Tuesday, March 1, 2011

Pioneers in Solid Waste: Second Tier Lewis & Clark Law School



Tuition: A full-time student at this law school will be charged $30,456 in tuition and fees, for the 2010-2011 academic year. Those attending the prestigious, part-time Evening Division will only pay $22,826 in tuition and fees, for the current school year.

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same document, the school lists insurance costs of $1,280 per year; $50 in the annual Loan Repayment Assistance Program fee; clinic fee of $170; $1000 for books; and living expenses of $17,142 per year. For a full time student, this additional $19,912 would bring the estimated COA to $50,368.

For $ome rea$on, most law schools only consider living costs for the 9 month school year. Is this because most law students only have living expenses for nine months out of the year?! My guess is that Lewis & Clark is no different. If this is the case, then living expenses for the year will amount to $22,856. This would bring the total COA - for the 2010-2011 school year - to $56,082.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+3

Ranking: According to Ass-Clown Robert Morse and the drones at US News & World Report, this school is the 64th most amazing, exhilarating and spine-tingling law school in the United States. Hell, it’s almost in the top 30% of ABA-accredited law schools. What an accomplishment!

http://www.lclark.edu/law/offices/career_services/uncommon/index.php

Alleged Employment Placement Rate: I prefer to allow this commode to state its figures:

“Of the 235 graduates in the Class of 2009, 221 reported actively seeking post-graduate work. Of the 221 seeking, 207 (89.6%) reported securing employment and 10 (4.3%) graduates reported enrolling in full-time degree programs.”

Actually, 207/221 = 93.7 percent. (Conversely, if you were including all graduates in this calculation, then 207/235 = 88.1%.) Is that what you would like us to believe?! Also, 10/221 = 4.5%. Is it your claim that a combined 98.2 percent, of those seeking employment, are employed or enrolled in a full-time program?!?!

Claimed Starting Salary Info: This same page SHOWS that only 79 graduates of the Class of 2009 provided salary information. This means that a mere 38.2% of the employed grads bothered to report this info! Why would that be?!?! This being the case, the median starting salary for full-time positions requiring bar passage is $62,000. Imagine what the overall median would be, if all 207 employed members of this graduating class had furnished their salary info.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad_debt

Law Student Indebtedness: Apparently, the tramps and hobos at US News are still “working to fix this problem.”

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/930/386/2009-930386858-05c10bb0-9.pdf

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Let’s head over to pages 35 and 36 of Lewis & Clark College’s 2009 Form 990, so we can see discover how well the “professors“ are doing. Dean Robert Klonoff made $265,956 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for 2008! He received $224,418 in base compensation; $5,000 in bonus and incentive compensation; and $36,538 in nontaxable benefits. Wait, there are more gluttons at the trough.

Take a look at the TOTAL COMPENSATION figures for the following “professors of law”: Edward Brunet, $212,595; William Funk, $200,825; Brian Blum, $189,436; Craig Johnson, $183,661; and Susan Mandiberg, $188,582. “Teaching law” and archaic legal theory can be a very lucrative career, indeed.

http://www.lclark.edu/law/law_reviews/environmental_law/

As a student at this second tier sewer, you will have the rare opportunity to write onto the nation’s oldest law review devoted solely to environmental law issues. Imagine the reaction when you tell friends, neighbors, employers and beautiful women that you are a student editor at Environmental Law!!

http://www.lclark.edu/law/offices/admissions/question_of_the_week/

Look at my submission for the Admissions Office “Question of the Week”: “Why does the 64th best law school in the U.S. insist on charging its students $30,456 in annual tuition and fees?”

http://www.lclark.edu/law/departments/global_law/

Look! You can earn a cerTTTificaTTTe in Global Law!! All your childhood hopes and dreams can come true! Yay! Be careful who you inform of your “credential.” You wouldn’t want Salma Hayek breaking into your house, climbing on top of you, running her nails down your chest, and slamming your dome against the headboard, would you?!?!

Conclusion: This school is an overpriced sewage pit. You do not need to take out $100K-$165K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE loans, in order to work in the non-profit world. The school itself notes that only 79 of all 207 employed graduates - from the Class of 2009 - reported their salary to the school. The median starting salary for jobs requiring a law license was not great, i.e. $62,000. Think about those JDs who could not find legal employment - or those struggling to make ends meet, on a toiletlawyer salary. If you simply MUST be an attorney at all costs – i.e. your life will end unless you attain this goal – then go for it. Just don’t say you weren’t warned, idiot.

59 comments:

  1. Another good writeup, Nando. I thought this school had a decent reputation, but placement looks abysmal.

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  2. See the image on this article? My interpretation is the run down shacks represent the school, the piles of garbage represent the graduates future and the water represents the ocean since the school is in Portland. Hey, if you look further the wall from the shack to the garbage heap represents the bridge to nowhere. Nice touch.

