Monday, June 27, 2011

Fourth Tier Stack of Humid Excrement: University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law

Tuition: For D.C. residents, full-time tuition at UDC School of Law was only $8,850, for 2010-2011. Non-residents - including those living in Maryland or Virginia - full-time tuition totaled $17,700, for the same school year. Apparently, the bitches are unable or unwilling to list the rates for the school year that starts in less than two months. (I can already hear apologist cockroaches chirping, “That is a cheap! Why are going after this school?” Read the entire entry, and you will see why I am flushing this foul commode.)

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same page, students fees; health insurance; laptop computer; transportation; books/supplies; rent; utilities; food; and personal expenses will add up to $31,096. As you can see, for DC residents, this brought the total COA to $39,946; for non-residents, this figure was $49,296- due to an additional $500 in transportation costs.

Keep in mind that sewers of law only take nine-month living expenses into account. In reality, a law student will require living expenses over twelve months. Considering these expenses, a more accurate, total COA for District of Columbia residents amounted to $48,712 - for 2010-2011. For non-residents, this figure reached $58,229, last year. This commode doesn’t look so “affordable” any more, does it?!?!

Ranking: This school is located in the nation’s capital. This will give one access to those in positions of power, right?!?! Think of all the doors a UDC law degree will open! Wait a minute. US “News” & World Report lists this as a fourth tier piece of trash.

Employment and Starting Salary Statistics: Seeing that the trash pit does not provide placement data, we go to Law School Numbers, for this info. Towards the bottom of the page, you can see that 82% of the JD Class of 2005 was employed, within nine months of graduation. In light of the “new” economy, imagine what the rate would be now.

In addition, take a look at the LSAT and UGPA scores of enrolled students. For the Class of 2009, the 25th percentile UGPA was 2.8, whereas the 75th percentile grade point average was 3.3. For this same class, the 25th percentile LSAT score was 149 - and the those who scored 153 landed in the 75th percentile. Yes, this school is really looking out for its students, and not filling them with false hope, right?!?!

As a student at this fourth tier pile of steaming waste, you can participate in the Housing & Consumer Law Clinic!! Good luck representing clients in illegal rent increases and eviction cases. While many are decent people down on their luck, don’t be surprised when your client is another deadbeat bum who hasn’t paid his rent in six months. (Somehow, the bastard will still have money for alcohol and satellite TV.)

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the University of D.C. JD Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $24,889. Fully 83% of this public commode’s 2010 graduating class took on such debt, for a TTTT law degree. This figure does not take undergrad debt into account. Remember that this is an “average” debt load, which means that some people took out $100K - for their worthless credential. In addition, these students still pissed away three years of their lives and lost income, on this scatological endeavor.

The sewage pit wants you, as a lemming, to imagine:

“…studying law in Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, at a law school that offers internship opportunities with various government, non-profit, and private law firms and offices that make D.C. their headquarters.”

Let’s not become sentimental. This is an important financial decision, that can change the course of your life. Do you want to be strapped down with a mountain of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - because some cockroach in the school’s marketing department played to your naiveté and idealism?

The fact is that various government agencies and non-profits are more than happy to take advantage of your free labor. If you attend a TTTT, do not expect any of these internships to turn into actual job offers, upon graduation. Think of this “relationship” in the following terms: just because some lovely society woman let you put her ankles behind her ears a few times, do not anticipate that she will leave her wealthy, connected husband for your broke ass.

Conclusion: Who gives a damn if this is the only public law school located in the nation’s capital?! There are seven law schools located in the District of Columbia. Do you think that YOU will have a chance in hell competing for jobs against law students and JDs from Georgetown, UVA, Duke, Harvard, etc?! What makes this place revolting is that it exploits the dreams and goals of minority men and women, of modest means. If you do not have STRONG business, family or political connections - and do not come from a wealthy background - then your odds of landing a decent legal job upon graduation from a TTTT are extremely slim.


  1. Is this prestigious institution for students who couldn't get into Howard, or is it the other way around?

    Anyhow, the Colonel will probably be along later to explain how you can use your UDC degree in the DC market.

    1. UDC Law is a public interest law school that requires all students to do extensive clinical work - meaning representing real people, most of whom are poor, and many of whom have problems beyond the legal arena. It was actually created by a grassroots campaign in 1986. It trains people to fight for people's rights, to be public defenders, legal service lawyers - and small or solo practitioners who serve the little guy While many graduates end up making good livings, no one should go to UDC Law with the thought of being hired by a big firm. That's not what the place is for. The tuition is low enough that if you live inexpensively, you need not rack up massive debt - and you should not if you want to be a public interest lawyer.

  2. Well done, Nando. Somebody needs to stop the madness, and you are one of the few braves ones doing that.

    It's absolutely awful what law schools charge for what one can potentially get. Costs have gotten completely out of control. Take a look at this 1st Tier piece of shit: Fordham Law. By their own "massaged" calculation, the cost of attendance for 2011-12 is 73573, and 47360 of that corresponds to tuition.

    The lemmings that attend this place are not "dumb." Their LSATs are in the 167-164 range. Granted, some of them get scholarships; but what scholarship could possibly cover the monstrous nearly 75K cost of attendance? If you attend Fordham at sticker and find yourself 220K in debt at graduation, I am not sure if even a Big Law job is enough to get you out of the hole. But the school doesn't care. Not its problem anymore.

  3. By far one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made. That's what I get for falling back on "get a law degree" myth, especially from this dump of school. However, if you don't mind taking a year and half to learn what most school teach in the first semester of 1L year than by all means waste your money. This is of course because of the dearth of electives you could take to keep to your law school career somewhat interesting. But if you like classes taught by professors with ethics violations in their previous fields of employment I welcome to you try it out. If you find working with the public as a broke attorney (since you'll eventually need some of the same services your not only helping clients you're doing some personal research) or doing document review to subsist then be my guest. Also, let me not forget to mention that whenever somebody decides to ask you where you go to school don't forget the small ball of pride you swallow each time you have to explain what and where "UDC" is with the hope that it being located in the country's capital, that it will somewhat justify why you attend the worst law school in DC. I implore you if this is your only option and you really love law be a paralegal. Less debt and more options.

    1. Have to agree. As an alumni of DCSL I am so ashamed of its reputation I never tell people I even have a JD. I got into the school with a pitiful LSAT but a decent undergrad GPA. I found the profs and administration to be sub-par (I am being kind). Most fellow students were same as me only law school to accept them (my guess, from experience is the same with the profs). But the smart ones completed first year then easily transfer to better school. As an "older" student the demographics of the school was a good fit. Besides basic study of law the clinical work was underwhelming (seriously I had to represent a "client" appealing a denied SSDI claim.....His disability was he was a DRUNK. Then when we/I LOST the appeal I was chastised by profs and fellow students????? He was a DRUNK folks not disabled according to SS regs. To be fair I did have a couple good profs and a few good clinical expierences. However, a large part of my 3 years was spent "begging" local and govt officials for funding for the school and then reach out to alumni to continue the "begging". A running joke with a close friend who also attended, graduated, and could not get legal job is that if he annoys me I will let the school know his address:) Also, to be fair I think ALL law schools proffer a load of crap about their educational profile. If you don't have a guarantee of employment after receiving JD then law school biggest benefit is bolstering your resume.

  4. I would say Howard is above this place, especially for Af-Am students. I think some of the BigLaw firms actually recruit Howard when they want to hire a minority. Plus there's history there.

    DC, along with Massachusetts, is the poster child for when there's no need for a public law school. What chance do these grads have? The most lawyer-saturated place on Earth and they're gunning against like 20 schools who place in D.C. Pointless.

  5. *most schools teach
    *could take to keep your
    *welcome you to try it out

    excuse my errors

    and yes if you are black take your ass across the street to Howard and get paid

  6. I am a tenured professor at UDC School of Law, and frankly, I am angered and appalled at the blatant disrespect you show this school. How DARE YOU! UDC is a fine institution of higher learning and I REFUSE to sit back and keep my mouth shot. I highly suggest that you cease posting such diatribe, because there can and will be serious consequences for your actions. DISBAN this site immediately. You have been warned.

    UDC School of Law tenured professor

    1. Proffesor says

      "keep my mouth shot."

      Please tell me you aren't in the writing program.

    2. Just keep your "mouth shot"! Without schools like this you'd be just another unemployed person with a JD. I'd venture to say that when asked "what do you do for a living?" Your reply is "prof at law school in DC" and hope to hell you DON'T have to name the school............

    3. What kind of a douchebag so called "tenured professor" tells someone to keep their mouth shot? Did this individual mean keep your mout hshut? What an idiot, buthtne again I guess that is what you expect from UDC.
      A joke of a "community college" parading itself as a university. What's even more sad is the fact that this pile of dung heap institution has the nerve to have an actual "communtiy college" right down the street from Union Station and the Post Office. It is basically a building on the corner of a street with no real value or purpose. Last news I heard was the idiots in the UDC administration wanted to have the mayor and DC taxpayers pay to fire the teachers at the Community College. WTF? UDC should have lost it's accredidation a long time ago. Not only with that idiot college president who was involved with the money scandal but for the mere fact that an actual clown college has more prestige than this crappy school in DC. UDC What A Joke!

