Tuesday, August 2, 2011

Third Tier University of Baltimore School of Law Flushes Dean Phillip Closius Down the Drain

Law School Tuition Bubble pointed out that Closius was recently ousted by the 117th best law school in the land:

“Dean Phillip Closius sent an e-mail today reporting that the university’s president asked for his resignation on Thursday and it’s effective now. Why? Because Dean Closius told the ABA that the university was looting the law school, and the ABA requested an explanation. He writes:

For the most recent academic year (AY 10-11), our tuition increase generated $1,455,650 in additional revenue. Of that amount, the School of Law budget increased by only $80,774 [!]. I do not know of any law school in the country receiving such a small percentage of its generated tuition revenue. A recent article in The New York Times noted that a 25-30% revenue retention by a university was considered high by national standards. As of academic year 2010-11, the University retained approximately 45% [!] of the revenue generated by law tuition, fees and state subsidy. Using any reasonable calculation of the direct and indirect University costs, the University was still diverting millions of dollars in law school revenue to non-law University functions.”

His Philosophy on Gaming the Rankings:


“When I was a candidate for this job,” said Phillip J. Closius, the dean of the University of Baltimore School of Law, “I said ‘I can talk for 10 minutes about the fallacies of the U.S. News rankings,’ but nobody wants to hear about fallacies. There are millions of dollars riding on students’ decisions about where to go to law school, and that creates real institutional pressures.” [Emphasis mine]


"Mr. Closius came from the University of Toledo College of Law, where he lifted the school to No. 83 from No. 140, he said. Among his strategies: shifting about 40 students with lower LSAT scores into the part-time program. Because part-time students didn’t then count in the U.S. News survey — the rules have since been changed — Toledo’s bar passage rate rose, which helped its ranking.

“You can call it massaging the data if you want, but I never saw it that way,” he says. Weaker students wound up with lighter course loads, which meant that fewer of them flunked out. In his estimation, a dean who pays attention to the U.S. News rankings isn’t gaming the system; he’s making the school better.

Unfortunately, he says, not all schools play fair.”
[Emphasis mine]


By the way, Closius’s old school, i.e. the University of Toledo, is no longer ranked 83rd. In fact, it is now in the fourth tier. I guess Phillip does not care much about long-term improvement. Also, how does manipulating figures make the school better?!?!


“Reducing the size of the entering class will also help us avoid the need for increased academic attrition rates at the end of the first year. If a school keeps placing additional students in academic jeopardy, the admissions office is usually required to admit larger classes in the succeeding year. Unfortunately, in the market of the 1990s, more students usually meant less qualified students. This in turn necessitated higher attrition. We hope that our downsizing will help us avoid this downfall.” [Emphasis mine]

This law review article is entitled “The Incredible Shrinking Law School,” 31 U. Tol. L. Rev. 581, 582 (2000). On page 585 Closius concludes: “Downsizing may not be appropriate for every school.”

What a beacon of integrity, huh?!?! It is CLEAR that this man is merely looking to help his school’s reputation.


In a November 21, 2010 interview with The Daily Record, Closius said:

"Law school is a professional school. It's not like you're going to become an English major because you've always wanted to read 'Beowulf.' At the end of the day, people come to law school because they want jobs," he says. "If we can't get people where they want to go, we've failed to a certain extent." [Emphasis mine]

He continued:

"For good or bad, this is a rankings culture. I can't fight that aspect. It's just part of the deal," he says. "You cannot, in the 21st century, be a dean of a law school and not pay attention to these rankings. It's just too important."

I suppose that Phillip Closius, a highly-educated man with degrees from Notre Dame and Columbia, feels that he must go along with this idiotic ranking system.


"If you come to UB, the bulk of students are going to have to be able to deal with a $90,000 debt service on a $65,000-a-year salary," he said. "That's not easy."

The school, incidentally, has raised tuition 77 percent in the last 7 years.

"The only thing that justifies it is, so is everyone else in the law school world," Closius said.”
[Emphasis mine]

Yes, that is a great rationale for your conduct, Phillip!


“The building project has a total budget of $107 million, of which $92 million will be contributed by the State of Maryland. The School of Law was responsible for raising the remaining $15 million in private funds and met that goal in March, 2010, thanks in large part to a generous $10 million donation from Peter Angelos, LL.B. ’61.”

Apparently, the sewage pit did not feel that applying some of these donations to fund scholarships would be a wise investment. At least, the school can still attract large donors - including the taxpayers . Although I’m not sure how this is going to help recent third tier commode JDs find employment.


“Schools that have "gamed" the rankings system in the past are unapologetic. The article offers the example of Phillip Closius, dean of University of Baltimore Law School, which elevated its rank to 125 from 170 by cutting the number of full-time students and adding more part-timers. Says Closius:

U.S. News is not a moral code, it's a set of seriously flawed rules of a magazine, and I follow the rules...without hiding anything.

Just as a Closius' ability to improve rankings made him a hero, deans who fail to take rankings seriously may find themselves the goat.”
[Emphasis mine]


“One of the top beneficiaries of the current U.S. News criteria is Phillip Closius, former dean of the University of Toledo's law school. He led the school's rise from the list's fourth tier to its second tier within a few years. After he took the helm of the University of Baltimore law school last year, that school also quickly climbed the rankings, to 125 this year from 170 last year, he says. (Schools in the third and fourth tiers aren't publicly ranked -- instead they are grouped together -- but deans can find out where they placed.)

Mr. Closius's winning strategy in both places: Cut the number of full-time students accepted into the program to boost the median LSAT scores and GPAs, which together account for more than 20% of a school's ranking. In their place, the schools add more part-time students, who can transfer to full-time the second year.

Mr. Closius says having some students complete fewer classes at first gives them a better chance of academic success. He says he also made other changes that improved the school's ranking, including keeping better track of graduates' employment status after graduation. The moves benefit students, he says: At Toledo, more large law firms began interviewing students after the school's ranking climbed, and at Baltimore, he recently got multimillion-dollar grants and donations for a new building.”
[Emphasis mine]

Conclusion: In the final analysis, Phillip Closius was unapologetic when it came to gaming the rankings system. After all, everyone else does it. Which makes such disgusting conduct okay, right, Phillip?!?! He was upset because he felt that the University of Baltimore was taking too large of a cut out of his law school’s tuition increases, i.e. loot. Don’t mistake his complaints as a man standing on principle. Why don’t you head to the 135th ranked private toilet known as New York Law $chool?! They are in need of a new dean. Plus, you will not need to split your gains with university personnel. Plus, if you are somehow able to take this trash pit into the second tier, people will see you as a savior. (Plus, I will then be able to look up your big-ass salary, from the dung heap’s IRS Form 990.)


  1. Most people have lauded Closius's "brave" stand against his university president.

    Nando, I'm glad you see things the right way. Closius is simply another money-grubbing butthole who is upset that his pimp is taking his ill-gotten gains.

    Have you seen the movie Casino? That pretty much sums it up.

  2. The law school thief is mad at the university thief. Law students come to aid of the law school thief because he's not as bad as the university thief. I see multiple TV networks bidding on this one.

  3. I posted that on JDU turde my friend.

    Skimming the skim. And the small-time punk education gangster doesn't like it.. Why am I not surprised?

  4. Like the initial poster, when I read the news story about this guy, I felt that he was to be commended for his actions. But, as Nando has pointed out, this guy is really just the lesser of the dirt bags. I wonder what he would have done if all the "loot" had been going to the law school instead of the general university fund. My guess is he would just look the other way. As long as he's gettin' his money, everything's okay.

  5. @6:36, exactly. He wouldn't give a shit if he could increase his or his friends' salaries at the law school.

  6. Oh shut up.

    The World Traveling Law Student

  7. You know what I find most ironic? Many of these deans and professors of these colleges and universities would be the first to point the finger and encourage people to grab a pitchfork against Wall Street and CEO's. These guys are not any better than CEO's, in fact worse. At least a CEO will openly admit that its sole purpose is to make a profit.

  8. I think we should just IGNORE whatever World Traveling Dipshit Top 18% from WNEC shithole says in the future. It's obvious that he has nothing of any value to the discussion and just wants to get everyone riled up.

  9. I don't get how this is a bad thing. It's a business. This is a capitalist economy. He was making a business decision. We go to school as part of getting ourselves into business. What the heck is wrong with you people?

    To survive, you have to do well. If you don't, you will fail. That's how it is, and you are all too sore to realize that. I have never seen or heard such whining in my life.

    Honestly, as I read that post above I was like "what is Nando's point? The dean seemed to do a good job."

