Tuesday, February 15, 2011

Fourth Tier Pile of Industrial Waste: Willamette University College of Law



Tuition: For the 2010-2011 school year, a full-time student at Willamette Law will pay $31,050 in tuition. Books and the SBA fee bring school-related costs to $32,590. Remember, this is an “investment” in oneself - and (supposedly) will make one more “marketable.”

Total Cost of Attendance: The commodes estimates that living expenses, i.e. medical, transportation, insurance, room and board, will amount to $14,510 for the nine-month academic year. This would bring the estimated COA to $47,100 for the 2010-2011 academic year.

Seeing that actual law students will have living expenses for twelve months, and not nine months, we will determine a more accurate number. The lazy hags at Willamette did not provide a breakdown of costs, so twelve month living expenses will total $19,347. This would bring the more-accurate, estimated total COA to $50,397.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+8

Ranking: This school is pricey, but its sterling reputation will excuse the high cost of admission, right?!?! Well, according to US News & World Report, Willamette University School of Law is a decrepit fourth tier piece of trash. But at least it is located in lovely Salem, Oregon. Take some solace in that fact.

http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/careers/students/statistics.php

Supposed Employment Placement Rate and Salary Info: According to “Career Services,” 95 percent of the Class of 2009 secured employment within nine months of graduation. This pertains to those JDs known to be seeking employment. I suppose those from wealthy families or those who have given up hope could not be considered, in this calculation.

The school also maintains that 49% of this class - or at least those known to be looking for work - landed in private practice. The published salary range is $33,000-$110,000 - with a median salary of $60K.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

Law School Indebtedness: According to the Webmaster at US News, “Due to the website redesign some links got lost. U.S. News is in the process of restoring these links and plan to have this back up sometime this week.” Just in case they cannot restore the link or do not re-post the figures, I will look for my hard copy.

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/930/386/2009-930386972-05e43dd9-9.pdf

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Let’s see how well the professoriate at this fourth tier waste pile is doing. For this info, we head to page 34 of WillameTTTTe Univer$iTTTTy’s 2009 Form 990.

Dean Symeon Symeonides “earned” $321,784 in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2008. Next, we see that “Roderick and Carol Wendt Chair in Business Law and Director of the Law and Business Program” Peter V. Letsou made $245,916 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the same school year - while “professor of law” Kathy Graham raked in a mere $232,742.

The school offered full-tuition scholarships to 0.0% of its students, for the 2005-2006 academic year. Furthermore, only 10.6% received half-tuition scholarships. It will be interesting to see the law school indebtedness for this school’s recent grads - if USN&WR can be bothered to retrieve this info and publish the chart.

http://www.law.stanford.edu/publications/projects/lrps/pdf/lomiowayne_rp4.pdf

On page 13, you can see that the commode had the 7th best Dispute Resolution program - in 2006! This may come in handy, when - as a WillameTTTTe JD - you are negotiating with your landlord to give you another week to come up with rent, and request that he lower the late fees.

http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/innovative/certificates/index.php

Look at these embarrassing garbage programs. You can earn a certificate in "Sustainability Law" or in "International and Comparative Law." That will surely set you apart from the legions of other job applicants, right?!?!

http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/journals/sportslaw/index.php

However, if you truly want to distinguish yourself as an elite student, make sure that you write onto the prestigious Willamette Sports Law Journal.

http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/journals/wjildr/index.php

If you prefer that people line up to buy your drinks, laugh at your jokes, and that beautiful woman faint when you enter a room, become a student editor at the Willamette Journal of International Law and Dispute Resolution.

Conclusion: This school is a true diploma mill. Going back to the employment figures, apparently no one from the Class of 2009 landed Biglaw. The school’s cost almost requires that one earn large sums of money - simply to make a positive return on investment. You do not need to incur an additional $100K-$130K of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt to land a job making $35K-$55K. As hard as it is to believe, some young workers who exhibit initiative and a strong work product are making such sums, without a law degree!

48 comments:

  1. On the video game Oregon Trail, the Willamette Valley was where you "won" the game if you forged the rivers, avoided typhoid fever, and were able to shoot a buffalo or two.

