Thursday, November 10, 2011

First Tier Meconium: University of Minnesota Law School


http://www.law.umn.edu/prospective/tuition.html

Tuition and Fees: Minnesota residents entering this school, for 2011-2012, on a full-time basis will pay $34,817 - in tuition and fees. This rate also applies to students from Wisconsin, South Dakota and Manitoba. Notice that first year tuition is significantly more expensive than the amount charged for second and third year.

Full-time, non-resident law students at this public commode will be charged $43,385 in tuition and fees, for the 2011-2012 academic year. As the sewer notes, this does not include the mandatory laptop purchase of $1,220 - for first year law students. How nice of them to require this acquisition, huh?!?!

Total Cost of Attendance: The toilet estimates that health insurance, laptop purchase, books and supplies, plus “indirect costs” will add another $17,364 to the tab. Seeing that ABA-accredited dung pits only consider nine-month living expenses, we can determine that twelve month costs would raise this overall figure by $4,193. This would lead to a more accurate total COA - for Minnesota residents and “reciprocity” students in their first year - of $56,374. Using this formula, the estimated price tag for full-time, out-of-state, law students would amount to $64,492 - for the 2011-2012 school year.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, the University of Minnesota Law School is ranked 20th, in the nation. As you will soon discover, somehow only one-third of recent employed graduates bother to report their starting salary to the school.

http://www.law.umn.edu/careers/career-facts-and-statistics.html

Supposed Employment Placement and Starting Salary Figures: The University of Minnesota Law Sewer asserts that 98.9% of its Class of 2010 was employed - presumably within nine months of graduation. Furthermore, the school claims a five year average placement rate - from 2005-2010 - of 98.8 percent.

The pigs claim an average salary for “all employed” graduates, from the Class of 2010, of $88,309. The bastards then use the following disclaimer: "Of those graduates reporting salary information in the Class of 2010. Approximately one-third of those employed typically report a salary." How can you claim an average starting salary for ALL employed grads, from a particular class - based on info from roughly 1/3 of respondents?!?! This embarrassing, pathetic response rate is coming from a “top 20” law school!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+5

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the University of Minnesota JD Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $91,314. In "uplifting" news, only 79 percent of this trash pit’s particular class took on such debt. Keep in mind that this figure does not include debt from undergrad.

http://ww3.startribune.com/dynamic/salaries/employees.php?dpt_code=Law&ent_code=UMTC

Faculty and Administrator Salaries: Thanks to The Star-Tribune, we can see how well these “educators”/state employees make. The following figures represent TOTAL PAY, although the year is not indicated:

According to the paper, Michael Tonry, “Russell M. and Elizabeth M. Bennett Chair in Excellence,” raked in $356,000 in TOTAL PAY. Likewise, Susan M. Wolf, “McKnight Presidential Professor of Law, Medicine & Public Policy; Faegre & Benson Professor of Law; Professor of Medicine,” made $344,476. By the way, how in the hell can one be a professor of medicine - without a medical degree? Guy-Uriel Emmanuel Charles, who apparently "specializes" in law, race and politics, made $298,360.

Fred L. Morrison - who taught at the University of Iowa before joining the University of Minnesota Law School faculty in 1969 - “earned” $297,580. Joan Howland, “Roger F. Noreen Professor of Law; Associate Dean for Information and Technology,” rolled around in $271,095. Take a look at the entire list, so you can see how many of these pigs and cockroaches at this public commode are making more than $200K per year.

Conclusion: This school is an overpriced pile of moist garbage. MANY “educators” at this public “institution of higher learning” are raking in more than $200K per year, so that they can write law review articles - and research their pet causes, such as Native American law. It is CLEAR that the school does not give one damn about its students or recent graduates. The pigs merely want to keep the gravy train running. The fact remains that there is NO VALID REASON to pay any “law professor” such excessive salaries - especially at public universities!

Do you want to be burdened with an additional $95K-$130K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, so that you can directly contribrute to the bloated salaries of these swine?!?! Remember that these bastards are paid up front, in full. You, the student and graduate, take on all of the risk. Furthermore, only one-third of employed graduates - from the University of Minnesota Law Sewer Class of 2010 - provided their salary to the school. That speaks volumes!

