Wednesday, June 22, 2011

Second Tier Pile of Dry Waste: University of Nevada, Las Vegas William S. Boyd School of Law

Tuition: For Nevada residents attending UNLV’s law school on a full-time basis, tuition for the 2010-2011 school year amounted to $20,000. For out-of-state, full-time law students, tuition totaled $33,400, for the same academic year.

Total Cost of Attendance: This same page lists estimated costs of attendance as $17,875 for full-time students – without a breakdown of expenses. Keeping in mind that the sewer only considers costs for the 9 month school year, we can determine that 12 month expenses will amount to $23,833. Fees will add another $838 to the tab. As such, total COA for a Nevada resident attending this law school full-time – for 2010-2011 - came out to $44,671. For non-resident, full-time law students, total COA reached $58,071, for the same school year. So much for attending a “cheap,” newer public school, huh?!?!

Ranking: The cost of attendance is a little steep, for a public law school that has only been around since 1998. Surely, the school has established a phenomenal alumni base and solid reputation in those 14 years of operation, right?!?! According to the dung beetles at US “News” & World Report, UNLV has a somewhat decent reputation. The problem is that it is still ranked as the 71st best law school in the United States. It shares this distinct honor with the following five commodes: Northeastern, Loyola-Chicago, Kentucky, Oklahoma, , and Pittsburgh. Their mothers must be very proud of this accomplishment.

Supposed Employment and Starting Salary Statistics: According to these $elf-reported figure$, 93.2% of the UNLV Sewer of Law’s Class of 2010 was employed within nine months of graduation. Yeah, sure they were – and Salma Hayek just shoved her bare breasts in my face. Then again, the ABA, NALP, and US “News” do not require law schools to distinguish between legal and non-legal employment.

How many of these graduates are stocking shelves as AutoZone, serving drinks at Crazy Horse III “gentlemen’s club” or selling insurance policies at Allstate?!?! Hell, a JD working the bar at Crazy Horse is probably bringing home more money than many practicing lawyers, who graduated from UNLV William $. Boyd Sewer of Law. The school also lists an average starting salary of $71,456, for this particular class.

Average Student Loan Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas JD Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $76,478. Specifically, 86 percent of this public sewer’s 2010 graduating class took on such toxic debt. Keep in mind that this does not take undergrad debt into account.

Administrator and Faculty Salaries: Since this is a public toilet, we cannot find salary info on Guidestar. However, we can look up Clark County salaries – thanks to local CBS affiliate, channel 8. On this page, we can see that dean John Valery White “earned” $337,321.53 in TOTAL COMPENSATION for 2009. In fact, that was straight salary, i.e. no incentives or bonuses.

You will also notice that Jeffrey Stempel, “Doris S. and Theodore B. Lee Professor of Law,” made $216,105.96 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the same year. We can’t forget those 96 cents, can we? He made $204,105.96 in base compensation, plus $12,000 in other compensation. By the way, Stempel teaches “Professional Responsibility.” I’m sure he stresses the need for ethics, morality, pro bono services and “avoiding the appearance of impropriety.”

“The Wiener-Rogers Law Library has a collection of approximately 300,000 volumes or volume equivalents and is the largest law library in Nevada.”

Wow, this school has the largest law library in the State of Nevada! That is phenomenal. Surely, this will raise the commode’s profile further. Oh wait. This is the only law school in the state. By the way, the name of the law library is a harbinger of things to come, i.e. that many UNLV Law students will be screwed over a coffee table, upon graduation.

Conclusion: The Las Vegas legal job market was a haven for criminal defense lawyers, in the 1970s and 1980s. You could graduate from sub-par law schools in Southern California – or from BYU and University of Utah – and establish yourself as a skilled legal practitioner. In fact, lawyers from around the nation descended on rapidly-expanding Las Vegas, during this time. If you were concerned about being a solo attorney, you could team up with a couple of friends from law school, and open up your own firm. The debt load was not bad, either. Those days are gone, Lemming.

In case you have been living under a rock for the last few years, Las Vegas has been ground zero for home and business foreclosures. Don’t be sad, when faced with present-day reality. If you want to prognisticate your level of future of success, just think of Larry Johnson, who played basketball at UNLV. He had a ten year career in the NBA, and made millions of dollars. He only has a Bachelor's degree from the school. Surely, with your higher level of education, you can make serious bank, too!


  1. But the Las Vegas economy is doing so awesome right now!

    Surely someone hanging out the solo shingle where there is an entire city of underground homeless citizens can make it big if they just have the drive and pluck to be good businessmen and women!!

  2. Nando:

    Don't know where you get the turd pictures but they sure are funny. Reading these toilet write-ups puts a smile on my face. Of course, when you consider the state of the legal profession and average student indebtness, I am not sure whether to laugh or cry.

  3. ♫I want to be an Oscar Mayer weiner, because if I was then everyone would be in love with me.♪

    Just think if this law library had 300,000 buns.

  4. I think you're reaching with this one. It's a state flagship school. It's the only law school in the state. 20k/yr tuition probably makes it one of the cheapest schools in the country. To be in the second tier after only 13 years in existence means they are doing something right. There are plenty of schools more deserving of the TTT treatment than Boyd. No, I am not a Boyd grad. Yes, I am an unemployed JD of an even better school than Boyd.

    1. UNLV is not the flagship of the state. That's funny. The University of Nevada, Reno is the flagship.

  5. ^The Vegas lawyer market isn't cornered by UNLV. By any stretch. Lawyers from around the country are still making their way to the desert. Until they make Vegas off-limits to lawyers outside of the state it doesn't matter if this is a flagship school.

    That shit might matter in places like SOuth Dakota. But that's because people from other parts don't want to live there.

    1. Ask a lawyer that doesn't graduate from Boyd how it is getting an interview with a Las Vegas firm these days.

  6. "Yes, I am an unemployed JD of an even better school than Boyd."

    So what does that tell you about the opportunities available to graduates of Boyd?

  7. You're missing the point. In a perfect situation, every state would be afforded one public law school and we would have only the very best NATIONAL private schools. As long as Boyd keeps the tuition down and keeps improving in the rankings, they are doing it the right way and it is a decent option for in-staters.. The opportunities available to Boyd students are virtually no different than the opportunities available to students from virtually any school ranked between 20-70 (Graduate in the top 20% and you're good). There are plenty of school ranked between 20-70 raping students for $40,000/yr for the same opportunities. Now, when I applied to law schools, Boyd's tuition for in-state was around 12k/yr. I'm right there with you if they keep raising the tuition at such a rate. Additionally, yes, for out of staters, 33k/yr is not a good idea.

  8. I am not sure about this one either. For in-state it's not a bad deal. But Vegas is a shithole that's dependent on one industry. When the economy tanks, people have less discretionary income. Official unemployment is what, 10-12%? This isn't the school's fault but no one from out of state should go here. Unless they have great connections somehow. Or they absolutely know they want to practice law in 112 degrees. And don't give a shit about their debt.

  9. I saw this thread over at JDU.

    Look, every time I've been out to Vegas on vaca, I pick up the phone book in the timeshare and check out the attorney section. It's HUGE. Full-color glossys, you name it, the works.

    Its tempting to think that you, as a noob attorney, will get a piece of the foreclosure/BK pie. Think again. The established locals have it locked up. They can throw out the needed cash to grab the clients and will eat you alive. In this respect, Las Vegas NV us no better than Buffalo or Rochester.

    Its tempting to dream about simply relocating and hitting it big or even going as a local. Either way, you'll either end up being outgunned by the locals or used as an associate. The dreams are the same as a gambler looking to hit it big in the bright lights, neon-lit city. '

    You have a shot, but not very much of one. And the odds are against you and long.

  10. "Graduate in the top 20% and you're good."

    In your mind, this means Boyd is "doing it the right way" and is a "decent option for in-staters"? Because 80% of the student body will not be "good" after paying $44,000 COA per year in-state?

    This is part of the mentality that has produced the deluge of unneccesary lawyers and law schools: the idea that every state needs at least one law school. Nevada functioned just fine until 1998 without a single law school. States like Delaware, the Dakotas, Wyoming, Vermont and yes, Nevada that are more than well-served regionally by a plethora of law schools--why do they need law schools at all? Not only do we need to be rid of the worst toilets, we also need to be rid of ANY and all redundent schools--and that means any school in which the majority of the student body is unlikely to find employment or business as lawyers after graduation, regardless of the number of law schools in the state or the school's putative "ranking" according to USN&WR. If more than 50% of the graduates produced by the school will not be workinga as lawyers within a year, the school either does not need to exist, or needs to drastically reduce its admissions.

