Friday, April 15, 2011

Haul Out the Waste: Announcing the Second Tier Trash Can Seton Hall University School of Law Annual Award Dinner Dance

[I previously covered this foul toilet back on April 8, 2010. However, I received an email from a graduate of this decrepit, morally bankrupt and rotten toilet a couple of weeks ago. In that correspondence, “Mr. Mutt” included a PDF file of the invitation pictured above. Plus, this particular toilet is worth flushing twice.]

Tuition: As you can see, a full-time law student at this Catholic commode will be charged the un-godly sum of $45,048 in tuition and fees - for the 2010-2011 school year. Part-time students will only be sodomized to the tune of $33,981 for the same academic year. That is a great relief, huh?!

Total Cost of Attendance: Under the worst-case scenario, i.e. a full-time student living independently, the total estimated COA - for 2010-2011 - will be $67,800. By the way, you can be certain that this toilet is only calculating living expenses on the nine-month calendar. Using a twelve month estimate would give us a more accurate total COA of $74,100 for the current school year. What a nice Christian institution.

Ranking: According to the emergency reserve of toilet paper known as US News & World Report, SHU Law is the 61st greatest, most outstanding, exhilarating and fantastic law school in the United States. It shares this “prestigious honor” with five other stench pits.

Self-Reported Employment and Starting Salary Statistics: According to the sewage pit, “The employment rate for the Class of 2010 within nine months of graduation was 86.71% with 98.75% of the graduates reporting employment information. We are proud of our track record of ensuring that our graduates have obtained gainful, meaningful employment. 97.08% of the Class of 2010 graduates known to be employed reported employer type and 51.82% reported salary.”

For $ome rea$on, the commode lists the median salary of those in private practice as $125,000. Sure it was - and actress Jennifer Beals climbed on top of me, spent the night, and just made waffles. Apparently, the career services cockroaches do not include those SHU lawyers working on low-wage doc review assignments, in reaching this figure.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US News lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the SHU JD Class of 2010 who incurred law school debt - as $112,772. Fully 82 percent of this poor, unfortunate graduating class took on such debt. What a great deal for TTT job prospects, right?!?!

Faculty and Administrator Pay: Let’s head to page 18 of $eTTon Hall Univer$iTTy’s 2009 IRS Form 990, to see how well the pigs are making out. You can see that dean Patrick Hobbs made $339,866 in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2008.

Hobbs is not the only "educator" getting fat on the federal teat. Here are the TOTAL COMPENSATION figures for the following “law professors”: the bulbous-headed Stephen Lubben, $311,110; Erik Lillquist, $274,522; Kathleen “Pig Face” Boozang, $272,502; and John Cornwell, $270,345.

Annual Awards Dance Dinner: As “Mr. Mutt” wrote, in his email -

“The event takes place in swanky Short Hills, NJ. But doesn't 'Valvoline' Dean Pat Hobbs keep telling potential students how Newark NJ is undergoing a 'Renaissance'? Yet this oily music man holds his alumni gala in upscale Short Hills. I guess the pretty people who donate $25,000 to sponsor this snob fest may not want to play the 'car jacking' lottery if the event was to take place near the law school's Newark campus. (It is true, car jackings have reportedly been taking place at a rate of 12 per night in Newark). Notice how recent law graduates (class of 2006-2010) get a great 'discount' rate of $150 per person to attend this sewer party! I wonder why this discount is necessary as the schools employment statistics tout 94 plus percent employment and six figure salaries galore!”

One can reserve an individual seat for $250, or a table of 12 for a mere $3,000. However, the cost per seat is only $150 per person for the classes of 2006-2010. Members of the JD classes of 2000-2005 and attorneys practicing in public interest will only be charged $200 per seat.

If anyone is interested in sponsorship opportunities, here is the info: Presenting Sponsor, $25,000; Diamond Level, $20,000; Platinum Level, $15,000; Gold Level, $10,000; Silver Level, $5,000; Bronze Level, $2,500; and Copper Level, $1,000. Presenting Sponsors purchase a front inside cover location, back cover location, or back inside cover location. A full color, full page event program advertisement is also included, as well as two complimentary. Whereas the Copper Level affords you a listing in the TT event program. If anyone wants a digital copy of this invitation, email me at

Conclusion: Seton Hall University Sewer of Law is a festering stink pit. It charges its students in excess of $45K per year in tuition and fees, fills them with “legal doctrine” and dumps them into the FLOODED New Jersey/New York lawyer job market. Then it has the nerve to ask these debt-soaked JDs to donate to this garbage event. Does anyone think that this fundraiser will help keep tuition affordable at this dump?!?!


