Thursday, March 10, 2011

Profiles in Opportunism, Dishonesty and Cognitive Dissonance: Kimber Russell Edition

Yes, we hit the trifecta with today’s subject. By the way, did you finally pull your snout, lips and mouth out of Bob Morse’s ass, Kimber? Good. (When you act like a pig, you will be treated as such - regardless of your gender, i.e. your genitalia will not save you from a well-deserved response.)


This two-headed bitch consistently attacks Elie Mystal, and questions his manhood - but then congratulates LST failures for being named ATL’s “Lawyer of the Year.” Have some integrity, Kimber. Then again, the ingrate frequently slammed JDU posters - but now pretends to be their friend, on that forum.

She entered the movement on May 7, 2010 and by August 30, 2010, Kimber was all too willing to come out. (As if owing Sallie Mae $2,000 a month and being a bar prep salesperson is something to proudly announce to the world.) As you can see, Kimber jumped at the chance to out herself as a scam-blogger, but the moment she sees a potentially bigger trough, she disavows the “so-called scam-blog” movement.


This link provides a decent summation and chronology of events. Listen, moron: YOU chose to make this public. You first wrote a stupid entry, and no one responded. You then saw fit to send an email telling everyone how you no longer want to be associated with the term “scam-blog” - and how we need to work with Bob Morse. You could have shown a modicum of integrity, acted like an adult, and emailed or called me to let me know that you were devastated by my comments on shill Bob Morse. Instead, you decided to act like a demented ape. You then posted these internal emails to JDU, conveniently leaving out the part where you asked to stay in the group. After I calmly stated the facts, you then went on a barely-coherent rant on your little podcast.

You poor, desperate, dishonest soul. I feel sorry that your husband is stuck with your immature, petty 37 year old ass. How often does he attend his Shriveled Ballsacks Anonymous meetings?! By the way, next time you are photographed by a major news publication such as the NYT, could you please not style your hair and dress after English actor Rupert Grint?!

I see that you have now listed BL1Y, as your ally. This is the same person you ridiculed for living in his parents’ Alabama basement, with his NYU law degree. Remember after our interview, you, Mark and I discussed how this guy feels that he is better than us because of his elite credential? You were relentless in attacking BL1Y’s character. Now, he is your friend. (Then again, you openly refer to yourself as “fire-crotch”.)

Cognitive Dissonance:

Look at how this sick pig attacked a 14 year old, back on January 12, 2011. The child was “punished” because she wants to be a lawyer. My guess is the girl has at least 50 IQ points on Kimber. After all, you foolishly believe that working with the ABA and US News will lead to better accountability. Just as American slaves amicably worked with the slave owners to successfully end the institution of slavery, right?!?!

Kimber, YOU were outsmarted by Zenovia Evans. That is all you need to know about Kimber’s “intelligence.”

“Zenovia should have taken that damned ice cream spoon out of her mouth for a few seconds and sought out a mentor of her own to encourage her to make strong personal choices like, oh, I don't know, not duping a bunch of people into believing she was on a hunger strike when her true goal all along was probably just to sell more of her pro-law school books.”

Evans is a tool. However, at least she is not selling bar prep materials to unemployed JDs, many of whom have no shot of being hired as attorneys - even after successfully passing the exam.

“I'm done ranting for now...but I've started a thread over at JDU, so feel free to hop on the "Bash Zenovia" bandwagon over there, or weigh in with your comments below!”

What a picture of mental health, huh?! (I am sorry that you were outsmarted by a Cooley grad - but you were. Congratulations. That is quite an accomplishment.)

Kimber, if you want to kiss Morse’s ass, fine. That is your choice. I would expect nothing less from a crass opportunist and shameless sellout. Make sure you carry some breath mints with you.

She accused ATL’s Elie Mystal of plagiarism without proof. Apparently, someone is showing signs of paranoia and a conspiracy nut mindset.

“There is not a vast conspiracy” - Yeah, we get that, mental midget. No one here said that “law professors” and administrators meet in a smoke-filled bunker, and decide how to screw students. But they KNOW the score, manipulate data, and continue to encourage more to enter this shrinking job sector.

“Get rid of ABA accreditation” - This will not happen, short of a watershed moment. It certainly will not occur by working with the ABA. (Are you stupid enough to believe that the ABA is going to work towards its own destruction?!?!)

“Nando, you are the Glenn Beck of the movement” – Nice talking point, ass-hat. By the way, idiot, my facts are solid. You may not like my tone, or the manner in which I present my case, but my facts are superb. I have talked to actual "law professors" by phone and email. They have told me that my facts are stellar. I have even been contacted for info. Like Glenn Beck, YOU don’t care about the truth.

"Ooooh. I guess I've been punished. Nando took me off his blogroll." - I removed your watered-down site after you took TTR off your blogroll and removed my law school profiles link on DBL. That is your prerogative to do so. However, I am not going to provide traffic for an opportunistic sellout. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your “argument,” Kimber.