  11. I was in Vegas last August (by the way, terrible idea)and it was billboards as far as the eye can see- $75 uncontested divorce- $50 traffic tickets- $500 bankruptcy.. etc etc etc

  12. "I'm right there with you if they keep raising the tuition at such a rate."

    You mean like they're doing right now?

    UNLV is in a major funding crisis. Last I read up on it, they're planning to axe entire undergraduate departments and boost law school tuition. Many professors are facing reduced salaries, but to date, I haven't seen one source that indicates the law faculty is facing any salary cuts.

    Also, generally, the small-state low-enrollment publics are a good idea for locals because they've been around for a century and the local bar strongly favors them. E.g. South Dakota has been around since 1901. The entire SD Supreme Court is U.S.D. Law graduates; the A.G. is a U.S.D. Law grad.; the one S.D. judge on the 8th Circuit went to U.S.D. Law. See?

    UNLV does not have that level of saturation, nor is Nevada that insular of a state. Where did the current Nevada Supreme Court attend law school? Wayne State, Cal-Hastings, Cal-Davis, Loyola, Denver, Wash U., and Pacific.

    How do you think those two states are comparable in their attitude towards in-state and out-of-state grads? Nevada is a state of carpetbaggers who left other areas. The other states are places where people stayed.

  13. To be fair, a legal education may help the grad interpret and enforce certain rules while working as a poker dealer. For example, what is forward motion?

  14. ""Graduate in the top 20% and you're good."

    And that's one of the biggest problems with MOST law schools. The filtering to be able to works as a lawyer is should be BEFORE law school and not after.

    Also, when law schools brag about their libraries, it clearly shows how out of touch legal academia is with reality. It doesn't matter how many books there are, these days it's all digital. One can access any document, from any library, anywhere through the internet. Libraries have become storage units of relics, yet law schools keep bragging about these impractical museums.


    Check out this site. Las Vegas attorney Joseph A. Scalia bills his office as “THE $500 LAW FIRM.” He also refers to himself as “Baldie” – in order to attract clients. Who knows? He may be an ass-kicker in court. If you have tickets, are looking for representation in bankruptcy proceeding, or facing a DUI – and you have $500 – then “El Pelon” wants you to give him a call! He also registered the nickname.

    Las Vegas family law and PI firm The Wright Law Offices advertises itself as “Accessible, Aggressive, Affordable.” It’s nice to know that you can move for sole custody of your child, on the cheap, isn’t it?!

    Murphy & Murphy Law Offices runs the Nevada PI Law blog. Check out this entry:

    “What You Need to Know About Las Vegas Discount Lawyers, Reduced Fee Lawyers and Cut-Rate Lawyers

    Lawyers in Las Vegas have started advertising campaigns claiming to be “discount lawyers”, “reduced fee lawyers”, and and other versions of “cut-rate lawyers.” You must know a few things about the claimed discounts and how it could affect your case. Before hiring a lawyer or law firm that claims to be a discount or bargain priced lawyer, read the contract you will be required to sign. What are the terms of the contract that entitle you to the discounted attorney’s fees that will be charged for your representation? All of the advertisements for the discounted lawyer fees have disclaimers and conditions. In most instances, to qualify for the discounted rate, your case must be settled very quickly and with minimal effort. More likely than not, your claim must not involve any hands on work by an attorney. Instead, your claim will be handled by an employee who has no legal training or, at best, may have some minimal legal education for the performance of non-legal aspects of case handling. However, once a certain amount of time has gone by or the case requires more than minimal efforts, the amount charged by the cut-rate attorney will increase significantly. You will then be stuck with a cut-rate attorney who is charging you full price for handling your case. Worse than that, your claim will still probably be handled by the non-attorney staff person without any legal training.”

    Isn’t it great to see PI lawyers hawking their consumer’s guide to Nevada car crashes, and then turning around to go after “cut-rate lawyers”?!?!

    Do you believe that YOU, as a recently-admitted lawyer, can compete with these crafty, legal veterans? Do you think – for one second – that you can match their advertising budgets?!?! They will blow your ass out of the water, with their non-stop TV and radio commercials. Will clients contact your incompetent, inexperienced hide - or will they go with El Pelon?!

  16. To Nando:

    I come to your blog solely for entertainment. I'm not a lawyer although I almost ended went to law school.

    UNLV may be a pile of dry waste, but I think the worst offenders are those second and third rate schools in NY, LA, and other big cities. Kids think going to Fordham, Cardozo, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Southwestern, Loyola, Pepperdine, Kent Chicago, Northeastern (I could go on and on...)will get them a great job once they finish, but holy smokes,those jobs have been taken by the Columbia, NYU, UCLA, Harvard, U.Chicago grads. So it ends up you've spent a ton of money on a big city law school and have nothing but a big pileof debt to show for it.

    At least the UNLV grads don't have their dreams dashed as badly and don't owe as much.

    Keep up the great and hilarious work!

  17. ^This is ultimately my point. I'd take UNLV in-state over Wake Forest, Tulane, W&M, W&L, American etc. UNLV in-state can be done for less than 100k. Tons of much higher ranked schools will leave you 200k+ in debt for the same 1/5 shot at the big time. I know you've reported on American and Tulane (I think), but you need to hit every private school ranked out of the top 20 charging over 40k/yr. In some ways, these schools are even worse than the Cooleys of the world because fools think paying 200k to go to Tulane is a good idea when at this point only a true moron would pay for Cooley or its bretheren in the gutter.

  18. I guess to summarize, UNLV is bad, but there are far, FAR worse schools around perpetuating the scam.

  19. What is a "phone book"?

  20. ^^ One of these things is not like the others.....

    "I'd take UNLV in-state over Wake Forest, Tulane, W&M, W&L, American etc."

    W&M is a small state school - In-state tuition is $21,646.

    Not defending the scam...just saying.

  21. Vegas is saturated with lawyers. Why do you think you see so many assholes offering their services for such low rates?

    Go by the strip. And look at the ad benches, for immigration and family shitlawyers. Look at the lawyer ads on buses and billboards. Trying to crack that market, as a newbie, is like trying to bang the chick that is blowing ten dicks at the moment. Sure you might catch AIDS and die. But law school kills you financially, as it is.

  22. While this isn't the smelliest commode Nando has covered, it is still a commode, for sure.


    Las Vegas fell to 128th in the rankings during the recession in 2008 and 2009, and since the recovery has begun, its ranking has fallen to 146th. That’s better than only Dublin, Ireland (150); Dubai (149); Barcelona, Spain (148); and Thessaloniki, Greece (147).

    The report said the patchy recovery that took hold in most U.S. cities in 2009 and 2010 hasn’t played out in Las Vegas. The area’s income levels declined 1.2 percent during that time despite an increase nationally, and the employment rate dipped 3 percent, much greater than the national decline of 0.7 percent.

    The report also cited Las Vegas’ foreclosure problem with the second-highest share of bank-owned homes in the country and more than two-thirds of residential mortgage holders owing more than their homes are worth.

    “If the first year (of recovery) is any indication for Las Vegas, it could be a long, slow road ahead with the overhang from a damaged real estate market,” Alan Berube, senior fellow and research director at Brookings Metropolitan Policy Program, told the Sun. “It’s going to take time to sort through that.”

    For a decade and a half before the Great Recession, Las Vegas added jobs at a

    4.9 percent annual pace with booming construction, real estate and gaming industries. Nationally, Las Vegas was ranked No. 1 and the closest was Phoenix, ranked 20th globally.

    The city’s decline was like that of economies in Eastern Europe — “a house of cards,” Berube said. The rankings measure jobs, job growth and income — all categories that have taken hits with a current jobless rate of 14.1 percent, Berube said.

  24. I am a hiring partner for an intellectual property firm is Washington, DC, and we have hired quite a few UNLV grads. I myself am a Princeton School of Law graduate (Class of '83), and I can attest to the quality of lawyers UNLV produces. My firm regularly conducts OCIs at UNLV, and thus consider it to be a top school in the west.

    Anyway, you should shut the fuck up about things you know absolutely NOTHING about. UNLV is a nationally recognized firm, and I know many UNLV grads that work on Wall Street. Now maybe it is not on the same level as Princeton, but it is a damn good law school.