    4. In response to the douchebag "tenured UDC School of Law professor" you should be embarrassed you are tenured at the University of Dumb Children. First of all we have constitutional rights, and ghw Original Poster/ Author who wrote this for this site is entitled to express themselves about their disgust of UDC just like you are entitled to express your ignorance as a tenured professor at the University of Dumb Children. Also for someone who claims to be a so called tenured law professor you truly are a retard in every sense considering you "keep your mouth shot".............WTF?!?!?!?! Well I guess you are product of the school your douchebag retarded self got your tenure from.

  7. weak troll. You get an F+ for trying.

  8. UDC is the worst of the DC schools. You are below Gtown, Gdub, American, Catholic, and Howard. Not to mention the T-10 grads from Yale, Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Duke, and UVA who no doubt want to work there too.


    The piece of moist garbage who is trying to pass himself as a UDC law professor is a TOTAL FRAUD. This bitch earlier claimed to be an American U. Commode of Law grad, from the Class of 2008, who is now making $120K per year in DC Biglaw.

    From the pig’s February 21, 2011 1:22 pm comment:

    “Alright guys, I lied and I am sorry. I am currently a professor at the University of D.C school of law.”

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
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    Somebody needs a girlfriend, and a life. You should try dating women, ass-clown. They generally smell nice, make good companions, and they have hairy orifices called vaginas. (I realize that you prefer to go down on homeless men, but you should give this a shot.)

  10. I was wondering when you would get around to this mixen pit. I affectionately refer this place as the Clark Griswold School of Law because it is as close as you will get to a lampoon of a law school. I can't believe kids actually enroll there. Don't these kids realize that paying to go this school is almost as dumb as paying $5 for the Brooklyn Bridge? The bridge is actually a better deal because paying $5 for a lesson to wisen up is better than paying over $150K and 3 years of your life to realize the same.

  11. If you are a racial minority and you want a chance at practicing law in D.C.? Go to Howard. Or G'town or UVA if you have a great scholarship. Listen. I don't have anything against AA admits taking all the money they can. I know some people will get all pissed about that. Why take on a bunch of loans for a law degree. Also consider this. Large corporations accept tax refunds and corporate welfare. Rich people gladly take deductions and tax refunds, even though they don't need it.

  12. Yes, this toilet is the pits of the pits, prestige-wise. However, there are two points from the profile that deserve approval:

    (1) their in-state tuition is in the neighborhood of reasonable;

    (2) they boast of a consumer and housing law clinic rather than a nationally-known faculty of experts in areas of scholarly flatulence such as critical race and gender theory or having the country's fifth best Journal of Space Law.

    As a person who had a brutally expensive shit education at a First Tier, I congratulate this prestigeless toilet on these two features.

    There has to be a new model of legal education, focusing on the practical. Kids are too poor and prospects are too dim for the old Paper Chase model of "training our minds" by forcing students to plow through fat caselaw books and endure classroom bullying that calls itself the Socratic method.

    The first year should consist of reading hornbooks and outlines from core subjects to learn the basics fast, plus classes in legal writing and research. The second year should consist entirely of clinics and externships, taught by adjunct local practitioners, to teach the students how to run an office, how to do circuit court gruntwork, how to try a case, and how to write an appeal. The third year can be eliminated.

    I believe that if DC Law had such a model, its graduates would kick the asses of GW, W&L, and Georgetown grads in court, notwithstanding the fact that they scored lower on the LSAT.

    1. Thank you. I'm going to graduate from DCSL. I had a 3.5 undergrad GPA and a 159 on the LSAT. I got into better schools, where tuition alone was around $40k/year. I chose the school because their tuition is cheap, and DC is a great area. Yes, the cost of living expense raises indebtedness, but cost of living must be accounted for at any university, adding around $15-$30k extra to any university.

      And let's face it: law school is a largely autodidactic experience. We read the same text books as other law schools, the same hornbooks, and the outlines. How well students master material is always a function of how much work they put in.

      Our model is a foundation the first year and first semester of the second, followed by two semesters of intensive clinical experience. Specifically, 700 billable hours of work as student attorneys in various areas. I billed 350 hours in their legislation clinic, taught by Bob Burgdorf, the author of the ADA. I drafted bills for D.C. Council's committee of the whole that became D.C. Law. I later logged 400 hours as a student attorney resolving tax liabilities for low income taxpayers in the LITC Clinic under Charles Jeane, an excellent professor and expert in the field with years clerking at the US Tax Court. I have a CAF number with the IRS, authorizing me to practice law. LITC was an incredibly practical learning experience and I now have confidence based on knowledge that I can resolve tax liabilities for clients after graduation.

      The students that graduate from this school know their stuff. They are hard-working and intelligent people. Many of them pursue government jobs, public interest work, are sole practitioners, or decide to pursue other employment options a JD offers. The stats therefore are not a complete truth. Likewise, many of the people pursuing alternative career paths do so because they decided to, not because they couldn't find work. And keep in mind these individuals are not sitting for Bar exams, and the passage stats as percentages of the graduating class will be lower on that account.

      A DCSL grad has a minimum of 740 hours of practice in the legal profession, excluding internships. I have closer to 1200 with my internships experiences (at the Global Affairs Office of the EPA and with a social media startup). Many students have actual court experience, and our clinic program is 10th in the nation. These students know how to practice law.

      It's unfortunate that traditionally employers hire based on school rankings and statistics. Under this model, DCSL students will be stigmatized for having that name on their JD, making it harder to find employment. But that's what you pay (a substantially higher amount) for in a higher tier school: the wow factor of a name.

      I'm not saying other schools aren't better, or that DCSL doesn't have faults. My only point here is that the school doesn't make the student, and students from DCSL are experienced, intelligent, and hard-working. They would make great additions to any law firm.

      So any readers of this article, if you're considering which law school to go to, and if you'll be worth your salt as an attorney in the future, employ some critical thinking here and don't let the above author's creative ways of describing feces scare you away from an inexpensive and entirely adequate law school.

      We just got a new building with state-of-the-art classrooms, and I'm proud to say I've seen the school improve vastly over my three years in attendance.

      And the bottom line is this: if you can't persuasively argue to a potential employer in support of your decision to attend an inexpensive ABA-accredited school located in the nation's capital with the 10th best clinical program in the nation, they maybe becoming a lawyer isn't the right decision for you.

    2. Dumbass Sean Carpenter,

      New law school buildings do not translate into legal employment.

      On June 25, 2012, the Wall Street Journal published Joe Palazzolo's piece "Law Grads Face Brutal Job Market." Check out this excerpt:

      "The data analysis showed:

      Only about 8% of 2011 graduates landed full-time, long-term jobs at larger firms with more than 250 attorneys.

      Just a dozen schools reported that 80% or more of graduates found full-time, long-term legal jobs. The top five included the University of Virginia (95%), Columbia University (94%), Stanford University (91%), New York University (90%) and Harvard University (90%).

      More than 20 schools reported that fewer than 40% of their graduates had secured such jobs. The bottom five included Whittier College (17%), University of the District of Columbia (21%), Golden Gate University (22%), Thomas Jefferson School of Law (27%) and Western New England University (30%).

      Several deans say the data paint a bleaker picture of their schools than justified. In a sluggish economy, smaller firms are less likely to take a chance on recent grads, says Penelope Bryan, dean of Whittier Law School in Orange County, Calif. Instead, she says, they may hire graduates on a contract or part-time basis before making offers."

      Yes, 21 percent of the UDC David A. Clarke Sewer of Law Class of 2011 landed full-time, long term legal employment. What a great "accomplishment," huh?!?!

      Also, non-law employers typically do not give a damn about your clinical experience. How does representing broke-ass clients - in a controlled setting - help businesses sell services and products?!?!

      If you are a prospective law student, look at law school STRICTLY AS A FINANCIAL DECISION. Review the evidence showing that fourth tier law schools produce garbage employment prospects for their recent graduates. Do not be foolishly persuaded by ass-hats such as Sean Carpenter who want you to buy into the pigs' argument. Hell, the moron didn't even address the fact that the DC lawyer job market is GLUTTED.

    3. I don't know where you went to school "Nando" but it seems like the law school you attended is the one to stay away from.

    4. If you learned how to read, you would see that I graduated from Third Tier Drake, located in Des Moines, Iowa. The school is currently ranked 109th by US "News" & World Report. Your trash pit is still listed in the FOURTH TIER of ABA-accredited law schools, by that same publication.

      Students should avoid 90 percent of the commodes, at a minimum, Bitch. In fact, some of my readers think that I am too lenient. Some have argued - on this site and other forums - that students should avoid every law school except for Harvard, Yale and Stanford.

    5. No where in your article do you mention where you went to law school. You are as dumb as you sound.

      I didn't go to UDC for law school, but I certainly would have over any school in Iowa. Do the internet a favor and stop writing.

    6. Hello cockroach.

      Under the subheading "About Me" - on the right side of this blog, Stupid - you will find the following:

      "I am a graduate of Drake Law School. I am employed in a non-lawyer position. My goal is to educate people who are considering law school as a viable option. Do not go unless you are FULLY aware beforehand that you may end up with six figure student loan debt and no job prospects. Furthermore, you will find it very difficult to find work as a non-lawyer, as your J.D. will make you overqualified for most non-law positions."

