Tuesday, July 5, 2011

Putrid Stench Pit: Third Tier University of New Hampshire School of Law

Today, we head to picturesque Concord, New Hampshire, to highlight a private septic tank. This commode was established as the Franklin Pierce Law Center. By the way, if you want your toilet to recognize a dead politician - while retaining some semblance of respect - do not name it after a fifth tier president.


Tuition: Although the school’s name indicates that it is a state school, this is a private toilet. As such, every full-time student at this trash pit will pay $39,900 - for 2011-2012. The school is patting itself on the back for freezing tuition, for one year. The fact remains that is still costs $39,900 for one year of a TTT “legal education.”

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same page, the total cost of attendance - for the 2011-2012 school year - will amount to $60,081. As you can see, the commode only considers costs over nine months. Since actual students will require twelve-month living expenses, we will calculate out a more accurate figure. Taking such costs into account, we reach a total COA of $66,378 - for one year.


Ranking: This school was originally named after Franklin Pierce. Surely, that must help the school’s prestige, right?!?! Well, according to the bitches and hobos at US “News” & World Report, this commode is the 143rd best, most fantastic, amazing and brilliant law school in the United States! It shares this distinction with Loyola-New Orleans and something called Campbell University in Raleigh, NC. Remember, Pierce was only in office for one-term - and is generally considered one of the worst presidents, in this nation’s history.


Purported Employment and Starting Salary Statistics: According to this page, 85.5 percent of the JD Class of 2008 was employed within six months of graduation. Sure they were - and Salma Hayek just massaged my torso with her bare breasts and lips. Apparently, this third tier dung pile is unable to find placement stats for the JD classes of 2009 or 2010. I guess tuition and fees only so far, right?!?! The commode lists its overall average starting salary, for this class, as $75K - with a median salary of $93,496. Of course, the dung beetles do not provide a breakdown of respondents.


Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Univer$iTTTy of New Hamps$hire JD Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $115,952. Specifically, 89% of this private toilet’s 2010 graduating class took on such toxic debt. Imagine the debt loads of some of these grads, when you take their student loans from undergrad into account!


Faculty and Administrator Pay: Head to pages 17 and 18 of UNH Sewer of Law’s 2010 IRS Form 990, so we can take a look at how well the “professors” are doing, at this dump site. You will note that then-dean and president John Hutson - the reptile retired in January 2011 - made $278,616 in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for 2009. Yes, Hutson raked in $247,077 in “reportable compensation from the organization” plus $31,539 in “estimated amount of other compensation from the organization and related organizations.”

The following figures represent TOTAL COMPENSATION taken in by UNH “law professors,” for the same tax year: Susan Richey, $196,038; bow-tie and vest-clad Marcus Hurn, $144,196; mustachioed William O. Hennessy, $161,971; Mary Pilkington-Casey, $137,017; and William J. Murphy, $141,658. These people get paid up front, in full - regardless of whether you land a job. Isn’t “higher education” a grand scheme?!?!


As a student at this third tier stench pit, you have the marvelous and unique opportunity to write onto the illustrious, prestigious, phenomenal IDEAR The Intellectual Property Law Review. Legal employers and beautiful women will throw themselves at you. Actually, they will likely continue to ignore your sorry ass.


"It is an exciting time to begin a legal career as a social justice advocate. SJI assists students in navigating the many resources at UNH School of Law so even first-year law students can use their education to help others." - Erin B. Corcoran, Director of the Social Justice Institute”

Wow! The school has a “Social Justice Institute.” Isn’t that quaint?! Will an internship at this institute this lead to a decent job upon graduation? Keep in mind that “justice” is an over-used concept. The reality is that in the filthy “profession” of law, those with money, power and influence usually win - even if they are guiltier than hell. Also, “social justice” jobs typically do not pay well. How is one supposed to repay his monstrous student loans on a paltry salary?!?!

Conclusion: This school is a blight on American “legal education.” It purports to train global leaders in social justice, IP, and commerce and technology. The problem is that law firms, government agencies and corporations are still going to see a JD that reads “University of New Hampshire School of Law.” These employers will not be fooled. They understand that this is the same piece of garbage that called itself the Franklin Pierce Law Center, for decades. A scrawny geek has a higher likelihood of banging Rihanna than your chances at becoming a “global leader,” after graduating from this dung heap.


  1. This place is almost as bad as Western New England College!!!

    1. UNH Law is a top 100 school now and rising, tied with Northeastern. Things have changed a lot since the original post.

    2. UNH Law is a top 100 law school now, tied with Northeastern. A lot has changed since the original post.

    3. The info here is old - UNH Law is now fully part of the UNH system, although in-state tuition is still a ridiculously high $37,100 and out of state is $41,000, and of course their 1L class is nearly half of what it was barely seven years ago - now below 80 students.

      But there has been some good news - once the adult supervision arrived from the state the quickly realized they could not afford to pay the ex-chief justice Dean to continue for nearly $400k. So, they gave him a little side job for the remainder of his term for $153k. Alas, he couldn't even manage this and as a result was due to leave in June. He even screwed that part up and was today banned from the campus.


      While there are still plenty of problems with this commode, at least they are getting rid of some of the most expensive and useless turds.

      Oh yes - I forgot, it's a top 100 school now. That's only because they'e not charging tuition to the best students they can find while continuing to charge full load for the mouth breathers at the bottom with an average LSAT of about 144. If all it takes is bribing a few high ranking students to show up for free "education" then it goes to show how utterly useless the rankings are beneath the top ten.

  2. My commode finally came up on Nando's site. Yes, I went to UNH Law, formerly known as Franklin Pierce Law Center. It took the school 40 years to finally become a "School" as opposed to a "Center."

    @ 8:43. UNH is much better than WNECL. Not that I'm tooting my horn, but NECL is a complete joke. In any event, the USNWR rankings didn't do UNH any justice in this last go around. I believe that they took a dive in rankings because of the name change when I was almost certain that the ranking would improve. We'll see what happens next year, but it's a testament to the arbitrary nature of the rankings imo.

    Nevertheless, the school continues to beat the IP drum saying they're the 4th best IP school in the nation. Kids, I went to this school in the early 2000's when it was ranked No. 1 in the country for IP and I am currently an unemployed patent attorney. I've been doing document review for the past 6 years in an attempt to merely pay off my educational debt. Yes, some of my former classmates did "make" it and some (but not many) ultimately became partners at fairly established IP firms.

    UNH Law is a small school (in some cases that's a bad thing) that pays a lot of attention to its students, but the name just doesn't carry much weight either in NH, outside of New England or otherwise. Like Vermont Law, Univ. of Maine, etc., it's very difficult to compete for job in Boston when you're competing against blue bloods from BC/BU/Harvard, etc. Like any school, there are always students that are the exception to the rule. That being said, I would be willing to guess that approximately half of my former classmates are either out of law completely, never obtained a legal job at all or are doing document review.

    Truth be told, I enjoyed my time at UNH. I couldn't imagine spending three years in NYC, paying outrageous rent, etc. Some of the advantages of UNH: Low cost of living; close-knit community; aesthetically pleasing environment with a lot of outdoor activities; parking is not a problem (unpaid); close to Boston; decent school facilities.

    In the end, and despite my own quality experience, I would not recommend the school to others, even prospective IP students. The only way I would recommend it is if you want to stay in NH/VT/Maine for the rest of your life and intend to go solo. If you want to go into IP, go to a top 25 school. A lot of my former colleagues in BigLaw (when I had a Biglaw job that is) were from NYU and they seemed to always have great opportunities and the ability to lateral to other firms. The tech bubble is busted so graduating from Pierce/UNH is not going to open up a lot of doors in IP or otherwise. You will have to make it on your own. The only time I hear from my school is when I get an envelope in the mail requesting a donation. Sorry to say, but I don't intend to give them any more of my money.

  3. This place stinks nearly as much as the rottten SeTTTon Hall Law toilet!

  4. True shithole. If you're gonna name your school after a president, name it after someone who isn't perceived to be one of the biggest wastes ever. Do you see anybody itching to name a law school after James Buchanan or Herbert Hoover?

  5. I wouldn't say it's a shit hole. My opinion is that UNH ranks better than WNECL, NESL, VT Law, Maine and Suffolk, but lower than Harvard, BC, BU and a slightly below Northeastern ... for what it's worth.

  6. This motherfucker looks like one of those ugly gremlins you can't get water on or feed after dark. Try to get this image out of your head.

  7. Okay kids, it's lesson time. Law schools that are severely handicapped by the rankings scheme, love to tout its standing in the secondary rankings scheme. For example, we all know Seton Hall Law School is a terrible deal (Yale tuition rates for low employment prospects). We also know that Seton Hall is not highly ranked. Yet I keep hearing they are in the top 5 in healthcare law. Same thing for Hamline, which claims it is ranked number one in alternate dispute resolution. Kids, take it from me, employers overlook the secondary rankings for a reason. In a beauty contest, a contestant may have the best arch on her feet but this criteria is insignificant when you consider the other categories (e.g., body sculpture, facial pulchritude, etc.). The bottom line is you can attend the number one law school for animal rights law, it won't make you more marketable. Don't fall for the secondary rankings hype.

    As for the featured school, I am familiar with it only because it was named after my favorite M*A*S*H character Hawkeye Benjamin Franklin Pierce.

    NY Hiring Partner

  8. ^^ Agreed. I'm the former poster @9:22. UNH Law was ranked #1 in IP when I was admitted. Employers do NOT care about specialty rankings period (at least employers that you should care about)! I seem to recall that USNWR has specialty rankings in Legal Writing and Alternative Dispute Resolution. Give me a break. Do you really think a prospective legal employer gives a crap about a school's ranking in ADR, IP, Health Care??? The answer is simply NO! I have the rejection letters to prove it.

    1. I too went to FPLC when was ranked #1 in IP back in late 90s. If you were tanked top 2 or 3 in your class, you could get a decent job after graduation. I know several who did but everyone else fared as you say. I got the Masters in IP there and the job I got afterwards only paid me $49K before taxes.

    2. I too went to FPLC when was ranked #1 in IP back in late 90s. If you were tanked top 2 or 3 in your class, you could get a decent job after graduation. I know several who did but everyone else fared as you say. I got the Masters in IP there and the job I got afterwards only paid me $49K before taxes.

  9. Specialty rankings are like Chanel on a toothless crackwhore.

  10. Specialty rankings are like telling a fat woman she has a pretty navel.

  11. 'Kids, take it from me, employers overlook the secondary rankings for a reason. In a beauty contest, a contestant may have the best arch on her feet but this criteria is insignificant when you consider the other categories (e.g., body sculpture, facial pulchritude, etc.).'

    We can go a little further. A contestant can have the nicest looking feet in the whole pagaent. If we are talking about an actual beauty contest no one cares. Does it really matter to any of the judges? Those specialty rankings are a joke.

  12. Got damn dat's an ugly sumbitch. I 'lmost coughed up mah heavenly biscuits 'n gravy 'n shit.

    Lil Wayne is so mu'fuckin' ugly, the boogeyman checks his closet to make sure Lil Wayne ain't be hidin' up in there. Teheheh. Dis is kinda fun.

    He so mufoogly he came outta his momma's ass. Dat boy is so ugly he look like shit wit' eyeballs.

    Lil Wayne is so gotdamn, sonofabitchin' muthafuckin' ugly the grim reaper be avoidin' his ass. He be makin' ET cry hisself t' sleep.