60 comments:

  1. Baby shit is a good way to describe this school. Top 20 and only 1/3 of grads provide their income data to the school.

    At least you can toss away a dirty diaper. You are stuck with the crazy debt and shit job prospects coming out of here.

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  2. People don't realise that outside of the T14, basically EVERY school is a regional school, and if you're in a region with a weak legal market rankings outside of T14 don't matter because nobody is there to hire you.

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  3. ^TITCR. For the whole fucking scam.

    I wish the comments section had a "like" button.

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  4. @ 8:16AM

    You hit the nail on the head. In NYC, you could be a top 10%, law review grad from this "T20" school but biglaw will shun you. The reality is, a top 5% grad from that dump known as NYLS has a better chance of cracking into biglaw than a grad from MN.

    On a different but somewhat related note, these law schools and universitites don't give a fuck about people's welfare. Look at the Penn State scandal. Those board of trustees knew about Sandusky's behavior. As long as the football programs was bringing in millions, in endorsements, licensing fees and alumni endowments, the school turned a blind eye to a 10 year old getting buggered up the ass. These schools are all in it for $$$. They don't care about you when you are broke, no job and finished.

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  5. Fetus shit! Just when I thought you had run out of fecal creativity...

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  6. @853 AM:

    You are so right. It's all about the money. As long as the dollars keep flowing, its all good.

    The schools don't care if you are living under a bridge. They've got your money. You've got a useless degree and debt for life. They robbed you but its worse than that. They robbed you for years into your future. They robbed you for life.

    But society (banks, businesses, the government, the schools) does that every day. Ever wonder why the Average Joe never gets ahead? The System is designed to continually fuck you for profit.

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  7. How does it benefit society for US taxpayers to pay law professors $200 or $300K per year? The students are the ones who ultimately are on the hook. When they can't get jobs as lawyers, they're told not to be greedy by the fucking criminals getting paid $200K a year to teach Palsgraf.

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  8. Law professors are crooks.

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  9. The Oregon State Bar Bulletin published "Cream and Sugar with That Law Degree" as its front cover article.

    http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/11nov/degree.html

    I strongly recommend the read. It's a lengthy survey of all the criticisms of the lucrative law school industry and the tactics Oregon's law schools use to massage their employment numbers, such as fellowship programs that end at the close of the 9-month reporting period for US News & World Report.

    Let's hope that other state bar associations follow Oregon's lead and start publicly denouncing the $150,000 rip-off called legal education.

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  10. Another shit ass school trying to get by as a top 20 program. This one's out of Minneapolis. Good luck landing biglaw if you're not on law review or not connected, suckers.

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  11. ARE THESE COMMENTS COMING FROM FOLKS WHO DIDN"T GET INTO MINNESOTA LAW???

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  12. As a student at the prestigious University of Minnesota Law Sewer, you can write onto the illustrious journal, Law & Inequality: A Journal of Theory and Practice. Apparently, these “legal scholars” are not aware that legal systems typically perpetuate inequality in society.

    http://www.law.umn.edu/lawineq/index.html

    “The journal was founded in 1981 to examine the social impact of law on disadvantaged people. Law and Inequality publishes articles by legal scholars and practitioners, law students, and non-lawyers. Members of the staff are selected on the basis of their writing abilities and their commitment to eliminating inequality. Editors are elected from among staff members to serve during their third year in law school.”

    http://www.minnjil.org/

    If that doesn’t suit your interests, you can become a student editor of the Minnesota Journal of International Law. As a graduate of this over-rated, over-priced, public dung heap/garbage pit, YOU will not be practicing international law. Unless, you count representing undocumented aliens in immigration court proceedings as “international law.”

    Still not excited about these third tier journals?! Then try out for the faculty-and student-edited ABA Journal of Labor & Employment Law. See how well this turns out for you, if you are unemployed after graduation.

    http://www.law.umn.edu/abajlel/index.html

    “In 2009, the University of Minnesota Law School became the new editorial home of the ABA Journal of Labor & Employment Law (formerly The Labor Lawyer), the publication of the American Bar Association Section of Labor and Employment Law.