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  3. I met a Lewis & Clark law grad in Los Angeles. He finished in 2008 and he has been working as a "file clerk" for a big law firm for the past 2-3 years. It's pretty pathetic to have 125k in loans and work for 14 bucks an hour.

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  4. Be sure to check out their Environmental Law program! Some of the faculty and students are so determined to protect the environment that they don't wash their hands after going to the bathroom to save water! Just don't shake hands with them!

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  5. http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-10970-the_young_and_the_jobless.html


    Name: Emily Jackson
    Age: 34
    Job status: Unemployed
    Twitter message to Portland: “As it turns out, they stop sending loan checks when you graduate from law school. Now what am I supposed to do?”
    So, you have a law degree but no job. How did that happen?
    I just graduated from Lewis Clark this May and sat for the bar exam on July 27 and 28. I am unemployed at this point, as are most of my classmates. So many of the jobs that people offered before we graduated were rescinded because of the recession. A lot of the big east schools that graduate fancy law folks are coming out this way and taking the jobs that used to go to people from U of O and Lewis Clark.
    That has to suck.
    It totally sucks. I did just apply to 24 Hour Fitness online, so I’ve got that going for me.
    How much debt are you carrying?
    My law school debts and my undergrad debts [together] are about $120,000. But again, I think that a lot of the graduates are in the same boat, and that helps just to sort of put it in perspective.
    What are you doing for money?
    I am draining the rest of my loans, and relying on family—which is not what I was hoping to do right after law school. My boyfriend [a Lewis Clark student] and I may move in together—he’s renting a fancy condo that he can’t afford anymore either. So whereas we would never take money into consideration a year ago when we talked about it, we’re talking about it now.
    It says on your survey that you still eat out for almost every meal, though.
    Oh, gosh, that was a month ago, wasn’t it? Now I’m on food stamps—$200 a month. Isn’t that a trip?
    Bummer.
    It was a really heavy bummer. There was, I think, five of us that went down within two days of graduating and applied for food stamps. It was really interesting to sit with the counselor—each one of us, you’d fill out your highest degree of education, and we would write, “J.D., Lewis Clark Law School,” and everyone was totally shocked.
    Do you ever think about leaving Portland?
    Think about it, yes, but not seriously—I don’t know where I would go. I’m another tattooed white girl on a bike; this is really the only city that would have me.

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  6. If Salma is impressed by global law, wait till she gets a load of my entertainment law certificate.

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  7. Lewis and Clark grads are failures. If you don't believe Nando, take the word of the Lewis and Clark's Career Service Office. The CSO dubbed its graduates failures when it reset the Symplicity password to "fail8ure".

    http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/lewis-clark-law-school-subtly-insults-its-alumni/

    I can't believe I scooped Nando - a great way to start March.

    Cheers,
    Stephen

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  8. "... the piles of garbage represent the graduates future and the water represents the ocean since the school is in Portland. Hey, if you look further the wall from the shack to the garbage heap represents the bridge to nowhere."

    All the current, unemployed Lewis & Clark students who were in the environmental law program can now clean this mess up ... free of charge of course - what'd you actually expect to get paid as an attorney coming out of L&C???

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  9. How's y'all doin' todays? Shit, lemme tell what Ol' Colonel Sanders is up to.

    http://www.kfc.com/menu/desserts.asp

    Check dis out. Look what The Fucking Colonel cooked up. Heh heh. Yea-eah. How you like dat? I guaran-goddamn-tee ya these little apple pie minis taste betta anythang your wife or girfriend can come up wit'.

    http://www.kfc.com/menu/bigbox.asp

    Ya's got a big appetite, ya say. You's wanna be a big man? Then git your ass down here and down a fucking variety Big Box meal.

    Oh shit. I'ma jus' gettin' started. Ya's gots a law degree from Lewis & Clark? Why didn't ya jus' say so? Cat gots ya tongue? Don't wanna help Lewis & Clark reach 100 percent 'ployment? I's gotsa job for ya. Can ya handle washing out mah grease pits.

    An' don' be lettin' no emplyees be takin' no baths in mah sink. Ya hear me?

    http://www.redding.com/photos/galleries/2008/dec/09/splish-splash/8844/#section_header

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  10. And the saddest part? This dump is the best law school in Oregon. Run!

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  11. Lewis and Clark were both landed elites. They never would've been selected to explore the Louisiana Territory had Lewis not been friends with Thomas Jefferson.

    Unless you have high connections as well, I would not recommend traveling to this place on anything less than a guaranteed full ride. Ain't no Sacajawea to help the indebted.

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  12. Wow. I posted a comment effectively refuting much of what Nano wrote above about Lewis & Clark, and "poof"...it's gone.