  13. TTTTT lawyer gets Casey Anthony a noTTT GuilTTTy in most watched trial in the country:


    He dropped out of high school, but later got a GED and attended St. TTThomas UniversitTTTy School of Law (I think profiled by Nando). His life was a total mess and they wouldn't give him a law license for like 5 years.

    Now that he's famous, the money should come in.

    None of this refutes the general economic trends that this blog writes about, but it is a cool story. It's also a reminder that in the end, its just you, your opponent, and the courtroom. Nobody can hide behind paper there.

  14. To add to what @3:03 said, yup - in the end, it's just you. If can't envision yourself going out on your own, running your own business, then I suggest that you do NOT go to law school. Some people are just not cut out to be their own boss. Some people just don't have the financial means to open up their own shop. If you fall into one of these categories, do not attend law school. You are wasting your time. You might think that you will rise above it and get a firm job. Maybe you will, but what happens when you get laid off after two years and no one else will hire you at a salary level that will reasonably allow you to pay down your educational debt? Then what do you do in view of the fact that working at Wal-Mart is no longer a viable option?

    As Nando has pointed out numerous times on this blog, non-lawyers do not like hiring lawyers for non-law (or pseudo law) positions because: (1) they hate lawyers; (2) they think the lawyer will leave once he/she gets a better legal opportunity or (3) they think the lawyer is a "loser" since he can't get a legal job.

    Either way, at these tuition levels, you're pretty much screwed no matter what you do unless you have wealthy parents footing the bill. Unfortunately, I don't fall into that category.

  15. Here is a post from someone going to this dump in the fall. I advised her against it, but she politely turned down my advice.

    Even though I will be a law student, should I get a PharmD or PhD in a chemistry-related field in the future?
    I am a 21 year old female, I am a 2011 grad, and I will be an entering law student in Fall 2011. In undergrad, I majored in chemistry and minored in biology and psychology. I chose chemistry because I loved learning about everything science and I am really good at getting the core concepts. I did a couple of chemistry research internships, one I did at my school and the other was a highly competitive NSF-funded REU program at Cornell. It took me a couple of years of "getting my hands dirty" to realize I disliked working in lab. I found myself to not be research-minded and unmotivated doing syntheses and instrumental analyses. This created a post-grad dilemma for me because I never saw myself as a teacher/professor and I don't think I could handle medical school. I truly want to go to move on to grad school.

    A friend of mine had suggested that I consider law school for patent law in particular. I've done some research and talked to several people and I decided to pursue a law degree at UNH Law School (formerly Franklin Pierce Law Center) to concentrate in intellectual property. I was accepted in early April with a partial scholarship and I already have living plans arranged.

    A lot of the patent law attorneys require 5-10+ years of experience drafting patent applications and many require advanced degrees in the sciences.My ultimate goal would be to become a patent attorney for the FDA or some other governmental agency but a lot of patent attorneys get advanced degrees in science, publish research, do R&D, etc. first. I am now starting to think I am doing things backwards.

    With that being said, I am beginning to think I should have more under my belt like a chemistry PhD or pharmacy degree if I want to contend with other patent law attorneys. I would even consider a masters in chemical engineering because engineers are in such high demand.

    As crazy as it seems, I'm starting to think my best bet is to become a professional student! I want neither the law degree nor the potential doctoral degree for prestige. I truly want to use my chemistry interest and knowledge. I just have a gut feeling that my chemistry bachelors won't satisfy future employers. Assuming I get through 3 years of law school and pass the bar, should I go back to school or just try my luck with various patent law firms (big or small)?

  16. This person is an idiot. In chemistry (and more so in biotech), you really need a Ph.D. to really have a legitimate shot at getting a decent job. This person is going about it bass-ackwards. She needs to go to graduate school first, get a Ph.D. (not a masters), and then go to law school if that's what she wants to do. Unless she does very well in law school, she will not be able to go very far (particularly on the prosecution side) without more scientific training. IP litigation is generally a better proposition for people with only a B.S. in science, but then again those jobs are going to people from Top 15 schools, not Franklin Pierce. So the long and short is that this person is wasting her time. She will graduate in 3 years with no job offers and will be $150,000+ in debt. She will have to compete with extremely qualified individuals (many with doctoral degrees). She won't be able to compete with that and she'll ultimately end up being a divorce lawyer. Do you think I'm fucking joking? As a former graduate of UNH Law, I should know. Don't let those profs at UNH make you believe you're the best thing since sliced bread. You won't have much opportunity with only a B.S.

  17. Question for the group:

    I frequent these blogs often as they have a way of reminding me that I am not alone. My question is this: what does a person do when they already have gone to law school, passed the bar, been practicing for a while, have the debt, and now find themselves unemployed? In other words, what does a person do in an already shitty situation? I am unable to go back in time. I have to pay the debt. How do I make a shitty situation better?

    Do I:

    Join the scamblog movement? Seems to me the movement is doing well for itself already. Many of these sites are well-written and give solid analysis about the employment prospects of 0Ls upon graduation.

    File suit against my law school? Not sure I want to do that simply because I am partly responsible as well. I accept this responsibility.

    Become a solo? Bravo, more money that I don't have leaving my house.

    What to do? This is a serious question. For those of you who are gonna flame away, fuck off in advance. I am trying to make the best of a shitty situation and I am looking for some answers. I am not sure I want to be a lawyer anymore. I am tired of talking about it, thinking about it and dwelling on it. I acknowledge that I was screwed over but at some point I feel the need to move on.

  18. Addition to the above....

    I have been applying for jobs but as we all know, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of applicants for the same damn job. Too many people with my skills are looking for the same work.

  19. @4:44: If I were you, I would:

    1. Do doc review, wait tables, bartend or whatever (no shame in it) to pay the bills.

    2. Pick a few non-biglaw practice areas and learn the fundamentals from practice guides. In Illinois, this is a good program: https://www.iicle.com/smartbooks/default.aspx You can also read practice guides, and maybe check them out, from a courthouse or law school law library. I think state court criminal defense, divorce, small personal injury and bankruptcy are good practice areas. Stay out of federal court in the beginning (bankruptcy doesn’t really count as federal). Study the practice guides as though you were getting tested on them. Go to court and watch lawyers practice these areas.

    3. This is the most important point: START A SERIOUS MARKETING PROGRAM. Set up a virtual office and a web presence. Don’t lie like Joseph Rakofsky about non-existent experience. Also don’t say that you are a beginner. Just list what you do and give information about each practice area that a client would find useful. (What do I do if I think I may be headed for a divorce?) Put a disclaimer that this is not legal advice, etc. Route all calls to your cell phone. Print lots of business cards. Buy malpractice insurance. Look at direct mailings and Adwords. Teach yourself wordpress or typepad blogging software.

    4. Find a few good attorneys in those practice areas, cold call them, and invite them to lunch. Propose a 50/50 fee split with them for cases that you bring in so long as they supervise and you do the grunt work. The standard straight referral rate is 33%, so this isn’t unreasonable. After you’ve done this for about a year, you can probably handle routine cases on your own. Try to see if, for hourly or contingency work, if the other attorney can accept the money and cut you back a check. Let him put money in his client trust account. Try to avoid needing your own client trust account for a while. It is hard to learn how to practice law and run a business. Client trust accounting is an extra headache that, if mishandled, will get you disbarred ASAP.

    Feel free to ask follow up questions. Good luck to you.

  20. After I graduated in 1998, the state agency that ultimately hired me posted two attorney openings and got 10 applicants.

    In 2008, the agency posted two attorney openings again. 400+ applied.

    Since early 2010, the agency has posted zero openings due to a budget freeze.

    Students contemplating law school should understand how drastically their chances have deteriorated. And that goes for big law, government jobs, and even well-paid long-term document review projects.

  21. To "July 5, 2011 4:44 PM:"

    I think you should definitively SUE. Law schools lie and misrepresent career and employment prospects with no regard for the very laws and ethics they purport to teach. To add insult to injury, they are doing so on the tax payers dime through student loans, IBR, and other government-sponsored programs. Therefore, I think that it is part of your personal responsibility and duty as a citizen to step up, take any wrongdoers to court, and attempt to stop their unethical behaviors.

  22. To "Even though I will be a law student, should I get a PharmD or PhD in a chemistry-related field in the future?"

    Unlike law school, you actually need brains afford to to get a PharmD or a PhD in chemistry. I would also urge you to not pursue law school if you only have a BS in chemistry and will be attending UNH Law School because, if lucky, you will probably end up as a paralegal for a T14 JD+PhD Chem, and if unlucky, unemployed and saddled with student debt.

  23. Another thing about the above-referenced stupid lemming re: attending UNH Law, the FDA does not hire patent attorneys. Also, as a Pharm.D., do not under any circumstances go around emphasizing that you are a "doctor." You will get laughed out of your interviews if you do. You're not the first Pharm.D. to attend UNH. Most partners know that your background is more clinical in nature, which is a detriment. They want research-oriented skills. You will be making a huge mistake going to UNH with only a Pharm.D. in this economic climate. There are many many unemployed patent attorneys with multiple years of experience that are unable to get back on their feet. If you had a Ph.D., that's a different story - firms would be much more willing to overlook a lower rated law school such as UNH if you have a Ph.D. Now go back to dispensing Mrs. Jones' pills wannabe. You'll likely make more money and have a more stable career path if you just stay right where you are - in pharmacy.

  24. Law sucks. At root of course, the problem is that law schools are modeled on a world that no longer exists: where a law firm will train you. That paradigm is GONE, yet, law schools don't teach kids how to practice law.

    In my case, the only way I could "drop out" and get rid of the JD ball-and-chain (and it is, kids, outside the law world, don't let anyone bullshit you) was to go blue collar. I had to finally drop the notion of being "white collar" completely.

    If you're still relatively young, try getting an apprenticeship in sheet metal, plumbing, roofing, whatever. You'll bust your ass for a while, but you will feed yourself and pay some bills.

    This economy simply not support everyone being "white collar". It just won't.

    Only ego gets in the way.

  25. I made the post at 4:44....to 5:43, I think you are correct. Taking it a step further: I paid my HVAC guy nearly 5K to fix the thing. That price was STILL a deal. In turn, he is looking into getting me hired!

    Blue collar work may be the way to go. Look at how much money electricians make, plumbers, etc... Nothing wrong with that work. They also offer on the job training, which you get paid for!

  26. On October 20, 2010, Richard Vedder, economics professor at Ohio University, wrote the following piece:


    "Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree."

    Vedder continues:

    "The relentless claims of the Obama administration and others that having more college graduates is necessary for continued economic leadership is incompatible with this view. Putting issues of student abilities aside, the growing disconnect between labor market realities and the propaganda of higher-education apologists is causing more and more people to graduate and take menial jobs or no job at all. This is even true at the doctoral and professional level—there are 5,057 janitors in the U.S. with Ph.D.’s, other doctorates, or professional degrees."

    It is OBVIOUS that we are producing far too many college graduates, in this country. If you pump out an legions more college grads, jobs requiring a college degree do not magically appear. As part of my job, I sometimes research RDA plans. I see politicians and business owners congratulating themselves for job creation. However, upon closer inspection, I notice that most of these jobs consist of the following low-wage garbage: fast food restaurants, call centers, retail outlets, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations. Those jobs DO NOT REQUIRE any education. Yet cockroaches from both the Republican and Democratic parties - as well as economists and talking heads - keep telling us that we need more people to go to college.


