Friday, March 25, 2011

Reprehensible Waste Pile: Fourth Tier St. Mary’s University School of Law



Tuition: For the 2010-2011 academic year, a full-time law student at St. Mary’s will be charged $28,800 in tuition – plus $606 in fees. That is one hell of a sum, isn’t it?

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same page, the school estimates that a full-time $TTTT. Mary’$ Univer$iTTTTy $chool of Law student will have a total COA of $46,566 – for the same school year. However, you can bet your ass the school is only considering the following costs, for the nine-month calendar: housing; board; personal; and transportation.

It seems that actual law students will need to cover such expenses, for twelve months – not nine months. Taking this into account, a more accurate, estimated COA – for 2010-2011 – would be $51,772. Prospective law students need to look at their likely return on investment.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+7

Ranking: The school is pricey, but surely the institution’s sterling reputation will make this a wise choice, right?!?! Well, according to Vagisil Bob Morse and US News & World Report, this school is now listed as “rank not published.” The commode is located in what was – until the evening of March 14, 2011 - referred to as USN&WR’s vaunted fourth tier. Of course, Pussy Boy does not own the term. Congratulations, St. Mary’s University Sewer of Law: your school is a fourth tier pile of waste.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/st-marys-university-03151

Supposed Employment and Starting Salary Figures: According to Fairy Bob Morse, 85.4% of this commode’s recent JDs were known to be employed at graduation. Yeah, sure they were – and I just struck out Albert Pujols on three straight fast balls. (I suppose many were employed at temp hag agencies, call centers and other non-legal, low-end work. However, this figure still seems highly inflated.) The rag also purports to show that the median private sector starting salary for St. Mary’s law grads was $67,000.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+4

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US News shows that the average student indebtedness – for those members of the St. Mary’s JD Class of 2010 who incurred law school debt – was $97,105. Fully 84% of this poor, unfortunate graduating class took on such toxic debt.

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/741/143/2009-741143128-05bb9bd8-9.pdf

Administrator and “Professor” Salaries: Let’s head over to page 32 of St. Mary University’s 2009 Form 990, to see how well the faculty is doing, in contrast. As you can see, Dean Charles Cantu made $264,049 in TOTAL COMPENSATION – for 2008. Yes, this “educator” made $245,837 in base compensation; $14,831 in deferred compensation; and $3,381 in nontaxable benefits – in one year!

He was not the only pig feeding at the trough. Here is a look at how the following “professors” made out, for the same tax year: Robert W. Platt, $222,088; David A. Schlueter, $203,196; Richard E. Flint, $193,613; and Reynaldo Valencia, $170,459. Apparently, it is very lucrative to “teach” the same old drivel, year after year. What a nice little racket, huh?

http://stmarys.lawschoolnumbers.com/

Generosity of this Catholic Toilet: LSN shows that the school awarded full tuition plus stipend to 0.3% of its students, for 2005-2006. The sewer provided full tuition scholarships to 1.3% of its students, and half-tuition offers to 1.7%, for the same school year. I suppose this (somehow) falls in line with Jesus of Nazareth’s philosophy, right?!?!

http://www.stmarytx.edu/law/

“At St. Mary's University, we combine our tradition of excellence in legal education with new programs and methodologies that prepare our students for the practice of law in a changing world. St. Mary's teaches its students the practical skills that enable them to become professional leaders and effective advocates of legal and social justice.”

This Catholic, Marianist commode wants to produce lawyers who will fight for “social justice.” Isn’t that a laudable goal? In reality, how many can afford to do so - when they are strapped down with mountains of student debt?!?!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=56

Some lemmings had nice things to say about this dump. Back on April 3, 2009, TLS user “brenda” provided some much-needed sobriety to this thread:

“As a former student at St. Mary's Law, I beg everyone considering this school to read this post and take it to heart. I am convinced this is the worst school in the state of Texas. Unless you have a job waiting for you when you graduate (i.e.. your dad or other family member is a lawyer and has promised you a job when you graduate), go somewhere else to law school, or do not go at all.

With the exception of possibly medicine (possibly...), no profession is more snobby about where a person got his degree than law. Do not listen to people who say "just get a law degree from anywhere. The school doesn't matter." Believe me, it matters.
[Emphasis mine]

Conclusion: St. Mary’s University School of Law is an overpriced pile of corroded excrement. You DO NOT NEED to take out an additional $100K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a TTTT law degree. Keep in mind that the school sells itself as an institution that produces social justice advocates.

Do not attend this festering waste pile – UNLESS you are receiving full-tuition and a stipend, guaranteed. Even then, I would advise you to stick with your low-paying, dead-end job.
Remember, you are better off making $35K, with only $30K in student loans, than you would be making $40K – with $130K in such debt. If you are currently making a decent salary - or have a family to feed - do not attend this filth pit, under any circumstances.

72 comments:

  1. Here is a rule of thumb for 0Ls: If a law school is named after a president (except maybe George Washington), Judge or a Saint, the school is not even worth taking a defecation on. I never heard of St. Mary's law school, although I had my stomach pumped at St. Mary's Hospital in Hoboken, NJ. Without reading this entry, if anyone talked about St. Mary's law school, I would automatically say it was a toilet.

    I would rather go learn a useful trade such as plumbing or refrigeration tech than waste over $120K to attend this dump. Believe me, a degree from this place is a permanent shitstain on your "CV."

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  2. Another fine job, Nando. Seems like one more school where things work out well for the faculty but no one else.

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  3. 6:18 wrote

    Believe me, a degree from this place is a permanent shitstain on your "CV."

    Let me take this a little further. I would rather clean truck stop restrooms for three years than attend this shitpile of a law college. Thank you scambloggers for going after these places and not pulling any punches.

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  4. SeTTTON Hall Law's Valvoline Dean exposed!

    Controversies

    A January 15, 2004 New Jersey Law Journal article by Jim Edwards detailed how Seton Hall Law was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation for discrimination practices.[19]

    A September 24, 2007 Wall Street Journal article by Amir Efrati discusses the difficulties law school graduates face in the legal job market. The article quotes a Seton Hall Law graduate who calls his Seton Hall Law degree "a waste".[20]

    An August 15, 2010 Star Ledger article by Leslie Kwoh calls into question Seton Hall Law's published employment statistics, and quotes a graduate describing the school as a "Ponzi scheme" The article discusses the law school's questionable "employment statistics" and how they are used to induce students to attend. Notably, the law school did not provide any backup documentation to support these "statistics" The American Bar Association is studying how all "schools can more accurately report their job placement and salary figures".[21]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seton_hall_law#Controversies

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  5. I didn't want to post this from work, so I am using a coffeehouse wi-fi. Here it is. I work PT for a criminal lawyer. He pays me about $10 an hour for research and help with client interviews. Bastard can't afford his own Westlaw or Lexis account. Talking to other friends (and some from much better law schools) I guess I am lucky. I have the rest of this semester and then one year left at my TT.

