Monday, February 21, 2011

Rank, Fourth Tier Scat Pile: Whittier Law School



Tuition: On page 6 of this dense document, we see that current tuition and fees at Whittier Law - for a full-time student - amount to $38,000. However, a part-time student will only be charged $23,350 for the 2010-2011 school year. And who doesn’t have that amount sitting in the bank?!

Total Cost of Attendance: On the same page, the school lists the total estimated COA - for a full-time student - as $61,230. The commode notes the following: “For the purpose of aid verification, the COA is normally based on a nine-month period for fall and spring semesters only (the summer term is not included).”

As those of us in the real world are aware, an actual student will need to pay living expenses for twelve months out of the year. Therefore, room and board, personal expenses, and transportation will be an additional $6,880. This would provide us with a more accurate COA figure of $68,110 - for one year at a California truck stop restroom!!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+8

Ranking: What’s that you say, Lemming? “Where is this school ranked?” Well, I am glad you asked. According to US News & World Report, this school is a fourth tier, sweltering dung pile.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18

WHITTIER LAW SCHOOL WAS RECENTLY ON PROBATION: The school was on probation for several years, due to its graduates’ low bar passage rate. Of course, the school took some measures to increase these results. The ABA has placed the school in good standing. The cockroaches at Whittier have since removed all links that mentioned the school’s probationary status.

http://www.law.whittier.edu/resources/careerservices/nalp09.pdf

Supposed Employment Placement Statistics: The sewer claims that 89.3% of its Class of 2009 was employed or enrolled in degree programs, presumably within nine months of graduation. However, one quickly realizes that 83.3% of this class was employed.

Head over to page 2. Of those in “private practice,” 10.3 percent went into solo practice, while 73.1 percent entered into firms of 2-10 lawyers. Yes, the sign of a true “legal education” powerhouse, right?!?!

Starting Salary Info: On page 3 of this PDF, you can see that only 47 respondents provided salary info! On page 1, the school notes that 150 out of 151 graduates provided employment status. Of these, 125 JDs reported being employed. And yet only 37.6% of these grads reported salary data?!?! Based on these relative, pathetic few responses, the commode lists 25th percentile starting salary for private practice at $60K, whereas the 75th percentile is listed as $74,500.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

Law Student Indebtedness: The bitches and hobos at US News are still unable to bring this page back up. One would think that some staff member of this rag would be able to re-enter the figures from a database. Apparently, that is too ambitious and work-intensive.

http://whittier.lawschoolnumbers.com/

In 2005-2006, the trash can apparently awarded full tuition and stipend to 4.8% of students; full-tuition scholarships to 3.4% of its students; and half-tuition scholarships to 10.7% of the class. How many of these recipients kept their scholarships after first year?! By the way, Law School Numbers shows that one California law firm participated in the school’s 2007-2008 OCI program!

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/951/644/2009-951644048-058e9540-9.pdf

“Professor” and Administrator Salaries: Head over to page 30 of Whittier College’s 2009 Tax Form 990. There, you will see that Dean Neil Cogan made $340,454 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for 2008. Yes, Cogan received $233,310 in base compensation; $30,000 in “other” compensation, and $77,144 in nontaxable benefits. But that’s not all!

Take a look at these 2008 TOTAL COMPENSATION figures, for the following “law professors”: William Patton, $258,607; Howard Foss, $227,755; David Welkowitz, $198,291; and “associate professor” Calvin Peeler, $228,839. Who says “higher education” doesn’t pay off?! Actually it does not pay off for most of the students, but the casino system pays out tremendously for the “professors.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whittier_Law_School#cite_note-14

Conclusion: Whittier Law School is an embarrassment to “higher education.” It was recently on probation from the free-wheeling ABA. That is akin to being turned down by a busted-up, snaggletooth, broke-ass prostitute. The fact that this filthy pile of excrement is allowed to operate is a clear sign that the system is broken, in that it does not serve the interests of students or the public. Law school is designed to provide cushy jobs to academics, most of whom could not hack it in the real world.

Ask yourself the following: “Do I want to take out $174K to earn a TTTT law degree, and enter a dwindling industry?” If the answer is no, then walk away from this turd pile. You do not need to take on such monstrous levels of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, in order to land a job making $35K-$45K. Would you pay $30K for a 1996 Nissan Sentra with 213,000 miles on it? Would you pay $4,000 for a ten-year-old laptop? Of course not! Again, the choice is clear: if this is the best school you can get into, then you need to return to your $35K job and get those notions of being a lawyer/justice seeker out of your head.

79 comments:

  1. Whittier was on probation because of low pass rates on the bar exam. The ABA extended this I believe for another year or two. The school went to work on making sure some students would fail out. This prevented them from hampering the school'soverall bar pass rate. The school should of had its doors closed. But we can't do that now, can we?

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  2. Egads.

    How many law schools are in California? Does it surpass the number of Wendy's franchises?

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  3. Dude, you are hilarious. I'm glad I got such a rise out of you. Keep on making excuses for failing at life. I feel sorry for you, because you are a very bitter, and pathetic individual. I'm the one laughing at you right now, because I actually made something of myself with my law degree. Only an extremely bitter person dedicates a website to trashing every law school in existence. By insulting American University, as well as other respected schools such as Villanova and Miami, you have lost all credibility. According to you, only graduates of the top eight schools get jobs, which is utterly laughable. I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you. You are a bold faced liar. I doubt you ever graduated from Drake, I doubt you are married, and I doubt you are even remotely successful. You are a joke and I feel sorry for you. But hey, if trashing all law schools out there, as well as everyone who attends them makes you feel better, then go for it. LOSER!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Idiot. Everything he says is true.

      Delete
  4. Dude, you are hilarious. I'm glad I got such a rise out of you. Keep on making excuses for failing at life. I feel sorry for you, because you are a very bitter, and pathetic individual. I'm the one laughing at you right now, because I actually made something of myself with my law degree. Only an extremely bitter person dedicates a website to trashing every law school in existence. By insulting American University, as well as other respected schools such as Villanova and Miami, you have lost all credibility. According to you, only graduates of the top eight schools get jobs, which is utterly laughable. I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing with you. You are a bold faced liar. I doubt you ever graduated from Drake, I doubt you are married, and I doubt you are even remotely successful. You are a joke and I feel sorry for you. But hey, if trashing all law schools out there, as well as everyone who attends them makes you feel better, then go for it. LOSER!

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  5. ^^^^Um, feel free to jump in here, but why would anyone lie about being married on a scamblog? I mean, it's not like that's hard to do or something. Sheesh, my dad did it, and didn't even attend high school, let alone one of these third and fourth tier toilet bowls!

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  6. There are less than 29,000 law firm jobs each year but more than 47,000 law school graduates each year. The law schools are a FRAUD. They promise jobs when there are no jobs available. The ABA is doing NOTHING about it!

    To the trolls making fun of Nando above, there is only 1 thing more pathetic than making fun of law school scam bloggers: supporting the law schools & faculty that made an ASS out of you by taking out 180k in debt so they could pay themselves big salaries.