    Published since 1985, the journal provides balanced discussions of current developments in labor and employment law to meet the practical needs of attorneys, judges, administrators, and the public. The journal’s circulation includes the 27,000 members of the ABA Section of Labor and Employment Law.

    Editorial work on the journal is a faculty-student collaboration. Faculty co-editors are Stephen F. Befort and Laura J. Cooper.”

    As others on this post have noted, if you do not land near the top of the class of this supposed “top 20” law school, then you will have one hell of a time landing Biglaw. According to U.S. “News” & World Report, the University of Minnesota’s JD Class of 2010 took out an average of $91,314. To be fair, this only counts those students, from non-wealthy backgrounds, i.e. those who needed to incur student loans to finance law school. Attending this school is a HUGE financial risk. Are you prepared to make this gamble?!?!

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  13. To the scrawny bitch - with slender shoulders - who posted at 7:22 pm,

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=71.63.240.140

    Visitor detail
    IP address: 71.63.240.140
    IP lookup: ARIN / RIPE
    Unique ID: 2901431582694854259
    First visit: Thu Jun 23 2011 1:50pm
    Visits: 16
    Language: English
    Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Operating system: Windows 7
    Web browser: Firefox 7.0
    Resolution: 1440x900
    Javascript: Enabled

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Nov 10 2011 7:18pm 71.63.240.140 2 actions 12s qfora.com/jdu/thread.php?threadId=21734
    Nov 10 2011 3:56pm 71.63.240.140 2 actions 11s qfora.com/jdu/thread.php?threadId=21734
    Nov 10 2011 9:02am 71.63.240.140 2 actions 9s qfora.com/jdu/thread.php?threadId=21734
    Nov 10 2011 8:16am 71.63.240.140 2 actions 7s qfora.com/jdu/thread.php?threadId=21734
    Nov 10 2011 7:42am 71.63.240.140 2 actions 8m 17s
    qfora.com/jdu/thread.php?threadId=21734

    Did that ALL CAPS comment come from an immigration toilet-lawyer named Eric who graduated from the University of Minnesota Law School, in 2008?!

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  14. University of Minnesota Law School is the least expensive elite (top 20) law school in the country. If you can get into this
    almost impossible to get into school, you are one lucky guy/gal!

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  15. A simple proposition: Kids who enroll in law school should, in exchange for their tuition, be trained to practice law.

    They should not have to enrich a bunch of scholars of varying abilities, who haven't seen the inside of a courtroom in 20 years, if ever. And they should not be subjected to the world's most inefficient model of pedagogy-- the so-called "Socratic method"-- whereby professors take material that could be learned in several weeks and stretch it to fill three years.

    Law professors should ALL be fired, and replaced by adjunct or part-time faculty--i.e. successful local practioners, paid by the semester. Law school should be reconstituted as a bar review type crash course at the outset, to teach core doctrine fast, followed by a two year long structured series of clinics and externships to teach students how to try a case, how to write an appeal, how to run an office, and how to represent clients in various practice areas.

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  16. get rid of all law reviews.

    This shit serves no purpose other than letting professors build up reputations as experts in esoteric bullshit areas of the law. Plus the journals are not peer reviewed.

    If you got rid of these greedy fucks and replaced 'em all with adjuncts that are experienced lawyers you wouldn't have any need for these law reviews.

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  17. They should require all law professors to actually practice law for a bare minimum of five years before teaching. They should also have term limits for law professors.

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  18. There are other goals other than big law isn't there?

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  19. Nov 10, 10:03 am--I know firsthand how little universities and law schools care about the welfare of their students or junior faculty members. I left the academic rat race for three years when I was involved with someone who worked for a Wall Street investment firm. We were able to get a domestic partnership agreement (Each of us are divorced and were leery of getting married again.), which gave me access to that company's health benefits. They were better and more extensive than anything I ever had even as a full-time faculty member in a major university.

    As for the prospect of U Min Law grads: As others have pointed out, even a Top 20 school like U Min is regional. Grads of schools like U Min don't get hired by NY firms or for other prestigious jobs in other parts of the country.

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  20. 'University of Minnesota Law School is the least expensive elite (top 20) law school in the country. If you can get into this
    almost impossible to get into school, you are one lucky guy/gal!