    Anyway we get people with missing teeth, halitosis, Crohn's disease, scales, oral herpes, gout (hands and feet), mental disorders, self medicators, psoriasis, severe rashes. They come in all the time. One guy offered to pay us in tamales. No joke. In fucking tamales. Some of these clients come in wearing ratty clothing and torn up shoes. I take a shower the minute I get home. I apply hand sanitizer all the time. Shit, I usually tell clients I can't shake hands b/c I have a cold. Truth is I don't want to catch anything from them. Sometimes after a particularly smelly mofo comes in I spray air freshener all over the office. I did this last week and the boss came out complainijng that he was choking on the fumes. I told him he was better off doing that than smelling the last walk in. One obese older lady came in once and she smelled like feet. I wanted to vomit. If anyone out there is considering law school, do not go. I don't even have much debt and I am miserable. I honestly would rather work at Target or Sears.

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  6. lol @ 9:20

    -pennycrncher

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  7. @7:53

    The Seton Hall Law School controversy has gotten deeper and more serious since the Forbes' article on actual median law school salaries came out. The glossy Seton Hall Law school brochures paint a rosy picture of grads landing $120K in private practice. See SHU Law's own publication on page 1 (nearly 41% reporting a median salary of $120K).

    http://law.shu.edu/publications/upload/career-services-facts.pdf

    Now compare that to $64,600 as reported by Forbes:

    http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen/2011/03/23/law-school-graduates-do-not-make-160000/

    Dean Hobbs has some serious questions to answer, such as, what creative accounting methods were employed to falsely double the median salary stats? This is outright fraudulent conduct that needs to be investigated.

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  8. St. Mary's? I thinks I once banged a girl from there. Lord knows Catholic girls can put a shine on. I once had my eggs scrambled by a...never mind. I's goin' senile in my decomposed state. Ennyways I gotta lotta KFC franchises down in San Antone. Last time I checked, mah ass had 'bout a dozen locations. Thanks for feeding yer faces at mah chickin 'stablishments, heh. Can ya smell what The Colonel's cookin'?

    Lemme break dis shit down for ya. Ya don'ts needs'ta take out a buncha loans to work at one 'o mah famous restaurants. Ya can walk yer ass right in thru those front doors, with a h.s. diploma and I'll hire ya. Gots dat, ya dumb sumbitch. I say, I say, yous can works for me without even goin' ta college. Ya even git a discount on yer KFC meals. How's dat sound?

    I don't give a slippery fuck if ya went t’ St. mary’s or Harvard er Cambridge. Ya feelin’ me yet. I care if ya can man a grease trap, mop a floor, wipe down tables, close a lid on an order o’ ol’ fashioned mashed taters. It makes no matter to me if ya has student loans comin’ out yer ears. It’s fine by me if ya never plan on goin’ to no school. (Shit, back in mah day ya could’a been a lawyer wit’ no schoolin’.)

    If yous alreadys enrolled in this shithole, like a dumbass, its not too late. Ya can awlays drop out and come work for The Colonel. If ya network, you sho'ly can work yer ways up to manager. Can Dave Thomas makes a similar claim? Thought not.

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  9. Glad you're back, Colonel.

    I love how religiously-affiliated law schools croon about "social justice", yet leave their graduates with such staggering, non-dischargable debt that their graduates will have to do anything *other* than social justice in order to survive. Man does not live by bread alone, of course, but it certainly helps.

    God must be short on cash, so the administrators have to charge market rates. By contrast, the Devil is apparently rolling in dough (look around), but I guess that is to be expected.

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  10. Colonel- While your cuisine may be an acquired taste, I appreciate your no nonsense approach.

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  11. The Colonel is in the building!

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  12. Query: Does going to a law school named after a saint make you feel all cozy inside? Like maybe you have a halo, and us blue collar state law school are heathens? Going to a Catholic high school is fine, but - and I believe someone mentioned this a few weeks ago, if you're coming from a law school that is affiliated with a Catholic university or named after a Saint, e.g., St. Mary's, St. Thomas (aside from the fact that they are 100% toilets to begin with) or Catholic University, your resume is going in the trash. Hope you prayed long and hard while you were in attendance.

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  13. Dude, you rock. Put a button for paypal donations on your page and I would gladly contribute, as I'm sure others would. You're doing god's work here.

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  14. @1:40, great idea.

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  15. This is also from the TLS thread listed in the main entry:

    TLS user “fnm” provided some honesty, on October 15, 2007.

    “I'm not an expert on Texas law schools, but everyone I know from Texas has mostly negative reviews of St. Mary. A very large portion of their grads are still looking for jobs. Just b/c its the only law school in san antonio doesn't mean it places well in san antonio; UT will get the top jobs, then SMU, then Baylor, then U. of Houston, then St. Mary grads can compete for whatever's left.”

    Thank you, 1:40 pm. I appreciate the kind words. However, my debt is not crippling. I write this blog primarily to inform potential law students, because I am sick of seeing the law school industry pigs feeding off of the carcasses of recent JDs. I have received several emails from people, telling me that this blog helped them decide to no longer pursue a “legal education.” I have also seen many posts on other forums, where contributors have thanked the scam-bloggers for their efforts.

    In the end, our goal is pretty modest and manageable. I do not expect the commodes to close their doors – or to reduce tuition. However, as the word spreads, more people will be leery of even applying to law school. This may force the commodes to re-evaluate their role, in this mess. In the last analysis, only when university administrators feel that they can no longer make a killing will you see designs for new law schools scrapped.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704396504576204692878631986.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird#articleTabs%3Darticle

    On March 17, 2011, the Wall Street Journal reported that the number of law school applicants decreased by 11.5 percent, from last year. This is a significant drop. However, I recognize that this is merely a start. I further realize that the law school swine will NOT reduce their incoming classes by 11.5 percent. In fact, I would be startled if the sewers of law were willing to accept a 3%-5% reduction in first year enrollment. My guess is the pigs will lower their admission standards somewhat – if it means keeping the income flow stable. In the end, the toilets are interested in MONEY first and foremost.

    Even if they were to take in slightly smaller classes, the law school cockroaches would make damn sure to increase tuition further. In essence, they would use this as a rationale for a larger tuition bump.

    Several people have told me that I should turn this blog into a book. I am not sure if I will do so – or whether there would be any interest among publishers, for such a work. The schools are armed with tons of federally-backed student loan money. They can hire PR shills, send out sales reps, and publish nonsense. We have the facts on our side. It is imperative that we continue to expose these over-priced, unethical toilets.

    Dupednontrad, apparently these Catholic commodes must resort to earthly means, such as publishing misleading info, manipulating employment stats, and producing glossy websites devoid of any substance. It is beyond disgusting that these religious schools charge huge sums - and then push "public service" and "social justice" onto their debt-soaked students.

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  16. Gee-zuz, there are more TTT's in this country than Sunoco stations. Although quite often, both type of institutions will feature fax machines.

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  17. StMU Law is not what it once was but is undeserving of such a negative review. Recently, their Mock Trial and Moot Court teams have had incredible success on a national level. Assuming the employment rates given are correct, they are not the measure of a successful lawyer. Any licensed lawyer has the ability to make a decent living on his own, even if he/she is not hired by some insurance defense hourly billing mill. I do agree, however, that the tuition rates are quite high, especially given the low Bar passage rates in recent years by St. MU Law graduates. It's not Harvard but the little guys in the world need lawyers too, even the ones who can only pay in tamales.

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  18. @6:28

    Last I checked, you can't pay rent, buy gas, or reduce your student loan debt with tamales. Nothing wrong with helping the little guy, of course. But what if the lawyer is the little guy?