Conclusion: Before you enter the next stage of your nervous breakdown, Kimber, remember that you brought this thrashing upon yourself. If you nip at my heels like a flea bag, I will be more than happy to kick you in the ribs. Keep in mind that this tool defends the duplicitous Bob Morse, but attacks a 14 year old girl. Now that I have thoroughly flushed this dishonest turd down the toilet, it is time to wash my hands and move on.


  1. yes, i thought that 14 year old post was a red flag.

  2. I hereby present the Eleventh Commandment.

    Thou. Shall. Not. Piss. Off. Nando.

  3. Someone made fun of me for having a top 10 law degree and ending up living with my parents? Oh snap!

    Yeah, don't care. I make jokes about it too, and Namby and I have gone after her on our podcast. No one fucking cares.

    Also, I don't think my elite credentials make me better than anyone. My elite eliteness on the other hand...

  4. I tried to find your e-mail to send this to you, but I didn't see it (haven't finished my coffee yet, so I didn't look too hard).

    The Dean of Academic Affairs at Quinnipiac Law was found guilty of fraud. Might make for good fodder if you haven't reviewed them yet.

  5. The differences of opinion between you and Kimber are so slight that all this hate is laughable.

    You both agree that law schools are misreporting employment data to NALP, the ABA, and US News. You only differ over whether US News (a for-profit news magazine) should be responsible for demanding more accurate statistics than NALP or the ABA (two groups which who claim to be on the side of the legal industry and the public).

    You both decry abovethelaw and Elie Mystal for being big law cheerleaders. She simply thought that it was worth congratulating them for getting behind the law school transparency move. You would prefer not to acknowledge their existence. Fine.

    You guys are hurting this movement by bickering over these minute differences. You guys agree on the overall message this movement is trying to communicate, and that's what's important.

  6. Yeah, I don't think these two are gonna make up any time soon. Following these guys was fun while it lasted. Too bad people's egos got in the way.

  7. I don't like personal attacks.

    However, publicly trashing your friends and allies in a quest for even more publicity, as Kimber did, is wrong.

    The "Robert Morse Takes on the ABA" post that she made was surreal. Robert Morse?

    But it gets weirder. In the recent interview, to which Nando linked, she says, "A more moderate summation of the situation, which I myself hold, is that the U.S. News & World Report annual rankings have created perverse incentives for law schools to disseminate misleading, if not outright fraudulent, information to prospective law students about the true value proposition of a Juris Doctor degree."

    So it's USNWR that creates the perverse incentives? But somehow Robert Morse is a great knight taking on the ABA?

    A part of me is telling me that she did it all for the publicity. Now she's going around doing interviews as the face of the "scamblog movement." It's reminiscent of Zenovia Evans, or, rather, her criticism of Zenovia Evans (which impelled Kimber to go public). In that case, it's also reminiscent, morally, of Ted Haggard, in that it reveals a stunning hypocrisy.

    Knut from

  8. Wow. My feeling is if Painter and Nando mated, you might wind up with a semi-normal human being. Seriously Nando, maybe you should calm down and put all that energy into something more constructive, like maybe finding a better job. You're going to let this woman upset you to that degree? It's ridiculous.

  9. Good work Nando. Fuck Locke.

  10. @8:32: Actually Nando does have a job.

    Look Nando, I am a huge fan of your blog despite being a non-attorney. But the vulgarity and tone of your rant discredits you and your message.

    I recommend that you delete this post and move on. Most people who have been following scam blogs are turned off in what Kimber had said recently, and she has lost a lot of credibility. There is no need to go down this road; you are way better than this.

    Have a good one dude.

  11. Where is this coming from?

    I didn't like the "no I'm just a BLAWG now post" at all, but the attacks on her are really making me think she had a point. Particularly the JD Underground personal and nasty attacks on her prior to her "no more scam blog" post.

    The response to her has been weirdly harsh, and it's just not making it look like she's the crazy one.

  12. @b1yl

    I'v actually been there. I had to go to qunnipenisack with my husband for some alum event. Yes, its in scenic north New Haven, Ct - but that's not all! I suggest you take a ride there and experience the grinding poverty that only central CT can provide! It really is hard to believe what a shithole New Haven is with both Yale and Uconn being so close.

    Anyways, I'm not surprised that the Dean was a dirty fucker because he had a limp handshake when I met him. Furthermore, I don't know why the hell they needed a law school there in the first place. THERE IS NO ONE THERE!!! Its empty! Between New Haven and Hartford there is nothing but gas stations and empty farm land. Why the hell would you ever need another law school there with Uconn and Yale right there? Plus the tuition is pricy. My husband paid something along the lines of 40k a year to attend that barnyard. He ended up leaving CT for Jersey because the market for lawyers in CT is so bad. Unless your working bigcorp/inhouse in either Stamford or Hartford good fucking luck. Actually I take that back, specialize in DUIs and open a practice in New Haven and you will be golden lol.

