Friday, May 20, 2011

Putrid, Moist Fecal Matter: University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law

Tuition: A full-time student at this “prestigious” law school will be charged $39,916 in tuition - for the 2010-2011 school year. Those attending McGeorge on a part-time basis will only need to pay $26,530, for the same academic year.

Ranking: The cost of attendance is steep. Certainly, the school’s sterling reputation will justify this expense, right?!?! Well, according to the rag known as US “News” & World Report, this commode is the 100th best law school in the United States. It shares this distinction with the following trash pits: Syracuse University, University of Louisville, and the University of San Francisco.

Supposed Employment Placement and Starting Salary Figures: As you can see, the commode claims that 89.76% of the members - of its Class of 2008 - was employed within nine months of graduation. However, only 76.7 of this particular graduating class was employed in jobs “requiring bar passage.” This figure also takes part-time positions into account. Yes, these results are definitely worth $39,916 in annual tuition, right?!?!

Furthermore, this stench pit asserts that the average starting salaries for 2008 Pacific JDs working in law firms was $76,561. Keep in mind that out of the 270 respondents who reported being employed, only 134 reported salary info. Who knows? Perhaps they were too embarrassed to report that they were rolling in cash, driving Maseratis and dating models. This particular graduating class had 301 members. Apparently, the faculty pigs feel that California does not have enough lawyers.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: For all of this commode’s shortcomings, at least the school is first tier when it comes to average law student indebtedness! In fact, the school is the tenth best at strapping down its law graduates with NON-DISCHARGEABLE, soul-crushing debt. This is a sure sign of a greaTT in$TTiTTuTTion, isn’t it?

USN&WR lists the average student indebtedness of 2010 McGeorge graduates who incurred law school debt as $128,495. Only 84% of this poor, unfortunate graduating class took on such toxic debt. For those who have severe learning disabilities, this figure does not consider student debt from undergrad.

Faculty and Administrator Pay: We will head over to page 40 of The University of the Pacific’s 2009 Form 990, to see how well these academics are doing - at the expense of the students’ future.

Glenn Fait, law lecturer and Director of the Institute for Administrative Justice, made $250,134 in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2008. Jean Purnell, previously listed as dean of the McGeorge Sewer of Law since July 2002, received $200,551 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, in 2008.  According to her, she has never been a member of the law faculty.  Apparently, the school was confused about her role.

Generosity of the School: According to Law School Numbers, McGeorge $chool of Law awarded full tuition scholarships to 1% of its students in 2005-2006, while providing half-tuition offers to 5.8% of its customers. In addition, 0.4% of these students reveived full-tuition scholarships plus a stipend. By the way, LSN shows that the University of the Pacific had a total JD enrollment of 1,001 students - in 2006-2007.

Global Center for Business & Development: Check out this comic material:

“The Pacific McGeorge Global Center for Business & Development pursues educational, scholarly and practical initiatives addressing the interface between the global economy and the legal profession. The efforts of the Center are a principal reason why the international law program at Pacific McGeorge is recognized as the #15 top international law program in the United States.”
So, you want to contribute to the outsourcing and off-shoring of more legal jobs, huh?! By the way, who gives a damn that McGeorge is (allegedly) seen as a “top 15” international law program in the U.S.? These students will NOT be practicing “international law,” consulting the United Nations, drafting treaties, or advising any of the puppets occupying the oval office.

Conclusion: This commode - located in Sacramento, California - charges obscene tuition, for a shoddy product. In addition, JDs from this school cannot hope to compete against their counterparts at Stanford and Cal-Berkeley. In fact, as this toilet’s employment chart shows, these kids are not in the same league. This swamp pit produces HUGE graduating classes, further saturating the FLOODED California lawyer job market.
Why in the hell would you take on $130K-$160K in additional, NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - for the opportunity to earn $40K-$70K? If your goal is to become a public defender or small-time lawyer, you DO NOT NEED to take out monstrous levels in student loans. This school presents itself as a leader and innovator in “legal education.” If you truly want to practice law, then you should be able to see through this institution’s silly nonsense.


  1. Law professors have it made. I think they keep raising tuition because they know the party is almost over, and the pigs are trying to wring every last penny out of their profit machine. When these greedy fuckbags aren't counting their blood money, they enjoy bleating to their students about the importance of ethics, and sacrificing your time for the community.

  2. I agree with that, law professors are ridiculously paid for what little work they do. They teach, maybe 6 hours a week, the rest of the time they are free to do whatever they want. They spend their free time writing articles that no one reads, it is highly dubious what benefit it provides to law students. Law professors also get to earn additional money by writing case books or teaching Bar review courses.

    Then there is the joke they call sabbatical. Why do they need a sabbatical, they do so little work. Often, professors get paid by two law schools during this period. All of this and they do not even teach the basics of how to actually practice law. Just put the whole law school experience on the internet and charge 10K. We need do not need a physical structure for law schools. An apprentice system would serve the legal field much better.

    Get rid of law professors and faculty.

  3. WHy don't the schools get rid of their $1 million presidents and $200K professors and hire desperate law grads? The poor fucks would teach law for less than $60K a year.

  4. Get rid of tenure and let the current dinosaurs that "serve" as faculty compete with fresher, cheaper minds.

    When 33-year-old Jennifer Patterson graduated last week with fellow law students at the TC Williams School of Law at the University of Richmond, she knew she was facing an uncertain future as an attorney.

    On Thursday, Patterson pled guilty in Richmond Federal Court to one count of conspiracy to possess with the intent to distribute more than 500 grams of methamphetamine.

  6. @9:43 - Well at least now Jennifer will be a jailhouse lawyer, she'll have more clients than she would have as a solo, and the pay is better too, even if it is in cigarettes!

    Keep it up Nando!

  7. Egads!

    Truly, there are now more law schools in America than Taco Bell franchises.

