Sunday, March 20, 2011

Taking Ball Shrinkage Disorder to Another Level: US News’s Bob Morse



"Currently, only the top 100 law schools are ranked. Even if U.S. News decides to rank third-tier schools, those that fall into the fourth tier still won’t be given a number."

On January 10, 2011, National Law Journal reported that US News was looking at assigning a numerical rating for third tier law schools.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202477605227&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

"It's something that we're looking into," Morse said. "We do have ranking scores for all law schools but, editorially, we didn't want to say, 'This is the 188th law school [representing last place].'"

"U.S. News now provides numerical rankings for the top 100 law schools, but combines the remaining schools into third and fourth tiers without distinguishing between the schools in each tier. Schools within each of those tiers are listed alphabetically. Morse said that the bottom 25% of law schools would continue to be ranked alphabetically."


What a beacon of integrity, huh?!?! I guess Pussy Robert Morse would prefer to see TTTT students take out $130K in student loans rather than offend a dump such as Cooley. (Did anyone see where the article states that USN&WR placed those schools outside the top 100 into the third and fourth tier?)

…Which Somehow Equals “Elimination” of the Third Tier?!:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/2011/03/14/how-us-news-calculated-the-2012-graduate-school-rankings

“In response to interest from both readers and institutions in knowing where more law schools sit, we have extended the list of numerically ranked institutions from the top 100 to the top three-quarters of the schools. The remaining schools are listed alphabetically as the second tier.”

Simply put, Pussy Boy no longer wants to refer to third tier law schools as third tier. Good for him. What a “brave decision” on his part, right?!?! However, the wrinkled vagina does not own the terms “third tier” or “fourth tier.” He has decided to appease the low-ranked trash pits - at the expense of prospective law students. Big surprise, huh?! The “man” is a tool. What would you expect from an industry cockroach such as Robert Morse?

Applying Some Common Sense:

USN&WR assigned and published a numeric figure for third tier law schools. Did these third tier schools suddenly become first tier - because US News designated them as such?!?! Apply some basic logic here. Why would William Mitchell Commode of Law be upset going from 98th to 135th best law school, if they are now in the first tier? They DROPPED 37 spots from last year, but magically ended up in a “higher tier”?!?!

Furthermore, are Creighton, Yale and Cornell really in the same tier? Ask any prospective law student what they think of this designation. The fact that Morse “declares” schools ranked 101-150 as first tier DOES NOT make them first tier. This is akin to a delusional man who declares that his 260 pound wife weighs 130 - when the scale still shows 260. Keep in mind that Morse - for years - assigned a numeric rating for the top 100 law schools, without designating those ranked 51-100 as second tier.

By this twisted "logic," if Morse were to publish the numerical rating for the top 188 schools, would they all be in the first tier?!?! Perhaps, those listed as “unranked” should lobby US News to provide such a rating for all toilets. Let’s ask the schools in the supposed "second tier" - previously labeled fourth tier by USN&WR - if they are happy with the fact that they "moved up" two tiers.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202486124351&US_News_law_school_rankings_are_out_with_revamped_tiers

“Suffolk University Law School, The University of South Dakota School of Law and the University of Toledo College of Law each dropped from the third tier to what would have been the fourth tier, but now is called the second tier.”

Shouldn’t these commodes be THRILLED that they actually dropped spots but (supposedly) ended up in a higher tier?!

How Others View US News:

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2011/03/an-open-letter.html

“When the new rankings come out this week, may I suggest that you not post the overall ranking. You all know the overall rank assigned to a school by U.S. News is meaningless, often perniciously so. You all know this. So don't report it. The fact that this garbage appears in what used to be a major 'news' magazine doesn't change the fact that it is garbage.” [Emphasis mine]

[I recognize that Leiter had his own ranking scheme. However, he did thoroughly bitch-slap Morse, in this piece.]

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2008/07/the-legacies-of.html

“U.S. News's Robert Morse: To the methodology czar, all you have to do is add one word -- "educational" -- to clarify that when you are asking law professors (and practitioners, for that matter) to assess the quality of each school's program on a scale of 1 to 5, that you are referring to the educational program. Please also remind us that you changed the call of the survey question; I think you used to ask about a school's "reputation," but no more. Now you actually want us to assess the quality of each school's "program." We could use your help in creating this race to the top on education that your ranking system makes possible.” [Emphasis mine]

In the final analysis, US News & World Report is a festering pile of garbage. In particular, Bob Morse’s law school rankings are total nonsense. This comes down to an exercise in politics. The top 14 schools largely remain unchanged from year to year; occasionally you see a top school drop or “improve” by a spot. The lower-tiered schools end up engaging in an education arms race - in the foolish attempt to increase their rating. It is not unusual to see a 6 way tie for 61st best law school in the USN&WR’s rankings. Apparently, this rag does not want to offend a school by placing it in 65th place. (As if 61st is inherently any better.)