    Imagine that.

    ReplyDelete
  13. March 1, 2011 3:49 PM

    Sounds interesting. I would love to see the refutation. Can you perhaps post it on one of the other scamblogs, since you are being censored here? Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anon 4:08, I just re-posted it. If it is deleted again, I'll know it wasn't a Google error, and that this blog truly is censored (and thus no better than the organizations nando criticizes).

    If it is deleted again, I'll post it on one of the other scamblogs, and will note that it wasn't welcome here.

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  15. LOL! Didn't take long AT ALL for nando to get rid of my comment again.

    Readers, for what it's worth, nando's opinions are just as slanted as the schools he criticizes. Take what he says with a HUGE grain of salt.

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  16. @349/408/431/433:

    It's 99% likely it's not censorship by Nando. Blogger's spam filter is sensitive, and it catches lengthy posts if they have a certain tone to them. I've had perfectly legitimate posts show up in my spam filter in the past more or less because they're long.

    I highly doubt Nando checked his blog repeatedly during the 330 to 430 hour just so he could delete your post. And given what he's allowed to be published here, I doubt that he is censoring; he seems to prefer calling people "cockroaches" (even when they have quasi-valid points) to deleting their words

    If you honestly think Nando is censoring you, feel free to email me (j.dog84@ymail.com) whatever you wanted to post and I'll give it its own post as a guest blogger on RDTTL if it's really worth the public seeing. Or you could try breaking your post down into smaller pieces and trying to put them separately in the comments.

    ReplyDelete
  17. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=146.197.246.30

    How are things in Beaverton, OR, troll?

    Time Visitor Session
    Mar 1 2011 6:37pm 146.197.246.30 2 actions 1m 9s
    Mar 1 2011 5:32pm 146.197.246.30 1 action 10s
    Mar 1 2011 4:13pm 146.197.246.30 20 actions 53m 57s
    Mar 1 2011 3:44pm 146.197.246.30 5 actions 15m 51s
    Mar 1 2011 2:56pm 146.197.246.30 4 actions 34m 22s
    Feb 23 2011 1:55pm 146.197.246.30 2 actions

    I have not deleted ANY of your comments. You can continue to falsely claim that I have, but it does not change the fact that I have not deleted any posts, on this entry. Are you paranoid, or just stupid?!

    Look at the number of comments that attempt to rebut the message of this blog. Have you NOT noticed that I love to destroy my detractors’ arguments, point by point?! Explain that.

    Here is something for you to consider, troll: I was in a four-hour, off-site meeting today. I then briefly checked this blog when I returned to the office. I then left for an appointment. At that point, there were only nine comments posted on this entry. J-Dog’s comment and the other four had not yet been posted. Do you understand that?!?!

    By the way, how did four of your comments make it on this forum, i.e. 3:49, 4:08, 4:31 and 4:33 pm - while others somehow “disappeared“? Why don’t you post a comment telling me how you find Lewis & Clark Law Sewer to be great and wonderful institution? Use that same magic formula that you used to post the four comments mentioned above. Was the message too long? Did you enter the correct code? Do you not know how to post “important” and “ground-breaking” messages?!

    Could this be a lame tactic to try to detract from the message, i.e. "I am posting excellent comments and they keep mysteriously disappearing, because Nando deletes them. I have no proof, but I just know he is behind this"?

    “Wow. I posted a comment effectively refuting much of what Nano wrote above about Lewis & Clark, and "poof"...it's gone.

    Imagine that.”

    I was out of the office, when you posted this comment.

    “Anon 4:08, I just re-posted it. If it is deleted again, I'll know it wasn't a Google error, and that this blog truly is censored (and thus no better than the organizations nando criticizes).”

    Yeah, that is PROOF that some evil entity or person deleted your comment - including when the responsible person is not even in the office, right?!?!

    “Readers, for what it's worth, nando's opinions are just as slanted as the schools he criticizes. Take what he says with a HUGE grain of salt.”

    Take what the cretin in Portland says/writes with a huge grain of salt and some common sense.

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  18. Go to L&C and you might end up like Mark Jesperson.

    "The Eighth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the 45-year-old Grand Marais man cannot escape more than $350,000 of student debt he piled up over more than a decade."

    Relax, he still found work in a non-legal job:

    "Jesperson has a law degree, but he's not putting it to much use these days -- except for representing himself early in his case. He works as a painter, and lives in a camper."

    As noted by the debtor...

    "[e]ven if that profession doesn't work, even if things go wrong, there's no way out."

    But would never happen to someone like you. You are much smarter and will be in the top 5%.