    I admit I missed the boat on this. I had a chance to buy and convert an abandoned car dealership garage a few years back; I could have taken advantage of BOTH the real estate AND the law school/grad school bubbles by installing some bookshelves, a couple used fax machines, and a few desks and chairs. Voila! A new "law school" would have been brought into being, which presumably I then could have sold for its profit-making potential. Now, I am convinced this bubble too shall soon burst.

    {sigh} Another opportunity missed. And, that opportunity sure wasn't practicing law!

  8. $120,000 for this place? I wonder at what point it becomes legally unconscionable. I mean, if I stand on a corner and convince a mentally retarded person to buy a twig and some leaves for a promise to pay $120,000 over 30 years at 8% interest, it's not going to hold up in court, is it? And yet, this school is peddling a degree that, for 75% of its graduates, is going to be as worthless as the twig and leaves. If anything, the twig and leaves will make better kindling than the diploma AND there's no massive opportunity cost.

  9. Senator Boxer sends another letter to the ABA:


    I may disagree with her on many issues, but I am so thankful she is trying to amend the system and improve the situation.

  10. The Estate supports victims of the law school scam! All TTT graduates are welcome to our 2011 Spring Festival. Ben Stein will be in attendance and provide entertainment. Best regards!

  11. I would rather get caught in a "honey trap" than fall victim to the law school scam.


  12. "I would rather get caught in a "honey trap" than fall victim to the law school scam."

    This brings to mind the "Gonzagas" discussion on the last post.

  13. Dear Lemmings,

    Please note carefully Nando's comments on international law. This goes for any program at any school. The only thing people care about is the school's overall rank. Today's subject is a flat-out shithole and rip-off and graduates stand a better chance of working at IHOP than "doing" international law.

  14. The Seton Hall Law Toilet boasts of it's 'Health Care Law Program'. So for $150K plus you may take a couple electives about the laws of a flawed for profit health care leviathan! BWAHAHAHA! Great deal! A flawed corrupt TTT teaching about a flawed corrupt system! Well they should have a good grasp of the concept.


    Here is some more filth overflowing from this garbage can:

    “Educating lawyers to lead.....Analyzing and influencing public policy

    Pacific McGeorge's Capital Center for Public Law & Policy takes advantage of the unique concentrated energy, expertise and activities of California's capital city to offer student programs, relevant scholarship and needed public service, from local to global.”

    Yes, firms care very much about such centers, right?!?!

    “Educating lawyers to represent clients ethically and skillfully.

    Our advocacy program offers a rich array of courses where students learn to apply theory to realistic legal programs in both the trial and appellate setting.

    Further, the Center and its faculty have provided training programs for countries around the world, including Chile, Italy, Cambodia, Rwanda, Uganda, and Kosovo. In addition, Pacific McGeorge is the recipient of a $1.6 million dollar USAID grant to assist China in the creation of skills-based legal education programs that focus on the application of law in practice. Our interest in international law has led McGeorge to create an innovative LL.M. program in Experiential Law Teaching.

    Our faculty members have written books that are included in curriculum at over 100 law schools around the country.”

    Big deal. Ten days ago, I made 19 out of 20 free throw attempts. In fact, after missing the second shot, I made 18 in a row. I am more proud of that accomplishment than I am about my extensive “education.” Plus, the experience did not cost me three years of my life or $37K.

    By the way, why should an American toilet spend resources to help China design a skills-based “legal education” curriculum?!?! Do we need to outsource yet more doc review and legal jobs?! I wonder if this training will be conducted in English, and center on common law.

    Because we need to make sure that American JDs not only drown in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – but that they must also compete with English-speaking foreign attorneys, right?!?!

  16. University of the Pacific has a shit ass law schoolMay 20, 2011 at 2:39 PM

    McGeorge prepares graduates to enter the fun and delicious field of fast food.

    Welcome to McDonalds. Want fries with that?

  17. McDonalds is Food for the body and soul of mankind and a Nation. McDonalds is the last, great hope of the world, with an indelible mark upon the terra firma of America.

    May God Bless and keep McDonalds, and that filthy clown.

    They's be rich, and me's be educated and lifetime indebted and poor.

    And all the other greasy and unhealthy melted lard cartoon characters that slide filthy money under the table with Holywood and the rest of Corporate America.

  18. I'll have a McGeorge with friesMay 20, 2011 at 5:01 PM

    The proper name of this school is MCGEORGE, because MCGEORGE DOMINATES.

  19. Fuck McDonald's. Da whole gang. Ronald. Grimace. Bee tee dubs, what the fuck is Grimace anywyas? Early Bird. Fry Guys. Hamburglar. That police chief guy wit' da hamburger head. Mayor McCheese can kick mah grits.

    Can ya smell what The Colonel's cookin'? Don' be lettin' meh hear 'bout no McDonalds. Ya hear meh? Bes ye gots enny sense? Y'all knows ya can't be mentionin' no McDonald's when I's come 'round.

    When I was drivin' 'round dis them here piece a shit country, sellin' mah heavenly herbs 'n spices 'n shit, didja see mah ass comin' up wit' dis shit? Hell mothafuckin' no! I was sellin' my recipe 'n I didn't need need to come up wit' enny ten foot tall chickens wearin' dresses o' big ol' clown shoes.

    Ya see how The Colonel pulled his ol' wrinkly as up by his bootstraps? That jus' goes t' be showin' ya ya can't make up up for a shitty product wit' some little cartoons 'n such.

    Look how dat hard work be payin’ off for meh. I’s gots a muthafuckin’ museum. Boom-shaka-laka. Boom.

    Bam! How’s ya be likin’ dems apples, Ronald McFuckface? Da’s what I’s be talkin’ ;bout!