    Now we have it backwards. You get to the Willamette Valley and your odds of getting dysentery skyrocket. Kids, think long and hard before taking a step past Fort Laramie.

    And 0.0% full tuition scholarships? That tells me that they're not even trying to move out of the bottom.

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  2. Hey, Willamette's real close to Oregon's State Capitol! You can see legislators on the street! A guaranteed path to a high-paying job!

    Problem is, the high tuition might force you to cut down on your meth use. From PBS:

    "Still, there was one area in which I could be wholeheartedly proud of her: Candy never let go of her desire to be a lawyer. Specifically, she wanted to be a juvenile-defense lawyer, to help kids coming from troubled families like ours. So no matter how messed up she got, she always managed to shake herself clean in time to maintain the grades she needed to achieve that goal. She applied to Willamette University College of Law, in Salem, Ore., and was accepted to its Class of 1986. Once there, she also finally got sober, figuring that she wouldn't be much help as a lawyer if she was drunk or scrounging for drugs.

    Candy would be clean for 15 years. Then in 1998, she started slipping. Unfortunately, meth caught her."

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  3. To be fair, sturgeon fishing on the Columbia and Willamette rivers is amazing. That should make up for the tuition debt.

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  4. "To be fair, sturgeon fishing on the Columbia and Willamette rivers is amazing. That should make up for the tuition debt."

    Ooops - too late! Two weeks ago:

    "Today, the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife is expected to approve a plan to sharply clamp down on sport and commercial sturgeon fishing on the lower Columbia. On Tuesday, agency directors from both states are likely to follow. That decision would be the tightest-ever limits -- 17,000 -- and it marks a fourth straight year for reduced sturgeon fishing on the lower Columbia, with the new limits expected to stay for three years"

    Did I mention Willamette is **real** close to the State Capitol? And given the State of Oregon's financial problems, I'm sure they're about to hire a raft of new lawyers!

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  5. Go to any state capitol in the union. You'll see buses of schoolchildren depart and unload so the little ones can see the democratic process in action. They might even get to see a real lawmaker and get to shake his hand. Wowee!!

    Then outside the floor, you'll get to see lots of people lined up outside waiting to meet their legislator. Oh boy! I'll bet they think their gonna get to speak to him and he'll even listen to them. Heh. If your lucky, you'll get to see Joe Citizen take Junior to see their representative. Makes my eyes squint every time but maybe you have the stomach for this silly nonsense.

    If you don't toss yourself down a flight of stairs and you stick around long enough, you might even see a few real heavyweights in the wings. I say might because these people have constant access to the lawmakers. They can call and get him right away. If they miss him, they'll catch up with him later at the Lion's club. Or have lunch with him. They don't need to show up. Anyway, you'll notice these people because of their nice clothes, crisp cuffs, and $200 haircuts. If they're a real badass, they might show up in jeans, cowboy boots, and a fine mustache. Doesn't really matter. They'll probablt be surrounded by young lackeys. But wait. Notice how they get to talk to the good ol' senator for 20 whole, entire minutes. (The throngs of poor fucks will maybe get 30 seconds with the senator. Its more likely he'll spot you, make eye contact and waltz back in to make another floor vote.) The senator is even laughing at the guy's jokes. Okay, okay, wait for it. Wait for it. Here it comes. The pat on the back and asking how Stewie is doing in his little league. Has the wife had a chance to make any of her fantastic apple pie this year? How are young Jillian's piano lessons going?

    See how the process works, fellas? This means that Willamette could have its law college in the senate chamber and it wouldn't make a difference. The game is rigged. If you aren't born in the club it is about 99% likely you'll never be part of it.

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  6. Anybody here know someone that went to this school or do you just want to rely on nando's analysis?

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    Replies
    1. My daughter is currently attending Willamette and I completely regret sending her there. For the most part, there are some wonderful staff, the campus is gorgeous. But if you are not white... it can be hell. I will be removing her and sending her to a school where there is a diverse student body, and the campus security is better.

      Delete
    2. I currently attend WUCL, and I have been very happy with my entire experience. Sure, people pan the school online, but as a graduating 3L I know that most of my classmates either have jobs lined up or have good reason to feel confident that they will be employed shortly after graduation.