      That description has been on this site from its inception, mental midget. As such, it appears on the side of each blog entry, you ignorant piece of trash.

      Lastly, if you did not attend Fourth Tier UDC, then why are you so invested in defending this steaming dung heap?! Do yourself and the world a favor, and learn how to write. For instance, "nowhere" is one word. Second graders are aware of this fact, Bitch. You also need to develop some basic reading comprehension skills, waterhead. You are dismissed.

  13. The debt doesn't seem that bad. Do non-legal jobs in DC hold anything against someone with a law degree? Because very few of these students is going to practice law. (Chasing ambulances and representing slip 'n falls is not a great way to make a living in this world.)

  14. @11:13: I hope you are a troll. However in the event you are not:

    - Not many law firms will not accept a JD for a legal professional position (i.e. Paralegal, Legal Assistant, Law Clerk). Only time I see JD's welcomed if the law office makes an exception and Bar results are pending (imagine joining a firm and after you accepted the position, you flunked the Bar!).

    - There are some in-house positions that will make an exception and hire JD's for contract administration assistant, litigation analyst, and complex claims adjusters. However do not expect to earn six figure salaries with those positions. I know one JD who works for ACE Insurance and only earns $65K in NYC (which is nothing if you want to live in NYC or near-by Westchester County and you have to pay off that student loan), mind you this guy has also been with ACE for three years now. I also briefly worked in a brokerage firm last year and one analyst who graduated and pass the NY Bar said he was patiently waiting for the market to improve so he could work as an attorney (kid was a Fordham grad to boot).

    I can't speak for the DC market, but I know for a fact in NY, it's hard as hell to market yourself as a JD/non-lawyer, especially if you do not have experience and your school is seriously low ranked (think Cooley, Touro). Most places would also prefer an experienced paralegal to avoid the threat of some newly minted attorney getting disgusted in not being able to lawyer and make decisions (like the financial analyst I briefly worked with).

    Personally, I would not recommend law school (or even paralegal certificate that will cost you $10K+ for that matter) to any OL unless you have connections and you KNOW that someone has a spot for you when you graduate and pass the bar. The cost of tuition and the tight market is too much of a risk for anyone to take on that kind of debt.


  15. Back AGAIN?lmfao! I find this guy who poses as a UDC professor hilarious. Someone has too much time on their hands! Lay in traffic or something, that would be a more productive use of your time.

  16. Here's another suggestion for the UDC tenured prof:

    go suck a bag of dicks.

  17. Saw the picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg posed with UDC law students. Love how they sell that.

    Don't think she's an alum, though.

  18. UDC law = shit.

    These guys are taking advantage of idealistic minorities that are seeking upward mobility. Those wanting social justice might enroll here, and maybe not take out too much debt. (I suspect you'll find grads with $100K in debt from this toilet). Even so they've given up 3 years of income for a shitty law degree.

  19. I agree with Nando on this one. Tuition may seem reasonable but not when you factor in the high cost of living in D.C. Add in the competition element and this school definitely deserves to be highlighted.

  20. 10:41, having experienced the "Socratic Method" myself and feeling I got absolutely, positively NOTHING from the experience, I am in total agreement.

    The model is broken; if not, it is the academic equivalent of the Model T.

  21. Off Topic:

    I hope Warren Buffet spends eternity screaming in never ending pain, and in Hell for all of his crimes against Humanity.

    And I hope Warren Buffet thinks of JD Painterguy on his deathbed, as he draws his last, rattling breath, and as his miserable old carcass gives up the ghost, someday.

    Hopefully sooner than later.

    Death comes to us all. To Bartleby, and to kings and to counselors.

    Anyway, this is all written in the name of art and satire, so no offense to the miserable asshole known as Warren Buffet. Really.

    Ah, Bartleby! Ah, humanity!

  22. JD Painter is a poet. Warren Buffet is a miserable cocksucker, btw.

    What was I gonna say? Oh yeah. That turd is disgusting. And I have a high tolerance for this stuff. But goddamn!

  23. ^^^^ Off Topic:

    Gee, what else is new? Painter going off-topic!


  24. @6:39, I have to chime in on this one regarding Fordham and I hope within time Knut can write a post about this poor excuse of a 1T school.

    I had the displeasure in working with a Fordham grad briefly. This attorney knew nothing, I repeat N-O-T-H-I-N-G. It was embarrassing to read his reports and correspondence, let alone have to always explain to this guy that you cannot immediately move for summary judgment after you just served your answer unless you positively, undeniably can prove that the plaintiff is full of shit to have your case thrown out. He also made his paralegal do all the work for him (nothing against his paralegal, but this dude really did nothing because he often could not find where his ass and elbow were located). I'm not sure if this guy is still practicing because he would bitch daily how much he hated being an attorney, and how much he hated life.

    I know this has little to do with this TTTT poop pile, but 1T schools should not get an easy pass either. Like TTT and TTTT these higher ranked schools have its fair share of dumb grads too, and the tuition is completely through the roof. Someone has to put the kibosh on law schools in charging so damn much.

  25. @7:07, agreed. Last I checked, Ann Coulter is a fucking non-factor as well. Cool that this dude blogs on the side, but I could not give a flying fuck about this dude's poetry on TTR.

  26. whats next? Jack Clark University School of Law? San Francisco over St. Louis I hope.

  27. I sent this to the ABA yesterday.

    Ten Reasons Why I Hate the ABA.

    1) I hate the ABA because you have done a horrible job in keeping the quality of law schools high. People with a 2.8 GPA and 152 LSAT score should not be allowed to go to law school;

    2) The ABA uses stupid metrics for accrediting a law school. Full time professors doing scholarly research adds nearly zero value;

    3) The ABA cares nothing about if a law student can perform basic legal services; so stupid, would you let a dentist graduate without doing a filling;

    4) The ABA concentrates on feel good issues like serving the poor, but is blind and deaf to the number of law students that are being made indentured slaves due to high tuition and poor employment opportunities;

    5) Every applicant to the Bar is supposed to have good moral character, but the ABA does not have a problem with law schools luring people in with fraudulent employment statistics;

    6) When the ABA is asked about limiting law schools, it cites anti-trust concerns. Why not require higher standards, not the stupid and irrelevant criteria currently used;

    7) The ABA is the worst trade association, the ABA is like the anti-trade association;

    8) The ABA concentrates on a lot of trivial issues and ignores serious problems;

    9) I hate the ABA because law school in its current form is a waste of time;

    10) If law schools were truly doing their job, there would be practical training on a small class size basis, but law schools love the current model of packing in the students, in large lecture halls at 45K a year. The only thing a new law school graduate is qualified to do upon graduation is potentially commit malpractice if they try to perform a legal service without supervision.

    The ABA should be ashamed.

  28. WHy is there a public law school in DC? Aren't there about 10 law schools in the area? At this rate why don't we just make another law school for left-handed students?

  29. We should start a letter campaign asking the Dept of Education to take away the law school accreditation and overseer power from the ABA.

  30. Shame is for those with conscience or a moral compass. The ABA shitlings have neither. So good luck trying to shame them.

  31. From a school I was looking at: Every student who graduates from the X School of Law will receive a Juris Doctorate, opening up a world of employment opportunities, as an attorney, law professor, business person, or wherever you imagine your career is taking you.

    So, why is Nando saying otherwise? Please enlighten us, please :)

    I don't get how one person's logic can defeat the logic of a whole educational system that is the pillar of our modern world.

  32. ... -3-states/

    Uh oh! Washington DC actually has a negative surplus of lawyers. Looks like there is actually NOT ENOUGH LAW SCHOOLS IN DC instead of too many. DC NEEDS LAWYERS. WTF, Nando, ENLIGHTEN US PUHLEEEEEASE!!!!!

  33. It really is amazing how these schools continue to operate. It seems so obvious if you have already woken up, but for some it is still easier to drink the Kool Aid. Be warned....

  34. Paul may be drinking the Kool Aid, and might not be wanting to share it. It comes in so many fun flavors. Maybe he is pretending to believe Nando because he posts pictures of poop that comes in 2 flavors: moist and dry.

    Maybe I am drinking the Kool Aid because it's actually Ambrosia. Maybe I am glad I went to law school. Maybe it's the best decision I ever made.

  35. @6 am:

    sure. flawed study used bar exam as metric. d.c. is easy to waive bar exam, so many out of state kids (VA, MD, NY, MA, etc.) aren't included. include them and d.c. is as saturated as any other big city.

  36. ^^^Agree.

    The real take home message of the study is this: 25K yearly positions for about 50K job seekers.

    That's as bad as it gets.

  37. "I don't get how one person's logic can defeat the logic of a whole educational system that is the pillar of our modern world."

    Point is that degrees today are EXPEN$$IVE and you must pay off that loan if you do not have $$$ to pay for your education while you are attending school. In today's US, It will cost you anywhere from $15K-$35K for a damn professional certificate, between $40K-$70K for a UG, and anywhere between $98K-$250K for a JD or a MBA (not including COLE, rent/board, school fees, *and* books). Add to that, there are not enough of jobs to sustain the numbers of new graduates looking for work once they enter into the job market(thanks in part to Boomers being unable to retire, outsourcing, and competing against more experienced work force which has been effected by downsizing).