    And to the guy who keeps bragging about how great American University is, get over yourself! You are just bitter because you were REJECTED by one of the top 8 law schools that Nando told you to go to. Also, stop repeating yourself in multiple postings.

    You may need to see a doctor about your dylexia. We all have our shortcomings.

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  7. By the way, if you did graduate from Drake, did you pass the bar? Doubtful. The fact of the matter is that you were never qualified to be a lawyer in the first place. With your 150 LSAT score and 2.5 UGPA, you were delusional to believe that you had what it took to be a good attorney, and this was probably evidenced by your many failing attempts to pass the bar exam. Not everyone is intelligent enough to be a lawyer, and you are a prime example of an idiot who was not qualified to attend law school in the first place, and somehow earned a degree at a no name school no one has ever heard of. Sadly enough, you failed the bar a few months later. Maybe you retook it again, and failed once more. But eventually you quit, became depressed, angry, and bitter, moved back home with your mother, and invented this pile of shit you call your blog. Face it man, you just are not intelligent enough to be a lawyer.

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  8. ^^^^ Something tells me that this guy or girl is a law school employee who has nothing else better to do on his day off but troll on the web. You stupid ugly bitchass mother fucker, the law school scam is being exposed and all you law school administrators, faculty and staff will soon get the pink slip.

    The truth about the legal profession is finally being exposed and you are scared about losing your job. I would be scared, too. Enjoy your life while you can, pretty soon you will be filing a claim with the EDD.

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  9. "Face it man, you just are not intelligent enough to be a lawyer."

    February 21, 2011 1:53 PM

    Intelligent enough to be a lawyer? Are you kidding me? Law is all about connections. Period. Whether you have them or can make them. The real academic studs go into medicine, information technologies and engineering.

    I love that one cartoon about becoming a lawyer, when the lawyer presumes, rightly, that the wannabe lawyer he is interviewing was only into law because she flunked out of pre-med. Hilarious.

    Law is a cesspool, and you will be surrounded by bitter, nasty clients who will likely be unable to even pay their bill. Law sucks.

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  10. The piece of garbage who posted at 1:24, 1:25 and 1:53 claims to be a DC Biglaw associate who graduated from American University in 2007. He further charges that he is making $150K per year. Yet look at his recent fixation:

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Feb 21 2011 1:12pm 108.18.55.40 31 actions 49m 14s
    Feb 21 2011 9:26am 108.18.55.40 2 actions 2m 35s
    Feb 18 2011 11:59am 69.143.57.57 13 actions 13m 47s

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=108.18.6.71
    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=108.18.55.40
    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=69.143.57.57

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    5:22pm 108.18.6.71 6 actions 14m 26s
    5:08pm 108.18.6.71 2 actions 7m 6s
    1:43pm 108.18.6.71 23 actions 29m 51s

    Six visits for a total of 77 actions, in 116 minutes and 59 seconds. Yes, you must be a very successful DC lawyer. Get a life - and some integrity.

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  11. To the lying pig in Alexandria, VA claiming to be an American University law grad making $150K per year:

    You can barely write. Also, LEARN HOW TO READ, moron! Where have I ever stated that ONLY the graduates of top 8 law schools find jobs?!?!

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+2

    Look! American Univer$ity is listed as the 48th most amazing, fantastic and mesmerizing law school in the United States. Wow! In the end, it is an overpriced toilet - especially considering that there are 8 law schools in DC.

    http://www.mapsofworld.com/cities/usa/washingtondc/law-schools.html

    http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/university-of-miami-law-school-defers-1ls-this-is-not-a-joke/

    As far as 60th rated Miami goes, their actions speak volumes. Back in June 2009, the dean at the University of Miami Sewer of Law offered $5,000 "Public Interest Deferral Scholarships" to those who deferred enrollment for one year and performed 120 hours of public service. Perhaps a UM student can chime in, on this subject - since you have difficulty understanding reality.

    http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanova-law-school-knowingly-reported-inaccurate-information-to-the-aba/#respond

    The new dean at the 67th ranked Villanova admitted that the school KNOWINGLY reported inaccurate info to the ABA. What a beacon of integrity, huh?!

    Lastly, I have built my online reputation by backing up the things I state on this blog. Who has the charts, facts, links, graphs, and industry statements to support their case?! You, on the other hand, are tossing out lies and baseless suppositions left and right. Your mother must be so proud!

    What is so prestigious about these three law schools?! Anyone who has been to law school in the last 10-20 years can tell you that legal employers are not impressed with such commodes. Anyway, if you like getting slapped around like a bitch, then keep posting patently ignorant comments on this board.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Let's start a pool. $5 says the shill doesn't learn his lesson and posts more stupid comments.

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  13. I think it's quite telling when someone lists how much money they make on blogs like Nando's. Apparently, that's a sign of how smart you are, which is quite problematic and untrue. It also shows just how off they are when it comes to the reasons why we are making a point to criticize institutions responsible for turning smart, highly motivated individuals into indentured educated citizens. Name-calling is hardly a way to make an argument. It's a waste of your time, and everyone else's time.

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  14. Learning a lesson from online losers? I actually laugh my ass off at the way you guys reply to me. It's quite entertaining. Nando may not be much of a lawyer, but he is funny as hell. Nando you just love to kill the dreams of others. You only live once. if someone wants to be successful, they may as well chase their dream. Everyone on this Earth who has ever had success in any professional field had overwhelming odds against them, but continued to pursue their dream. Nando, on the other hand, is a pessimistic quitter, and look how happy he is! Nando is a man who gave up on his dream of becoming a lawyer, and now blogs all day, and probably works the night shift at Wallmart. Nando you are right, and any prospective law student who cannot get into Harvard should give up on being a lawyer, and work as an assistant manager at Wallmart and maintain an angry smear blog just like you. Now that my friends, is the path to happiness. Oh, and by the way, you never answered my question about passing the bar.

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  15. "You only live once. if someone wants to be successful, they may as well chase their dream."

    This guy sounds like he is trying to sign someone up for Amway.

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  16. "Nando you are right, and any prospective law student who cannot get into Harvard should give up on being a lawyer, and work as an assistant manager at Wallmart and maintain an angry smear blog just like you."

    I love the sense of class superiority dripping out of this comment. To an objective observer, being a debt-free assistant manager at Walmart (honorable employment, by the way) would seem to be a lot better than being a unemployed Whittier Law graduate with six figures of non-dischargable debt.

    But I forgot! The assistant manager at Walmart is a lowly prole, and the unemployed lawyer with six figures of non-dischargable debt is a member of the Intellectual Class, and is self-evidently socially superior! Silly of me to forget **such** important status distinctions...

    Actually, I think that the third and four-tier law schools are getting desperate - thus the increasingly nutty comments on this blog. People are wising up, and law school applications are way off. Who does a fall off in law school applications impact - Harvard or Whittier? The end of the gravy train for these guys is visibly in sight.

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  17. American University..........HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
    This turd is oblivious. Sitting there jacking off in his bedroom to porn and then concocting his imaginary occupation? Say you, what firm do you work for? Just curious.

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  18. Well put.