    I still don't understand your point. You all want to change something you will never have any power to change, and what you want to turn it into would NEVER work.

    There are more people and more want to go to law school. Those people think the rankings matter, and so do employers. What are you going to do about it? Make people want to stay in their mediocre jobs that would rather go to law school? And you call me the idiot? Wow.

  10. When I first read about Phil Closius's whistle blowing after the fact story, I saw straight through the pseudo-unsung hero portrayal. His conduct reminds me of a movie where the plot involved a band of thieves pulling off a heist. After the heist, one of the thieves wanted to refuse paying off the guy who gave the thieves the map of the armored truck's route. His attitude was: "We did all the heavy lifting, why should we give that fuck anything, especially since he wasn't sticking his neck out, sitting cool in his office while taking no risk."

    There is no doubt that Closius kept quiet about the rising tuition so long as it benefited him and his cronies. Once the school president asked for a bigger cut, he whined like a street level mobster who resents giving a cut of his shakedown money to his capo. Make no mistake, Closius is not a hero and he should not be applauded for "exposing" the financial arrangement between UB and the law school. He was fired, and his "expose" was a resentful last salvo. I doubt Closius cares about his law students or the folks who recently graduated and cannot find the fabled jobs that were created on the glossy brochures published by the admissions' office.

    Since I am using mob examples, Closius reminds me of turncoat snitch Sammy "the Bull" Gravano. Sammy was a hitman who turned witness for the prosecution against John Gotti. Sammy was still a murderer but the government gave him a pass and put him in protective custody because they were obssessed with nailing Gotti. Make no mistake, Closius has no clean hands in this matter.

  11. If these professors and deans of these law schools can somehow guarantee that its graduates can find work as attorneys (not as paralegals, or in lit support), I don't think most people would have a problem with the cost of law school tuition being so high if the jobs and need for more new attorneys is there. However you fail to understand that there are simply way too many law schools in the US now, and many of these law schools for years have skewed their stats dishonestly. Instead of doing the honorable thing in placing the low performers on probation, or asking them to leave, they were switched out to P/T program, therefore dishonestly skewing the stats of the school. This dean didn't magically bring up the bar; he just transferred the low performers elsewhere. Look at this way, if say a manufacturing company was under investigation and was not complying with OSHA regulations, and instead of providing full access to OSHA of its plant/manufacturing site, it simply does not allow regulators to view a back room where employees are prone to sustaining injuries. What Closius did with the school’s part time program is the same thing: selective information provided to the public.

    Look if you want to go ahead and go to law school, go right ahead. No one here is stopping you and from the looks of your blog, no one is dropping by to respond to you and talk you out of attending law school. I have no idea why you even bother showing up here. You fail to provide valid points justifying school's outrageous costs for tuition, defend the way student loans are structured, *and* provide a solid argument for the need for nearly 200 accredited law schools to remain open. If you are a paid to champion your law school to convince others not to worry, just be happy, you are really not doing a very good job of it.


  12. You guys are all correct here: this is a story where a thief betrays another thief. Worse of it all is that all this thievery is sponsored by the federal government in the form of student loans.

  13. " And you call me the idiot? Wow.

    August 2, 2011 8:55 AM"

    I've scrolled up in this post, and I cannot find anyone calling anyone else an idiot.

    What have I missed? Anyone else not seeing this?

  14. 806 AM:

    Let me go ahead and call you an idiot. Because you are. What's your argument? Oh yes, the tired tried and true "do well (work hard)" straw.

    Sorry idiot. America isn't a meritocracy and it isn't about working hard. There's clearly something wrong with a business that puts 98% of its customers into soul/life crushing debt, induces them by fraud, knowingly publishes misleading employment and salary statistics, and knowingly and willfully does all of the above with the objective of turning a massive profit.

    The schools know that there is no real legal demand. Demand for JD's outside of the T14, now T10, perhaps T6 one day, has been negative for years.

    We demand an end to the fraud, plainly and simply. If that means controls which result in accurate statistics, employment and salary information, having accreditation tied to the above and Bar passage, shuttering schools which don't measure up, perhaps 90% of all existing law schools, SO BE IT.

    Legal education fails 95%++ of its students. The only reason it exists in its present form today is the free money from the government, also participating and benefiting from the Scam.

    Yeah, you're an idiot. More like a low-grade Moron, if that. Clueless fuck.

  15. August 2 11:52 AM. I was not called an idiot per se today. However, in the past I have been. I, a law student who has traveled to 4 continents in the last few years, is often ridiculed and harassed on this forum for not agreeing with the drivel that is posted on these blogs, ESPECIALLY this one. Nando has made some stupid entries in the past, but this one is probably the worst. I spoke with my wife this morning the bath about how Nando and most of the followers of this blog cannot for the life of them understand simple economic concepts. I realize this is probably because I majored in Economics at a recognized national university, however, there is no excuse.

    You all claim to understand so much yet get it so wrong. I try to explain over and over about supply and demand, about how many people want to go to law school, and that even with 200 schools there are more people wanting to go. I agree that many are going for money when they should be going to law school for a career path that they want to pursue. I also agree people should not be going to law school because the economy is in a bad position at the moment. However, there are many people who want to be a lawyer, a career that has been celebrated since the dawn of time.

    Two hundred schools is a lot, yes. But there are thousands more who apply every year. The schools all exist for status and monetary purposes. Some claim to be 'not for profit' but all the people at these schools are paid. It is a business like anything else. So, let me ask you, why should they not operate like one?

    I will continue to be molested by angry drop outs and people who sucked at their law school career on here. People who didn't try hard enough or just realized it was too hard too late (like Nando, who won't post his GPA and freely admits he didn't take the bar just because he didn't have a job lined up). I have no sympathy for these kind, however, at the same time, I realize that law school was a smart choice for me and for MANY people who try very hard and get amazing grades and wanted it bad enough. You can't even begin to tell me that it was a bad idea for those people and have some credibility.

    I agree that it was a bad idea for the scam bloggers to go to law school. They should have never went on after undergrad. They didn't have the drive to succeed in the post-graduate world.

    What the scamblogs represent to me - failure pseudo-justified.

    The World Traveling Law Student

  16. To the 11:52 am poster. The Scambloggers are trying to SAVE undergrads. So I'm glad you are livin' the life you wanted. However, there are tons of undergrads applying to law school who simply will never find financial security unless someone warns them about law school.

    Besides my neighborhood is chock full of struggling 1st tier grads: http://clarendon.patch.com/articles/life-after-law-young-lawyers-look-outside-legal-profession-to-meet-their-needs

  17. "What the scamblogs represent to me - failure pseudo-justified.

    The World Traveling Law Student

    August 2, 2011 1:16 PM"

    OK, kid, you seem really wrapped up in this thing. Why so much concern over what other people think? Also, you seem to be saying that a WHOLE lot of people lack drive. Believe me, kid, I know solos struggling out there who have drive up-the-ass and are still struggling.

    Do what you wanna do, but it seems YOU'RE the one doing the insulting and wholesale categorizing. There's a whole lot of people who busted their ass in law and to get licensed who can't wait to get the fuck out. They lack drive?

    Who are you to judge people who HAVE practiced law?

  18. "I spoke with my wife this morning the bath about how Nando and most of the followers of this blog cannot for the life of them understand simple economic concepts. August 2, 2011 1:16 PM"

    WTLS: you talk to the WIFE about this blog in the bathroom? Kid, you really got an obsession. Oy!

  19. The World Traveling Law Student.......

    ....rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking Titanic, with a carpenter's level, and plenty of shims in hand.

    And the band played on.

  20. "What the scamblogs represent to me - failure pseudo-justified."

    Ok, then leave.

    Why are you wasting your time on this blog if you are satisfied with your choice in going to law school then? If the advice does not apply to you, move on. You posting here and going back at people who disagree with *you* is getting really ridiculous. In fact, it's pretty darn hypocritical of you playing victim here.

    And AGAIN you failed to outline your points in your posts justifying the outrageous cost to attend law school. You negated to argue the pros in having 200 law schools opened and doing business in this country. I couldn't give a flying hoot about your GPA, and your quest for success. You want to prove you are smart, here's your chance:

    1) State why the ABA should not close any law schools;

    2) State why the ABA should continue to allow 4T and low ranked 3T to remain open and accept new enrollment;

    3) State your reasons why paying $30K plus per year is worth it, provided that there is no guarantee of employment even after passing the bar, and your student loan is non-dischargable debt?

    The above are issues which scambloggers have brought to light.