  1. Excellent article exposing this pathetic morally bankrupt cesspool! Great job Nando!

  2. This article should be on the front page of the NJ Law Journal. Please note that this celebration of student loan backed decadence and brown-nosing (networking) apparently starts with Mass, like this is a Jesus sanctioned/approved event.

    $hamele$$ $HU TToileteers!

  3. Interesting how almost all the faculty you profile above went to second-rate first tier schools, but then went on to get an LLM at Harvard or Yale. Well, at least with those outrageous salaries gained for teaching two courses a semester, they should have no problems paying their student loans back. Unlike their students.


  4. One can reserve an individual seat for $250, or a table of 12 for a mere $3,000. However, the cost per seat is only $150 per person for the classes of 2006-2010. Members of the JD classes of 2000-2005 and attorneys practicing in public interest will only be charged $200 per seat.

    Hahahaha! Im curious to see how many alums from the classes of 08 to the present will be showing up to this event.

  5. Scott Bullock needs to go to this event and blog about it! Scott Bullock, come back! We need ya!

  6. Here is the lowdown on this school. Outside of NJ, Seton Hall Law gets no respect. Years ago, perhaps you could land steady doc review gigs in NYC if you were an above median student coming from this cesspool. That is not the case anymore. Like with every toilet law school, you will find some anecdotal success stories scattered around (e.g., recent alum who clerked for Alito, an alum who sits on the Federal District Court, boatloads of polticial judgeship appointments and even Gov. Christie is an alum). For the hundreds of Seton Hall law grads that are released to the bar every year, a handfull will be successful. The others will struggle. $125K average starting salary? That is complete bullshit and this stat was debunked recently in a Forbes article.

    I can't imagine why anyone would spend close to $70K a year (tuition, books and COA)to attend this subpar school. This school also represents how flawed the USNWR rankings are. For example, in the 1990s, Seton Hall was ranked in the 100s. It was and still is a school where wealthy NJ families send their offspring to who could not get into a better law school (didn't one the NJ Housewife's mentally challenged kids go here?). It is a place where NJ debutantes are sent to find a husband. Two decades later and this school is ranked 61? 61 is not a number to brag about. But I can't believe a school such as Seton Hall rose 50 spots in two decades. This is how I know the USNWR is a gamed rankings system.

    This is the typical legal career of a Seton Hall law grad: graduate, pass NJ bar, do a one year "traffic court" clerkship, then go work for your daddy's or uncle's shitlaw practice in Hackensack or Trenton, NJ. Good luck paying those burgeoning student loans on a shitlaw salary. But I am sure in the final analysis, Patrick Hobbs is appreciative of your patronage.

  7. "It is true, car jackings have reportedly been taking place at a rate of 12 per night in Newark."

    Thankfully, law students and recent graduates are so darned broke they either don't have to worry about carjackings or it would be a blessing of sorts. I'm surprised the Valvoline Dean doesn't just admit that. "Carjackings? What do you care, you're a law student!" And on the flip side, it's fertile grounds for the bottom half of the class to, well, carjack. They should hold a clinic at the local chop shop.

    "Sure it was - and actress Jennifer Beals climbed on top of me, spent the night, and just made waffles."

    I was going to write that you can do better than Jennifer Beals but if she can make a mean waffle, all bets are off. Mediocre sex + awesome breakfast > Great sex + no breakfast.

  8. I know this is just undergrad tuition, but GWU is the most expensive school in the US. It's not even the best school (or even close) in DC!

  9. I don't know about Jennifer Beals. I mean there is something about her. Animal magnetism I suppose. ANyway, Seton Hall Law School is a shit pile of epic proportions. I agree with the author's overall take. There is one area where I need to make a correction: you could flush this piece of shit down the toilet 20 times and a little nugget of black shit will just float to the top. Staring you down. Basically daring you to flush again. To no avail. If anyone is even thinking of going to school here, take it from a 2002 graduate of this fucking cess pool: Do not go here. I don't care if the school promises you the world. You'll end up in shitlaw chasing down clients for money owed. You'll cry in your sleep if you think of your $200K nightmare.

  10. I suspect, without knowing, that Nando was thinking of Jessica Biel rather than Jennifer Beals.

  11. Kathleen "Pig Face" Boozang. Click for pic. LOL

  12. "Presenting Sponsor"? Why are the big donors called "Presenting Sponsors" rather than something like "Presidential" or "Golden Circle"? Isn't "presenting" where a baboon bends over and displays her swollen rump as a sign of submissiveness and sexual availability? I hope unto God that that seton meant that deliberately. Anyone who would flush 25k down this toilet has the dignity of a baboon in heat and deserves a crypto-insult from the undeserving object of his or her philanthropy.