    -SL

    http://www.startribune.com/local/50806777.html?elr=KArksD:aDyaEP:kD:aUnOiP3UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU7DYaGEP7vDEh7P:DiUs

    ReplyDelete
  19. I'll try reposting a portion of this:

    From Willamette Week - "the young and jobless":

    Name: Emily Jackson
    Age: 34
    Job status: Unemployed
    Twitter message to Portland: “As it turns out, they stop sending loan checks when you graduate from law school. Now what am I supposed to do?”
    So, you have a law degree but no job. How did that happen?
    I just graduated from Lewis Clark this May and sat for the bar exam on July 27 and 28. I am unemployed at this point, as are most of my classmates. So many of the jobs that people offered before we graduated were rescinded because of the recession. A lot of the big east schools that graduate fancy law folks are coming out this way and taking the jobs that used to go to people from U of O and Lewis Clark.
    ...
    How much debt are you carrying?
    My law school debts and my undergrad debts [together] are about $120,000. But again, I think that a lot of the graduates are in the same boat, and that helps just to sort of put it in perspective.
    What are you doing for money?
    I am draining the rest of my loans, and relying on family—which is not what I was hoping to do right after law school. My boyfriend [a Lewis Clark student] and I may move in together—he’s renting a fancy condo that he can’t afford anymore either. So whereas we would never take money into consideration a year ago when we talked about it, we’re talking about it now.
    It says on your survey that you still eat out for almost every meal, though.
    Oh, gosh, that was a month ago, wasn’t it? Now I’m on food stamps—$200 a month. Isn’t that a trip?

    ReplyDelete
  20. What is the LRAP fee? I thought the point was to reduce the debt burden, not increase it.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Nando, things are great in Beaverton. Thanks for asking. Although, it IS a bit creepy that you take the time to look-up and then post where people are from. Had my post actually gone through (I guess you can't afford a legit blogging platform), you would have seen my disclosure that I live in the Portland area. Along with the rebuttal to your poorly written "review".

    And speaking of not being able to afford a better blogging solution, I can tell you're not exactly a genius by the way you've not effectively monetized this blog. With your visitor base, you should be pulling in roughly $4K/month from this blog. Easily. And yet, you instead bitch about how broke you are. Clever.

    But then, you DID go to Drake. 'Nuff said.

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  22. Hey 10:39 I logged back on this blog today just to see what your awesome deleted post was going to be about. OMG where is it?

    ReplyDelete
  23. My post didn't show up, but was wondering if you could do a post on Widener Law? With a 50K-55K per year cost, sub-par teachers and dismal job prospects, it deserves a seat next to the rest of them! Big fan of the site, keep it up.

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  24. Hey 10:48, I'd love to be able to tell you. But unfortunately, the kind host can't invest $20/month in a post-2009 blogging platform. And so, if anyone writes more than a paragraph or two...it won't post.

    But it's ok. Even it it did post, it would only evoke a potty-mouthed tirade from the great nando; a person who handles criticism about as well as would be expected from someone with such a low emotional IQ.

    Poor chap. He goes to a third-tier law school, and then bitches that he can't get a job. So he starts a blog with hundreds of thousands of visitors, and he can't seem to figure out how to make a living doing THAT, either.

    I can sorta understand why the guy is so bitter. Failure is never much fun.

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  25. Genius, Beaverton *is* in the Portland area. My goodness, nando pointed that out already. So where is your great post? You don't have one.

    'Take what the cretin in Portland says/writes with a huge grain of salt and some common sense.'

    Have a good time taking on a bunch of debt for a piece of shit law degree. This Portland student is the reason why you don't drop a baby on its head people.

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  26. Chief Crumbhead,

    I am glad you enjoy the site. The fact is I profiled this dung heap back on August 19, 2010. Here is a link to that entry:

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2010/08/wipe-thoroughly-widener-university.html

    Take a look at the apologust cockroaches defending this fourth tier pile of waste. Perhaps, as a former Widener law student, you could provide your perspective on this dump.

    For instance, check out this drivel:

    "Anonymous said...

    I notice a distinct lack of comments in this (and in virtually every other board that criticizes a specific law school or law school in general) along the lines of "I graduated from Widener in the top of my class and I can't find a job". I wonder why that is...

    January 26, 2011 2:43 PM"

    By the way, the peon responsible for this comment is wrong. There are plenty of comments from supposed former students, informing others that Widener is a dung heap.

    http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/231/386/2008-231386178-051267c5-9.pdf

    Widener University’s 2008 IRS Form 990 shows that Dean Linda L. Ammons made $288,419 for 2007. Furthermore, John L. Gedid, “assistant vice dean” of the school "earned" $229,661 for the same tax year.