    No one cares that you feel that you made the right choice for yourself in attending law school. However, the overproduction of lawyers, the ABA allowing firms to outsource to India and China, as well as the outrageous cost of tuition are serious issues which need to be addressed. These very issues have been brought to light by the various scamblogs. If you can't get your head around that, then I feel bad for your future clients that you are unable to decipher and process information.

  21. "WTLS: you talk to the WIFE about this blog in the bathroom? Kid, you really got an obsession. Oy!
    August 2, 2011 2:07 PM"

    We take baths together and talk about a lot of things. Yes, this blog comes up sometimes.

  22. 1) State why the ABA should not close any law schools;
    Because it's a free market and market forces, aka invisible hand, will do the job as time passes. Eventually excess law schools will be forced to shut down, but only when people stop paying. As long as people pay, it's a fair game and a fair market.

    2) State why the ABA should continue to allow 4T and low ranked 3T to remain open and accept new enrollment;
    Because some 4T schools are regional schools that serve the need of their region. My old school, WNEC does a good job of serving a city that Boston grads don't really seem to care practicing in. Most of the law firms in this city hire mostly WNEC grads.

    3) State your reasons why paying $30K plus per year is worth it, provided that there is no guarantee of employment even after passing the bar, and your student loan is non-dischargable debt?
    There is no guarantee for most investments. Being a lawyer is a dream for many people. If the prices were lower, then there would be WAY more lawyers out there to compete with. Too much regulation can be a bad thing. The market will eventually take care of it all. People will start to realize law school is not a golden ticket and move on. Until then, law school is a smart choice for those who really do want and dream of practicing law and are willing to do what it takes to make that dream a reality.

  23. To show just how hopelessly dense WTLS is, just look back at the last thread. Someone made a posting that laid out the increase in cost of living, the increase in law school tuition and the increase in costs associated with being a lawyer over a 20 year period and compared these costs to the stagnation or decreases in income for lawyers during the same period. Basically the posting said that the costs of becoming and remaining a lawyer have gone up, along with cost of living, but the expected income has remained flat over time. Made even simpler, the poster said that going to law school is not an economically sound decision because its too expensive in relation to the probable returns.

    What does WTLS answer with? He says that the law schools increase in numbers can be explained by simple supply and demand. Demand to go to law school has gone up, so the number of law schools has gone up. Or, more simply, more law schools exist because more students want to go to law school.

    There was a really funny Beavis and Butthead episode once where Butthead was working at the counter at Burger World. A customer came to the counter and asked, "Do you hand dip your milkshakes, or do you use shake mix?" Butthead answered, "We have chocolate, vanilla and strawberry." I'd say Butthead and WTLS are on about an even level of intellectual functioning.

    I hope you finish law school and begin practicing, WTLS. Other lawyers always need an easy mark to slap around in court.

  24. "Demand to go to law school has gone up, so the number of law schools has gone up. Or, more simply, more law schools exist because more students want to go to law school."

    Duh. And you are the one who doesn't get it. The market creates what there is a demand for. If there a demand for more law schools more schools will come, and prices will fluctuate accordingly until there is enough schools to meet that demand. There are not enough spaces for everyone who applies for law schools, so some people are now willing to pay more, hence the rise in tuition and fees and HENCE the reason people are paying those prices.

    So simple. You basically said and don't get it.

    1. Simple Market principles of Supply and Demand are not applicable here because the majority of law students use government loans to pay for tuition. Offering these relatively cheap loans with long payback periods has the effect of inflating the demand for law school. This in turn, leads to more and more accredited law schools and causes existing law schools to increase enrollment.

      The problem is that, because the government subsidizes the majority of students, the market does not respond properly to tuition increases. The universities are aware of this reality and, yet, continue to raise tuitions each year. The Fed is also complicit, continuing to issue loans without any regard for whether a student will be able to pay it back following law school.

      At some point the bubble is going to burst, and when that happens its the students who are going to suffer the brunt. If you think this isnt possible take a look at what happened in the housing market.

  25. More people want a piece of the law pie and are willing to bring down the income for all to have a part of it. It's like the "tragedy of the commons", which you may remember in property class. Some people make a lot of money fishing in a lake, but other people come and start to overfish. It's no good for anyone at one point because so many people are overfishing that lake. The newcomers brought the price down. So the market creates a barrier, such as tuition (or a fee to use the lake) so less people use it and those who truly want to use the lake can make money.

    Once the freeloaders back off the market fixes itself.

  26. I'll make this really simple, because I can see you are slow.

    Person #1 - Law school is dumb because its gotten expensiver to go to it and you dont get any more money after it than you did a long time ago.

    Person #2 - There are more law schools because more people want to go to them. And they charge more money because people will pay more money.

    Person #1 and #2 are both talking about law school, but what person #2 says HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT PERSON #1 SAID.

    Go look up "non sequitur." You are an expert at using them.

  27. You take baths? Are you gay or something? In your words, you're in a bathtub with a woman (I assume it's your retarded sister or butt ugly mother) and you're thinking about this blog.


    Loser. Hey, if you're gettin' ready to transfer to a better skool, should you be moved out already. Class starts in 3 weeks or so. Nando, go pull this guy's IPaddress so we can all see that he's still in Springfield, Mass.

  28. Yes, I love baths, and so do a lot of men. I am sorry that you think that's gay. My wife loves baths too, and to be honest, women LOVE guys who love baths. Wow. That has nothing to do with law school. An empty insult.

    I am still in Springfield. Nando doesn't have to pull anything of mine. I will be in my new city a week before school starts as this month is free (last month paid in advance) and I am maximizing my budget.

    Why use non-dischargable student loans to pay for a place in a way more expensive city when one can live cheaply even if the city they are in is less exciting?

  29. While we are kind of discussing the economics of going to law school, here's the explanation for why the scamblogs serve a useful economic purpose. To function efficiently, economic systems need to have adequate information available for people to make rational economic decisions.

    Before scamblogs, the law schools were the main source of information about the value of a law degree. Not too surprisingly, the law schools were not too terribly inclined to shine a light on the downsides of obtaining a legal education. To make things worse, law schools don't provide accurate information about the value of a law degree (inflated job placement reports).

    Scamblogs are good for potential students because they increase the information available about law school. People can look at the scamblogs and decide to agree with them or disagree with them. Like if you were thinking about buying stock in a company, you would not be wise to rely solely on the company's prospectus and annual report to decide whether or not to buy the stock. You might look at online discussion boards. You might talk to a stockbroker. You might look at how similar stocks are performing. Doing this kind of research on stocks is possible because multiple sources of information about stocks are available.

    Law school is a huge expenditure. Better to have as much information available as possible before deciding to go. When I decided to go to law school in 2001, there were no scamblogs. I did not have this information available that might have changed my mind about law school. All I had were law school websites, US News, the Princeton Review and some other books about law schools that I bought before I went to law school. All these sources said the same thing - law school is great. You should go.

    Scamblogs are the counterpoint to the point. No one has to rely on what they say. They are just another source of information about law school. And in a way, if you plan to finish law school and become a lawyer, you should be glad that scamblogs exist. If they work as intended, fewer people will go to law school, which will mean less competition for you in future.

  30. I told my wife about the bath comment and she says that she loves that about me, that I take baths with her. I take a bath about once a day. There's nothing like splashing around naked in a big tub full of water. Add a woman to the mix and it's divine.

    She says that people who call each other gay are just insecure about their own sexuality. She is right. What makes a man like other men because they enjoy a bath?

    Also, she pointed out that people who use cussing are insecure about their own views. Name calling and such proves that. This blog is full of fowl language and name calling, none of which is needed. If I had a nickel for every time Nando called me a dirty word I'd be a rich man. Why not get your point across through something a bit less offensive? I understand that Nando thinks that pictures of poo are fun (he should talk to Sigmund Freud about that, if he was alive), but this is too much.

    Anyway, that's all I have to say about that.

    As for the comment:

    "And in a way, if you plan to finish law school and become a lawyer, you should be glad that scamblogs exist. If they work as intended, fewer people will go to law school, which will mean less competition for you in future."

    I don't worry about my competition. If I had none I'd get lazy and complacent. I already whooped 72% of my class first year. I plan on whoopin' far more than that when I transfer. Let 'em at me in the real world. They have no clue the storm they are up against.

    The World Traveling Law Student

  31. WTLS, I have to ask. How much debt have you taken on so far for law school, and how much do you expect to take on by the end of law school?

  32. So far for undergrad around $50,000, and to be honest, have not been keeping track for law school. I imagine it's about $40-something. I figure once it's all calculated it will be all calculated, and I won't let it hang over my head like JDpainter. It is what it is, and we can't change that now.