  25. ^^^^^ This fucking troll just doesn't quit with his schtick.

    Also, umm.. "UNLV is a nationally recognized firm"


    Hey Troll, your cut-and-paste skills are ridiculous... Partner my ass.. Princeton my ass.. Janitor: likely.

  26. Princeton does not have a law school. Go suck a bag of dicks and shut the fuck up now. Cheers.

  27. Lionel Hutz? Is that you?

  28. There are far worse schools than Wake Forest, Tulane, W&M, W&L, and American also. So? I still stand by the position that if more students than not will be unemployed a year after graduation, the school is a commode. Period.

  29. June 22, 2011 1:32 PM

    LOVED the Princeton School of Law reference! Excellent satire.

  30. Nando:
    You should do a special on Princeton School of Law. I've heard it sucks!

  31. I practice in Vegas. Established firms are very weary of Boyd grads after 13 years. Most firms in town still hire out of state, mostly from BYU and Utah. If you don't believe me, go check the firm profiles. There are a few token UNLV grads, but for the most part, Vegas is dominated by outside schools.

    And unless you're Jewish, Mormon or a Vegas local, I don't care where you went to school or what your grades were, you're not getting a job here. Those three groups pretty much make up the entire bar and control business and politics. Everybody else is just passing through as a guest (think Pat Webb from 'Casino').

    Also, UNLV just raised in state tuition to $25,000. FYI.

    1. "Also, UNLV just raised in state tuition to $25,000. FYI."

      I'm paying in-state they didn't.

    2. To the apologist cockroach above:

      "Tuition & Fees
      2012-2013 Tuition and Fees

      Nevada resident tuition, full-time: $23,900"

      Apparently, you are upset because the other poster was off by $1,100. However, take the following charges into consideration, bitch:

      "In addition to tuition, law students will be charged the following fees each semester:

      Graduate student association fee: $18
      Study Abroad Scholarship Fund: $2
      Law student activity fee: $50
      Rebel recycling fee: $1
      Student health fee: $72
      Student life facilities fee: $173
      Technology fee: $4 (per credit hour)
      iNtegrate fee: $3 (per credit hour)"

      Break out a calculator, Dumbass. As you can see these figures are listed on a per-semester basis. If a full-time student takes 15 credit hours, he will pay $60 in technology costs plus $45 for iNtegrate each semester. With the other fees added in, this amounts to $421 - or $842 for the academic year. This obviously excludes the international student fee.

      Try not to lose any sleep over the fact that someone misstated the total by a mere $258. Put your thumb in your mouth, and console yourself, idiot.

  32. I bet you could train perfectly fine lawyers with the ability and self-confidence to run their own practices by revamping the law school curriculum in the following manner:

    Semester One and Two: a bar review type course to learn the basics fast, and a couple of classes in legal writing and research.

    Semester Three: Student follows around Baldie or El Pelon or some moderately successful practitioner. Learns how to run an office, negotiate a settlement, and familiarizes him or herself with circuit court gruntwork.

    Semester Four: Student interns with the prosecutor or public defender's office. Learns how to try a case and how to write an appeal.

    All this can be done without Professor $216,105.96's legal ethics seminars, without the fox case, without the staggeringly inefficient caselaw method of teaching, without classroom-bullying-calling-itself-the-Socratic method, without critical race and gender theory, and without idiotic your-whole-life-is-riding-on-it exams where you have two hours to IRAC 14 different issues from some ludicrous hypothetical involving Polly Plaintiff and Danny Defendant.

  33. ^But as long as the lemmings keep coming, why rock the boat?

  34. ^^and how will law students cope without exhaustive study of SCOTUS cases from 1922?

  35. Even "The Defenders," that show about Las Vegas lawyers got cancelled. Just as an aside, it was hilarious how every week they ended up defending clients wrongly accused, set up by the police, or framed by the real perp. It's garbage like this that convinces people to go to TTT sinkholes. They see Jerry O'Connell, the well dressed, strikingly handsome champion of the downtrodden and oppressed. They don't see traffic court, crack whores, doc review, and pi ambulance chasing.

  36. As stated above (split between 3+ posts) what good is graduating from the State's "flagship" school if you aren't employed a year after graduation?

    You'll never pay off the avg. $75K debt. Ever. Now, you're simply another broke schmuck in Vegas. And, hilariously, you never even had a shot to win by betting the $75K on the line one time in a casino.

    The only guaranteed winner in this situation is the school; the house. And the house always wins.

    The place is controlled by a small, select group. Does it matter if you're a local if you're not part of the local, connected class, which is always a very small piece of the local pop. which will attend there?

    The allure of attending law school in a place like Las Vegas is huge for someone out of state. In addition to blowing tuition dollars, they can further piss away their money on gambling and whores, etc. Perpetual brokeness.

    Then you come out and have guys like El Pelon who have cornered the low-class semi-criminal Hispanic market in LV and are bilingual. And he has the funds to blow noobies away..

    The school is a toilet. One poster wrote that the local firms are very wary of Boyd grads. That's nice. You don't even have homefield rep.

    The school is only recently in existence, etc. Believe me, they are playing all the angles. $75K is life-changing money which will kill 99% of the grads. And, as also said, judging by the price competition, the odds of making enough to ever pay that back are worse than the Lottery.

  37. Let me also add that unless you speak Spanish, you won't find a job.

    So, in summary, the only people who should attend UNLV law are local, Mormon returned missionaries who served a spanish speaking mission. And when I mean local Mormon, I mean your family rolled in on a wagon 100 years ago and has some type of business or industry in town cornered.

    That's not you? You're not a Mormon with the last name of Leavitt, Bunker or Stewart? You are Mormon but you went to Iowa on your mission?

    Sorry. You're screwed.

  38. I agree with 6:47.

    That is how you would learn how to practice law.
    They could teach biglaw practice areas the same way.

    If I were a law professor, I'd gather depo & trial transcripts, pleadings,etc from the best lawyers and biggest cases, analyze them, and assemble it all into a big TEXT BOOK (not casebook) that shows in detail how the best lawyers operate. Every three weeks I'd give a scantron multiple choice exam on how well the students know the textbook.

    But law profs are just failed junior associates who don't know a thing about law. So they "research" Critical race theory or Coase's theorem ("theorem", as though any of those fools could solve a simple freshman calculus problem).


    Take a look at this classy firm, located on Charleston Blvd. Check out their “Low Price Guarantee”:

    “We will match the price for any service we offer on the same terms and conditions of any other attorney in Las Vegas.”

    These guys handle PI, criminal defense, bankruptcy, immigration, family law, business law, and traffic tickets. Do you think that a newly-admitted Nevada attorney - with $75K-$100K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - can compete with such firms?!

    Go to page 2 of this PDF. You will see that Adam Stokes of “Ticket Busters” - now Half Price Lawyers - is quoted as saying that he advertises on pizza boxes because it is “[t]he next cereal box.” Who doesn’t want to be represented in a criminal matter by someone with such marketing ideas?!?! Does El Pelon purchase ads on pizza boxes?!

    What’s that you say, Lemming? New lawyers can under-cut those prices, develop their skills, and build a reputation as skilled, zealous advocates?!?! This belief is undermined by the fact that new lawyers have not been adequately prepared to practice law. We need more solos to be disciplined, or to become disbarred, right?! Furthermore, how the hell is such an attorney supposed to pay back his student loans - and keep up a private practice - on such low rates?

    This former deputy attorney general and deputy district attorney is now running his own toilet law firm. Isn’t it great to see so many experienced, skilled lawyers offering “affordable, aggressive, criminal, trial representation”?!?!

    In this Las Vegas Review-Journal article, from October 19, 2008, you can see that Donn Ianuzi - after practicing law for 19 years - ran for a district court judge position. That must mean that the legal job market is excellent, right?!

    The commenter who posted at 6:35 pm and 9:36 pm will not be surprised to see the firm bios for attorneys at Cohen, Johnson & Day:

    Steven L. Day earned his JD from the University of Utah; Steven B. Cohen received his law degree from the University of Arizona; and H. Stan Johnson graduated from the J. Reuben Clark Law School at Brigham Young University. James R. Nance is vague. His bio simply notes that he worked his way through law school, and speaks Spanish.

  40. Just graduated from Boyd Law. I have a job, and most my classmates do as well. A job in the legal field I should add (clerking for a judge then working at a firm). In fact I would say most of my classmates have legal work lined up. Wish the school was as cheap as when I started but all is not lost in this town - despite the plethora of lawyer ads, I think per capita Las Vegas still does not have that many attorneys compared to Los Angeles.