After further consideration, you need to have a set of balls before you can suffer from male testicular atrophy. You don’t qualify, Bob Morse. Don’t shave your bush too closely next time. Also, stand tall when you purchase your next tube of Vagisil.

51 comments:

  1. I don't get all this Bob Morse hate among scambloggers. He's essentially the messenger right? I fail to see how's he "scamming" law students.

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  2. Brutal. I mean Morse is a total pussy. But come on. The guy is trying to sell magazines. He doesn't give a shit about educational quality. Is this news?

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  3. Hes not the messager, he's the determiner. These are his rankings, and every law student's future is determined by 1) where they went to school and b) where in their class they finished. USNWR is HUGELY influential. If you have a MA in Communication from any University that's even accredited you're on closer footing than if you went to Seton Hall vs. UChicago for Law...

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  4. I guess Morse is all about business and the politics that go to support that business, only thinking about the bottom line, and not concerned with lives that are ruined with 6 figure debt.

    But that's typical of big business in general: cold, uncaring, unsympathetic and artless.

    "The man that hath no music in himself.......
    Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils."

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  5. I think that at the end of the day the ABA is the one responsible for this situation. If the ABA would have the balls to regulate legal education, lawyers would be a hot commodity and no one would care as much about rankings. Employers would simply have to fill their payrolls with whatever they can get, period. But because the ABA and their loose policies have created an oversupply for lawyers, employers are now in the driver's seat and other qualities -such as school rankings- serve to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    Nando and other scambloggers: don't get distracted by USNWR. Instead, focus your attention and maintain the pressure where it really matters: the ABA, law schools, and the media.

    I feel that the tide is turning and that the law school bubble is finally bursting. Keep it up the good job!

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  6. Morse determines a lot more than he lets on. Plus the cocksucker has gotten rid of the third tier and labels the shitholes as second tier. This might affect many lemmings decisions. They might think that they will be okay going to a purported second tier school.

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  7. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  8. Agree. Attack on Mr. Morse was not warranted.

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  9. During an online Q&A with Bob Morse several months before the "law school scam" hit the mainstream, he banned students who asked questions about deceptive employment statistics.

    That is a fact.

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  10. @ 10:38 P.M.

    "Hi, Bob Morse!"

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  11. 10:38, don't hold back! Tell us what you really think.

    Nando, I wouldn't get overwrought about this change. It will hopefully lead to all schools being ranked.

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  12. @10:38, hi Kimber Russell.

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  13. Nando, this is a good post. USNWR needs to be on good terms with their sources, i.e. the law schools. They can't offend them by telling the truth about their grads.

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  14. To the borderline retard who posted at 10:38 pm,

    When you remove your mouth from Bob Morse's crotch, let me know. Do I have your attention now, cockroach? OK, now that you are up for some air, here is a list of suggestions for you: (1) thoroughly brush your teeth, gums and tongue; (2) grab some breath mints; (3) gain some self-esteem; and (4) quit defending pieces of trash who do not give one damn about debt-soaked students and graduates. Morse is ALL about keeping the status quo, Stupid.

    Also, learn how to make a cogent argument, i.e. screaming and crying like a bitch does not qualify as such. To wit:

    "Nando, you MOTHER FUCKER, how DARE you speak this way about a man you do not even know! Mr. Morse is a great man, and goes out of his way to help future law students make the most important decision of their lives. I HOPE YOU ROT IN HELL, YOU SICK SON OF A BITCH!"

    Morse does not care about these prospective students' outcomes, moron. He simply wants to keep the spigot running - so that the schools can continue to rake in more federally-backed student loans. Do you really need me to explain this to you?!?!

    "I have never been so angered by a blog in my entire life. Fuck you Nando, FUCK YOU!"

    I suppose licking the industry's crotch is a thankless, disgusting task. Well, you signed up for it, Bitch.

    By the way, I would call you a piece of trash to your face, 10:38. (It remains to be seen if you would have the balls to respond in similar fashion.) I would do the same to any industry apologist cockroach. For instance, I would call Kimber Russell a "two-headed bitch" right to her face - even with her husband standing right by her side. What would you do, pussy?

    By the way, your hero Robert Morse is nothing, in the final analysis. He stands for nothing - other than defending the sick, depraved $y$tem. I would LOVE to see this "man" face to face. If you have ANY doubt that I would refer to Morse as a pussy or cretin - to his reptilian face - then you truly are slow. I do not have a different online persona. This is the way I speak to and address tools. In fact, this may account for some of the blog’s popularity.

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  15. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=108.18.1.142

    How are things in the Washington, DC area, 10:38 pm, you smoldering pile of dung?!

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Mar 21 2011 8:37am 108.18.1.142 7 actions 12m 54s
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    Mar 9 2011 9:21pm 108.18.54.113 3 actions 10m 2s

    Look at this pathetic specimen. The piece of waste made 34 visits to this site, in roughly the last 12.5 days. Do you visit this site, before or after licking Morse's boots?