    You do realize that student loan debt cannot be claimed in bankruptcy nor payments can be deferred? You really have to be kidding when you wonder why scam-bloggers take such serious issue with higher academia today.

  38. But Income based repayments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  39. The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%
    Unbannable IP since 2011



    To the piece of trash from Chicopee, MA, i.e. the mental deficient who posted at 5:56 am, 6:00 am, 6:37 am, and 9:28 am:

    We know that you get less action than a 5th grader, but do you need to announce that to the world? Check out Pussy Boy’s comment on this thread:

    "Anonymous said...

    I am the piece of waste. I am not scared to tell you about my credentials. institution. WNEC, class rank: top 18%, section 2, LSAT score 153, Undergrad GPA 3.2, Law GPA 3.14.

    June 27, 2011 9:41 AM"

    Yes, you are a piece of waste. As someone else pointed out, the white spot on top of bird crap is bird crap also. Congratulations, bitch. By the way, a 3.2 UGPA is pathetic – even for you. On June 27, 2011 at 1:39 pm, dumbass wrote:

    “I am married, but I am not working this summer as I have had a tough time finding work.”

    Everyone can see what top “18 percent” at We$TTTTern New England College Sewer of Law will land them: on the unemployment line. Actually, you need to lose a job BEFORE you can file for benefits, bitch. By the way, it does feel good to own a house and pay my bills.

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Jun 28 2011 9:20am 9 actions 10m 41s
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    Jun 27 2011 6:14am 8 actions 4m 40s
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    Jun 26 2011 2:41pm 2 actions 8m 46s
    Jun 26 2011 2:10pm 3 actions 11m 55s
    Jun 26 2011 1:42pm 1 action 8m 40s
    Jun 26 2011 10:28am 1 action 8m 40s
    Jun 26 2011 10:15am 1 action 10s


  43. That troll got rolled. Don't poke the mean pitbull with a stick. Didn't your mother teach you better? Dumbshit.

  44. "From a school I was looking at: Every student who graduates from the X School of Law will receive a Juris Doctorate, opening up a world of employment opportunities, as an attorney, law professor, business person, or wherever you imagine your career is taking you.
    June 28, 2011 5:56 AM:"

    Sorry, but that is bullshit. The non-elite JD is utterly USELESS outside the practice of law. Non-law employers (whom you WILL be dealing with after graduating from one of these sewers, unless you hit the top 10% of the class) will be overwhelmingly and contemptuously unimpressed by your JD, UNLESS said JD is accompanied by significant experiences, contacts and connections that you are capable of bringing on board.

    The non-elite JD is a very dangerous degree to get right now; not only is it expensive, but it will, most unfortunately, disqualify you from most other endeavors, and non-law employers are repelled by the JD and highly suspicious of anyone having one who is not practicing law, unless fitting one of the above caveats.

    So please spare us the bullshit about the versatility of the law degree. It is a rock tied about the neck, as I have unfortunately experienced.


    "Why is a law degree not versatile?

    Let me count the ways.

    For one thing, it costs about $180k. Anything that leaves you two hundred grand in a hole is not increasing your “versatility” – it’s trapping you in hell.

    For another thing, studying arcane legal doctrine for three years (a purely arbitrary number) leaves you with no translatable skills. The arcane legal doctrine you learn in law school isn’t even useful at a law firm, let alone anywhere else.

    And let’s talk about the “skills” a lawyer “hones” in his “profession.”

    A litigator is about the worst thing you can be if you want to do anything else. Why? Let’s examine the skills you “master” as a litigator.

    Pumping up billables. Dragging out discovery. Dreaming up and laboriously penning pointless motions to create delay. Behaving in an oddly aggressive and hostile manner at meetings that end in a standstill. Organizing complicated information into folders, and folders of folders and labeling everything and organizing that into lists, and lists of lists, then billing for it by the hour. Researching recondite issues and writing memos you’re not even sure you understand. Wrapping your head around Byzantine procedural rules and forum and jurisdictional niceties and arbitrary court filing deadlines, all so you can trip up the other side with needless delay and expense.

    Okay. Now translate those skills into the real world, where people make products and sell useful services.

    See my point?"

    This advice is from former Biglaw associate Will Meyerhofer. If I wanted advice about the versatility of a JD, should I go with someone with an NYU law degree – and who practiced Biglaw - or some delusional ass-hat/law student at Western New England College School of Law?!?!


    “In 1998, a new grant of provisional ABA accreditation was awarded to the University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law, and in 2004, the School of Law applied for full accreditation. The School of Law received full ABA accreditation on August 8, 2005 with a unanimous vote of the ABA House of Delegates.”

    As you can see, this piece of waste was originally called Antioch School of Law – and was created in 1972. However, it did not receive full ABA accreditation until August 8, 2005. Yes, what a success story, huh?!?!

    On May 3, 2010, the school was gloating about its massive “accomplishments”:

    “US New's analysis also found that UDC was tied for second in the nation in overall diversity of its law students and had the fifth highest percentage of African American students (29%). Considering the exceedingly high rankings for both clinical quality and diversity, Dean Shelley Broderick said, "US News has confirmed what many already know - that the UDC David A. Clarke School of Law is meeting its mission to recruit and enroll students from groups underrepresented in the legal profession and to train them as lawyers through a program of rigorous clinical legal education. Each year our law students and faculty provide 85,000 hours of service each year to low-income District residents and the agencies that serve them."

    Too bad the sewage pit doesn’t focus more on helping its students and graduates find decent jobs. Cool. The commode has a strong clinic. This is important, in instilling real skills among law students. However, if no firms or government agencies want to hire your TTTT ass, what is the point of going to law school?! Also, this school bills itself as a place that opens the doors to under-represented groups. Again, legal employers are weary of hiring graduates of fourth tier trash cans.

    On top of this, non-legal employers will use the “overqualified” excuse – as a way to avoid hiring JDs. In reality, they figure you may demand more money or be too combative - which is funny, considering that most attorneys are gutless pussies who will do whatever the boss wants. Ignorant non-law employers will be concerned that you will leave as soon as a lawyer job opens up.

    Do you see how graduating from a dung heap affects your job prospects? Biglaw is not an option. Non-law employers are resistant to hire you; they would rather hire the hot brunette with the muscular calves and firm ass than take a chance on you, loser. (This may not apply if you have solid or extensive business experience or a STRONG inside connection.) If you don’t mind hanging out a shingle and competing against experienced, skilled litigators – with a solid reputation and “professional” contacts – then go ahead and piss your future away.

  47. @1:15. I've come to the conclusion that I have no desire to be a litigator. I just don't find all the games, delay tactics of any significance. I'd rather focus on the transactional side where instead of focusing on all the procedural minutia. Maybe you can tell - I hated civil procedure in law school.

  48. Nando et al:

    Matasar is leaving his post at NYLS, and he is being called a "reformer:"

    Title: "Reformer dean to step down after long tenure at New York Law School"

    An excerpt: "Matasar has been one of the loudest voices for the reform of legal education, along with former Northwestern University School of Law Dean David Van Zandt, who left last year to become the president of The New School in New York. Matasar has chastised law schools for not doing a better job of teaching students the skills legal employers want, and has repeatedly warned that the dual trends of rapidly increasing tuition and diminishing job opportunities for graduates make the existing law school system untenable."


    ATL also run an article on this cockroach:

    "New York Law School Helps At Least One Person Get A Job: The Dean!"

    Keep up the good work!

  49. I know a couple folks that went to NYLS for LLMs. Last I heard they charged something like $1300 a credit hour for an LLM program that stretched out for almost 2 years. That debt went on top of law school debt. I don't know how people do it.

  50. Dick Matasar is no dummy. He sees the writing on the wall. He is getting off the gravy train before it comes to an abrupt stop when it hits the wall. Nando, please prepare a proper send off of Dick Matasar, who is a "pioneer" of legal education.

  51. By far one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made. That's what I get for falling back on "get a law degree" myth, especially from this dump of school. However, if you don't mind taking a year and half to learn what most law schools teach in the first semester of 1L year then by all means waste your money. This is of course because of the dearth of electives you could take to keep to your law school career somewhat interesting. But if you like classes taught by professors with ethics violations in their previous fields of employment, I welcome you to try it out. If you find working with the public as a broke attorney invigorating( especially since you'll eventually need some of the same services, you'll not only be helping clients you'll actually doing some personal research for your own eventual needs) or find document review interesting and necessary in order to subsist then be my guest. Also, let me not forget to mention that whenever somebody decides to ask you where you go to school don't forget the small ball of pride you swallow each time you have to explain what and where "UDC" is with the hope that with it being located in the country's capital, that it will somewhat justify why you attend the worst law school in DC. I implore you if this is your only option and you really love law be a paralegal. Less debt and more options.

    A little too emotional the first time I wrote this but minus the run-ons and fragments this should be a little more legible

  52. What a stinkhole. I don't care if the school is only charging ~$9000 per year. The grads have about as much chance of practicing law as a common titmouse. Pass on this school. If it's the best you can do I suggest you find another career.