  13. Glad to see Nando is back delivering some more well deserved scorn on this turd. TTR should feature a Seton Hall post every six weeks or so. As noted, I love how the rouges gallery of professors with mediocre JDs needs to justify their academic credentials by getting a bogus, no takes it seriously LLM degree from a better school.

  14. Excellent post.

    We all know law school and higher education are bubbles ready to pop. The genie is out of the bottle and this insanity cannot continue much longer. The entire higher education system will collapse, and federal loans are merely delaying the inevitable.

  15. Actually, as a related thought, it's weird how since the 90s the US has been experiencing bubble after bubble: stocks, housing, higher ed.

    I think it's because wages have been stagnant. Globalization has killed the middle class and people chase, with blind euphoria, what they believe is the best way out of these doldrums.

    This higher ed bubble is special, though, because the debts and obligations cannot be discharged unlike in the previous bubbles. When people wake up (and I think they are staring to wake up), there is going to be a lot of anger...

  16. Who bes doin' da caterin' fo' dis thing, muthafucka? Shitz, I'da done dished up a buncha mashed taters, gravy, sweet corn, mah heavenly biscuits 'n mah nine erbs n' spices 'n shit. Whatcha thinks 'bout that?

    Got damn. I'da damn served up grilleds chickins, 'riginal recipe chickins 'n mah crispy chickin. Sumbitch. I coulda catered the whole fuckin' thing fer than two thousand dollars. Mah ass woulda had tables at $100, corporate sponsorships at $500, shitlaw attorneys paying $10 at da door. We'd a done dis mother-fucker right. Jus' like wes do chickins right. (Rememba dat ol' jingle? Was a classic. Whoever done changed it up oughtta have his nuts removed by a rabid chipmunk.)

    If The Colonel had been runnin' dis here operation, we woulda had some down home style partying’, some southern hospitality n sum good eatin'. I may've lost mah virginity in the Boy Scouts, but I knows a thing or two 'bout a thing er two. We'da had some Hank Williams and Charlie Pride playin' in da background. Maybes throws in some Tammy Wynette. 'nstead dis Seton Haul reception's gonna be more stale than a bad batcha biscuits. Cousin Irene told me her vagina tasted like a warm sweet roll right outta da oven. Turned out to be drier than an old lady's shoe. Fools me twice, shame on meh. Fool mes three times, I'm gonna go git mah 30 odd six and blow yer ass to smithereens.

    Wouldn't itta been a blast if The Colonel had catered this them there here dinner dance shindig? Didn’t even mention I’d a done served up my mouth waterin’ chocolate cake fer dessert. Oh well. Dis be Seton Haul’s loss. Sees if I's gives a shit if dis thing is successful er not.

  17. Seton Haul is not a school that is loyal or accountable. Take the case of Michael Camarrano. Camarrano was an '02 grad who went on to become the Mayor of Hoboken. Seton Haul was proud of this alum, placing him on its wikipedia page alongside notable alumni. A month into his administration, Camarrano gets indicted for taking bribes and kickbacks. Rather than defend their own son, Seton Haul casts Camarrano like a diseased pariah, removing his name from the distinguished roll of alumni. What a way to own up to your own graduates Hobbs. I give Hobbs credit because he has successfully brainwashed his lemmings into believing a Seton Haul JD will pay off. On numerous times I have heard these naive students talk on the PATH train about how they are going to become associates at Sullivan & Cromwell and fast track to the partnership ranks. It is quite comical but at the same time sad because these kids are getting taken for a ride that they will spend their lifetimes paying for.

    As for human character I will say this. Many years ago, I knew former Seton Haul law dean Ron Riccio. Now that was a man of intergrity. It's ashame his successor has been compared to a slick snake oils salesman. However, when you have the gall to lie and tell your lemmings that a Seton Haul JD will land you a $125K gig per year upon graduation, my only hope is that God shows no mercy on the dean and the law school administrators on judgment day.

  18. It's rather poetic that Seton Hall University shares it's acronym with a place many prisons refer to as solitary or Special Housing Unit--"SHU." I'm having trouble deciding which metaphor I like better: 1) you have to be a complete fuckup with serious mental problems to wind up in either SHU; 2) when u leave either SHU you will have absolutely no job prospects in the real world; or 3) the non-dischargeable debt an SHU law grad will take on will leave u with about as much freedom as being stuck in a prison SHU.

  19. rat shit >seton hall lawApril 15, 2011 at 5:36 PM

    Great entry. I agree with 5:25. You should do a SeTTon Hall entry every 6 weeks or so. It is such a pile of rancid fecal matter.