  41. Las Vegas is ahead of the game. All of us in the Plaintiffs bar in other states are going to soon reduce our fees for settled without litigation PI cases to 15-20% for many reasons. These kids that graduate now with no jobs will soon start doing this to get business and the rest of us will have to follow suit.

    These billed v. paid legislations are only making it worse.

    Dont go to law school kids at these prices when your services are slowly being valued lower.

  42. I won't comment about this school as I have never heard of it before. Although in the '90s, I made some money betting on the Runnin' Rebels.

    I have been to Vegas several times and I can confirm what other posters have said about the state of the legal profession in Sin City. Lawyers are a dime a dozen. I remember during a stay at the Bellagio, I turned the TV on and saw an ad for a bankruptcy attorney who would go into a phone booth with a suit and come out with a superhero costume with a big "B" on his chest. The guy was charging $499 for bankruptcies.

    I remember this ad well because when I returned to NY, I met a young lawyer who was moving to Vegas to start a bankruptcy firm. Long story short, he went to Vegas, sunk $40K into opening an office and came back to NY in under 6 months. He simply could not compete with the established attorneys. Can you imagine competing with lawyers charging $50 for DUIs, $399 for Divorces and $499 for bankruptcies? You see noobs, these people can afford to charge that because they handle thousands of cases per year. Volume practice = low fees. No name recognition + reasonable legal fees = FAILURE. The same thing that happened in Vegas is happening in Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago and NYC.

    Last thought. I met a kid last night who is a 3L at a TTT in NY (think Cardozo/Fordham). He has no job lined up, has $180K in student loans but has his heart set on practicing "corporate law." When I told him that corporate law was dead, I then asked him what his fallback plan was. His reply: "I would try to practice international law by applying to work for the United Nations Human Rights Commission. I walked away before I spit my drink out. I swear, these lemmings are getting dumber every year.

  43. Whatever else may be said, the stratification of the legal industry continues. You'll have the highbrows from the elite schools scoring gigs at the UNHRC, for example, and anyone else, essentially, wrestling in the mud over DUI's and bankruptcy. They gotta make this stuff clear to these poor unsuspecting kids beforehand, but these toilets of law only want those tuition dollars, no matter what.

  44. 'I swear, these lemmings are getting dumber every year.'

    Yes they are. I met one grad from a shithole in Oregon. He wanted to practice environmental law. No backup plan. He volunteered his legal skills for legal aid before he ended up doing non-law. Someone should've told idealistic fuck that environmental law means either A. working for corporate polluters such as BP or Exxon or B. making peanuts at some shit-ass legal aid society. Lot of debt and he never even got to use the degree. (At least not for a paid job that is.) This is worse than shelling out serious cash on a date and going home empty handed. With the date you at least got something out of going out. You only wasted one night. You didn't waste six figures. And you can call up an old gf for a bootie call or blow job.

  45. "When I told him that corporate law was dead, I then asked him what his fallback plan was. His reply: "I would try to practice international law by applying to work for the United Nations Human Rights Commission. I walked away before I spit my drink out. I swear, these lemmings are getting dumber every year."

    I would have had the same reaction as you did. What are kids these days thinking? They've been brainwashed into believing that they can do anything they want to do. Probably listened to their boomer parents and the law professors too much. But hey, at least the law professors got another victim.

  46. As a student at UNLV William S. Boyd School of Law, you can write onto the prestigious Nevada Law Journal. (I’m surprised the school is not congratulating itself on having the only academic law journal, in the state.)

    “Welcome to our website! The Nevada Law Journal is published by students of the William S. Boyd School of Law at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. The NLJ is a journal of legal scholarship dedicated to analyzing the law and policy implications of significant case law, legislation, administrative regulations and important legal events. The NLJ publishes at least three issues per year and includes submissions by legal practitioners, professors, and students of the William S. Boyd School of Law. Additionally, topics concerning legal symposia, surveys, and tributes to important figures of the law are included.”

    Check out the dean’s me$$age:

    “UNLV's Boyd School of Law is a wonderful place to spend a few rigorous years. Thank you for considering us to start your legal career. Ours is an exciting environment for legal education, in a vibrant city which has embraced the law school. You will find here a supportive environment where your success matters to the faculty, your classmates, and the community.”

    Does anyone with an IQ above 75 still believe that Las Vegas is a vibrant city?!?! There are some nice suburban areas, i.e. Green Valley, The Lakes, Summerlin, etc. However, keep in mind that many Mormon/LDS families reside there – and are up to their ass in mortgage debt. Frankly, many of these homeowners are underwater. It is not unusual to see a young LDS family living in a McMansion, even though the man is the sole income-provider – so that the young wife can stay home and raise the children – and he only makes $35K-$45K per year.

    Remember that Mormons stress appearances, more than many other sub-cultures. Have you ever been to an LDS home and seen “the perfect family”? That is merely the image they portray. I have known such families, and then found out later on that the husband was banging his secretary – or had pissed away his family’s nest egg on some dumbass Ponzi scheme. By the way, this is CERTAINLY not limited to Mormons living in “Sin City.”

    “Utah ranks fourth worst in the nation for foreclosure rates — one of every 322 housing units. Only Nevada, Arizona and California are worse. But a house-by-house mapping analysis by The Tribune of nearly 77,200 records provided by foreclosure-listing company RealtyTrac paints an even more complex and troubling picture.”

    Note that there are plenty of LDS families in Nevada, Arizona and California, as well.

  47. Going after Mormons now?

    Aw, what the hell. I've noticed that many are shallow also. To top it off they even sacrifice 10% of their income to keep up appearances.

  48. This comment has been removed by the author.

  49. I hope this is a joke. Don't harm yourself because the higher education cocksuckers lied to you and everyone else. If it comes to it, just leave this country. It's a giant shithole anyway. Las Vegas is one small sliver of shit.

  50. "And you can call up an old gf for a bootie call or blow job." June 23, 2011 9:45 AM

    Well put.

  51. As a Boyd student I can tell you that they just jacked up tuition to $24K. At least when it used to be $8000 per year it was a good idea to go to law school here.

    Boyd's reputation is great in Nevada but that doesn't do jack shit when a ton of graduating 3L's have nothing lined up in terms of employment beyond a clerkship.

  52. My cousin graduated from this dump 3 years ago. When the market was better. He was a clerk at a district court level and had internships during LS. All he could land was shitlaw. He doesn't practice anymore.

    Others have already said it. This market is filled with TTTT grads from California, New York, CHicago...basically the whole fucking country. These newer guys don't have much shot to succeed.

  53. @ June 22, 2011 6:47 PM

    Yours is one of the best comments I have read on this board. With your idea, law school would be practical, and would send out at least minimally competent lawyers. Even better, the students would quickly get a sense of whether the practice of law was something they actually want to do. A few months of representing crackheads who break into junkyards to steal scrap metal might change some impressionable minds about the majesty of the law.

    Not that any plan to change the useless academic focus of law school will happen anytime soon. The tenured professors could not teach students how to practice anything. Most probably would not know where or how to file a complaint at the local courthouse. Instead, law students will get to keep on taking tests with nuclear missle trucks skidding off highways flooded because someones private pond overflowed onto a road while a trespassing child peeks through a hole in a neighbors fence and is injured in the eye by a gunshot fired by a drunken nuclear arms protestor who is alarmed by the sound of the nuclear missle truck's brakes. Because things like that happen all the time. Much better to test students on issues like those than to do something impractical like have them work with actual attorneys representing people injured in car accidents or in workplace incidents.

    "When I told him that corporate law was dead, I then asked him what his fallback plan was. His reply: "I would try to practice international law by applying to work for the United Nations Human Rights Commission. I walked away before I spit my drink out. I swear, these lemmings are getting dumber every year."

    The lemmings who believe that this sort of career is actually going to happen for them are probably beyond help. At the same time, the law schools don't work too hard to prevent potential students from believing that completely unrealistic career paths are possible. Every piece of crap law school advertises their International Law programs like the only thing between you and being UN Secretary General is their Certificate in International Law. Nothing really happens in the three years of law school to extinguish the stars in the hopeful lemmings eyes.

    Practical legal education would kill off most of the fantasy of being a lawyer pretty quickly. Which would also kill off law school enrollment pretty quickly. Which is why, barring a serious uprising against the worthlessness of legal education as it exits now, law school will continue to be three expensive, wasted years.