    Let us also not forget that there is actually the possibility of some real upward mobility in Wal-Mart's organization for those willing to do some travel for the company, relocate, etc. There are some real success stories about individuals from some fairly humble beginnings.

    Anyway, many of them have better prospects than the newbie lawyer who will be grinding out miserable 70-hour weeks under incredible pressure for asshole partners and horrid clients he cannot even stand. Right before they dump your sorry ass when the next graduating class in this sickeningly overcrowded field is dumped out onto the streets. And, with great cost to his or her health and well-being, premature baldness, impotence, alcoholism and depression awaits many in the festeringly-overcrowded jungle of law.

    I would MUCH rather be travelling for Wal-Mart as a buyer to Singapore or other parts of Asia and South America on the company dime, than living in a shitty cubicle doing doc review.

    Just sayin'.

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  19. I think it is best for this person to be able to completely discharge his or her mid on this blog, and on whatever ails him.(or her)

    And then, the person should be encuraged to try and re-phrase his (or her?) argument in as many different ways as possible.

    This sort of stuff has to be heard, because it represents the mindset that has brought about the Horror of the American Higher Educational system and Student Loan Debt.

    Because,there are others that think just like him, (or her) and it is a card that has to be understood, and dealt with.

    For instance, there is some guy in Nebraska with a dead squirrel on his head, even as we speak, that is of the exact same mindset.

    Not cool. Not cool at all.

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  20. "Nando you just love to kill the dreams of others. You only live once. if someone wants to be successful, they may as well chase their dream."

    So your position is that people should discard all rationality and chase windmills, consequences be damned? Forgive me for questioning the $150k-earning "D.C. lawyer," but I'd say that one should do some serious thinking about probable outcomes before borrowing $100K-plus to attend law school. All the talk about dreams and puppies and rainbows sounds nice, until you've got no job and a huge pile of non-dischargable student loan debt. That ain't exactly the "path to happiness" either, chief.

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  21. Does anyone actually believe the guy is making $150K? He can't even spell Wal-Mart. Obvious troll. More than likely a middle school kid.

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  22. A few years ago, a client of mine was served with a paternity suit. The suit alleged he fathered a child while he was in jail. One of the counts on the suit alleged that my client placed his sperm in a ziplock bag and he mailed it to the mother who then impregnated herself with his sperm. The outcome? Well my client went from putative father to, borrow Maury Povich, being "NOT THE FATHER." I looked up the attorney that filed the paternity suit. No surprise, she graduated from Whittier. To be fair, the paternity hearing resulted in much laughter and uncontrollable gigling from the judge and her courtroom deputies. This is the only person I met who went to Whittier. If she is an example of the garbage this heap of shit produces, God help the legal profession.

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  23. 73.1% entered firms with 2-10 employees while only 10% were solos?

    Something is wrong with these numbers. Were the 10% the only ones who could not find a classmate to rent an office space with? Or do they count employment as a paralegal at a law firm as "gainful employment?"

    "I make $10 an hour answering the phone and performing research activities for a solo."

    "Oh. So, what you're saying is that you've formed a *partnership*."

    "No, I'm a paralegal."

    "How do you know that?"

    "Because my employer said so."

    "Have you gone to court and filed something on behalf of a client?"

    "Uh, yes."

    "Congratulations! You now work in a firm with 2-10 attorneys."

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  24. I live in Alexandria, and I attend 'The' George Washington University, albeit as a Computer Science Student.
    One day I wandered over to the law-school, to see what is posted on the type of bulletin boards that are usually used to post jobs. I saw advertisements for two job fairs and a request from someone who is cramming for the LSAT.

    Anyone who is following the legal profession knows that law-school has made itself infamous for not teaching anything beneficial for a law-student's chosen profession. We can witness the demand for BARBRI's services to help people pass the bar exam as evidence for this conjecture. Under these circumstances, school prestige, and incoming class LSAT scores and GPA's are used as proxies for merit.
    Now, there isn't a lot of demand for people from 'The' George Washington University, the 20th Best Law School in the Nation with 25th percentile LSAT scores of 163. If you are going to American University (ranked 48 in 2010, 75th percentile LSAT scores of 164), I can all but guarantee that you will feel like you have been shitted out and forgotten once you graduate.

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  25. 2-21 @9:30

    Oh God! Maury Povich!

    Whenever I see his face I feel like I have bugs crawling all over me.

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  26. Maury Povich knows more about law school and the legal profession than the American U. troll. I/m glad somebody with some sense posted from his area. G'town, GW and even George Mason are ranked ahead of American.

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  27. So, any Whittier law grads out there to provide testimony about their career experience?

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  28. http://www.law.whittier.edu/index/student-organizations/whittier-journal-of-child-family-advocacy/

    Look! As a student at Fourth Tier Whittier, you can write onto something called the Whittier Journal of Child & Family Advocacy! How will employers be able to overlook this magnificent achievement?!?!

    http://www.law.whittier.edu/index/student-organizations/public-interest-law-foundation/

    Or you can take part in the illustrious, breathtaking Public Interest Law Foundation. While the goal may be laudable, this will NOT pay the bills. Furthermore, it will not impress future legal employers. They will see you as another WhiTTTTier Law washout/loser. Hopefully, you do not need to participate as a client - after you have earned your law degree from this filthy commode.

    “Whittier Public Interest Law Foundation (PILF) is a nonprofit, student-directed organization. PILF promotes social justice lawyering, equal access to the law, and the empowerment of marginalized and underrepresented communities. We are dedicated to developing a service ethic among law students and to facilitating careers in public interest law. We welcome and encourage the participation of all Whittier Law students and alumni.”

    http://www.law.whittier.edu/index/student-organizations/juvenile-law-moot-court-competition/

    Whittier Law $chool hosts the annual Juvenile Law Moot Court Competition. Look at the following toilets, which participated in the 2010 contest: University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, John Marshall, Thomas M. Cooley, Chapman University, University of Virginia, University of California Hastings, West Virginia, Western State, Benjamin N. Cardozo, University of Cincinnati, Touro D. Fuchsburg, DePaul, Southern Illinois, American, Seton Hall. The list reads like a TTR marathon.

    http://www.law.whittier.edu/index/connect/alumni/giving/

    Look at this plea from alumnus Paul Kiesel:

    “Your support today to the Whittier Law Fund will help to improve the Law School’s reputation and enhances the value of our degree by investing in programs and faculty that draw the nation’s top legal minds to the institution.”

    Yes, the school has such a strong reputation THAT IT WAS RECENTLY ON PROBATION!! Maybe, someone can send this toilet $0.08, to show their appreciation and respect for this place.

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  29. Whitter Calf and Duquense Pa amaze me. They are both TTTT toilets, but they aren't new. What I mean is I don't expect high rankings or high employment from new schools. I due expect quality from older schools. Whitter is over 40 y.o. and Duquense over 50 y.o.. Both have large Alum bases, prestigious Alums, and good facilities. Yet, both can't crawl out of the TTTT ranking? What the hell happened to these older schools to force them to rank with Cooley and Appalachian and FAMU. Is someone in their administration dumb as f*ck or just incompetent?!

    theyuppieattorney.blogspot.com

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  30. Bottom line. WHittier Law School is a piece of shit. These poor saps will be competing against USC, San Diego and UCLA grads. There are some other good schools in Southern California. Who will even give Whittier lawyers the time of day?

