Sunday, August 21, 2011

Grab the Two Ply: Second Tier Septic Tank University of Houston Law Center

The school is home of the frightening garden gnome/ass-hat known as Michael Olivas. Seeing that first tier law schools also provide MANY of their students and grads with anemic job prospects, we can start flushing toilets that occupy the second tier.

http://www.law.uh.edu/admissions/tuition.html

Tuition: For the 2011-2012 school year, Texas residents attending the Univer$iTTy of Hou$TTon Law Commode, on a full-time basis, will pay $28,129.80 in tuition and fees. Non-residents attending this trash pit, as full-time students, will be charged $38,805.30 in tuition and fees - for the same academic year. So much for attending an in-state school, in order to save money, huh?!?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+3

Ranking: According to US "News" & World Report, University of Houston Law Septic Tank is rated as the 56th best, most amazing and fantastic law school in the United States. With such a "solid" ranking, I'm surprised that these pigs are not charging in-state residents $37K per year in tuition.

http://www.law.uh.edu/career/resources/WheretheJobsAre2010.pdf

Alleged Employment Placement: On page 17 of this PDF, you can see that this trash heap claims that 92% of its Class of 2010 was employed within nine months of graduation. Yeah, sure it was - and Lauren Graham just locked her ankles around my waist. Then again, this figure takes into account those Univer$iTTy of Hou$TTon JDs working at Lowe's, selling insurance for Allstate, and those working as doormen at Viviana's Night Club.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+7

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US "News" lists the average student indebtedness of University of Houston Law Center grads from the Class of 2010, who incurred law school debt, as $65,802. Fully 82 percent of this particular class took on such toxic debt for their second tier law degree. Keep in mind that this does not take undergrad debt into account. Who wouldn't want to start their "professional career" off owing a small, NON-DISCHARGEABLE mortgage, right?!?!

http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee-salaries/university-of-houston-system/departments/dean-law/6677/

Administrator and Faculty Pay: Since we are dealing with a public toilet, we will refer to The Texas Tribune, in order to find out how much the pigs are raking in, each year. We can see that Michael Olivas "earned" $169,646 last year. Dean Raymond Timmer made $301,000, while William Streng brought in $194,000. You will also notice that Joseph Sanders made $189,000, whereas Richard Alderman claimed a salary of $175,000. Who says you can't teach at a public university and make a decent living?!

http://houston.lawschoolnumbers.com/

"Generosity" of the Commode: According to Law School Numbers, for 2005-2006, this sewer provided full tuition scholarships plus a stipend to 0.2% of students. An additional 3.7 percent of students received a half-tuition scholarship, to attend this dung pit. Furthermore, LSN notes that 93.2% of this commode's Class of 2005 was employed within nine months of graduation.

http://www.law.uh.edu/center4clp/

As a student at this dung heap, you have the unique opportunity to intern at the Center for Children, Law & Policy. Imagine how impressed law firms will be to see this "experience" on your resume. Also, make sure not to tell attractive woman about this - unless you want them to physically attack you and rip your clothes off.

http://www.law.uh.edu/ihelg/

If you prefer, you can partake in something called the Institute for "Higher Education Law" and Governance. I wonder if this center advocates for more spending on "higher education." By the way, notice that Olivas and his ratty-ass beard wrote the casebook for this course - which is available at the suggested retail price of $95.00. See how well "higher education" pays off?!?!

Conclusion: In the last analysis, the University of Houston Law Center overcharges its students and does not adequately train them to practice law. In fact, this overpriced trash pit does not sufficiently prepare its students to pass the bar exam. Imagine pissing away three years of your life - and an additional $65K-$80K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - and then needing to take a prep course. Lastly, employing the Socratic Method and assigning parsed, archaic, 18th century property cases does not provide one with the requisite skills or understanding to undertake a case.

76 comments:

  1. How many law schools are in Texas? And why is this public school so fucking expensive for TX residents?

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  2. Is that a philisophical question? It is high because it can be. Discuss.

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  3. Nando, I think that you should start writing about T14 schools too. As a student at one of them, I feel like I'm being left out of the party on this website. Although T14 schools tend to have slightly better job prospects, they also tend to have significantly worse debt loads, and I know a shitload of T14 students (outside of HYS) who employers won't even look at by this point.

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  4. The law prof's just want a piece of the 46 trillion pie. US billionaires and millionaires have 46 trillion in wealth. The administriators and professors just want to live like the american plutocratic monarchy. Can you blame them?

    http://www.alternet.org/story/151999/meet_the_global_financial_elites_controlling_%2446_trillion_in_wealth/?page=1


    "According to an extensive study by auditing and financial advisory firm Deloitte, US millionaire households now have $38.6 trillion in wealth. On top of the $38.6 trillion this study reveals, they have an estimated $6.3 trillion hidden in offshore accounts.
    In total, US millionaire households have at least $45.9 trillion in wealth, the majority of this wealth is held within the upper one-tenth of one percent of the population."

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  5. This past week, I had lunch with a 1L who started law school this past week. I am his mentor and he now attends my alma mater. He bored me over with his excited recitation of Hadley v. Baxendale and it hit me. 20 years later and the same professor is teaching the same material, even employing the same jokes. Nothing has changed in teaching the law except the obscene compensation structure and the textbook of course, which contains the same case as it did in the first edition, but is now in its 18th edition because every year some legal academic has a new take on a 100 year old case that is never cited in practice.