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  16. "With an average annual salary of $134,162, law professors are the highest-paid faculty for the 2010-2011 school year, according to the Chronicle of Higher Education."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/21/highest-earning-professor_n_836096.html#s251601&title=Legal_professions_and

    Who knew imbezzling federal taxes could be so lucrative?

    -Stephen

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  17. Bob Morse is a piece of shit. The guy defending him so forcefully is an even bigger piece of shit. This could be a relative. Or emotionally disturbed fan of Morse's.

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  18. "Who knew imbezzling federal taxes could be so lucrative?

    -Stephen

    March 21, 2011 10:08 AM "

    It is a lucrative line of work. Law professors, essentially, give their students NOTHING. Most of these buffoons could not represent a drunk driver (not really all that easy an affair). It would be "beneath" them. Rather, law professors blather on, year after remunerative year, about Carbolic Smoke Ball or Pennoyer and Neff, or some such useless bullshit drivel. All this, while the students they send forth to struggle as solos can't do a house closing or even check the HUD-1 form effectively.

    Whereas, medical school, dental school, whatever--these guys have to be BEGGED to take very valuable time away from their REAL practices to teach kids how to sew someone up or attend rounds; they don't generally choose to blather drivel for 30 years on salary at some toilet bowl, because practice is much better. Says a lot about the field of law, eh?

    Lemmings, beware.

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  19. "Morse determines a lot more than he lets on. Plus the cocksucker has gotten rid of the third tier and labels the shitholes as second tier. This might affect many lemmings decisions. They might think that they will be okay going to a purported second tier school."

    ----------------------------------------------

    ^^^^^^^ This. x1000 ^^^^^^^

    All designed to get their money, consequences (and we all know what those are for 99%) be damned.

    When you're early/mid-twenties, you are ripe to be plucked. No debt. Young. Eager to "prove" yourself, etc. The vultures will swoop in and pick your bones for years until you are left without time, without youth, and without much hope. Those non-dischargeable student loans never, ever go away.

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  20. To add: (I forgot above..)

    Now that the word is getting out about graduates not finding jobs, even from T-14 and above schools, what does the System do?

    Change the rankings!

    That's right. Just Tier 1 and Tier 2 now kiddies. So how much worse can that 158th school really be? It's 2nd Tier!

    Rubbish!

    Shill and a scam artist, along with many others.

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  21. @ 1:33 said:

    "The vultures will swoop in and pick your bones for years until you are left without time, without youth, and without much hope. Those non-dischargeable student loans never, ever go away."

    Amen and how true. A young kid has virgin credit, and is faced with so many pitfalls that,to the young and untrained eye, seem deceptively benign.

    That is why I think every 18 year old should have rigorous and careful financial counseling, preferably by a Parent or at least a senior family member.

    Because you sure ain't gonna get it in a magazine like USNWR, or the truth about investing 100K plus on a T3 or 4 (now a 2)

    And Wow! Re: 10:38. Must have been one helluva comment! Sorry I missed it.

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  22. Great comment at 10:08. It's bizarre that law professors don't actually practice law while teaching it. It's like they become professors so they don't have to participate in the field that they are teaching others to practice in. Can't they pick up some work at traffic court or something and take the students through the process of being a real lawyer?

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  23. When I went to the University of Connecticut School of Law, I was blessed to participate in the criminal defense clinic with two good trial attorneys Todd Fernow and Tim Everett. We would accept pro-bono cases, and handle them through trial if required. But these individuals were exceptions. Of all the UCONN law full time faculty, probably no more then six were appearing in court on a regular basis. If your law school professor is not handling advisarial proceedings, there is no evidence that he/she has "seen the elephant" and can impart the knowlege you only get "swimming with the sharks".

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  24. the united states is a big, giant, smelly pile of dog shitMarch 21, 2011 at 7:43 PM

    10:38 is a constant troll. I don't know how many times nando has exposed this guy as a fraud and a lying piece of shit. This asshole said he was a Biglaw lawyer and graduate of American U in DC. Then he said he was teaching law at UDC TTT. He backtracked after nando pointed out that this shitbag spends countless hours on this blog. He gets slammed and exposed. Then he comes back angrier at nando for telling the truth. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. Now the cocksucker is screaming "Fuck you nando!!!!!!!"

    Here is the point of my entry: law school is a scam but so is much of American business. The top 1% own more than 1/4 of the total wealth of this nation. The top 10% own the country outright. Sure they disagree on how to fuck the bottom 90% sometimes. But at the end of the day they do agree that they should fuck the bottom 90% with a gigantic red, white and blue dildo up the ass.

    Look at this nation's debt and disastrous and stupid foreign policies. "Let's go play world policeman and go further broke." Gee, that's fucking brilliant, ain't it? Why didn't the Romans and British Empire think of that??