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  31. "Nando you just love to kill the dreams of others. You only live once. if someone wants to be successful, they may as well chase their dream."

    Not sure how Nando feels about this, but here's a thought - borrow 50k from your credit card company, get an LLC, and start a business. Chase your dreams! If the business fails, you can discharge the debt in bankruptcy.

    Chasing dreams is a good thing

    6 figures of non-dischargeable student loan debt is a bad thing

    Just thought I'd clarify the situation for you.

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  32. To the moron who lives in Alexandria and attends GW. Being a computer science major and reading a bulletin board makes you an expert in the legal field, so thanks for setting me straight on job prospects. Stick to what you know, imbecile.

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  33. Whittier is a shit pile. That goes for the undergrad institution. If the school was on fucking probation why in god's name are they charging $38,000? This is a broken system. Anyone who doesn;t recognize that is a moron of epic proportions.

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  34. My D.C. firm just hired a Whittier grad at a starting salary of 110k a year so obviously the school isn't that bad.

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  35. That's excellent. What firm would that be?

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  36. Buzz Aldrin was born in New Jersey. This means that if you were born in New Jersey, you have a good chance of landing on the moon someday too.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Walter Payton played college ball at division I-AA Jackson State U. He was the best running back I ever saw. Therefore, Jackson State University produces the greatest NFL football players. Hold on. Jerry Rice went to Division I-AA Mississippi Valley State University. He was the greatest wide receiver in history. Bar none. That means Miss. Valley State produces the greatest football players.

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  38. Law Schools see rankings as a means to an end. They measure success by the amount of money they pull in, not the quality of their alumni or scholarship. From this perspective, it is easy to see why Cooley sees itself the equivalent of Harvard; they both are able to extract obscene amounts of tuition and stack students into classes like cordwood. Sure, Harvard puts on a veneer of prestige and tradition—but at the end of the day, it’s a money game for them too.

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  39. I keep going back to what someone else said. Whittier just got off ABA probation and these scoundrels are charging $38K. Fucking unreal.

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  40. Just started my own unaccredited anti ABA law school blog. Check it out. And post a link on your site if you could. Sorry to spam you, but i want to spread the word of alternate cheap way to go to law school. 4k a year! Take that ABA!!

    ABA NO WAY!!!!!

    http://abanoway.wordpress.com

    ReplyDelete
  41. WOW
    $68,110 estimated COA

    That's incredible amount of money to attend such a low tier school. I'm sure 99 % of those kids have parents paying for the entire thing though

    I don't know how anyone would attend such a low tier toilet without having a stable source of money coming in regardless of the job result.

    But then people really eat up the law school brochures and societal prestige

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  42. bill clinton's third legFebruary 23, 2011 at 8:59 PM

    I feel your pain. (Bites lower lip.) What can we do to make sure lawyers don't starve?

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  43. The lower-first-tiers are shitpiles too. Same shitty coursework, same shitty tuitions, same shitty job prospects.

    They differ from the lower-tiered schools mainly in that they ruin the lives of smarter and more deserving kids.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Continued from Febuary 24th 2011 1:53 AM

    I have been told that lots of Lawyers have large student loans. I haven't taken out a student loan so I don't have first hand experience on how they work. I must rely on the writing of others in this field as well.
    According to another newspaper of record 'The New York Times' in the article Student Debt and a Push for Fairness
    "If you run up big credit card bills buying a new home theater system and can’t pay it off after a few years, bankruptcy judges can get rid of the debt. They may even erase loans from a casino. But if you borrow money to get an education and can’t afford the loan payments after a few years of underemployment, that’s another matter entirely. It’s nearly impossible to get rid of the debt in bankruptcy court..." According to the policy paper No Way Out: Student Loans, Financial Distress, and the Need for Policy Reform written by Deanne Loonin, Esq. A Lawyer for the National Consumer Law Center. Federal Student loans have no statue of limitations with regards to collection. She further states on page 44 that almost every federal crime, except Murder and Treason, has a statue of limitations associated with it. Can you make an argument that student load defaulters are on par with Murders and Traitors? On Page 13 she argues that student loan law currently creates "Perverse, Reverse Incentives" She states "For lenders, delinquent loans often have less value than loans in default because
    the government guarantees close to full payment when default claims are filed. A 2002
    GAO report described the problem in greater detail. The traditional payments for
    guaranty agencies, according to the GAO, make it more financially beneficial for an
    agency to allow borrowers to default and then to try to collect rather than prevent
    default." If you are going to borrow money, Can you argue that this is a good situation to be in?

    Now, I would like to conclude that if you have Facts and Logic to back up your assertions, what ever they may be, I am willing to alter my perception to fit good arguments. For instance, before running into this website I use to think that All Lawyers are Rich, and had Cushy Jobs lined up for them.
    If on the other hand you have nothing but content free abuse, Well then you may wish to rethink your career choice as a lawyer. I have been told that mere ad hominem is not a successful argument strategy.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hello February 22, 2011 3:27 PM. I'm that Comp/Sci Masters Student from February 21, 2011 11:34 PM.

    If want to assume that I know nothing, then assume that I know nothing. Don't argue with me.

    Instead argue with Jason M. Dolin, Esq, Professor of law at Capital University Law School. In his Law Review Article Opportunity Lost: How Law School Disappoints Law Students,
    The Public, and the Legal Profession
    He argues that Law School is ineffective at teaching people to practice law, that the number of Law graduates and the indebtedness of said graduates harms lawyers and people who need the services of lawyers, and that law school are making so much money that their consciences, and the consciences of the universities they are attached to have been bought.

    Also argue with Steven J. Harper, Esq. Who is a professor at Northwestern University and a former partner at Krikland and Ellis. Here he says "Of course law schools are deceiving prospective students into incurring huge debt for degrees that aren't worth it" and also that "U.S. News & World Report is an aider and abettor." He argues that the quest for high prestige as determined by U.S. News and World Report has a negative effect on law schools. He also argues that schools have a responsibility to tell people about what being a lawyer actually entails, but that law-schools and institutions of undergraduate study are not doing this. He says that recent law school graduates are bitter about the work even if they land a high-paying job, and that one of his friends, another law professor, feels dirty reporting his school's cooked employment numbers to U.S. News and World Report.

    At that Newspaper of Record 'The Wall Street Journal' We can read the article Bar Raised for Law-Grad Jobs. In it we can see the number of summer internships for law students dropping like a rock. Argue with the numbers 'The Wall Street Journal' is giving you.

    We can also look at this Bimodal Distribution graph It shows salaries for lawyers. The low hump on that graph has a mode of 40K, which is slightly less than your average American. The average American also doesn't have a law degree. If you're going to American University or Whittier, you might want to ask yourself what your chances are of being in the low hump versus the high hump. Argue with those humps. Prove to yourself that you will end up in that high hump.