    I was horrified to learn that tuition is now 600% higher than when I attended. I don't know where these law schools get off on misrepresenting employment stats. It seems every law school, even at the bottom of the barrel (e.g., Cooley) claims 85-95% employed. If I were as liberal on my tax return as the law schools are with the employment stats, I would be in jail.

    Higher education is a profitable business. Law schools have little overhead except professors' salaries. In the mob, there are no-show jobs for which people get paid on the books for doing nothing. Law professors don't contribute to anything productive except create a caste of indentured servants.

    I suppose some professor may read this and say that I am envious. I make more money than most law professors, but less than Dean Sargent or a Dick Matasar. However, I am at peace with myself in that I work hard for my money and I get results, inside and outside the courtroom. I don't hide behind the pillars of the ivory tower as most of these scoundrels masquerading as "law professors" with their windbag titles (e.g., the "Oliver Wendell Holmes Professor" or the "International Law for Social Justice Professor.") Law professors are parasites who feed off of the student loan money train.

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  6. The pigs will continue feeding at the trough until enough people start contacting their congressman and demand (not ask them to "look into it";if you do that, nothing will get done.") they investigate the schools.

    Don't take the Nando approach and call your senator a worthless pile of elephant waste. It might not be helpful if you put up a goofy picture of your senator on your blog and tell him that his wife is blowing truck drivers. But you have to demand change, people.

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  7. Nando's surefire guaranteed method for not failing the bar: never take it!

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  8. I don't agree with going after this school. It has a good ranking.

    Anyway, here's to the shitbird at 12:04. What's the point of taking the exam when you don't work in law and have no prospects for working at a law firm? (I can hear it now "Go hang a shingle." With what money, asshole.)In case ya didn't know, law firms can look up your pass date. Here's an example for you. If someone graduated in '07 but didn't get licensed until '10, firms might think, "Shit, it took this woman three years to pass this thing."

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  9. I attended the University of Houston Law Center, graduated in 2009 in the top 50 percent of my class, and now work for Reed- Smith in Pittsburgh. Nando, as usual is full of shit. This school offers superb job prospects, and just about everyone I know from my graduating class is pulling in well over 100k. Get your facts straight, Nando, you ignorant SON OF A BITCH. HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY SCHOOL WHEN YOU NEVER WENT THERE! I hope scum like you rots in HELL, and that Professor Olivas sues YOUR ASS! HE is a great man, as well as a fantastic professor, and I refuse to sit here and read this shit. I have already emailed him a link to this site, and have advised him to take the proper legal action against you. FUCK YOU, and the horse you rode in on!

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  10. ^ IP address of this fine individual?

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  11. Obviously the same guy who frequently posts here under different identities. Last week he was a Cooley grad making like $567,000, on partner track. You'd think he'd at least try to adjust his writing style, such as it is.

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  12. To the assmunch at 12:41, do I really have to answer this? Do you really not know the answer? Have you bought into nan-doo-doo's charade so thoroughly you no longer think for yourself? It has nothing to do with hanging a shingle. It's because the majority of law school graduates from 3rd and 4th tier schools get their jobs after they pass the bar. Simple. nan-doo-doo decided not to take the bar before he even graduated (that's when you have to sign up for the bar). Not taking the bar means no legal job. Simple. All the experience he claims to have about looking for a job is a joke; he isn't even basically qualified to talk about that subject (or any of the crap he copy-pastas here). He's a joke and everyone but his little groupies (like you) know it.

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  13. August 21, 2011 1:47 PM:

    Excellent parody of an enraged lemming. I am sure it is parody as no sane individual would get that wrapped-up emotionally over opinions expressed in a scamblog.

    Well done.

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  14. P.S.: Thanks for exposing yet another overpriced trash pit and one of its overpaid, buffoonish, silly-looking "professors." Also well done.

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  15. Just to let you people know, Nando censored one of my posts (deleted it). Beware, Nando will delete your comments if it makes him look like the idiot that he is.

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  16. I hope one day that one of these professors brings a defamation action in court against the scambloggers. If anything, the professor would be exposed as an academic fraud and the lawsuit would be tossed out of court with the echoes of laughter sounding throughout the halls.

    I find it ironic that these professors claim to be the proponents and guardians of the free flow and exchange of ideas, yet, when they are attacked as sham operators, they want to censor and attack opposing views. They are fucking hypocrites and I won't shed a tear for them once law schools start to get rid of tenure.

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  17. Yes, so everyone is making $100,000+ a year after graduating from U of H?

    Tell me, why is it that this very same school generously offered recent graduates the chance to enroll in the LLM program without going through the application process? Is it for some other reason other than giving unemployed graduates a place to hide out for a year?

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  18. "yet, when they are attacked as sham operators, they want to censor and attack opposing views. They are fucking hypocrites and I won't shed a tear for them once law schools start to get rid of tenure."

    Gee, that sounds like the ass-hat, censoring Nando.

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  19. http://www.reedsmith.com/our_people.cfm?widCall1=customWidgets.content_view_1&cit_id=12308

    The dishonest piece of trash who posted the comment at 1:47 pm lied, when he wrote the following drivel:

    “I attended the University of Houston Law Center, graduated in 2009 in the top 50 percent of my class, and now work for Reed- Smith in Pittsburgh. Nando, as usual is full of [crap]. This school offers superb job prospects, and just about everyone I know from my graduating class is pulling in well over 100k. Get your facts straight, Nando, you ignorant SON OF A BITCH.”