    November 10, 2011 7:44 PM'

    And it still costs $90K to attend this piece of shit.

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  21. Here's a followup item on one Mr. Jack Whittington who railed against scambloggers, and Nando in particular as I recall, many months back. Jack, don't you know, has been a "columnist" on the Solo Practice University site offering all manner of wisdom to his fellow students on how to get a law job by networking properly, working hard, etc.

    Today, Jack posts that he failed the Texas bar exam and it looks like he'll have to keep selling cars for a living. Unsurprisingly, Jack asserts that this is not a failure but rather "success delayed". Jack and his wife both graduated from Tulsa law after transferring from Cooley. Jack doesn't mention whether his wife passed the bar exam. Here's the link:

    http://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/11/11/its-not-failure-its-just-success-delayed/

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  22. This school exemplifies what is wrong with the USNWR rankings. I am sure many unsuspecting college students enroll in law schools such as Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Alabama based on their rank (these aforementioned schools are ranked somewhere between 20-30). These are respectable schools, however, the pricetag is obscene and unjustified, even for being state schools. Several posters have correctly pointed out that these are good REGIONAL schools. Go to Cravath's website and look up how many Minnesota law grads are employed there as attorneys. I'll save you the trouble: there are ZERO Minnesota law grads there. Sullivan & Cromwell has only 1 Minnesota law alum who graduated over 20 years ago. So you see, the T20 ranking is meaningless if your lifelong dream is work as an associate at a prominent NYC biglaw shop.

    Over the years I have met many bright law grads from Iowa and Minnesota. They express shock when they come into the NYC market and experience difficulty finding a job with their "T20" credential. Again kids, in this market, you need to attend a T5 and graduate in the top 15% to have a shot at biglaw. Minnesota law grads USED to have their pick of the litter of legal jobs in MINNESOTA. That is no longer the case as many T14 grads are invading these traditionally undesireable markets because they can't crack into the NYC/DC markets. If you are a kid from Long Island, NY or somewhere outside of Minnesota, thinking about attending Minnesota law, think again. You must have a regional connection to have a shot of job in Minnesota. As for other markets, you will be treated as a pariah. Thus, don't be fooled by the "T20" rank or state school tuition rate. This school is far from a bargain considering your job prospects coming out of this school.

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  23. Thank you for the update and link, 8:19 am! I posted the following comment on Jack Whittington's blog entry:

    "Congratulations on your sad attempt to spin your recent failure as "delayed success," Jack Whittingon. Don't compare yourself to Abraham Lincoln, Hillary Clinton or Thomas Edison. None of these gifted people attended TTTThomas M. Cooley Law School - and then transferred to the University of TTTulsa Commode of Law. (By the way, Lincoln did not even attend law school, genius.)

    Whether the tool publishes that comment is another matter. For some reason, Whittington failed to list his time at Cooley, under Education - in his LinkedIn profile. I suppose that even this dolt understands that Cooley is a pathetic laughingstock.

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jack-whittington/7/71a/415

    "Jack Whittington's Summary
    I am a recent graduate of the University of Tulsa, College of Law where I served on the Student Bar Association's Executive Board as Secretary to the House of Delegates, Member of the PACE Environmental Law National Moot Court team, and Phi Delta Phi. I am an active blogger contributing to various legal websites. I have a broad range of interests in the legal field and I am very interested in legal academics.I will sit for the Texas Bar in July 2011. Interests include Sports Law, Environmental Law, Intellectual Property, and Civil Litigation.

    Specialties
    Integrating Social Media into Professional Strategies for Law Students and Young Lawyers, Public Relations, and Public Speaking

    Jack Whittington's Education
    University of Tulsa College of Law Juris Doctorate, Law
    2009 – 2011

    Activities and Societies: Student Bar Association, Phi Delta Phi - Rogers Inn, Board of Advocates, Pace Moot Court Team.

    Texas Tech University, College of Arts and Sciences Bachelor of Arts, Political Science and History
    2004 – 2008"

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  24. Jack Whittington also cited Michelle Obama as an example of "delayed success." Aside from marrying a jive talking charlatan who was elected to the presidency, in large part due to the financial backing of Wall Street, what has Mrs. Obama done to qualify as a success?

