and gets wasted. Then, while Larry was dean his eldest son, ELI HELLMAN, was a student at the school...and my gosh, he graduated at the TOP OF HIS CLASS...and ended up working for the US patent office n Washington until recently when, for some unknown reason, son ELi had to return permanently to Oklahoma.

    But that is not where it ends folks. A few years ago an African American female professor at the school, Danne Johnson, filed a lawsuit against Larry Hellman, claiming gender discrimination, violation of the equal pay act, and alleged that Larry Hellman along with the University general counsel tried to rig the university grievance procedure in their favor when Prof. Johnson filed a grievance against Larry..which led her to sue the bastards! Not long afterward, the case was settled and Larry Hellman is now "retiring" while Prof. Johnson stays on. Wonder how much this commode paid Prof. Johnson for legal ethics dean Larry's indiscretions and hypocrisy?

  35. Nice juicy tidbits, guys.

    This associate prof got the best of the dean? Nice.

    "OCU LAW Dean Lawrence K. Hellman, the longest-serving dean in the law school’s history, today announced that he intends to leave the deanship at the end of the current academic year on June 30, 2011.

    Hellman, who made the announcement in a letter to the law school community, will return to teaching and scholarship at OCU LAW, where he has been a member of the faculty since 1977. He became dean in 1998."

  36. If you google Danne Johnson Discrimination Lawsuit you will get a bunch of stuff on her lawsuit against Dean Larry Hellman, including even the actual lawsuit and the allegations involved. It is a fun read. I wonder if the huge settlement they must have paid Professor Johnson led to Hellman's resignation?

  37. By the way, if you did graduate from Drake, did you pass the bar? Doubtful. The fact of the matter is that you were never qualified to be a lawyer in the first place. With your 150 LSAT score and 2.5 UGPA, you were delusional to believe that you had what it took to be a good attorney, and this was probably evidenced by your many failing attempts to pass the bar exam. Not everyone is intelligent enough to be a lawyer, and you are a prime example of an idiot who was not qualified to attend law school in the first place, and somehow earned a degree at a no name school no one has ever heard of. Sadly enough, you failed the bar a few months later. Maybe you retook it again, and failed once more. But eventually you quit, became depressed, angry, and bitter, moved back home with your mother, and invented this pile of shit you call your blog. Face it man, you just are not intelligent enough to be a lawyer.

  38. @ 1:55 pm,

    I realize that your IQ does not exceed room temperature. However, do you think you could manage to write something truthful, relevant or new?!

  39. Not that this helps the argument, but most of the people graduating from OU are usually in the same shitty job-less prospect situation as OCU grads. I've worked for several firms (not big law), and haven't ran across any that discriminate just because someone is an OCU student. In fact, I was hired for my last job as a replacement for an OU student that was getting fired because she sucked. (BTW - I am an OCU law student)

    The last thing I would want to do is back up this overpriced school (nor refute any of your argument. However, I would add that if you get a good enough scholarship where it would be cheaper for you to go to OCU, it would be a more viable option than just choosing based off which school is ranked better (assuming that you are staying in the area).

  40. I think you're an angry, pissed off law school drop-out who had shit grades and couldn't find a job. Stop trying to bring everyone else down idiot

  41. That's right!..i agree with nando...good post!...Oklahoma City door

  42. To the piece of trash who posted on April 8, 2011 at 8:02 pm,

    I graduated from Third Tier Drake, dumbass. I also received a full-tuition scholarship to attend this toilet. By the way, cretin: I am trying to help others avoid financially ruining their lives.

    If YOU want to go to law school - in spite of the shrinking job market and skyrocketing tuition - then go ahead, moron. Just don't cry that you were not warned about the situation before.

  43. I went to OCU Law School. It is overpriced. You are right when you say its highly unlikely to get a NYC job. At best, if you are in the top 5% you can get a job at one of the bigger law firms in OKC.

    For the rest of the crowd, your success is based entirely on your ability to make it yourself. Most all will work for another lawyer, hopefully more than 25k, and top out at 30-35k. some a little more. But for the shrewder and street smart ones, not necessarily GPA or test smart, you can make a pretty good living and hit some nice ones. But it really is up to the individual to make the OCU law degree and law license work profitably.