  53. June 28, 2011 5:05 PM:

    Precisely. This train is leaving the tracks soon, and this guy knows it. Cynicism, I would guess, knows no bounds in the TTT world.

  54. I had a guy on Facebook ask me if law school was worth it and I told him I would not recommend it to anyone. I talked about graduating without a job prospect, putting out enough applications to wallpaper a battleship, getting very few interviews and only getting saved because my friend opened a law firm with an old law school buddy and a friend of that buddy. It's a risky move; I pray that the whole business doesn't tank and leave me jobless again. It's showing a tiny profit, but God knows that could change at any time. I added that the firm's in another state and I'm waiting for approval on my application on motion, which could take until August, plus that right now my family of five is subsisting on my 5-15 hours of work plus my husband's meager salary. I'm lucky to have had the two cases giving me those hours fall into my lap. Being a bit bitter, I told him not to believe any of that rosy crap the law schools paint and to check out the scamblogs, which actually tell the truth. I finished my message to him with "I'm one of the lucky ones. I know of classmates who are doing document review for $10/hr. or underwriting agricultural insurance."

    I think I scared him off law school. Let's hope I did.

  55. This fucking school sounds like the Lawl Skool equivalent of those cheap Christian colleges down South - most aren't accredited, it's impossible to transfer credits to a real college, and the diploma is woth less than the paper or card stock that it was printed on.

    I have to second other commentors; that turd photo is just gross....don't ask me why, it just is.

    BTW, Nando did you Google Map this bastard just to see if the Skool is in a ghetto? Beasley at Temple U. is in a North Philly slumzone; is this scumhole better off?

  56. It's in the middle of a good area in DC. Northwest to be exact if you're familiar with DC at all.

  57. Licensed attorneys and unemployed JDs have an obligatoin to tell the truth when asked by some asshole if law school is worth it. Thank God many of you are doing this. In my view, profs ans schools have the same obligation. The problem is the cocksuckers are making too much money off the scam to tell the truth.

  58. If I was asked if law school was worth it, and I was still unemployed, and the person had an LSAT of 152 and UGPA of 3.1 I would say the following:

    "Many will tell you 'don't go to law school'. Many will say the legal profession is dying. Well, the legal profession has been around since God shut the doors to the garden of Eden and man tried to sue him for adverse possession and breach of implied warranty. It can be tough, but if you know you really want to go, and you really want to be a lawyer, do not listen to other people. Do not listen to the scamblogs. Do not listen to anyone but yourself, if you know you will try hard, and I mean very hard, you can be in the top 20% of your class. I did it, and I could have improved, easily. You can even transfer if you do well enough. Just keep that goal in your mind at all times. When others are out and about, traveling to Hawaii during spring break, study your butt off. Save the travel and fun for the summers. Find a job before summer, but don't make it an obsession. Don't be too social, skip events like Barrister's Ball and study while others are out. Keep your teeth to the grindstone, and you will be fine. Even if you get into only Cooley, yes, go to law school, and don't visit the scamblogs until you realize you are going to be fine. That's what I did, and now I only laugh at them. I laugh and laugh and laugh some more. You, like I, will definitely be a great attorney one day. I promise you that, as long as you try hard, and not 'Nando-hard', I mean as long as you REALLY try hard. You can do it, go! Go to law school, if that's what you want, and don't let any nay-sayer ever hold you back!"

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  59. Hey guys, Nando will no doubt write an excellent entry on the fraudster Richard Matasar. In the meantime, you can check out my entry here:

  60. Yes, this toilet is the pits of the pits, prestige-wise. However, there are two points from the profile that deserve approval:

    (1) their in-state tuition is in the neighborhood of reasonable

    Who needs in state tuition when in state in this shit hole means minority or super rich. The super rich likely are not going here and a minority scholarship sure beats any instate tuition.

    Another way to market the fucking of middle class white dudes.

  61. @ World Traveling Law Student:

    Have you even *started* law school yet? What the hell do you know about the legal profession?

  62. By all means, kids, go to law school. Just realize that a JD now is nothing more than a lottery ticket. There are tons of better things to do, more interesting things to do, than the mundane practice of law.

    If and when you do decide to practice law, you will be handling things like probate (where your redneck clients will be fighting over Dad's riding mower and other glamorous estate items) and vicious, nasty divorces between crazy people who not only threaten each other and their kids, but who will be calling YOU at 300 in the morning to tell you about "what that bitch did to me now".

    That's what practicing law is really like except for the lucky few. Wanna give it a try? Have fun with that, Just don't get any ideas about how glamorous practicing law is.

  63. The legal profession, by the way, is not dying. It's been dead for a while now.

  64. "Another way to market the fucking of middle class white dudes."

    The school is majority white.


    “According to this model, every state but Wisconsin and Nebraska (plus Washington, D.C.) is producing many more lawyers than it needs. (See table after the jump for full data, and additional caveats.)

    In fact, across the country, there were twice as many people who passed the bar in 2009 (53,508) as there were openings (26,239). A separate estimate for the number of lawyers produced in 2009 — the number of new law-school graduates, according to the National Center for Education Statistics — also showed a surplus, although it was not quite as large (44,159 new law grads compared with 26,239 openings).

    In raw numbers, New York has the greatest legal surplus by far.”

    To the UNEMPLOYED COCKROACH posting from Chicopee, MA: Massachusetts is listed as the fifth-most GLUTTED legal job market. Congratulations, bitch.

    2010-15 Est. Annual Openings: 715
    2009 Bar Exam Passers: 2,165
    2009 Completers (IPEDS): 2,520
    Surplus/Shortage: 1,450

    By the way, graduates of Marquette University Law School and the University of Wisconsin Law School do not need to sit for the state’s bar exam. By virtue of graduating from an in-state law school, they can automatically become members of the Wisconsin Bar. Hence those numbers are skewed.

    Also, one can waive into Nebraska, rather easily.

    Head toward the bottom of page 3:

    “Minnesota, Nebraska and North Dakota also allow applicants to be admitted on motion without satisfying a durational practice requirements if they have passed a bar exam in another jurisdiction with a certain score and have satisfied other requirements.”

    “Minnesota, North Dakota and the District of Columbia allow attorneys who recently passed the bar exam of another state, and who were subsequently admitted to the bar of that state while scoring a certain minimum score on the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE), to "waive" into admission rather than sitting for that jurisdiction's exam.”

  66. June 29, 2011 11:24 AM

    Yes, I agree, 11:24, it is indeed fitting, as a public service for those "already in", to give these sage words of advice:

    Unless independently wealthy, connected, or possessing SIGNIFICANT and VALUABLE pre-law-school experiences and contacts, drop the hell out of any one of these non-elite sewers if your First Year grades place you outside the TOP TEN PERCENT of the class.

    Even at that, completing the JD is a RISKY PROPOSITION and inadvisable for the vast majority of people. Some succeed, of course, then again, someone always wins the lottery,too. This does not negate the fact the odds are very much against you in attending one of these non-elite "schools". They are a monstrous ripoff preying on the naive.

    Bottom Line: Know When To Drop Out! You are better off doing so than graduating from a sub-par law school, with sub-par grades,

    How's that for advice for those "already in"?

  67. I'm in the top 18% of my class, probably transferring, and my GPA will reset, giving me one more chance to make top 10%. Am I dropping out?


    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  68. Top 18% fuckhead,

    You're unemployed. You go to WNEC (a notorious shithole). Do you see how your 'success' in the classroom has not led to any jobs?

    Point. Set. Match. Owned.

  69. @ world traveling lemming,
    make sure that sheepskin is washable, because that will be one expensive toilet paper.

  70. World Traveling Law Student is pulling his pud in Panama for the summer because, as you've astutely noted, he has not fucking job! Go WNECL! Top 18%? Sheesh, I was top 12.25% and I'm currently unemployed (sarcasm intended - except the unemployed part is true). As I believe Nando previously stated ... go suck a big bag of dicks World Traveling Dickhead from WNECL in the Top 18%!

  71. June 29, 2011 2:22 PM:

    What, are they letting people repeat First Year now, upon transfer? What is this, a law school "mulligan"? The GPA of the First Year is the ONLY GPA in law school that counts. When did that change? That was my critical mistake, i.e., not dropping out after a poor showing first year. Big mistake staying in.

  72. ATL just posted an article about a law journal from this piece of shit school:

    "News came to us that the University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law has created what the school is calling an Illustrated Law Journal. UDC Law’s new journal aspires to provide visual illustrations of laws and legal concepts so that laypeople and jurists can get a handle on the law in the world around them."

  73. @Anonymous who posted right after me a day ago

    Yeah, I checked Google street view; place looks pretty decent, though it is across from a gas station....maybe the grads fight over working at the gas station.

    I don't like to quote movies but...."Eject! Eject! Eject!" (Top Gun)

    You are DOOMED. Flee the lawl skool NOW, then flee the country LATER to avoid SALLIE MAE. There are no good law jobs, there will be fewer shit law jobs in the future, thanks to globalization of the legal "industry." If you graduate, you are better off joining the Army and dying a heroic death in Afghanistan then living with those Goddamn bills. Thirty years ago you could've gotten away with graduating from some middle of the road law school - not anymore. You want to achieve your "dreams and goals"? Flee the school.