    Don't forget that Bristol Myers had to endow an ethics chair at SHU Law.

    Read this article, people. This will give you an idea how this shithole operates. Christopher Fatshit Christie is now NJ governor. He's a Haul grad. At the time he was US Attorney for this state. The gift was the result of a DPA in a federal case. The gift just happened to help out his alma maTTer. B-T-dubs, this article was written by a law professor.

  20. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  21. Oh snap Nando got called out, it's on now! Brb, I'm gonna get my popcorn ready.

  22. @7:06 - Hey, my wife is a Cuban refugee. I'd love to move to Cuba, if I fucking could ASSHOLE! It's got a hell of a lot more going for it than the U.S at this point. Medical care is excellent - and free. Beaches. Check. Good weather. Check. I'm there when it opens up. Now, I'm going to sit back and wait for Nando to tear you a new asshole - ya asshole!

  23. then go to cuba; dipshit. Let me know how that works out for you. If Cuba is so great, why do so many Cubans immigrate to the US? Why don't you ask your Cuban wife why she came here in the first place?

  24. There is plenty of entitlement in the USA. Corporations are entitled to outsource our jobs, to pollute our environment, to buy our elections, to receive sweetheart no-bid government contracts under the cover of the pentagon system, to inflate financial bubbles, to receive public bailouts when the bubbles burst, and to impose austerity on the rest of us to pay for it.

    Fox News has indoctrinated the cretins to think that "entitlement" means some firefighter receiving a pension.

  25. @7:06
    Learn to read...

    "My goal is to educate prospective law students about the perils of obtaining a legal education. There are many pitfalls - the debt load, the oversupply of lawyers, the fact that there are not enough legal jobs to satisfy nearly 45,000 annual law graduates, and the reality that the majority of law school graduates will end up with low-paying jobs upon completion of their "legal studies.""

    That does not sound like a sense of entitlement to me.

    "if you hate the US so much, then leave."

    What fucked up logic is that? If we follow your logic, then every time one sees something seriously amiss, the next step is just to move somewhere else? Then civil rights movement would have never taken place, or there would have been no civil war, or slavery would still be around, or the US itself would have never come to exist, etc, etc, etc.

    Among other things, this site tries to inform potential law students about the ugly truths of law school and the legal market... Yeah, that sounds very liberal... and if you are a liberal, then leave... You must be Seton Hall student or alum!

  26. 722to be the dumbest person ever. Cuba? Is that the best retort you have? People from Cuba get on 2x4s and cross shark infested water to get out and you prop that place up? Did you learn nothing from your wife? I cant even comment further that was such a dumb post.

  27. @5:26 - I've gotta weigh in here, you fckn wombat - China??!

    China? Socialist??!? China's your average Wall St Republican's wet dream. Totalitarian capitalism, state apparatus crushing any threat to the privilege of a money-making elite. Cheney can only dream of that scene.

    Colonel - wipe me down with a moist towelette. that stuff is ripe.

  28. To the piece of trash who posted at 7:06 pm,

    I’ll give you $5 so that you can find a homeless man who would be willing to stuff his balls in your mouth. That ought to make you shut up momentarily.

    No one here is saying that a law degree entitles one to a six-figure salary. That is YOUR statement. When you rely on straw men “arguments,” to make your case, it shows that you do not care about the facts. We all know that you don’t have any integrity, cockroach. If you want to discuss the issue as an adult, then back up your case with some facts, bitch. If not, I’ll spray you down with some RAID.

    Furthermore, if you have a problem with this “socialist website,” then leave. Don’t visit the blog, dumbass. Do you understand that concept, Stupid?!?! For instance, if I don’t like a certain store or restaurant, I do not give them any business. That is a hell of a lot easier than leaving the country, moron. By the way, I own a house. Plus, I am not going anywhere - just as your ancestors did not leave when the “natives” made it clear they didn’t want them here. Also, running away like a pussy, i.e. you, is not the solution.

    In sum, take your blatantly idiotic “love it or leave it” meme and cram it up your ass. (After I shoved your straw man up your rectum, there should still be some room up there.) Then I’ll grab a match and light it up, once it is firmly implanted in the upper regions of your colon.

    Also, I am not a socialist. However, I sure as hell am not a fan of casino capitalism. Plus, wealthy people and corporations are fans of (limited) socialism - when it guarantees that they will benefit under the system. Why do you think that U.S. taxpayers have consistently bailed out S&Ls, banks, auto manufacturers, airlines, etc.?!?!

    As anyone with an iota of intelligence can see, the piece of garbage who posted at 7:06, 7:11 and 7:29 is a tool. Learn how to argue, and back up your “case“ with some valid facts. If your only “contribution” is to attack others personally, then your comments will be deleted.