      The starting salaries are low for WUCL grads because the legal market in Oregon, and especially in Portland, pays low wages compared to other comparably sized legal markets. For those students who go to higher paying legal markets (L.A., Chicago, Seattle, D.C., N.Y., Texas, etc.) their salaries are correspondingly higher. Just as a recent Harvard grad who wants to come to Portland can expect to make considerably less than he or she otherwise would. Along those same lines, L&C's environmental law program attracts students from around the country, many of whom then leave Oregon after graduation for legal markets that pay more. Which explains why L&C students appear to earn more than WUCL students. From my friendships at both schools, on an apples-to-apples basis, graduates appear to make the same from either school.

      My classmates have worked at some pretty incredible places while in school. In fact, due to the school's small size and strong ties with the legal communities, I'd venture to say that higher percentage of law students at WUCL have had prestigious internships, externships, or clerkships than at many, if not most, other schools.

      Also because of the school's small size, a higher percentage of students are able to compete in Moot Court or write for a journal. To those on the outside looking in, that could seem to indicate lower standards for those activities. For students, however, it absolutely adds value to the education the school provides - and resume value.

      I am not surprised that there are few WUCL grads who go on to Biglaw. I think that very few students at WUCL are interested in seeking a job that requires 2400 billable hours. After all, most of the students I know came to law school in Oregon because the state, as a whole, values work life balance differently than most other places, and because the outdoor recreational opportunities are amazing. Let us not forget, this is the state of Portlandia.

      I am shocked that there are security concerns for any of the WUCL students of any race, and terribly heartbroken to hear that one of my fellow students has experienced any kind of racially motivated animus. WUCL definitely does not have a diverse campus, but I have never seen anything other than inclusion and friendship among all students who go here. To know that a student has had a bad experience saddens me. I'm confident most other students here would feel the same.

      Delete
  7. I know many people who attended this piece of trash, none of whom have real careers even 10 years out. Actually, all of the Oregon law schools really suck. Oregon law firms pay really low (the "view tax") but UO, Lewis & Clark, and Willamette's tuition just goes up and up. And Willamette isn't the only place handing out those "sustainability" certificates (WTF?) like candy--UO has one too and I wouldn't be surprised if L&C had one also. All 3 of these dumps need to be closed yesterda.

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  8. The Lewis and Clark "Law School" gives us solid evidence that Career Service Offices wouldn't budge a finger to assist graduates. In a letter to students and alumns, the school had to a apologize for not double-checking the computer generated password for Symplicity, which was "fail8ure".

    Nowadays computers beat human competitors on Jeopardy. I wonder if Symplicity became self-aware and decided to not bullshit victims of the diploma mill. The new password was the only honest word uttered from the CSO.

    Check out the coverage from ATL: http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/lewis-clark-law-school-subtly-insults-its-alumni/

    -Stephen

    ReplyDelete
  9. Here are a few alternate passwords suggested on the ATL forum:

    1) not2successful
    2) deAth1zThe0nLyWayOut
    3) default4loans
    4) L00z3rs
    5) Paral3gal
    6) neTw0rk

    -Stephen

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  10. WIllamette is in Oregon? Shit, I never even heard of this place and I lived in the Pacific Northwest for years. Probably not a good sign for this school.

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  11. Nando:

    The Poor paralegal has another great post:

    http://thepoorparalegal.blogspot.com/2011/02/sad-letter.html

    ReplyDelete
  12. @11:52 am,

    Last year, I received an application from a Willamette JD who had worked as a finance director, FEC compliance consultant, or deputy campaign finance manager for five different Congressional candidates across the nation – including two people who won seats in Congress. The guy had received a second DUI conviction, and was seeking to perform his restitution/community service. He had also interned at Multnomah Defenders, Inc., while he was attending WillameTTTTe University Commode of Law.

    Willamette is a joke of a law school. Why should someone take out $110K to earn a TTTT degree, from this festering stink pit?

    http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16

    TLS user “jonas” posted this reply:

    “Here's my (very personal, highly unscientific) take on Willamette. The law school's reputation in Oregon is okay. It's generally considered the third-best school in the state, behind L&C and Oregon.”