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  19. That's right, and, ultimately, much the point of the scamblog movement: there are PLENTY of struggling attorneys out there to compete for the tamale-laden client. Plenty. Many, I'm sure, trying to meet clients either in their parents' basement or at Starbucks.

    We needn't commit vast additional resources into creating more. At least, not without a stern warning to the kids what may, very likely, become of them post-TTT: heavily-indebted, underpaid "professionals" in a horrendously-overcrowded "profession."

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  20. good job as always, Nando, btw when are you going to sink UMKC or Univ. of Missouri law school? keep up the good work.

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  21. 920..welcome to the world of shitlaw. As a 20 yr practitioner with a last in class degree from a 4t toilet profiled on this site, I feel your pain. At some point though you get used to it and some money can be made. Most people smell and are dumb and if you arent rich already, you arent representing the Rockefellers or other clean people on a day to day basis.

    Its kind of like being a teacher who has to talk to dumb ass know it all kids day in and day out. I have no idea what it is like to have professional clients who I can talk to who understand something more then welfare or sue. They smell, they are like grown up 4th graders, but they do have cases and you deal with it. I provide well for my family and am still happier then if i was making a shit salary managing some crappy sales job or a KFC etc.

    What was the alternative. Work at Target or Sears? Yeah that might seem ok at age 25, but you look like a douchebag at age 45 working in those stores I dont care what title you have. Maybe I can learn HVAC or some trade. So i start my own business and have to deal with employees with the same mentality as my clients. Failure and frustration. Try getting paid as a low level contractor for all of your work.

    Most people are not happy in their jobs. They deal with idiots and shit all day. Law is no different, but you can make money. It will just be hard and it is not for everyone. If this blog was around 20 years ago, I probably dont go to law school but dont think I would be doing something and would be any happier. With tuition higher and even less jobs, you have to be a fool to go today, but the working world overall is worse so dont think you can get something better and avoid the shitty people of society.

    Good luck to all those wanna be lawyers out there. Law schools arent going anywhere. Applications are down, but I would guess from middle class white kids. Im assuming they are up for minorities and foreigners who on the whole are not as smart as the white kids bailing on this profession. Schools just see the money and it will always flow.

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  22. Nando, props for spreading the message. However, there are many fools such as the one featured on this youtube video that are willing to take a chance of going into debt servitude in order to live the glorious lifestyle of a lawyer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VZ18NAAcyc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    Notice this douche's advice for actors, which is, go to law school since it is better than waiting tables while your "big break" arrives.

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  23. I practice shitlaw. I've been out of schools for a little less than 5 years. In fact, I am typing this up while pinching a loaf. Catch my drift?

    No I am not making this shit up. I am taking a five alarm shit while posting this comment.I can't think of anything more appropriate.

    Here is how I spent today. I woke up late, brushed my teeth and my 1996 Chevy Malibu to the office. (you notice I didn't mention breakfast. I couldn't afford it. Even when I have breakfast, it is usually a bowl of generic cold cereal.) Actually, the office is a broom closet in a large run down office building. I share a receptionist with about 20 other shitlawyers. (The witch has blue finger and toenail polish, and she has a pierced nose. She is probably 30 but looks 40ish.)

    my 10 o'clock appointment was a no show. I perused some of my other case files. One dickhead wants to appeal the custody order. Unfortunately, the guy has less money than a skid row bum. Lunch came and went. I consumed some dollar chicken fingers and a value fry from Burger King. I couldn't afford a meal or drink, so I asked for a free small cup of water. I shoulda told the guy taking my order that I'm a lawyer. Temp workers can afford to eat better.

    After lunch, I called the court on a drug possession case. The state has not provided any evidence, even though the judge already granted my earlier mtp. The life of shitlaw. Now, we have another hearing set for the 30th. Oh I should've mentioned that we have had the 2nd ptc already. I called the state attorney on the case before I called the judge. Now she is pissed at me. I left the office at 4 today. My perpetually drunk friend from college makes a lot more than me. He was nice enough to let me know he has another hot date with this sexy Chicana. I saw her a few weeks ago. She is gorgeous and has big doe eyes. He is probably eating her pussy right about now. Here I am at alittle past midnight on a Friday visiting this site and taking a dump. Who would you rather be?

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  24. @10:12pm:

    Why don't you do everything that you described from your cell phone and wifi laptop? Why did you waste the day going into your office?

    It sounds like you did about a half hour of actual work. You called a district attorny, a judge, a client, and looked at some files.

    You could've done this from home, a cafe, Border/Barnes&Noble, a gym, the mall, etc. Practicing shitlaw is not a bad part time job.

    It doesn't sound like you should be paying for a real office. Get a virtual office for a mailing address and to meet, and impress, new clients. Talk to old clients on the cell phone and in court.

    Shitlaw new clients are notorious no shows. Have an office close to home so you don't waste time meeting them. Meet them the same day as the intake phone call. Have something to do while you wait and so you don't waste time if they don't show.

    The Lincoln Lawyer is a cool new movie about shitlaw. Enjoy it. It's the easiest part time job you'll ever have.

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  25. Maybe you aren't aware of this. But in New Jersey, you can't have a virtual office and be a lawyer. You gotta have regular business hours and a physical office space to meet clients.

    And my office is close to where I live. (It's also close to the local court.) Maybe I'll get lucky (for once) and an angry client will follow me home and stab me to death in my crappy apt.

    And believe me, I always try to get clients in the same day as the intake call. I think it reeks of desperation. Which is the case. But do I want the client thinking that this is a desperate motherfucker? They sometimes feel pressured when I ask them to come in the same day.

    Why should I go see the Lincoln Lawyer? I would end up going by myself and a matinee, of course. Like I can afford to pay for an evening show. My friend (sonuvabitch works in sales) went out and probably fucked the shit out of his hot Latina gf last night and I can't even afford to go to a fucking late movie. By myself. Anyway, meeting clients at Starbucks is true shit. Would you be impressed meeting a licensed lawyer at fucking Borders?

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  26. @3:38

    The movie "Lincoln Lawyer" is fiction and bad fiction at that. You say get rid of the office and practice from home, Starbucks or maybe out of a Lincoln Towncar.

    1) Many states have a bona fide office rule requirement. Ethics committees have ruled that virtual offices do not satisfy the bona fide office requirement. You need an actual brick and mortar office, somewhere you keep files, where mail and phone calls are received and where you meet clients regularly. A virtual office is cheap but it may run afoul of your jurisdiction's rules. I know two published opinions in the past year where attorneys were sanctioned for having a virtual office.

    2) Meeting clients or taking calls at a Starbucks or local coffee shop is not only unprofessional but breaches attorney-client privilege. If I am ordering a latte, I don't want to hear a loudmouth shitlaw attorney talking to his client about how long it is taking to shakedown the insurance company. Who knows, I could be so annoyed that I will ask the barista who the lawyer is, sit next to him, listen and then call the insurance company's legal department and spill the shitlaw attorney's legal strategy. Guess who gets in trouble shitbag? Not me.

    3) Yeah, a Lincoln Towncar is a more private venue to meet clients and take calls. However, 99% of shitlaw attorneys I know drive beat up clunkers. If you can afford a Lincoln Towncar, you can afford a brick and mortar office.