    Now, you have been called out, pussy. Let’s see if you can actually muster up a cogent argument for once, dickface.

    By the way, readers: this troll is from the Alexandria, VA area. He tried to mask his usage, by relying on IP yesterday. He has been called out before several times, and has NEVER been able to provide a rational, fact-based argument.

    According to my stats, this cockroach has made 159 visits to this site since February 18, 2011. I guess this pile of excrement does not understand that if he hates a site so much that it is possible to stop visiting the site.

  29. By the way, here is the pig who posted at 8:16 pm yesterday:

    Apparently, this ball-less wonder lives in Durham, NC. Does your mother know that you have made 240 visits to this site, since January 16, 2011 9:43 am?! By the way, Firefox web browsers are garbage, bitch.

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Apr 15 2011 9:30pm 1 action 10s
    Apr 15 2011 9:15pm 1 action 10s
    Apr 15 2011 8:02pm 13 actions 43m 17s
    Apr 15 2011 7:37pm 5 actions 13m 2s
    Apr 15 2011 3:17pm 2 actions 22s
    Apr 15 2011 2:46pm 5 actions 12m 14s
    Apr 15 2011 1:43pm 13 actions 48m 52s

    Here is the Alexandria, VA ball-licker's activity for yesterday:

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Apr 15 2011 11:11pm 1 action 5m 19s
    Apr 15 2011 9:13pm 2 actions 8m 46s
    Apr 15 2011 7:26pm 7 actions 13m 55s
    Apr 15 2011 7:06pm 2 actions 8m 54s
    Apr 15 2011 6:45pm 2 actions 8m 47s

    It is beyond sad to see a couple of industry apologist cockroaches posting garbage comments late on a Friday night, to a web site they claim to hate. The weather is warmer now. Go out and leave your parents' basements. I suppose no women would want to go out with either of you, since you both suffer from ball shrinkage disorder.

    Perhaps you two dolts should get together on the weekend, for some male companionship. Plus, your parents would save money on your calls to "adult phone chat lines."

  30. At the Hilton at Short Hills, men and girls will come and go like moths among the whisperings and the champagne and the stars.

    The lights will grow brighter as the earth lurches away from the sun, and the orchestra will be playing yellow cocktail music.....
    Laughter will become easier minute by minute as all converse in reference to the Chairman and Managing Director of the great PC.

  31. Love you, Nando. I hope your blog continues to reach many "aspiring lawyers."

    You make me proud to be a lawyer.

    TTT Graduate, 1994

  32. JD Painter Guy:

    You are neither a painter nor a lawyer.
    You are a poet.

    And you've seen enough of life to create real artistic expression.

  33. Great article regarding this cesspool. True story about this fraud of an institution:

    Several years ago a tenured property professor (who is featured on this TTTToilet's website today via a video promotion) plagiarized the entire multiple choice portion of her final exam from a commercial study guide available at the bookstore. We are talking word for word here. The other fifty percent of the exam was an essay exam. Word eventually got out that half of this exam was entirely fraudulent. Worse, it was determined that this great enlightened "educator" tipped off a small group of her "favorite" students to buy and study from this commercial study guide.

    As the scandal grew, the Associate Dean Boozang (aptly nicknamed by Nando I might add) made up some pathetic system where they would take your highest grade averaged out with the essay plus multiple choice exam or with the essays alone. This pathetic hypocritical "professor" was not allowed to continue teaching her scheduled "property 2" continuance of this course in the following semester.

    What this snake professor and this weasel administration failed to address was the blatant ACADEMIC FRAUD, nepotism, and laziness of some despicable scoundrel professor making a handsome six figure salary and not even taking a few hours to make up her own multiple choice exam once every semester.

    The proof of this story exists in the school's very own course records. There is no reason that a professor would be replaced in between Property 1 and Property 2. They were (At least back then) supposed to teach both courses and provide continuity in the instruction to the students in that section.

    Avoid this rotten disgusting fraudulent TTToilet at all costs. Don't believe its statistics. Don't trust its administration.

    Thanks Nando for a great summary of this shamed cesspool.

  34. @April 15, 2011 7:06 PM:

    Dear non-elite law school cheerleader:

    Justice Scalia himself, being the asshole that he is, nonetheless truthfully and unashamedly confirmed the importance of elitism in this shitbag of a prestige-whoring "profession":

    “By and large,” Scalia said during the April 24 law school appearance, “I’m going to be picking from the law schools that basically are the hardest to get into. They admit the best and the brightest, and they may not teach very well, but you can’t make a sow’s ear out of a silk purse. If they come in the best and the brightest, they’re probably going to leave the best and the brightest, OK?”