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  25. Who cares about this fuckwit who can't pass the TX bar. What about this regional top 20 law school? If only a third of grads are giving their income info to the school, that ought to scare the shit out of any incoming class. It won't. Instead the morons will bask in the glory of being accepted or enrolled at a top 20 law school. Sadly even the unemployed sadsacks from this place will cling to their prestigious degree, with everything they've got. It's the only thing they can cling to.

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  26. Nando, please do a follow-up post on Jack Whittington. Was this the same guy who eschewed the scambloggers and claimed he was going to be the next sports lawyer/agent extraordinaire? I know retards that passed the Texas Bar-it's not a difficult exam from what I heard. A follow-up is in order since I recall this guy being a windbag and douche. Now he is comparing himself to Abraham Lincoln.

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  27. Nando, did you read this:

    http://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/09/13/winning-at-the-waiting-game/

    Jack made an indirect reference to you saying how you would cackle with glee at the fact that he took a car salesman position. Would you say he lost the waiting game? Especially given that he expected to be sworn in on Monday the 14th?

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  28. If you are going to freeze your nuts off to attend a Tier 1 school, why would you go Minnesota?

    Minnesota is a lame state. The only mildly interesting thing to come from that state was Prince.

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  29. Minnesota has a thriving gay community, Starbucks, the Tiberwolves, the Twins, not just cold weather. There's even an NFL team up here.

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  30. Where do you find these pictures?

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  31. Do Arizona State next. Make sure to study up on certain male staff members.

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  32. "Minnesota has a thriving gay community, Starbucks, the Tiberwolves, the Twins, not just cold weather. There's even an NFL team up here."

    None of those are incentives to live there, go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt and graduate with poor job prospects.

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  33. A lot of places have thriving gay communities, Starbucks and pro sports teams. Why the fuck should anyone take out $100K for a law degree from this regional school. By all means, go get your degree from here and try to get a legal job in the south. Or on the coasts. Shit, try getting a lawyer job in Washington, Arizona or Arkansas. With the overcrowded job market for lawyers in Minnesota, many will need to do just taht. There are 4 law schools right in the twin cities. The truth is Chicago can't take too many MN grads. There are something like 6 law schools in the windy city. Of course, students from 'elite' law schools like U of MN, U of Iowa think they can land biglaw in Chicago.

    American legal education truly is a fucking scam. They're worse than beauty schools and massage therapy schools. At least you learn a meaningful skill at those diploma factories. You can go to a top 20 or 30 law school and not learn how to file a fucking motion to dismiss or draft a will. Any law professor that says otherwise is a lying cocksucker.

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  34. Years ago, I remember two college classmates who attended law school at the same time. The first guy attended Rutgers-Camden, which is located in a shithole third world rancid city of Camden. The second went on to attend U. of Iowa law. After graduation, the U. of Iowa law guy came back to the Philly area. Meanwhile the Rutgers-Camden guy got a position at a Biglaw firm in Philly. The U. of Iowa guy settled for a govt. job but always wondered why he couldn't get Biglaw out of the higher ranked U. of Iowa. This is where the rankings can be misleading. After T14, the rankings become meaningless. Sure, it doesn't mean U. of Iowa=Cooley. However, don't be fucking shocked when you attend one of these supposed elite "T20" schools and come back to the Northeast and West coast and cannot find a job. Back to the original story. Both guys are fine now. The U. of Iowa guy attended at a time when tuition was under $20K. He had some scholarship money and graduated with relatively low debt. He is still working in govt. The Rutgers-Camden guy is toiling away in a smaller firm. Both hate the legal profession. My two cents.

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  35. Star-Tribune reporter Jenn Ross wrote an article entitled, “Two U of M schools consider switching to private-funding only.” It was updated on July 4, 2011.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/124987709.html

    “Weary of unreliable public funding, two of the University of Minnesota's premier schools are planning for a future without it.

    The U Law School and the Carlson School of Management are both looking at trading what little is left of their state funding for private fundraising that could give them more control over how they operate.

    The two are poised to join a handful of elite schools nationwide in seeking self-sufficiency instead of state support. It might happen in a year, or longer. But already, the U is assessing the idea's merits. Being self-reliant could accelerate the schools' fundraising. But some university leaders, students and alumni worry that it could also weaken their commitment to Minnesota.