    On a side note: @ nando. You do great work here. You got my niece to re-think going to the tier 4 shithole she got into when I told her to read your review of the school. Now she is getting her nursing degree and working as a paid intern at a clinic.

    As much as I respect your site and all the great info you dig up, attacking Kimber really doesn't do the "message" justice. If this turns into a ego battle about territory and who is the "face" of the "movement," then its a lost cause. In fact this whole drama diminishes the profession and the players by making us look like squabbling idiots. Lawyers are called opportunistic soulless assholes by for a reason. Way to fuck everyone over Kimber.

  13. Shrivelled Ballsacks anyone? Anyone? Where's the Colonel when you need him?

  14. Chronology of recent events:

    1. Kimber’s blog entry announcing that she is no longer a “scamblogger”
    2. Kimber’s email to the group, (foolishly) informing everyone that we need to work with the ABA
    3. In light of her tone, I wrote back and told her that she is free to leave
    4. She responded, and “respectfully resigned”
    5. She then went over to JDU to post these internal emails – and to paint the situation differently (this is unprofessional and deceptive)
    6. I politely and honestly replied on that JDU thread
    7. Other readers noted that Kimber was “opportunistic” and a “sellout”
    8. She then published a bunch of lies – directed at me - on her last podcast
    9. This is my response

    Was I supposed to just sit back and let Psycho set the agenda?! For what it’s worth, I didn’t want to put Kimber’s face and ass in the dirt – but she left me little alternative. Anyone who follows this blog knows that I am going to respond to falsehoods, in brutal fashion. I am an intense person, and I am not about to quietly accept a bunch of nonsense.

    For instance, in seventh grade, I beat the snot out of a kid who was a whole head taller than me – and quite a bit heavier. He tried to push my sister off her bike. So we met in the street. I proceeded to punch him about 9 or 10 times in the face. He landed one glancing shot off my torso. His nose and mouth were covered in blood, and then he put his hands down and said “I quit.” (My wife hates when I tell this story.) Anyway, I only have one regret about that day. I should have beaten him a little more. How I *wish* that he had continued to fight. I did beat up one of his close friends, later that year – which was fun. To his credit however, this kid never tried anything else.

    In the end, if Kimber had concerns, she should have emailed or called me privately. Instead, she acted like a hyena and made this public. Was there a need to announce to the world that we have different takes on the law school industry?!?! Have you seen me post entries about that marvel of precipitation known as snow?! Have I pointed out that Bob Morse is working towards more transparency and accountability?!

    The person is a glory hog, in every sense of the term. She must have the spotlight. Well, it is more important that we get the word out. Who cares about credit? Who gives a damn if a reporter or fellow blogger does not always cite a source? I am not a fan of ATL. I sometimes read articles, on that forum. However, Elie Mystal has written often about the law school industry - on a forum designed for elite JDs. The main point is that we are trying to prevent prospective law students from taking out more in needless, non-dischargeable debt.

    Lastly, going after a fourteen year old girl – because she wants to be a lawyer, when she grows up – is indefensible! That should give one pause. I track down “law professors” and industry shills. These people have made their choice. In contrast, what the hell did this precocious teenager do to deserve that attack?

  15. "On a side note: @ nando. You do great work here. You got my niece to re-think going to the tier 4 shithole she got into when I told her to read your review of the school. Now she is getting her nursing degree and working as a paid intern at a clinic.


    I LOVE that, seriously. To see the scamblogs prevent another kid from attending one of these fraudulent TTT's, and to see them divert into a REAL line of work where there is an arguable demand for their dedication and young enthusiasm. It is the same reason I take great pride that, thus far, NONE of my nieces and nephews have gone towards law, staying instead in the fields of nursing, medicine, the allied health fields. Law is a festering, overcrowded armpit of a "profesion".

    Warms my heart.

  16. Uh, "profession."

  17. It's amazing how many people will defend Kimber. She picked the fight, she's been lying, and now she's getting her ass handed to her. The White Knights are out in full force anyway getting at Nando for being "mean."

    Don't rattle the hornet's nest. That's common sense. The people attacking Nando are symptomatic of our diseased society: they completely ignore the initial aggressor and target the person defending themselves. If we punished the initial aggressor and show them they aren't tolerated we cut off the entire problem.

    Kimber is an idiot and a sellout. Every blogger should remove her blog from their links.

  18. If we could go back to another day. It used to be the case that if someone got out of line, somebody would put them in line. I see this no differently than the man or woman above. Kimber was the aggressor and now she is getting drilled. Well deserved and well earned. You wanna play rough? Just understand you may get your comeuppance.

  19. You sound like a complete nutjob. No one cares about this ultra-incestuous infighting except the handful of people directly involved.

  20. Who cares if she went after a 14 year old? Kids aren't immune from criticism. Sometimes they need a reality check by being told that their dreams and aspirations are ludicrous. Too many kids today think they're special.