    From ABA Journal, May 12, 2009

    Any questions?

  35. "There is no entitlement in the legal profession, just like there is no entitlement in any other profession."

    April 15, 2011 7:06 PM

    Name ONE licensed medical doctor not practicing medicine who has not either voluntarily left medicine or been convicted of a crime.

    Name ONE.

    I's about supply and demand, idiot, not entitlement.

  36. Seton Hall is a joke. A sick festering joke. Why the fuck should someone put their life on hold and take out $150K in loans when they're gonna end up in shitlaw. And that's if they're lucky. Shit, the way the economy is now these kids are lucky if they can find doc review.

  37. My brother is an unemployed doctor. He finished his three year residency last May, and has yet to land a job as a general practitioner. As a result, he has been selling insurance for the past few months.

    The medical profession has been hit hard just like the legal profession (albeit the legal profession has been hit harder due to the fact that lawyers are much more replaceable). However, you can't compare the two professions. It is much more difficult to be certified as a doctor than a lawyer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete idiot. It takes a MINIMUM of seven years to even be certified as a doctor, while it only takes three to become a lawyer. Specialist doctors usually require eight to twelve years of training before they can even be certified! Furthermore, med school is a hell of a lot more difficult, and requires a HELL OF A LOT more natural intelligence.

    Medical school is also more expensive, and is much more difficult to get into. You morons sit back and compare lawyers to doctors, when they are not even in the same league. Doctor's save lives, while most lawyers take advantage of people in order to get rich. Anyone who tells you that lawyers help people is full of shit. Just like almost any other profession, they are in it to make money. So tell me, why the fuck are doctors always compared to lawyers? Doctors are miles ahead of lawyers in intelligence, work ethic, and morals.

    Comparing doctors to lawyers is like comparing Thomas M. Cooley to Harvard.

  38. April 16, 2011 2:57 PM :

    Not to try to knock you off your high horse or anything, but no one here is trying to put down medicine or say it's easy or something.

    Don't quite know where you are picking that up.

    Someone mentioned relative employability among "professions", and, BY FAR, there are undoubtedly fewer, if any, physicians who are licensed and unemployed. Your bro is the first I have heard of in my time. Truly, I have NEVER met an unemployed licensed MD/DO, but TONS of licensed JD's. I personally consider law a cesspool and not a real profession. However, where you are getting the perception that someone thinks law and medicine are somehow comparable as to abilities, skills and intelligence, I cannot imagine. Whether you like it or not, or are personally offended or not, people (not me) DO consider law, for some strange reason, a "profession."

    You can take the railroad-tie sized chip off your shoulder now. All of us "morons" will be grateful.

  39. For April 15, 2011 11:11 AM
    Some things that you need to know about George Washington, from a student there.
    (1) It is the most expensive school in the United States for Undergrad. It been so for several years in a row. I've heard that way back in the day the tuition was sane.
    (2) 'The' George Washington University is heavily in debt because of a building campaign, and the purchase of two more campuses recently. They have been looking for money and will promise to name a building after you if you are rich and will give them a lot of money.
    (3) The law school also is not cheap (But here it simply compares with all the other law schools)
    (4) It is rumored that a significant fraction of the students are also on Georgetown's Waitlist.
    (5) The place is cursed to always be on the second tier, riding in the middle between greatness and trash. It has good professors; However undergrad alumni supposedly are mad at the place and don't donate. The Law school will never be in the T14 and will also probably not be on Third Tier Reality. It provides a 1st tier education, but it does third tier things like advertise on Pandora.

  40. ^I just looked up GWU's full-time tuition for the law school. The figure listed was $43,999. For the current year. Total cost of attendance is over $70K. Good lord that's a lotta money!

    For that alone the school should appear in these pages. Who's crazy enough to take on such debt? When the fuck will people wake up and refuse to pay these astronomical rates? Kids, you are not going to buy your way to the middle class. Only go to GW if your family has money and is going to pay the bill. Other than that you gotta be batshit crazy to go there. I mean certifiably crazy.

  41. @ 2:57:

    After high school, the great scientist who sequenced the genome, Craig Venter served as a Navy-Marine Corps medic in Vientam.

    Venter performed numerous surgeries on the field and saved many lives.

    After the war, Venter wanted to become a civilian surgeon, so he enrolled in a university and studied pre-med. He didn’t need the knowledge. He’d already performed lots of emergency field surgeries and could do it well. He needed the credentials to say that he is a civilian doctor.

    He found the path to acquiring the credentials to become a doctor to be so cumbersome that he became a molecular biologist instead.