  33. WTLS, for an economics master, your math sure is bad.

  34. Law school is not worth the money in the current economy. However, if this is something you desire at all costs and are willing to take the risk knowing the high downside then go for it. If you do go, understand the upside and downside of the school you attend. Also, understand that outside of the top 10 law schools, the practice of law is highly local.

    University of Baltimore might be ranked 117 by US News, but its employment stats and salaries are extremely similar to University of Maryland which is ranked 42 per US News. Such a dramatic contrast in rankings for very similar stats. It all has to do with the local market conditions.

    Outside of the top 10 schools, very few degrees are portable on a national level. Go to law school where you plan to practice, and make sure that your school has a strong alumni base in your target area. University of Baltimore despite its 117 ranking, has very strong prospects in the State of Maryland, and they are shockingly similar to it's cousin State school University of Maryland law.

  35. "...its employment (University of Baltimore's) stats and salaries are extremely similar to University of Maryland which is ranked 42 per US News."


    Data provided by law schools is fabricated and completely unreliable.

  36. Anon @ 6:34,

    The data I looked at was the data that is listed in US News itself. I don't know how US News compiles this data. If it is from the Schools, you are probably right then it is unreliable.

    I work in the Maryland market and can tell you that most of MD is dominated by University of Baltimore law grads. The elected State's attorney for Baltimore City is a UM grad, while Baltimore County, Harford County, Carrol County, Howard County, Frederick County, St Mary's County, Queen Anne's County and many more elected State's Attorneys are all University of Baltimore Law grads. The former 30 year attorney General of Maryland Joe Curran is a Baltimore Law grad along with the late Md 2 term Gov. Schaefer. The owner of the Orioles Peter Angelos graduated from this School. Partners at Venable and DLA Piper are also grads of Baltimore. It even graduated Spiro Agnew the shamed VP of Nixon.

    University of Baltimore is not a national school, but it is first rate in the MD market without question. My advice is know the job market in which you intend to work, and who the players are in that market.

  37. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Baltimore_School_of_Law

    The list of Judges and alumni from this school is impressive. The school is extremely strong in MD. The practice of law is mostly a local endeavor and you can't fairly compare a local university with national institutions. This school produces MD attorneys of high stature and elected officials, not big firm New York or Chicago prospects. If you are an out of state student and want to go back home to practice then University of Baltimore and Maryland for that matter have little portability outside of MD. I am sure this can be said of many schools outside the top 10. Just know your job market and understand the limits of the degrees you are seeking in the larger national markets.

  38. "WTLS, for an economics master, your math sure is bad.

    August 2, 2011 6:05 PM"

    WTLS is full of shit. I doubt he is any kind of student at all, and his "economics" knowledge belies a high school sophomore's level of mastery at best. He has changed his personal story dozens of times , and therefore has ZERO credibility on this page. He posts from his parents' basement.

  39. "Once the freeloaders back off the market fixes itself."

    Really? Tell that to a home owner today when the government insisted on banks lending money to anyone with a pulse so they can buy a house over 10 years ago.

    Tuition is not used as a buffer to fend off "freeloaders" silly. Tuition is used as profit to pay salaries of professors and deans who actually do very little during their tenure. In comparison to an elementary, early childhood, and high school teachers, professors have a serious cake-walk. They can simply re-use the same lesson plans they created years ago. The high salaries commanded by most professors is completely unjustified.

    The real buffer to fend off as you call them "freeloaders" should be LSAT score and GPA of 3.1 and higher from a 1T or 2T UGC, not the high cost of tuition. How is it socking it to some kid who was only able to be accepted into Cooley helping this field? Seriously, do tell. Your arguments defending the current law school structure fails.

    And you still don't get that 200 law schools pumping out grads every semester really hurts the market. The number of 4T and low ranked 3T law schools definitely is not helping people who need a smart, capable attorney to represent them. The high cost of tuition and repayment of student loans certainly isn't helping those who need affordable legal services. You also run the risk of attorneys undercutting the competition on legal fees, and also run the risk in having attorneys provide sub-par legal services to either keep up with the competition, or taking more cases on than one can really handle in order to pay off students loans.

    You seriously don't get the big picture here.

  40. Nando, you needed to photoshop birdshit on this guy's shoulder or just `shop his head onto a turd because he is ten pounds of elephant shit in a two pound bag....I still stand behind my bloodthirsty Cossack "kill `em all and burn the schools to the ground" policy; all these half-assed "lawyers" they crank out are actually dragging down the competence of the American legal system.

  41. I am not too troubled by the money grubbing and attempts to game the rankings. It is disgusting, but deans will be deans.

    The true moral failure of guys like Closius and Matasar is even more basic: the incredibly expensive legal education they provide is crap. What do most newly-minted JDs remember after three years of full-time study. Just disconnected bits and pieces of black letter law. Overwhelmingly, they lack the training to competently represent a client on even the simplest matter, let alone to try a case or write an appeal.

  42. The World Traveling Law Student is a 100% worthless cunt.

  43. http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=

    Time Visitor Session
    Aug 2 2011 5:59pm 4 actions 1m 25s
    Aug 2 2011 4:46pm 3 actions 12m 54s
    Aug 2 2011 4:16pm 4 actions 2m 22s
    Aug 2 2011 3:24pm 13 actions 22m 55s
    Aug 2 2011 1:58pm 3 actions 6m 41s
    Aug 2 2011 1:42pm 7 actions 15m 26s
    Aug 2 2011 1:35pm 2 actions 7m 2s
    Aug 2 2011 1:16pm 1 action 8m 39s
    Aug 2 2011 1:09pm 4 actions 6m 23s
    Aug 2 2011 11:37am 2 actions 1m 1s
    Aug 2 2011 10:05am 4 actions 2m 57s
    Aug 2 2011 8:49am 4 actions 5m 10s
    Aug 2 2011 7:56am 4 actions 27s
    Aug 2 2011 6:27am 4 actions 9m 15s
    Aug 2 2011 6:06am 2 actions 8s
    Aug 2 2011 5:36am 2 actions 19m 20s
    Aug 2 2011 5:09am 5 actions 12m 30s
    Aug 1 2011 5:49pm 5 actions 2m 36s
    Aug 1 2011 4:25pm 2 actions 5s
    Aug 1 2011 4:13pm 2 actions 4s
    Aug 1 2011 11:54am 2 actions 3m 46s
    Aug 1 2011 11:13am 3 actions 3m 53s
    Aug 1 2011 10:43am 1 action 10s
    Aug 1 2011 8:31am 3 actions 19m 22s
    Aug 1 2011 7:50am 9 actions 5m 59s
    Aug 1 2011 7:06am 11 actions 23m 8s
    Aug 1 2011 6:28am 2 actions 4s
    Aug 1 2011 6:06am 5 actions 5m 53s
    Aug 1 2011 5:20am 1 action 10s
    Aug 1 2011 4:27am 4 actions 11m 39s
    Aug 1 2011 3:48am 2 actions 1m 4s

    You made 14 visits to this blog on Monday, followed up by 17 visits on Tuesday. (The mental deficient also stopped by 14 times on Sunday, July 31st.) Shouldn’t you be busy packing your possessions, for your upcoming move, cockroach?!?! You also claim to be working in two internships this summer - one of which you accepted very recently. Furthermore, you also said that Springfield is a good place to practice for WNEC grads. So, why transfer, douche bag?! What will be the next twist in your story?

    “I already whooped 72% of my class first year. I plan on whoopin' far more than that when I transfer. Let 'em at me in the real world. They have no clue the storm they are up against.

    The World Traveling Law Student

    August 2, 2011 4:57 PM”

    By the way, econ major/liar, 100-72 = 28. You CLAIM to be in the top 18% of the class, and you don’t realize that would mean that you performed better than 82 percent of the class, not 72 percent?!?!

  44. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/education/bs-md-ub-interim-law-dean-20110802,0,4147208.story

    “The University of Baltimore has tapped law professor Michael Higginbotham to serve as interim dean of its law school after former dean Phil Closius resigned last week.

    In announcing Higginbotham's appointment Tuesday, university President Robert L. Bogomolny said, "He is among the most respected members of the UB law faculty, and his natural leadership skills and unquestionable integrity will maintain the School of Law's forward momentum during this transitional period."

    [Read: “He is among the most reliable members of the UB law faculty, and his ability to support the status quo and keep his mouth shut will help ensure that the law school continues to support the university’s coffers, during these economic times.”]