    Here are a few positive signs. Some are starting to take Pussy Boy Obama to task, for his irrational insistence that everyone should go to college.

    People are starting to catch onto the "higher education" scam. One friend told me that her son graduated from high school one year early. Instead of attending a four-year college, he will go to a community college so he can become a welder and iron worker. He can live at home for two years - and spend less than $7,000 to learn a skilled trade. (Of course, some of her family members are upset with his choice. Of course, none of these bitches will offer to pay his college tuition.)

    A co-worker was intent on going to law school. He scored 156 on his LSAT. He took the test again, and did not score much better. At that point, he decided to stay at his job - and has given up on the idea of law school. This is a real blessing, as he has a wife and young children.

  27. ^ Yeah, if I had to "support" a wife and kids, I'd be homeless. Literally fucking homeless. I do have a wife, except SHE supports ME in my chronic unemployment/underemployment as an attorney educated at the good 'ole University of Cow Hampshire. By the way, my wife is a legal secretary and she has made more than me every year for the past six years! I don't make this shit up.

  28. The turd (?) in that toilet should be called Shit Mountain.

  29. 5:43 wrote I paid my HVAC guy nearly 5K to fix the thing. That price was STILL a deal ...Blue collar work may be the way to go

    That's the same wrongheaded reasoning, OLs use to justify attending TTTs: assuming that one success story in a employment field means that everyone in that field is successful. The reality is that the number of un/underemployed tradesmen is far greater than those making a decent living at plumbing or HVAC or carpentry. Especially since the bursting of the housing bubble. A lot of these guys/gals are up to their ass in hock for their tools and their F350s. To say nothing of the unpaid bills from their subcontractors and their overdue lines of credit at the building center.

    There is no employment refuge during a depressionary restructuring like we (and the world) are going through. Law school is just the worst of many bad options.

  30. 8:20

    Sure many of those contractors are spent on business credit and are getting undercut by illegal immigrant labor. But you for forgot something.

    Do you know what you forgot to mention?

    The fact that these electricians and carpenters did not spend 7 years in a fucking classroom learning meaningless shit and taking on tons of student debt.

    They can also declare business bankruptcy if it goes under.

  31. Brian Leiter, law professor at the University of Chicago, wrote this in regards to show that a name change can affect rankings:


    "Gordon Smith has posted the final rankings of his crowdsourced survey about law schools. Perhaps the single most important thing it teaches us is: brand matters. We all believed this already. But either accidentally or intentionally, Gordon tested this theory with his new rankings by including one law school under two names: Franklin Pierce and the University of New Hampshire. The two schools partnered this year and as of this past fall, the Pierce name was replaced by UNH. So which school does the crowd think superior? No surprise, State U fared far better than Franklin Pierce. UNH scored a 43; Pierce a 33. UNH jumped 20 spots in the reputation rankings simply by changing its name."

    In an additional comment, Leiter mentions that online voting played a role in this situation. The fact remains that this school is a third tier, corroded septic tank. A name change cannot remove the skid marks from a filthy toilet.


    According to Law School Numbers, for the Franklin Pierce Law Center Class of 2009, the 25th percentile LSAT score was 149 - whereas the 75th percentile exam score was 155. Also, for the same class, the 25th percentile UGPA was 3.0 while the 75th percentile undergraduate GPA was 3.5.

    Yes, what a true academic powerhouse, huh?!?! The school was accepting kids with 149 LSAT scores and 3.0 UGPAs! This page also lists the employment rate - for the Class of 2005 - as 86.8 percent, within nine months of graduation.


    Yet, $omehow, the school allegedly had an employment placement rate, for the Class of 2008, of 85.5 percent - within six months of graduation. Then again, “employment” includes non-legal, legal, part-time, full-time, permanent and temporary work. If you are selling insurance, working as a temporary, academic researcher, stocking shelves at an auto parts store, or teaching sixth graders, you are “employed” - for the purposes of NALP, US “News” & World Report, and the ABA.

    Yes, because providing insurance quotes and selling premiums requires law a law degree, right?!?!

  32. 8:20:

    As I stated at Anon 7:49, law school is the worst of many bad options. But too many commenters on scamblogs think that somehow that the blue collar/tradesman route ia a panacea. It's not. Many (most?) contractors develop debilitating injuries that effectively end their work life at 50 or so. How many old masons you see? And when you're unemployed with no prospects of income, how much and what kind of debt you have is a pretty meaningless question.

  33. "if you want your toilet to recognize a dead politician - while retaining some semblance of respect - do not name it after a fifth tier president"

    That's why me and the rest of the graduates of the Rutherford B. Hayes Finishing School of Law and Agricultural Sciences all laugh at the attendees of the Franklin Peirce Law Center.

  34. Nando, in all fairness you have to realize that about 25-30% of all students at UNH law are science majors. Thus, not all of them have 4.0 GPAs in political science & basket weaving. The rigorousness of science majors means that, by default, the GPAs will be a little lower. Let's be honest, getting a 4.0 in some stupid humanities subject is a lot easier than getting a 4.0 in chemical engineering.

  35. I have mentioned this in a prior post so I apologize in advance for being redundant, however, the message must be crystal clear.

    I went to law school over 20 years ago. I befriended a kid that had a BSE from UMichigan. He was working at Dupont making $85K a year. $85K a year in the late '80s was making bank. He applied to law school because in his words, chemical engineers top out at $110K. Back then, associates in Big Law were starting out at in the mid $80K range. Yet this kid was lured by the partner compensation which was close to a million per year.

    We attended a T30 school. I had a full ride, he paid sticker. This kid studied every waking minute. First semester grades came out, he was in the bottom half. At that point he had a choice of returning to his job. His hubris led him to continue law school. In the end, he graduated with no job, bottom half, no journal and it took him 3 years to pass the bar exam. His first job was working for an IP small shit shop making $28K a year. He tried to go back to Dupont but they had no need for him. Meanwhile, one of his former subordinates at Dupont became a Director making $150K a year.

    I would see this kid from time to time. He was always depressed saying how much he had fucked up his life by attending law school. He was in his mid 30s living with his parents, who were wealthy but ashamed of him. I lost touch with this fellow about 10 years ago. At a law school 20 year reunion, there was a rumor that he skipped the country while others speculated that he committed suicide but that the family hid this to not shame the family name (they are Japanese). I really liked this kid. It is sad what law school can do to you.

  36. 7:18AM here again.

    Mind you this kid had no student loan debt and this true story took place ovr 20 years ago. Today, I can't imagine someone going through what my friend did looking at 6 figure student loan debt and no job prospect that would allow one to repay that debt in 10 years or even 30 years today. Trust me, someone is making money out of this operation, and it sure isn't the students.

  37. Here is the path you will go on if you graduate from a crappy school...upon graduation you go back to waiting tables while you study for the bar while maybe trying to squeeze in volunteer work(why you would do that I dont know) at some law office where you are essentially a free runner or paper filer.

    Assuming you pass the bar, you might get some nibbles at small iffy firms typically PI mill or insurance defense where you literally make less to start then you would if you had stayed waiting tables. You work your ass off and wonder why all the associates never stay more then two years and it has been the same partners forever. At some point you max out in salary and are laid off so the next cheap newbies can come in even if you are the best associate they ever had.

    At that point you are so fed up that you either leave law with debt mostly still in tact or you start your own firm. For most who do this, they go in to more debt and the odds of making enough money to justify the schooling, the years tooling for no pay so you can get experience are slim. That is assuming you even know how to do it. A few will make it big earning great money with all the freedom in the world but with all the changes in law designed to keep the 4th tier solo magician from getting too rich, this task becomes harder year by year and the odds are more stacked against you. Even those that have succeeded at this in years past are not growing their firms, but downsizing and not doing as well.

    That is the path you go on if you are lucky.

    Most grads cant find any kind of permanent work for any firm for any amount so they either do doc review for a wage that does not justify the time in school and the loan cost(I mean why do we go to school if it is not to give us a better chance at earning money). Working for a small amount of money after taking out all those loans will not last as it destroys your spirit. This is not about not willing to work at the bottom and moving up etc. This about digging a hole, crawling in to it, and no matter how hard you work, you are in a worse spot then if you had not dug the hole. This is even harder to deal with when you are smart and hard working which many 4th tier people are. Remember its a standardized test that often keeps you out of a more respectable school. Why all those years of hard work in school and being a well rounded person?

    So with rare exception, here you are stuck with debt and hanging on to a fringe connection to a legal career knowing you have failed or you leave the law, start over, hide your legal background while the loan debt destroys you in so many ways while you wonder why you wasted 5-10 years of your life to get in a negative position while your friends get married and have kids and even put a down payment on a house.

  38. cont..

    So what is my point? Unless you are connected or get into a top school that even makes the biggest cynics seem impressed when you tell them where you go, forget law as a profession no matter how bad you want to be in what you think is a prestigious profession. Lawyers are hated and despised by most people in society. When they need you, they are looking to short you on your fee or turn you in to a State Bar for the slightest mistake and the State Bar is looking to destroy its own because there are too many lawyers. They already got your money by then and the yearly dues dont matter to them. They still want kids going to law school because that is fresh money that keeps the scam going which they benefit from.

    Most of my classmates from my 4th tier crapper are out of law completely. Life is short kids. If Asshat Univ School of Law is your only choice, go blue collar. There are plenty of smart people who just cant get in to the profession because of how it is set up to ruin you before you can be successful enough to make it well enough to justify the investment.

    Ultimately it is about the debt you are taking on. If you learn nothing else in life, learn two words-COMPOUND INTEREST-. It can work great for people not in debt to get to an early retirement, but it can destroy those in debt, especially debt that is not dischargeable. Your debt from law school is increasing faster then you can comfortably pay it back.

    While I would not want to work in a field where Pedro the illegal alien has completely destroyed the wage set up and my own country is more concerned about passing motorcycle helmet laws then keeping out illegal aliens, law is no different. Our competition is soon to be Mohammed and Shin Soo for all the paper work lawyers do and they will do it for minimum wage because they can live in squalor and he happy. Yes, go getter and personality types still will have a chance to do practice law/sales, but the world is different now so such opportunities are not as prevalent.

    You simply cannot afford to be in debt in your mid 20s to the level these schools are putting you in because the jobs relative to pay is a huge fail even if you can get one. If you cant, you feel like a bigger fool.

    For those of you who want to run a business and work hard and are great people etc, go buy a Taco Bell franchise. If it fails, go bankruptcy and then buy a truck and a lawnmower and fool the government year to year showing no income with your lawn cutting business that is off the books and more profitble then most lawyers. Its way better then being in law and I know this from 20 yrs experience in this shitty profession.

    Going to law school is kind of like Obamas eligibility issue. We all know the scam is being put over on us and the evidence is clear, yet we ignore it and allow it to fuck us right in our face thinking it will simply take care of itself. That is what we have become as people and these law schools are laughing all the way to the bank just like Obama is laughing at the biggest scam in the history of our country.

  39. ^^ Just like Greenspan is laughing at us when he told everyone to go get an adjustable rate mortgage. Just like Obama will soon be laughing at those who take out more and more money to go to school. It seems like the only solution government has regarding the economy is for citizens to spend more money, whether shopping to improve the economy, taking out loans to go to school, taking out ARMS for a home. Take out a loan ... trust me, it will all work out great! You might be homeless and dirt poor, but at least you'll have your big screen TV.