    The final word will rest with new President Eric Kaler, who took charge of the U Friday along with its $3.7 billion budget, millions of dollars in budget cuts and public pressure to tamp down tuition increases.

    Newly departed President Robert Bruininks lamented the privatization trend but considers it "inevitable" that a few of the U's schools will break from state funding.

    "By having some state funding in each of our colleges, it encourages all of us to be more self-conscious about our public mission, our public responsibilities, our public commitments," he said in a recent interview. "When you get in a strictly revenue-driven model, there could be temptation to think of yourself as something separate from the whole of the university."

    Apparently in-state tuition is not enough at the University of Minnesota Law Sewer. Isn’t it disgusting how the “educators” talk out of their ass, about still being “committed to the public”?!?! State legislatures are starting to realize that subsidizing tuition for residents at public colleges, universities and graduate schools does not make economic sense. Why put the taxpayers on the hook, so that in-state students can major in “Political Science” or law - at a discounted rate?!

    How many college graduates cannot find jobs for which a four year - or graduate degree - is not required? Ohio University economics professor Richard Vedder shed some light on this situation, in his October 20, 2010 piece for the Chronicle of Higher Education:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/why-did-17-million-students-go-to-college/27634

    “Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree.”

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  36. WHy do these professors need $270K to teach law? Clearly those fuckers are grossly overpaid.

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  37. While we are on Minnesota, WTF is Hamline?

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  38. You could put up a film projector in a classroom, as a substitute for a law professor and play it over and over again for decades at a fraction of the cost. The material barely changes over multiple decades.

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  39. ^You already see this with the bar exam study prep materials. You can buy tapes and discs of lectures and pass. It's all a big fraud.

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  40. ^^ A total fraud, agreed.

    After Bar review, you know more than what the 3 years spent in law school taught you. That is, how to pass a Bar exam and basic competency in core areas of law, which is a lot more than what the 3 years did for you. Granted, you will forget 60% of it after the exam, increasing to 90% etc. after some time.

    So, 3 grand vs. the $125,000+ for the entire 3 years. Its a joke.. What did the professors and the schools do for the students?

    NOTHING. Including job help, etc. LESS than NOTHING. The financial servitude is for life. BarBri and other Bar review courses didn't place the graduates in that situation. In fact, they help the students in passing a Bar which is necessary to get a job. The schools do less than nothing. They just take your money.

    Expensive facilities, law libraries, faculty who work less than 6 hours per week, drive nice cars, have nice homes, and blog on the Internet all day. Oh yeah.. That's fair.

    Not.

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  41. the united states is a big smelly, stinky, worthless pile of black shitNovember 13, 2011 at 12:20 PM

    Here's what has to happen for these shitholes to close down. (Get any notions of the federal gov't getting out of the student loan business out of your head. The libs won't allow anyone to close off opportunities for poor people and minorities. The business friendly Repubs won't let their cronies and political buddies suffer any losses of revenues.)

    So here's the somewhat plausible solution:

    Rack up a shit-ton of student debt. When you can't find a job to pay off your loans, leave the fucking country. Flee this shithole. Say sayonara to this giant turd.

    When congress realizes how many college educated people leave the country, maybe just maybe they'll do something about it. How can they collect the debt from grads living in Korea or England? They can't. If anyone says I'm unethical, they can get fucked. It's okay for the schools and banks to fuck you, but you can't fuck them back?

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  42. You know, nowadays it pays to suck on the gubermint teat. Those nice salaried jobs, 4 weeks vacation, unlimited sick days, personal days, holidays, pension plan, early retirement packages--all subsidized by the sucker taxpayer. Nando, I am not outing any schools but please examine some the state law schools and you will see that these "public" institutions pay their deans and professors among the highest salaries. There was an article a few months ago on this subject on Above the Law. It is sickening how these bullshit professors go to cocktail events and talk about being public servants and noble because they gave up private sector employment to educate the masses. Fuck, you can't make $350K teaching 6 hours a week anywhere else. Look into this. I guarantee you will hit jackpot.