    “Bogomolny disputed the claim, using figures from the prior school year, the Baltimore Sun points out. Although the university retained 42 percent of law school revenue, it spent much of the money on the law school’s operating costs, such as human resources, technology, heat, light and security, Bogomolny said. “In fact, in 2010,” he wrote, “the university retained 13.7 percent of law revenue centrally, after allocating costs related to the law school's regular operation."

    The Baltimore Sun contacted Closius for his comments. He said he disagreed with Bogomolny's interpretation of the financial numbers, "and I'm pretty sure I'm right." He has the support of many students and alumni, the story says. A rally to protest Closius’ ouster was planned for Tuesday.”

    Isn’t it sad and pathetic to see so many debt-soaked students come to the aid of Closius? Children, your school is ranked as the 117th best law school in the nation, by US “News” & World Report!


    Average law student indebtedness for Class of 2010 members who incurred law school debt is listed at $94,200. Fully 82 percent of this unfortunate graduating class took on such NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. By the way, this amount does not include student loan debt from undergrad.


    According to Law School Numbers, full-time, in-state tuition totaled $19,235 for the 2006-2007 school year. For full-time, non-residents attending this dung heap, tuition amounted to $31,151 for 2006-2007.


    As you can see, full-time law students who are Maryland residents will pay $25,798 in tuition and fees for 2011-2012. Out-of-state, full-time law students will be charged $38,900 for the upcoming school year. Do you still feel that Closius has your best interests at heart?!?!

  45. “I already whooped 72% of my class first year. I plan on whoopin' far more than that when I transfer. Let 'em at me in the real world. They have no clue the storm they are up against.

    The World Traveling Law Student

    August 2, 2011 4:57 PM”

    By the way, econ major/liar, 100-72 = 28. You CLAIM to be in the top 18% of the class, and you don’t realize that would mean that you performed better than 82 percent of the class, not 72 percent?!?!

    Yes, I realized the error later on in the night but it was too late. The computer was off and I was in the bed. Oh well, not like I would climb out to fix it. But yes, it's 82%. Why is that so hard to fathom for you?

    Also, I want to practice in NYC or San Francisco thus I am moving to one of those cities. I will not say which. Not yet. I have been accepted to schools in both, however, and am excited to end up where I have been wanting to be.

  46. UBalt students come to the aid of Closius. What a joke. I guess the dummies don't understand that law faculties are in charge of the curriculum and have a big say in how the law schools operate. They are fleecing you. Don't you get it?

    Closius is merely a smaller financial goon than the university president. I tell you: law students get dumber every year. Critical thinking, my ass.

  47. Like I said, ignore this fucking idiot. He obviously feels superior to everyone now that he was accepted as a transfer student. Good luck, now fuck off. Talk to us when you graduate, pass the bar and land a job that allows you to pay off your debt your monthly living expenses.

  48. I. The Apology

    I do not feel superior to anyone, and I am very sorry if I came across that way. I am proud of myself, and why should I not be? I spent my whole semester in that library and on the bus studying. I worked my butt off to be able to transfer to schools I was rejected to or had no chance at all of getting into my first chance around. It has been many of you who put down that, and I have rebelled.

    II. The Rebuttal

    These schools, these regional schools serve a purpose. Someone already pointed that out. If you are all too dense to understand that, then dang, I honestly totally understand why you failed law school and the post law school shuffle. I already explained that the regional schools are often a powerhouse in their local region. There should be nothing else to say.

    III. Notification of acceptance of apologies.

    I will be accepting all apologies until the end of the day. Thank you.

    The World Traveling Law Student

  49. Shills often claim law school is a free market, that the pigs should be allowed to charge and publish whatever they want. If this is the case, strip law schools of their non-profit status and regulate them like any other business.

    The idea that law schools are providing a noble service to students is laughable. They only care about the cash i.e. Matasar accepting an extra 171 students into superdump shithole NYLS, so he wouldn't have to pay higher interest rates on bonds for the new law building.

  50. "I already explained that the regional schools are often a powerhouse in their local region. There should be nothing else to say."

    You jack ass! For someone who wants to move to NYC, you have no idea. Guess you didn't read this article about this guy who is a graduate of Pace, a "regional law school" located in Southern NY State:


    Pace grads at one time were able to find jobs at local law firms in Westchester County and in NYC, or work in-house after graduating and passing the bar. Although not a T50 school, Pace is still considered as a decent law school in the NY Metro law community. Last I checked Linked-In, this grad is ***still*** working at Radio Shack while he interns (probably with no pay) for the local bar association.

    When I volunteered last year at the Hudson Valley Legal Services, I worked with several Pace law grads who were also working for free to keep their resumes fresh. They knew the guy featured in this article and remarked that he was a very good student and he was in the top 20% of his class. They were also freaking out that they couldn't find any jobs either and were already receiving invoices to pay off their loans.

    I'm done with you--this will be my last post responding to you. You are an arrogant jack ass. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't come blazing on here thinking you are all that because you managed to transfer from a 4T to a 2T when others who actually work in law as attorneys, in support, and work as clerks in court state otherwise and you mock them. As I said before: no one here is stopping you in going to law school. Why you come here and post bollocks about taking baths with your wife, being in the 18%, etc. adds very little value to these discussions.

    Piss off.

  51. "I will be accepting all apologies until the end of the day. Thank you.

    The World Traveling Law Student

    August 3, 2011 10:56 AM"

    Up yours, WTLS.

  52. You have until a minute to midnight. I hope you sing a different song as you think things over.

    Oh, and law schools are providing a noble service. They are teaching us law. Nuff said.

    The World Traveling Law Student

  53. "I already explained that the regional schools are often a powerhouse in their local region. There should be nothing else to say."

    Really? I think this guy would certainly disagree with you:


    Although not a T50, Pace is considered to be a decent law school within the NY Metro Legal Community. At one time Pace grads had no problem finding jobs at local law firms or working in-house in Westchester County and small law in NYC. Last I checked, this guy is **still** working at Radio Shack. I'm pretty sure his current intern gig at the Westchester County Bar Association is unpaid.

  54. You always have a one example answer for everything. There's always something you can find, but what about the other 100 graduates of his class?

  55. When I say regional schools, I am talking about University of Montana or Idaho, or Gonzaga, or WNEC, schools that are the only schools in their region, but ranked low on the US News list. I understand that there are a lot of schools in NYC, and that's a different topic altogether.

  56. (continued from above)

    Last year I volunteered at the Hudson Valley Legal Services Center and worked with a few Pace grads who were also volunteering their time who knew this guy. From what I have been told, this grad was a very good student. In fact, one of the volunteers graduated with this guy and he was in the top 20% of his class. The grads I worked with from Pace were also freaking out because they could not find paid work anywhere. (BTW: the Legal Services Center had to end up laying off some of its staff attorneys and support staff last summer).

    No one here owes you any apology. In fact you owe us an apology with your senseless posts, drivel, and passing judgment on those who were unable to land jobs after graduation. No one is trying to talk **you** out of going to law school. You want to take that risk, you go right ahead. Your need to come onto this blog and disrupt it is getting out of hand now. I am beginning to think you are a law school dean on the chopping block instead of some law student. The 3L's I know are freaking out over the slim job prospects and paying off that debt.

    Seriously, I have no idea why you are still here. No one care's about your decision to stick it out in law school. You have to be suffering from some kind of mental illness to keep poping up here and posting nonsence.

  57. "Oh, and law schools are providing a noble service. They are teaching us law. Nuff said.

    The World Traveling Law Student

    August 3, 2011 12:42 PM"

    This time, sideways, WTLS.

  58. "I understand that there are a lot of schools in NYC, and that's a different topic altogether."

    Pace U is not even located in NYC jack ass! You must have missed the fact that 1) this kid was an excellent student; 2) Pace is considered as a decent law school in its area; 3) dude is still working at Radio Shack as a manager!

    Seriously, I am done with you. Last time I am wasting my time and energies in replying to you. If I could, I would check "IGNORE" and block you altogether.

  59. I'll say it again, just ignore this idiot in the future. Hopefully, when law school starts back up we won't have to listen to him as frequently, if eve, since he'll be "busting his ass" to maintain that 20th percentile or whatever.

  60. Law School Professors and administrators are the lowest form of scumbags on the face of the Earth. Bottom feeding ambulance chasers are light years above these troglodytes in terms of honor for at least gutter lawyers arguably provide a return for their clients.

    Law School professors/admins are overpaid, proivde little to no value and serve solely to suck the blood out of society by engendering false dreams in the minds of unsuspecting idiots. These parasites should all be roundly smacked.

  61. Re pace: for the record, if the "area" in which it is considered "decent" is relegated to downtown White Plains, then yes you are correct. Any other area, it's considered a fucking joke.