    So the medical profession creates numerous barriers to entry to limit the supply and therefore increase their wages. How many doctors really need to remember the details of physics and chemistry that they learned as undergrad? And do they really need close to straight As?

    If I were president, I’d declare that there is an under supply of American doctors, order a million H1B visas for doctors from India to come to the US, and drop their wages by half. The same thing has happened for computer science professional.

    Info on Craig Venter’s great book:

  42. @ Anonymous at 11:11
    It's a private school, so they can charge whatever they want, and it's in the District of Colombia so it has "prestige" because it's next door to the government. What you probably understand is that "prestige" is "everything" to universities; it brings in students and attracts professors, even if the former is up to their eyeballs in debt by the time they graduate. The other element for students is the chance to network and possibly make contacts with powerful people, either professors or the legacy children of John Q. Moneybanks. I don't know if that actually works, but I have been told that graduate school is a great place to make contacts (!) GWU isn't the only one like that; GA Tech is considered the primo engineering school of the South, but that "prestige" fades away once you cross the Mississippi River....they also won't tell you that everybody is on a 2.0 curve so you're fighting uphill the whole way. I personaly feel that the prestige game is killing higher education just as much as the rising tuition costs, and that the elite school of today will become an abandoned shell when the edu-industry hits the skids.


    On March 21, 2010, Newark Star-Ledger reporter and ass-clown Steve Politi wrote this glowing, fawning review of SHU Law dean Patrick Hobbs taking over as interim Athletic Director:

    “The man who is dismantling and rebuilding Seton Hall sports is not a coach, an athletic director or a priest.

    Patrick Hobbs is the law school dean, and at most universities, the suggestion that a person in his role also oversees the basketball program would be laughed right off campus.

    Here, it makes perfect sense. Here, in an athletic department that seemed to be operating like a town in the old wild west, someone had to come in and play the role of the sheriff.”

    “Hobbs is the chair of a five-member search committee that also includes Karen Boroff, the former Dean of the Stillman School of Business at Seton Hall; Sal Petruzzi, a senior VP at Turner Sports; Jimmy O’Donnell, a senior associate AD at Seton Hall; and Dr. Laura Schoppman, a faculty athletic representative.”

    As of January 11, 2011, the five-member committee, in charge of finding another AD, was comprised of two academics and three people who may have had an idea of what the athletics department needs.

    Then-Iona College AD Patrick Lyons took over the same role for Seton Hall on March 28, 2011. At least, SHU’s sports programs are no longer being run or overseen by the dean of the sewer of law. The question is: Will Steve Politi still wet his pants over the athletic program, now that Hobbs is no longer running the show?

    By the way, when I emailed Politi and asked him how much the law school paid him to write the glowing piece on Hobbs, he responded: “I don’t respond to such emails.” I guess Dumbass did not realize that he actually did respond to my email. (He simply didn’t answer my question.)

  44. The Valvoline Dean Pat Hobbs may need a 6 month student loan financed sabbatical from that grueling "service" as athletic director. Taking 8 months to hire the new AD from a TTTT school/program while simultaneously cementing the destruction and irrelevance of a once proud competitive Big East program is an understandably exhausting task. I hope he will return re-energized and refocused on glad handing for donations to finance his own bloated salary while somehow continuing to drive the law school rankings into the same abyss he cast the athletic program. This servant leader is a shining emblem of how to maximize nepotism, fail upwards, and emerge spotless time and again from every catastrophe he contributes to,causes or is associated with. A vision of the new american dream, all for one and none for all. This man should capitilize on his newly earned failmentum and blast through to the next level by latching on to some large political donors like a leech and run for office. He then can spread his self aggrandizing methods to the expense millions, instead of thousands, and run on a platform of "cutting entitlements", ignoring the fact that his entire existence is supported by a pyramid of the same. Valvodean Express 2012!