    Oh and if you get an office, in addition to malpractice insurance, get premises liability insurance since most shitlaw clients will slip and fall in your reception area. Then again, most shitlaw attorneys are judgment proof as they are destitute.

    P.S. I read two articles in the last month about how Debtor's prison is back in Minnesota and Illinois. Imagine that, people going to jail because of a bullshit contempt order stemming from a collection of debt lawsuit. Sallie Mae maybe your jailer in the future in addition to your overlord.

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  27. In defense of the school being named after a saint, at least the school arose on its own years ago and was not created by a pizza magnate.

    I will say that the average salary that they published is a joke. Unless you are one of the 2-5 people who land something at a big firm or are one of the 5-10 older students who return to their former non-attorney employment where they were actually making good money, most employment at an established firm will pay you between $35,000-$55,000 per year. But even that range is misleading. The $35,000 a year jobs usually come with answering telephones at a PI firm. A good percentage of the $55,000 per year jobs try to pass themselves off as "contract" positions and usually don't offer any benefits and the employer won't withhold any income tax. Therefore, you get the whammy of buying your own health insurance and paying self-employed taxes at the end of the year. Subtract from that salary about $5,000 to $10,000 in student loans payments per year just to cover what you took out to pay for law school, and you can easily see why you're still poor.

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  28. What an outrageous scam it all is.

    Kids--Do NOT go to Law School.

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  29. These are excellent posts. Once again, a thread has gotten its second wind. Thank you all for warning the kids on the numerous drawbacks of this ARMPIT of a profession.

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  30. @ James

    I think that I've got you beat with my encounter with a dirty client. While clerking at the Public Defender's office, I welcomed a scruffy looking man in his 40s into the office. He looked like a truck stop serial rapist with his foam dome and pot belly protruding under his flannel shirt. Since it was my second week, I did not know any better, and shook the runt's hand. Anyone want to hazard a guess at to what this crap law client had for a charge? Masturbating on a bench while waiting at the bus mall - a mere 3 hours earlier. I said that I needed to grab a notepad as an excuse and ran to the bathroom. I put the hotwater on full blast and finished half the soap dispenser. My fingers have less sensation because the scalding water probably killed all my nerves.

    Lemmings, don't think for a second that as a criminal attorney you'll deal with lofty Consitutional issues or expose police misconduct. Illegal searches, Miranda violations, etc. almost never happen. As someone mentioned earlier, crap law clients are so mentally stunted that they are on a 4th grade comprehension level. Take the public masturbator for example. He pulled out his deal in plain day light in front of dozens of people. No need to get a warrant! With the whole event caught on security tape, there was no need to call witnesses either. Just human sewage to be processed by the system.

    -Stephen

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  31. I'm afraid we may be taking all the romance out of law for the kids, eh? Their naive visions of a Jack McCoy-like career, of picking up shell casings with the tip of their pen, of dramatic verbal altercations with "the Feds", of cavorting with hot female Assistant Prosecutors. Uh-huh.

    They'll be in local District Court with the public urinators, exposers, assorted drunks and traffic-ticket types. As I told one young man I represented on a minor offense recently, "take a good look around you, son, and report back to your buddies thinking of a career in law. This is what it really looks like, and who you will really be with."

    And, as you guys know well, a bar card doesn't mean shit anymore, and hasn't for a long time. Oh, there may be in some cases an "attorney" line, but you stand in line and empty your pockets like anyone else, get scanned, and get treated like shit by security guards.

    Oh, the glamor!

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  32. This post has devolved into shitlaw horror stories. Stephen, that comment made me want to rush to the bathroom and wash my hands. Real sick stuff. But I've actually heard of this happening before.

    5:49 you are doing a service to these lemmings. I go in through the metal detector, put all my shit into the bins and get scanned. With all the other schlubs. The fat slob police officers look at you as if you were just another criminal. I guess if you represent scum you must be scum. Or so the thinking goes. The prosecutors and judges have their own line. Not defense counsel.

    Shitlaw clients are morons. I had one guy who was caught on camera mugging an old lady for her purse. Fucking bum did this in a mall. Yeah, they probably got cameras there ya think?

    Anyway the guy tells me that he didn't do it. I contact the mall security booth for a copy of the tape. My guy was caught cold. I tell him I saw the tape. He then maintains that he was not on film. At this point, I lose my patience. So I showed him the fucking tape. Guess what this guy does next. He denies that that was him. When I explain to him (as calm as I could) that I cannot go in front of the judge and tell him that the guy is innocent, he loses his cool. Dumbshit expected me to get him off scot free. He then stormed off. Then he no showed at his pretrial hearing. Minutes before the hearing, I got him on the phone and he said he forgot about the hearing. I moved for a continuance and I must have got the judge on a good day because he granted it. Wait. It gets better. At the next hearing, the client no showed again. It turns out the guy got high at his girlfriend's and decided not to show up to court. The judge issued a bench warrant and glared at me. You know, because it was my fault for not walking this asshole through the courthouse. When he got out of jail, the bastard then file a bar complaint against me. It was tossed out. Still, I wanted to strangle that moron. He then told everyone that I screwed him over. I stopped taking court appoined shit soon after this case.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I do have to say that "normal" people don't need the services of attorneys too much, do they? They might need a divorce or a will or maybe someone to represent them if they were in an automobile accident, but if you are just an average person with no complex business dealings, how often should you need the services of an attorney?

    This is something for people consider. They aren't going to land the job as personal attorney for the wealthiest family in the neighborhood.

    ReplyDelete
  34. In his novels Dickens often portrayed the "legal" part of town as being dark, dingy, sooty, dumpy and dirty and pretty depressing.

    After reading the stories above I can understand why.

    But still--someone's gotta do it right?

    I wouldn't want to be the one that "undertakes" the most disagreeable tasks that the Undertaker does (hence the title), but someone's gotta do it.

    Seinfeld, on the show, said something about everyone doing a job that no one else wants to do, but the person doing it--and that's how a career is chosen.

    ReplyDelete
  35. "Oh boo-hoo I have to work with low lifes boo-hoo."

    What the hell did you guys expect before taking public interest jobs? I think the bigger problem here is law grads going straight to law school after college, never working in the real world, and never meeting "real people." That's why it's such a shock for you guys to see a real "dirty low life" in person.

    FYI, I'm volunteering right now for a Public Defender's Office, when I go to court I say "hi" to the court officers, they let me cut in front of all the defendants, and I walk right through the metal detector as it beeps. Must be your smugness and feeling of being "higher and mightier" than the common police officer that makes them treat you like just another defendant.

    Get a clue people, get over yourselves, and learn to adapt.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Ok time for a lesson in the reality of becoming a lawyer.

    Many states have mandatory CLE (continuing legal education) requirements. As a newly minted attorney, you will have to enroll in useless seminars and spend hours in lectures to satisfy these requirements. These seminars and course are NOT FREE. Altogether, you will spend thousands of dollars to satisfy these requirements. There is no way out of it. Sure you can do a free CLE offered by a non-profit that will commit you to a set hours of pro bono work. Remember kids, there are no free lunches in this world.