  44. Super blog and nice writings

    Thanks for all posts

    Thanks in advance for coming posts...

    Keep writing...............


    Biz and Legis
    Document Review Attorneys

  45. FYI...July 2011 Bar Results- OCU Class of 2011 had a higher pass rate than the 2011 Class of OU or TU!!!!!!!!!!

    Some people go to law school because they have passion to be a lawyer and they love the law. To everyone on here saying that we're all idiots for going to law school (specifically OCU Law)- I'm living my dream and all my friends from law school have a fulfilling career as well. Clearly you're having issues in your own life/career. Law school isn't right for everyone- I think you should be really sure practicing law is what you want to do before you invest this kind of time and money. If it's "boring and hard" then clearly it's not for you.

    I went to OCU Law and yes it is very expensive. I, along with the mass majority of my class, passed the bar and had employment as an attorney within months of graduating. I don't know why people say if you go here you won't find a job or make any money. That's just not true. In fact, I don't know one person who ended up having to do something else because they couldn't find a job as a lawyer. Granted- if you want to work for a big firm in NYC, Boston, etc then yeah OCU Law is NOT the way to go, but if you plan to stay in Oklahoma the school has a good reputation and it's not any more difficult to get a job than if you had graduated from one of the other law schools. A lot of people were talking about OU Law and couldn't imagine why people would go to OCU instead. 1. It's in Norman- I lived north of Edmond and had no desire to drive over an hour to class everyday. 2. They have no part-time or sunset schedule- I worked my first year so I needed a part-time schedule. After that I went to school full-time, but I didn't have to be there till after 3 pm. I thought about transferring after I swtiched to full-time, but I had no desire of getting up a 6 am everyday since OU only has a day schedule. Plus, I liked being at OCU. It has a small school feel, and I enjoyed my professors.

    OCU Law has it's issues but it definitely doesn't deserve all the negative feedback it's getting here. Look up the resumes of all the professors- it's pretty impressive.

  46. Yes, stick up for this poor victim law school, September 19, 2011 10:32 am.

    Go to the main entry, bitch. Law School Numbers showed that the 83.9% of this fourth tier trash pit’s Class of 2005 was employed within nine months of graduation. That was before the economy went to hell, correct?!?! (By the way, expect at least several more years of general high unemployment, moron.)

    However, you want people to take your UNSUBSTANTIATED word, over the figures published by LSN?!?! To wit:

    "I don't know why people say if you go here you won't find a job or make any money. That's just not true. In fact, I don't know one person who ended up having to do something else because they couldn't find a job as a lawyer."

    Establish some credibility, cockroach, before posting on this blog entry again. By the way, liar: I never said "If you attend this school, you will not find a job." You are making a stupid, strong-man argument.

    NALP and the ABA permit law schools to count JDs working as barristas or school teachers as "employed." However, a law degree is not required for those positions. There is NO WAY in hell that all JDs, from this dungpit, are working as lawyers. Perhaps, you should clarify your statement, by telling us that "everyone [you] know" consists of ten people. If you persist in being dishonest, then you will have zero credibility.

    1. And if you insist on attacking people, I will murder you. Idiot.

    2. To the piece of trash who posted yesterday at 5:41 pm,

      In that case, I will start by attacking you, pathetic cockroach. Provide me with a cogent argument as to why law school is a wise investment for most college graduates. Make sure to furnish actual proof, Bitch.

      If you cannot handle that simple task, mental midget, then you are wasting your time here. Start by killing yourself, ball-less wonder. You are dismissed.

  47. I am an OCU Law grad, and no doubt it is a major waste of money. I worked in politics full time before going to law school and did well enough on the LSAT to get into OU, but I had a good job that I didn't want to give up, a wife and a mortgage, so I chose OCU's evening program. It cost me $100k in loans. If I had to do it over, I would just get an MBA. I make $80K/year now working in politics, but I don't practice law. If I decide to practice law, I will have to take a major pay cut. Law school is a bad investment even if you know for sure you want to be an attorney. If you don't know or are just continuing your education because you can't find a job with your undergrad degree, DON'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!