  40. Someone at TLS was able to snag UNH's most recent employment data directly from their careers office:



  41. True,it is tough in the trades too right now. But how many of theseguysarestrapped with six-figurenon-dischargeable-in-bankruptcy student loan debt, along with a degree which is loathed outside the legal world?

    Further, how many will find themeslves "overqualified" by the dreaded non-elite JD when they have to break down and take a job selling cars?

  42. July 6, 2011 7:18 AM:

    It cannot be overemphasized to what extent the JD can actually DAMAGE a person. That's in part what the scamblogs have, thankfully, brought to light. Many of these kids will take horrible offense for people trying to "kill their dream", etc. That's not it at all.

    Rather, if you insist on law school, just beware that is is perhaps the ONLY degree I can think of which is capable of inflicting POSITIVE DAMAGE.

    I know of no employers who will affirmatively punish an applicant for having a fine arts degree and who seeks a sales job; contrarily, the JD will be queried, even ridiculed, if he seeks a job outside law. He will be viewed a failure.

    You can't go back from the JD. If you cannot make it work, it can really fuck you absent major prior experiences, contacts and connections.

  43. In my last year at Third Tier Drake, I met a second year law student of Vietnamese descent. He was doing an internship in the local prosecutor's office. He graduated from UCLA, before attending law school in the humid stench pit of Des Moines, Iowa. This man told me that he was taking on serious debt for law school, and was not sure if this route would pay off.

    He told me that his brother ran a landscaping business in Southern California. Due to the nice weather, he was able to operate this firm year-round. He was also employing undocumented aliens. In sum, this guy was raking in very good money. Much of his business was “off the books.” (Imagine the ethical problems facing an attorney, if he did not report his cash clients.)

    This kid estimated that his brother typically made $100K-$140K per year. He was upset that his brother – who never spent a day in a college classroom – was making good money, while he would be happy to make $60K as a practicing lawyer. One time, he mentioned that only the very top graduate of Third Tier Drake would have a chance to make $120K+, coming out of law school. See how well “higher education” pays off?!?!

    Here is another example: One friend was attending medical school at Des Moines University – which is in the same general neighborhood as Third Tier Drake. He and his wife owned and operated a small landscaping company in Idaho – before he started medical school. His wife was upset with their financial situation. One day she went off to my wife about the fact that they OWNED a home outright, before medical school, and now they are in serious student debt. Their finances were further tight, due to the fact that they had an infant daughter.

    @ 6:07 am,

    I understand that the U.S. economy is on a sandy foundation. We consume MUCH more than we produce. Our trade deficit with the rest of the world keeps ballooning. It is hard to compete when one nation idiotically ships raw materials to other nations, which then export it to the first country as finished product.

    However, the point is that some skilled trade positions are much more likely to remain. By the way, plenty of tradesmen are far from being out of commission, by age 50. For example, electricians are typically not burdened with back-breaking tasks.


    In the end, we were sold a bill of goods. As the policymakers, greedy corporate pigs, and politicians were busy dismantling the manufacturing base, these bastards simultaneously told Americans that they need a college education. We have since discovered that white collar positions are often easier to offshore than many blue-collar jobs.

    To 6:48 am,

    I recognize that a 3.0 GPA in engineering or hard sciences is much more difficult than attaining a 3.6 GPA while studying “Political Science” or History. Would you care to explain the low LSAT scores of students admitted to this dung heap?!

  44. ^ I'm not justifying the low LSAT scores. UNH's LSAT scores have risen over the years. I believe the average is now around mid 150s. Yes, they take some lower LSAT people (145-149), but not many - maybe if they're a minority or something else in the application makes up for the low score, e.g., high GPA. It's not like the school is admitting every idiot with a 145 LSAT like Cooley.

  45. That is one ugly, horrific toilet. It haunts my waking hours. For the love of God make it go away!

    And that picture is pretty disgusting too.

  46. Chances are that everyone on here advocating working blue collar has never actually worked a blue collar job. Otherwise, you would understand why many people do not decide to become plumbers, mechanics, masons, or electricians, even if the pay is decent. I have worked in construction, and as a painter, and I can tell you from first hand experience how backbreaking the work is. I have also done mason work, which is pure hell. Construction and mason work involves constant heavy lifting, and bending over, and by the time the nine hour day is finished, you are too tired and too sore to do much of anything.

    All of the older guys I worked with hated it, and though they admitted the pay was good, they strongly advised to avoid a job that involves manual labor. Many of the older guys had back problems, and other health issues, but were still forced to work nine hour days, five days a week because they had no higher education, and thus had no other way of providing for their families. Although I have never worked with cars, many mechanics have told me the same thing.

    It's funny to read a bunch of white collar workers bitch and moan about their professions, while glorifying blue collar work, when they have probably never worked a manual labor job a day in their lives. If blue collar work seems so great, quit your job, and go work for a general contractor for the next six months. After that, you will actually have the CREDIBILITY to promote blue collar work. Working behind a desk is a cakewalk compared to manual labor, and I can attest to that because I have done both.

  47. Also, my dad was young, he was a roofer, and a few years ago I helped he reroof our garage. That job was miserable, considering the fact that you are constantly carrying heavy shingles up a latter, and nailing them down while getting baked by the sun. And this was a relatively simple and easy job. Roofing large houses or churches is dangerous as hell, because you are fifty feet off the ground, while carrying fifty pounds worth of shingles up a later. I would rather work in doc review any day of the week than subject myself to that line of work. Anyone else who has ever done roofing can relate, but I strongly doubt that any of you have.

  48. TJSL get sued AGAIN

    Via ATL: "Thomas Jefferson School of Law Sued Again"


  49. 12:59PM

    A few years ago, I attended my 20th year high school reunion. I went to a magnet school within the NYC public school system. My high school had a pre-med and pre-law program. I was pre-law and followed the career path and my situation falls within Nando's criteria for attending law school (i.e., fullride with connections to BigLaw).

    I was surprised to see how many kids from the pre-med program became lawyers. There were maybe 6 people that became MDs and I counted 15 former pre-med students that became lawyers. Some went to T14 schools and others attended shitpiles such as Hofstra, Touro, Carbozo, NYLS and Brooklyn. In my mind I knew these kids were weeded out by microbiology in undergrad and fell back on obtaining a law degree. Most of these people were complaining about how difficult it was to make a buck. I quickly stepped away and hung out with the "cool" kids. One of them, became a NYPD lieutenant, making over $150K per year. He was more cheeful about his life, saying he had time to foment a solid marriage and he was always around for his kids. How many lawyers do you honestly know that can say the same?

    The coup de grace came when we were exiting the banquet hall and into the parking lot. A former high school classmate of mine who was a prick and not smart became a supervisor with the NYC Dept. of Sanitation. He was bragging about living on Long Island and he was driving a 6-series convertible BMW. The pre-med now turned lawyers were driving Hondas, Toyotas and Kias. The sanitation guy was in shape, looked youthful and happy. Compare that to the haggard, slothful look on the pre-med now turned lawyers.

    If you ask me, blue collar work doesn't seem that bad at all.

    During college, I worked one summer in construction. It was a physically demanding job. When I got back to campus, I had put on 10lbs. of lean muscle weight and had a nice tan. My peers on the other hand had a pasty white and scrawny appearance. That was the best summer job I had. I was making $15 an hour in 1990 while kids working in offices were making $5.75 an hour. Having a white collar job is overrated, especially when I paid my HVAC guy $450.00 for 1.5 hours of work on Saturday.

    BTW, carrying 50 lbs. of weight up a ladder is not that difficult if you are in shape. I had to haul a 60lbs. jackhammer when I was 18. It was no big deal.

  50. My neighbor is about 35 and the guy owns his modest house outright. He runs a small construction firm. His house has hardwood floors, stained glass windows. His wife is so beautiful when you see her you get an instant hard on. I swear this woman must work out 6 hours a day.

    Oh, she's about late 20s and has had two kids. You can still bounce dimes off her midsection and probably her rear end too. The poor suffering fuck, he is working in a blue collar field.

  51. Concerning GPA Scores for Law School Students.

    I wonder, Are Science students handicapped by their lower GPAs when applying to law School?

    While Science students are most definitely as smart as Humanities students, Law schools care only about Undergrad GPA because their US "News" and World Report rankings depend on it.

    They don't care about majors, let alone the actual intellectual capacity of the students because they don't seem to need intellectual capacity. Law schools grade on curves, keep students other graduate programs would mercilessly kick, and don't use the students to do teaching or research. Someone with a major in 4.0 Studies counts just as much as someone with a major in Mechanical Biomathmatics.

    Interestingly enough, there is a relation between undergraduate major and average LSAT score according to Wikipedia anyway. It doesn't necessarily show a Humanities/Science divide. On the list shown Here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSAT#Scoring Physics/Mathematics majors Had the best LSAT scores right behind Economics, Philosophy, and Theology Majors. Computer Science and Finance majors are at the middle of the list. and Pre-Law and Criminal Justice majors are at the bottom of the list. (I guess the take home from here is don't study pre-law)

    I don't know where Franklin Pierce is getting Science majors with 149 LSAT scores, probably from the bottom of the barrel.

  52. To the guy who claims he worked construction for the summer: You are either lying about ever working construction, or are the first person I have ever heard say that they enjoy working construction. My guess is that your full of shit. Even if you did work for the summer when you were 16, try doing it when you are 40 years old and your body is falling apart.

    To the imbecile who posted at 4:36: Your neighbor is a general contractor, meaning that he stands there and delegates, and does not do any of the labor. On the contrary to what your very small and very limited brain may believe, you have to know your shit to have that position. You do not just start out as the general contractor; you bust your ass for 20 or so years, and just about when your knees and back are ready to give out, if you have a great rep in the construction business, and have done your time, you have a shot at becoming a general contractor.

    So let me get your logic straight moron. Since the man has a hot wife and a decent sized house, he loved working construction back when he was a grunt and doing all the labor. Having a hot wife is irrelevant; I never said a blue collar worker can't have an attractive wife, or make a nice living. My only point is that blue collar work is a hell of a lot more debilitating than white collar work, and those who say otherwise are either full of shit, or have never worked blue collar in their lives. Working 60 hours a week with your brain is one thing. Working 60 hours a week with your body is a whole different ball game.

  53. Yeah getting your head caved in over 50 fights would make you shake like a dog shitting razorblades too. Parkinson's my fuckin' ass. Let's call it what it is. It's called getting your brains bashed in.

  54. ^^ I don't know where Franklin Pierce is getting Science majors with 149 LSAT scores, probably from the bottom of the barrel."

    No one said they were getting science majors with 149 LSATs, only that the school, like many other schools, takes a "few" (you know what the word "few" means don't you?) individuals with lower LSAT scores. For all I know, the science majors are getting 160s. Maybe you need to read the post a little more closely.

  55. if you think blue collar work is a great alternative, you are crazy. People know that and it is a big reason why kids continue to apply in huge numbers to law school. They would rather go to Shit on Me School of Law with a less then 1% chance of becoming a lawyer that makes enough money to justify the loans then to go work construction. It might be a little fun when you are 22 and you are putting money in your pocket, but ask the 42 yr olds how they feel about working construction for the past 20 years.