  21. There's quite a bit in this post I don't agree with (the personal attacks go way overboard; there's no reason to go to ad hominem here), but to put this in simple terms: Kimber basically got on her knees and begged for this by going after Nando more or less out of the blue.

    When Nando wrote to her disagreeing with her recent post, her response was basically "oh, i see it's your way or the highway, Nando," which was a complete mischaracterization of what Nando had said and - to me, a neutral observer who likes both Nando and Kimber - bizarre, as if she wanted an excuse to leave and lambaste Nando.

    It's all quite weird. Since I think the differences of opinion are slight, I hope it passes and both get back to doing what they're good at, but I can't say Nando wasn't justified in saying SOMETHING since Kimber went out of her way to criticize him publicly - especially since she used to feed off Nando's reviews and link to them on the DBL site.

    Again, the attacks on her appearance and mental health are below-the-belt, in my opinion, but Kimber basically stuck her fist in a hornet's nest. I have no sympathy that she got stung.

  22. "Who cares if she went after a 14 year old?"

    Is this a flame?

  23. She used this platform to get published, period. She's always been a hypocrite - selling for Kaplan while saying it was all a scam? I guess shilling me softly was what she does by day...

  24. I'm very sad by Kimber's departure.

    I had shared some very personal information with the group, and I hope Kimber knows enough to keep it confidential, since I have some very severe critics (well-nigh enemies)that show up on my blog.

    Nando, I sink or swim with you.

    When your profile came out about Touro a while back, it woke up something in me that had been buried for almost 20 years. I felt that perhaps I could try to write again.

    My disastrous academic performance at Touro blew my confidence in myself to bits. Carrying around all of the soul destroying devastation of the debt made me feel worse, and not being able to land non-legal employment with the JD on my resume made me feel like a true Pariah.

    Nando's Post last year(as well as a Post by JJD about Touro) made me realize, for the first time, that there is a bigger picture.

    I hope everyone that comes to Nando's blog also reads and supports his blogroll, especially Cryn Johannsen at, as well as the work of Allan Collinge at

    I will take the blame for 99% of my situation, and am willing to be publicly destroyed by my critics, if necessary, but again, Nando showed me that there is a larger context, and that others are experiencing similar problems.

    But I know in my heart that if and when I am done away with, others will crop up, either un, or underemployed with six figure debt non-dischargeable debt after me, and still others.

    Once more, I owe Nando a deep appreciation and gratitude. He has been incredibly courageous.

    And as far as his language goes, it might not go over well in polite society, but believe me, I have heard other painters use language far worse while working in the master, or even children's bedrooms of 20 plus million dollar homes. (Without the homeowner or kids within earshot of course)

    I still hold out hope for a reconciliation, but my loyalty is with Nando, and he sure has been very tolerant about all of my stumblings and antics.

  25. Jeez. Get a room, you two.

  26. Can we please get on to more important issues. I'm just trying to figure out if I'd "do" Kimber. fuck it, sure why not...

  27. "I still hold out hope for a reconciliation, but my loyalty is with Nando, and he sure has been very tolerant about all of my stumblings and antics."

    I'm getting ready to barf. Painter you need to get a life.

  28. Here are a few more gems, from her latest podcast:

    "We need to work with LST, US News and Bob Morse. Nando's takedown was unfair.” – Yes, mean Nando went after Robert Morse. It was so unfair. But, somehow it is okay to go after 14 year olds?! To directly address this concern, I stand by my comments with regard to US News and Morse. They help justify the stratification of the industry. Apparently, Kimber the “intellectual giant” feels that Morse is on the side of students. (Yeah, sure he is – and Jessica Alba is currently on the left side of my bed, running her knuckles down my back.)

    Furthermore, LST did not accomplish anything. Also, when did I “wish these guys ill”?! I wanted them to succeed, you dolt. I simply recognize that they failed in their objective. From the outset, I knew they were doomed to failure. By the way, others have also noted that LST failed.

    "Changing the system from within" - This rarely occurs. In those instances when it does, it typically does not lead to meaningful change. If change takes place, it is due to the leaders of the organization/institution realizing that they have no other choice, i.e. "We can’t keep this group down forever. Let’s give them a bone."

    “Constantly bitching. Nothing gets done that way. And 'so-called scambloggers' who keep saying all schools should be shut down hurt their credibility.” - Who the hell said ALL schools should be closed down?! Taking a page from Glenn Beck?! Or are you simply having difficulty with reading comprehension? Oh well. Opportunistic, mental lightweights have ZERO credibility.

    Kimber is an attention whore. She contacted the NYT on the law school piece. “Skadden Farts” received a call from the reporter, but he declined to be interviewed again. He did not want to be known as the guy who is always interviewed about law school. On the other hand, if a little Baptist college student-run paper were to run a four-paragraph article on “legal education,” Kimber would likely contact the paper for an interview. This woman is primarily concerned with self-promotion, not helping the student debtor.