    Another expense as a new lawyer is the client protection fund. You see, your brethren steals from clients. To be made whole, the bar punishes the honest attorneys by having them pay hundreds of dollars each year into a fund that compensates clients that have been wronged by attorneys. It doesn't matter that you are as clean as a houndstooth, you will have to pay into this fund.

    I read an article last month about States cutting their budgets by eliminating subsidies to legal aid or legal services provided to the indigent. The State bars are responding by proposing to increase pro bono requirements among private attorneys to fill in the gaps. This means attorneys in the near future will have to commit hundreds of hours to pro bono work each year. How does pro bono work? One day you are in your office trying to finish a complaint to file before you blow the statute of limitations. Then your phone rings. It is the Clerk of the Court. He/she has assigned you a divorce case between two nasty people. You of course have no divorce experience but the Clerk doesn't give a fuck. You get the case.

    These pro bono clients will blow up your phone and will insist on having your mobile phone or else they will file a complaint against you to the ethics committee (failure to be accesible to your clients, etc.). They will call you 10x a day, scream at you and berate you ("do you know what the fuck you are doing?") and all for the princely sum of $0.

    Yes kids, if you are in law school, this is what awaits you. Sallie Mae doesn't give a shit about how your car's tires just got slashed by your pro bono client's ex (good look proving it) or how you are not getting paid by clients.

    Some noble profession right? If you are an 0L, and you want to be a crusader of social justice, you will get your chance. It will come at a premium. Oh, and if you think all this is unfair or unconstitutional, the bar will simply tell you to turn in your bar card if you don't like it. Welcome to the wonderful legal profession.

    ReplyDelete
  37. 9:12 wrote down:

    'FYI, I'm volunteering right now for a Public Defender's Office, when I go to court I say "hi" to the court officers, they let me cut in front of all the defendants, and I walk right through the metal detector as it beeps. Must be your smugness and feeling of being "higher and mightier" than the common police officer that makes them treat you like just another defendant.'

    OK, you smug little shit. I never said I was better than these people. I do however make sure to have good personal hygeine. I also make it a point not to break into people's homes. Or beatup my landlord. Or throw my girlfriend down the stairs. I even pay my taxes (even though, like everyone else, I hate doing it).

    Btw, whose dick are you sucking on in order to cut in front of the line? FYI, the people behind you will despise you for that. I don't know. Maybe hardened or career criminals are looking for reasons to hate lawyers more. They will think 'Why is this little prick so special? The detector went off and they let this cocksucker walk through. If I'd done that, they would pull me aside and frisk me or question me.' (Some of these people may become future clients of yours.) I hope the court officer you're blowing has the syph. It'd serve you right.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Last week I signed a PI client whose case I valued at about $500k. Three weeks ago I won a jury trial on another case. I’m also representing business clients in federal commercial litigation. There is nothing unusual about any of this. There are lots of lawyers like me.

    Do you want to know my secret?
    It is actually pretty simple. My secret is:

    I don’t feel superior to other people just because I have a JD next to my name.

    These blog comments say how we’d all be better off if we were blue collar workers, teachers, doctors, corporate employees, etc. These blog comments also say that representing ordinary people is “shitlaw” and utterly beneath us. It is utterly beneath us to represent an ordinary person who is injured, going through a divorce, or got charged with a crime. It is utterly beneath us to represent an ordinary person, who is a medical doctor, in a medical malpractice case because it is “shitlaw”. It is utterly beneath us to represent smaller companies in commercial litigation even though we litigate in the same courts against biglaw attorney, in exactly the same way as biglaw attorneys do.

    Do you think clients can’t tell that you don’t respect them? Do you think clients can’t tell that you don’t take pride in what you do? Do you think jurors can’t tell when you condescend to them because you are so much smarter than they are?

    I don’t think that I’m better than other people because I happen to know about law. I don’t think that my doctor, or my accountant, are better than me because they know more about their respective fields. I don’t think that opposing counsel in big firms are better people (or better lawyers) because, decades ago, they got better grades.

    New attorney/law student snobbery doesn’t offend me and it doesn’t harm me. But it completely destroys you because it demoralizes you and prevents you from ever having the chance to be successful.

    ReplyDelete
  39. "Get a clue people, get over yourselves, and learn to adapt.

    March 27, 2011 9:12 AM"

    Must be interesting working in a MICROSCOPICALLY small jurisdiction where they let people through the screening and no one objects. What District or Circuit Court would that be, specifically? I would love to know where they are waiving people by, you know, just to be nice.

    My bullshit detector has pegged.

    ReplyDelete
  40. It is funny that this thread has turned into a discussion on the nature of toilet-law. The fact is many recent St. Mary’s JDs will be lucky to even land such positions. Several will simply be happy to find a job.

    However, it is tough to find non-legal employment, as a recent law graduate. Back on November 3, 2010, former Biglaw associate and current psychotherapist Will Meyerhofer drove a stake through the following law school mantra: “A law degree will open up a world possibilities for you.”

    http://thepeoplestherapist.com/2010/11/03/extremely-versatile-crockery/

    “But there’s a bigger, broader problem with switching careers when you have the letters JD after your name: people hate lawyers.

    Why do they hate lawyers? A bunch of reasons.

    If you are a real person in the outside world, the word “lawyer” means obstruction. The phrase “run it past Legal” means you might as well give up, ’cause it’s never gonna happen. Exciting business ventures ooze to a standstill like a sabre-toothed tiger in the La Brea Tar Pits. Some risk-adverse dweeb in a suit will spout dire warnings to you about unlikely contingencies until nothing seems like it’s any fun anymore.

    Lawyer means pretentious – socially awkward losers with fancy degrees telling you what to do when they’ve never run a business in their lives.

    Lawyer means threats. “You’ll hear from my lawyer” is the worst thing you can say to another person. And lawyers love to write threatening letters – it’s what they do best. That’s why lawyer is synonymous with wasted time and wasted money.

    Lawyer means annoyance. Lawyer means hassles. Lawyer means a total void of common sense. Lawyer means expensive, with little to show for it.

    Now mail someone in the real world a resume that says “lawyer” all over it and ask yourself why you never got called in for an interview.”

    Keep in mind that Meyerhofer notes that it is difficult to switch careers as an attorney. Imagine the odds facing a recent law grad. Non-legal employers will view you as a loser who couldn’t crack into the legal field. In the alternative, they will wonder why you are turning down a chance at “the big bucks” to work for them.

    ReplyDelete
  41. "I hope the court officer you're blowing has the syph. It'd serve you right.

    March 27, 2011 11:11 AM"

    Thank you, 11:11. I can't pinpoint ONE District or Circuit court I have been to in my whole State where I have ever seen ANYONE, known or not, "waived through" the screening process. That is bullshit. Let alone, someone with the PUBLIC DEFENDER's Office? Double bullshit. Either that, or some real out-of-the-way backwater where no one's looking.

    ReplyDelete
  42. LOL @ 11:11 and 12:57...it's not hard for the court officers to know who the lawyers are. I'm not in a very small jurisdiction, but the same lawyers see the same court officers every time we are in court. Therefore, in the interest of efficiency, they let us go through the metal detectors and get set up inside the courtroom first. You need not suck anyone's dick to gain this privilege. Simply wearing a suit and telling them you are a lawyer is enough.