    When I was 16 I spent 40 hrs a week moving heavy ass furniture for a summer. Now I was a young in shape strong kid and it was still back breaking and I was tired at the end of the day even after my body adjusted to the work. Now that I am 40, I could not have imagined doing this job for 20 years post high school. The older guys I worked with were all alcoholics, on pain meds, and had a comp claim or two. They looked like shit and most could not quite and go get a job in sales or dealing with the public. It was not their makeup. They were worker types which is fine but their options were limited. They were 35 and looked 55. They would have gotten an education if they could have but you still have to be able to do the work. We make fun of 4th tier crapper schools, but I dont remember it being a cakewalk to graduate law school and I went to school with many smart kids who just could not take standardized tests or had a bad day. If they failed to become lawyers, it had nothing to do with their brains relative to the high scoring LSAT scorer who got to go to a better school just because he could take a test better.

    As much as a pain in the ass practicing law is, I would not trade the 20 yrs in this profession for doing real blue collar work. I am certainly not mister happy lawyer but I know the alternatives. Yes I could stand to get a little more exercise and sitting a lot is not great, but I am much healthier then my blue collar bretheren who are my age. They might be skinny and have a better tan, but they are in more pain and more physically worn out then I ever will be.

    For those of you who talk about governement jobs as blue collar, that is a laugh. A teacher or cop in the northeast does next to nothing for way too much pay. Why do you think we are being taxed to death. It is to pay for overpaid government workers who would fail in the private sector because they actually had to work to justify these huge salaries. Everyones pay is going down yet government workers fight tooth and nail to get more and feel this entitlement. It sickens me to watch Obama and his wife tax us and spend our money on their personal vacations and to take care of their staff with outreageous pay.

    Law School is not a great idea now but even 20 years ago when I graduated, there were the same concerns but luckily our tuition was not as bad as it is now. That being said, dont be so blind to think blue collar is the way to go. It is not, otherwise there would be many less people applying to law school.

  56. 5:59 is absolutely right. I don't consider overpaid government workers like postmen or police officers to be blue collar workers. When I say blue collar, I mean a skilled laborer such as a mechanic, electrician, plumber, construction worker, mason, roofer, or painter. As the poster above stated, if blue collar jobs were so enjoyable, a hell of a lot less kids would be going to college. The fact of the matter is that most people would rather work with their brain, then work with their bodies. You white collar workers have no idea how good you have it. You sit here and bitch about having to deal with your shitlaw clients, while a plumber is working around shit all day, and a mason is busting his back carrying around cinder blocks. Stick to the law school scam guys, because you are all woefully ignorant when it comes to describing blue collar work. Also, most blue collar workers start out making shit wages (Usually less than 30 grand), and it takes several years of experience before they are actually making a decent living.

  57. ^^^ Re: Shit. I like excrement. It doesn't talk back ...

  58. ^ My father was a former roofer who ended up purchasing the family business whom he worked for since he was a teen. My father worked in construction while he studied architecture. There is a real reason why the Depression Era/GI Gen folks pounded college and white collar jobs to their Boomer and Gen X kids. Don't let anyone kid you: blue collar work is physically intense. One wrong move in lifting something could easily end your career.

    I used to work for my dad during the summer in his office, and I have seen many men who worked along his employees as sub-contractors on jobs who became injured. These guys would literally run to the hospital, get stitched up, and run right back to work. While the blue collar owner may do pretty well, the actual workers do not make much (on average a entry level worker who "runs" and assists makes about $10-$13 per hour). Forget about joining your local union today; trend is that most large contracting and construction companies are avoiding in hiring union workers. For all the bad press unions get, at least unions ensured blue collar workers received decent pay, otherwise a non-union worker can easily get away in being paid $25 for the rest of his life.

    Most GC's and construction companies also offer very limited benefits for its workers as well. My father was one of the few GC's who gave his workers healthcare, A&H coverage, and a savings plan to his employees as benefits. His competitors did not do that, and legally if the company operated lean (as in having less than 10 people on the payroll) they didn't have to. Most contracting and construction companies pay their workers hourly as well. True if you are blue collar, you should learn a trade such as plumbing, electrical, and carpentry to ensure better pay, and employment. However unless there is weather related work to be done, the economy deeply effects your profit. If people cannot afford to upgrade or do renovation work, there goes your pay. Age is also a big factor in this field unless you end up owning your own business. How many construction workers you know who are still working well into their 50's?


  59. ^^ They just hire illegal immigrants to do the grunt work while the old guy sits in his van smoking cigars.

  60. I think this all centers around the definition of "blue collar".

    Not every fucking "Blue Collar" job involves being a hod carrier for life. I consider blue collar to include electronics technicians, IT people, physicians' assistants, nurses, etc. YOU guys are essentially limiting the definition of "blue collar" your way. White collar, to me, anyway, is comprised of professionals and management ONLY.

    Sure, go the white collar route. Just don't fucking choose law. There are NO jobs in this shitball field, either. So you "Blue COllar" experts, continue to steer the kids away from blue collar wlrk, just keep them the fuck out of law unless you want to see YOUR kid with six-figure non-dischargeable-in-bankruptcy student loan debt, livng in YOUR fucking basement for life, with absolutely, positively NO chance of ever marrying or owning a home.

    Sound good? This isn't 1982, or whatever YOUR time machine reference for how great law is comes from.

  61. The guy who keeps saying blue collar work will cripple you is exaggerating. I live in the Northeast and I know many construction workers. This is their routine. Most work from April-October (construction months, operations cease for Winter during October-March.). From October-March, the construction workers go on unemployment and collect $1,200.00 every two weeks (NJ max. unemployment benefit rate), which comes out to $15.00/hr for sitting on their asses. However, most of the construction workers actually work under the table during the Winter in snow removal, making another $1,000.00 per week, tax free. When you add the unemployment benefits and the snow removal income, these blue collar workers are clearing $7,000.00 per month, which comes out to $84,000 a year pro-rata. With many newly minted attorneys starting out at $30-40K a year working slave driving hours, I think the blue collar work edges the white collar attorney. There is no prestige in being a lawyer. 20 years ago, it was impressive to introduce your significant other or spouse as an attorney. Today, if you were to make such an introduction, the first thing that pops into other people's mind is whether the person is an employed practicing law and how much are the student loan debts. Mr. Blue collar worker has no student loan debt to hold him down. Another benefit of construction work is you can move anywhere in the country and practice your craft. In the law, you are stuck in your jurisdiction, unless you want to take the bar exam and go to another jurisdiction (which can take months of non-compensated leave).

    And please spare me the cripple at 40 argument. If you are in shape, you can be in construction into your 60s and I have seen some hardcore Brazilian guys in their 60s haul pallets of concrete. Yes, most file for workers' comp. when they want to take a break and go on vacation. Yes, from time to time you hear a construction worker get hurt on the job but that is almost as rare as a hemophiliac office worker dying of blood loss as a result of a papercut.

    Last month, I just paid my plumber $350 for 45 minutes of work. Shit, that is over $450/hr, which is more than most associates bill out at. Plus, I have never heard of a doc reviewer make more than $50/hr. Blue collar work is honorable and it is not a bad alternative to the college grad's current plight (30% unemployment rate among college grads).

  62. And on a lighter note. Have you noticed that the picture that goes with this school is almost trying to predict a lemming's future?

    Look at it. The shit is all the lawyers that have been educated at low-tier law schools over the years, and the bowl can be thought of as the number of jobs available. The shit is piled twice as high as the bowl is deep.

  63. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=

    The piece of trash who keeps crying that blue collar work will crush you, grind you down, and make you look 55 when you are 35 years old is the troll from Alexandria, VA. As you can see from his visitor log below, this mental and emotional midget is responsible for the “blue collar work is foreign to all of you” posts on July 6th at 12:59 pm, 1:09 pm and 6:03 pm – as well as the July 7, 2011 7:41 am remark.

    Time Visitor Session
    Jul 7 2011 7:41am 2 actions 8m 53s
    Jul 7 2011 7:21am 2 actions 8m 44s
    Jul 6 2011 10:02pm 2 actions 1m 7s
    Jul 6 2011 8:22pm 6 actions 3m 47s
    Jul 6 2011 5:47pm 4 actions 17m 33s
    Jul 6 2011 2:23pm 1 action 1m 59s
    Jul 6 2011 12:59pm 4 actions 13m 38s
    Jul 6 2011 12:25pm 2 actions 8m 45s
    Jul 5 2011 3:22pm 3 actions 12m 9s
    Jul 4 2011 9:47am 1 action 8m 40s
    Jul 3 2011 5:09pm 2 actions 12m 15s
    Jul 3 2011 3:40pm 1 action 2m
    Jul 3 2011 1:53pm 16 actions 15m 5s
    Jul 2 2011 4:24pm 2 actions 9m 22s
    Jul 2 2011 12:47pm 2 actions 8m 44s
    Jul 1 2011 9:52pm 2 actions 8m 43s
    Jul 1 2011 12:10pm 2 actions 12m 44s
    Jun 30 2011 4:40pm 1 action 8m 39s
    Jun 30 2011 12:16pm 1 action 3m 40s

    This is the same retard who - at various times - has claimed to be the following: (a) a 2008 American University COL grad now making $120K as a Biglaw DC lawyer; (b) a tax attorney earning $150K per year; (c) a "professor" at the University of the District of Columbia Sewer of Law; (d) a Washburn University "law professor"; and (e) a JD from several TTTs and TTTTs who "graduated in the top 30 percent of his class and is now working at Goldman Sachs in New York."


    From the pig’s February 21, 2011 1:22 pm comment:

    “Alright guys, I lied and I am sorry. I am currently a professor at the University of D.C school of law.”

    The lying cockroach also has stated that he knows an average graduate of a third tier commode who is now working at Goldman Sachs in (wait for it) New York! According to my stats, this moron has made 266 visits to this site since February 18, 2011. Someone needs a life and a girlfriend, huh?!?!

  64. @9:57

    No one here is trying to steer anyone out of "blue collar" work per se. However there are some harsh realities in basing your career on physical labor and on your physical well being.

    Let's also be straight: for many decades, "blue collar" was associated with physical labor jobs, trades, and union jobs (i.e. police, firemen, etc.). "White Collar" historically applied to any job which required a degree However White vs. Blue argument is completely pointless. Outsourcing to Asia has affected both sectors in a major way, and if the attacks on unions continue the way they have, teachers, police officers, and firemen will be the next ones on the chopping block.


  65. Furthermore, many of the commenters here are not strangers to blue collar work, ass-clown. For instance, I have worked in construction as a framer. I have been employed in warehouses. I have unloaded and re-loaded commercial cargo, at the airport. Also, I worked at UPS loading packages and heavy boxes until 5 in the morning, the summer before my last year of law school. (The older guys were often in better shape and in higher spirits than the newcomers.) My father was a room service waiter for 25 years, and also worked in warehouses for several years. He had poor health, because he was a heavy drinker – not because the job wore him down.

    My favorite uncle was a restaurant cook for about 20 years, and now works for the city sanitation department. He is 52 years old, yet appears to be 40. He has the same amount of gray hairs as many 30 year old men. When he is engaged in physical activity, he runs circles around most young office dwellers. And some of those guys are in relative good shape. He has been conditioned to do that type of work.


    “In this study of white-collar workers, cumulative exposure to job strain led to significant increases in systolic blood pressure among men. Men who became exposed during follow-up showed similar increases. Effects tended to be more pronounced among men and women with low levels of social support at work.”