    Apparently lawyers have worse mental health then the rest of us, according to a blog post Here.
    15%-18% of Attorneys have substance abuse problems, she says.
    1/3 of Attorneys are dissatisfied with their jobs and would choose a different profession if they could, she says.
    Attorneys have the highest rates of depression and suicide of any profession, she says.
    Suicide is the third leading cause of death for Attorneys in Canada, she says.
    Argue with those statistics, preferably while sober.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Taken from the recruitment brochure from the University of Utah School of Law:

    "Because of our status as a state-supported law school, our students bear responsibility for under 40% of the cost of their education."

    Based on tuition and fees of $20k per year, that means Utah's overburdened tax payers have to bear the cost of over $30,000 per year per student in order to produce graduates in a field where there is by all measures a long running gross oversupply of.

    Doesn't anybody else have a problem with this?

    ReplyDelete
  47. @512:

    I have a problem with such arrangements, and if I were a citizen of Utah, I'd be royally pissed.

    If the generations above us have proven one thing, it's that they're completely and utterly incompetent at governance.

    This quote has been oft repeated, but I just have to tear into it again:

    "Nando you just love to kill the dreams of others. You only live once. if someone wants to be successful, they may as well chase their dream"

    At one point in time, I had a dream of playing 3rd base for the Dodgers. Also once had a dream of being a rock musician. And I once had a dream of living in a hotel and getting paid $1000 a day to screw an endless train of playboy playmates and notable actresses.

    The point is that sometimes people have really stupid dreams that they should abandon as soon as possible. Being an Olympic athlete is a stupid dream unless you are a biological freak. Being an astronaut is similarly a stupid dream.

    If you prove poor at writing; are lousy at thinking practically, empirically, and analytically; suck at networking with people; or are unable to get into a non-low-tier school, being a high-powered lawyer is just as stupid of a dream as landing on the moon or getting Penelope Cruz to eat whipped cream of your genitalia. It's just not going to happen.

    Telling people who get a 150 on the LSAT to not give up on their dream of being a lawyer is as bad as giving them meth, although at least with meth they may kick the habit in a few years. But you can't have an intervention for non-dischargable debt.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Penelope Cruz...hmmmm...

    ReplyDelete
  49. The OP is off on insulting WLS, slightly exaggerated. I am a WLS grad. I work for free right now at a place I'm not going to say, and have just started to get interviews for full-time, paid positions, though I will admit they are far and few in between.

    One of my friends, also WLS, got hired with no experience as in-house legal counsel at a major financial institution. As far as the comments on tuition, I do not know what to say, as I do not have any student loans (had that scholarship the first year, and rationed out my money plus applied for a partial scholarship afterwards - i gave getting rid of student loans entirely lots of thought before and during law school). The basic trend I have noticed is this - if you do come from a lower-ranked school like mine, without a recession, and you pass the bar on your first try, you can get a job starting around 60-70K a year.

    However, with the shit market, and of course, over-saturation, experience is everything - the more you know how to do without being told by a senior attorney, the more valuable you are. Plus, I'd like to be clear, I had no problem working during law school, and had fairly good paying jobs. However, after 2009, our entire school took a hit and no one was hired at alot of on-campus hiring events. Still, there are some summer associate programs for the top performers. The opportunity is still there, but entry-level is gone.

    It's the only reason I swallowed my pride and decided to work for free, to get some real valuable experience in the type of law I want to specialize in.

    One of my friends who came out of whittier bills at $50 an hour right now, he busted his ass during law school, both in school and kicking ass as a law clerk. Basically, what i am saying is, yes, it's not a great school, and yes, lots of students owe lots in student loans - but the ones who really take the classes seriously, AND working part-time during law school just as seriously, are doing pretty well, and will be making six-figures in a few years, as far as I can tell. I know student loans really suck balls, but as a person who has none, but also no real job yet, lacking the ability to generate income is 1000 times worse than any amount of student loans. It's just wrong to think nowadays that passing the bar equals a job - it doesn't.

    I think solo practice is the kiss of death if you have just fucked around for 3 years, but if you know what you are doing, and have a serious network to get started off with, you can make some serious cash. I have had to turn down at least 3-4 potential clients because I simply cannot give them legal advice, since I didn't stick with one single job during law school.

    If you come from Harvard, you can get into big law right away, from a shit-school, as much in-the-field experience as possible before you take the bar exam, and after but before your results come out, are just as important, if not more important than your actual grades. THe one thing I wish i would have done differently was work at one single place throughout law school, and in retrospect, I wouldn't have worried too much about the pay, just the value of the experience. Pay comes after you get sworn in, if you have paid your dues. Just my humble opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Dear February 22, 2011 3:27 PM,

    Maybe there are lots of jobs for recent JD holders that I simply cannot see? If you could show them to members of this board that would be nice, and far more useful to everyone than calling me an imbecile.
    Google can't seem to see these jobs either, but it can see Articles like This --> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704866204575224350917718446.html
    Which show internships and offers to recent graduates dropping like a rock.

    ReplyDelete
  51. A law student provides invaluable information about law school, applying, transferring, succeeding, using a law degree for a non-legal career and dealing with all the nerds along the way.

    considering law school

    ReplyDelete
  52. Great blog! I recently dropped out of Whittier Law School to pursue something that makes me money -- Computer Science/Computer Engineering. I hated Whittier Law School because the faculty do a good job of lying to the students about the jobs that are out there and available to you, if you network properly. It is all bullshit! The law professors at this school are full of shit except for one that I'd love to have sex with. If it wasn't for me being so attracted to his particular professor at Whittier Law School, she would suck donkey balls just like the campus. I hated the location of this campus, I hated the people that were my fellow peers, and I hated a big chunk of the faculty because they make suckers out of people attending Whittier Law School in pursuit of a law degree. Whittier Law School should really be closed and turned into a gas station.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Yes, but you look at the ranking of public schools. Frankly, outside of law enforcement for the school or an appreciation of employers to make hiring decisions, not the public's concerns about how law schools ranked.

    ReplyDelete
  54. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  55. To the piece of garbage who posted at 8:47 pm,

    Learn some basic grammar, punctuation and sentence structure, cockroach. These may be reasons why you are stocking shelves at Wal-Mart, bitch. If you want to throw reason, logic an facts overboard, be my guest. When you get your ignorant ass run over by the train, don't tell anyone that you weren't warned.

    Also, I have never seen "District 9." Are you referring to the part of town where $5 buys an hour with your mother?

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=74.160.96.122

    Apparently, you cannot handle the truth. Do you have your heart set on being a lawyer, moron? Guess what, stupid bastard? There are too many law schools pumping out far too many JDs - for the number of available attorney positions.

    http://nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

    The law school Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates. Only 28,901 jobs required bar passage. Could it be possible that there are too many law schools producing FAR TOO MANY lawyers?!?!

    You do not have what it takes to be anywhere near the top of your TTTT class. Let’s see how happy and well-adjusted you are after being strapped down with $120K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, and no job.

    ReplyDelete
  56. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=74.160.96.122

    How are things in Atlanta’s suburbs, cockroach? You come across as an angry white guy with a tiny penis. You cannot even make an argument as to why law school is a good investment. You scream like a bitch, i.e. “I don’t want the truth!! I’m going to law school anyway!! Die already!” Anyway, when you are done blowing homeless men, are they impressed as you tell them that you are in law school?