    We can complain about higher ed and what a scam it is. Which is the truth. But it is just one aspect of how this country IS finished. It's broke. It has no moral authority. Guys like Morse are symptoms of the American disease. You will always have defenders who will keep sucking that corporate dick. We allow the rich and powerful to buy state legislatures and Congress. They cut taxes on these rich assholes and the country goes further down the drain. This is a simplification, but it's not far off the mark. You heard it here, folks. This country is a piece of fucking garbage. Good night now. (Praying to God or Allah and/or taking your vitamins ain't gonna do shit to reverse this thing. We are super f-u-c-k-e-d.)

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  25. I wonder if the makers Vagisil would be interested in having Bob Morse endorse its product. Cross promotional. A tool like Morse would be interested in making s few extra bucks.

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  26. HEEeeelp! Someone just took a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge SETON HALL LAW in the office toilet!

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  27. @11:03 -- I'm pretty sure the office toilets possess the ability to flush. Just press that little lever on the upper left front of the tank and everything will be fine. If not, that's why we have plungers. And remember to post a sign politely reminding your co-workers to flush. We cannot have constant Seton Hall Laws left festering in toilets the world over.

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  28. Nando,

    How can you ingenuously claim that law school is a "scam," yet at the same time complain of lawyer overproduction?

    After all, since law schools produced these lawyers, then it appears that law schools are not scamming, but producing what they promised - minted attorneys.

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  29. http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/03/best-paying-jobs-women-salary-forbes-woman-leadership-careers_slide_9.html

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  30. NANDO- this one is for you
    I have not turned 30 yet.
    I have a bar license - 3 time taker.
    I have zero student loans.
    The result? I still feel the same exact loss that other law school grads do. I haven't worked in the field since 2008, I had to work for free this year, got canned from that. I've gone through 5 interviews. The gap between experienced and non-experienced attorneys is truly frightening, it is not just a case of "i need to interview better." There is no fucking way you can convince a partner to hire you over someone experienced. It is NOT possible. Career services does everything except help you get a job. I can't get hired in my pre-law field. I've lost 3-4 years of potential income had i stayed at my old job, plus my life savings, which are completely gone.
    I fucking hate it when the ABA, the State Bar articles, and others try to spin a strawman saying students cannot expect $160K out the gates of some shit school. THe reality is, you can't expect ANY job, full-time lawyer job, of any kind, just off going to law school and passing the bar. $50-$65K jobs are also non-existent, JUST as non-existent as jobs that pay $160K. They don't have news articles about that yet b/c that would make law school deans and the ABA quake in their boots. Start chanting a mantra that you won't get ANY kidn of job after law school. None, zero zilch. These fucktards in power try to reframe the debate by saying most jobs pay $40-$65K. I can't even get such a job rite now.

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  31. March 22 @ 11:55

    Take the JD off your resume.

    You might then be able to get a job in sales.

    The classifieds are FULL of sales jobs.

    The people that hire you will figure you have a network of family and friends that you can sell to, and be sure to tell them that in your interview as well.

    After you use that network up and don't sell or "produce" you will probably be fired, but at least you will have not starved for a year or so in that sales job, and also you will probably get excellent Health Insurance benefits. And also you might find a real, non- Willie Loman job in the meantime.

    Sales jobs always come with excellent Healh Insurance plans.

    But if you go the sales route, just make sure you get a base pay, and one without a "Draw"

    Also, do not take any jobs where your pay is based on pure commission.

    Again watch out for the "Draw". I have seen some salesmen actually receive a zero paycheck after the Draw is finally taken out.

    And again--do not mention anything about Law School. You must lie and leave your JD off your resume.

    You have to eat and survive.

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  32. @9:51:

    "After all, since law schools produced these lawyers, then it appears that law schools are not scamming, but producing what they promised - minted attorneys."

    That isn't what law schools 'promise,' and you know it.

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  33. The NY Times article with Kimber's pic was good.
    So were the couple of WSJ articles, and the mention in Slate.

    But I still hope many more mainstream newspapers will pick up the story, as well as Ellen and Oprah.

    That's the only way the message will ever really get across in a lasting way.

    In the meantime--keep blogging.

    Never sit back and rest on the old Laurels, because the law school scam is far from busted.

    Far, far from it.

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  34. Nando,

    Please confirm if you have received the email regarding the TOILET gala.

    ReplyDelete
  35. @10 pm
    3/22

    I understand your position but if you got canned from an unpaid position you need to do some soul searching. Maybe there is something about you that employers are put off by. It isn't a indictment on you as a person. For example, I have a problem with foul language. I drop f-bombs like they are going out of style. I got fired from a job when I was in college for cursing. I never did it a again in the workplace. You may not do that particular thing but that is an example of something employers will immediately not like about you. lol.