    Look at the mental and emotional stresses associated with white collar work, dumbass, i.e. hypertension; high blood pressure; diabetes; heart attacks; stroke. (Yeah, sitting on your ass all day long is not conducive to a long and healthy life.) As the excerpt above infers, white collar work tends to have less solidarity. Try working in a factory, bitch. Sure, you may put up with constant racist and sexist jokes and attitudes, but such work creates a certain bond among employees. Do…you…understand…that?!?! Or do I need to write this down for your ignorant ass, with Crayola on posterboard?

    Also, keep in mind that physical work produces tangible results. If you work in plant operations, you are still assigned tasks. You may need to fill out work orders. If you fix or replace a furnace, your boss knows your work product. If you are replacing a motor mount on a Toyota Camry, the customer and manager know if you did a good job.

    In contrast, when you are wearing a white collar, you need to work in TEAMS. Hence, someone can be the real driving force – in terms of ideas and action. However, ten other bastards will be quick to claim credit. I have seen this so many times, I now expect some pig to make it seem as if they played a larger role in one of my projects. Sometimes, the cockroaches will even cut you out of the process – once you have secured new funding. This, along with office politics, helps increase one's blood pressure, by the way.

    In the final analysis, there are hazards associated with all types of work. Is your solution for us to give up? You are welcome for having your silly straw men shoved up your rectum, cockroach. (I never said that blue collar work is heaven, ass-clown.) If you want me to beat you senseless – with the facts and logic – keep posting more nonsense, you piece of garbage.

  66. Well Nando, most experienced blue collar workers make more than the pathetic 40 grand you do now. So if plumbing and construction is so great, why don't you do that? I guess the loser who couldn't even find a job in the legal field is also an expert on all blue collar fields. Spare us all the bullshit. You know as well as I and everyone else does that working in an office is a cakewalk compared to manual labor. Otherwise, you never would have gone to college, or even considered a JD. You are a typical spic who comes to this country with an entitlement attitude, and expects everything on a silver platter. Hop back on your banana boat, and float back to the Dominican Republic.

  67. Time Visitor Session
    Jul 7 2011 12:53pm 1 action 2m
    Jul 7 2011 7:41am 2 actions 8m 53s
    Jul 7 2011 7:21am 2 actions 8m 44s

    Here is how one should read the 12:53 pm comment, from the miserable piece of waste who lives in the Alexandria, VA area:

    "Nando keeps beating me down. He continues to point out that I lied about working at Goldman Sachs or that I am a "law professor." I cannot respond with facts or reason. He insists on using charts, graphs, statistics, sound reasoning, and industry statements. My argument is weaker than a box of tissues. I know! I'll call him a spic and tell him to go to the Dominican Republic! Yes, that will win the argument for me."

    Listen, you piece of trash: I was born in this country. My mother's family has been here for eight or nine generations. Also, I am not going anywhere. If you had a girlfriend, I might take her to the Dominican Republic - so that she can know how it feels to be with a real man. After she blows me, she can kiss you on the lips. What do I care?

    By the way, did I ever say that construction and plumbing jobs are so great? Point it out chapter and verse, cockroach. That's what I figured. You NEVER back up any of your baseless assumptions, bitch.

    If YOU want to pretend to be a "law professor" or Biglaw associate in DC, go ahead. But do not be offended when I call you out as the pathological liar that you are. That is the risk you take when you continuously publish garbage and lies.


    Look at how the late, great George Carlin thoroughly HANDLED hecklers. I use the same principle, when dealing with law school industry apologist cockroaches and ball-less shills: Don’t yell at the guy with the microphone, especially when he has the facts on his side and 80 IQ points on you.

    Now that I have flushed your face and ass down the toilet again, you can float down into the filthy Potomac.

  68. That guy in Alexandria needs a job. It's obvious he doesn't have a life. Get laid aready, cocksucker. It'll take the edge off. Leave the law school stuff to those that've been through it.

  69. "... teachers, police officers, and firemen will be the next ones on the chopping block.


    July 7, 2011 11:38 AM"

    It is to be hoped, at least, that at least THESE unfortunate souls you have mentioned won't be saddled with soul-crushing, non-dischargeable-in-bankruptcy six-figure student loan debt AND a useless fucking non-elite JD which will cripple them in seeking other forms of endeavor.

  70. ANd don't get me started on law. Those I know stll attempting to practice typically are in pretty bad shape. We're talking major league obesity, diabetes, hypertension, anxiety disorders up-the-ass, not to mention rampant fucking alcoholism and chemical dependencies. Not to mention the HORRIFIC, nasty, greedy clients that won't pay you anyway. Yeah, have big fun with that.

    Yeah, have big fun "practicing law." And always just a step away from the next professional complaint and threat to your license. EVERYTHING is a potential conflict, State Bar up your ass regarding your IOLTA or other trust account, it just goes on and on....

  71. Nando had a blog entry on some Biglaw fatshit who keeled over aftre eating lunch. The guy was only 5o something. Can someone find that entry? It was a while back. And I am too lazy to go looking for it.

  72. How can teachers be on the chopping block? Are they going to start shipping kids overseas like they do law jobs?

  73. 11:08 has to be one of the most hilarious posts I have read.

    "Blue collar work is honorable "

    "This is their routine. Most work from April-October (construction months, operations cease for Winter during October-March.). From October-March, the construction workers go on unemployment and collect $1,200.00 every two weeks (NJ max. unemployment benefit rate), which comes out to $15.00/hr for sitting on their asses. However, most of the construction workers actually work under the table during the Winter in snow removal, making another $1,000.00 per week, tax free. When you add the unemployment benefits and the snow removal income, these blue collar workers are clearing $7,000.00 per month, which comes out to $84,000 a year pro-rata."

    "And please spare me the cripple at 40 argument. If you are in shape, you can be in construction into your 60s and I have seen some hardcore Brazilian guys in their 60s haul pallets of concrete. Yes, most file for workers' comp. when they want to take a break and go on vacation. Yes, from time to time you hear a construction worker get hurt on the job but that is almost as rare as a hemophiliac office worker dying of blood loss as a result of a papercut."

    I just spit up my breakfast on my computer...lol
    You say it like this is a badge of honor and you are proud of this behavior.

    So Blue Collar work is better because you can game the system?


    This is our modern day USA. People who try to get an education too often get totally worthless degrees and go into way too much debt and end up justifiably bitter and pissed off like Nando or they become blue collar workers who use our entitlement system to do as little work as possible.

    Keep voting Democrat people. At some point we are going to run out of other peoples money and we will be Europe with a much bigger illegal alien population.

  74. 6:07 - Deluded Hannibot. hahaa. what a joke.

  75. @5:17: don't read papers much huh?

    School district where my nephew attends school downsized 700 employees, 400 of those employees were teachers.

    Do you really think only outsourcing is the only problem here? How about school districts which have a significant percentage of illegal immigrants whose kids attend those schools? Legally you cannot turn a child away in attending school. However those children are getting a free ride so to speak because their parents are not paying local and state taxes, money being placed back to the BOE. The class sizes are increased, but the amount of tax dollars earned is not enough to cover the overhead and increased population. When the state cannot provide funding and the local taxes coming in are not enough, what do you think happens next dumb ass?

    (And please don't speak about teachers earning six figures--not true. My sister has worked as a teacher for over 15 years, and has three degrees and does not even earn nearly six figures; millionare school teachers are a fucking myth).

    @6:07--you are the delusional one here hommie. You think the Democratic Party is for the people? That political party is one big ass, well oiled PR campaign that trumps itself as the party for the people, but could not give a flying hoot-tan-nanny about the working class as it delved into Social Security and Medicare for over four decades and gave hard earned tax dollars freely to those who invade our country to hoard off the system just to get more votes.

    And while I am still on-top of my soap-box, this must be said:

    While my heart goes out to recent law grads who graduate with such extraordinary debt, don't think others who got laid off have it easy either. It's not that easy marketing a job in another field when you are a teacher, a plumber, a baker, or candle stick maker. There are no jobs out there! These folks are not having it easy either.

    One more thing I like to add which also contributes to the huge student loan debt problem facing recent law grads. The US Legal system in how it is structured is bullshit in that there is no ranking system among lawyers as they are in other countries. Just maybe if the damn ABA and State Bar Associations were so damn greedy and looking out for #1 and damn gung ho on attorneys having to do **everything** such as stupid, no-brainer shit like residential home closings, simple contracts, divorces where both parties agree and don't have children, etc. and allowed paralegals to be licensed to carry out some of those low end duties, or created attorney ranking (like in the UK) in which newly minted attorneys handle lower court work, etc. just maybe you wouldn't have the problems the US legal field faces today in that every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jose who wants a career in law is more or less forced to run their asses off to law school because you need a fucking license to do everything in this damn country.

    Sorry for the long rant...


  76. If you graduate from a TTToilet, you may find yourself performing unethical work just so you can pay the bills. I graduated from UNH Law in 2008 and one of my classmate's "law firm is fighting an enforcement action – and a threatened $60 million in fines." http://www.nhbar.org/publications/display-news-issue.asp?id=5597. This beacon of integrity ran a "loan modification mill" and charged clients upwards of $2,500 with the promise of reducing their interest rates and payments. Turns out he did not deliver and was also not "licensed to do the work, and his office doors are now closed, leaving more than 100 clients in the dark...he is facing 108 violations and could be fined millions of dollars if found guilty." - http://www.wmur.com/r/26001288/detail.html (TV coverage included). Look at the video and try to keep a straight face saying that white collar work is more dignified than working as a contractor. And then look at this dude's health! He could definitely hit the gym more often to put it charitably. Also, a judge found that this classmate "failed to safeguard client files and employed two people who misrepresented themselves as attorneys." http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/240679/attorney-broke-law-officer-says?CSAuthResp=%3Asession%3ACSUserId|CSGroupId%3Aapproved%3ABA4A9537C4BF4594E11F4B09D8217743&CSUserId=94&CSGroupId=1

  77. UNH Attorney faces $60 MILLION in fines. http://www.nhbar.org/publications/display-news-issue.asp?id=5597.

    For local news coverage, click here http://www.wmur.com/r/26001288/detail.html

  78. "Daniel Dargon, whose law firm is fighting an enforcement action – and a threatened $60 million in fines."


    Well, if you are getting disbarred, you may want to do so in a blaze of glory, right!?

    In the final analysis, if you graduate from FPLC, you will not represent Google in a copyright infringement case, draft patents for a hot new Silicon Valley start-up, or negotiate a deal between Robert De Niro and a Hollywood studio. The only way that you will receive ink in the ABA Journal is if there is a story on your unethical conduct.


  79. I graduated from the Fecal Pooper Law Crapper in 2008 and despite its janitorial efforts to rebrand itself as "UNH Law", the school will always have the foetid stench of a TTT. This toilet's profile prompted me investigate the fates of my fellow classmates and little did I know that I would find someone responsible for the explosive diarrhea in the picture. Check out the shit he is swimming in now:

    "The state said Dan Dargon's firm wasn't licensed to do the work, and his office doors are now closed, leaving more than 100 clients in the dark...Dargon is facing 108 violations and could be fined millions of dollars if found guilty."


    (TV coverage included so you can see this guy defend himself.)

    This beacon of integrity ran a "loan modification mill" and charged clients upwards of $2,500 with the promise of reducing their interest rates and payments. Of course, he was too busy finding new suckers instead of actually working with creditors. Any work done by his firm consisted of filling out forms that could have been easily done by the scammed clients.