    THE ONLY University of Houston grad working at Reed Smith is associate Jacob Thride. However, he is in the Chicago office, not Pittsburgh. On top of this, Thride went to the University of Houston, for undergrad - NOT law school. Hell, he earned his degree from the university in 2002, not 2009. From his firm bio:

    “Legal Education
    2006 J.D., cum laude, University of Wisconsin Law School
    Member, Moot Court
    Member, Latino Law Student Association
    Mathis Memorial Appellate Advocacy Award, 2005
    Samson Fellowship

    Undergraduate Education
    2002 B.A., cum laude, University of Houston”

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=68.46.125.212

    To the foul pile of monkey feces who posted at 3:22 pm and 5:09 pm,

    Does your mother still tuck you in at night, pussy?!?! Yes, I deleted a post that was not on point, and completely filled with lies. Do you think that you are entitled to post whatever garbage you want, cockroach?! If you are offended by that action, then call the ACLU, bitch. Tell me what they advised you to do, Linden Loser. (Keep in mind that I have permitted most of your mental droppings to remain on this site.)

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  20. @1:47:

    Reed Smith does not hypenate its name.

    Also, Reed Smith's online directory lists only 3 Texas admittees as associates: two from Texas and an honors grad from South Texas.

    I have a really hard time believing that Reed Smith hired a non-honors Houston grad for their New York or Pittsburgh offices, especialy when there's 0 Houston grads listed as Texas admittees.

    Next time you want to shoot for parody, try harder.

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  21. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  22. The only one you made look dumb was yourself, 6:06. Well, those with an IQ above 85 also do a good job of making you look like a dumbshit.

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  23. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  24. I too attended the University of Houston starting in Fall 2010, and though I realized my mistake and dropped out, during my 1 year there, I met quite a few 2Ls and 3Ls who were scared shitless about the job prospects after graduation. I also heard about those who graduated in 2009 or 2010 who couldn't find any legal job.

    Though I can't back this up with any stats; from the way people were talking, anyone outside of the top 30% was going to have a difficult time finding a guaranteed legal job and that would allow them to adequately repay loans. Te funny thing is, even when people acknowledged the crappy job prospects, most still believed that they would be part of the small number who found decent jobs.

    Bottom line: yes, its a relatively cheaper shithole with slightly better job prospects than in NY/CA, but that's not really anything to brag about. However, if you're deadset about being a lawyer, can't get in to UT-Austin, and are a TX resident; than you could do worse than UH. Total tuition including books/fees adds up to about $90K, and cost of living is cheap compared to East/West coast.

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  25. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=68.46.125.212

    How are you doing today, ball-licker?!?! You have made 13 visits to this site, so far today. You stopped by here 12 times yesterday, bitch. I guess your nine visits each day on the 18th and 19th were not enough to satisfy your curiosity. We can tell that you are not getting any pussy, loser.

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    Add something of substance, turd. Unless, you prefer to cry and whine “Censorship!!!!”

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  26. So true about the Socratic method.

    Once upon a time, law school was not quite yet a scam in terms of cost and career prospects. As recently as 2007, before the market meltdown and public sector austerity, most law grads eventually found lawyer jobs, though rarely at the "average" salaries advertised by the law schools.

    But law school was always a scam in terms of the quality of professional training. Three years that could be have been used to train competent practice-ready lawyers were, instead, wasted on the brutally inefficient caselaw method of teaching legal doctrine, and on humiliating and pointless classroom head games.

    I remember thinking, on graduation day: I have the right to call myself "Doctor of Laws." Yet I am no more competent to represent a client on his or her criminal trial or bankruptcy or tort claim or contested divorce than the man on the moon. Somehow I doubt that newly-minted Doctors of Medicine have the same feeling about treating patients.

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  27. @ Anon. 8-21, 8:16 AM

    The lamest reply would be "prices are dictated by market forces" but the truth is these motherfuckers think they are worth the near 30 thou a year, and they charge accordingly. I hope you don't go there and that you avoided the lawl skool trap.

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  28. ^If law schools want to see "market forces" in actions, then let's take away student loans from the Government.

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  29. Buddy of mine went there and works at Baker Botts though. But he got hired in 07. boom boom years. Timing is so important in everything esp with careers

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  30. the guy in Linden, NJ has a real oral fixation on his mother's vagina, eh?

    We know she forced you to eat her pussy when you were little. It's okay. She can't hurt you any more. Take a deep breath and be happy in that knowledge.

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  31. Anonymous said...

    I remember thinking, on graduation day: I have the right to call myself "Doctor of Laws." Yet I am no more competent to represent a client on his or her criminal trial or bankruptcy or tort claim or contested divorce than the man on the moon. Somehow I doubt that newly-minted Doctors of Medicine have the same feeling about treating patients.
    ________________________________________________

    No one cares what newly-minted Doctors of Medicine think: they either complete a residency, where they actually learn how to be doctors by shadowing experienced practitioners, or they ain't putting their newly-minted hands on anybody.

    Lawyers, on the other hand, take the Bar exam, and are then free as the wind to mishandle "criminal trials or bankruptcies or tort claims or contested divorces," or all of the above.

    Something wrong with this picture?

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  32. "free as the wind"...and totally incompetent, that is my point. If law school consisted of clinicals and externships, rather than Socratic head games, the law schools would turn out JDs who were practice-ready upon bar passage.

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  33. "It's because the majority of law school graduates from 3rd and 4th tier schools get their jobs after they pass the bar. Simple."