  48. I went to OCU Law School class of '77. Graduated 25 years ago. Many of my classmates have gone on to become exceptional lawyers. As for me; I'm a 53 year old retired multimillionaire personal injury trial lawyer. It's what you do with your education that's important. I refused to give up on my dreams and OCU gave me a chance to prove myself. I have tried many cases against the Big Firm Yale, Cornell, Penn boys. Book smarts ain't people smarts. They can keep their pedigree, they worked for it. As for me, "money can't buy happiness" that's bullshit, it sure as hell does!! I'd post my name but cyber space is a MOTHER F%€£ER..

  49. To the mental midget who posted on October 10, 2012 at 5:16 pm,

    The legal field has become much more glutted in the last 35 years, waterhead. Law schools continue to produce FAR TOO MANY grads for the available number of attorney positions.

    From 1980-1981 to 2009-2010 - a span of 30 years - ABA-accredited law schools pumped out 1,161,863 graduates. Do you understand the implications, cockroach?!?!

    Automation, predictive coding, and outsourcing of doc review have also decimated the U.S. lawyer job market, Dumbass. You also conveniently forgot to mention that you graduated at the peak of the regulatory state.

    Lastly, law student indebtedness is reaching new peaks, due to SKYROCKETING TUITION, bitch. Provide me with your tuition rate in 1977, ass-clown. Compare that to today's charges - before you flap your gums about "hard work."

    Take a hard look at the USN&WR indebtedness rankings for the Class of 2011. See those ridiculous debt figures, cretin?!?! What was your student debt load, in 1977? DO NOT attribute your low-to-nonexistent debt level to your “intelligence” or “diligence.” At the current tuition rates, only those from ultra-wealthy families could graduate without student debt.

    In 1977, one could attend a fourth tier trash can - and still make it as a personal injury lawyer. Now, recent grads need to compete against PI mills that can blow their asses out of the water - with their marketing budgets alone. Plus, tort reform makes it harder to pull down million dollar verdicts.

    If you have any balls, then post your name in your reply. After all, you are supposedly retired from legal practice.

    1. I am going to beat you to death so you can finally have some peace. Your parents have offered to pay me millions, yet I will do it for free.

    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    3. To the pussy who posted at 5:41, 5:46 and 5:48 yesterday,

      YOU need to get a life, Bitch. It must be tough not having any balls, brains, or backbone. When you are done getting pounded from behind by your abusive boyfriend this evening, you should ask him to strangle you to death. Who knows? He might be happy to put your out of your misery, mental deficient.

  50. I am a 1990 graduate of OCU law school. The law firm where I worked as an Intern offered me 24 K a year when I passed the Oklahoma Bar Exam. I went out on my own and earned 40K in the first year with 20K in accounts receivables. I resigned from the OK Bar in 2000. I still owe 90K in student loans and I make more now in 2012 as a paralegal than any new graduate from OCU in law firms. I could have spared the debt and gone straight to paralegal school. OCU Law School and the sick system it supports SUCKS you dry!!!!

  51. i shredded my diploma and bar certificate. made more $$ in real estate and stocks. all is not lost, ocu prepared me on how to handle fiscal cliff and expiring estate tax exemptions. can you say GIFTING? good luck students, ur screwed.

  52. I am an attorney in Texas contemplating suicide because I went to OCU Law and racked up so much f*&king debt. 170K...after this shithole sucked me dry. I make $100K per year, but I've lost so much of my life. My relationship is in shambles. My soul hurts every month I make my payments on time. No house, but I have a mortgage payment. When I think of how naïve I must have been to sign up this debt, I resent myself. I feel fairly well educated, but honestly most of the education I received had nothing to do with the teachers. If you know how to read and think, and have money for text books, you can pass. I promise you that the teachers in 2005-2008 have nothing to do with skills set. I'm praying for debt relief from the government. I am praying for a revolution of likeminded individuals. Can we march on Washington? My gun is in the drawer at home, cocked, loaded, and ready to go... Don't go to law school. This is my last contribution to society. Good bye.

    1. 7:46, I'm not sure if you will come back and read the replies to your post. But if you see this, please talk to someone. Please talk to a doctor, a counselor, or someone you trust. They really can help.


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