  54. I think I'm on the outs Nando, with a lot of your readers.

    Just let me know if you want me to withdraw from your blog list.

    Fair is fair after all.

  55. ^Just cut the drama, JDpainterguy.

  56. June 23, 2011 5:54 PM:

    LOVED the vivid illustration of what I call "Palsgraf Syndrome" in law school. Of being tested on these useless scenarios, year after year.

    What a great gig, huh? "Teaching" this arcane, useless crap to the kids for a six-figure salary. No way they're going to give up the present system easy, especially not with th "let-them-eat-cake" attitude of the ABA, which could not care less about the kids.

  57. ^And that's why I think the ABA is the biggest problem and the most rewarding target. Just get rid of it, bring someone competent, and all these TTTs close shop in no time. And remember that the ABA recently got reprimanded by the DOE for not having "set a standard for job placement by its member institutions," among other things. With a job placement rule, I am sure that nearly all the diploma mills will close.

    I wish the ABA would get fired!

  58. Sounds like a bunch of losers who are better google image searching shit rather than getting theirs together and hustling. be all of you!

  59. ^Sounds like a lemming who has his little heart and mind set on going to law school regardless of the overwhelming evidence that law is a crapshoot. Get a life, asshole.

    ILLUMINATI - College Conspiracy

  61. "Sounds like a bunch of losers who are better google image searching shit rather than getting theirs together and hustling. be all of you!

    June 23, 2011 9:43 PM"

    Dear Legal Superstud at 9:43:

    Share with us some of your courtroom war stories, and I'll tell you if you are full of shit or not, rookie.

  62. June 24, 2011 @ 7:00AM

    You sound a lot like my ex-brother-in-law. In 2003, against my advice my then brother-in-law enrolled in law school. Despite what you have heard, even in 2003 when the economy was booming, graduating from a TTT law school was an extremely risky proposition. My former brother-in-law would tell my sister that I was jealous and wanted to "horde" my success in the legal profession. I told this fellow that I went to law school in a different era for practically peanuts i.e., full ride, and that I was able to secure employment easily having graduated from a T30 in the top third of my class (secondary journal). Well, this guy bad mouthed me and told my sister that he was going to prove me wrong and outmatch me.

    Epilogue: My sister divorced the loser last year. He graduated from a TTT with $110K in student loan debt (he got a joint JD/MBA degree) and could not break into the legal profession having graduated in the top 20% of his class and law review at his TTT. He sells insurance policies for a living today, working on commissions. My sister divorced this loser for having a "woe is me" attitude and can you believe he actually blames me for his failures and told my sister that I didn't try hard enough to talk him out of law school. I mean what was I supposed to do? Tie him to a chair?

    Nowadays, when kids ask me about law school, I just tell them to go. If you tell them not to go, they will think you are a douche. If you tell them to go, they will still consider you a douche after wasting 3 years and incurring indentured servitude. It is a losing proposition anyway you look at it.

    BTW: I looked at the Pelon's website. Nevada must have some very laxed attorney advertising rules. In NJ, El Pelon would be sanctioned or suspended for his advertising, which is misleading. He does not charge $500 for every case. In fact, if you move your cursor over the bankruptcy hyperlink it reads "$500.00 x 2." Also, this assclown is not Hispanic. He may be born of immigrant parents (Italian) but he does not fool me. He shaved his head and grew a goatee to look the part and may be fluent in Spanish but in no way is he down with "La Raza." I give him credit though. Even I do not have the gall to shave my head and tan myself black to appeal to the African-American community.

  63. ^^^ I meant to address the poster of June 23, 2011 @ 9:43PM not the June 24, 2011 @ 7:03AM poster.

  64. First step: cause the collapse of the banking sector through DEBTORS' REVOLT: an intentional default-en-masse. Just stop paying your student loans, etc. If enough people - doesn't need to be everyone, just a critical mass, say 25% - intentionally default, the financial sector will spiral into a desirable collapse.

  65. June 24, 2011 11:46 AM:

    Nicely done. It is indeed a risky proposition (non-elite law school, that is) in this era. Relative to total cost (and not even counting opportunity cost during school) it's a real gamble. Yet, some are bitterly offended when the scambloggers merely point out the very real risks of law school.

    Plus, as an added "bonus", the JD carries unique stigma, in that it is essentially LOATHED by the non-law community. From what I have seen, non-law employers (whom many of these TTT grads will in fact be dealing with) brutalize JD-holders, grilling them mercilessly on why they are not in the "lucrative" practice of law. Such employers will not, by contrast, so treat someone with the equally-useless Master's in Art History.

    Only the JD is an actual hindrance to non-legal employment. It's like the academic equivalent of an STD.

  66. 11;46 is right. The El Pelon character is Italian. That makes him white. Even though it is swarthy or ethnic white. It should be considered misleading info too. Because he is definitely going to charge you more than $500. Do non english speaking Hispanic immigrants aware of this when they look at his ads?

  67. 6/24/11; 1:23PM

    We have a Kenyan born President. The fact that an Italian is the number 1 lawyer in the Hispanic community in Nevada doesn't shock me.

    My Spanish may be rusty but in my opinion, El Pelon es un gran huevon.

  68. I had a friend ask me about law school today and whether it was hard. I told him law school was like being assraped with a cactus, and I'm talking about the bigass ones in the desert, not the pussy ones you buy at the store.

    I told him every day is an assrape when you know the whole system is just an excuse for the professors to make money.

  69. The Obama Deception -

  70. I saw the Obama Deception a few months before Barry Soetoro took the "oath" of office. Isn't the documentary amazingly precient? I mean everyone and their momma was touting him as the "Messiah" and a little known libertarian by the name of Alex Jones nearly predicted everything Obama has done (e.g., waging more wars, not being transparent, citizen army violating our consitutional rights [TSA patdowns, naked body scanners, police state], bailing out Wall Street while pretending to care for Main Street, keeping Gitmo open, expanding program of extra-judicial assasinations [Osama was killed without a trial, a judge or a jury to decide his fate], etc. It is nice to see other people "waking" up to the largest con in our history.

  71. And, while people get all whipped up into a frenzy over Obama and his failings, the NEW WORLD ORDER will slip in one of their pre-approved boys, like, for example, Rick Perry of Texas, whom the very same crowd of dupes won't find offensive because, after all, he is white, "conservative", and from Texas, so he can't be all bad, right? Suckers.

    BOHICA: Bend Over, Here It Comes Again!



    Check out this briefing paper, from the Nevada Board of Regents:

    "At the April 16, 2010 meeting the Board of Regents approved the FY 12 and FY13 Tuition and Fees for the UNLV William S. Boyd School of Law. Given the 94.2% increase in resident fees for the current biennium, there was no increase for FY12 over the existing FY11 fee level, but the Board did approve a 3% increase in fees for FY13. However, as a result of the Legislative budget reductions for FY12 and FY13, the Law School is presenting a proposal for additional increases in tuition and fees for Board of Regent consideration."

    Now head to page 5 of this PDF, to see how tuition at the William $. Boyd Sewer of Law has SKYROCKETED over the last three years.

    In 2008-2009, in-state, full-time law students were charged $10,300 in tuition. (For $ome rea$on, the bitches who drafted this document refer to these costs as "registration fees." This is not elementary school, dishonest cockroaches.) For the 2009-2010 school year, law tuition for these students increased by 74 percent - to $18,000!! In 2010-2011, in-state, full-time tuition "only" increased by 11.11 percent, to reach $20,000.

    As you can see, full-time tuition for Nevada residents will increase by 19.5% in 2011-2012, for a grand sum of $23,900. (Non-residents who attend this dung heap will only see an increase of $1,500 in tuition, from 2010-2011 to 2011-2013.)

    Think about that for a minute. IN THE SPAN OF THREE YEARS, FULL-TIME LAW TUITION FOR IN-STATE RESIDENTS INCREASED BY 132 PERCENT. Now do you see why I highlighted this toilet?!?!

    Furthermore, Las Vegas has been decimated by recent home and business foreclosure crises. As I have shown, the legal job market is cornered by EXPERIENCED, skilled lawyers who can offer cut-rate prices for their work. They can do so, because of the volume of cases their offices handle. A recent graduate of UNLV's sewer of law cannot expect to compete with these toiletlawyers. This field has been glutted, for decades.