    I suspect you have more experience than you think you do. Perhaps you should take another look at your resume. Do you list your unpaid internships? You don't have to say you were unpaid you know. That is one of those grey areas that you can get away with. Its kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. Besides, everyone knows that resumes are a basket of lies and half-truths. Its all puffing. =) Have another lawyer (a friend or spouse even) take a look at your resume and give you feedback. Go online and do some research. There are a lot of good places to get advice on legal CVs. Most importantly, make sure you list all your accomplishments and responsibilities. What kind of work you did. List your technical skills - are you proficient with lexis/westlaw/loislaw? MSoffice? (CPI) Patent and Trademark Systems or USPTO system? Whatever the job requires, you can list it and then learn it later.

    Finally, when you interview do you have answers to common questions memorized? Do you ask for the job when you finish? Do you couch your answers the right way so they see value-added in bringing you on to their team? How is your appearance? If you are a man is your hair and suit clean and pressed? Do you wear and appropriate tie? Do you speak well? If you are a woman are you dressed appropriately? Are you away of your body language? Most communication is unspoken so make sure you are not giving off the wrong signals (putting your hands in your pockets, crossing your legs (as a man), bad posture, frowning or rolling your eyes). All things that you should give some thought.

    Good luck and I hope you find something soon.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Re "After all, since law schools produced these lawyers, then it appears that law schools are not scamming, but producing what they promised - minted attorneys.

    March 22, 2011 9:51 PM":

    Non-elite law schools are a HORRIBLE FILTHY SCAM because they take FEDERALLY-BACKED student loan dollars and misallocate those resources into producing a product which there is an oversupply of.

    That is the essence of a classic swindle, subverting the allocation of a valued resource and diverting it where it needn't or shouldn't go. There is a true economic loss when economic power is wasted on a worthlss product, and therein lies the scam: the appearance that value is being produced, when it is not.

    'kay?

    ReplyDelete
  37. Chris said...
    http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/03/best-paying-jobs-women-salary-forbes-woman-leadership-careers_slide_9.html

    March 22, 2011 10:00 PM

    Harvard? Yale? Stanford, perhaps? Sure, I'll buy that.

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  38. Law is a shit-ass profession. Only morons and ignorant lemmings have a problem understanding this truth.

    ReplyDelete
  39. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1917590,00.html

    “School may still be out for the summer, but all eyes are on college this week: the 2010 U.S. News & World Report college rankings hit stands today, with Harvard and Princeton tying for first place among national universities and Williams ranking first among liberal-arts colleges. TIME spoke to Robert Morse, director of data research at U.S. News and a two-decade veteran of the controversial rankings, about how the list is put together and how it could be better, plus a look at this year's rising stars.”

    Does anyone still think that this piece of trash is not influencing people's decision to attend colleges, universities and law schools?

    http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2011/03/us-news-which-has-aided-abetted-and-encouraged-the-dissemination-of-fraudulent-and-misleading-employ.html

    Check out this entry from Brian Leiter:

    US "News," which has aided, abetted, and encouraged the dissemination of
    fraudulent and misleading employment data...

    “...would like that to stop, but isn't going to do anything about it, except tweak the ranking formula. Mr. Morse, here is what you can do: don't use self-reported data at all. Follow the lead of Maclean's in Canada, who took my suggestion, and uses employment data in the public arena. This would require more work, but it would also report real information, not fiction.” [Emphasis mine]

    Brian Leiter backhands Vagisil Bob Morse across the bridge of his large beak once again! The author flat out states that the pig definitely has aided, abetted and encouraged this sick, fraudulent behavior.

    http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/leiter

    This is from Professor Brian Leiter, of the University of Chicago Law School. He is not a scam-blogger or pissed off recent JD. He simply has the nut-sack to call Robert Morse out. Too bad more academics do not possess this candor and brutal honesty.

    http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2010/03/an-open-lette-1.html#tp

    “Because of keen student interest in the rankings, the US News rankings have become, as I am sure you know, the tail that wags the law school dog. Because moving up in the US News rankings requires no explanation, while falling invariably does, schools have grown increasingly sophisticated--or sometimes just duplicitous--in how they report data to the ABA and to US News in order to secure favorable results, results that are increasingly unhinged from any actual educational or professional accomplishments.”

    Later on, Leiter goes on to state:

    “You should also eliminate the self-reported employment data, which is, as you well know, a work of fiction: it bears some resemblance to reality, but it is mainly a work of the imagination.”

    ReplyDelete
  40. critick
    Thank you so much for your feedback, and I would like to respond to every thing you say, and break down my situation for you.

    No, I do not list I was unpaid at positions. I was canned b/c the company knew they would not have a budget for a paying attorney later on, so they didn't feel it was fair to me. I was willing to stay on board for the experience, but mutually, it was not a great arrangement. They did not have a problem w/my work and are providing me with letters of recommendation and solid references.