  20. Granted, McGeorge doesn't produce a ton of high-end private sector attorneys (probably produces more IHOP workers). But anyone that has worked in Sacramento state government can tell you that essentially everyone is a McGeorge grad. Crazy the numbers of them working in the legal department I did IT in.

  21. "In addition, Pacific McGeorge is the recipient of a $1.6 million dollar USAID grant to assist China in the creation of skills-based legal education programs that focus on the application of law in practice."

    Great, let's design one of those for the USA too! I am all for a "skill-based legal education...that focus[es] on the application of law in practice," which would exclude those money-fattened parasites called "deans" and "law professors."

    Law school should be four or five semesters, not six, and class size should be capped in the double-digits. The pseudo-Socratic classroom farce should be eliminated. There should be a bar-review type course at the beginning to teach the rudiments of the law fast. All other courses, except for legal writing, should be clinicals supervised by adjuncts, i.e. respected local practioners paid on a per-course basis.

    With the massive financial savings, a law graduate could be encouraged-- even expected-- to do a six month unpaid internship at the end in a specialty of his or her choice.

  22. Fuckin' A, th' Coin'el is back!

    If I have a choice between McD's and KFC, I choose chicken every time - the KFC people know what they are doing.

    Meanwhile, back at the Crapshack (UPMSL)'s a total scam. It would make a metric fuckton more sense if they would charge less the lower the school is on the rankings (so that going to a bottom of the garbage can school would cost as much as a low-end CSU campus.) Instead we have this mishmash where a TTT can cost MORE than an elite law school.

    Finally, what should be done with how the law is taught? Totally trash the Socratic method and go for more of a "this is how to do the paperwork, this is how to argue a case, welcome tollacies 101" setup? Or a mix? Please take into account that I never went to law school, though I did take Logic and I was in my JC's Forensics team.

  23. Should be "welcome to Logical Fallacies 101"....damn yuo keybord!!

  24. i think i am going to start a law school where practicing lawyers teach the classes. Not these law professor goons. One thing I remember from law school was that it had no credibility because we were learning from people who have practiced law like Barack Obama practiced law.

    Less class time, more preparation for the real world.

    I need a name and location. Who wants in?

  25. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  26. I read the 9:50 comment on May 20th. I don't know if I should believe what he is saying or not (I notice that he didn't say that he graduated from Law School, just the University of the Pacific).
    If you go to the USN&WR page on McGeorge -->
    You can see that the median private sector starting salary from McGeorge for 2011 is $72,000. Now medians are not means, and are not subject to being 'driven' by really high (Or really low) numbers. They are drivable by a large number of outcomes being just above the median and another large number of outcomes being very-very shitty. Remember that The median suggests that the chance of making less than $72,000 is 50%.

    If USN&WR has decided to attempt to force an actual Gaussian distribution, that would make it reasonable to treat the median like a mean and a mode (Even though, because Law School grad salaries are bimodal, this is not supported by reality). If the median is treatable as a mean, that means that a salary outcome of $350,000 means that someone or several someones has to have a salary outcome that is really bad in order for the median/mean/mode to come out to $72,000.

  27. @9:50. We all know that there are always exceptions to the rule. I'm sure everyone has their own story about how some idiot in law school got a great job even though he/she couldn't lawyer himself/herself out of a paper bag. In any event, the above story reeks of bullshit. By the way, the University of the Pacific is a crap hole and should be shut down. Outside of CA/OR/WA, who in their right mind would hire a U. of Pacific grad? At best, it is a regional school and one that has very little name recognition or reputation. Avoid this dump.

  28. To the lying cockroach who posted at 9:50 pm,

    Time Visitor Session
    May 20 2011 9:31pm 14 actions 35m 33s
    May 19 2011 11:11pm 2 actions 8m 54s
    May 18 2011 5:44pm 1 action 8m 39s
    May 12 2011 6:47pm 3 actions 18m 59s
    May 10 2011 12:56pm 1 action 10s
    May 10 2011 8:42am 1 action 10s
    May 9 2011 4:22pm 6 actions 11m 50s
    May 8 2011 3:16pm 8 actions 22m 45s
    May 8 2011 2:46pm 3 actions 15m 43s

    How are things in Alexandria, VA, moist turd? Did your male escort stand you up again?! It is OBVIOUS that you are not with Goldman Sachs, cretin. Someone making that type of money would be too busy to post a comment, on this blog, at 11:50 pm EST.

    By the way, this liar has posted similar garbage on several entries. He claimed to be a DC Biglaw associate making $120K, two years after graduating from American University COL. Then he said that he taught law at UDC. (He then admitted that he has never been a “law professor.”) Next, he was a tax lawyer pulling in about $150K.

    The waste pile has also claimed to be a recent graduate of several commodes, earned average grades, and is now making it in New York Biglaw. In sum, this kid is so pathetic that he constantly chooses to troll here - from different locations in Alexandria, VA and Washington, DC.

    He has been exposed as a mentally-unbalanced liar and a piece of trash. Yet, he continues his pursuit. I have also blocked his IP address, because he adds nothing of value to this site. But the loser is willing to go to various locations and use up other people’s wi-fi.

    Hey, cockroach, the ONLY way in hell you could even get hired in the mail room at Goldman Sachs is if you got on your knees and performed fellatio on every Board member. Seeing that you have no self respect, honor, integrity, or decency, I am sure that you would gladly do so.

    How does it feel to be flushed down the commode yet again, Bitch? Why do you continue to spread lies, you piece of garbage? Do YOU want to see more students of modest means take out monstrous levels of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt?!?! You need to remain on your medications, ball-licker. When you feel better, it is due to the medication. Do not reduce your dosage. You are not a doctor, moron. In fact, you cannot even manage to keep a consistent (false) storyline.