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Mar 12 2011 6:32pm 74.160.96.122 2 actions 8m 56s
    Mar 12 2011 5:50pm 74.160.96.122 1 action 8m 40s
    Mar 12 2011 5:54am 74.160.96.122 1 action 8m 40s
    Mar 11 2011 8:28pm 74.160.96.122 5 actions 27m 39s
    Mar 11 2011 7:39pm 74.160.96.122 1 action

    By the way, you are attending the finest law college and you need help making a decision about law school?! Which is it, borderline retard? Be honest for one minute: is Whittier Law Sewer the only school desperate enough to accept your mentally-unbalanced ass so far?! If so, you are MUCH better learning the truth now. Unless, of course, you would rather figure it out after pissing away $140K in student debt and three years of your miserable existence.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings

    Take a look at average law student indebtedness, by law school, Bitch. Seeing that you are impervious to reason, I don’t expect this to penetrate your thick skull. But I am still looking out for you anyway, you pile of human waste.

    Apparently, you are not even smart enough to get into your local swamps, such as Mercer or Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School. We both know you couldn’t get into Emory, UG, or Georgia State if you threatened to set yourself on fire.

    http://www.keytlaw.com/blog/2010/08/law-grad-coffee-barista/

    Here is a look at some MUCH SMARTER than you. A 26-year-old lawyer was serving coffee, after graduating from law school. Shannon Hodder graduated from Georgia State University – in the top half of her class. She now owes $60K in student loans, and landed school, and sent out more than one hundred resumes – resulting in one interview and no callbacks. As a licensed attorney, she also took part-time jobs and unpaid internships. She lives with her fiancĂ© at her grandmother’s house. She was also making $12 an hour as a law clerk at 15 hours a week.

    Do you get the point now, scat-muncher? If you are wondering why your 3-12-11 6:32 pm comment was deleted, it is because you had NOTHING substantive to say, dickface. When you can provide a cogent argument - or exhibit an IQ above room temperature - your comments will be welcome, at that point. Have fun in the urban blight known as Atlanta, bitch.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Let us not forget that Whittier also enrolls over a hundred freshman students in it summer programs. Then withholds grades till after they complete the summer program. They then kick out over a third of these freshman students because they kick out the bottom third of the freshman class. Then the students don't get grades and the classes are not counted toward anything. Which according to the feds if you don't get grades and it doesn't count then you are not obligated to pay back the loans for those classes but most students don't know that.

    This school is such a scam. The only reason the bar rates are up is because they kick out over half the students before they get to the bar. Who wants to go to a school like that where you get a crappy job after and end up paying two grand a month for thirty years just to pay off your loans and only make around $45k a year.

    YES IT'S A PILE OF SHIT!

    ReplyDelete
  58. God, I live and work near Whitter (I am not an attorney or an aspiring attorney, I am going for my M.S. in something reasonably useful and will be 50K in stafford loans in debt) and no one gives two-shits about that school or its graduates. People I know that go to CHAPMAN of all places scoff at it hardcore...

    ReplyDelete
  59. I will agree with your overall argument that law schools are consciously accepting more students than is demanded by the legal market. This problem plagues the whole educational system and is not particular to the legal education. I would not have an issue with law schools and other institutions accepting more students than market demand if the cost of education directly correlated to the benefit conferred by the education. Unfortunately this is not the case, and to the contrary law students are charged an exorbitant amount of money with the promise that they are enhancing their earning potential. It is obviously a scam. Why is it that I can go borrow tons of money for nonsense such as trips to Europe, cars, homes and booze and file for bankruptcy if shit hits the fan. On the other hand debt incurred due to a legal education follows me to the grave. It is very lucrative system, that benefits schools and lending institutions. The laws related to lending need to be reformed. For the first time in US history educational debt is about to overcome personal debt in the US. That is a scary fact.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Someone said "Man-Hoe." Were you referring to me? I'll take anything with a big ass attached to it! That said, Whittier Law still sucks. Here's an update on my life as a Whittier Law dropout. I've lost 15lbs, I've pursued a 2nd BS in Computer Science from a decent school full of hot chicks. I've mastered Physics and welcome Calculus. Upon graduating, I'll start caking in $50k or more with minimal debt. This is more than Whittier Law School could have ever done for me. Whittier Law School sucks, and you are only fueling the car payments mansion payments of the faculty. Learn you lesson idiots! You are not the exception! No one is! Muahahahhaha! I'll have a nice programmer job, and all of you idiots from Whittier Law School will be lawyers full of pride and debt. Suckers! How does it feel to take it in the ass without protection? I sure as hell don't know, but I bet the Whittier Law School students know! Muahahahahaha!

    ReplyDelete
  61. I have a few typos on my comment -- sue me! You need the money more than I do, lol! Muahahahha.

    Man-Hoe out!

    ReplyDelete
  62. Is going to a TTTT school bad if you are near the top of the lass? Just wondering. lass = class. backspace broke.

    ReplyDelete
  63. April 5, 2011 4:57 PM

    Well done, son.

    Kids, are you listening? Stay out of these third and fourth tier toilet bowls. IF you cannot get into an elite law school, retake LSAT or do something else.

    A non-elite law degree is most likely a festering boil you will have difficulty removing. Absent serious connections or significant and valuable non-law contacts and experiences, the TTT law degree is dangerous in this very down legal market.

    That is all.

    ReplyDelete
  64. one of the co-producers of "Black Swan" (yes, that movie) with its +300M gross is a Whittier law (also UC Berkeley undergrad & William Morris Agency)...if you google carefully you will find his name....at least one graduate hit the big time$$$$$

    ReplyDelete
  65. As one of the few people who actually graduated from Whittier Law School, this school has a lot to offer. Many students who graduated from top schools actually started their legal careers at Whittier Law School. Whittier Law School is a filter school to USC, Loyola, etc etc. Whittier Law School does have a good reputation despite the delusion yet bitter human being who actually dedicated time to writing this blog. Although Whittier does have a low bar passage rate, that does not exactly determine the the intelligence nor the success of future success. I know plenty of Whittier alumni, who have success legal and non-legal careers in some of the top firms throughout the nation. So before you go bashing any more schools how about you talk to me in three years after you have grown up and realized that where you went to law school is not important, since obviously from this blog post your a complete douche.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Does this blog really think it will be taken seriously? Not only is it evident that you take on multiple personalities to argue with people, but your disgusting language and attacks show how pathetic you are. You're nothing but a bitter drop out or you're stuck working at a public defenders office, not a DC firm.

    ReplyDelete
  67. To the piece of trash who posted on June 19, 2011 at 9:59 am, as well as the sensitive vagina who posted the June 17, 2011 5:15 pm comment:

    Are you pretending to be this dense?! I am proud to stand by all of my blog entries and comments, bitch. I have nothing to hide; I am simply providing truthful information about the law school industry. The morons that you see defending these dung heaps known as law schools are actual posters. Do you see where this blog has had over 279,000 visitors - since mid-November 2009?!?! Go click on the Flag Counter box, bitch, and see for yourself.