  29. Nando said, "Now that I have thoroughly flushed this dishonest turd down the toilet, it is time to wash my hands and move on."

    Hey Nando, are you really ready to move on?

  30. My "allegiance" is with Kimber, but only because she probably has a nicer rear end than you do Nando!

  31. And one little New York Times article is not really a big deal at all.

    We have a long, long way to go beyond that 15 minutes of fame.

    "The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, and everyday, the paper boy brings more."

  32. Why do you always speak in parables Painter? I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Like I said, consider becoming a priest - free room and 3-squares per day.

  33. If Nando didn't go after Kimber I'd be disappointed. This is probably one of his best posts of all time. Factions become evident in any movement that starts to gain steam. So, what seems like it's hurting the movement is actually indicative of its growth. This will only draw more traffic to his blog.

    The whole point of this blog is to piss people off - don't you ever change Nando.

  34. Kimber is a phony, back-biting bitch. She talks out both sides of her mouth. She wants to work with the good people at ABA but she thinks she can be a reformer. How will that work itself out. What a joke. No one (with sense) will take this woman seriously.

  35. Why don't you quit worrying about Kimber and start worrying about your own (err ... pathetic) situation. I don't know Kimber, never even knew who she was until this post, but the extent to which some of you are getting so worked up about this woman suggests that you need to find another outlet. So what if she's a phony, back-biting bitch. As an attorney, I work with phony MFers every day of the week. Same difference. Get a life.

  36. This woman must be dumber than a rock. She took a swipe at the angriest sonofabitch on the internet. Reeeeeal bright.

    What is the thought process behind this move? Hey. See that angry pitbull over there. Poke him with your shoe.

    While I don't alwasy agree with nando, he has good research and facts to back himself up with.

  37. I recently wrote on my blog about an article that just came out by US News. It seems as if they want better employment data from the law schools themselves. My guess is that many people have complained to US News about publishing false employment prospects for graduates?

    I think Nando has a fantastic blog. If it wasn't for Nando, Subprime, JDPainter, Jobless Juris Doctor and all the other bloggers, then nothing would have happend.

    I honestly think the NY Times article, the request by US News for better employment data and the push for greater transparency is a result of all of these great blogs.

    Some people love Nando's style and others hate it, but you should all understand the most important thing...


    Law school is not worth attending for the vast majority of students.

  38. Nando, I have been a supporter of your blog for over a year. As an attorney with 20 years of experience, it is refreshing to see someone recognize the law school con and not be afraid to blog about it so as to dissuade other poor souls from pursuing this fools' errand i.e., obtaining a worthless JD. I have also read Kimber's blog since she went under the handle of "Locke." I remember Kimber going after a kid named Jesse Clark and she was amused by this kid and his constant denigration of women. Now Kimber is offended by the use of female body parts? I agree she is an opportunist. She got her 15 minutes of fame from the NYT article. Plain and simple, she is a turncoat to the cause, a sell out who lost credibility. I won't be listening to that faghag's podcasts with that homo douche co-host anymore. Keep the cause going Nando.

  39. I never liked her or her blog...simply off-putting and confusing....f*ck a podcast?! All scambloggers should "delink" her blog from their sites post haste....she's lost any credibility (if she had any to begin with). I hate attention whores and liars and she seems to be like the Pharaohs and erase this b*tch from the sites....

  40. TMF said...

    Look Nando, I am a huge fan of your blog despite being a non-attorney. But the vulgarity and tone of your rant discredits you and your message.

    I recommend that you delete this post and move on. Most people who have been following scam blogs are turned off in what Kimber had said recently, and she has lost a lot of credibility. There is no need to go down this road; you are way better than this.

    Have a good one dude.

    Agree 100%. As soon as Kimber "came out" I concluded that she was basically another Zenovia Evans, trying to exploit scamblogging to establish some kind of role for herself as a "spokesperson" for the "law school transparency movement," i.e., just another squirrel trying to get a nut (BL1Y will be next). But she's a lawyer; you're surprised?

    She's irrelevant to what you're trying to do here, and you really just feed ammunition to people who want to discredit you by engaging her. Kimber's the one with everything to gain by drawing hits to her dying blog by initiating a pathetic cyber war that establishes her as yet another "victim of bullying," and you as yet another insane scamblogger. What are you gaining, Nando? Delete, rinse, move on.

  41. I discovered Kimber's blog from your blog. Besides talking about lawyer oversupply she also has sections where she answers letters from prospective law students and has experienced lawyers give new grads frank advice.

    In the last few months, I've started to like her blog a little bit more than yours. It has diversified and doesn't really compete head on with TTR which mostly just profiles law schools.

    You both have good, and different blogs, and I hope that you become friends again.

  42. Good article. Opportunists should be called out. The thing is nothing will get done if you within the framework of the ABA. It's designed to keep things the way they are.