  45. They calculate the student's living expenses as $18,900, while the faculty is living on around $300,000 a year to teach, maybe six hours a week. Law school is crap. Netflix could stream law school classes on demand for $7.99 a month. I really do not see why someone should physically have to attend a law school. We all learn the same things in law school whether you go to Yale or Seton Hall. We all read the same case books or similar ones. The teaching does not change from year to year. Unlike dental or medical school their is very little practical, value added experience from watching a professor perform a procedure, because they teach no procedures. Law schools do so very little to prepare students. Everything I have learned about being a lawyer, I learned outside of law school. Why not put all of Harvard's law classes on Netflix? Harvard Prof., Arthur Miller did that for Kaplan aka internet law school Concord School of Law. I enjoyed undergrad for many reasons, it was a way different experience. Law school I survived. I did not enjoy much about being there. For me, Netflix School of Law would have worked fine. Imagine paying $7.99 a month to be lectured by Harvard Professors. Get the group PSI, that administers tests for all kinds of courses, such as real estate licensing, to give the one test a class exam for a nominal fee. You could go at your own pace and maybe be out less than $5,000, and that would include someone grading legal writing, grading exams, and we could even throw in bar prep at that price. In the information age physical law schools are obsolete. Why pay $135,000 for something that can be recorded, and then streamed or downloaded? I went to a top twenty law school and I can tell you their was no "special sauce" that they had that lower ranked schools did not have. Sure, maybe one of my professors may have clerked for the Supreme Court. Big deal. Did that help me or add value to my experience, not really. My entering classes GPA and LSAT scores were much higher, than a lesser law school. If I had to pick the single difference between law schools is the admission standards. I did meet some really smart people, but the subject material is all the same between law schools, and their is a lot of self study. If someone that could get into Yale Law School with a 3.9 GPA and a 175 LSAT, instead went to Netflix Law School, they would still be smart. Same as if one of the really low ranked law schools graduates with a 2.8 GPA and a 151 LSAT, instead went to Netflix Law School, they would come out with their respective level of brain power. If you go to a top ten law school, you could say you are paying for the hype of the ranking and maybe that will have some value due to the obsession of rank in our profession for decent job opportunities, but the lower down you go the less ranking matters to the point that is meaningless. If the hype of your law school being in the top ten almost guarantees you a 160K job then the 150K gamble is probably worth it. For the vast majority of our profession they would be better served by going to Netflix School of law for $5,000. I know of lot of law graduates that could use that additional $145,000 they would have spent at a traditional law school to not be burdened by debt or use that money to open their own practice. I would rather see that happen than students being raped so law school professors can make $300,000 without enriching other people's lives. How anyone working at a low ranked law school that charges 30K-45K and has the benefit of really knowing what awaits their graduates can sleep at night is beyond me.


  47. 10:23pm FTW - Bravo sir




    Seton Hall University School of Law is one of three law schools located in the state of New Jersey (Rutgers-Camden and Rutgers-Newark being the other two). Although Seton Hall is slightly higher ranked than the Rutgers schools (#72 versus #80 and #80, respectively), it is also much more expensive to attend. With a sky-high tuition of $45,048 and poor job prospects for the majority of graduates, attending Seton Hall is most likely a bad idea. Even those who receive scholarship money must place in the top 50% of their class in order to avoid losing their aid, so students who do decide to attend Seton Hall on scholarship should be prepared to work hard.



    Attending Seton Hall Law School should be a decision that is thought over with great care. The school's job prospects are mediocre for the vast majority of graduates, and the tuition is frankly outrageous. Despite what the U.S. News Rankings might say from year to year, one would almost undoubtedly be better off paying in-state tuition at one of the Rutgers schools.

  49. Do NOT! I repeat!!! Do NOT attend the Seton Hall Law Toilet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is beyond redemption.

  50. Seton Hall reeks of putrid filth. But the bastards keep lining up and paying $45K to go to this shithole. Of course Valvoline Fuckhead is going to keep the doors open.

  51. I don't feel sorry for any kid that attends this toxic dumpster of a law school. If you are a 1L, that means you are in the Class of 2013. That means you had ample warning and you threw caution to the wind. If NYU law grads are having a hard time finding a job, SHU law grads are completely fucked. The Valvoline dean may sugarcoat the state of the legal profession by saying that the legal market is rebounding but we all know that is bullshit. Sure the lateral market has improved but hiring for entry level associate positions has been severely contracted and that won't recover, even when the economy improves. Good luck servicing a lifetime of non-dischargeable student loan debt while wearing the stigma of an SHU law degree for the rest of your life. Oh, and good luck with trying to wash the stench of that SHU JD with a Harvard LLM.

  52. I can tell you I graduated from that fucking dump over 10 years ago and wouldn't go to their fucking dances unless a 22 year old Loni Anderson agreed to lick my ass for two weeks nonstop.

    All it is is a circle jerk for the butt buddies of Hobbs and the several other cretins who perpetuate the myth on the unsuspecting idiots who sign the student aid forms at that shithole.

    And I was one of the lucky ones from that dump. But I busted my ass to get them. The average schmuck from that hole makes $30 an hour that is if they can get work.

  53. You don't even want to know what Seton Hall Law, Patrick Hobbs and Kathleen Boozang did to me.

    Every night I go to bed and pray I die in my sleep and every morning I ask if today is the day I eat a bullet.

  54. When I went there they told us to "downplay" the violence, crime, and gang presence in Newark. And "don't mention the threats against the Prudential Center...just show the incoming students the Starbucks."


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