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  43. @12:20pm - Great idea! Few would say your plan is unethical and no one is stopping you from leaving. However, attaining UK citizenship is quite difficult. You may have better luck in South Korea though even that is not automatic...and South Korean democracy certainly has its flaws.

    Best of luck with the plausible solution you describe. When you settle in your new homeland, please don't forget to offer more details on how terrible it is to live in the United States. After all, if life in the US wasn't absolutely horrible, why would a wonderful citizen like yourself want to leave. Obviously, the US will sorely miss your societal contributions and deeply regret having driven you off. Indeed, if enough high quality folks like yourself simply left, the US might be forced to endure a labor shortage. Gosh, whatever would we do.

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  44. 4:10 could you be talking about a certain party school in Tempe, AZ?

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  45. They actually can collect your debt in other jurisdictions; they just need to get the judgment issued in a local court. What's important, though, is that your US student loans would be dischargeable under foreign bankruptcy laws. And there's no need to abscond to Korea; Canada will suffice.

    The problem, of course, is qualifying for immigration. Generally some sort of sought-after professional skill is an important element in the process, and other countries aren't exactly itching for more lawyers.

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  46. ^
    Student loans are NOT dischargeable in Canada. Get your shit together before you try to pretend being an expert. And yes, we need more lawyers, particularly American trained, as we need pandemic syphilis here. Our parasites in provincial bar associations are talking about lawyer deficiency and need for more law schools. And they are opening them too as we speak. We are closely following the US in this regard. Stay the fuck away from Canada if you are dying to be a lawyer.

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  47. US student loans ARE dischargeable in Canada. It's loans from the federal/provincial government that can't be discharged for 7 years post-graduation.

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  48. Nando,

    I've heard many stories about law school girls being ugly, feminist, masculine, argumentative, and neurotic. What is your take on law school girls? I'd like to have your perspective.

    Thanks

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  49. Neither Jack "Bobby" Whittington or his fiance (now wife) Daina Babin Whittington passed the Texas Bar. I read something earlier in the string about his fiance.

    Anyway, I read his blog and that he is a car salesman. It isn't "success delayed." This is reality. Jack is more likely to land a job as a car salesman vs. lawyer. Maybe he will succeed as a solo or maybe not. I tend to wonder why his networking didn't land him any type of legal job in Texas.

    It took me 3 times to pass the bar. Embarrassing but true. However, in the meantime, I made $80,000.00 a year as a contract paralegal and subsequently landed a position in government contracting for $95K. I do government compliance work and it is BORING. I really would rather work for myself.

    Its just a damn shame to see a person with a law degree selling cars, working at radio shack, and so on. As arrogant as Jack behaved on blogs in the past, I actually pity the guy.

    If I could only rewind the past and start over at 19. I wouldn't have gone to college or law school. Ugh. The debt blows. Even though I make a decent income, I most certainly don't get to enjoy it.

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  50. Law schools are the Bernie Madoff of higher education.

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  51. http://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/11/11/its-not-failure-its-just-success-delayed/

    That Jack Guy deleted my post:

    "Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots."

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  52. On May 16, 2007, Empirical Legal Studies posted an entry, entitled “Regional Law Schools and Lawyer Income.” It focuses on findings from an Indiana State Bar Association survey, regarding lawyers from various schools employed in law firms of 1-5 attorneys.

    http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2007/05/regional_law_sc.html

    “Greater Chicago has eight law schools, including Valparaiso in the northwest corner of Indiana. In my opinion, before going $100K into debt, it is important for a prospective student to understand (ideally, quantify) the expected return on investment for each school if he or she hopes to practice law in the Chicago metropolitan area. The results of a larger study may persuade some students to pursue opportunities in other markets (or perhaps rural counties) or forgo law school altogether. As tuition continues to climb ahead of inflation, law schools--and the ABA--need to start thinking along these lines.”

    As you can see from the chart, graduates from supposed top 30 law schools such as Indiana University-Bloomington and the University Notre Dame struggle to place well in the Chicago small law market. To be fair, the name brand of such schools likely help some students land Chicago Biglaw positions.