    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

    I know plenty of 2009-2010 grads from Pace, NYLS,and Albany who are still hitting the pavement. One kid who works with my cousin graduated from Albany in 2008 and gave up his search for an attorney position. He now sells insurance along with my cousin (who by the way has an MBA).

    If people who have OTJ experience are taking anywhere between 30%-50% pay cut after being downsized, what makes you think the door is wide open for new graduates? It is freakin' unreal out there.

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  34. to anon at 8:09am; my point was not that passing the bar gets you a job. My point was that if you are going to get a job, you have to pass the bar first.

    Let me make it clearer (you're apparently not so good at the reading comprehension thing): if you're going to graduate from a third or fourth tier school, you're going to have to pass the bar before anyone will hire you. Very few students from those schools get jobs before they have passed the bar. So IF you're going to get a job you have to pass the bar first.

    Yes, lots of people who went to law school are still out of work. Yes, lots have given up looking for legal work. That's not my point. My point was that you need to take the bar to be taken seriously by legal employers. By not taking the bar, nan-doo-doo made sure he would never get a legal job. See? Simple.

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  35. By not taking the bar, nan-doo-doo made sure he would never get a legal job. See? Simple.

    August 22, 2011 9:22 AM

    I am not so sure about that. I think he may have decided first that law looked so unattractive (which for most people, it is) that he was no longer interested. Bar exam or no bar exam, he had already decided against a law job.

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  36. ^Apparently your reading comprehension skills are severly lacking. Go back and re-read what *you* wrote moron:

    "It's because the majority of law school graduates from 3rd and 4th tier schools get their jobs after they pass the bar. Simple."

    To wit, I stressed that several kids I have encountered who graduated from 3T NY law schools such as Pace, NYLS, and Albany have struggled to find work as attorneys after graduating (and yes they passed the bar moron).

    As 12:41 pointed out, employers will look up when you passed the bar. Employers will ask what you have been doing since you passed the bar, where you have been working, etc. Employers don't give a toss if this is a bad economy or not. Employment gaps and gaps in practicing are called red flags in the dimwitted HR world. If you were barraged with resumes, what candidate you would call in for an interview: candidate one who passed the bar in 2009, but works for Target as a manager in the electronics department; or candidate two who passed the bar in 2009, but managed to find a job as an attorney? I can kind of respect where Nando and other recent grads are coming from in not wanting to go through the pain of prepping and taking the bar when there is little chance of employment.

    So you think it’s simple to just find work after graduating from a T3 after passing the bar? Nope-certainly not these days. Guess you must think that this is still the 90's when 3T grads from schools like Pace and NYLS grads had a fighting chance to find jobs after graduating and passing the bar. Contrary to popular belief, most law firms do not hire recent grads as attorneys in waiting (so to speak) unless they received their bar results. (You must receive your information about how law firms work from watching re-runs of LA Law).

    You may want to also do a Google search regarding the law schools I cited as an example in my response post. There are several articles on the net regarding law grads from Pace and NYLS struggling to find jobs as attorneys. One kid from Pace passed the NY *and* CT bar, but works for Radio Shack as an assistant store manager.

    Reading is fundamental jack ass.

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  37. I think that law schools should have to provide their own student loans and collect the money over the life of the loan. There is no accountability in the current system. Law schools are parasites on the student loan system.

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  38. I went top a top 20 law school, and there were many people working at such prominent jobs after graduation as waiter and shoe salesman. I wish they would provide enough training to really compete against seasoned attorneys. Law schools spit you out in debt, with no practical training, let alone any law firm operations training. It really is a shitty way of preparing people to be attorneys.

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  39. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  40. Hey, anon at 9:54am: engrish much? Yeah, I didn't think so.

    Oh, nan-doo-doo, meant to ask, how's that paltry $38K you took in loans doing these days? You talk about everyone who takes the big loans, but you didn't take those, and you decided not to do law long before you graduated (that's why you didn't even try to take the bar). But everything is the law schools' fault. Right.

    Three descriptors for you, nan-doo-doo: hypocritical; self-important; coward. What would your mama think if she saw how you attack other people hiding behind the veil of anonymity? One day she will find out.

    We are Anonymous.
    We are Legion.
    We do not forgive.
    We do not forget.
    Expect us

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  41. August 22, 2011 2:27 PM:

    2:27, assuming you are a licensed attorney in practice presently, and not a "professor of law" or other person employed by a law school, why would you want more competitors, or, for that matter, why would you want anyone encouraging people to go into law to compete against you? What would be your positive stake in that outcome?

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  42. Linden cocksucker,

    A couple of questions for you, you piece of shit.

    1. Where did you go to law school?
    2. What was your ranking?
    3. How much did you take out in loans?

    Can you answer any of those truthfully? (Expect the malignant piece of shit to lash out in 3...2...)

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  43. 'Anonymous said...
    Hey, anon at 9:54am: engrish much? Yeah, I didn't think so.'

    I actually missed that part. Not only is the retard from Linden, New Jersey an asshole, he is a racist too. Yeah. He must have lots of friends. That's why he wastes so much time on scamblogs.

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  44. Nan-Doo-Doo - the "engrish much" comment was not me. Maybe you should verify that on your ISP lookup. Obviously, there is more than one person who believes you have anger management problems. By the way, I think 2:27 laid it out quite nicely:

    "Three descriptors for you, nan-doo-doo: hypocritical; self-important; coward." I would add "in need of anger management therapy" to the above sentence.