    I have had a total of 4 interviews last year, and I bounced from temp job to temp job to make ends meet.

    One interview was with a patent attorney, who grilled me to shit about what exact legal writing could I do for him right then and there. The guy explained he had a high-turnover rate , because no one could cut it(as most attorneys do), and needed the best and brightest of the bunch. I interviewed against 40-50 other candidates. I didn't get hired. His exact words were I seem very sincere and very trainable, and my resume got me an interview, but he'd had his hands burnt by so many just like me who promised the same thing.

    I then interviewed again for a company that specialized in satisfying judgments. They made me an offer and pulled it the next day, for reasons they couldn't explain.

    By this time the bar results had come back and I had to retake it in July 2010. Shortly thereafter, I was called in for an interview by an attorney I had not applied with. I tried to ensure w/his secretary that he knew that I was not a licensed attorney yet, she said he knew. When i walked into the interview, the attorney put his head in his hands and said he had a real, real problem w/the fact that I had just taken the bar, and was waiting on my results, because I could just jump ship the second I passed, and the world would open up for me. By this time, getting shitted on, I was ready, and provided key examples of where I added value to previous positions, and even though he tried to cut the interview short, I did make the case for why I was a great asset, and I was humble, hungry, and willing to pay my dues and get some real good experience. I also told him i was fine working as a law clerk for a good amount of time, to get some real experience. He never called back.

    ReplyDelete
  41. To CRITICK - PART 2
    Later I got the results and had passed. During my swearing ceremony the judge who signed me in asked me "do u have a job yet? it is sooo tough for you guys right now"

    This is actually a statement I have heard repeated several times by attorneys when I go to networking events. They don't offer any help or advice - they just say how bad I've got it, how bad new attorneys got it - networking is a misnomer term now.

    I went through one interview right after getting sworn in, but the company did not check out on my background search, and I never called them back. I later discovered some graduates from my school had taken on firms that had similar questionable practices and lost their license in the process.

    This year I went through 5 interviews, the first was the worst one - again a patent attorney who basically picked apart every good example I threw out for how i added value, chastised me for jobs on my resume that were not in the legal field, demanded to know how I couldnt get hired anywhere in 2010, and said being a year out of law school, with zero experience, I have put myself in an extremely difficult situation, and I had to acknowledge that and take responsibility. I was interviewing for a law clerk position, not attorney, which I thought woudl show I'm hungry and willing to learn. This guy's exact advice to me was I better jump on any chance I get to get in law firm - which is exactly what I was doing in the interview, and also last year. So not really advice in anyway, or nothing I wasn't already doing.

    I later interviewed with a firm, and the public defender's office, and tried real hard to make the case for why i was a good candidate, and not falter. This time for the firm I had a very detailed answer to try to make up for my lack of litigation experience, and examples of how I added value.

    The firm went w/someone who more closely matched their requirements, and I scored an '89' o the PD interview. I needed 95 or higher to be put in the hiring pool.

    I also had a telephone interview with a firm that I felt i really hit it off with, who said they would get back to me to let me know one way or another if the firm was calling me in for a real interview. They didnt follow up, and filled the position 2 weeks later.

    Three part-time interview positions I had have dicked me around for the last month, b/c they do not really have a budget for an attorney, even though they called me in for an interview. I call each of them once a week to follow up, but nothing as panned out.

    I applied for a district attorney position in one county, that changed it to a volunteer position due to budget constraints - i got an email 3 months later saying the volunteer position had been filled - sorry for not calling me in for an interview - and the interviewing pool was extremely qualified and competitive.

    ReplyDelete
  42. TO CRITICK - PART 3

    Answers to your questions, as honest as possible:
    Finally, when you interview do you have answers to common questions memorized? Yes, in the beginning, I did not, but I've gotten much better at this in the process.

    Do you ask for the job when you finish? No. I don't demand anything. Never felt like I'm in a position to demand anything.

    Do you couch your answers the right way so they see value-added in bringing you on to their team? Yes, I give clear examples of how I have added value in my past positions. You learn to do that after getting beat down in an interview. I did not have a problem getting a job in law up until 2009 hit. In fact, in 2008 I beat out law review students and others to get a law clerk position at a pretty good firm.

    How is your appearance? If you are a man is your hair and suit clean and pressed? Do you wear and appropriate tie? Do you speak well? If you are a woman are you dressed appropriately? Are you away of your body language? Most communication is unspoken so make sure you are not giving off the wrong signals (putting your hands in your pockets, crossing your legs (as a man), bad posture, frowning or rolling your eyes). All things that you should give some thought.

    I am very, very picky about my appearance and hygiene, and I am always well-groomed, clean shaven, and my suit is always clean. I don't swear in interviews. I also try to confident body language, smile a bit, and I always send thank-you notes. I have never raised my voice or gotten visibly dismayed when attorneys start just talking mad shit to me during an interview. Most of the stuff you suggest is a given in any interview, that's like a pre-pre-requisite to being taken seriously as a human being, I wouldn't even really call it advice, but thank you for mentioning it.