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  27. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  28. Wow. It's sickening to think that their inflated salaries are being paid for by students who, unbeknownst to them, will be unemployed or underemployed when they graduate. The school has unqualified teachers who could care less about the success of their students. I had a teacher who didn't show up for almost 20 days of class without a given reason. I was managing a little higher than a B average, but after talking to fellow law students like yourself (family & friends, mostly) I quickly realized that 100k more in debt and dismal job prospects wouldn't bring me any closer to fiscal security. I got out when I did only because my family made me seriously consider other options and if I hadn't spoken to them I'd still be taking courses at that shitty school with dreams of marshmallows sugarplums (i.e., gainful employment). A buddy of mine just graduated from Nova, top 25% in his class and is working part-time, making $20/hour. I'm currently making more than him with a bachelors and with 100k less in debt. I have another friend (law review at Widener) who still hasn't found a job. I know most of you aren't math people, but look at the statistics as Nando has pointed out. There's simply an influx of law students into the market every year and there aren't enough positions to employ them...and that isn't even taking into account the sub-par available positions (which would raise the JD to open position ration even higher). The bottom line is this. If you go to a T3 or T2 and don't have connections beforehand, expect a miserable future. I was like many of the kids on here a few years ago, saying "he must be dumb" or "my situation will be different," and I refused to believe the websites and blogs like this. Before any of you sign those loan papers, seriously consider what you're getting yourself into. Get angry all you want, but in a few years you're going to look back on this website and wish you had listened. Thanks again for the blog, I've been telling myself I made the right decision but it's always reassuring to have an outside perspective. Nando, if you don't mind me asking, what field are you currently in?

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  29. Nando,
    Great post on Widener. I wrote an extremely long comment after my deleted comment, and it didn't appear. Anyway you can get that back?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Look, TTTheaven and mentally-deficient lemming in Portland:

    Supportive comments also sometimes do not make it onto the blog. That must be one crazy-ass "conspiracy," right?!

    By the way, I did not delete the post. Try posting shorter comments, perhaps. Crumbhead, I have no way of retrieving deleted or lost posts.

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  31. hey I am a recently dismissed law student from a TT ny school. After getting dismissed I discovered this blog and all the law school scam blogs and think they are really helpful. So here is my problem, I got readmitted. I was dismissed for having a 2.19 and needed a 2.2 to be in good academic standing. I had EXTREME hardship that led to me grades dropping the first semester of my second year. What do you guys say should I go back, or cut my loses.. I am just interested in your opinion has anyone been in this situation.

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  32. You should put STCL on blast next time

    hah

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  33. What's the big fuss? WHo doesn't realize Lewis & Clark Law School is a rancid piece of shit? The guy defending this shithole is probably an employee or student at this place.

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  34. Good comments and discussion.

    To me, the only solution left is to DEFAULT EN MASSE, let the system collapse, and rebuild from there.

    If enough people grow enough courage to put aside the fear of default, and just REFUSE to participate any longer in this rigged system, we will hit a critical mass (doesn't have to be everybody, just *enough* - maybe 35%?), and the financial system collapses.

    Hit the reset button and rebuild from there. I'm willing to get my hands dirty and get bloody over this. Maybe they will start taking us seriously when their lives are no longer *safe* and *soft*.

    Mass disenfranchisement calls for mass revolt, DEBTORS' REVOLT. Our Founders revolted against England over far, far less.

    JPR

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  35. Lewis & Clark is a second rate law school. Although the undergrad coeds are amazing. Anyway, if you live in Oregona and just have to be a lawyer you should go to the U of Oregon. Save yourself some coin.

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  36. @ 2:25,

    I would not return to law school, if I was in your situation. In fact, I advise anyone who is not at an elite law school to drop out after first semester - if they are not in the top 10 percent of their class. Even this is not a bullet-proof. For instance, there are plenty of recent grads from second tier sewers who were on law review and Moot Court who are now working in non-law, toiletlaw, or are now underemployed.

    At Third Tier Drake, I had a classmate who missed grading onto law review by exactly 2 spots. What did he do, for that summer following first year? He worked in a call center - as a temp - making $14 an hour. Yeah, that really paid off for him, didn’t it?!?! Apparently, he is now working at a law-related position in Ohio.

    In your particular situation, I fail to see how you will attract local attorneys, public defenders, or the district attorney’s office. They may be willing to take you on as free labor, i.e. unpaid intern, but DO NOT count on them extending a job offer to you. There is a GLUT of attorneys, across the nation. Unless YOU have some top-flight family, business or political connections, you should not return to your second tier dump.

    To the Portland cockroach,

    Not everything is about money, idiot. Why would I want to cheapen/take away from my message, by providing ad space for Ave Maria Law School and Florida Coa$TTTTal?! (If I monetized the site, you can be certain that law school diploma mills would advertize on this space. I would rather spend the night with your mother, and no protection, than allow these pigs to display their ads here – even if they paid $10K per month.) Are you being deliberately dense? You cannot possibly be this stupid.