    And no, I will not be telling you where I went to law school or any additional information. Once again, that post was not mine ... idiot. 4;02 also needs to get his facts straight. The post was not mine.

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  45. I didn't finish law school but from what I've read online and heard from friends who finished before me:

    The legal job market has been shit for a very long time. Shitlaw hiring couldn't make a dent in the masses of students graduating from the adult daycare center AKA law school. The only thing that propped these poor losers up was document review.

    Up until about 2008 doc review was easy to find and you could make decent money. Now with outsourcing, thanks to the blessing of the American Butthole Assheads, doc review is gone unless you are fluent in Tolkien Elvish or some other obscure language.

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  46. ^ I agree. Without doc review, the masses would be in a world of hurt, myself included. It's only going to get worse going forward re: doc review, IMO.

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  47. Another sign that the job market is really, really bad - I work in immigration (a noted shitlaw area). In the past year, I have seen graduates from Harvard and University of Chicago representing people in basic adjustment of status / naturalization cases. Not long ago, you would never see anyone from the top echelon of schools handling low end immigration cases.

    If T-8 graduates are moving into shitlaw, what the hell kind of jobs will be left for the people who graduate from TT-TTTT commodes? Probably someday soon doc review will be out of reach for anyone outside the first tier.

    If anyone reading this blog just started 1L at a shit law school this month, do the smart thing and go to the registrars office and see if you can withrdraw from school and get your money back. Don't think that things will work out because you are special. Do some research and try to figure out how much it costs to pay back 150k to 200k in loans. Do not tell yourself that you will be the lucky one who gets the 160k biglaw job. You won't. There is no shame in getting out before you get too far in.

    Come to think of it, Nando, maybe a requiem to the class of 2014 would make a good next posting for you to do.

    ReplyDelete
  48. The Restatement of the Rule:

    UNLESS one is going to be going into the family firm, is independently wealthy/properly connected, or perhaps a hot chick who will be, uh, "mentored", drop the hell out of your TTT or TTTT if your First Year grades don't put you in the top 10% of the class. Otherwise, prepare to solo.

    That is all.

    ReplyDelete
  49. I would bet my last dollar that the jack ass who posted at 2:27 is the anal vapor moron.

    Seriously, what gives? If you think attending law school (regardless of rank) is a good idea to do during the economy, then go for it. Why are you wasting time posting here then?









    ;27

    ReplyDelete
  50. Following up on what 8:19 PM said, remember also, you have a 90% chance to not be in the top 10%. For the innumerate, this is what are called bad odds. This would be something like playing blackjack where only the dealer is dealt the facecards and aces. Except that when you gamble once you run out of money the game ends for you. When you lose at law school, the house still wants its money for the next decade or four.

    Here's an example from my own experience about student loans: I went to law school from 2001 until 2004. I took out $49,700 in loans from one of the big private loan providers, along with 60k in federal loans. I did not find employment that paid well until 2009. I have been paying my $49,700 back since I graduated in 2004. Guess what I have that $49,700 paid down to? Correct if you guessed $49,100!

    See, kids, there are these things called unsubsidized loans that you have to take out to finance a major educational undertaking like law school or expensive undergrad. Unsubsidized means that the interest begins accumulating as soon as the loan is disbursed. So that $15,000 you borrow now might cost you 18 or 19 thousand by the time you graduate.

    The loan companies are generous enough to allow you to make smaller interest-only payments when you first graduate so you can get by. What this means is every month when you pay your loan debt, you don't pay enough to bring the interest down. The interest you owe keeps going up. You are paying money and digging yourself deeper into a hole all at the same time.

    If you are just starting law school and are sitting there awed by Hadley v. Baxendale, or are trying to remember the elements of an intentional tort, but don't really know why you are in law school, or what you are going to do with your law degree, I will give some simple advice. First thing tomorrow, go return your books to the bookstore for a refund and drop the hell out. You will not regret it.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I just discovered this blog and find it very interesting. I am a MD but both my siblings are JD's (one has practiced for several years on his own and has done very well and the other graduated more recently with a great job in patent law). I feel so bad and get so angry at the way the legal educational system does nothing and feels no obligation to ensure gainful employment of those entering the noble pursuit of obtaining a JD. I hope that something will be done soon and I hope the message of this website (BEWARE if you are not at a top law school) will reach those who need to hear it most.
    These government loans now have huge interest rates and I get scared to death about my debt despite entering a surgical specialty that provides me with job offers worth hundreds of thousands of dollars a year (after many painful years of residency). I'm glad that medical schools have decided to keep their numbers down and thus guarantee a gainful employment to all who meet their passing criteria. I hope law schools will follow suit and protect those trying to become talented lawyers instead of selling everyone some "smoke and mirrors" snakeoil scheme that comes back to hurt so many aspiring lawyers but makes the law schools richer and richer. It seems to me that much of the system is unethical and with impure motives (e.g. the "employment rate" BS statistic they all use). Best of luck to everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  52. These dumb 1Ls are even more fucked now that Obama took away the subsidized interest while in school benefit. What does that mean for the mathematically challenged 1L? It means that if you borrow $30K a year for 3 years, by the time you graduate from law school, you will have accumulated about $36K in interest by the time you do the "all i got for 3 years and $130K was this piece of paper saying I am a Juris Doctor" perp walk. Hope you enjoy being fascinated by Regina v. Dudley because it will not come in handy when you hit the pavement scrounging in the world of solo shitlaw.