  29. This is what the liar from Alexandria, VA, wrote:

    "The University of the Pacific is a top school, and gave me the tools I needed to get where I am today. I currently earn 350 grand a year, and in five years, I will be earning well over a million. Yeah be jealous. The Pacific is a superb school, and even though I was not at the top of my class, I networked well and was thus able to get hired by Goldman Sachs."

    Next time, this industry apologist cockroach will say that he graduated in the top half of his class at the University of Wyoming, in 2009, and is now making $500K per year with...Goldman Sachs in New York. Apparently, the mental deficient has not heard of any other investment banking and securities firm. Also, the waterhead is unaware that Goldman has other locations.

    On February 20, 2011 at 1:57 pm, the Alexandria cockroach typed:

    "I graduated from American University in 2007, and work for a firm in D.C. making over 150 k a year."

    On February 21, 2011 2:33 PM, the pig wrote:

    "Alright guys, I lied and I am sorry. I am currently a professor at the University of D.C school of law, and I am deeply angered by this entire blog which is filled with lies and false information. How dare you disrespect legitimate law schools like these? You have no right to spread such lies about reputable institutions. I am going to request that you either end this blog now, or change it to another topic. Failure to do so, and I will notify my superiors, and a course of legal action could be taken against this drivel.


    In a comment posted on March 29, 2011 8:40 PM , the mentally-unbalanced loser claimed to be a third year law student at Hosftra University, in New York. The moron then stated that he was “top 30%” – and that he had a Wall Street job lined up.

    On March 30, 2011 at 10:06 am, the piece of trash stated:

    “My good friend graduated from St. Mary's and currently works at Goldman Sachs in NYC. Although I'm not saying St. Mary's is top notch, Goldmn Sachs obviously values the quality of the law school.”

  30. Ok Nando, time for me to come clean. My name is Aaron, and I am a current associate at Finnegan Henderson in Washington DC. I WILL NOT give you my last name, but I will tell you that I graduated from George Mason University School of Law in 2003. I just messed around on this site because I been disgusted and appalled at the way you continue to degrade the legal profession.

    You are a joke, as is everyone on this site. You flipped out about every stupid comment that I made, which was my exact intention. In any event, I am earning 400 plus a year, while you spend all day on a blog. Say what you want, but I am a lawyer who made it big, while you failed at becoming a lawyer, just like you do at life. Law school isn't for everyone, but those who pursue law with a passion, live a fulfilling life. I am not going to give me my last name, as I would prefer to remain anonymous. Have fun selling insurance for the next thirty years.

    Yours truly,

  31. Some people believe the world will end today. It won't, but the process of ending America and the freedoms that our forefathers fought to establish is in full motion.

    Many people voted for Barry Soetoro a/k/a Barack H. Obama. Obama is nothing put a Madison Avenue frontman creation for the truly elite (i.e., Bilderberg group, Wall Street banksters, the Federal Reserve, etc.).

    Many young people are becoming enslaved to the system. Obama preaches more education as the "key." This is BS. Obama wants our youth to be shackled to debt and the oppression of debt is what will keep our youth down, unable to think independently or stand up for our freedoms. This isn't a Republican/Democrat issue. The "battle" between donkeys and elephants is nothing more than a wrestling script designed to fool our population.

    People that are in law school are being taught bullshit. Read the U.S. Constitution. Identify how our Federal government has and is continuing to strip us of our rights. Just last week the Indiana Supreme Court ruled that the police can enter your home for any or NO REASON AT ALL. The Indiana Supreme Court ruled that the 4th Amendment is antiquarian. Before, the cops could bust in through your door if they heard the toilet flush because that gave them probable cause that you were flushing drugs down the toilet. Now, in Indiana, the cops can bust in through your door, fondle your wife, raid your refrigerator and take your money, after all, if you have over $100 in your pocket it must be drug money.

    Folks, open your eyes, don't be fooled by these educational scams. They are designed to keep you down. Nando, you are a true patriot in my eyes. Continue the good fight.

  32. The law is a fucking scam, people. It's a system of rules that rich and powerful people created. Out of thin air. It has been this way for millenia.

  33. I have no respect for these so called constitutional "scholars" such as Obama, John Yoo or Cass Sunstein. These people who swore to uphold the U.S. Constitution when they were admitted to practice law in their respective jurisdictions have burned the constitution in order to give "Presidents" Bush and Obama authority to sell this country down the river. If people want to understand what is happening to our nation, I suggest you google the "obama deception" and watch the documentary. Of course every documentary has a slant but this one is full of facts. Barry is nothing more than a puppet, a continuation of Bush policies that favor the elite. The elite financed Obama's campaign. Obama has spent over $2M to seal his school records. What is Barry Soetoro trying to hide? People, don't be duped by what is happening right now.

  34. Take a look at what this kid asked the EPJ. I think everyone on this site would love to set him on the right path. "Should I go to law school"

  35. Strelnikov,
    There are a few schools that are like that. Birmingham School of Law allows grads to sit for the AL bar. The school charges a nominal amount of tuition, and many of the teachers are local lawyers.

    The students come at night. I think BSL has some elements of ABA schools, but a debt free route to bar passage is very appealing. I knew of several people who went there. In fact, my dad knew a PI firm with one or two Vanderbilt grads and one or two BSL grads. Ha.

    I used to love reading the judges' bios in my contracts book as the class dragged on wasting time (I learned the fundementals of contract law from a 6 hour barbri video..and I did okay)These bios had many prominent judges "reading law" before taking the bar. I think VA still has some apprentice program.

    We should go back to this.

    Nando, as a catholic, I did not take well to your recent smears of the church. There is a great deal of evil in all institutions involving men. The modern catholic church is no exception. However, perfection is not something we will see in this world. I would like to engage you more on your views here. I do agree that the school is evil. There is not other way to say it.