    You also have the writing “skills” of a tenth-grader, and that is being kind. Your criticism of my blog is rich. Should someone listen to a guy with no musical talent harping on the conductor of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, or would the person be better off listening to the brilliant notes coming from the instruments?!?!

    By the way, emotional quotient is EQ, not emotional IQ. Coming from a person as dense as you, I take no offense. I have noticed that several people with high IQs tend to have low EQs. Perhaps, this is the curse of living in world full of morons, i.e. people like you.

    Lastly, I have a job; I even have benefits and lots of vacation time. I landed this position two months after graduating from my TTT. So I am not bitching about not finding a job. I am also not broke, and I am not complaining about my financial situation. (I had a full-tuition scholarship to attend law school. Would you care to bet that I have more money in the bank than you?)

    It is obvious that you are a lemming who has his heart SET on going to law school, regardless of the facts. Reality stings you to the core, i.e. “Mean people on the internet are trying to crush my dreams!” Guess what, bitch?! It is better to learn about the job market now, rather than drowning in tons of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. Get upset with Lewis & Clark Law Sewer. THEY are the ones charging $30,456 for one year of second tier tuition.

    Look at the facts that have been laid out clearly on this entry before you cry, bitch and moan about the content. If you cannot handle reality, how the hell will you ever become a gainfully-employed attorney? Will you have a stroke when the judge rules against you? If you become a lawyer, this is inevitable. How will you cope?!

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  37. March 2 @10:41 p.m.: As a UO alum, I would have to disagree on that point. In the last few years even kids at the top of the class @ UO had trouble finding work, and I am not even talking about the bigger Portland firms, which would much rather take first tier grads who in a better economy would be at Biglaw in a REAL city. In one recent class, even the editor of the law review (the real law review, not the environmental or international pieces of crapola they put out) spent time on the unemployment line (don't know if zie ended up finding work or not). Also FWIW my totally unscientific review of recent Multnomah Lawyers reveals that it's not UO alums who dominate the bench and bar leadership in Portland. (It's Lewis and Clark -- at least those of them who manage to get jobs.) I think the better piece of advice is not to go to ANY law school in Oregon, unless your family has been here for enough generations (ie pioneer family with things named after them) that the provincial pieces of trash who run things knew your granddaddy.

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  38. Law is a festeringly overcrowded and horrific field.

    Individuals considering whether to re-enroll MUST be honest with themselves that 1)they are not "defaulting" into law school because they don't know what else to do or are concerned with what others may think of them, AND 2)they are ready, willing and able to hit the streets upon graduation and practice law without any forms of mentorship or practicum. That is the nitty-gritty of law, unlike the more exclusive, real professions, which feature extensive internships and residencies.

    A very tough row to hoe other than for those either hooked-up or unusually multitalented.

    ReplyDelete
  39. He Nando:

    The schools that get the most grads into biglaw at the lowest tuition (and vice versa) are here:

    http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/03/most-and-least-.html

    I disagree with you guys that biglaw is everything. It think a smart small law attorney can make a lot of easy money, and academic credentials don't matter for small law. But I hope you find the info useful.

    Good luck with your great blog!

    ReplyDelete
  40. @553:

    "easy money"

    There is no such thing unless you invent something or gain investment property (including stocks and other securities).

    There are a lot of "smart" small law attorneys working for very little money.

    Speaking of money, whoever said this blog could pull in 4k a month is a crack-smoker. The whole value of the site is around 3k, and it would make like 5 bucks a day in projected ad revenue.

    ReplyDelete
  41. still waiting for the Mr. Law School roast

    ReplyDelete
  42. lol, apparently some other forums have roasted him already
    http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1261919&mc=11&forum_id=2

    and the most brilliant part is that he attends Nova.

    ReplyDelete
  43. J-Dog:

    "There are a lot of "smart" small law attorneys working for very little money."

    Then by definition they are not "smart". I don't mean "smart" in the sense of good at legal research. I mean a guy who gets $3k for a criminal case and spends 5 minutes plea negotiating it. A guy gets a $100k PI case, takes a couple of deps, and then settles it. Even doing a trial would only take 2-3 days anyway.

    I think you meant to say that there are a lot of smart small law attorneys who get much less business than they did before the Great Recession started, but they’re not “working for very little money”. They’re working for like 15 hours a week, making average non-law job money, and spending lots of time at the mall, at the gym, etc.

    Regarding “this site would make 5 bucks a day in projected ad revenue”:

    If I were Nando and had a site somewhat related to law that gets 100 thousand hits, this is what I would do:
    1. Pass the bar.
    2. Put up adds on the side of the blog that say “ Iowa divorce lawyer, Iowa personal injury lawyer, Iowa criminal lawer” that route to Nando’s cell phone.
    3. Answer the phone and close the client. (But under a name different than Nando. No one would hire him if they guessed that the ads were from this blog author).
    4. Refer the clients to experienced attorneys and take a referral fee, but co-counsel the case until he learns the law.
    5. After Nando’s learned the law, simply skip step 4 and keep 100% of the money himself.