    ReplyDelete
  53. 'I would bet my last dollar that the jack ass who posted at 2:27 is the anal vapor moron."

    No, that was NOT the anal vapor guy. Obviously, more than one individual on this blog thinks Nan-Doo-Doo is a complete jackass with anger management issues. And I'll take your last dollar BTW.

    ReplyDelete
  54. To the pathetic piece of trash who posted on August 21, 2011 at 6:20 pm,

    I stumbled upon this apt definition recently:

    Definition of a troll: one who posts inflammatory lies, and then gets defensive when called out on them.

    Frankly, I don't know why anyone cares where you went to law school. You have clearly never set foot in a law school, cockroach. Lawyers typically don't get emotional, when someone talks about "legal education" in negative terms. (Many successful attorneys will admit that law school does not adequately prepare students for the practice of law.)

    Before I ban you from this site, here is an excerpt from "The Chosen." It was written by Chaim Potok, American Jewish author and rabbi:

    "Human beings do not live forever, Reuven. We live less than the time it takes to blink an eye, if we measure our lives against eternity. So it may be asked what value is there to a human life. There is so much pain in the world. What does it mean to have to suffer so much if our lives are nothing more than the blink of an eye? . . .I learned a long time ago, Reuven, that a blink of an eye in itself is nothing. But the eye that blinks, that is something. A span of life is nothing. But the man who lives the span, he is something. He can fill that tiny span with meaning, so its quality is immeasurable though its quantity may be insignificant."

    Develop some integrity, cockroach. As far as I can tell, we have one mortal life. Do you want to waste your life, as a brainless, ball-less shill for the morally-bankrupt and thoroughly corrupt law school industry?!Is that really how you want to spend your existence, bitch?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  55. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=68.44.42.136

    Time Visitor Session

    Aug 23 2011 5:53am 68.44.42.136 6 actions 6m 5s
    Aug 22 2011 7:11pm 68.46.125.212 2 actions 1m 4s
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    Aug 22 2011 4:27am 68.46.125.212 2 actions 6m 5s

    By the way, the pathetic bitch who posted at 5:59 am today is the same cockroach who commented last night at 6:20 pm. He is also the same loser who kept posting about “anal vapors.” I banned IP address 68.46.125.212 last night. Dumbass did not let that deter him, as he visited this site from IP 68.44.42.136 instead. Now, that IP has been blocked from this blog. (I can block an entire IP range, if I want.) I have re-directed him to some websites that he will thoroughly enjoy.

    When he visits from another IP, somewhere in Linden - which he will, since he is an addict - then I will block that address as well. But he is a successful attorney with six years’ experience, right?!?!

    Linden Cockroach said:

    “No, that was NOT the anal vapor guy. Obviously, more than one individual on this blog thinks Nan-Doo-Doo is a complete jackass with anger management issues. And I'll take your last dollar BTW.

    August 23, 2011 5:59 am.”

    http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/08/profiles-in-academic-myopia-michael.html#comments

    Scroll down to my comment, posted on August 20, 2011 at 7:30 pm.

    “http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=68.46.140.162

    The miserable piece of trash from Linden, NJ is responsible for the "anal vapors" remarks. I guess he is still upset because his mother washes the skid marks off his tighty whiteys. Unless, of course, the cockroach is still wearing Superman underwear.”

    Now, we can discuss the merits of American “legal education,” as adults.

    ReplyDelete
  56. This blog is always the same on the comments.

    --First ten comments are people saying everyone graduating from law school has no shot and will be a Taco Bell manager.
    --Someone comes in and tries to refute this, saying he is working in a large law firm after graduating from a TTT.
    --Nando calls above person a vile piece of trash, posts a long list of IP addresses.
    --Painter drops by with some incoherent ramblings and sucks up to Nando

    Rinse and repeat...

    ReplyDelete
  57. Nando, you have to do a post on the law professors against paul campos.

    http://volokh.com/2011/08/22/a-few-thoughts-on-lawprof-and-law-school-scam-blogs/

    In the comments, a law professor threatens to leave academia and take a higher-paying job if his professor salary is cut. Oh no! what will law students do without his canned lectures on Pierson v. Post? I'm sure Skadden is dying to hire a blowhard professor who has not practiced in 15 years.

    ReplyDelete
  58. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Hey 6:46. You are the biggest piece of shit to ever visit this site. Keep sucking off your dad and his friends. I'm sure they like having you around. And you like having them cum in your mouth. See? Everyone goes away happy.

    ReplyDelete
  60. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Time Visitor Session
    Aug 23 2011 7:07pm 68.44.42.136 6 actions 2m 22s
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    Aug 23 2011 7:59am 68.44.42.136 1 action 10s
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    Aug 23 2011 7:38am 68.44.42.136 6 actions 3m 5s
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    Aug 23 2011 5:53am 68.44.42.136 6 actions 6m 5s
    Aug 22 2011 7:11pm 68.46.125.212 2 actions 1m 4s
    Aug 22 2011 6:37pm 68.46.125.212 6 actions 2m 23s
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    Aug 20 2011 7:03pm 68.46.140.162 6 actions 6m 14s
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    Does anyone think that this loser has a girlfriend?!?!

    ReplyDelete
  62. Yeah, I get the same people visiting my blog: the anal vapor guy, and LInden NJ as well.

    Unlike Nando, I moderate my comments, and if they are really nasty, and redundant, I just don't publish them now.

    But Re: Legal Education: Someone above remarked that it is critical to pass the bar if one is from a t4 school.