    Thank you. Thank you for helping to get the word out about this huge scam and evil. Your efforts, albiet obscene, are a huge service to many.


  37. @3:02 pm,

    You are referring to my post on Gonzaga University Sewer of Law, a Jesuit in$tition that charges its students $33,960 in annual tuition. This blog does not run away from controversy. For instance, I aggressively go after law schools and “law professors.” I also refer to Barack Obama as Pussy Boy.

    How did I smear your beloved Catholic Church?! In the final analysis, your church has tarnished, sullied and ruined its own reputation. Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, I never employed torture, as punishment for “heretics.”

    Your church tortured dissidents and non-believers, including many who had the nerve to express any doubt. (How dare someone point out inconsistencies in doctrine, or freely discuss their misgivings about something based on “faith,” right?! There is no hard proof to support this philosophical/religious belief.) That is HISTORICAL FACT. In your mind, I suppose this is not relevant - since this occurred in the distant past.

    The widespread sexual abuse of minors took place recently. (I doubt that these abuses have stopped entirely.) Again, this is cold, hard fact.

    “Hundreds of crimes against children from the 1960s to the 1990s were not reported while police treated clergy as though they were above the law.

    In a three-year inquiry, the Commission to Inquire into the Dublin Archdiocese uncovered a sickening tactic of ''don't ask, don't tell'' throughout the Church.

    ''The Commission has no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up by the Archdiocese of Dublin and other Church authorities,'' it said.

    ''The structures and rules of the Catholic Church facilitated that cover-up.”

    Your excuse is that no institution run by men is perfect. You are correct, in that assessment. However, doesn’t the church - among other religious institutions/sects - claim that it is governed by God?

    You are well aware that I am going to bitch-slap law schools, at every turn, for consigning adults to a lifetime of debt servitude. Why should I turn the other cheek when a religious institution has murdered untold amounts of people in the past - as well as facilitated the sexual abuse of minors? I have no stake in the matter - other than as a concerned and disgusted observer. Anyway, I am glad that we can at least agree on the law school racket.

  38. Nando,
    I am a huge fan. I am also a vicitim of a similar school. Thank you for your hard work. I was saved a great deal of trouble, money, and agony due to your efforts. My family will assuredly be better off because of your work.

    I cannot tell you enough that you are doing a great thing. I hoped to engage about your view of the church. I understand your views, and I still respect your formidable skill at articulating your ideas.

    Basically, I contend that the church is very big. As an instition comprised of men, men are prone to error. I am not justifiying the sick actions of the animals in Ireland and other places.

    Because they are evil, it does not make everyone evil. Because they are evil, that does not make the church as a whole evil. This might be some variant of a part to whole logic flaw.

    A similar conclusion would be: because Drake is running a scheme and is evil. Nando is alumnus. Therefore Nando is evil.

    I am a catholic who does not condone: evil in the middle ages, evil in the church in Ireland, or evil in the Jesuit American Law Schools.

    Evil must be faced head on. If it is a law school dean making over 300K (like mine-I looked it up after finding this site) or a child abuser. They should be punished.

    I hope you will take time to read over what I put below. Dr. Woods is an intellectual giant. You may have seen his economic work. Here, he touches on you points of contention.

    I follow him regularly in the Libertarian/Austrian Economics Circles (where EPJ was discussing St. Johns today-I tipped you off above). Anyway, the Austrian Economists are huge opponents of what they have termed the "education industrial complex." You have a lot in common with some of Dr. Woods' views. Anyway, I saw Dr. Woods once write something to the effect of: "someone once told me to never confuse a J.D. with an education.

    PB on the Anti-Semitism of the Intellectual

    Dr. Woods on the History of the Church

    Again, Nando, I am a huge fan of your blog. Keep up the good work. I am not trying to fight with you. I just wanted to have a genuine discussion.

  39. Dr. Woods.

  40. I just reread your post. Please, write more on Gonzage, Regent, Baylor or whoever. I was by no means defending these places.

    As always the law school is a HUGE money maker for the school. When I did the research for my place, I estimated that one third of the entire University's operating budget came from the law school's tutiton!

    Keep it up

  41. Law school is for suckers. It may attract type A personlity assholes and geeks. But when it comes right down to it, these morons will gladly shell out $35K a year to go to a subpar law school.

    The ones who excel usually come from lawyer families. They know how to play the game. Those with strong connections can coast through law school. That's how life is too, kids. Such people can skip class, drink during the week and eat pussy to their heart's content. They'll land a decent job regardless of their grades. Studying hard is for poor people.

  42. @ 5:39

    That is 100% right. One of the sections in my class was the sorority/fraternity group. They all came from wealthy families and will likely walk into a cushy position. They never studied. When I walked past their carrels (our desks were arranged by section) they were always empty. The kids were out partying/fucking/having a great time, even on weeknights.

    My section, the loaded scholarship/highest LSAT/highest GPA, were all proles who were desperate to make top 10% There were a few who came from money; their parents were doctors. However, they all had a massive fucking chip on their shoulder because they didn't make the med-school cut. Their section of the library was always full. Even on weekends you would find them furiously outlining and doing practice exams.

  43. The main reason law school tuition is so high IMO is because of law professor salaries. LS tuition helps the university to be sure, but only after the scum professors take their choice cut. The dean at my toilet school makes about 400k + benefits. Tuition is 40k/year, so it takes 10 students to pay for his salary alone. The professors make at least 200k and their numbers are legion.

  44. ^And that is because students are silly enough to pay the high tuition. And that in turn is facilitated by the ease on which one can obtain a student loans. So, why wouldn't law school and higher ed in general charge whatever they want? Get rid of the Federal teat and the higher education bubble implodes in no time. I think student loans should be like any other type of loan: private and eligible to be modified during bankruptcy. If so, I bet no loan officer would approve a loan to attend a TTT.