    Have you noticed how many graduates from these trash pits support the points that this blog makes? They have been through the law school experience, and they know the score. If YOU are intent on attending a piece of trash law school, then go ahead. Take out as many student loans as you possibly can, mental deficient. When you grow some hair on your little balls, come back here and tell everyone that you made a foolish decision.

    The toilet’s own charts show that those lucky enough to land lawyer jobs are working in toilet law firms of 2-10 attorneys. You do understand that these small firms feature long hours, low pay, no prestige, and often NO BENEFITS, correct?!?! If you attend this sewage pit, your chances of landing Biglaw are about the same as you becoming the starting power forward for the LA Lakers next season.

    This blog relies on facts, figures, charts, graphs and industry statements - which collectively show that law schools are producing FAR TOO MANY graduates for the number of available attorney positions. (I know that this reliance on cold, hard facts bothers you. Get over it, vagina.) Furthermore, law school tuition is SKYROCKETING - even as the job market dries up. Do you see how this reality negatively impacts recent law grads, moron?!?!

    By the way, I graduated from Third Tier Drake on May 15, 2009. I received a full-tuition scholarship to attend this dump. My wife worked full-time, while I worked in the summers. We kept our living costs down, but yet I incurred $37K in student loan debt - for living expenses. Several of my classmates took out $120K+ to attend this school. Many of them are NOT practicing law. Des Moines is not nearly as saturated as the Southern California legal market, where WhiTTTTier Law Sewer is located.

    http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18

    Once again, your (alleged) alma mater was recently on PROBATION FROM THE ABA. That is akin to Charlie Sheen turning down a free blow job from your mother.

    Ball-less wonder, how do you like how I shoved your baseless assumptions right up your ass?!?! In the final, brutal analysis, Whittier Law School truly is ONE OF THE ABSOLUTE WORST LAW SEWERS that I have covered on this blog. It is down there with Thomas Jefferson School of Law and Thomas M. Cooley Law School.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Lastly, let's take a look at how seriously this blog is taken by the media and “professors”:

    A few “law professors” openly support of the basic premises of these blogs – even if some have not actually endorsed the blogs. Brian Tamanaha (Washington U. of St. Louis), Lucille Jewel (The John Marshall Law School), J. Gordon Hylton (Marquette), Richard Sander (UCLA), William Henderson (Indiana-Bloomington), Herwig Schlunk (Vanderbilt), Erik Gerding (U. of New Mexico) and Paul Campos (U. of Colorado-Boulder) come to mind. In respective order:

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html

    http://mjlst.umn.edu/uploads/d3/21/d321a2fbd32797b62945a82256a0411a/121_jewel.pdf

    http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2010/07/29/best-of-the-blogs-4/

    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060_print.html

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2009/06/the-end-of-an-era-the-bi-modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SSRN-id1497044.pdf

    http://www.theconglomerate.org/2009/11/incredible-shrinking-law-school.html

    http://www.tnr.com/article/87251/law-school-employment-harvard-yale-georgetown?page=0,1

    How do you spell "credibility," Idiot?!?!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

    “Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”

    When is the last time the NYT Sunday edition quoted you, bitch?!?!

    This blog has now been cited to, in three law review articles, ABA Journal, law.com, National Law Journal, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  69. I dropped out of Shittier Law School to pursue Computer Science, and I love it. I'll finish up my 2nd BS in Computer Science by the end of next year, and then I'll pursue an MS in Computer Science. So far my debt is nowhere near what I would have if I chose to continue wasting my time at Shittier Law School. Lastly, I'll be able to get a nice tech job starting out earning a minimum of $65k a year and will top out over $100k once I rack up experience, lol. I've done more for myself by dropping out of Shittier Law School than Shittier Law School would ever do for me in a damn lifetime. All of you who defend Shittier Law School are soulless, spineless, pieces of human shit, and deserve the miserable financial messes that you are currently in. "Nando" is providing an invaluable service to the legal community and the world. Don't hate on him because he thought of something so simple, yet remarkable. Great work, "Nando"! Shittier Law School sucks, and the professors are simply using your infamous "1L naivete" to swindle you out of tuition dollars and time. Whittier rhymes with Shittier! Learn it, love it!

    ReplyDelete
  70. To 7:53,

    Thank you for those kind words. It is comical that apologist cockroaches defend "law professors" and deans who are making a killing off of this scam. Furthermore, it is pathetic that they choose to attack someone who is providing a free public service. I am simply trying to prevent people from committing financial suicide. My guess is that many of these trolls are hired by the industry.

    I am glad to hear of your wise decision to drop out of this cess pool, and head into a more lucrative field. As others have pointed out, the law schools do not care whether their grads work at Starbucks or in a toiletlaw firm. Hell, the pigs will count them as "employed" either way. You clearly made the right choice. In the final analysis, one should look at law school PRIMARILY as a financial decision. Too many dolts attend law school, because they believe that it will enhance their prestige, help them get laid, or open doors of opportunity.

    The "professors," delusional lemmings and paid idiots point to the aggressive nature of this blog, and cry foul. The fact remains that I am not charging $38K for one year of fourth tier "legal education" - and TTTT job prospects. I am not the one inflating employment and salary figures. Lastly, I am not knowingly pumping out far too many graduates - for the available number of lawyer positions.

    In the end, these pigs and bitches understand that my tone and visual devices have helped garner the attention of mainstream press, such as The New York Times, Slate, Time, Newsweek, et al. This is why they continue to moan and cry about the site. Have you noticed that these swine cannot refute the facts?

    ReplyDelete
  71. I'm going to post this to remind the readers of this blog that Whittier Law School (WLS) is corrupt, and does not care about you. Some of you are delusional and think that a JD from WLS will make you money, but you are wrong. A JD from WLS will get you a job (possibly), but not a career. Anyways, read this:

    On February 2, 2010, Whittier Law School student Sarah Meyabadi filed an unlimited civil action against Whittier Law School for fraud. Among Meyabadi''s allegations are that WLS changed her grades and graduation requirements to prevent her from graduating - because WLS decision-makers fear this student wouldn't pass the bar exam on the her first try. (It seems Whittier College and its creature organization, Whittier Law School, need to be reminded that not only did the People of the State of California elect as our Governor a man, Pete Wilson, who didn't pass the bar exam until his fourth try, but that Whittier College invited Tony Villaraigosa to campus as a Commencement speaker and bestowed an honorary Whittier degree on him, and Villaraigosa has taken the bar exam four times and still hasn't passed!) The truth is that Sarah Meyabadi met all requirements for graduation from Whittier Law School and WLS committed a fraud for ulterior motives.

    Clearly, Whittier Law School grasps that its graduates need to perform better on the bar exam, and that this school needs to improve placement of its graduates, but at the same time refuses to stop recruiting minority students for whom the school can get money from the student and the federal government, and, rather than improve its education of students in the law, continues to defraud students and scapegoat staff for problems caused by Whittier Law School's top administrators, President Sharon Herzberger and Dean Penelope Bryan.