    Honestly, how I feel right now is, I give 110% every single time. . .but I'm up against 1000003432432 others also giving 110%, and I got outsiders like family and friends who talk it up like I have to try harder, try harder, and harder, they think I'm only trying 50%, until I burn out.

    You can totally dispute me if you want and say there's something I'm not mentioning to you, but the reality is, you compete with this many people on this level, you're gonna try your best every single time as a given, and you will fail alot anyway. I can't convey to you how demoralizing that is to a person.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Answers to your questions, as honest as possible:
    Finally, when you interview do you have answers to common questions memorized? Yes, in the beginning, I did not, but I've gotten much better at this in the process.

    Do you ask for the job when you finish? No. I don't demand anything. Never felt like I'm in a position to demand anything.

    Do you couch your answers the right way so they see value-added in bringing you on to their team? Yes, I give clear examples of how I have added value in my past positions. You learn to do that after getting beat down in an interview. I did not have a problem getting a job in law up until 2009 hit. In fact, in 2008 I beat out law review students and others to get a law clerk position at a pretty good firm.

    How is your appearance? If you are a man is your hair and suit clean and pressed? Do you wear and appropriate tie? Do you speak well? If you are a woman are you dressed appropriately? Are you away of your body language? Most communication is unspoken so make sure you are not giving off the wrong signals (putting your hands in your pockets, crossing your legs (as a man), bad posture, frowning or rolling your eyes). All things that you should give some thought.

    I am very, very picky about my appearance and hygiene, and I am always well-groomed, clean shaven, and my suit is always clean. I don't swear in interviews. I also try to confident body language, smile a bit, and I always send thank-you notes. I have never raised my voice or gotten visibly dismayed when attorneys start just talking mad shit to me during an interview. Most of the stuff you suggest is a given in any interview, that's like a pre-pre-requisite to being taken seriously as a human being, I wouldn't even really call it advice, but thank you for mentioning it.

    Honestly, how I feel right now is, I give 110% every single time. . .but I'm up against 1000003432432 others also giving 110%, and I got outsiders like family and friends who talk it up like I have to try harder, try harder, and harder, they think I'm only trying 50%, until I burn out.

    You can totally dispute me if you want and say there's something I'm not mentioning to you, but the reality is, you compete with this many people on this level, you're gonna try your best every single time as a given, and you will fail alot anyway. I can't convey to you how demoralizing that is to a person.

    ReplyDelete
  44. To CRITICK - PART 2 - I posted this part as part TWO and somehow it got deleted out. Reading this then part 3 will make sense.

    In November, 2010, I got the results and had passed. During my swearing ceremony the judge who signed me in asked me "do u have a job yet? it is sooo tough for you guys right now"

    This is actually a statement I have heard repeated several times by attorneys when I go to networking events. They don't offer any help or advice - they just say how bad I've got it, how bad new attorneys got it - networking is a misnomer term now. For the record, I never ask attorneys at networking events for jobs - I make alot of small talk at first, and then eventually ask how they got to be where they are today. If i really click, then I leave a business card. This is how I was told to approach networking years ago in my first year of law school by an entertainment lawyer who was giving a presentation.

    I went through one interview right after getting sworn in, but the company did not check out on my background search, and I never called them back. I later discovered some graduates from my school had taken on firms that had similar questionable practices and lost their license in the process.

    This year I went through 5 interviews, the first was the worst one - again a patent attorney who basically picked apart every good example I threw out for how i added value, chastised me for jobs on my resume that were not in the legal field, demanded to know how I couldnt get hired anywhere in 2010, and said being a year out of law school, with zero experience, I have put myself in an extremely difficult situation, and I had to acknowledge that and take responsibility. I was interviewing for a law clerk position, not attorney, which I thought woudl show I'm hungry and willing to learn. This guy's exact advice to me was I better jump on any chance I get to get in law firm - which is exactly what I was doing in the interview, and also last year. So not really advice in anyway, or nothing I wasn't already doing.

    I later interviewed with a firm, and the public defender's office, and tried real hard to make the case for why i was a good candidate, and not falter. This time for the firm I had a very detailed answer to try to make up for my lack of litigation experience, and examples of how I added value.

    The firm went w/someone who more closely matched their requirements, and I scored an '89' o the PD interview. I needed 95 or higher to be put in the hiring pool.

    I also had a telephone interview with a firm that I felt i really hit it off with, who said they would get back to me to let me know one way or another if the firm was calling me in for a real interview. They didnt follow up, and filled the position 2 weeks later.

    Three part-time interview positions I had have dicked me around for the last month, b/c they do not really have a budget for an attorney, even though they called me in for an interview. I call each of them once a week to follow up, but nothing as panned out.