  45. $39K for one year at this shithole. No thanks. I'd rather get hit by a bus.

  46. Regarding law schools actually teaching law:

    I’ve been out for 12 years and have been making detailed outlines of the areas of law in which I practice. I have acquired and studied deposition and trial transcripts, case briefs, motions, settlement agreements, CLEs, treatises, and the like. These are not just from my cases. I’ve gone on PACER and gotten materials from some of the biggest cases litigated by the best lawyers. I’ve taken this knowledge and made my own personal outlines with checklists and flowcharts to help me practice effectively. I update my outlines constantly.

    Why doesn’t someone make outlines like this and share them with young lawyers? Maybe law professors could go on PACER, like I have, copy documents, and teach in great detail, how the best lawyers win cases. They could then test students’ knowledge of the outlines using Scantron multiple choice exams every three weeks (the way real professors do).

    But they don’t. Law professors are just failed junior associates who write about esoteric bullshit.

    You really learn how to practice law by working at a good firm. It’s hard, but not impossible, to teach yourself. Furthermore, real lawyers hide their knowledge. After all, Coca Cola doesn’t publish its secret formula. Neither do lawyers.

  47. 11:36AM

    Not true. I have a colleague who makes money by having young law grads work for him. They do the grunt work while he sprinkles them with legal knowledge. I believe he charges $2,500 a month and he has 3 recent law grads as paying apprentices. I wish I could do the same but I just don't have the time to teach a new lawyer everything I know.

  48. "I also refer to Barack Obama as Pussy Boy."

    Oooh. Do you also call him Hussein or the Kenyan? Keeping speaking truth to power, Nando.

  49. "... I wish I could do the same but I just don't have the time to teach a new lawyer everything I know.

    May 23, 2011 12:26 PM"

    No offense to your buddy who has apprentices paying him, but I am just glad I found another career. I'll spend the night in a steaming Turkish prison before I pay anyone, ever, to work for them. Ever. No matter who the fuck they are.

    Fuck the sewer-like legal "profession". Glad to be out of it. Total cesspool.

  50. 1:23

    Your boy Barack is a fraud. I can't believe black people in this country were crying when this tool was elected.

  51. I think Barack Obama set a world record for a U.S. President with the most aliases. First it was Barry Soetoro, and today it was released that he may have used Harrison J. Bounel in the past. Given his reluctance to release records of his past and that phony baloney birth certificate that the White House released as part of a staged publicity stunt with Donald Trump (who got a nice $60M deal from NBC which is owned by GE which in turn is a Obama supporter due to his advocacy for carbon taxes & cap and trade), it would not surprise me that the charlatan calling himself the "One" is an illegitimate president.

  52. Barack isn't wven black. He's half-black. Come to think of it, he;s half-white too. It confounds me that the blatant racism of referring to him as half-black is lost on the average stupid fucking American.

  53. Soetoro is not even a US Citizen. He should have been vetted better back in 2008 so it makes me wonder who runs this country. The state of Hawaii cant produce proof he was born in HI and all the Kenyan documents were destroyed. The truth will come out and lets hope he is lead out in handcuffs.

    I agree with the previous poster about paying someone to work for him, especially after paying huge money to get the law degree. That in itself shows how bad the profession is and that law school is a cash grab. Nothing more.

  54. Dear 3rd T Blogger. Wow...three paragraphs and already we have a subject-verb agreement failure. Is it the 3rd tier inclination to accept slackers or do you just not care? You lost me at the first s-v agreement fail (a mistake that is typically cured by the 3rd or 4th year of life). You didn't go to an ABA accredited Law School and I'll bet $1000 that the drafter of this post/blog didn't even pass his 1st year of law school if he even graduated college.... Quit bitching.

  55. What do you want to bet that 10:28 is currently attending the TTT currently being trashed by Nando?

    And since we're discussing grammar rules, here is the rule on verb agreement with percentage according to

    With words that indicate portions—percent, fraction, part, majority, some, all, none, remainder, and so forth —look at the noun in your of phrase (object of the preposition) to determine whether to use a singular or plural verb. If the object of the preposition is singular, use a singular verb. If the object of the preposition is plural, use a plural verb.

    Examples:Fifty percent of the pie has disappeared.
    "Pie" is the object of the preposition.

    Fifty percent of the pies have disappeared.
    "Pies" is the object of the preposition.

    Since Nando is talking about the Class of 2008, which is singular, a singular verb is needed. Which, of course, any three or four year old would know.

  56. The colonel and Nando are the same person! Either that or havin buttsex with each other. Either way I am enjoying this coasta rica vacation and can't wait to start another year of law school. In fact I wish I was there right now. Too bad law books are too heavy to travel with.

  57. First, learn how to spell Costa Rica, idiot.

  58. To the piece of trash calling itself "w.":

    Hello cockroach. If you had an IQ above 70, you would see that Drake University operates an ABA-accredited law school. Hell, you could Google the school, and figure that out in 10 seconds, stupid bitch/lazy pig.

    Apparently, the commode is among the 25 oldest law schools in the nation. This doesn't help the school much, as it is still a third tier toilet.

    I accept your $1,000 bet, you pile of human waste. Moron, I graduated from Third Tier Drake in May 2009. Since you do not have any integrity - and likely do not have $1,000 to your name - I do not expect you to pay up. I would be thrilled to take $1,000, shove it up your ass, and light a match.

    NYT reporter David Segal wrote this indictment on the law school industry, back in January 2011.

    “Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”

    When is the last time YOU were quoted in the New York Times Sunday edition, dicknose?!?!

    Back on July 30, 2010 at 9:24 pm, Professor J. Gordon Hylton at Marquette Law School said the following, about Third Tier Reality:

    “For a thought-provoking (and sobering) blog devoted to the realities of legal education in the 21st century, one should check out Third Tier Reality”

    Check out this law review article, cretin. (As if YOU actually read anything substantive, mental deficient.) The focus of the piece is how the scam-blogs have helped spread the word about this cartel - and attracted the attention of larger media outlets.