    This toilet is considered the third best law school in the state. What an accomplishment, huh?!?! Then again, there are only three law schools in the State of Oregon. Unfortunately, many of the people who posted on this thread apparently attended this fourth tier trash can.

    http://www.willamette.edu/about/recognition/index.html

    But who cares? After all, the school asserts the following:

    “Numerous publications rank Willamette highly for our strong academic programs, and we are recognized nationally as a leader in sustainability and civic engagement.”

    http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/news/2010/fall/best_value.php

    And the school was listed as a “Best Value” law school by PreLaw magazine. However, this third tier publisher also listed Third Tier Drake as a “Best Buy” in 2009. Jack CriTTenden owns both PreLaw and NaTTTional Juri$TTT magazines.

    http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/nationaljurist0909/#/30

    ReplyDelete
  13. Perhaps someone has already mentioned this, but you have to take solace in the fact that they have access to great wine! Pinots from Willamette are amazing.

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  14. The only wine these grads will be able to afford is 2 buck chuck. It's a shame. After the next student loan payment they might be able to afford some Popov in a plastic bottle.

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  15. $31,000 for one year at this place and it's a best buy? The school is third or fourth tier. Would you pay $25K for a 1995 Toyota Tercel? Shit, at least the care will take you places you need to go. A Willamette law diploma won't even get you a job at a call center.

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  16. If by some miracle you read this Nando I just started up my own scam blog. Its from an Unaccredited Law Students perspective. I want to help expose the alternative to the ABA monopoly. Law school at 4k a year! I would love any help you could give me, or a link to my site.

    Its brand spanking new, so any help you could give would be appreciated. Thanks a ton!

    http://abanoway.wordpress.com/

    ReplyDelete
  17. Why don't you scambloggers start your own law school? Most law profs haven't practiced law either. Provide an alternative and only charge the kids $20K per year. JK.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I have read many of your "ratings," and have come to the conclusion that you are either: someone who flunked out of law school, or someone who could not get into law school. You are a bitter failure, who obviously has way too much time on his hands. To make yourself feel better, you shit on every law school you possibly can, even though you probably know little to nothing about law school, considering the fact that you probably never attended one. The fact is, you are not smart or hard working enough to get into law school, and you probably work at Wall Mart. Get a life loser. Just because you are a failure, does not mean everyone else is too. You are the exception, not the rule.

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  19. 12:12: Who on Earth are you talking about? Are you employed by one of these fourth-tier crapholes?

    ReplyDelete
  20. To the mindless cockroach who posted at 12:12 pm,

    I did attend an ABA-accredited law school. I even managed to graduate from that third-tier institution/sinkhole. So much for your little conclusions, i.e. stupid assumptions.

    Now, tell me why law school is a wise investment for most students. State your case, moron.

    Also, this blog has been cited in the New York Times, Slate, ABA Journal, law.com, and various other publications. Quite a few law professors have also confirmed what I have said about the American "legal education" market. Legal practitioners and social commentators have also affirmed this message.

    A few “law professors” openly support of the basic premises of these blogs – even if some have not actually endorsed the blogs. Brian Tamanaha (Washington U. of St. Louis), Lucille Jewel (The John Marshall Law School), J. Gordon Hylton (Marquette), Richard Sander (UCLA), William Henderson (Indiana-Bloomington), Herwig Schlunk (Vanderbilt) and Erik Gerding (U. of New Mexico) come to mind. In respective order:

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1640090

    http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/07/29/best-of-the-blogs-4/

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060_print.html

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2009/06/the-end-of-an-era-the-bi-modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SSRN-id1497044.pdf

    http://www.theconglomerate.org/2009/11/incredible-shrinking-law-school.html

    How do you spell "credibility," Idiot?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  21. 12:12

    What's it like having nando's ballsack on your chin?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Nothing's gonna change...people want to retain the choice to become debt-slaves!

    http://www.postgazette.com/pg/11050/1126585-298.stm

    ReplyDelete
  23. College grads aren't content with working at Dillards. They'll keep trying to get into master's programs and law schools.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Feb. 18 @12:12 sounds like the same one that is commenting on my blog.

    He jumps to the wrong conclusions, and doesn't read the Profile information, or prior posts, or much of anything.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Nando - Head on over to subprime. This "LWIC" chick is in serious need of your boot in her ass.