    I applied for a district attorney position in one county, that changed it to a volunteer position due to budget constraints - i got an email 3 months later saying the volunteer position had been filled - sorry for not calling me in for an interview - and the interviewing pool was extremely qualified and competitive.

    ReplyDelete
  45. I just read the Forbes' article about the inflated law school median starting salaries for grads. I remember reading an article a few years ago about how Seton Hall Law was publishing that grads were making $120K a year. I also recall saying that number was a boldface lie. Well, Forbes confirms it. Starting median salary is $64.5K if you went to that cesspool. So is Forbes implying that the Valvoline Dean lied? You betcha ya. Prima facie case for fraud. Let the lawsuits begin.

    ReplyDelete
  46. To the piece of waste who posted on March 23, 2011 at 7:47 pm and 8:02 pm:

    Racist comments will be deleted, cockroach. I anticipate that you will have a nervous breakdown, over having your posts removed. Learn how to make an "argument" with some facts - and without relying on racial comments, son.

    ReplyDelete
  47. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=108.18.1.142

    This is the whiny bitch responsible for the racist comments referred to above. This person is a notorious liar. He has been caught in numerous lies on this blog.

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Mar 23 2011 9:57pm 108.18.1.142 2 actions 8m 54s
    Mar 23 2011 8:24pm 108.18.1.142 7 actions 26m 3s
    Mar 23 2011 7:36pm 108.18.1.142 10 actions 37m 53s
    Mar 23 2011 7:17pm 108.18.1.142 1 action 10s
    Mar 23 2011 6:13pm 108.18.1.142 1 action 10s
    Mar 23 2011 2:45pm 108.18.1.142 1 action 10s
    Mar 23 2011 1:32pm 108.18.1.142 1 action 10s
    Mar 23 2011 10:59am 108.18.1.142 3 actions 8m 51s
    Mar 23 2011 8:50am 108.18.1.142 1 action 10s

    First, he claimed to be a DC Biglaw attorney - and a 2007 American University JD - making $120K per year. This doesn't quite add up, does it? Then, the piece of trash stated that he was a "law professor" at the University of the District of Columbia. (HE ADMITTED THAT HE LIED about being a DC Biglaw attorney.)

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/02/fourth-tier-pile-of-industrial-waste.html

    "Anonymous said...

    Nando you really need to get a life, or atleast get laid or something. You are probably a virgin living in your mother's basement. The fact that you have the time to look up my ip address shows me what a pathetic loser you are. Don't hate on the success of others just because you are a failure. I don't have any more time to waste arguing with you. I graduated from American University in 2007, and work for a firm in D.C. making over 150 k a year. Get a life!

    February 20, 2011 1:54 PM"

    [In another thread, this pussy claimed to be making $120K as a DC Biglaw attorney.] In the same thread, ass-hat makes up an even bigger story:

    "Anonymous said...

    Alright guys, I lied and I am sorry. I am currently a professor at the University of D.C school of law, and I am deeply angered by this entire blog which is filled with lies and false information. How dare you disrespect legitimate law schools like these? You have no right to spread such lies about reputable institutions. I am going to request that you either end this blog now, or change it to another topic.

    Failure to do so, and I will notify my superiors, and a course of legal action could be taken against this drivel.

    Regards

    February 21, 2011 2:33 PM"

    Yes, you are a lying pig and you are very sorry, bitch. In a later entry, the cockroach said that he was a DC tax lawyer.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Oh God! Some sick animal just defecated a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuge "SETON HALL LAW" in the office toilet!

    ReplyDelete
  49. Imagine that. The troll from Washington DC is not only a liar but a racist piece of shit.

    He has been exposed as a liar. So now the cocksucker lashes out shouting racial epithets from the basement of his mom's house. You are a true pussy, hiding behind the internet. Do the world a favor and walk up to a random black man acting the way you do here. See what happens then.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Yesterday, as I was working, I had the radio on,(a classic Rock station) and several times during the day I heard a commercial for a Hospital in the region.

    The commercial featured a Children's Dept. or division within that Hospital, and spoke about the diagnosis and treatment of Kidney disease and research, and being at the forefront.

    Anyway, the commercial cited USNWR as a source for the Hospital's excellent top ranking for such a specialty in the field. (If not #1)

    And again, in the Commercial it was according to USNWR.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I change stations during the day, but I'm pretty sure it was this classic Rock station I refer to, called WCBS. They play a lot of oldies. Rock, Motown,Funk. Senior Citizen type stuff.

    Yesterday I even heard "Thank You For Letting Me Be Mice-Elf again." by Sly and the Family Stone.

    (As a rhetorical aside) I was bragging about how I actually remember seeing SFS play the song in concert on TV as a kid in the early 70's, and I ran around with my siblings for a long time after singing: "Momas so Happy!" over and over.

    It could have been this version, but I'm not sure:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTLfHo9QAnQ&feature=related

    ReplyDelete

 
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