    "Judge also found that Dargon broke the law by entering into best efforts contracts with his clients and collecting advance fees for his services, which along with the unlicensed loan originations are violations punishable by fines of up to $2,500 per client.

    And he found that Dargon failed to safeguard client files and employed two people who misrepresented themselves as attorneys."

  80. @5:17 I posted a lengthy response, however for some reason my post never was published. This country is not only affected by outsourcing silly. Children of illegal immigrants are one of the reasons why many school districts are in peril. The school district which my nephew attends had to lay-off nearly 700 people, 400 of those positions were teachers and teacher assistants. Now how are teachers effected by this? When you have to teach an over-whelming number of students in which that number is not matched by incoming income tax. Children of illegal immigrants pretty much receive education for free--their parents do not pay state and local taxes, therefore having a serious effect on the school budget. When the state and local funding fall short, what do you think happens dumb ass? Quite apparent you are not reading the newspapers.

  81. @7:22 The joke is on you hommie. Do you really think the Democratic Party really gives a rats ass about you? The Dems have become a big ass, well oiled PR machine trumpeting the rights of people, meanwhile when that party is in power, it rades Social Security, Medicare, and other support funding put in place by hard earned tax dollars just to get more votes. Perfect example of the Dems not really caring is their refusal for this country to have an official language of record. Wonder why so many places are having issues with language barrier? The Democratic Party for years has been ignoring the fact that a large percentage of immigrants do not have command of the English language, yet have done nothing to officialize English. The Dems got their votes from Hispanics and Asians, but whoopity do--try managing a workforce that does not speak your language. This country was not created being billingual. We don't teach Spanish as a second language as the Canadians do with French, or the Swiss and Italians do in teaching French as a second language. Some states now have to issue forms up to eight different languages thanks to the Dems just wanting to secure votes.

  82. I graduated from Fisher Price Law Center in the early 2000's. Here is one of my classmates that actually "made" it big upon graduation, but threw it all away for a measly $36,000 in ill gotten gains in the Galleon Hedge Fund scandal:


    But at least he still has a hot wife, if she hasn't left him yet.


    I agree with the poster @ 11:04. Big corporations will not come to you for IP work out of this school (with rare exception, i.e., unless you happen to land a big law job and get client contact). The best you can hope for is representing garage inventors with a lot of big ideas, but not a lot of money. You'll waste tons of time learning about their "invention" resulting in a low return on investment. If you are a "hard" IP type, i.e., patents, then you might be able to make it all work out coming from this school. If you are soft IP (TM, copyrights) don't waste your fucking time. There are so many people that are doing this type of work now that firms have their pick of the litter - and they're not picking runts from Fisher Price Law Center.

    /s/ the unemployed patent attorney from FPLC

  83. Is it really called Fisher-Price law center?!


    When I was a kid, Fisher Price (I think) made these awesome Star Wars micro-machines. I had them all: Death Stars, X-Wings, Chewbacca. It's sad to see the name of such a respected toy maker ruined by this garbage law school.

  84. Here's another alum from the great Fisher Price Law Center. This guy actually was an adjunct professor, and I ironically took his class. I distinctly remember him talking about how he never used cell phones; always a pay phone. I thought he was paranoid, but now I understand what he was up to (see link):


  85. @ 11:21 Piece of liquid dog shit,

    your source is newspaper propaganda?LOL*YAWN* Just as believable as the supposed "nursing shortage". Hundreds of unemployed nursing are wondering where this supposed shortage is. Continue reading the almighty newspaper, you lemming. Media is ALWAYS right!

  86. Thank you for all of these links and news articles, which help explain why the school is a pile of raw fecal matter.



    The University of New Hampshire School of Law (formerly Franklin Pierce Law Center) (J.D., 2003)"

    Rachel is very attractive. I notice that she lists her J.D. from University of New Hampshire Sewer of Law, even though she graduated from law school in 2003. Do these trash pits issue their living graduates a new diploma, when the schools change their name?


    “Brien Santarlas, a former Ropes & Gray attorney, plead guilty to charges of fraud and conspiracy in Manhattan federal court today.

    Prosecutors say Santarlas accepted thousands of dollars in cash in exchange for providing co-conspirators with the confidential information of firm clients about the acquisitions of 3Com and Axcan Pharma.”


    “JAMES B. COMEY, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, announced that STEPHEN MALES, Jr., New Hampshire lawyer and law professor, was convicted last night in Manhattan federal court of 11 counts of wire fraud stemming from MALES’ participation in a scheme to induce a money manager to invest more than $100 million in a sham investment program. The conviction followed a one-week jury trial before United States District Judge LEWIS A. KAPLAN.”

    I wonder if the ass-hat known as Stephen Males, Jr. taught “ethic$” and “profe$$ional re$pon$ibility” at Third Tier UNH Sewer of Law.


    “And the issue is very real to Concord attorney Daniel Dargon, whose law firm is fighting an enforcement action – and a threatened $60 million in fines – for allegedly acting as "loan originators" without obtaining necessary licenses. The law firm also faces contempt charges for refusing to allow the Banking Department to examine its client files to determine whether it was complying with the limitations of an injunction which halted the original enforcement action.”


    Daniel “Piggy” Darger is facing $60 million in fines. As you can see, he received his law degree from Franklin Pierce Law CenTTTer. Does this stink pit even offer a course on ethics?!?!

  87. Yes, the school is reissuing UNH diplomas to FPLC grads. I may not fool you, but at least I can tell my clients I went to a "state" school.

  88. @12:29 guess you missed reading that my nephew's schoold district had to lay off nearly 400 teachers and teacher aids two months ago? I mentioned newspapers because school laying off teachers, asistants and staffs don't make it onto MSNBC, CNN, MSNBC you stupid bag of douche. Do you think the legal profession is the only profession out there fucking hurting and in trouble now? I also know a teacher who just got laid off working in NYC's school district after three years you dumb ass! Posts from dipsticks like you give the rest of us in the legal field a bad name. Try doing some research first before blast someone moron.

    Now fuck off and go back to watching MSNBC trying to convince yourself the rest of the nation is great shape lemming!

  89. @ dumb fuck 12:29:


    Deal is this shit already happened and 700 people ended up on the unemployment line in Yonkers, NY this week because the budget is still not finalized.

    I know this has little to do with Nando's post and my apologies in veering off topic, but for fucksakes people, others are hurting from this goddamn recession too.

  90. UNH School of Law is still a third tier piece of shit and that's the bottom line. It's barely in the third tier even. It doesn't matter if the t.p. says UNH or Franklin Pierce. By the looks of it they don't even bother teaching their students to not sell insider tradeinfo.

  91. @ 2:52

    reject to society,

    And I'm sure your low income county is a representation of ALL of America, right? Here,where we actually pay a decent amount of tax and don't receive government help, not ONE of our wonderful teachers has been laid off. Should I be a dumbass and say this represents all of America, like your non GED having self did? n=/1 idiot. Hurry up and reapply for your welfare and food stamps that my tax dollars pay for, I hear the application is open.

  92. @ 2:52

    reject to society,

    And I'm sure your low income county is a representation of ALL of America, right? Here,where we actually pay a decent amount of tax and don't receive government help, not ONE of our wonderful teachers has been laid off. Should I be a dumbass and say this represents all of America, like your non GED having self did? n=/1 idiot. Hurry up and reapply for your welfare and food stamps that my tax dollars pay for, I hear the application is open.

  93. To all the people ragging on the blue collar workers:

    Fuck you. Seriously. Not one of you "Libertarian" scumfucs seems to recognize that the average working-class male has a wife and child (or children) that they have to support. Yeah they may not have the debts of the TTT-"trained" lawyer, but they have to work all the time to keep afloat, even if they have to cheat during the "off season." That thousand bucks shoveling snow probably pays for little Timmy's teeth or some other familial debt. I know of way too many people in the working class (none of them cops or any of the blue collar jobs that other guy won't count as proletarian labor) who were THIS CLOSE to living on the street because construction job X petered out and they were looking for labor job Y while moonlighting as a security guard, 7-11 clerk, whatever. It may be healthier than the mindfuck, my-ass-is-growing-into-my-chair factory of paperwork that is the modern office, but one screwup and the guy is out on his ass with a fucked up back, or joints, or missing body parts. And God help you if you work in a shipyard*: people are always getting crushed or mangled in one way or the other.

    So yeah, fuck the haters.


    * My grandfather worked down at NASSCO engineering the pipe-systems for oil tankers in the mid-1970s....he could only do engineering for them off-and-on because the shipyard hires and fires for blocks of ships, and when they are done, everybody but the skeleton of administration is fired. Then they hire a whole new crew for the next block of ships. I've tried to hire on with NASSCO but they won't take me, even though I know how to weld; I think it's because I am no good at math, and I don't have a criminal record (I think they use that to control their workforce.)

  94. ^ For the record dumbass, I have a job and I pay nearly $400 each week in state, fed, and local taxes. I also possess two degrees from two top tier universities, and a paralegal certificate from 1T NYU dipshit. I did the responsible thing going back in 1999 when I was accepted into both Fordham and Pace in deciding not to take the law school plunge. I didn't need to prove shit to anyone that I was smart. My only regret now is that due to my lack of a JD and the fact the way the US legal system is set up that the attorney is King and gets to fucking do *everything* from easy shit like residential closings and simple contracts, I have to report to some fuckwit who has a JD from one of schools I was accepted into, but cannot tell me what fucking comes first: a preliminary conference, or a fucking deposition. But fuck it, that's my life. I chose not be in debt. I was smart, way smarter than you ass wipe that I decided to work in fucking law FIRST before running off to law school so I could fucking brag that I have a fucking JD from either a TTT that offered me a small scholorship, or fucking drown in debt so I could graduate from a T50.

    Not only am I not in debt, and I got to help save my childhood home from being foreclosed fuck face, I was able to find a fucking job douche bag after being downsized in 2009. Now go have fun convincing yourself you are so fucking smart because you have a fucking JD. You and your motherfucking six figure debt due to your fucking ego can go fuck yourself. And if you do have a job know this: fucking attorneys get black balled easy. You fuck up, you can lose your license to practice law. You piss off the managing attorney or partner, kiss your sorry ass career good bye. I've seen plenty of good attorneys get sacked because they could not make nice with the top brass in Big Law and in-house counsel. I've witnessed a great attorney have his career fucked so hard in NYC, the dude had to move to fucking IA so he could practice law because he did not agree with the Assoc GC.

    Go suck on a bag of dicks and take that one reject.

    ((Apologies to the rest here who don't deserve being stuck with student loan debt. Bitch at 3:51 who fucking double posted had this one coming to him.))

  95. While I am fucking at it douche bag, NYC is in financial crisis in which that city may have to lay off up to 1000 workers in the school system. New York Fucking City man, one of the most wealthiest, expensive cities in the world man.

    Dumb fuck...

  96. Everybody happy tonight?

  97. You know UNH's 4th place rank in IP is meaningless when a 12 year old Thai boy teaches copyrights there - http://law.unh.edu/marywong/

  98. to summarize all these posts....

    law school might be a risky proposition now days, but it sounds like the blue collar alternatives arent much better and its so bad the workers have to game the system to stay afloat and those that chose the office paralegal/non lawyer job route are debt free but pissed off they have to answer to someone with a JD who supposedly is not as smart as them.

    No wonder the applications to law schools are dropping and the only person who does not have a law school named after them is Jack in the Box.