    ReplyDelete
  44. 6:20 AM - That's the dumbest idea ever. Advertising 101 - know your audience. A bunch of out-of-work attorneys don't come here for legal advice on small-time issues for which they could do two minutes of online research to figure out.

    Also, you can't take referral/kick-back money in some states, especially through online contact.

    "Iowa lawyers may not link to and participate in an online referral service that provides consumers with a way to find attorneys by specialty and locale and publishes a wealth of consumer legal content and attorney resources.Iowa Opinion 00-07 (December 5, 2005)."

    (2 minute legal research answer).

    Boom, roasted.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "I mean a guy who gets $3k for a criminal case and spends 5 minutes plea negotiating it. A guy gets a $100k PI case, takes a couple of deps, and then settles it. Even doing a trial would only take 2-3 days anyway."

    That's not "smart," that's "lucky." Those types of attorneys are few and far between (and you should expect them to be few and far between unless your understanding of business is out-of-whack). And under no definition does "smart" mean "making lots of money with little work." Otherwise, every high-class hooker would be "smart" and Charlie Sheen would have an academy rather than a harem.

    As for the latter half of your email, I about died laughing. First of all, I think Nando lives in Utah. Second, who in their right mind would find a divorce, PI, or criminal lawyer based on a cheap ad on a cheap blog site about law school being a scam? Nando would be lucky to get 2-3 clients a year with this method. Third, you would probably run up against an ethics problem somewhere (not sure about Utah/Iowa's advertising rules, and am not looking them up).

    Basically, Nando would have to spend a few thousand, quit his job, and study full-time for the bar in order to make this scheme work, and then he'd have to pray like a monk that someone looking for an attorney in a sparsely-populated state just happened to read this off-the-beaten-path blog. No way does that turn out well.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Good research middle class con. Thanks for roasting that guy. 6:20 understands nothing about business or law.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Middle Class Con:
    The Google search engine optimization system looks for words like "lawyers", "law" etc. So this site might, perhaps with a little modification and I haven't tested it, have a good page listing for "criminal lawyer" "pi lawyer". Anyway, a guy who blogs as much as Nando could spend a few minutes on a dedicated legal blog, as well as on TTR, in order to make money.
    I don't think that a blog that bitches about law school being a scam and has a single attorneys advertisement on the side is "an online referral service that provides consumers with a way to find attorneys by specialty and locale and publishes a wealth of consumer legal content and attorney resources." It is just an online add.
    J-Dogg: What exactly do you think real lawyers do? They try to make as much money for as little work, and as little risk, as possible. Every time a sympathetic person (and I am very sympathetic: congratulating Nando on a “great blog” and suggesting more resources for him) tries to suggest a realistic course of action to help you guys, you just say that he is “lucky” and “unrealistic”. How would you know?

    ReplyDelete
  48. Hey Nando,

    You always seem to get people here who just have their own agenda. Well Good job, keep it up. All I have to say is that for the most part, Nando is right. When you have double digit amount of people from T-14 schools unemployed at graduation (12-15%) I think that suggests that if you are at a school ranked below 25, well you're fucked.
    I learned the hard way, I had substantial connections, but in Law, connections will maybe get your foot in the door, but you really do have to have the credentials, you do. There are the "outliers" but those are the few. The best advice i got was from A judge that I volunteered for, and she said this "The past three students that have volunteered for me were on their flagship law review, top 20% of their class, and all of them still are un-employed." These kids, like me, were from a Tier 2 Los Angeles school.
    Kids, seriously, this guy is trying to do you a favor, he might come off as a dick, and maybe nando is, but he is attempting to do some good by having you not make the same mistakes as us. The profession is not dead, it is has just contracted drastically

    ReplyDelete
  49. "What exactly do you think real lawyers do? They try to make as much money for as little work, and as little risk, as possible."

    That's not limited to lawyers, and nothing any of us have said have refuted that basic principle.

    What you've written here is pie-in-the-sky unrealistic. You cannot go into a business with blatantly unrealistic ideas, and expecting clients to come from a blog that gets less than 10k hits a month (I would estimate less than 500/month in the target market) is about as unrealistic as it gets, especially given the questionable ethics involved. And Nando also has a lot more negatives by virtue of being on record of hating the law and calling people cockroaches.

    If you honestly believe this site is a way for Nando to make serious money (and I think you're the only one unrealistic enough to believe that), why don't you make him an offer and buy it off of him?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Can we get another toilet law school? I'm sure most are tired of looking at this shithole. Thanks in advance.