  74. Only go here if you're wealthy, connected, don't give a shit if you never practice law or have nothing else better to do. (If you work at Taco Bell and have some friends and a roof over your head, I put this under the category of something better than law school.)

    Whatever you decide do not pay money to attend this shithole or any other TTTT.

  75. It is cheap (for in-staters). The ONLY reason why anyone should attend this school is if they plan on practicing on their OWN!!! Period - as in SOLO. The likelihood that you will get a firm job (any firm job) coming out of this school is extremely low. I never even heard of this school before Nando's post. DC is the most over-saturated area for lawyers in the country. What makes you think that a firm will take you from this crap hole school when there are zillions of unemployed law graduates from better schools in DC? Like I said, do not attend this school if you can't envision yourself practicing on your own out of law school - because that will likely be your ONLY option!!! You might be able to get some doc review work, but even then the agencies would probably take more qualified graduates.

  76. June 29, 2011 7:13 PM

    Bullshit, 7:13. NO ONE'S stopping ANYONE who wants to from attending one of these schools. NO ONE. This is just opinion--that is, FROM THOSE WHO HAVE TRIED IT. That's all. Wanna go to law school?
    Like it or not, FOR THE VAST MAJORITY, law is a field built on prestige, connections and where one went to school. There certainly ARE successes outside these parameters. However, at today's prices, there are WAAAAY better things to pursue than law at this level of risk.

    Go right ahead.

  77. +++++Sorry, Strelnikov. My 12:37 comment was not directed at you, but at Odnan.+++++

  78. Odnan is Nando backwards. He's not fooling anyone with his crazy talk or his blog, even though the blog is well written.

  79. nando, please check the ip addresses of June 30, 2011 12:55 PM and June 29, 2011 11:24 AM im almost 100% certain they're the same.

  80. I take it that the World Traveling Dipshit Attending WNECL (Top 18%) is the blog owner for the above-referenced site, Clearly, the name is a direct take on Nando's instant blog. This fuck has some serious issues.

  81. Odnan is a funny character. I looked at his new blog, Looks like he is a fourth tier toileteer. He believes that law school is good. And interesting. And he has learned a lot. And you shouldn't let the naysayers on the scamblogs talk you out of lawschool if you really want to go. Because you can be a great lawyer even if you go to a fourth tier toilet.

    What Odnan doesn't get is that the scamblogs serve a very useful purpose. Without scamblogs, the only opinions out there about law schools are word of mouth from people familiar with various law schools or the law schools own advertising. Guess what? The law schools won't work too hard to discourage you from applying or attending. They also aren't too forthcoming or honest about the actual value of the degrees they give out.

    While law school can be interesting, and you do learn a lot, and you do come to see the world differently after law school, the big issue is whether it is worth the six figure debt and loss of income to go to law school. For many people, it is not. And its very important to understand that law school and practicing law are two whole different worlds. Odnan does not know this yet, because he has drunk too freely of the law school Kool Aid.

    I work in immigration. Odnan reminds me of the unattractive loser US citizens we see who marry impossibly good looking aliens. Sometimes the suggestion will be made to these citizens that they are being used for a green card. These US citizens will swear up and down that the alien loves them and will stay with them. These citizens will threaten to sue DHS for failure to approve the green card. They will start deranged letter writing campaigns.

    Then the alien gets the green card. And promptly leaves the loser US citizen. Then the US citizen starts a new letter writing campaign demanding that his or her now ex-spouse be deported for scamming him or her for a green card. I expect to see something similar from Odnan in a couple of years.

  82. Odnan, I must finally admit, may have come up with a viable toileteer strategy, seriously.

    By being sort of an unofficial apologist, or kiss-ass, if you will, of the TTT industry NOW, he may be securing himself a position with them later on.

    I think he may already be a paid shill, since they know the bottom is falling out of the law school scam, and he is helping these sewers of law prop it up a little while longer, suckering in a few more naive kids to this sick and festeringly overcrowded "profession."

    Odnan, gotta say, not a bad strategy for you personally, to secure your position by ingratiating yourself to these sewers of law.

  83. A paid shill would marshal arguments that are persuasive-sounding, logical, and have some truth to them in order to conceal the greater deception.

    This is not the style of Odnan/ World Traveler, who comes across like a true-believing cultist. I feel sorry for him. Many of us were once similarly deluded about law school, although probably not to his off-the-wall extent.

  84. The law school faculty rats are starting to feel the heat:

    "The Coming Crunch for Law Schools"


    Brian Tamanaha, Professor of Law at Washington University in St Louis.

  85. To the WNEC turd who obsessively posts here:

    Here is an excerpt from "The Chosen," written by Chaim Potok, American Jewish author and rabbi:

    "Human beings do not live forever, Reuven. We live less than the time it takes to blink an eye, if we measure our lives against eternity. So it may be asked what value is there to a human life. There is so much pain in the world. What does it mean to have to suffer so much if our lives are nothing more than the blink of an eye? . . .I learned a long time ago, Reuven, that a blink of an eye in itself is nothing. But the eye that blinks, that is something. A span of life is nothing. But the man who lives the span, he is something. He can fill that tiny span with meaning, so its quality is immeasurable though its quantity may be insignificant."

    Develop some integrity, cockroach. As far as I can tell, we have one mortal life. Do you want to waste your existence, as a brainless, ball-less shill for the morally-bankrupt and thoroughly corrupt law school industry?!Is that really how you want to spend your pathetic life, bitch?!?!

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
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  86. I'm more of an Ayn Rand kind of guy, though :)

    I want to be Howard Roark. Or John Galt.

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  87. July 1, 2011 4:14 PM:


    Creative, vibrant persons don't go into law. They go into the sciences, researching and developing cures, designing better and more efficient machines, analyzing and improving processes.

    Ayn Rand would think lawyers a parisitic drain on society. Lawyers create nothing. When some lawyer/politician puts the wrong man in jail, it taks a SCIENTIST to set him free.

  88. Check out this line from TJSL's dean of student affairs on the girl suing them:

    Kransberger said she doesn’t believe Alaburda or any other students “worth their salt” base their choice of a law school solely on the U.S. News rankings.

    This shows schools do not care about their students. They are only concerned with their own survival.

  89. Not really substantive,

    But I noticed that this $chool is 'Humid Excrement' and the last $chool is 'Dry Waste'.

  90. To the cretin who posted at 10:08 pm,

    This post lists the facts and figures, bitch. Is that too hard for you to fathom?!?!

    I recognize that your little brain is only capable of accepting self-reported numbers, published by the schools. However, you should step back and pull your head out of your corroded ass.

    “Avoid this overpriced sewer pit as if your life depended on it,” writes the anonymous author of the blog Third Tier Reality — a reference to the second-to-bottom tier of the U.S. News rankings — in a typically scatological review. “Unless, of course, you think that you will be better off with $110k-$190k in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a degree that qualifies you to wait tables at the Battery Park Bar and Lounge.”

    When is the last time YOU were quoted in the New York Times Sunday edition, cockroach?!?!

    Back on July 30, 2010 at 9:24 pm, Professor J. Gordon Hylton at Marquette Law School had this to say about Third Tier Reality:

    “For a thought-provoking (and sobering) blog devoted to the realities of legal education in the 21st century, one should check out Third Tier Reality”

  91. Dear Nando at 9:40

    I posted the comment at 10:08 last evening. I have nothing against your webblog and follow it to learn the news about the legal community. I agree with your analysis of this school and the last one.

    I just thought the contrast between the water level of particular institution of higher edumacation and of The Las Vagas School of Law was somewhat funny.

    Don't have a cow man.

  92. Dear 5:22, you must realize that Nando is very angry, and will not take any argument that goes counter to his. If Nando was willing to take in an argument and not call the opponent a cockroach, then his blog would have more credibility.

    I imagine when Nando was trying out for Moot Court, he would go up to his opponent and say "cockroch, your client is obviously guilty because he obviously has killed the guy" and the opponent would say "I object!" and Nando would scream "hey a**hole! Are you so f**ked up to believe that your client is innocent? And Jessica Alba is at my house waiting for me to come home and wrap her legs around my neck..."

    I am sorry it turned out this way, 5:22, but that's the game that Nando plays, and that's why we all know it was best he didn't go into litigation.

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  93. On another note, why would the law school in the desert of Nevada be humid?

    Also, Nando, he was saying that his comment was not substantive, not that your post with all it's messy math wasn't (even though it isn't).

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  94. At 6:48 pm on July 3, 2011, The World-Traveling Ass-Clown wrote:

    On another note, why would the law school in the desert of Nevada be humid?”

    Learn some *basic* reading comprehension, douche-bag. I referred to UNLV Sewer of Law as a pile of dry waste. I never said that the law school was humid. Seeing that Las Vegas is a desert, that makes sense, doesn’t it? (As if you can understand an explanation that does not involve Crayola crayons, large Legos and Play-Doh, mental deficient.) Do you see the link above, bitch?!?! YOU actually posted several comments, on that entry.