    This blog is making a difference. Keep it up ;)

  99. This post has brought out the worst in people. That said this article made me laugh so hard I had tears streaming down my face.

    Then I remembered that I graduated from a top tier law school five years ago and was shut out. I volunteered at legal aid for a stint. But then decided to grow up and pay my fucking bills. And now I'm laughing some more at the whole situation.

  100. if you btards are even slightly intelligent you would move to some selective states (eg: CA) and become .gov employees there. They make avg. salaries of 100K or more in few yrs, with full health for life and retirement benifits. It requires may be a BS at best (in knitting for all they care).

    the country is so fucked - Only Wall.St employees, .gov employees or the entitlement/leech/poor-fucks make off well...everbody else are enslaved to those guys.

  101. @7:34. Yeah I have no idea why they put this individual is such a high position. She's not even a U.S. trained attorney for fuck's sake. Just another bad decision by the school, but maybe that will keep the foreigners coming to pay the professors' salaries.


    And she does indeed look like some kewpie doll. Probably never had a firm job in the U.S. in her life, yet she's teaching patent law at the "fourth" best IP school in the nation. Give me a fucking break.

  102. Although not on point with this post, I would like to mention that law schools have not updated the tired same ole "Ethics and Professional Responsibility" courses. Sure they teach you not to raid the trust account or comingle funds but they don't discuss insider trading or bending the laws to operate as a foreclosure rescue mill out of your law offices. Perhaps the law school professors are too lazy to update the curriculum or maybe they give the law students of the past 20 years too much credit of common sense. The following examples are true, if you google them, you will find them:

    1) Lawyer gets suspended for using client's credit cards for personal trips then files a bankruptcy for the client seeking a discharge of the misused debts.

    2) Lawyer gets suspended for asking a client with no money to strip naked in his office or make out with another female friend.

    3) Lawyer gets suspended for telling clients to break into their former homes after foreclosure default all the while getting retainer monies for this illegal advice.

    4) Lawyer dies (heart attack) during ethics probe and possible federal investigation over his offices' handling of hundreds of real estate closings that were wrought with fraud (e.g., phony W-2 statements, undisclosed full purchase price on HUD statements, etc.). This lawyer actually tried to place the blame on his secretary claiming he had no way to supervise her on all the closings.

    5)Lawyer/Priest gets suspended for taking money out of trust account to help a female member of his "flock" who had fallen on bad times and could not pay the rent. Lawyer claims he intended on paying back the monies into the trust account.

    These are just a few examples of stupid lapses of judgment that attorneys make. With six figure debt staring them in the face, it won't surprise me to see young attorneys lose their law licenses by pulling dumb shit like price fixing (collude to set retainer fees low to outprice competition) or unbundling of services (e.g., lawyer charges $500 to draft divorce complaint, another $500 to fill out case info. statement, $1,000 to go to the first hearing, etc.). Malpractice insurance brokers must be making a killing these days.

  103. And, remember, kids, the general public views ALL lawyers as being filthy rich with a gravy train job. Americans typically know only what they see on television, and think that what is portrayed by Hollywood is the experience of the typical lawyer.

    Ergo, never forget that IF YOU FUCK UP, they will sue your ass in a blink/ file a professional complaint against you at the drop of a hat. There is ZERO sympathy out there in the general public for attorneys, and you are viewed as FAIR GAME. Even a pro bono that you have to do has the very real possibility of biting you in the ass, as we all now law school does not teach you how to practice law. Not even close.

  104. This school is a joke. Maybe they'll change the name again so it can move up a few spots.

  105. FPLC was ahead of the game in developing a specialized curriculum in intellectual property law. But like the Tour de France, leading for the first few stages doesn't mean a victory in the whole race. Many schools have jumped on the IP bandwagon and are leaving FPLC in the dust.

    Therefore, FPLC reputation as an IP leader is all but gone. C'mon, do you think a firm would reject a Stanford grad because his/her school has a new IP program and instead choose a FPLC grad? Nothing can be done to stop FPLC's decline. T6s have the prestige to attract the best IP faculty (i.e. Lawrence Lessig at Harvard). Furthermore, T1 schools have far better IP course offerings. A friend of mine graduated from Columbia and took courses on music licensing, movie production, and a handful of others on IP transactions. While FPLC only has a class on Copyrights which is taught directly from a casebook. FPLC's strong suit is patent prosecution, but soon, that field will be Pangea3ed out of the United States. Besides, patent prosecution is not a cash cow like IP litigation, which is at major firms that don't hire FPLC grads.

    If you want more evidence that FPLC is a bad bet, pick up a Vault guide to the best firms in IP. Select one at random and visit its website. Now look up the attorneys using the "law school" search feature. I guarantee there will be no FPLC alums at that firm.

    -FPLC '08. Member of the Lost Generation. Replaced by T1 contract attorney.

  106. This is an interesting thread. It inspired me to google "nursing shortage" and "myth" and I found this recent thread:


    Although I suspect that nursing graduates are in the main far better off than most law school graduates, the issues raised sound very familiar (schools promoting false information about job prospects in order to increase enrollment). One of the posts mentions that physical therapy and pharmacy also are not the tickets they are portrayed to be.

    I've spent a lot of time in the last few years wishing I had gone the health sciences route instead of law. Perhaps the reality is that there is no safe harbor, or even a "much less dangerous" one.

    Sending love to you Nando, for all the fine work you do here.

  107. @ 9:02. I agree. Also a UNH alum. Your best bet coming out of UNH Law is in patent PROSECUTION. But you better have the scientific goods, i.e., Ph.D. or masters with significant work experience. I'm not saying it can't be done at the bachelor's level, but it will be very difficult circa 2011. Getting into the patent LITIGATION game is another story coming out of UNH Law. In litigation, one's scientific background becomes less important and so big firms would rather hire someone from a T14 school. As you can imagine, many litigators don't give a crap about whether you have a Ph.D. or not, they just care about what law school you attended.

  108. Franklin Pierce is about one thing - giving rich Indian an LLM so they can take the bar in New York or California, or return to India and decimate the US legal profession through outsourcing.

    I work as an attorney in California and have worked in India, so I'm saying this from experience.

  109. Btw, I'm a patent prosecutor, 10 yrs experience, and I pull in a sweet 70K a year baby and live in constant fear of outsourcing! Just glad to actually still have a job, unlike many of my other colleagues. I spend my nights taking database courses so I can leave once and for all.

    So if you had hoped that patent law was your meal ticket, man are you way off. Patent law is taking a huge nose dive with the surge of engineers deluded to switch careers because law is so lucrative. I know people with MSEE and other degrees who went to law school and now make less than I do in patent law. This is in California no less.

    Yes, there are those two or three lucky bastards that get hired by Big Law still. But if you weren't top of your class at a Top 10, don't even try.

  110. This article doesn't even mention another way law schools are working against their students. Many law schools (such as Franklin Pierce) are now in the business of providing LLM's to rich overseas students. This allows them to sit for the bar in New York and California. What's worse, many of these students return to India and now populate the huge legal outsourcing industry there, contributing to the utter decimation of the legal profession in the U.S., especially for new grads.

    By Richard Modigliani Marin County, Ca

    Comment 215 on the NYTimes article Law School Economics: Ka-Ching!


  111. This article doesn't even mention another way law schools are working against their students. Many law schools (such as Franklin Pierce) are now in the business of providing LLM's to rich overseas students. This allows them to sit for the bar in New York and California. What's worse, many of these students return to India and now populate the huge legal outsourcing industry there, contributing to the utter decimation of the legal profession in the U.S., especially for new grads.


  112. This article doesn't even mention another way law schools are working against their students. Many law schools (such as Franklin Pierce) are now in the business of providing LLM's to rich overseas students. This allows them to sit for the bar in New York and California. What's worse, many of these students return to India and now populate the huge legal outsourcing industry there, contributing to the utter decimation of the legal profession in the U.S., especially for new grads.

  113. I absolutely agree with 10:31 and 3:47. As a FPLC/UNH alum and an unemployed one at that, the school definitely seems to cater to foreign students. The school has strong connections with China and to demonstrate how much the school wants to stick its nose up China's (and the rest of the world's) ass, just take a look at Prof. Dipshit Hennessey. I guess he needed that Ph.D. in Chinese language to secure his position at the school. These LLM programs need to stop.


  115. UNH Grad programs are true shit. I refuse to hire from them and so do others apperently, because they tend to average <50% hire rate 6 months out and the stats don't look much better a year out. They'll be a great combination, shit and crap mingling as one. I'm fine hiring from a no-name school but when the school has a bad reputation, and one that I have tested and have learned is well earned, sorry I'm just not interested in wasting my time or the open position on someone too incompetent to graduate from a real school.

  116. The above poster hire no one from any school, because he is a puerile incompetent turd. UNH MBAs dominate the state's corporate leaders (more CEOs in the state than any other school). Your claim is asinine.

    As for the law school, I won't challenge the other comments too much, except to say that I go there and am happy with it. Very happy. Any "hiring partner" who excludes people like me who took a full ride rather than pay full price for a place like BC will be hiring someone with no clue on the bottom line. Admittedly, this is not a representative sample, but everyone I know at the school had a paid 1L summer internship or associateship of some kind.

  117. @12:54,

    How large is your unrepresentative sample? By the way, anecdotal stories - from anonymous posters - are not quite as persuasive as HARD facts. Hopefully, you are aware of this. Anyway, this school is a laughingstock. Why do you think the commode changed its name from Franklin Pierce Law Center?

    In the end, a turd by any other name smells just as rotten.

  118. I second the thoughts on UNH WSBE/Soon to be Peter T. Paul grads, great party school with no real substance. I would sooner hire a HS grad and train for the position then try to go through the effort of retraining yet another UNH MBA to basic levels of business decorum. I mean really, calling out because you're hungover again, on a Tuesday!?!! Add the ethical concerns that have been brewing for a few years now and the place is a ticking time bomb for an ethics scandal. Good luck with that.

  119. My jaw dropped when I found out how much FPLC/UNH charges these days for tuition. Please, anyone considering going to this law school, do yourself a favor and do something else. It was a ripoff when I went more than 10 years ago, and the tuition was less than half what it is now. I recently received an emailed video from the dean asking for money. I had to laugh. He said my donation would help protect the value of my degree. It has been nearly worthless to me. It makes me sad to say this, but I think it would be best if this school closed down. I cannot imagine the school is able to admit a large percentage of applicants able to find legal jobs, but the school will continue to admit people anyway. It has bills to pay. I don't know how the administration sleeps at night knowing the damage it does to the lives of many of its students. They have to know. It makes me wonder. Are they extra nice to these applicants, like farmers leading a favorite pig to slaughter?

  120. This school sent me a brochure for their top international law program. It had a photograph of a foreign-looking lady standing in front of the UN as if that meant something. I didn't know American lawyers working at The Hague, Brussels and Geneva were coming out of third tier law schools. Truly amazing.

    But hey, they jumped in the USN&WR rankings from 143 to 119! They were so happy about this tremendous achievement as well as their meaningless top 10 placement in a speciality ranking.


    Truly this justifies any future tuition increases UNH might decide upon.

  121. The atmosphere at this school is deadly. Professors and staff are unhappy and seem to be terrorized by the administration. The Dean loves to hear himself talk and treats us students as know-nothings. We pay his salary! Don't waste your money. Don't waste your time.


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