    ReplyDelete
  51. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/science/05legal.html

    ReplyDelete
  52. Almost 200K US visitors Nando!

    Congratulations!

    And maybe I haven't said it, but thank you Colonel, from a deeply indebted and often depressed insomniac blogger, for the laughs.

    I once painted with a guy who persisted that I stop my truck at a beach so that he could go swimming. The real reason was that he hadn't showered in a few days.

    So the Colonel is not exaggerating: Many JD's are probably taking showers at the Y, or in someone's sink.

    And the name "Chief Crumbhead" is classic. I wish I had thought of it. Welcome aboard! And I've lost posts that were too long as well. Break it up into two posts if necessary.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Artificial intelligence software streamlines e-discovery, eliminating lawyer jobs, in NY Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/science/05legal.html

    Between automation and offshoring, maybe you guys should focus on what can't be automated and offshored: being a good lawyer: understanding the law, litigation strategy, questioning and closing to the jury. Forget about getting document review jobs. (Why the hell did you want them?)

    ReplyDelete
  54. Better yet, who the hell wants a job in law at all? That's why I got the hell out and stay out. Why try to force oneself into a notoriously-overcrowded field that isn't even fun? (Why the hell would you want it?)

    ReplyDelete
  55. @March 5, 1:41

    For the Shits and Giggles of course!

    ReplyDelete
  56. http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/11nov/degree.html

    L&C funded 20 eight-week part-time positions for $2,500 in 2010 and 40 such positions in 2011. To borrow from Nando, for $ome rea$son, these positions all covered L&C's Feb. 15 NALP reporting date for employment statistics.

    With 221 graduates looking for work in 2010, these 20 lucrative positions increased L&C's employment rate by 9%.

    http://law.lclark.edu/offices/career_services/uncommon

    There were 198 graduates in 2010 of which 188 were seeking full-time employment. L&C loved themselves some more part-time positions to "earn" a 21.3% boost to their employment rate in 2011.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Useless unless compared to other schools. Both top tier and equal ranking.

    Everything else is a lack of understanding of basic economics and logical fallacy's.Nice troll. Useless write up, but classic in it's format. Oh, and the classic teachers salary gambit. Gosh, the make money their must be something wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Learn some basic punctuation and grammar, bitch. You are ignorant about the economics of attending law school, Dumbass. I have been highlighting the scam for nearly three years now, cockroach.

    Take a look at David Segal's January 9, 2011 piece for the New York Times, which was entitled "Is Law School a Losing Game?" Check out this excerpt, mental midget:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?pagewanted=all

    “Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”

    When is the last time YOU were cited in the New York Times Sunday edition, you piece of trash?!?!

    http://dexknows.whitepages.com/name/Garrett-J-Iii-Moffitt/Tualatin-OR/2rss09u

    "Garrett J Moffitt III
    home
    20148 SW 70th Ave
    Tualatin, OR 97062-9214
    (503) 692-4216
    Age: 45-49
    Associated: Debra S Moffitt"

    ReplyDelete
  59. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=50.53.154.84

    How is life in Tualatin, Oregon, waterhead?!?! From my analytics, Ass-Clown:

    Visitor detail
    Visits: 1

    Unique ID: 410821998
    IP address: 50.53.154.84
    Locale: Tualatin, OR, USA/English
    Platform: Google Chrome 20.0/Windows 7/1920x1080

    Jul 7 2012 9:25pm 50.53.154.84 3 actions 9m 44s facebook.com/l.php

    Visitor path, this visit

    Jul 7 2012
    9:25:13 pm/2011/03/pioneers-in-solid-waste-second-tier.html
    THIRD TIER REALITY: Pioneers in Solid Waste: Second Tier Lewis & Clark Law School facebook.com

    Jul 7 2012
    9:32:05 pm/
    THIRD TIER REALITY

    Jul 7 2012
    9:34:57 pm/2011/03/pioneers-in-solid-waste-second-tier.html
    THIRD TIER REALITY: Pioneers in Solid Waste: Second Tier Lewis & Clark Law School

    Get a life, dung beetle. Your feelings are hurt because someone pointed out the fact that ABA-accredited law schools are producing FAR TOO MANY graduates for the available number of attorney positions?! You clearly need some professional help.

    If you are considering law school, you are much better off remaining in your job as an applications analyst for the City of Portland. Take care, Stupid Pig.

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/garrett-moffitt/19/466/794

    "Garrett Moffitt's Experience

    AA IV
    City of Portland
    Government Agency; 5001-10,000 employees; Government Administration industry
    June 2005 – Present (7 years 2 months)

    Applications Analyst IV
    City of Portland Bureau of Technology Services
    2005 – Present (7 years)"

    ReplyDelete

 
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