    As everyone knows, I did not pass the bar. Found it impossible.

    As the commenter stated, I was out of the legal job market (including paralegal since no one wanted me there either)

    And, I was out of the non-legal "Corporate" job market with the non-elite JD on my resume.

    Honest to God, I sent so many resumes out, and with no success.

    ReplyDelete
  63. 'Does anyone think that this loser has a girlfriend?!?!'

    If he is visiting the blog that often, he obviously doesn't have a job.

    ReplyDelete
  64. @JDP: regardless if people pass the bar graduating from a 3T or 4T, if there are few jobs out there and the new grad does not have connections, 3T's and 4T's will now find themselves competing against some 2T and even 1T grads for the same positions. (Apparently the Linden, NJ Vapor Jack Ass could not comprehend that when I replied to the troll the other day.)

    I know plenty of legal, non-attorney, professionals who have also been hit very hard by the economy, and the over production of law grads. While a paralegal may not have the same insane student loan debt as a law grad has, it is still very difficult to find a job outside of law once you spent more than three years in the legal field. HR and most job recruiters cannot simply comprehend that skills learned in law can be transferable to other professions. On top of that, at one time paralegals could depend on honing in on their talent and years of experience in finding better paying jobs after putting their dues in. That's no longer the case. I know a few paralegals that were let go of their big law jobs during the 2008-2009 Big Law Bloodletting. Those who were able to find new jobs had to take a 30% to 50% cut in their salary (myself included). I was downsized in 2009, and I have been fortunate to find another senior paralegal position late last year. However, I am making the same salary I earned ten years ago. At least in 2001, I was able to at least stretch my dollar a bit and live pretty comfortable. I am just barely making my ends meet now.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Where is the anal vapor guy? It's 3:30 where I'm at. He should've posted 15 bullshit comments by now.

    ReplyDelete
  66. @8:47

    I tried to dramatize the whole experience of searching for work in the regular, "Monster.com" if you will, job market, with no success, here:

    http://esquirepainting.blogspot.com/2011/01/but-nobody-will-hire-me-phone.html

    I re-refer you to it, since I have piled up a bunch of posts by now, and feel that I need to keep on reposting, since my older posts get buried, etc.

    But yes, it was really frustrating to have a JD, and to find out I was a leper of sorts, in the eyes of the larger job market.

    ReplyDelete
  67. I am an entering 1L at a respected tier 2 who has orientation this week. Anyway, although I have always wanted to be a lawyer, I told my family that I would not attend law school if I had to take out loans. I am already 40 grand in debt, and after reading many articles and blogs such as this one on the horrendous state of the legal field, I decided that I was not going to commit financial suicide for the shot at becoming a lawyer. I am a realist, and thus acknowledge that there is a good chance that even with a JD, I will never practice law. I do however, want to be a lawyer, but I am not willing to go into debt 200 grad for the "opportunity." My grandmother is very well off, and is completely funding my law school expenses(including living costs). Anyway, last night I was at an orientation party and while talking to other incoming 1Ls, I remarked that it is funny how people who aren't in the legal field believe that all lawyers are rich, when in reality, most aren't. Everyone went silent for at least ten seconds, until one kid remarked, "well, I'm going to be rich." It's funny how ignorant most of these kids are. I highly doubt that many of these kids did much research on the state of the legal field before making the largest financial decision of their lives thus far.

    ReplyDelete
  68. ^ Agree. Prospective law students and current law students are definitively not "sophisticated consumers;" therefore, no student loans should be extended to them.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Law school is insanely expensive, and I can't see how they justify charging so much. Tuition should be no more than 15 grand, and those charging 15 grand should be ranked no lower than the t14.

    ReplyDelete
  70. ^^^

    I don't know.

    But as a person I met once, who had a job with the Dept. of Defense....said:

    "I used to come home every night, and wash the blood of the American Taxpayer off my hands."

    Is the Law School Phenom. so far off the mark when taxpayer Student Loan dollars keep rolling in, with no end in sight?

    Why wouldn't the schools continue to raise the rent?

    So happy they can hardly count.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Good call on this one. University of Houston Law Center is shittier than shit. My firm won't even look at graduates of this school.

    ReplyDelete
  72. i live in houston and this was my first choice school. i planned on living at home with the parents to save on costs. i wanted to make sure that i got in by any means necessary, so I applied to the part time program bc my lsat was a couple of points outside of range for the full time. I figured i would transfer into the full time, as you are able to on a "space available basis" after the 1st year.

    initially, I was wait listed and i didn't get admitted to the part time prgm until the first week of august. no financial aid. after thinking for a few days i emailed them saying i wouldn't be attending. i couldn't bare the thought of the possibility of not having the grades or them not having the space for me to transfer to part time- with me ending up paying for 4 years instead of 3 with no financial aid. (part time is only $2,000 less than full time).

    i figured i would just get a whatever/eff off response and they would just move to the next person on the wait list. but one of the deans personally contacted me and asked why i was not attending. after telling her why, she offered me a seat in the full time class and a scholarship for $5,000/ year with a gpa requirement. i accepted thinking wow what an opportunity! then after i calculated the numbers, including projected interest on the loans i already have and projected increases in tuition (its now $29,000 something- a few bucks shy of $30,000) i decided it was still way too much debt for the salary/ job prospects.