    "A well informed commenter just noted that THIRD TIER REALITY, a blog purportedly created to "inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school," just B-slapped the William S. Boyd School of Law.

    The article begins with a picture of what looks like horse poop, and then.. well you should read for yourselves.

    Are you Boyd students and alumni going to just let them get away with that? What about You, Mr. State Assemblyman 7?"

    By the way, the Assembly member for District 7 is a woman, dumbass.


    Welcome to the Roman Circus, people. Las Vegas is ground zero, with regard to the housing foreclosure crisis and unemployment. But the state board of (idiotic) regents has approved plans for a 40,000 domed stadium for UNLV’s athletic teams.

    On February 11, 2011, The Las Vegas Sun reported these foolish plans:

    “The Nevada Board of Regents on Friday approved a 150-day agreement to negotiate with Majestic Realty Co. to build a 40,000-seat domed stadium on the UNLV campus.

    If built, the facility could house UNLV football on campus and the Runnin’ Rebel basketball team would get a new home. The stadium also could house the National Finals Rodeo in December.”

    The story continues:

    “Earlier this week, IDM unveiled the three-venue $1.57 billion Las Vegas National Sports Center. That proposal, identified for downtown Las Vegas, includes plans for a 17,500-seat arena for basketball and hockey, a 9,000-seat partially enclosed baseball stadium and a 50,000-seat partially enclosed football stadium. The baseball and football stadiums could be expanded to 36,000 and 75,000 seats, respectively, to host Major League Baseball and the National Football League.

    The proposed complex would be located in downtown Las Vegas on 70 acres northeast of the World Market Center near the Spaghetti Bowl freeway interchange of Interstate 15 and U.S. 95. IDM said it would offer a $1-a-year lease to UNLV sports teams to play in the facilities.

    When regents discussed the proposal, most of the controversy centered around the exclusivity of the agreement with Roski’s group.”

    Guess what, cretins?!?! UNLV men’s basketball had its glory days in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Those days are gone. Sure, the team may have had a recent revival – but I don’t see this program kicking everyone’s ass by 30 points, like the Tarkanian squads. By the way, bitches: the top-flight Thomas & Mack Center has a good history, and is larger than this proposed arena. Lastly, the football team has always been a joke.

    Also, why does a (weary) city with about 585,000 people – and a metro population of under 2 million residents – need a $1.57 BILLION national sports center?!?! Also, does it make sense to build new baseball, basketball/hockey, and football stadiums – when there are no MLB, NBA/NHL or NFL teams located in Las Vegas?!

    For those who defend such moronic, economic plans, I apologize for employing logic and reason into the discussion. Enjoy your circus.

  75. Here is an indisputable fact about Las Vegas: There are more losers in Las Vegas than winners. If you enroll at Boyd, you might have a better chance of blowing $20K on the craps tables and coming out a winner than graduating from this relatively unknown commode.

    I wasn't going to comment on the stadium project but I feel compelled to as sports complex projects are one of the biggest scams on the taxpayer right up there with the $800 hammers that the Dept. of Defense would appropriate back in the '80s (the hammer now costs $1,456 with inflation factored in).

    Ok, back to the stadiums. Every professional team nowadays wants a new stadium every 10 years. The owners approach City Hall and threaten to leave the city if it doesn't get a new stadium. The residents in true pavlovian style cry "we don't want our beloved 'Las Vegas Losers' to leave town." City Hall agrees to pay for the new stadium and then hikes the residents' taxes to pay for the owners' new stadium. Also, these projection numbers are a farce. If you look at the history of stadium construction in the last 50 years, no stadium has been built under or within the initial budget. Take for example the Prudential Arena in Newark which was finished in 2006. When it was proposed, the project initially had a budget of $250M. The finished product with touch-ups cost almost double that or $400M. Guess who gets the money? Corrupt contractors that stuff politicians' pockets and wind up overcharging for subpar building materials and illegal alien day laborers. The professional team owners make money by getting generous tax waivers and all the while City Hall is promising that the stadium construction will bolster the local economy by providing a few dozen minimum wage jobs (e.g., ticket stub punchers, concession stand cashiers, etc.).

    If Vegas is in the process of building these superfluous stadiums, you better believe palms were greased, pockets were stuffed with envelopes filled with cash and YOU (e.g., the taxpaying resident or Boyd law student) will pay for it in the form of tax and tuition hikes. What a lovely system we live under.

  76. Well done, Nando. You are doing a superb job shaming these schools and individuals.

    It is clear that academia (and others) are disconnected with reality. he whole thing is a bubble, and bubble eventually meets its end.

    The bubble of higher educations exists for 2 main reasons: unlimited funding from student loans, and the notion that education always pays off. Well, I think the latter is starting to be questioned (in part because of the scamblogs), and the former is starting to reach a boiling point. The of the current system of higher education is very near.

  77. Nando,

    When are you going to stop beating this dead horse?

    It's not all hopeless... sure, I made you angry in the past and twisted my history to avoid identification, but after I graduated last year I found a legal job. Okay, I didn't have it lined up right out of school, but I had another offer that I turned down because it seemed like too much work for too little pay. Even better, I'm now in with the federal govt, so my future is a little more secure (although I'll never get rich here...).

    So, I went to one of your "commode schools" in the University of Pittsburgh, I was not in the top 10 or even 20 percent of my class, and I was able to find something worthwhile within a year. I'm also a white male, so I didn't have any minority benefit going for me.

    Granted, it's not worth the price of admission for most people who default into attending law school or who go with dreams of being the next Lincoln Lawyer asshole, but it's also not impossible if you keep your debt in check.

    Your good buddy,


  78. Which federal agency you with, Doug?

  79. P.S.: Well done, by the way. Not a whole lot of hiring being done by the feds right now in, I assume, legal.

    And, they can ask for Ivy these days. Well done, indeed. Your first job out of law school, I take it, made the difference?

  80. Doug is full of shit. He came on this site last year claiming he was a 1L. Now we are to believe he graduated law school in less than a year? This fucker is a law school shill, a poor one at that.

  81. Hey guys, I threw my hat into the ring and made a scamblog. Let me know what you all think.

  82. @turde: awesome! new bloggers are much needed with sms leaving and jjd riding off into the sunset. added to my blogroll.

  83. As I've said...I did not provide accurate details to protect my identity, so I was not a 1L, which should have been obvious at the time if you'd have paid attention.

    Anyway, the Fed Agency is the Treasury Dept.

    Doesn't matter to me if you believe it, I'm just saying it isn't impossible to find a job. The feds ARE hiring, but you have to be willing to relocate and count on starting at the bottom..


  84. BTW, regarding JJD: you're welcome!



    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Jun 26 2011 6:05am 7 actions 12m 49s
    Jun 25 2011 6:11pm 10 actions 48m 19s

    How are you doing in Richmond/Glen Allen, VA, bitch?! Any way you slice it, Doug, you are a lying piece of trash. As you *may* be aware, liars do not have any credibility.

    For those newer to the board, Doug had a blog that received about 6 visitors a day. The site was written from the perspective of a non-traditional student - and alleged former “civil servant” - who was getting ready to attend a second tier toilet or TTT.

    This is from an old RSS feed of his final blog entry:


    The fun is over, for now, but school is starting anyhow. A lot was false, but bits were true, but must was just to have fun with…”

    In sum, you are a TOTAL FRAUD, Doug. You were exposed as such, and you even admit that "a lot was false." How does it feel to be exposed as a pathological liar yet again, bitch?!?!

    Why would any practicing lawyer feel the need to LIE and try to pass himself off as a mere law school applicant? If you want to defend the industry, then so proudly as a licensed attorney. Don’t be a pussy and hide behind a fabrication.

    By the way, thank you for the breaking news that it isn’t impossible to find a job. I never said that was the case, Stupid. Hell, I have mentioned that one former TTT classmate landed a job with the IRS, and now lives in Reston, VA. You CLEARLY have not developed sufficient reading comprehension skills. That is embarrassing.

    For instance, this piece of garbage claimed to be STARTING law school last August. Now, he asserts that he has graduated, and is now working at the U.S. Department of the Treasury. (Dumbass now claims to be a white male, after posting a picture of a bald, black man as his profile image. Who knows? Maybe he was simply publishing a photo of his wife's boyfriend.)

    Check out Doug’s May 18, 2011 9:02 pm comment on this thread:

    “PS: Just graduated myself and am on vacation celebrating...and DO have a job lined up making more than you, loser!”