    But I realize it may not be like this in every jurisdiction, so what's the problem with emptying your pockets and walking through a metal detector? I know what the problem is, it's you...you feel that you're above doing something like that. The same way you put down your clients for their bad hygiene and the "dumb" crimes they committed, and call the whole gig shitlaw. Guess your arrogant ass though you would be defending Bernie Madoff every time in court.

    Sorry that realty has crashed down on your like a ton of bricks, maybe you should have taken some time off between college and law school, and worked a job where you got more acquainted with the "common folk." It really is sad that now you spend your time crying about your life on a web blog.

    ReplyDelete
  43. "ANYONE, known or not, "waived through" the screening process. That is bullshit. Let alone, someone with the PUBLIC DEFENDER's Office? Double bullshit. Either that, or some real out-of-the-way backwater where no one's looking.
    March 27, 2011 1:03 PM"

    "Let alone someone with the PUBLIC DEFENDER'S office?"

    LOL, that statement alone shows how the arrogant mind works. As if Public Defenders have less of a chance to be waived through the metal detector than a private lawyer. In your mind, a private lawyer is better than public defender who is better than lay person and allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way down the list is the criminal defendant who smells and is charged with stealing a Snickers bar from the gas station. And in a cruel twist of fate you somehow got stuck defending this guy. Oh, the injustice! How must you, who worked through law school and entered the noble profession of law, be forced to stand next to this smelly riff raff petty thief? Surely better things were planned for you.

    Here's a tip your parents obviously never taught you: Never think of yourself as better than another person.

    ReplyDelete
  44. There is a reason why small law is commonly known as shit or toilet law and it has nothing to do with the type of law you practice (perhaps with the exception of personal injury and insurance defense). The reason it is "shitlaw" is due to the people you have to deal with on a regular basis. I practice in a State where 90% of the judges are appointed (politically motivated of course) without any prior trial experience, meaning 90% of judges never tried a case during their careers as practitioners. Thus, you can expect in some cases that the judge will misapply the law and then you have to appeal. This is a shitty result.

    Then you have the clients. Biglaw clients usually pay the legal bills, sometimes under protest but they pay. Shitlaw clients will often lowball your fees, pay with phony checks, make excuses about non-payment and Courts will generally not let you out of the case if your client refuses to pay you. In fact, once I was in court and a lawyer brought a motion to withdraw as counsel. The lawyer claimed the client was difficult and uncooperative. The client interupted and said "Judge, he lying. He just wants to get out of the case because I haven't paid him his full fat retainer." When the Judge heard this, he asked the lawyer if the client owed him money and he said "Yes." Thereupon, the Judge angrily yelled "Counsellor, your motion is DENIED! Next time you bring up a motion like this because you are having a hard time collecting your fees from your client, I will sanction you. You are forewarned."

    The commenter at 12:10PM is comical. He claims many lawyers look down on their clients. IN fact, in shitlaw, it is entirely the opposite: THE CLIENTS LOOK DOWN ON YOU! They think they own you.

    I will share one story with you. Many years ago, I represented a woman who was petitioning for her legal residency. After preparing her case, which was replete with problems, she got her residency. After she was granted her residency, she thanked God (not me) and said "thank God the officer was stupid not to realize this was a sham marriage." She owed me $1,000 when her case was approved. After years of trying to collect the $1,000, I gave up. Sure I could have sued her for the fee but in "shitlaw" you will learn that when you sue for fees, the client will countersue for malpractice or some other bogus shit. Anyway, 5 years go by. I get a letter from the fee arbitration committee naming me as a respondent and the immigration client as the complaintant. Apparently, the client wanted the $1,500 she had paid me refunded to her because I did nothing for her. In her complaint she stated that all I did was fill out some forms and that she did all the talking at her immigration interview. Although this was a bullshit complaint, I had to hire counsel to represent me, which cost me over $2,000.00. In the end, the fee arbitration committee sided with me. But the damage was done. Now I have to report to my malpractice carrier every fucking year about this incident which drove up my malpractice premiums. I had to spend more money than I made on the case to defend a BS fee dispute. And you wonder why it's called "shitlaw?"

    ReplyDelete
  45. There is a reason why small law is commonly known as shit or toilet law and it has nothing to do with the type of law you practice (perhaps with the exception of personal injury and insurance defense). The reason it is "shitlaw" is due to the people you have to deal with on a regular basis. I practice in a State where 90% of the judges are appointed (politically motivated of course) without any prior trial experience, meaning 90% of judges never tried a case during their careers as practitioners. Thus, you can expect in some cases that the judge will misapply the law and then you have to appeal. This is a shitty result.

    Then you have the clients. Biglaw clients usually pay the legal bills, sometimes under protest but they pay. Shitlaw clients will often lowball your fees, pay with phony checks, make excuses about non-payment and Courts will generally not let you out of the case if your client refuses to pay you. In fact, once I was in court and a lawyer brought a motion to withdraw as counsel. The lawyer claimed the client was difficult and uncooperative. The client interupted and said "Judge, he lying. He just wants to get out of the case because I haven't paid him his full fat retainer." When the Judge heard this, he asked the lawyer if the client owed him money and he said "Yes." Thereupon, the Judge angrily yelled "Counsellor, your motion is DENIED! Next time you bring up a motion like this because you are having a hard time collecting your fees from your client, I will sanction you. You are forewarned."

    The commenter at 12:10PM is comical. He claims many lawyers look down on their clients. IN fact, in shitlaw, it is entirely the opposite: THE CLIENTS LOOK DOWN ON YOU! They think they own you.

    ReplyDelete
  46. (continued from 2:39PM)

    I will share one story with you. Many years ago, I represented a woman who was petitioning for her legal residency. After preparing her case, which was replete with problems, she got her residency. After she was granted her residency, she thanked God (not me) and said "thank God the officer was stupid not to realize this was a sham marriage." She owed me $1,000 when her case was approved. After years of trying to collect the $1,000, I gave up. Sure I could have sued her for the fee but in "shitlaw" you will learn that when you sue for fees, the client will countersue for malpractice or some other bogus shit. Anyway, 5 years go by. I get a letter from the fee arbitration committee naming me as a respondent and the immigration client as the complaintant. Apparently, the client wanted the $1,500 she had paid me refunded to her because I did nothing for her. In her complaint she stated that all I did was fill out some forms and that she did all the talking at her immigration interview. Although this was a bullshit complaint, I had to hire counsel to represent me, which cost me over $2,000.00. In the end, the fee arbitration committee sided with me. But the damage was done. Now I have to report to my malpractice carrier every fucking year about this incident which drove up my malpractice premiums. I had to spend more money than I made on the case to defend a BS fee dispute. And you wonder why it's called "shitlaw?"

    ReplyDelete
  47. "Here's a tip your parents obviously never taught you: Never think of yourself as better than another person.

    March 27, 2011 1:48 PM"

    YOU miss the point ENTIRELY in your zeal to be holier-than-thou. I haven't seen anyone waived through in this State, REGARDLESS of who they represent. YOU'RE the one insisting people are seeing themselves as somehow above others, depending on who they represent. Where that comes from, I haven't the slightest idea.

    You can climb off the high horse now. You will be more comfortable.