    Knut makes a great point, in this piece. These blogs often serve a therapeutic purpose. I have received bitter comments and emails, from JDs who internalized their failure to find employment. The fact is the game is rigged. If you have GREAT family, business and political connections, you do not need to worry about finding a job. If you come from wealth, you likely do not need to concern yourself with student debt.

    I have received letters from hostile, angry, seething, depressed, emotionally spent and mentally exhausted people. I notice that many were initially upset and disappointed with themselves. However, these blogs have shown that this is not a “personal problem.” (Of course, some industry apologist cockroaches will be happy to refer to these unemployed JDs as losers, anyway. Keep selling your ass to the industry, pig.)

    Most of the other scam-bloggers have received similar responses from readers. So have student debtor advocates such as Cryn Johannsen at All Education Matters, Inc. and Alan Collinge of Student Loan Justice. Many of us have received emails from people stating that they were once suicidal, and now they realize that they are not alone.

    The schools KNOW the score. Yet they lure in more desperate college grads with lies and distortions. In the end, the schools receive those federally-backed dollars up front and in full. Hence, they do not need to care about their students’ outcomes. The graduate is the one who bears the entire risk, in the current arrangement.

    Law is a highly stratified industry. It has been this way, for a long time. The ABA plays a direct role in this arrangement – as the ABA looks out for Biglaw.

    Take a look at William Henderson’s analysis of the bi-modal salary distribution, for recent JDs. If you do not land a job making $160K, you will pretty much be competing for jobs that pay $35K-$55K. The fact is there are too damn many law schools pumping out far too many grads - for the available number of attorney positions.

    As you can see, the JD Class of 2009 had 44,000 graduates – competing for 28,901 jobs requiring a law degree. (Hint: not all of these jobs are attorney positions.)

    In the last 5 years listed, i.e. 2004-2005 to 2008-2009, a total of 217,665 JDs were awarded. Over the course of the last ten years, 411,238 law degrees were handed out. In the last 20 years, 804,052 people received their Juris Doctor degree.

    From 1980-1981 to 2008-2009 – a span of 29 years - a cumulative total of 1,127,235 law degrees were awarded by ABA-accredited law schools. Yes, ONE MILLION, ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-SEVEN THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIVE law degrees have been issued in the last 29 years, in the United States. Can anyone say that there is not a glut of attorneys out there?!?!

  44. Maybe she figures if she plays nice with the ABA and USNWR she can land a job and pay off all the student loans. That is the name of the game when one is up to their ass in debt, with no or little income.

  45. @12:59, that was my thought. No more bar prep for her. She can help the ABA or USNWR "reform" the law school system.

  46. Not sure if that's the case or not. But if it is the ABA can bill her as a law school reformer. That way they can tell everyone they're looking for solutions. In turn she can have something nice to put on her resume. It;s a rat race.

  47. I agree that it makes no sense to try to work with the assholes. I don't really care if people think I carry a pitchfork, at least i've armed myself. The more I think about it, the more I believe that we're headed for some serious unrest. I can't relate to people like Kimber that think that we can actually salvage a system that is fundamentally flawed. So long as there's a profit incentive there will be greedy aholes that will do everything in their power to take as much pie as possible.

  48. Can I be in the group? I'm willing to undergo a security test and I'll never sell out.

  49. Nando, if I had any idea how to e-mail you, I'd send you some stories about her from law school. This is some of the most fabulous validation I've ever read in my life.

  50. Shit. Do people read these entries? His email is listed on the Bob Morse entry. Scroll down. nando9936 at yahoo.

  51. Some people don't even ask for money in exchange for selling-out. A big shot returns their calls, flatters them, says their concerns are legitimate and their ideas welcome...and suddenly they go from being radicals to being tinker-around-the-edges reformers. I enjoyed SMS, but if its proprietor can't call a scam a scam then screw her.

  52. "suddenly they go from being radicals to being tinker-around-the-edges reformers"

    So what is the end-game for the scambloggers? That 100 law schools close their doors, everyone's law school debt is forgiven, and only 10000 people get to go to law school each year? How about world peace too?

  53. "So what is the end-game for the scambloggers? That 100 law schools close their doors, everyone's law school debt is forgiven, and only 10000 people get to go to law school each year? How about world peace too?"

    It's so that every single law student knows the risks before they even apply. Namely, that law isn't prestigious (outside Harvard/Yale) and that unless you're a lottery winner, you're going to have a hard time getting significant legal employment.

    By the way, this doesn't even begin to describe how much law school, to put it simply, just sucks. It's recipe for hair loss, eczema, and lowered libido.

  54. "So what is the end-game for the scambloggers? That 100 law schools close their doors, everyone's law school debt is forgiven, and only 10000 people get to go to law school each year?"


    How about world peace too?

    That would be awesome.

    I agree, we should aim very high, that way we'll have a chance at creating a great society, instead of just settling for a "mediocre" one.