    I stated that the Univer$iTTTTy of the Di$TTTTricTTTT of Columbia David A. Clarke $chool of Law as a stack of humid excrement. Seeing that this commode is located near the Potomac River - and is in the southeastern region of the U.S. - this description fits.

    I thoroughly enjoy flushing your face and ass down the toilet, turd.

    From 6:46 pm:

    “I imagine when Nando was trying out for Moot Court, he would go up to his opponent and say "cockroch, your client is obviously guilty because he obviously has killed the guy" and the opponent would say "I object!" and Nando would scream "hey a**hole! Are you so f**ked up to believe that your client is innocent? And Jessica Alba is at my house waiting for me to come home and wrap her legs around my neck..."

    By the way, you - as one who claims to be “top 18%” at WNEC TTTT - cannot even spell the word cockroach correctly!! I did not try out for fake court. However, I actually did enjoy my pre-trial ad and trial advocacy courses. It is a travesty that law schools do not spend more on teaching their students how to practice, research cases, argue motions, etc. The instructors - two active Iowa court judges and a small law practitioner - were impressed with my knowledge, tenacity and preparation. I also did clinic my last year, and many of the local judges were likewise swayed by my approach. (This didn’t lead to any legal jobs, however. There is an attorney GLUT that we all must deal with, bitch.)

    Also, I never lashed out against those students, but I did enjoy beating their ass down with the facts. (I loved seeing the instructor feeding one adversary the answers, after I thoroughly trounced her, while arguing a motion.) I reserve my invective for obvious morons such as you.

    Good luck on starting your alleged internship tomorrow, dung beetle. I figure that this will not preclude you from posting more drivel on this site.


    By the way, shouldn’t you be traveling - seeing that it is a major holiday?! Or do you just pretend? We can see that you are CONSTANTLY posting from the Springfield, MA metro area, cockroach.

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Jul 4 2011 6:18am 5 actions 2m 10s
    Jul 3 2011 6:40pm 7 actions 8m 30s
    Jul 3 2011 5:38pm 1 action 10s
    Jul 3 2011 4:33pm 2 actions 6s
    Jul 3 2011 2:42pm 3 actions 16m 9s
    Jul 3 2011 12:11pm 4 actions 3m 6s
    Jul 3 2011 6:59am 6 actions 12m 43s
    Jul 2 2011 2:16pm 4 actions 5m 9s
    Jul 2 2011 6:25am 2 actions 3m 46s
    Jul 1 2011 6:07pm 2 actions 1m 5s
    Jul 1 2011 4:13pm 6 actions 1m 14s
    Jul 1 2011 3:10pm 2 actions 2m 9s
    Jul 1 2011 2:37pm 2 actions 8m 48s
    Jul 1 2011 12:06pm 5 actions 17m 16s
    Jul 1 2011 9:47am 16 actions 22m 4s
    Jul 1 2011 5:05am 2 actions 1m 6s

    When pieces of trash troll on this board, I am reminded of this clip where George Carlin rips open a heckler. This is my forum. If you want to be an adult and engage in reasoned debate, bring some FACTS to back up your case.

    If you persist in being a ball-less, spineless, brainless cockroach, I will step on you. I have a low tolerance for willful ignorance and blatant stupidity. This explains why I have repeatedly smashed you over the head with a ceramic toilet seat - and pressed your face against foul, hot waste inside the commode.

  96. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  97. To the piece of trash who posted on August 29, 2011 10:14 pm,

    I own a home, bitch. Why don't you use your pathetic TTTT law degree, to help your mother qualify for the low-income housing, or AIDS, clinic.

    You have a severe inferiority complex, dicknose. And who can blame you? After all, your law diploma reads "University of the District of Columbia David A. Clarke School of Law." Lastly, when legal employers see plenty of clinical/intern positions on your resume, they immediately think "What a loser. This person obviously isn't good enough to land paid employment. Why should we give this idiot a chance?!"

  98. I turned down Harvard and Gtown to go to UDC. so HA

  99. I came across this site after a Google search for UDC Law.

    UDC is one of the school I am considering due to its cost.

    As I read the post and comments, I must say that I them nauseating. Are students and graduates of T-100 schools such arrogant pricks and cunts?

    Who cares that you decided to take out six-figures worth of debt to attend a school so you can brag among your empty and pathetic peers?

    At least the person who attends UDC displays superior intellect in deciding whether to take out an enormous amount of debt or nominal amount of debt.

    Again, I find you people disgusting.

  100. Eh, I commented too soon. It appears this blog is attempting to inform the uninformed about what pitfalls to watch for in their pursuit of law school.

    My apologies.

  101. Nando

    I think your analysis may be a little thin on the relative value of the UDC Clarke School of Law. You correctly point out the low tuition as good value but then focus on the cost of living as a large negative. Many of the students there are from DC or the metro area and as such live at home with parents, or with spouses or domestic partners. This lowers the cost.

    UDC also has a night 4 year program, where most of those students have day jobs. With a day job, they can get tuition support, salary, etc.

    For those students who are working their way through, it is a rough time, but, they can easily graduate debt free. For those who are not but are willing to live in the cheaper parts of town, they can live with small loans.

    A JD is not the path to the big life like we see in TV Dramas, but a JD can be a useful tool Certainly a JD is useful when hunting for Congressional staff jobs, policy jobs in associations or management jobs in small business.

    I think it's more likely you can build a career with a low cost JD then you can with a high cost JD. I'm a student at UDC, and I meet and hear of students from Catholic, AU, GWU, GT graduating with hundreds of thousands in debt. My education will cost about one year at GWU.

    I wouldn't want to trade places with any of them

  102. Okay "Nando." Way to spend your time being the biggest douche on the internet. I don't go to UDC, but I know a few lawyers who have and they are doing fine for themselves. You are going to have successes and failures at every school. One major advantage that David A. Clark graduates have is that how little debt they incur from attending the school (pending of course they find solid work upon graduating).

    1. I back up my argument with the facts, bitch. If you have a problem with reality or cannot comprehend basic concepts, then you will have great difficulty in this job field - if you can get your foot in the door.

      Take a look at the 2014 edition of the USN&WR law school rankings, mental deficient. The UniversiTTTTy of the DisTTTTricTTTT of Columbia David A Clarke Sewer of Law is still listed as a FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT. This affects one's job prospects, moron.!?! Or do I need to draw you a diagram with Crayola on posterboard?


      Employed at graduation: N/A
      Median private sector starting salary: $50,000
      Median public service starting salary: $47,000"

      Keep in mind that students and recent grads at UDC Sewer of Law will be competing in a GLUTTED D.C. lawyer job market. While tuition may be relatively low, the cost of living is also a factor. By the way, moron: a graduate of this toilet emailed me several times, asking me to profile this school.

      If you have your little heart and tiny mind set on going to law school, then enroll. No one is stopping you from making the dumbest decision of your life. Hell, if YOU end up owing $130K in total, NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, it will not add one dime to my student loans. Get a life, waterhead.


  104. It is clear that all of the negative comments are coming from certain people. These individuals seem to have a personal beef with UDC...maybe UDC didn't accept them. Most of the comments are not exactly true. I've been watching UDC for about two year now...their graduates are actually more equip to practice law than people that graduate from GTown, GW and other locate law schools. The hands on knowledge and experience gained during the required internships prepares them to practice law in it's practical sense. Let's remember most law schools do not prepare you for the practice of law, you learn that in the field. UDC's emphasis is on the practical application of the law...and their grads are getting jobs. You have to remember, everyone that goes to law school is not focused on getting the big law firm jobs....some people are wanting to help others, empower others etc. The hate and anger that's being expressed in this thread is scary...some of you sound like you need to be committed. Get over it, UDC is not for everyone, but what UDC is doing has gotten recognition for the Dept of Justice, Education and Newsweek. If you don't like UDC, that's ok, but you should really focus your energy on something positive. I hope that you are not thinking about going into the law profession, because you wouldn't make a good lawyer. Your attitude about people, the law and UDC is disgraceful and the language that you have used in this thread shows that you are poorly educated. Maybe you should stick to being a construction worker or farm hand.

    1. Hello, pathetic tool.

      What do you have against honest workers, Bitch? Apparently, you despise those employed in construction or on farms. That speaks volumes about YOUR LACK OF CHARACTER. Those men and women work their asses off, usually for low pay, you piece of trash.

      By the way, it is okay to use adult language when talking about the law school pigs. Real men swear, pussy. In fact, I don't trust a man who doesn't employ cuss words.

      The UniversiTTTTy of the DisTTTTricTTTT of Columbia David A. Clarke Sewer of Law is a festering FOURTH TIER TRASH PIT - according to US "News" & World Report. That is quite a distinction, huh?!?!

      You were correct about one thing, cockroach: UDC is not for everyone. Such a putrid toilet is reserved for people too damn dumb to gain admission to a real law school.

  105. I was an early graduate of Antioch School of Law. Although in its early days, it had its bright and shiny moment in the sun, it fell very quickly into the toilet bowl.

    Later, it was always a challenge to explain my matriculation there to anyone interested in me professionally. It was - figuratively and literally -- an albatross around my neck that I was always able to surmount, overcome fortunately.