  62. I hope WTLS never stops posting here. Has there ever bee a more clueless lemming in history? Let's look at the facts. WTLS has 50k in debt from undergrad. He took out 40k for fourth tier 1L. He will probably take out more than 40k each year for 2L and 3L. This means he will be over 200k in the hole after law school. He plans to live and work in a high cost of living city after graduation. He has a fantasy that IBR will save him somehow. He thinks that he can just join the AUSA's office or the JAG corps or get some federal job after he graduates if whatever his other plans are don't work out.

    Making all this better, he believes he will succeed through sheer force of his determination. Y'know because there are no other JDs in San Francisco or NY who are determined to succeed.

    But what makes WTLS such an outstanding figure is how hopelessly unintelligent he is. Someone shreds his arguments to pieces, and he just sort of disappears and has nothing else to say. He picks out the weak non-arguments (insults to his mom) and responds to those. Nothing to say though when someone tears his (minimally) substantive arguments to pieces. He has a degree in economics, but knows nothing about economics beyond simple supply and demand.

    He made an idiotic post on his own blog trying to compare law school and dental school. Replying posters told him his posting was idiotic. What did WTLS do? He made excuses for himself and backed off of his story.

    In short, what you have is someone who will be deep in debt with no actual plan of what to do with his law degree (beyond being a big success) who can't make coherent arguments and can't defend his own incoherent ideas when someone challenges him. This is about the worst possible combination of issues for someone who plans to practice law.

    WTLS is law lemming personified. He is desperately needed here so that other law lemmings who have some degree of self awareness can see his postings and realize for themselves the folly of going into impossible to pay back debt for a law degree. He doesn't realize it, but WTLS is exactly the kind of sucker that every law school prays will enter their doors. He should serve as an example to everyone of what not to do and how not to do it.

  63. You think you have derailed me. You think you have won. You have not. You have only proved to me that you can sling poop of a different flavor. I have explained my thoughts here, but it's like trying to explain astrophysics to a stick. You are all so set on your ways because your anger fuels you. You all sit behind your keyboard in angst, which I sit back and laugh so hard at this. I have made it into a game almost. Do you think I sit here for a long time and think up facts? No, why should I? I know that no matter what I come up with it's wasted time on my part. I get more glee from watching you all squirm.

    You follow this stuff like a religion. One thing I have learned in my life is to not get involved in religious debates because it's very challenging to get the person to believe something new. Your religion, however, is wacked. You think that law school is a conspiracy theory. You are all probably so scared to walk outside. The world is out to get you! You should have just stayed home with mommy and never left. You know nothing about me. You claim I live in my mother's basement, yet I moved out right when I graduated high school. I have always been self-sufficient and never relied on my parents, who have battled their own financial problems. I was not born into the middle class like many of my fellow students. I went into law school and college knowing nothing. I came out of my first year of law school in the top 18% percent of my class. I am like a law school scion. 82% of my class dreams of attaining such a rank. The rest are probably just lucky.

    It feels good to tear a person apart when you don't know anything about them, huh? You all have generalized so much about law school, about people. Hell, you know NOTHING about people, you are all so busy on an INTERNET BLOG whining all day while some of us are trying to get ready for law school. We know what we are paying for. IF WE DIDN'T WE WOULD NOT BE PAYING THIRTY THOUSAND A YEAR FOR THE PRIVILEGE. DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME WHAT TO THINK ABOUT MY OWN CAREER PATH. You all have shown to me you know nothing about the post graduate world, and when Mr. Vet came here and spouted off how it was so bad for him, I saw through that and realized that he was just one of you, you sneaky snakes. You vile vermin. You want to tear the dreams of the youth up because you don't like it. Nando thinks he's a freedom fighter. A real savior of the age. He's just a kid with too much time on his hands. Why don't you concentrate on your own lives instead of trying to get in the way of business? Why don't you concentrate on finding a job and using that degree or paying back your loans instead of whining here?

    Look at Painterguy. He could do so much, but instead he whines on the internet about his life. What a waste. He has talent, but he blames law school for EVERYTHING. And you all worship him as a mascot. He could be happy and play a banjo, but he has talked himself into believing that he is a slave to debt. Nobody is a slave. There are options. Grow the heck up. Dang, to think this man, that any of you, are older and more QUOTE UNQUOTE mature than me. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    I knew better than to slack during 1L. Top 18% of my class, and to be honest, I think of myself as even more than that. First semester I was around top 5%. You're going to be in for a treat when you see my next year grades. A treat I say! A TREAT!

    The World Traveling Law Student

  64. I made the posting you are responding to WTLS. Hate to bust your bubble, but I am not angry or angstful. Thats an assumption you make about everyone who posts here. I am married with kids and well settled in life. I make 75k a year. I graduated bottom 50% from a 2nd tier law school. My loan burden is entirely manageable. And I know enough about the world that I would advise almost anyone to stay the hell away from law school and student debt.

  65. 'It feels good to tear a person apart when you don't know anything about them, huh? You all have generalized so much about law school, about people. Hell, you know NOTHING about people, you are all so busy on an INTERNET BLOG whining all day while some of us are trying to get ready for law school. We know what we are paying for. IF WE DIDN'T WE WOULD NOT BE PAYING THIRTY THOUSAND A YEAR FOR THE PRIVILEGE. DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME WHAT TO THINK ABOUT MY OWN CAREER PATH.'

    Hello, mentally unstable loser.

  66. Hello name calling person who has nothing intelligent to say so says something to give himself a nice feeling inside which won't last cuz he's a jerk really but doesn't want to admit it.

  67. I am devoting my 2L year to studies and to destroying this movement. I am going to have a radio appearance soon about law school that I was lucky enough to set up. I was going to surprise you all and put it on my blog, but I am telling you in advance. I am going to derail this movement.

    I am also going to write to my local school newspaper and do a story on this craziness. This can't continue. It just can't be allowed to go on!

    The World Traveling Law Student

  68. Oh, and thank you JDpainter for showing us how to use Monster.com and job hunt online on your last blog post. Really, great use of bandwidth. Sheesh.

  69. I made the posting you are responding to WTLS. "Hate to bust your bubble, but I am not angry or angstful. Thats an assumption you make about everyone who posts here. I am married with kids and well settled in life. I make 75k a year. I graduated bottom 50% from a 2nd tier law school. My loan burden is entirely manageable. And I know enough about the world that I would advise almost anyone to stay the hell away from law school and student debt."

    Then you are successful. Why come here and join these whiners? You are proof that it can be done, and that a person can be happy. Why waste that here? These whiners have no clue what they are talking about, and aside from Daddy's income of their youth, they don't know what $75k is. No concept of money these days with these children. None.

  70. The World Traveling Law Student Jumps all over my blog in terms of views.

    Whenever I make a new Post, WTLS is all over it, like a stalker or something, waiting to bash a bankrupt man into the ground some more.


  71. I hardly post anything on your blog. Sometimes I have something to say. Mostly out of confusion. You are too obsessed though. In fact, you are the one who jumps around like a lunatic. I tried to give you help, but I can see there is nothing. You have doomed yourself, and for that I don't know what to say.

  72. Every village has its idiot. This blog has WTLS.

    While he certainly cannot destroy the "movement", he can destroy this blog. He is, in a clinical sense of the word, an idiot with multiple personalities and probably bipolar disorder. Trying to reason with him is a futile exercise - you do not even know what personality you are talking to in a given moment. Unfortunately, most of the posts here now are exchanges between intelligent people and the idiot without a degree in economics, without a degree in law, without any life and work experience. The idiot that is probably chained to a bed in a mental institution.

    Power of the Internet, I guess.

  73. Nando he's ruining your blog. Ban him (if that's possible?)

  74. As the old saying goes, do not feed the troll. Don't respond to him. Do not visit his dumb ass blog.

    Anyway, with regarding Pace, let me clarify: yes, I was referring to Westchester County. I do know a few Pace grads who are practicing in small law in NYC and LI, however these attorneys graduated before 2003. Westchester County has, or at least one time had, many small to mid size firms and some major companies have satellite/regional offices located in White Plains and nearby Tarrytown . However if you factor in that Pace is in very close proximity to other law schools that are better ranked like Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Brooklyn, and St. John's, you are correct in that the Pace grad is up against some pretty stiff competition.

    Whatever the case, I came across Michael Kremin's profile on LinkedIn this afternoon and my heart sank a bit because he still works at Radio Shack.