    The fact that we'll never stop all murder doesn't mean we shouldn't bother to make it illegal does it? So too the fact that we probably won't get the ideal doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

  55. I am checking out nando's blog, man. You know what nando does on this blog, man? Bad things, man. I mean bad things! You know what nando would do if he saw me messing with him, man? Bad things, man.

  56. If Rodney King was here, he'd ask the scamblogging community:

    "Why can't we all just get along?"

  57. "It's so that every single law student knows the risks before they even apply. Namely, that law isn't prestigious (outside Harvard/Yale) and that unless you're a lottery winner, you're going to have a hard time getting significant legal employment."

    But people know this already! It's not a secret! It's information that people CHOOSE to ignore.

  58. Nando needs to mature. At least Kim has more balls than you to come out and use her real name. You're not even working in the legal industy.

    If this guy is vying to become the leader of the "scam-blog movement," then good luck. Adults debate each civilly, not by using scat references, name-calling, and making fun of each other's haircuts.

    Oh, and FYI Nando, I'm neither an industry shill nor a vile piece of trash. Address me as an adult when you respond to this comment.

  59. Kimber is such a sellout. I for one am glad someone called her out for attacking a young teenage girl. Who wants to associate with someone like that?

  60. "Nando needs to mature. At least Kim has more balls than you to come out and use her real name. You're not even working in the legal industy."

    Nando is his real name (well, a diminutive), and he he has used his full first and last name in actual interviews with actual legal publications. Merely because he doesn't plaster it all over this page doesn't mean he's not "out."

    And who cares if he's working in the legal industry? He's found a job elsewhere where he can make money to pay his loans. Don't they tell you in law school that not all JDs have to be lawyers? Does the fact that he's not in the industry somehow invalidate what he says in these blog entries? Dude still went to law school, so it's not like this is coming from a homeless conspiracy nut.

  61. 6:12 here- What I meant was that because Nando's not working in the legal industry he shouldn't be afraid to use his full name on this blog.

  62. Why would you expose your real name online for scam blogging? The very nature of exposing a scam is anonymous. We even have whistle blower statutes on the books because people understand the need for anonymity for things like this.

    The fact that Kimber exposed her name and put a picture up pretty much shows she's looking to make a buck off the whole thing. For Nando, he won't actually gain anything for it, and isn't even looking to gain anything for it.

    And also, does anyone else find it ironic the person complaining about this doesn't even have an online handle but just goes by anonymous? At least Nando picked a name to use. How do you get on somebody for not exposing them self when you yourself are just anonymous?

  63. "It's so that every single law student knows the risks before they even apply. Namely, that law isn't prestigious (outside Harvard/Yale) and that unless you're a lottery winner, you're going to have a hard time getting significant legal employment."

    But people know this already! It's not a secret! It's information that people CHOOSE to ignore.

    March 13, 2011 7:15 AM

    That's all very true, due to the fact the barriers to entry for law school are unbelievably low compared to real professions like medicine and dentistry, where you need the right undergrad coursework and grades PLUS a hell of an MCAT to even try getting in, then successfully complete internship and residency training. Whole 'nother ball game, as they say. Whereas, a TTT just takes you money and pumps out JD's at an astonishing rate. Non-elite law school are often merely cash cows for the universities they are attached to, in effect, financially propping up REAL programs like medicine, engineering, etc. which take, by stark contrast, considerable physical resources to run. Unlike law school, which can be set up in a converted garage.

  64. Locke can suck my 8 inch penis.

  65. Hail Bob Morse! He did another fine job at ranking the law schools, and continues to be the premier educator of where law schools in this country stand. All of you should be ashamed of insulting this great and heroic man! God bless Bob Morse, and may all of you Morse haters rot in hell!

  66. Nando,

    Can you please provide an email address where I can send you info about a possible blog entry/story. I think you'll find it pretty funny and scandalous.

  67. 9:27 pm,

    Robert Morse is a tool and a shill. He publishes his rankings, and then has the nerve to tell detractors that his scheme plays no role in where kids choose to attend school.

    @ 6:07,

    My email address is

  68. Nando, Bob Morse basically sent a big "FUCK YOU" your way by eliminating the third tier in the latest rankings; thus, your website is now an obsolete misnomer. Nando, now that Drake is in the 2nd tier, will you take the bar exam as you may now have a better chance of getting a legal job?

  69. To the idiot who posted at 7:07 am,

    We can see that Drake is now ranked 110th. This means that the school is still regarded as Third Tier Drake. By your "logic," Drake is now in the humungous first tier.

    Do you suffer from severe reading comprehension deficiency? On page 7, those schools not receiving a numerical rank are listed under "RANK NOT PUBLISHED." In your little mind, does that translate to "second tier"?!?!

    Better yet, towards the bottom of page 8 there are some schools designated under “Unranked.” Do these 8 schools somehow comprise the third tier now?!?!