    i knew about these scam blogs but i honestly just thought they were run by bitter former students who just didn't do what they needed to do while they had the chance to get where they wanted to be. like so many others i thought i would be the one to excel above the rest of my classmates. with the numbers staring dead at me, i realized i would be playing russian roulette with my future if i went. aside from the numbers, i couldn't get over the fact that i went from barely being admitted to the part time program w/ no aid, to being welcomed into full time with scholarship money. it occurred to me they were desperate to fill seats--- at any cost! who knows, maybe they had an unexpected number of declines at the last minute. perhaps a wave of panic/ clarity came over some other people as well.

    i feel great about my decision not to attend. i feel like i dodged a serious bullet and i thank goodness that i snapped out of feeling special and made a mature, well informed decision based in reality. my dad, on the other hand, could not seem to do the same thing. he's so lost in memories of straight As and honor roll that he can't seem to fathom that i won't be at the top of my class and make partner by 35. i guess i feel a little flattered that he thinks so highly of me, but flattery does not pay the bills.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Just FYI, UH offered a $5K grant to *all* matriculated law students entering in fall 2012 (up for $2,500 originally). They also lowered the size of this year's inbound class from 280 to 240 in order to maintain their averages for LSAT and GPA, which is certainly costing them a pretty penny. Like everyone else, they realize that law school applications have dropped about 25% in the past two years (though admittedly from record highs).

    I just finished my first semester at UH Law (go ahead, look up my IP if you want - should be at the university) and think this blog must be for crybabies and unemployable couch-potatoes. I'm generally quite satisfied with both my education thus far and the opportunities in general afforded by going to law school in the country's fourth-largest city. I don't know who the fuck all the naysayers who keep spouting this "I went to a top-20 law school and am still stuck working at Starbucks three years later" - gee, maybe it's because you're an unlikable asshole who doesn't perform well in a team environment? Or maybe because you can't write for shit? (which is BY FAR the most important skill an in-bound associate needs - outside of BigLaw firms, it's more important than either alma mater or GPA)

    I picked UHLC over UT (yes, I got into both, and no, I don't give a flying fuck if U.S. News ranks the latter much higher; also, no, UH didn't offer me any special grants or scholarships) specifically because I plan to work in Health Law, and U of H is top-five ranked nationally there. I have zero worries of securing employment even this early in the game, and I already have several job prospects lined up for my upcoming 1L summer. (It almost certainly helps that I picked a sub-area of law with definite growth potential. Those of you who thought you'd work on Wall Street or whatever may understandably be shit out of luck.) Maybe if some of you bitter, unemployed douches would get off your collective asses and stop your incessant whining for a bit, you might find some opportunities open for yourselves as well. It might also help if you upped the maturity level beyond that of 19-year-old frat boys; that pic of the unflushed shitter above really kinda says it all.

    If you went to New York Law School (not to be confused with NYU Law) or one of those law degree farms, you have a bona fide reason to be pissed if you're unemployed. Otherwise, you have no one to blame but yourselves and your shitty, woe-is-me attitudes.

    ReplyDelete
  74. One more thing: the reason in-state law schools -- not just in Texas, but throughout the country -- are crazy-expensive nowadays has everything to do with the state legislature. Did you know it once cost $50 per credit hour to attend UT undergrad?? Hard to believe, but that was before Perry and all the Republicans in the Lege decided to stop "subsidizing" higher education. Following Ayn Rand-ian philosophy to a T, they decided the state's taxpayers were better off if our best and brightest were forced to rack up six figures of student-loan debt just to get through undergrad, let alone any professional program. Such is one of the many costs of living in a "pro-business" state where big oil companies like ExxonMobil get multi-billion dollar state tax credits for drilling in the Gulf, and education perennially gets the short end of the stick (never mind college education - we're the richest state in the country, but our public schools rank 46th overall - on par with Mississippi and West Virginia!).

    ReplyDelete
  75. I received my JD at UH about a decade ago. I'd say this article is pretty much accurate. The vast majority of my classmates who went on to make lots of money were from wealthy, well connected families. The few of us who didn't have those connections are mostly working and either not really using our degrees or not using them to make enough money to justify our second mortgage. Err, I mean our student loan debt. I thought things were pretty shitty at UH but since then I've had the chance to sit it on classes and lectures at other law schools and they are no better. I wish I'd went to Baylor. They were working on a practical course guideline that was supposed to emphasize real world lawyering. It took me a few years to get on my feet, working as litigation support and essential being a bitch for massive litigation firms before I knew which way was up. I've done public service law for 7 years now and I currently have a fantastic job that pays total shit working for the state, but I work from home and only have a handful of hearings a week and that let's me pay my bills and stay home with my beautiful baby girl. My wife found a more lucrative job with her degree from a bottom tier law school and she is now an expert in her field, highly sought after, and well compensated, which is a damned good thing because someone has to put food on the table. My brother is a high school grad with a commercial drivers license and he makes more hauling equipment for the drilling industry than I do as an administrative law judge working for the state. And he has no student debt. How bout that?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Wow. Sticker shock. I finished UH law center in 2002 with an 18,000 loan. This included 1k a semester of scholarship money. My monthly loan cost is $202. Back then we were tied with SMU for 50 -- making it a Tier I school. What happened? There is no way on earth I would pay $90K for a law degree in this depressed market from UH. I do have a good, cushy job now after 12 years making around 80k a year plus benefits. And I am glad I went to law school, but good grief for the current rates, go to med school or get an advanced nursing degree. Of course that's also expensive, but at least you are employable. Texas does not support education, and this is a casualty. No income tax, just stick it to the students.

    ReplyDelete

 
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