  75. Closius is about par for the course as law deans go. I went to Chicago Kent. It was a well known fact there that Kent was the cash cow that kept IIT afoat. Its pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that law schools aren't effective in providing a useful legal education. A good percent of them are there to earn money for the faculty, the administration and the universities they are attached to.

    The schools have all the incentive in the world to game the US News system. Gotta get those numbers up to justify the exorbitant tuition.

    What I would like to see just once would be an honest law school. One that tells prospective students "One graduate made biglaw. 30% are living with mom and dad. Five have skipped the country. Our certificate programs aren't worth a shit. Our faculty is made up of obtuse academics who clerked for two years before realizing that they couldn't make it in the real world. No one takes our law journals seriously. Our building is nice, but it doesn't really matter because all law school involves is sitting in rooms talking about Hadley v Baxendale and the equitable doctrine of laches. You can come to our school, but you will leave with 200k in debt and grim employment prospects."

  76. I'm just here to help insure that WTLS spends the MAXIMUM amount of time possible here, on this blog, rather than doing productive things. That is my goal, and so far it is being met swimmingly. I know so many who have tried so hard in this economy, and this arrogant schmuck insults their utmost efforts to find employment in this seedy business.

    Thank you WTLS. Write often and oftener. You cannot stay away. You know that.


  77. August 3, 2011 8:08 PM:

    I'm with you in spirit, 8:08, regarding our troll friend, but, much like Tommy in Goodfellas telling Jimmy and Henry to "keep Billy Batts here" in that infamous bar scene, I want to keep our friend close, very close. I want him spending maximum time here and away from nobler and useful pursuits. I want to have this arrogant person burning the midnight oil right here. He has insulted people I know who have worked their asses off in this sordid business, implying they don't try enough or are slackers.

  78. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-YlD9UrpA4

  79. Wanna know how I know WTLS is a fake? He says "dang."

  80. The World Traveling Piece of Trash wrote the following drivel at 4:51 pm yesterday:

    “These whiners have no clue what they are talking about, and aside from Daddy's income of their youth, they don't know what $75k is. No concept of money these days with these children. None.”

    You are ASSUMING that most of these posters come from a decent middle class background. Furthermore, as someone who allegedly has a Bachelor’s degree in the field of social science called “economics,” YOU have no clue as to what the hell you are talking about. To wit:

    "Anonymous said...

    WTLS, I have to ask. How much debt have you taken on so far for law school, and how much do you expect to take on by the end of law school?

    August 2, 2011 5:07 PM"

    Here is your response, ass-clown:

    “Anonymous said...

    So far for undergrad around $50,000, and to be honest, have not been keeping track for law school. I imagine it's about $40-something. I figure once it's all calculated it will be all calculated, and I won't let it hang over my head like JDpainter. It is what it is, and we can't change that now.

    August 2, 2011 6:00 PM"

    By your own admission, you already owe about $90K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE student loan debt - and you have only completed one year of law school! That is truly embarrassing. You clearly did not receive any decent scholarship money, from the fourth tier pile of steaming waste called We$TTTTern New England College Sewer of Law. If you are in the top 20 percent of your class, are you turning down scholarship money to attend a higher-rated toilet? Why didn’t you research this important financial decision more thoroughly, bitch?!?!

    Furthermore, YOU are obsessed with this blog, cretin. In contrast, I have not bothered to even check out the moronic ramblings of your fifth-rate site. You insist on trying to persuade those who disagree with you. That is not reasonable, and it indicates mental illness, on your part.

    Lastly, when legal practitioners and those with years of experience in law or business are giving you advice, you would do yourself a favor by keeping your stupid mouth shut. I am not saying that you need to take their word as gospel. However, you should have enough sense not to insult these people. Then again, a three-week old colt has more sense than you, mental deficient.

  81. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/07/29/one-law-school-deans-noisy-withdrawal/

    “In an interview with the Law Blog, Closius said that the Baltimore law school cannot adequately serve its students if it has to provide so much money to the university. This is a gripe shared by many other deans at law schools, which tend to me the most lucrative graduate programs, he said.

    Many public universities are demanding more revenue from their affiliated law schools, because state legislatures have capped the undergraduate tuition that the schools can charge, according to Closius. Some law schools (his included), he said, are having to raise their tuition more than they would like, because universities are demanding greater revenue from the law schools. Making matters worse, he said, tuition is going up at law schools at a time when there is increasing concern that law schools are already overpriced given the relative scarcity of high-paying law jobs.

    “The unwillingness of the University to discuss in a meaningful way the growing imbalance in the financial relationship was also becoming a matter of principle to me,” Closius writes in his letter.”

    The ONLY “principle” this supposed “educator” cares about is making sure that he can keep more of the profits, from increasing law school tuition. Yeah, what a man of honor, huh?!


    “Phillip Closius last week resigned, under pressure, as law dean at the University of Baltimore, and he sent students and faculty members a detailed explanation of his conflicts with the central administration, The Baltimore Sun reported. Specifically, he said that the law school is increasingly subsidizing the rest of the university in ways that he sees as unfair. "I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable justifying tuition and fee increases to law students when the money was actually being used to fund non-law university initiatives," he wrote. (The full letter is here.) Robert L. Bogomolny, president of the university, did not debate the budget issues raised, but issued a statement praising Closius. "He has strengthened an already outstanding faculty, increased the national recognition of the school, and enhanced the success rates of our students," the statement said.”

    By the way, someone mentioned that the Univer$iTTTy of BalTTTimore Sewer of Law is a good regional school. When I mentioned the fact that deans should not buy into the IDIOTIC rankings scheme - and instead make themselves strong regional schools - Closius and Robert Ackerman, of Wayne State University, reacted as if I had told them to cut off one of their limbs.

    The fact remains that constructing massive, new law libraries and shiny law buildings will not make much difference in the rankings game. In essence, most other law schools are also engaging in the education arms race. These commodes will never be able to compete with top ten law schools, on a national scale. On the other side of the coin, if you live in South Dakota - and you want to be a lawyer in that state, and you do not have any pretensions of pulling down $160K per year - then you are probably better off going to the state flagship school. Why take out a massive amount of student loans, when you can take on minimal debt, for the same goal?!

  82. Where's World Traveller's blog? I want to read it!

    WNEC is the worst law school in Mass., an even more pathetic dump than unaccredited Mass. School of Law. Recent WNEC grads are all but unemployable, and Springfield is a sewer that is approaching third world status. (So it's unsurprising that WTLS does not have access to a shower stall.)

    English is apparently not his first language and his understanding of Economics is HS sophomore-level. Neither of which will bar admission to WNEC!

    Please visit this blog again in a couple years when that JD is really paying off WTLS!!! Ha ha ha!!!!

  83. These TTToilets are so rotten, even 'LUSTY' Larry Craig wouldn't dare tap his loafer in one of them!

  84. Big, imposing, sometimes beautiful law school buildings with amphitheater classrooms and libraries containing countless volumes and journals...paid for, ultimately, by money borrowed by students and by the taxpayers...

    Isn't this an anachronism in the digital age? Isn't this unaffordable in the age of public sector austerity?

    Time to give the students value for their tuition dollar. A LEXIS password is as good as a law library, and most classroom instruction can be digitized (maybe not the Socratic headgames, but that can be discarded). Go one step further: replace all these million-dollar deans and tenured do-nothing professors with successful practicing attorneys who would be paid-by-the-course to supervise clinics and provide externships in the various practice areas.

  85. ^Ironically, most paralegal programs are taught by adjunct professors who are practicing attorneys and retired judges. By all means I'm not claiming that paralegals know more than attorneys or have an edge on recent JDs, however it is indeed ironic that most paralegal programs are taught by people who have actual experience in the field.

  86. Well put Nando. In this economy when teachers are being laid off, firehouses are being closed in Baltimore, police and prosecutors are being furloughed, the State of Maryland decided to pump $100 million into a new law school building for one of its two State law schools. It makes no sense given the lack of resources currently available to run the government, that so much money is being devoted to a law school at this time. It's not like state of the art science labs need to be constructed to keep up with new technology as in medicine or other hard sciences.

  87. Here is an update on the situation, from the Baltimore Sun:


    “The University of Baltimore faculty had voiced concerns about how the university was spending its money long before the dean of the law school publicly aired allegations over funding when he was forced to resign last week.

    In a report to UB President Robert L. Bogomolny in February, the faculty senate said it felt too much money was being spent on institutional costs and not enough on faculty salaries and teaching. The report, which was an analysis of expenditures, said that enrollment by degree-seeking students was more than double the increase in teaching faculty from 2004 to 2010. While enrollment rose by more than 30 percent, the teaching faculty rose by less than 10 percent.