    ReplyDelete
  26. We have identified our loser.

    IP address 69.143.57.57

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=69.143.57.57

    How are things in Alexandria, VA?

    Time Visitor Session Referrer

    11:59am 69.143.57.57 13 actions 13m 47s search.yahoo.co... Tier 2 law schools

    No other visitor in this time frame made more than a few actions. Nice attempt at staying under the radar.

    The cretin above posted the exact same drivel on these other two posts:

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-will-highlight-fraudulent-employment.html

    Back in November 2009, I provided an update on the deceptive info I received from the salespeople at the following fourth tier waste plants: WhiTTTTier, TTTTouro, Roger William$, and Pace. Perhaps, this moron had his little heart set on attending one of these trash cans. Too bad reality had to set in for you, Dumbass.

    It is MUCH better that you learn the facts now, than to face reality after you have taken on an additional $132K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. You should be thanking me, moron. (The idiot's comment was posted on 2-18-11 at 12:06 pm.)

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/02/decrepit-fourth-tier-waste-pile.html

    After posting the same message on this thread at 12:12 pm, the cretin then posted a thread comment on 2-18-11 at 12:13 pm.

    @11:08 am,

    I have already posted a comment on Subprime's blog. However, if the troll hasn't learned her lesson, I will be more than happy to give her a TTR beatdown. Thanks for the tip.
    Time Visitor Session Referrer

    11:59am 69.143.57.57 13 actions 13m 47s search.yahoo.co... Tier 2 law schools

    No other visitor in this time frame made more than a few actions. Nice attempt at staying under the rader.

    The cretin above posted the exact same drivel on these other two posts:

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-will-highlight-fraudulent-employment.html

    Here, I touched base on the deceptive info I received from the salespeople at the following fourth tier waste plants: WhiTTTTier, TTTTouro, Roger William$, and Pace. Perhaps, this moron had his little heart set on attending one of these trash heaps. Too bad reality had to set in for you, Dumbass.

    It’s better that you learn the facts now, than to learn them after you have taken on an additional $132K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. You should be thanking me, moron. (The idiot's comment was posted on 2-18-11 at 12:06 pm.)

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/02/decrepit-fourth-tier-waste-pile.html

    After posting the same message on this thread at 12:12 pm, the cretin then posted a thread comment on 2-18-11 at 12:13 pm.

    @11:08 am,

    I have already posted a comment on Subprime's blog. However, if the troll hasn't learned her lesson, I will be more than happy to give her a TTR beatdown. Thanks for the tip.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Nando you really need to get a life, or atleast get laid or something. You are probably a virgin living in your mother's basement. The fact that you have the time to look up my ip address shows me what a pathetic loser you are. Don't hate on the success of others just because you are a failure. I don't have any more time to waste arguing with you. I graduated from American University in 2007, and work for a firm in D.C. making over 150 k a year. Get a life!

    ReplyDelete
  28. And believe it or not, plenty of tier 3 graduates are successfull. Just because you have poor: people, networking, and lawyering skills, does not mean every other tier 3 graduate does. There are failures from every law school, just like there are failures from every profession. Just because you failed to become a lawyer, does not mean everyone else is as stupid and pathetic as you. So while you sit in your mother's basement writing your twelve paragraph response to me, I will be having sex with my hot girlfriend. I only felt the need to post here originally because my friend showed me the blog, and I think it is wrong for a LOSER like yourself to discourage potential law students. Stop trying to bring everyone else down with you.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @February 20, 2011 1:54 PM:

    You cracked 150K and have the time and/or inclination to even visit a law school scamblog?

    That is indeed rare. Anyway, congratulations, as your challenges with attention to detail exhibited by your postings have seemingly not held you back.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Nando, what was your LSAT score? Obviously not very good if you settled on Drake. What was your class rank? Obviously not very good if you couldn't find a job as a lawyer. I admitt that a tier three student has to atleast make the top 50 percent of his/her class to have a good shot at a job. OBVIOUSLY, Nando did POORLY on the LSAT, and also could not rank well in his class. Mix that with having a low social IQ, and you have no job. There, I just explained Nando's pathetic situation. Obviously, not all tier 3 or tier 4 graduates are like Nando because, unlike Nando, THEY CAN FIND JOBS AS LAWYERS!