    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    May 25 2011 11:50am 8 actions 25m 33s
    May 19 2011 2:11pm 3 actions 1m 23s
    May 18 2011 6:10pm 1 action 8m 55s
    May 18 2011 5:44pm 1 action 10s
    May 18 2011 1:31pm 1 action 10s
    May 18 2011 12:04pm 6 actions 7m 32s
    May 17 2011 9:43am 3 actions 9m 26s
    May 13 2011 6:32pm 3 actions 5m 14s
    May 11 2011 7:32pm 2 actions 3m 44s
    May 11 2011 5:16pm 3 actions 18m 1s
    May 2 2011 5:21pm 6 actions 7m 56s

    This is the crotchsniffer who posted on May 25, 2011 at 11:58 am. As you can see, the moron has plenty of time to post nonsense and drivel - during his supposed Costa Rican vacation. Seeing that he has been viewing this site from San Jose, since at least May 2nd, my guess is this idiot lives down there. Then again, he could be busy blowing various pool boys.

    By the way, the person posing as Col. Sanders appears to be viewing this site from somewhere in Chicago. Also, Costa Rica is not spelled “coasta rica,” Dumbass. Furthermore, you want to be a bitch and talk about subject-verb agreement? You were incorrect, on that count as well. That was a big surprise, huh?

    “Either way I am enjoying this coasta rica vacation and can't wait to start another year of law school.”

    Do you see anything else wrong, with that sentence?!?! Should it be written this way: “Either way, I am enjoying this Costa Rican vacation…”? By the way, make sure to thank Sue Anybody for the grammar lesson, cockroach.

  60. From

    Date Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 2:46 PM
    Subject Re: Impersonation?

    “If you posted this drivel, try to be smarter next time, Aaron Lee Parker. Somehow, this comment landed in my spam folder. I ended up publishing it on my blog. If you make $400K, good for you. Maybe, you can afford a decent haircut the next time you take a firm photo.”

    On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Nando wrote:

    "Ok Nando, time for me to come clean. My name is Aaron, and I am a current associate at Finnegan Henderson in Washington DC. I WILL NOT give you my last name, but I will tell you that I graduated from George Mason University School of Law in 2003. I just messed around on this site because I been disgusted and appalled at the way you continue to degrade the legal profession. You are a joke, as is everyone on this site. You flipped out about every stupid comment that I made, which was my exact intention. In any event, I am earning 400 plus a year, while you spend all day on a blog. Say what you want, but I am a lawyer who made it big, while you failed at becoming a lawyer, just like you do at life. Law school isn't for everyone, but those who pursue law with a passion, live a fulfilling life. I am not going to give me my last name, as I would prefer to remain anonymous. Have fun selling insurance for the next thirty years. Yours truly, Aaron"

    Posted 5-21-11

    “It seems that someone is impersonating you, Aaron.”

    Pussy Aaron Lee Parker never responded to either email. The bitch thought that he was being tough or smart when he - as a George Mason University JD - posted this comment on an entry regarding a law school in Stockton, CA. When I discovered his post in the spam section, and responded to his drivel, Vagina Boy chose to duck and cover. Dumbass should have realized that there is only one listed Finnegan Henderson associate in the DC office named Aaron, BEFORE commenting on this blog.

    I stand by my earlier comment to Aaron Lee Parker - who resides at 2649 S Arlington Ridge Rd, Arlington, VA 22202-2269: if this ass-clown makes $400K per year, then he should be able to afford a decent haircut. You can call this bitch at 703-684-8786, and ask him where he gets his mop cut. Perhaps the same place where he get his bush trimmed?

    Take a look at this idiot’s firm profile. I don’t care if he appears to be a dumb linebacker/caveman; check out the eyebrows and beady snake-eyes. He combs his hair forward!! Is your mother still cutting your hair, bitch?!?! That is a nice “style” - for an eight year old. Seriously, get a haircut, Aaron. I’m sure that you can afford to do so.

  61. I graduated from McGeorge and I view it as the biggest mistake of my life. It is radioactive poison on the resume. I'm not sure if all law school degrees are, but this one is an anti-job-getter. I don't think they have bad intentions, they just function in a world where there are jobs for law school graduates, which is not our world, the one I wake up in every day. After many years of fighting and explaining and humiliating myself in interviews, it just became embarrasing and sinister. My last job was part time night in a hotel front desk. I am presently hopelessly unemployed, something that has become part of my DNA, the way I am in this world. Going to law school destroyed my life and the way I am viewed by others in the job market, eventually seeping into the way all humans see me, as an unemployed failure. I totally understand the anger of this blog.

  62. I agree with the previous poster. I attended McGeorge for one year. After successfully finishing 1L, I saw no reason to continue. Some of my smarter classmates transferred out ASAP! The legal market is not great. I wish I did more research before committing to studying at McGeorge. I wasted a year of tuition plus cost of living, not to mention, my time. Time is precious! Little did I know that it was so hard to even find an unpaid internship coming from McGeorge! People from the bay area usually have NO idea what McGeorge is! Sometimes to make it sound better, I would say that I attended law at University of the Pacific. Those that know about their dental school would have a bit of an idea what the heck UoP is. Anyway, point is, if you want to be an unemployed desperate legal job seeker, a McGeorge grad working a part-time job at Mickey Dee's, or a practicing lawyer in Central Valley or in the middle of nowhere, then go ahead and attend this school!

  63. Most of the people who post on here are irritating and/or pathetic. It's no wonder you can't get a job, with or without a law degree. I thought this website might have some insight on the downfalls of law school, but it's just a place to vent for the socially inept.