    So you graduated last year and landed a federal position - and you also just graduated this year and blew American male tourists on the sandy beaches of Rincon, Puerto Rico?!?!

    By the way, cockroach, you are welcome for yet another beatdown!

  86. HEEEEELP!!! Some sick gastroenterologically challenged scumbag just took a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuge 'SETON HALL LAW' in the office toilet! The janitor keeps flushing and flushing but it won't go down!!!!

  87. Doug is a fraud. He was exposed as a liar. I lol'd when I read the part about how he graduated last year and took less than a year to find a govt job.

    As nando points out the liar said he graduated in may 2011 and landed a job that pays well. Oh what webs we weave when we constantly, lie and lie and lie and try to deceive. Good luck with everything Dougie. I'll pray for your family that an opening in one of the local mental wards comes up soon.

  88. Doug,---more details, please. Is you job at Treasury a legal position or something else? If you graduated May 2011, did you intern there, or did you have prior-to-law-school experiences which qualified you? The reason I am asking is that it is really tough to go DIRECT into Treasury as an attorney straight out of a non-elite school. They tend to want ELITE school, high class rank, and experience. What was your class rank/where did you go for your JD?

  89. As William Carlos Williams said, in so many words:

    "The Pure Products of America go crazy, and there is no one to drive the Car."

  90. It's amazing/funny/stupid how Nando blasts people for not agreeing with him, don't you all think? Don't you all see the jealousy he has towards those with real success from real 4th tier schools? Don't you all see how he gets so upset when one travels out of the US and has a fun time doing it, looking forward to the life that will be brought on by law school.

    Hey Nando. We already won. You are the sore loser. Oh, and you are full of crap when you say everyone in law school studies the same. They don't. Half are slackers. Those people will end up like you. The other half sit in the library all the time and work it like mad. I would know, I am there in the library every day. That's why I was in the top half, no top 20% of my class at the end of the first year. EVERYONE DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK EQUAL. YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU THINK THAT.

    I just served you. Now shut this stupid ass blog down.

    The World Traveling (Nando-ass-kicking)Law Student.

    P.S. Success WILL find me! I guarantee it!

  91. June 26, 2011 2:13 PM

    There you are! Back from Panama so soon?

    WTLS, I am still asking this simple question: Can the majority of any given law school class, no matter how hard they try, get into the top 10, 20, even 30 percent of that class?

  92. WTLS: Which school you attending?

  93. Yes, the majority CAN but WON'T because only 10% can be there. Those who study the hardest, don't mess around during spring break, don't get drunk every other night, don't party like it's going out of style, learn to enjoy and love the material...they will be in the top 10% most likely. They are all able to, but not all have the willpower to do what it takes. Some won't be able to due to certain outside factors, but everyone can choose how close to the school they live, how much effort they will put in, etc.

    I wasn't out partying, being social, or hating the material, talking about how law school was hell all semester like many around me. That's why I was near the top of my class. Had I partied and all that other stuff, I would have not been, but I would have been able to be, if I gave the effort. Not everyone gives the effort. Not even close.

  94. World traveling 1L, I think nando has already managed to shove a rhino's dick up your ass a dozen times already. You have been served and backhanded. Now get the fuck out of here.

    Isn't it funny how nando keeps fucking these guys up with facts and reason and the little shits keep returning? Heehee. Isn't it funny? Wouldn't it be funny if Doug and world traveler are the same piece of shit? If not then they're probably sucking each other off at this moment.

  95. Nope, I'm wearing pants at the moment. In fact, I am not Doug, but honestly, I saw his posts and he's 100x smarter sounding than the lot of you. You are trying to make it so people don't enter a profession that was around in the Bible. W T F? You are saying that a profession that got it's start around the same time as the Garden of Eden was shut down is dying. Just my luck huh? Right when I decided to do it. I don't think so.

  96. @358:

    "a profession that was around in the Bible."

    What Bible are you reading?

    And even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that there are tens of thousands more people qualified to do than profession than the societal need.

    Between that and the guy claiming everyone who works the hardest can wind up in the top 10-20%, I don't even think the rebutters are trying anymore.

  97. How are things in Chicopee, MA, you piece of trash?

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    3:56pm 3 actions 1m 56s
    3:19pm 4 actions 19m 13s
    2:41pm 2 actions 8m 46s
    2:10pm 3 actions 11m 55s
    1:42pm 1 action 8m 40s
    10:28am 1 action 8m 40s
    10:15am 1 action 10s

    Try and find a girlfriend, who is deaf, dumb and mute. Seeing that you have a 2” penis in between your scrawny legs, she should be asexual and blind, as well. Good luck in your quest, bitch.

    After further consideration, your ass has been BLOCKED from this site. I don't mind a good argument, on the facts. However, I have a low tolerance for blatant stupidity, patent dishonesty, and willful ignorance. You are guilty on all three counts, cockroach. I provide facts, charts, logic, reason, industry statements, etc. - and you respond with childish retorts, baseless assertions, and nonsense. If you are impervious to reason, then there is no point in permitting you to spew garbage on this site.

    News flash, retard: Doug is a pathological liar. I asked JJD if the piece of trash was responsible for her taking her blog down. She responded by saying that the piece of filthy garbage played no role in her decision.

    As you can see, Doug is a lying pig. What else is new? If you want to cite him as an example of "success," then you truly are too far gone to be rehabilitated.

    Furthermore, I do not care if people travel and have fun, cockroach. For instance, I don't care that your sister and mother take turns spreading their legs to local vagrants at the bus terminal. It is their life/existence. As long as the tramps do not come on here bragging about their sexploits, then who gives a damn?

    If you are a law student living in Chicopee, MA, then you are most likely a student at the Western New England College Sewer of Law. You have my condolences. Also, remember to take your medication - for your mental instability.

    Unfortunately for you, there is no magic pill or cure for your advanced cases of neurological/cerebral, testicular, and spinal atrophy. You are dismissed, turd! It has been fun flushing your face and ass down the commode. Have fun with your delusions.

  98. June 26, 2011 3:22 PM:

    3:22, you mention in your post the top 10%. Is it your position that the OTHER 90% OF THE TYPICAL LAW SCHOOL CLASS is made up of slackers who (sic) "get drunk every other night", (sic) "party like it's going out of style", (sic) "don't have the will power". ALL of these are your descriptors of those who don't make the top 10% of a given law school class, in your post above.

    It is my position that if your position is in fact true, there is something seriously wrong with law school admissions, being that 90% of a given class (and that's a mighty big percentage, kiddo) clearly don't belong there. Do you think that other professional programs are made up of 90% fuck-offs? That is mind-boggling.

    That is, your own admission would seem to ultimately vindicate one of the pillars of scamblog ideology--that there are just too damn many people admitted to law school.


  99. Boyd has become overprice. However Vegas is ttill a good place to be an attorney. My friend graduated from Boyd and actually works for El Pelon. (Friend is Puerto Rican but does not speak Spanish). He seems to enjoy it.

  100. Nice breakdown of UNLV's tuition increases. You should've put that in the main article. It speaks for itself. I think it would have a bigger impact on 0Ls if was in the main.

    This blog has things together. The detractors are relegated to rehashing the same old lies and bullshit (e.g. anyone can make top ten percent, most are lazy, I graduated from X law school and am now working in the federal government.) Anyone with an IQ above 60 can see who is honest and who is full of crap. It's no contest. Keep fighting the good fight, scambloggers.

  101. "P.S. Success WILL find me! I guarantee it!" -World Traveling Law Student at 2:13 p.m.

    I actually love this comment. It is the perfect mantra of the deluded and gullible, the kind of thing that charlatans manipulate fools into believing. You only have to trust authority and believe in yourself and magic fairy dust will rain from the heavens on you.

    I've seen how it works in politics: Clinton told us that a job-exporting treaty would actually create jobs. Greenspan told us that markets don't need government oversight, they are just so efficient. Bush jr. told us that Iraqis would love being bombed and invaded, and that democracy would blossom everywhere in consequence. Obama told us to be hopeful-- conveniently omitting what we were supposed to be hopeful about. It was so tempting to go along and believe.

    The only problem is the catastrophe waiting on the other side when reality fails to cooperate, when success would rather laze around with its friends, the wealthy and well-connected, than go out looking for you.