    ReplyDelete
  31. @February 20, 2011 5:28 PM:

    But you see, that is the very point about law school not being a very good idea for MOST law students.

    To wit:

    How many medical students do YOU believe stay up late at night wondering what their class rank will be or is? Or, fret about what "tier" their medical school falls into, such that it will, for all intents and purposes, determine their career prospects, with some exceptions being the case?

    How many dental students do YOU think stay up late at night fretting about their class ranking or what tier their dental school falls into vis-a-vis their future job prospects? Have you ever even HEARD of medical or dental school "tiers", for that matter?

    Do you see the point I am driving at? The simple point is...by all means, go to law school. But the scambloggers merely drive the point home that in the immensely overcrowded and festeringly over-competitive world of law, law school, particularly non-elite law school, simply is not a good investment for most? Do you understand that, after attending a non-elite law school, you will be entertaining 3AM phone calls from probate clients fighting over the possession of Dad's riding mower? Do you? You will not be arguing constitutional cases before SCOTUS.

    Simple, eh?

    Ergo, what is your problem/difficulty with the scambloggers merely highlighting this truism, such that a few kids will possibly avoid a lifetime of crushing debt as a result of attending one of these toilet bowls? Do what you will with your career dreams and aspirations, by all means, but what do YOU care if others are hereby dissuaded by the efforts of this and many other scambloggers?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    ReplyDelete
  32. @5:28

    It is hard to believe you are as successful as you claim, or even a practicing attorney for that matter.

    You don't bother to do any prior reading, and then wildly jump to wrong conclusions.

    If you weren't blinded by your own bias, you would have taken some time to read this blog.

    Then you would have known that Nando is married, has a home, and was a Scholarship student in Law School.

    And the hot girlfriend comment makes you seem pretty young.

    Why don't you try to see the other side of the coin once in a while, or at least listen to what other people are saying about the current state of Legal Education and the Profession in general. A lot of people are being hurt, rather than helped by pursuing a JD.

    And I really believe that can be remedied.

    ReplyDelete
  33. http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/koma-comic-strip-gotta-bounce-though.jpg

    Good toilet pic for later use.

    ReplyDelete
  34. To the apologist cockroach who posted at 1:54/2:12/5:28,

    If by "hot girlfriend," you are referring to your male escort/prostitute, then congratulations, I guess. Make sure he wears protection. On second thought, nobody cares about your health or safety.

    Your blatant ignorance indicates that you have never been to law school. I am making more money than many of my classmates who earned top grades at Third Tier Drake. People who consistently made Dean’s List are unemployed or underemployed. The same goes for many who were journal editors. I knew guys who graduated in the top 5 slots who ended up working for insurance defense mills.

    Many graduates went back to their old jobs, teaching grade school, working for insurance companies, and other low-level positions. Quite a few decided to take the desperate step of going solo. Some are getting by on public assistance. Heaven forbid if any of these JDs get sick or injured. Keep in mind that MANY of these people are drowning in student debt.

    What is your solution, mental midget?! “Network”? Guess what, cretin? The only attorneys who attend those law school mixers are broke-ass solos who cannot afford to hire anyone? Many of practitioners cannot even afford a secretary or paralegal. Hell, THEY are attending these events for the free booze and crackers. What does that tell you about the state of the legal industry?!?! I realize your anemic brain may not be able to figure this out, but give it a try.

    At this point in time, the only people who feel that law school is not a scam are the law schools and their shills.

    Lastly, I NEVER said that ALL third tier law grads are unemployed. You allegedly graduated from the toilet known as American University and are supposedly making $150K, but you cannot figure out how to argue without relying on a weak straw man.

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=108.18.6.71

    How are things in Alexandria, VA, moron?