    ReplyDelete
  48. In Connecticut, where I practice, some state courts will allow attorneys to cut to the front of the metal detector line, they still have to clean out their pockets to pass through. If anyone doubts me, check out the GA 23 and JD Courts.

    ReplyDelete
  49. The arrogant person at 9:12 comes on this board telling everyone that they should have held down a job in the “real world” after college, instead of going straight to law school. Where does that assumption come from?!?! Several posters on here and other forums - such as JDU and Tom the Temp - did not go straight to law school, from undergrad. Maybe you shouldn’t rush to judgment.

    Many of the posters here have held jobs where they met with “real people” - prior to law school. Several have worked with low-income clients and customers, before applying to graduate school. Others have worked in construction, call centers, and other low-end positions. They may be upset that they are still working in low-wage positions, despite having spent seven years - plus large sums of borrowed money - on “higher education.”

    Also, take into account that these clients often expect you to perform miracles, on their behalf. (Even if you are able to do so, do not expect any appreciation or gratitude from the client.) The client is often not paying for your services, in criminal defense or family law practice. As such, there is no disincentive for them to call you several times a day. They feel that they own you outright - and that their particular case should be your biggest priority.

    Thanks for the laughs, Public Defender volunteer. You have the nerve to scold others for pointing out the realities of toilet-law, and you refer to them as “smug.” Do you see the irony in that?!

    “Simply wearing a suit and telling them you are a lawyer is enough.”

    You come across as an immature, 20 year old kid. Maybe YOU should gain some life, i.e. real world, experience before posting on this subject. If courts were that lax, how long would it take for criminal defendants to start pulling that garbage? When I was in clinic, I saw experienced, skilled private lawyers go through the metal detectors. The police officers knew that these guys were lawyers, and they still had them empty their pockets and go through the line. Why would they allow a PD volunteer to go to the front of the line - and walk through the metal detectors?!?! Such a person presumably does not even have a law license.

    Imagine what would happen if some attorney brought a knife into court, even if by accident, and something occurred in the courthouse. Those law enforcement officers are NOT going to take that chance. From their perspective, it is MUCH better to inconvenience every licensed private lawyer who comes to the courthouse, than be on the hook if something happens. Do you want to be known as the lazy bastard who let a weapon into a courtroom? It may be difficult for you, 9:12/1:15/1:48, but try and apply some common sense here.

    “Guess your arrogant ass though you would be defending Bernie Madoff every time in court.”

    By the way, I am pretty sure that no reasonable attorney or law student expected to defend pieces of trash such as Bernard Madoff “every time.” Only delusional ass-hats feel that this will be the case.

    ReplyDelete
  50. http://www.press-citizen.com/article/20110327/OPINION01/103270301/0/OPINION01/Law-school-great-devourer?odyssey=nav|head

    Law school: A great devourer

    Even small-city US newspapers are starting to notice and spread the word. Great job!

    ReplyDelete
  51. in my small town, lawyers get waived through metal detectors all the time. I get in line, start to empty my pockets trying to make sure I dont think I am special. Most Sheriffs waive me through and say hello. If it is a new Deputy, they dont know me and I just follow procedure. While this may not be the case in bigger cities, it is the norm in most small towns in my state and i am not even a lawyer who is at the courthouse more then once a week if that.

    We all have shit law stories. It is the negative of the job. We all know that stuff will happen going in, but what is getting harder is getting the work that will pay your debt off and make you more then just some joe with an average 35-55k salary plus tiny raises and no job security for the rest of your life. You can make real money being a lawyer and you can also get buried in debt. It is risky like starting any other business with similar revenue potential.

    What has changed the game is the substantial increase in law schools and the tuition. At some point it is a bad risk just like opening up a surf shop in Kansas. Kids today see so much wealth and toys belonging to idiots that they will take the risk of law school without realizing how it can destroy them.

    The world has changed and law school will continue to be popular because it is a way toward wealth even if it has become more difficult. The days of graduating college, getting a good job, getting a decent spouse, and being able to live in a safe place is gone. That is why kids go to law school when they have no business going or are waiting until later in life to get married or have kids. It is embarrasing to be living with parents or loser roomates while working a crap job. Law school buys you three years and you feel like you are working toward something. The fall is often harder, but atleast you have a chance.

    Damned if you do, damned if you dont, but dont think not going to law school saves you the misery that all who go seem to be suffering.

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  52. HEEEEELP! Some disgusting animal just took a Huuuuuuuuge 'SETON HALL LAW' in the office toilet! The janitor keeps flushing and flushing but it won't go down! It's demanding $45k per year to go away!

    ReplyDelete
  53. Went here. After 1 L year, and roughly top 12% I could not get an offer doing legal work that paid more than 15 an hour. I retooled and went for a combo JD/MBA. It was extremely lucky that the CSO manager lived next door to a hiring manager at fortune 50 company. It was my experience that I brought with me to law school that got me the procurement job. Having said that, the JD/MBA got me the interview. Lucky= timing and Oppertunity, and I am blessed to be lucky. I made it, but can't help to feel sad for those who I know have not made it, and will not make it. Your message is sound, and to the extent it informs people of the opertunity costs of higher education, keep on keeping on.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Jeez why is it so hard for people to believe that in some jurisdictions the court officers may let lawyers they see on an every day basis go through the metal detector (even a lowly public defender intern)?

    After my first year of law school I volunteered in my county's criminal court (in a fairly large county which is a suburb of a major US city). First couple days, I emptied my pockets and walked through the metal detector. By the third day, as I started to empty my pockets the court officer stopped me and said "just go ahead."

    Obviously every court and jurisdiction is different, but just because you were "treated like a common criminal defendant" and had to always empty your pockets, doesn't mean that if someone else said he or she was allowed to go through they are automatically bullshitting.

    ReplyDelete
  55. This waiting in line at the courthouse raises another difference between Biglaw and shitlaw. You see, in Biglaw, attorneys don't mind waiting on the line because they are on the clock and get to charge their hourly rate to their clients. Biglaw attorneys don't care about waiting in line as it would be sweating the small stuff. Shitlaw attorneys on the other hand, sweat the whole waiting in line "ordeal" because they usually get paid a lowly flat fee. Whenever I go through the metal detector and the officer asks me to remove my belt buckle, Patek Philippe watch, Cartier cufflinks, etc., I just laugh it off inside as I am on the clock and the client is paying for my inconvenience.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Haha 10:10 has the right attitude...you "shitlawyers" could learn from him!

    ReplyDelete
  57. but really though...who leaves toilets looking in such a state? we live among savages.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I take 10:10 at his word. He seems to be a biglaw attorney. He is at least a member of the upper classes. It's obvious from his upper crust language. Maybe not born into that position, but a member nonetheless. He's also nice enough not to piss on all the shitlawyers out there. Good for him, if he's making big bucks. I mean it. Good for him. And he is not an a-hole about it. On the other hand...11:22, you are just another wage slave. Actually, you are an unpaid pissant. Shit, I think Mr. Biglaw has more humility than you, a fucking volunteer for the PD's office.