    My career and my life have been pretty good, even great at times. I am proud of all my personal and professional accomplishments. But Antioch School of Law was a crazy 70's- Hippie outlier for me. I might as well have chewed on peyote mushrooms and had sex for 3 years. Just my opinion.

  106. UDC is one of the shittiest law schools in the country. It's right down there with shitholes like Whittier and Appalachian. Avoid this school. It's garbage.

  107. All I can say is Preach Nando Preach! You speak the truth, and unfortunately for all of these douchebags defending UDC as a great school no matter which school is being referred to in this case you were blogging about the law school. These idiots do not want to hear or accept the truth. UDC no matter which school (the community college, undergraduate, law school, and Professional Graduate) Needs to be shut down permanently, and this action needs to be done immediately. It has often been associated as having such a negative stigma, and most of the natives have referred to it as "University of Dumb Children". UDC's graduation rate is terrible (about 12%, actually). But graduation rates, per se, don't really express the full measure of the quality of an institution. For generations, UDC has had - as its main student body - many students who have needed serious remediation before even considering serious college work. UDC has never had anything but a lackluster reputation. I do not know if it has changed, but their admission standards were solely graduating from a DC public school (no mean feat) and scoring 200 on the SATs (also not very difficult).
    If that is the standards for undergraduate or even more recently community college admissions then I shudder at what the law school admission requirements are. Such standards, if you would call them that, are simply not going to produce a school with students exhibiting the necessary critical thinking and reasoning skills that would comprise what we generally term a college education. You can put lipstick on a pig, but...
    One of the biggest criticisms of UDC is that it has the ambition to be a major research land grant university like the U. of Maryland or Penn. St., and it spends millions of dollars in developing its graduate programs and ignoring its struggling undergraduate students who really need much more help than your typically college. Even with the investment, those graduate programs typically don't attract quality faculty or students and struggle with accreditation. Overall UDC is an open admission school posing as a jack of all trades trying to pose as a community college, undergraduate school, and professional graduate school. People considering law school in the DC Area have better options GU, GWU, Howard U, not to mention the plethora of other schools in the neighboring states of MD & VA because from what I understand DC residents qualify for DC Tag or other DC Financial Assistant programs.:

  108. This country is entry too obsessed on law as a profession. Lawyers add value to society as a whole, but there are too many, and quite honestly, if this country intends to stay competitive economically, there needs to more focus on math and the sciences, not this nonsense.

  109. I went to an Ivy league undergrad school and chose UDC for various reasons. (Mostly because I was too stupid to go to a better school.) I feel so bad for you all who choose to talk badly about your law school. Maybe you should go elsewhere...or are you, like me too stupid to get into a real law school as well? Why don't you people grow up. Whether anyone had a good experience there or not isn't the point, I sat right down next to G'town law grads and had to take the same licensing exam - its call the Bar. Some regardless of where they went failed others including UDC grads passed. So basically what you are putting out here is that you don't have more than a basic and common command of the English language. You admit to attending a "refuse receptacle " (at least its accredited by the ABA- Anyway, I digress. All this is so sad. Seems like where ever you go you will find frustration unhappiness and disappointment. Could it be that your issues are within you? Go don't go. There are so many factors and sometimes its so arbitrary who gets in where. Just get qualified to take the Bar and then go do good, fight windmills, make a life for yourself. It may not be LA Law it aint Judge Judy either. When you are happy doing what you do you will find success. Also, consider this. Big Law firm associates...don't see sunshine for years. If you wanted the quick and easy route than you should have either been born to a wealthy and influential family or gone out and won the lottery. Regardless, please don't disparage UDC some people gratefully regard that place as an opportunity and hope for the future. All this "crap" talk only makes the school look bad. We all need the school to look good because then the ranking will go up and we can thrust our chests out with pride out a little more each year. Even if the school is a piece of crap. You now, fake it till ya make it and all that stuff. When the school is then more respected will your attitudes be the same? I think you would probably change your tune quite abruptly. Please get back to studying or transferring or giving up and doing something else. Since you didn't do your research when you were looking into law school and what that all entails maybe you can learn to research better now for things to come. But please stop hurting my feelings with all this dribble. Nice picture. Side Bar: I guess because you are sooooo damn smart and can put a website together you also know what is in other peoples bank accounts. I'll save you the trouble. I only have $47 in my checking account. I don't even have a savings account. And I'm 36 years old. I owe a crazy amount of student loans. And you don't see me blaming the law school for my failures. I don't see anywhere in any writings posted here that anybody is paying you for your opinions. However I am getting paid for mine even if I'm only making $26K a year. I'm happy. Just like the Pharell WIlliams song Cuz I'm happy. Go to this fine institution and you can be a success story like me. Who cares about the student debt. It's not like its real money or anything.

  110. It's unfortunate, but this country does not need more lawyers; it needs more scientists, computer scientists, trades people, and mathematicians.
    Bruce B.

  111. It should be noted when I graduated from UDC, so called trash pit, it only had provisional accreditation. I am now a Professor at a second tier law school. It all depends upon the person. You have to put in work, and strive to rise to the top.

  112. And how many years did that take you - 20? What a joke are you that same fool that got disbarred in Pennsylvania?

  113. I would like to point out that quite a few of the people who graduate from that so called school have been caught up in heap of problems, namely one who stole money from clients with the last name Stinson. That man hired a fellow alumnus and failed to pay him. Then he got disbarred in Pennsylvania.

  114. The David A. Clarke School of Law is an excellent school where many opportunities are opened up to African-American students who would otherwise not be able to become involved in the practice of law. Why should a 2.0 GPA and 140 LSAT score hold you back? You deserve to succeed just as much as the whitey who studied for 40 hours per week and graduated with a 4.0. Affirmative action and a career in the federal government will help you overcome any difficulties you might experience post-graduation.

    The University of the District of Columbia needs to step up and match the splendor of its crosstown rival and bastion of excellence Howard University by opening up the David A. Clarke School of Medicine. We don't just need a new class of outstanding lawyers educated under the UDC model, we also need the next generation of doctors coming from there too.

  115. DC School of Law is a joke. The ABA should take away its accreditation permanently.

  116. I forgot to mention that one of DC School of Law's professors dated one of his own students. There was a stabbing incident over the love affair. This should needs to be shut down.

  117. I actually attend UDC School of Law and the comments on this way off base. While it like many of the top tier schools has its share of problems, they are not unique to this school. What you fail to acknowledge is the student has a lot of control over what happens with his or her career. I have friends at other law schools who tell me there program of study is less involved and they wish they had an actual clinic program like ours. So quit all the hating. And I graduated my undergrad with a 4.0 and scored 162.

  118. Baloney. I say that school is an unnecessary burden on the tax payers.

  119. A lot of cry babies on this site. If you have to work for a big firm and make a lot of money, go to Harvard or Yale. If you can't get into one of these schools, then stop crying and try dentistry.

    Bottom line: to each his own. Not every person on earth wants to work at a big firm and make a lot of money. Some people just want to make enough money to take care of themselves and their families, while helping as many people as possible improve their lives or get a second chance at life.

    Again, stop being a crybaby about not being able to get into Harvard or Yale. Yes, UDCSL is not Harvard or Yale. It doesn't pretend to be.

    You need to get over your anger and find another career option is what you need to do. Sorry you couldn't get into your dream school. You don't need to ugly up the rest of the world however, just because you are miserable.

  120. Shelley Broderick who runs the school is a nut job.

  121. DC School of Law has done more damage that good.

  122. Shelley Broderick is a flat nose troll who should retire from public service. She's as old as dirt.

  123. DC School of Law needs to get real. If their graduates are interested in practicing law or furthering their mission, the school has no right to force that on its graduates. I am sick of that school and its damn holier than thou attitude.

  124. Someone really needs to get serious about the lack of jobs in the legal profession. There are just too many law schools, and perspective students are finally getting smart by pursuing other options.

  125. DC School of Law is a piece of work. They helped Phillip Mathew Stinson who got convicted of mishandling client funds. He did not pay some of his employees regularly, including one that graduated from DC School of Law. That school should be embarrassed.

  126. Students have control of their own destiny, but the market place governs the demand. We will see how many students schools like this will be able to attract in the next 5-10 years.

  127. True, people have control over their own destiny, but there is such a thing as supply and demand. These schools should be more honest in publishing their statistics.

  128. The school should be shut down permanently because it's just a jobs program for people like Joe Libertelli who was an abject failure in his career otherwise.

  129. All the scandals surrounding DC school of's the stuff of a soap opera. Between Lillian McEwen and Larry Williams.

  130. What a joke of an institution. It's rather incestuous. Consider this. Will McLain III was brought up on charges of ethical misconduct, and his license was temporarily suspended. Now his son works for the school as a clinical instructor. I wonder if his son is still married to Stephen Mercer another adjunct law professor at the same school.

  131. When a school has someone as insecure as Joe Libertelli running it, no wonder it has so many enemies.

  132. The DC School of Law would offer good material for those wanting to write a soap opera in a law school environment. You have a marriage and the divorce between two gay professors. One of the gay divorcees decide to start selling transgender art in Copenhagen, Denmark. The other one had three children with a married woman. What a bunch of characters.


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