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    5:22pm 108.18.6.71 6 actions 14m 26s search.yahoo.co... third tier reality blog
    5:08pm 108.18.6.71 2 actions 7m 6s search.yahoo.co... third tier reality
    1:43pm 108.18.6.71 23 actions 29m 51s search.yahoo.co... 3rd tier reality

    We can see how wonderful your existence is, kid. Twenty three actions in one visit?! And YOU are telling someone to get a life?! Were you waiting for your hot girlfriend to finish blowing Pedro the pool boy, or something?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Dude, you are hilarious. I'm glad I got such a rise out of you. Keep on making excuses for failing at life. I feel sorry for you, because you are a very bitter, and pathetic individual. I'm the one laughing at you right now, because I actually made something of myself with my law degree. Only an extremely bitter person dedicates a website to trashing every law school in existence. By insulting American University, as well as other respected schools such as Villanova and Miami, you have lost all credibility. According to you, only graduates of the top eight schools get jobs, which is utterly laughable. I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you. You are a bold faced liar. I doubt you ever graduated from Drake, I doubt you are married, and I doubt you are even remotely successful. You are a joke and I feel sorry for you. But hey, if trashing all law schools out there, as well as everyone who attends them makes you feel better, then go for it. LOSER!

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  36. Alright guys, I lied and I am sorry. I am currently a professor at the University of D.C school of law, and I am deeply angered by this entire blog which is filled with lies and false information. How dare you disrespect legitimate law schools like these? You have no right to spread such lies about reputable institutions. I am going to request that you either end this blog now, or change it to another topic. Failure to do so, and I will notify my superiors, and a course of legal action could be taken against this drivel.
    Regards

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  37. "Failure to do so, and I will notify my superiors, and a course of legal action could be taken against this drivel."

    Bullshit!

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  38. Law school actually is the default option for college graduates with some otherwise lifeless degree in English or Political Science. There aren't all that many other practical options".sure there are, if the individual is able to avoid the snobbery trap. Business-to-business sales, for example, can be very lucrative, and for a person with an independent spirit, may be a lot more fun than lawyering.

    best law professors

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  39. Now, now Nando, you omitted the fact that Willamette University produced the famous attorney Matthew Aylworth.

    The renowned professors of Willamette Law surely must be proud that their graduate allegedly faked affidavits in order to garnish the Social Security wages of a disabled senior.

    http://www.aspecialdayguide.com/shyster/aylworthr.htm

    But that's not all! Matthew Aylworth is said to have refused to validate the debts of a disabled veteran, and continued to collect on him anyway!

    http://www.realchangenews.org/index.php/site/archives/6360/

    Oh, and Nando, how many of your elite first-tier grads managed to get their first formal reprimand in three states in less than a year after graduation?

    http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/08may/baractions.html

    Go. Willamette.

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  40. It's not that the law schools are providing garbage educations. It's that the job market can't absorb so many graduates. How is that the fault of the schools?

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  41. To the moron above,

    The fact remains that ABA-accredited law schools do not teach students how to practice law. Imagine if dental, medical and veterinary schools adopted that model, dumbass. Would you feel confident with that arrangement, idiot?!?!

    By the way, bitch: the law school pigs are FULLY AWARE of the attorney glut, in this country. If they are wise enough to graduate from elite schools, then they should have enough common sense to realize the situation facing current students and recent graduates.

    http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/stats_1.authcheckdam.pdf

    From 1980-1981 to 2009-2010 - a span of 30 years - ABA-approved law schools pumped out 1,161,863 graduates. For the JD Class of 2010, NALP reports: “of those graduates for whom employment was known, only 68.4% obtained a job for which bar passage is required.”

    http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Legal/Lawyers.htm#projections_data

    The Bureau of Labor now forecasts that there will be 73,600 more employed lawyers in 2020 than there were in 2010. The Bureau also states that there are 728,200 people in the U.S. working as attorneys. Now run that against the number of degrees awarded above. Prior to this, BLS predicted that there would be an additional 98,500 EMPLOYED attorneys than there were in 2008.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings

    Lastly, average law student indebtedness has reached obscene levels. The law schools are - at a minimum - acting irresponsibly. When you consider that these supposed "institutions of higher learning" published false and misleading employment data, for years, you will understand that these bastards are conducting a fraud. If you don't give a damn about students, grads and taxpayers, then I suppose this does not bother you, eunuch.