    And learn how to read. Biglaw has the right attitude because his clients are *paying for his inconvenience*. Shit, I'd exhibit the right attitude if I had that luxury too. Get this. If he had to wait in line for 20 minutes or an hour, he gets to charge his clients for that time. If the machine went down and they had to frisk everyone, he might not like that. For him, they would probably just have him empty his pockets and run a wand over his clothing. Big fucking deal. A shitlawyer needs to be in court. If he's a solo, he doesn't have another lawyer in the office to call the judge and let them know he is downstairs and will be at his hearing a little late. If the machines go down, and you are a shitlawyer late for court, the judge may get on your case for not getting there early enough. Because getting paid shit makes people want to arrive early! Maybe Biglaw lawyers are smarter. I'm not convinced of that. But they sure are treated better by judges and law clerks. Probably 'cause they represent money. People in America like that. That's what they respect. Hey, everyone wants to be rich.

    I have never seen a trial court judge rip a Biglaw associate or partner a new asshole in open court. I'm sure it's happened here and there. But it usually goes on in closed doors. In chambers. The infraction may be for deliberate delays, failure to produce, or writing a 25 page motion. On the other hand, I've seen dozens of family law, defense lawyers, and state lawyers get ripped apart in front of their colleagues. I have seen with my own eyes judges slam shitlawyers over the smallest thing. Oh, the client forgot to date his plea agreement. Or he didn't initial one box. Instead of recognizing it as a small error and asking the lawyer to have his client sign his name, I have seen judges talk down to these lawyers. As if they were the dumbest bastard on the planet. Over a small error that can be easuily fixed. Can ya see why people that work in shitlaw are so willing to re-tell their horror stories? Can you? I would place a law clerk above PD volunteer on the pecking order, btw.

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  59. 12:00- If you think the big law dude above wasn't pissing on shitlawyers, you need to learn to read also.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Oh God!!!!!!!!! The 'SETON HALL LAW' still won't go down! The janitor is yelling at it in spanish but nothing can destroy it!

    ReplyDelete
  61. It's a Shitlaw Symposium!

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  62. My good friend graduated from St. Mary's and currently works at Goldman Sachs in NYC. Although I'm not saying St. Mary's is top notch, Goldmn Sachs obviously values the quality of the law school.

    ReplyDelete
  63. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=108.18.1.142

    Mar 30 2011 9:45am 108.18.1.142 6 actions 29m 35s
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    Mar 24 2011 5:39pm 108.18.1.142 4 actions 10m 19s
    Mar 24 2011 10:14am 108.18.1.142 5 actions 23m 16s
    Mar 23 2011 9:57pm 108.18.1.142 2 actions 8m 54s
    Mar 23 2011 8:24pm 108.18.1.142 7 actions 26m 3s
    Mar 23 2011 7:36pm 108.18.1.142 10 actions 37m 53s
    Mar 23 2011 7:17pm 108.18.1.142 1 action 10s
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    Nice try, cockroach/psychotic lying bitch.

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/03/taking-ball-shrinkage-disorder-to.html#comments

    If anyone wants to see who this person really is, just head to this link. He is also a blatant racist – at least online. This pussy would not dare say such things in person. Thank your mother for providing you the safety of her basement, bitch.

    First, he claimed to be a DC Biglaw attorney - and a 2007 American University JD - making $120K per year. This doesn't quite add up, does it? Then, the piece of trash stated that he was a "law professor" at the University of the District of Columbia. (HE ADMITTED THAT HE LIED about being a DC Biglaw attorney and “law professor.”)

    In another entry, this cretin asserted that he was a DC tax lawyer pulling in $150K per year.

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/03/hold-your-breath-second-tier-hofstra.html

    In this entry, the mentally-unbalanced loser claimed to be a third year law student at Hosftra University, in New York. The moron then stated that he was “top 30%” – and that he had a Wall Street job lined up.

    Now, in this comment, he claims to know a St. Mary’s JD who is working at Goldman Sachs. Guess what, liar? Why would Goldman Sachs go out of its way to hire a law grad from San Antonio, Texas – when it could have its pick from Harvard, Yale, Penn, NYU, Columbia, Cornell, etc.?!?!

    Seeing that you have no track record of honesty, it appears that this is a false story, as well. By the way, if a St. Mary’s grad ended up in such a firm, you can bet your pathetic ass that the person has OUTSTANDING family, business and political connections – in the first place! Now go back to your fantasies, loser. I strongly suggest that you see a licensed psychiatrist, about your mental problems. They will be better able to diagnose your condition.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Nando,

    Everything I have said to you on here I would say directly to your face. Then, after you assaulted me, I would sue you for all you are worth (which probably isn't much)

    ReplyDelete
  65. JD/MBA is a good combo and opens up opportunities that otherwise you may not get. Having a JD can also help you to align your career into business such as a CFO or CEO of a company. Just because you have a JD does it mean that you have to practice law.

    ReplyDelete
  66. The JD sucks and is utterly useless for anything other than law practice.

    And, it barely prepares you for even that.

    ReplyDelete
  67. St. Mary' clearly is not the law school it used to be. I know people who went there in the early 1990"s who have had great careers and not just in Texas.

    ReplyDelete
  68. HAHAHAHAHAHA SUCKERS i went to st. mary's and graduated last year and I'm making 75K a year in house which is about to be a lot higher in a few years. You pussies work your asses off to go to T14 schools and the harsh reality is that people like me are just more likeable than you and smarter and get the jobs anyways. Also I got a scholarship BITCHES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Plus I GUARANTEE you I have had sex with better looking girls than any of you b4/during/after law school.

    ReplyDelete
  69. To the piece of trash who commented on September 28, 2012 at 1:08 pm,

    Learn some basic grammar and punctuation, borderline retard. By the way, YOU graduated from a fourth tier trash pit - if you earned a JD from St. Mary's University Sewer of Law. Based on your pathetic note above, I doubt that you have a high school diploma. You live in St. Louis, MO, and you are researching the ranking of St. Mary’s SOL.

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=12.179.62.205

    IP Information - 12.179.62.205

    Host name: 12.179.62.205
    Country: United States
    Country Code: US
    Region: MO
    City: Saint Louis
    Latitude: 38.6554
    Longitude: -90.4539

    From Analytics, mental midget:

    Visits: 1

    Unique ID: 3906984874
    IP address: 12.179.62.205
    Locale: Saint Louis, MO, USA/English
    Platform: Internet Explorer 9.0/Windows Vista/1024x768

    Sep 28 2012 1:02pm 12.179.62.205 3 actions 8m 43s google.com st. marys university school of law ranking

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+8

    Take a look at the latest edition of the law school rankings, from US “News” & World Report, dicknose. As you can see, this commode is still in fourth tier wasteland. If your goal is to earn $75K per year - as in house counsel - that is not much if you plan to live in California. Hell, guys who own small landscaping companies are pulling down $100K annually, in that state. How do you like that reality, bitch?!?!

    Congratulations on sleeping with your sister, cockroach. You must be very proud of your "accomplishment." By the way, quit molesting your five year old niece, and counting that as a notch on your belt. When the mental institution that you are residing in allows you more time to surf the internet, feel free to respond to this beatdown, moron.

    ReplyDelete
  70. My son had a great practice..ever hear of DWIDOG in San Antonio? He was one of the best DWI lawyers in the area.
    He passed away in October.
    He graduated St.Mary's and passed th bar the first time.
    I don' think he was the "worst for wear" for going there.

    ReplyDelete

 
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