    More information on WLS can be found at the following link:
    http://whittiergate.com/aba.htm#aba2

    Trust me when I tell you this, WLS is crap, and will hopefully be shut-down one day.

    "Nando," keep up the great work!

    ReplyDelete
  72. Just passing through..

    This information is taken directly from the "Whittier Gate" website:

    Whittier Law School Gate

    "PROFESSOR WINS BIG IN FRAUD FILING AGAINST WLS !

    I. Nelson Rose, a faculty member at Whittier Law School for 29 years, a tenured professor and an internationally recognized authority on gambling and related issues, filed an unlimited civil action against Whittier College and Whittier Law School alleging fraud in 2006.

    On June 3, 2010, the Superior Court of Los Angeles County awarded now former Whittier Law School Professor Nelson Rose $850,000.00. "

    ANOTHER PROFESSOR SETTLES WITH WLS

    Another now former WLS faculty member, African-American Assistant Professor Marcy E. Peek, has also reportedly settled with Whittier for six fIgures. The story goes that Dean Penelope Bryan (Rollins College, University of Florida) told Marcy Peek (Yale, Harvard Law) that there was no place for Peek at WLS. If Whittier's serious about becoming a law school with a high bar exam pass rate and placement of grads with top law firms, shouldn't that be the other way around? (Student comments on a rate your professor site show that bright students appreciated Peek's intelligence and standards while not so bright students wished they had avoided her classes.)"


    To all you morons that love Whittier Law School, and will go spend tuition money to earn a JD from Whittier Law School, please realize that your tuition dollars are used to settle with ex-professors and students that sue Whittier Law School for fraud.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Okay guys, be realistic here. Yes Whittier Law School is not UCLA or Hastings. And of course it is not an ivy league school. It is what you make of your education! While in UCLA you expect amazing professors that is not the case with a few professors at Whittier. But when you go to law school, it is you who puts in the effort to become a successful lawyer. To say successful lawyers do not come from Whittier would be the most subjective, one-dimensional stand that one could take. If a doctor graduates not from UPenn, or UCSF Medical School, but instead goes to a local medical school, is he surely not going to become a successful doctor? The one writing this article takes pinpoint issues with this law school and adds the most unsupported, subjective, and clearly personal element to his discussion. I have witnessed Whittier graduates make outstanding contributions to the field of all. And without a doubt, many dedicated students find themselves employed with 'name' law firms for an outstanding starting salary. Earning yourself a name in the field, does not depend on what school you went. Your 'great' school is a bonus, that will be entirely worthless, if you go in the field with an attitude that things will fall as you wish in front of you. Your effort and dedication is what makes you into a successful attorney, not the name of your school. To think in the way the author of this article thinks, is to truly embarrass yourself. That consequently shows you have a terrible understanding of what it takes to succeed in life, regardless of the field you choose. But if you are indeed a lawyer, I would go further to simply laugh at you, because you still have not learned what is relevant and what is not in a particular situation.

    ReplyDelete
  74. To the piece of trash above,

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=71.108.137.32

    How is life in Long Beach, CA, prospective law student?! Do the facts about law school hurt your little feelings, cockroach?!?!

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Oct 17 2011 12:47am 71.108.137.32 4 actions 1m 51s blogger.com/comment-iframe.g
    Oct 17 2011 12:27am 71.108.137.32 1 action 10s google.com whittier law graduates make more money than chapman law graduates

    "Okay guys, be realistic here. Yes Whittier Law School is not UCLA or Hastings. And of course it is not an ivy league school."

    Try to be honest, bitch. Whittier Law School was RECENTLY ON PROBATION FROM THE ABA!! The ABA has loose “standards” and rarely places schools on probation, dung beetle. You cannot even put this dung heap in the same category of decent regional law schools, which happen to be TTTs.

    Also, learn how to read, moron. Did I ever say "No successful lawyers come from this school"?!?! The odds are firmly stacked against you, if you attend this festering trash pit, however. How do you like having your idiotic straw man argument shoved up your ass, bitch?!

    "The one writing this article takes pinpoint issues with this law school and adds the most unsupported, subjective, and clearly personal element to his discussion.”

    You are dead wrong, loser. I have provided links from the following sources: Whittier Law Sewer; US “News” & World Report; Top Law Schools; Law School Numbers; Guidestar; the NALP Class of 2009 National Summary Report. I also provided a list of “law professors” - with URLs - who support some of the premises of the scamblogs. Once again, borderline retard: This blog relies on facts, figures, charts, graphs and industry statements - which collectively show that law schools are producing FAR TOO MANY graduates for the number of available attorney positions.

    Readers have provided hyperlinks to WSJ articles; Jason Dolin’s law review piece, which documents that American law schools fail their students and the public; the bi-modal distribution graph - which shows salaries for recent JDs; etc. In contrast, YOU have not supported your anecdote with anything substantive, you pile of waste.

    “I have witnessed Whittier graduates make outstanding contributions to the field of all. And without a doubt, many dedicated students find themselves employed with 'name' law firms for an outstanding starting salary."

    Name some examples, cretin. Keep in mind that those EXCEPTIONS more than likely had strong family, business or political connections BEFORE entering law school. Richard Nixon went to Whittier College for undergrad. Does this mean that the school is excellent?! Lastly, if one’s effort determines their success in the law - a dubious assertion, at best - then what the hell is the point of spending three years in law school, incurring an additional $100K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  75. Wow. Whittier Law School has supporters and defenders? They must be on the payroll or something. The school is a pathetic piece of shit of the lowest order. Flush this turd and leave the fan on.

    ReplyDelete
  76. I feel late to the party!

    I just happened to find this on a random Google search. I'm considering donating to Whittier Law School and was looking for news of current events. I graduated from WLS in 08 and can echo much of what's on here.

    Sure the school is over priced but it does serve a purpose.

    For fuckups like me that partied their ass off in college and got a dismal GPA but wanted to take another stab at academic roads to success, it was a good experience. The school drops the bottom third of the class after first year so you actually have to pay attention to your grades for a couple semesters. After that, I think they'll be more than happy to take your money.

    Yeah it's a shitpile, but it's my shitpile and I'm glad I got accepted and made it through. I guess your conversation really should be whether we need a law school that gives fuckups like me a second chance and how much they should pay for that opportunity. I owe a fuckton of money from my JD at WLS but I have no regrets, I'd do it again. Maybe I need my head examined...

    ReplyDelete
  77. Whittier Law School is shittier than shit. And it produces shit. Why do I say that? Well, just look at the dummy above who got financially raped by this shithole but says he has no regrets and would do it again. Is the school literally taking in retards? This school was on ABA probation for Christ's sake. Do you have any idea how hard that is to accomplish? That's like losing 20 straight baseball games.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Where you get your legal education can open some doors for you, but your education will give you the opportunity to at least knock. As with any job if you knock on enough doors someone will open the door. Life is about selling yourself. If you can do that, when you knock, doors will open. Not everyone that wants to be an attorney can get into a top tier law school so; should they give up their dreams? If you're intention is to get rich practicing law then you might want to rethink your motivation for being an attorney. No matter what you choose to do in life, do it well, and the money will take care of itself.

    ReplyDelete

 
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