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  42. I actually went to Willamette Law and, while I admit the cost is not entirely justified, I think that this article and a number of the posts are missing some facts that others who may be looking at Willamette should know. I don't have statistics, and frankly don't care to look for them as I actually did get a job at a great private firm right across the street from Willamette (which by the way does almost all of its hiring from recent Willamette grads), but back to my point. Willamette might not give any full ride scholarships (although I question the accuracy of that), but it does provide large scholarships at a high rate. I received a scholarship for $18,000/yr, back when the tuition was a little bit lower, which was hugely helpful in keeping my ultimate student debt down. I knew of many other students that received similar scholarships. I will say, however, that the tough part is holding onto the scholarships, as the curve is very strict and you have to maintain a fairly high GPA to keep your scholarship.
    Really I think the biggest problem with all of this is that people are not informed and prepared to incur the kind of debt that is involved, as well as not having a plan to pay it off once it is there, other than hoping they get some big firm job where you have to work endless hours and are miserable, just in order to pay your debt off. In sum, while I agree Willamette has some issues, I do not think it is bad as this author makes it out to be. And that the students have to start taking on some of the responsibility for their decisions as well.

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  43. I graduated from Willamette Law in 1973' and like over 90 percent of my classmates passed the Oregon bar on the first try. I got a law-related fulfilling job in state government and am now comfortably retired .I borrowed $4500 and this paid for three years of law school expenses except for books. I was well satisfied with my Willamette Law experience.

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  44. To the pig who posted on January 17, 2013 at 4:38 pm,

    The overall job market has changed significantly since you attended law school, Boomer cockroach. Don't act as though your situation still applies to today's grads.

    My wife's father is a bank president. He graduated with a BA from Kansas State University. According to him, he was not a stellar student. However, he had tons of job offers and interviews when he completed college. His first job was as a Land Appraiser for a commercial bank. He estimates that his tuition was roughly $300 per semester - and he was a non-resident student! Now, he will not even consider hiring someone as a low-wage bank teller, if an applicant does not have at least a Bachelor's degree.

    Here are some links that could help educate your ignorant, deluded, old ass – although I am pretty sure that you will not even bother to peruse the sources below:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

    On October 20, 2010, Ohio University economics professor Richard Vedder wrote a story entitled "Why Did 17 Million Students Go to College?" It was published by the Chronicle of Higher Education. Make sure to look at the chart, and the following excerpt, Dumbass:

    "Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree.

    Do...you...understand...that, Bitch?!?! Or do you need someone to scribble that out for you with Crayola on posterboard?! Later on, Vedder states:

    "The relentless claims of the Obama administration and others that having more college graduates is necessary for continued economic leadership is incompatible with this view. Putting issues of student abilities aside, the growing disconnect between labor market realities and the propaganda of higher-education apologists is causing more and more people to graduate and take menial jobs or no job at all. This is even true at the doctoral and professional level—there are 5,057 janitors in the U.S. with Ph.D.’s, other doctorates, or professional degrees."

    As part of my job, I sometimes pull up local RDA plans. The vast majority of such jobs created fall into these categories: fast food; sit-down restaurants; call centers; gas stations/convenience stores; etc. A college education is clearly not required for those positions.

    http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/stats_1.authcheckdam.pdf

    Based on the ABA document "Enrollment and Degrees Awarded, 1963-2010," from 1980-1981 to 2009-2010 - a span of 30 years - ABA-approved law schools pumped out 1,161,863 graduates. Do you believe that such overproduction of JDs does not lead to a glut of attorneys?! You are dimissed, mental midget.




    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Peace, Nando. Don't frizzle away from rancor. It's not worth it.

      Delete
  45. Nando, Nando, Nando! I am so disappointed to return here and see that you still haven't given Willamette the credit it's due. For your education, I will provide an update on the famous Willamette Law alum mentioned above, Matthew Aylworth. This ethical giant has just received two more repimands for fraudulent conduct from his Bar association. Surely Willamette, as well as the Mormon church to which he belongs, are proud of their stellar young'in.

    Fewer than 1% of written complaints submitted to the Bar advance to disciplinary stages, yet Aylworth just keeps racking up those honors! Your lauded "top-tier" law schools could not have done better, no?

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Matthew-Aylworth/Eugene-Oregon/Matthew-Aylworth-Daniel-N-Gordon-collection-agency-American-Express-Bank-of-America-N-1074092

    ReplyDelete

 
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