  64. To the sensitive pussy/cockroach who posted on December 19, 2011 9:47 pm,

    How is “life” in Everett, Washington, bitch?!?! Your feelings are hurt, because people - backed up with the facts - dare point out that law school is generally a poor investment. Get over it, vagina. Reality does not square with your ignorant opinions and stupid beliefs.

    From analytics:

    IP address:
    IP lookup: ARIN / RIPE
    Unique ID: 1663709306
    First visit: Mon Dec 19 2011 9:36pm
    Visits: 2
    Language: English
    Location: Everett, WA, USA
    Operating system: Windows 7
    Web browser: Google Chrome 16.0
    Resolution: 1280x1024
    Javascript: Enabled

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Dec 19 2011 9:47pm 4 actions 50s
    Dec 19 2011 9:36pm 1 action 10s uop mcgeorge school of law quality

    You can see that this douche-bag is looking into attending this overpriced sewage pit. Hence, the bitch has NO STANDING to tell law graduates about the “strength” of the legal job market. Grow a brain, some balls and a backbone BEFORE commenting here, ass-clown.

    By the way, loser: I am employed full-time in the same job I landed two months after graduating from Third Tier Drake. Learn how to read, moron. That might come in handy, in case you end up working as a doc review monkey.

  65. Nando,

    With my 97 Pacific McGeorge degree, I've been a solo practitioner making $60-$130k each year. The income fluctuates, but even in a bad year, I'm still making $5k minimum average per month.

    Yes, there are very few jobs for Pacific grads, unless you're at the top of the class. I was forced to open my own shingle, but now I consider it the best move I've made. The main reason is because I can work my own schedule and work under 40 hours per week.

    How did I do it? Admittedly, Pacific taught me nothing about practicing law...I didn't even know the most basics of civil practice. But I started reading many self-help books, self-practice guides, etc., and just took on my first case like that. I figured if I screwed up, I'd be disbarred, but if I did nothing I would starve. But it worked out, and I've handled many small cases, and even the occassional $million dollar defenses, etc.

    Throughout the way, I've opposed some of the top lawyers/firms in the S. California market as a solo. By the way, in Northern and Southern Cal., Pacific McGeorge is highly regarded.

    Yes, the law job market sucks, but its not hopeless. Many average people can't afford biglaw, or even need to fight people/corps. with biglaw representation, but can't afford it.
    People...there's your niche.

    I felt bad reading the blog from 11-22-11, and maybe this advice will help.

    If you really want to be a lawyer, a Pacific McGeorge degreed shingle, backed by solid competence (remember the St. Bar), is not a bad deal.

    But all in all, I agree with most of what you say...there's too many law schools. But for those that have already gone through it, or are locked-in to graduation, there's really alot of opportunities still available to be a very happy, successful, practicing lawyer.

    Go McGeorge!

  66. I graduated from McGeorge in 2008.

    I worked hard, got decent grades and scholarships. I ended up with about $73k in student loans for tuition.

    I had a plan for the kind of legal job that I wanted and got such a job starting at $80k a year. I now make more than that. You do the math, to me it was worth it.

    The students that incur $130k in student loans typically made unwise decisions such as spending $4 on a Starbucks coffee and $10 going out to eat for lunch. In my opinion that's ridiculous to borrow money to go out to eat, buy nice cars, etc. but that is what a lot of this student loan money is going for whether people admit it or not.

    I also have a lot of friends from law school that took jobs working for the government either with the state govt, the military, DA's or public defenders. All of them are making low monthly payments towards their student loans but are in government programs that will pay back 100% of their loans after 10 years.

    Some of my friends were laid off initially in 2008 but were able to find legal jobs again after some hard looking. But how is this different from any other type of job for those graduating in 2008.

    Overall I had good experiences I McGeorge and would do it again.

  67. There have been several comments arguing that a solution to problems with law school is to lower tuition and to shorten the length of time required to graduate.

    I am a law school grad and I too do not think that 3 years is necessary and I sure don't like paying back all of my student loans.

    However, if law school was cheaper and shorter, then we would have even more of an over-abundance of attorneys out there. A different solution is required.

  68. “I think it is more than fair to say that worldwide, over the last 40 years, (1) there has been a marked increase of college graduates in rough proportion to overall population; (2) tuition for undergrad and graduate school has skyrocketed, whether measured in real or adjusted dollars; (3) middle-class incomes have stagnated, and (4) the overall economy has suffered.
    phlebotomy training in california

  69. The USA should only have 50-100 law schools max. The ABA is fucking up the profession in the USA.

  70. The decision to go to law school has destroyed my life. I graduated from McGeorge in 2006 and have basically paid nothing on a $170k bill. I feel trapped and would do anything to take the decision back. Do not go to this school. It is a disgusting institution.

    Enough whining. I think that the angle here is for everyone who has been duped by the law school lie and others like them to push really hard for bankruptcy reform. We are not going to see a magic turnaround in the job market in this hopeless shithole of a country. We can only hope that some of this crushing debt (not all of course) can become dischargeable in bankruptcy.

  71. Dear Anonymous who wrote on Oct 31, 2013,

    I absolutely agree with you. The ABA has screwed up our profession. By the way, I am a UOP McGeorge grad who is a partner in respectable law firm and make over 250K a year but I know I am anomaly and I don't work in the USA. Future law students beware....I shit you not if you don't come from a top 20 law school or where the law school tuition is very cheap, you are venturing down a very dangerous road....

  72. I am submitting my application this week, I work full time for the County of Sacramento and want to attend their part time evening class. Based on comments this confirms my plan if I do get in and choose to go their, to transfer out at the end of the year into a better school and leave my county job to go to a 3 yr program instead of doing 4. I really didn't realize it was this bad, makes me wish I did better on my LSAT


Web Analytics