    UB also had one of the lowest percentage expenditures on instruction and academic support of any of the universities and colleges in the University System of Maryland, and one of the highest percentages spent on administration.”

    The article concludes:

    "I can tell you that from what I have read in the press, it appears that the law faculty is all up in arms. All of the law faculty is not up in arms," said Neal, who is an associate professor of the law school. However, she said, those who are upset are "really up in arms."

    The president will report back to the community on steps that are being taken to address the issues in the faculty report, according to Hart.”

    [Read: Robert L. Bogomolny will cover his ass.]


    “Phillip J. Closius served as Dean of the School of Law from 2007 to 2011. Before coming to Baltimore, he served at the University of Toledo College of Law beginning in 1979, when he was appointed an assistant professor, followed shortly thereafter by an appointment to associate professor. He was promoted to a full professorship in 1986, teaching Constitutional and First Amendment law, as well as courses in trusts and estate, literature and the law, and sports law. In 1986 he took on additional responsibilities as associate dean for Student and Financial Affairs, where he worked on the college's budget, admissions, personnel, financial aid and career services. In 1999, he was named dean, a position he held until July, 2005, when he returned to the faculty.”

  88. By the way, here is the school bio for the unrepentant douche bag known as Robert L. Bogomolny:


    "Robert L. Bogomolny took on the role of president of the University of Baltimore on August 1, 2002. A Harvard College and Harvard Law School graduate, Bogomolny draws upon an exceptional background that spans the academic, legal and corporate worlds, making him ideally positioned to lead UB into the future.

    Bogomolny came to UB from G.D. Searle & Company, where he served as corporate senior vice president and general counsel from 1987 to 2001. While at Searle, at various times, he directed the company's legal, regulatory, quality control and public affairs activities. Bogomolny also led Searle’s government affairs department in Washington, D.C., and served on the Searle Executive Management Committee."

    In addition to being a corporate whore, Robert also "serves" on the correct boards.

    "Outside of the University, Bogomolny is active in a diverse group of community organizations, including the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, the Kennedy Krieger Institute, THE ASSOCIATED: Jewish Community Federation of Baltimore and the Shriver Hall Concert Series."


    Robert L Bogomolny
    3801 Canterbury Rd, Unit 1001
    Baltimore, MD 21218-2379
    (410) 338-0445
    Age: 65+

    Make sure to thank Robert for his "leadership."

  89. By the way World Traveling Douchbag, JD Painter is the last person on earth that I would worship. To even insinuate to people on this blog that we "worship" that guy is beyond ridiculous. I can't stand his blog, can't stand his stupid posts, can't stand his attention-seeking tactics. He is not the typical person hanging out on these blogs. Instead he's the poster child for law's biggest loser, but only because he gave up on himself and has an excuse for everything.

  90. Here is Matasar's rebuttal:


    Matasar says, inter alia, that:

    1) Law schools are comparably priced and NYLS gets a bad rap for being expensive because students decide to live in the overpriced Tribeca area.

    2) A law degree won't break down like a product and will pay off in a 50 year career.

    3) It is a good idea to enroll in law school during a bad economy to arm yourself for when the economy bounces back.

    4) The market dictates the tuition prices.

    5) He proposes to make a law degree a bachelor's like degree by cutting 2 years of undergrad and making the student go the full 3 years of law school (notice he does not propose to cut the useless 3rd year of law school).

    6) Law schools don't make profits, they exist to break even. All the money goes to the library maintenance, facilities maintenance and faculty salaries.

    I have left out some redundant points Matasar has already made. After watching this interview I am more disgusted by Matasar's disingenuous talking points. It is clear to me that he just talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

  91. Matasar is a pile of Mastadon dung.

  92. August 5, @1:45 is the New Jersey kid most likely.

    I told him to tone his comments down, or I will not post them.

    If he cannot stand me, why does he keep coming back to my blog and making comments, over and over and over?

    And WTLS seems to imply that we are all in favor of full blown Socialism. I don't know where he gets that from.

    Look, when the debt becomes out of control, there used to be a thing called bankruptcy, that was there to protect the debtor, and a chance to start life over.

    In my life I will agree that, sure I have made mistakes, and I will take all blame for where blame is due.

    But assuming the WTLS kid, and the New Jersey kid are 100% correct about me.....

    why did Touro Law school accept me in the first place?

    Was it witchcraft?

    The black arts?

    Just youse stop a minute and take the time to think about all that WTLS, AKA: Snuggles :)

    You need to have a serious conversation with Cryn Johannsen and Alan Collinge by now.

    For you are too young. Too young to understand the world about you.

    And if you take a bubbly bath tonight with the wifey, make sure she scrubs between your tickly, twinkly toes!

  93. "In a report to UB President Robert L. Bogomolny in February, the faculty senate said it felt too much money was being spent on institutional costs and not enough on faculty salaries and teaching."

    Oh the poor law professors! They only make $250,000 per year for their 6 hour workweeks for 8 months out of the year. They need at least $400,000 to lecture on such gems as Palsgraf and the 3rd Restatement of Torts.

    "I can tell you that from what I have read in the press, it appears that the law faculty is all up in arms. All of the law faculty is not up in arms," said Neal, who is an associate professor of the law school. However, she said, those who are upset are "really up in arms."

    haha, I can only imagine what a bunch of aspie law professors "up in arms" look like. Although, with their hideously overpaid salaries considered, they could probably get some serious high-powered weaponry.

  94. Children grow up, or do not grow up, everywhere.

    Even in Minnesota.

  95. Painter - "Youse" is not a word. Did you grow up in Pennsylvania? They use Youse a lot there. Do I have to teach you how to speak proper english now? No wonder you can't get a legal job. Oh yeah, I forgot, you never did pass the bar exam.

  96. Hi August 5, 2011 7:54 PM

    Posting at 10:54 pm EST on a Friday night. Do I need to tell you that's pathetic? No wonder you can't laid. Oh wait, I almost forgot, you don't have the balls to ask women out.

  97. If youse want to get a handful of cash at eh end of the week for something they still call work, the youse had better know the difference between penniless you and the "youse" that the people that manage to hustle in the streets and tun into cash so as to survive, after Higher Ed is all done with a complete rape of "You" n the language of the old Rex or King.

    The King's English, in other words, you Hanover PA wet behind the ears child/kid at IP address, and so fucking hostile that I am very worried about my physical safety.

  98. Howdy folks - wasssssuuuup!! Register with me. I got no jobs, no leads, so what?? At least you will feel like you did summin. Even tho youz will be $4.50 [subway fare] poorer. Still you will git to meet me and who knows maybe you will run into my bevy of beauties in my parlour. Come on in -- ghetto agency party is ON!!!

  99. Wow, if Jimmy Jones asked many of you to take a sip of the Kool-aid, you guys would gulp it right down. This man is an arrogant jerk. I find it funny that while his moral fiber was being stretched, it was never weakened enough for him to step down. Nor was it ever too much for him to offer any of his 270-280k salary back to the law school. It was not until he was asked for his resignation that his unethical load became too much to shoulder. This is less about the “students” he sought to protect and more about his own ego. Funny, this is not the first time this jerk has been axed. Look at the Toledo blade and search his name. Why would a Dean that is so beloved by the students, have a track record of displayed results (increased rankings) be asked to step down? He was the shortest termed Dean at the law school in Univ. of Baltimore’s history. Do you really think he is the first Dean to push the administration on financial matters? This is about him being fired. If he cared so much about the students, he would not have been so public about this. It was no accident this was picked up by the national press. He made sure it would be by blind copying and calling anyone with a social outlet that would listen to him. By making this so public, it will be difficult finding a new Dean that is willing to work under his described conditions with his described school administration. He has and will continue making it difficult to recruit new students. But this is the workings of the egoist. If I can’t play, then not only am I going to take my ball and go home but I am going to destroy the entire playground on my way out. The University of Baltimore will drop in the US News rankings, Phil Closious will make sure of that. He would rather sacrifice his beloved students rather than his own ego. This man is a joke. The University of Baltimore should be embarrassed, not because this immoral, unethical joke of man aired their dirty business but because they allowed him into their ranks in the first place.

  100. re: August 2, 2011 at 1:16 PM

    "I, a law student who has traveled to 4 continents in the last few years, is . . . "

    I . . . is?

    "Two hundred schools is a lot, yes."

    Schools . . . is?

    "They should have never went on after undergrad."

    Should have never went?

    "I realize this is probably because I majored in Economics at a recognized national university, however, there is no excuse."

    There is no excuse.


Web Analytics