  102. Sweet Fucking Christ on a pogostick - Doug showed his sorry bitch ass back here AGAIN?! Wow.

    Re: El Pelon....he reminds me of Saul Goodman on "Breaking Bad"; poses as something he's ethnically not, a sleazy lawyer, possible "under the table" dealings....I will bet a nickel that he will be found headless in the desert in the next five years for a run in with the wrong sort of client.

  103. Strelnikov comes through with a Casino-esque scenario for El Pelon!

    All that's missing is the Seventies clothes. Groovy.

  104. The only problem is the catastrophe waiting on the other side when reality fails to cooperate, when success would rather laze around with its friends, the wealthy and well-connected, than go out looking for you.


    ^^^^^ This. ^^^^^

    I wouldn't call a Boyd graduate working for someone like El whatever successful. The salary can't be enough to pay down any debt. These are total cut-rate operations.

    We have clearly reached super saturation with law and now its the veterans and everyone and their brother competing in price wars.

    The ones who can survive are eating the noobie's lunches, exploiting the fuck out of them for as much and as long as they can.

    But as the poster quoted above put in so many words, that's business today. It's essentially indentured servitude when you can even get a job.

    Ross Perot anyone?

    Lower living standard than parents, anyone?

    Only kids who can go to law school with no debt and who are connected should attend. Ah, but as Nando has shown time and again, that's not 99% of them. If that were the case, the scam would dry up and blow away in a heartbeat.

    Goodbye middle-class lifestyle, assuming the kids ever enjoyed one to begin with.

  105. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  106. To the piece of waste who posted at June 27, 2011 6:19 am,

    Get a life, bitch. Stop fantasizing about your whore mother, by the way.

    List YOUR GPA, LSAT score, class rank, law school, section, etc. If not, then go blow another 70 year old man, ass-hat.

  107. I am the piece of waste. I am not scared to tell you about my credentials. institution. WNEC, class rank: top 18%, section 2, LSAT score 153, Undergrad GPA 3.2, Law GPA 3.14.

  108. 3.2 undergrad GPA is pathetic. Low LSAT score too. I guess I can see why you ended up in such a shithole. Law GPA is not that great either, man. WHat's the curve? 2.3-2.5?

    You know the white spot on top of bird shit? That's bird shit too.

    Keep puffing up your chest about this. Good luck finding a job at top 18% of this god awful shit pile. Massachusetts has plenty of real law schools.

  109. Thank you, 10:13. :)

    I bet I beat Nando though. And I know I beat most scam-bloggers. They all have one thing in common, bottom of class, could not pass bar. :)

    Could not get job, cuz could not pass bar. Complaining henceforth!

  110. I also want to add that I do feel sorry for Nando, and yes, I agree he makes some valid points here on this blog. I will admit, I really do agree that law schools are taking in WAY too many students. There are WAY too many law schools. However, I cannot agree that all people work the same. I just can't. Some are smarter than others. That's just how the world is. I will say that the number 1 person in the class is not necessarily smarter than the number 28 person in the class, they may be better at taking an exam, however, I am sure that the number 1 person is smarter, or at least worked a lot smarter, than the last person in the class.

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  111. I feel sorry that no women want to hang out with you, loser. (Ask your mother if one of her escort friends would be willing to sleep with you, despite your limp 2" penis and non-existent balls.) We can also tell that you are not working this summer. Hell, even I had a job after first year.

    Apparently, top 18% at Fourth Tier Dung Heap We$TTTTern New England College $chool of Law equates to unemployment. You keep posting idiotic comments, cockroach. Isn't it hilarious that this UNEMPLOYED piece of trash is bragging about being in the top 1/5 of the class at WNEC?!

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  112. To be honest, I have an interview coming up. That and I was out of the US for a while. I did volunteering in one of the countries I was it. It felt good to help those who needed helping. I hope this feels that good to you. I am married, but I am not working this summer as I have had a tough time finding work. However, I have an interview coming up and I even applied to some places yesterday (did not do so during the school year because I was going out of the country and at the end of my first semester was in the top 5%, and honestly, after reading this blog, I figured that was not good enough, so why try?) Now I realize this blog is BS so I'm trying, even though I'm no longer in the top 5%. Thanks for nothing. Jerk.

  113. "Thanks for nothing. Jerk.

    June 27, 2011 1:39 PM":

    You are still placing an AWFUL lot of concern into what others think. This is a SCAMBLOG, fer chrissakes. Speaking for myself, we are some bitter-ass mofo's, typically, having experienced the law school scam for ourselves (yes, I have passed the bar. Passing the bar doesn't mean shit.)

    Anyway, do you seriously seek validation on a scamblog of the decision to attend one of these filty lower-tiersd sewers of law? The point is, for MOST persons, the risk now outweighs the benefit. Wanna go to law school? By all means, do so.

    It doe not negate or invalidate, in any way, the central premise of the scamblos: that for most people, at today's prices, it is not a good idea.

    What is the difficulty in grasping that, and accepting that as an opinion, just as you have your opinion? It's just that, for someone who should be self-confident, you show great concern for the opinions of those here, whose opinions should not matter to you.

  114. I was taught as a child, a wee boy, to listen to others, lest I get my ass bruised by the belt of my elders. I guess I have taken that with me, even though I scream out pride and grab at any dignity I can. I'm a fu*ked up person.

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  115. Nah.

    The central point is whether higher education in general, not just law schools, really offer enough for the kind of prices they are charging. I saw a graph recently showing median incomes in the U.S. basically FLAT from 1988 to 2008, while college tuitions rose precipitously. That is patently absurd.

    It's just that, when people have their hearts and minds set on doing something, it is very easy to lose sight of the practicalities. And, for that matter, I am seeing WAY too many kids that I know of personally getting buried by this kind of debt.

    That's why I appreciate the fact the scamblogs bring to the forefront the very real costs of this type of venture. It is not about stopping or preventing any individual from pursuing hu or her dreams. Far from it. It is instead about being an educated consumer. And that is always a good thing to be, regardless of career choice.

  116. Well, I am interested in what you all, who did do law school, and who really wanted to go to law school, would do differently now. Are there any lessons for us crazies who are going no matter what anyone else says? I read this blog, and while I tend to bash Nando, I also use it as motivation to succeed. Maybe in that way, Nando is doing me somewhat of a favor.

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%

  117. I'm a Boyd grad and I'm happy with my choice to go to Boyd. Here's a simple fact that you COMPLETELY disregarded...if you want to move to Vegas out of law school, then Boyd is a better choice than a top tier school. If you want to practice elsewhere, then yeah save your money and go elsewhere

  118. This is proof that some people are happy with their degrees. Some people are happy with these schools. And yes, some people have found jobs! I am glad you posted here 6:42. This is like spraying Holy water all over Nando, and now he's melting a little...

    The World Traveling Law Student | Top 18%


    To the UNEMPLOYED COCKROACH posting from Chicopee, MA: Massachusetts is listed as the fifth-most GLUTTED legal job market in the country. Congratulations, moron.

    2010-15 Est. Annual Openings: 715
    2009 Bar Exam Passers: 2,165
    2009 Completers (IPEDS): 2,520
    Surplus/Shortage: 1,450

    Also, where did I state that NO ONE is happy with their JD, borderline retard?!?! In fact, some idiots are happy to practice law for peanuts - even though they have large sums of student debt. If you are in the top 20% of your WNEC TTTT class, then that school's reputation is even worse than its USN&WR ranking indicates.

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    Do you enjoy having your face flushed down the commode, Dumbass?!?!

  120. UNLV was a great deal in 2005. It was less than 10K a year to go there. That made sense. No one had a shot at a 160K a year job, but a 60K a year job was fine because students would graduate without student loans. It's a tough choice to go there now.

  121. UNLV also still gives out a TON of scholarships, especially to those who are Nevada residents. Thus, not everyone has the debt you guys are complaining about

  122. Hey Nando-

    suck it

  123. To the cockroach above,

    Actually, your wife sucks me off, you mental midget. From her account, you also suffer from testicular atrophy. That might explain why you are such an angry loser.

  124. UNLV Boyd is shit. The city is rife with lawyers. If you throw a rock, you'll fucking hit 5 lawyers. The economy is terrible too.

  125. I live in California and the problem with a state like Nevada is that all the California law graduates and even from other professions, all flood into Nevada because California is hyper-saturated. The whole country wants to come to California and of course the over-flow floods into Nevada.

  126. I am glad to locate your recognized method for composing the post. Presently you make it simple for me to comprehend and actualize the idea. Much obliged to you for the post. Bankruptcy Attorney Lakeland Fl


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