    Do you remember when US News listed the first 100 schools numerically - and idiots would claim that there was only first tier, third tier and fourth tier?! It was OBVIOUS that those schools ranked 51-100 were second tier, was it not?

    Somehow, you feel that the top 75% of schools can be assigned to tier one, while the bottom quadrant are designated as tier two. Are you really this stupid?!?!

    Let’s try some basic logic, and see if it can penetrate your tiny brain: As recently as one day ago, US News rated schools in four tiers, i.e. 1-50, 51-100, third tier, and fourth tier. (There were also some schools that were not ranked.) Last night, the rag published new rankings – and magically there are now only two tiers?! In your mind, Bob Morse – shill extraordinaire - pronounced that there are only two tiers. By the way, I do not see where this tool made such a statement. See above reference to page 7.

    BTW, even if Bob Morse were to announce that there are now only two tiers, this would not make it so. There are still four tiers. Do you understand that, or do you need me to draw you a diagram with Crayola on posterboard?!?! Even law deans who play the game recognize that these ranking schemes are idiotic and flawed. What does that tell you?

    Since you are impervious to reason, here is one last effort to educate your stupid ass: WHY would William Mitchell College of Law be pissed that they are now ranked 135th, when last year they were rated 98th by US News – if the new ranking places them in the “first tier”?! You are welcome for the beatdown, idiot.

  70. I've been following this blog for more than a month now. In that time, I noticed if someone comes here trying to be a smartass and has bullshit facts, nando is going to steamroll that person. He can be a little over the top occasionally with pictures of shit. But the message is backed up by strong facts.

  71. What on EARTH has people willing and able to devote themselves to the defense of this Morse guy? What is the hypnotic hold he has over them?
    The Morse apologists--what's up with that? I guess I can sort of understand the lost souls who, personally hurt by a public showing that the school they attended or will attend is indeed a festering toilet of law, rush to said commode's defense, but this devotion-to-Morse stuff is beyond me.

  72. Nando, 7:07 here.

    Why the anger Nando? If you are going to partake in a debate with snake oil salesmen on 4/7, it will be easy for the law school deans to rile you up. I suspect this is why they chose to have you at the debate.

    Nando, Bob Morse, in one swift move, eliminated the third tier. Why bite the hand of the man that upgraded your law degree from a TTT to a TT overnight? And he did it for free as in he did not ask you for a dime. Thank the man instead of condemning him. It is clear that the USNWR established two tiers (Tier I: 1-100, Tier 2: 101-14? and then the rest of the wretched unranked schools). Congratulations Nando, you are now a second tier law graduate. With this designation, I am sure doors will open for you in the legal profession.

    Will you continue with the misnomer Third Tier Reality or will you adopt Second Tier Reality as a new blog title?

  73. Well, I guess time will truly tell, then, 7:07/12:50. Shall I sit by the phone and now await the deluge of job-offer calls now that the filthy loo I attended is in the illustrious 2d Tier, by your reasoning?

    Can you guarantee these results to come of Morse's great power?

  74. SeTTTON Hall now the 61st ranked ROTTEN TOILET in North America!

  75. Still think law school was a good investment. Read today's LA Times article on recent law grads desperate to take unpaid internships so that they can avoid gaps in their resumes. Here's a quote:

    "Malibu resident Ashley St. Johns-Jacobs, 40, typically rises before 5 a.m. to get to her job at the Los Angeles city attorney's office by 8 a.m. After a full day prosecuting misdemeanors, she often brings work home.

    What she doesn't bring home is a paycheck. With no position open, she has been working as an unpaid intern for nearly a year in hopes of eventually getting hired when a job opens up.",0,583984.story


  76. Just checked out the latest "rankings." Holy fucking shit -- look at how many law schools now charge $50k+ / year in tuition. Truly unbelievable that it has come to this. Wow.

  77. @9:00PM

    Yes but that is because you are now paying for a tier 1 or 2 legal education. Tiers 3 and 4 have gone the way of the Dodo. Time to polish that resume and correct the interviewer when he/she says "Isn't your alma mater a 3rd tier dumpster?" You can now confidently say "Wrong numbnuts, I am a proud graduate of a 2nd tier law school." You are getting what you are paying for.

  78. This one time in seventh grade when I punched some kid in the face..., not that I would ever attack 14 year olds

  79. I can't stand her

  80. GL Advisor is a unique service designed to help professional graduates manage the repayment of their student loans and other financial matters in order to build a positive net worth. They assist recent graduates with minimizing the cost of their student loans, increasing liquidity through payment relief, and saving time so they can focus on their career.

    I've heard a lot about this group and might be worth a look for all you disgruntled, cash-strapped folks out there.

  81. At least you are MARRIED. What about all of us single girls who thought that getting a law degree would be a ticket to success, or at least an oppurtunity to meet and MARRY a rich guy. Now we have nothing but debt and aging ovum for our 3 long years in school. FOOEY!


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