    “In the five large metros with a substantial number of respondents, three have law schools: Indianapolis (IU-Indianapolis), Chicago-Gary (Valparaiso), and Louisville (Brandeis). In each of these metros, the ISBA respondents are predominantly graduates of the local law school. (Not shown is Cincinnati-Middletown CBSA, which has Univ. of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky; although the total number of respondents there is small, none attended an Indiana law school.)”

    The fact is that law schools such as University of Minnesota or the University of Iowa are regional schools. Are New York and DC Biglaw firms going to cream their pants upon receiving resumes and cover letters, from such JDs?

    While attending Third Tier Drake, one “professor” noted that if you want to work in a certain state or region, then you should attend law school in that area. That is basic common sense. However, he then stated the following: “Even if you went to law school at Berkeley or Stanford, and you apply for positions in New York or Boston, most firms will be weary of hiring you. They’ll probably figure that there’s something wrong with you.”

    As we are well aware now, attending a national law school does not guarantee success. For instance, I knew a man who graduated from Stanford Law School. Upon graduation, he worked for the Sierra Club. After that, he found it difficult to land legal employment - although he did end up subsequently clerking for a federal judge. He ended up enrolling in a PhD program at an elite institution, on the east coast. He is now an associate “professor of law” - but he earned a Bachelor’s degree, his Master’s, a JD and a PhD. This man is also busy submitting political opinion pieces, on various “professor” blogs. He busted his ass, academically, to land this position. Now, he is trying to ensure that he holds onto his teaching role.

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  53. Why is your blog full of Tea Partiers, Nando?

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  54. These so called top regional schools have caused my secretary to have conniptions. This past year alone, she has had to replace three paper shredders from all the resumes and cover letters we have received from JD grads that were duped by the top 20 rank. Memo to midwestern regional schools: There is no room for you here.

    NYC Hiring Partner

    ReplyDelete
  55. Everyone is so pissed here, but isn't this what you had expected when you chose law school? Everything said here has been said before...it is what it is. Sure, the tuition at UMN is high, but compare it to Northwestern and other schools of its tier. You can point out something terribly wrong with every law school outside the top four. I went to law school because I wanted to learn the law, and yeah, landing a job is going to be an uphill battle. If everything is shit, why are any of you in this field?

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  56. How hard is it to get a job at a Top law firm in Minnesota, ie, Minneapolis..when you graduate from U. MInn. I see on the Dorsey and WHitney website several associates who graduated from U. Minn.

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  57. Everyone's problem here is that they don't know how to "hustle" their way to the top. And when I say hustle, Im not talking about working hard, Im talking about working smart!! They don't have the charisma, intellect, and personality to sell that "T20" degree. Everyone thinks that all they have to do is go to a big school, get a degree and then a dream job will fall in their lap! ABSOLUTELY NOT!! I worked at Harvard Law School and I can tell you now, not even the people who get into HLS do that! I knew plenty of HLS grads who had MAJOR problems with getting jobs. This one guy that I knew, he wasn't the smartest apple in the bunch, in fact, no one had a clue how he got in to HLS, but let me tell you this, he fit the part! He had the look, he had the quick wits, and he had the confidence. He told me that he was wait listed at HLS but got in after an interview. That didn't surprise me at al! And now, after barely graduating from HLS, he has a better job than the person who graduated at the top of his class. This is because your ability to sell yourself is all that matters. I know folks from no-name schools who are racking in the cash at big firms...and I know ivy league grads who are struggling to even get an interview. You're a fool if you think this country is all about meritocracy! You're a fool if you think that all you need to do is go to a top 4 law school to get a big job. You're a fool if you think your grades ad degree matters. Sorry for the rude awakening but it doesn't. Perception and connections is all that matters. You gotta know how to bump elbows with the right people who can get you the right jobs. You have to be personable, likable, and most importantly, persuasive. My guess is that many of you have not really fine tuned those traits. Either that or you just don't have the right personality that fits with being in the legal industry to begin with.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Everyone's problem here is that they don't know how to "hustle" their way to the top. And when I say hustle, Im not talking about working hard, Im talking about working smart!! They don't have the charisma, intellect, and personality to sell that "T20" degree. Everyone thinks that all they have to do is go to a big school, get a degree and then a dream job will fall in their lap! ABSOLUTELY NOT!! I worked at Harvard Law School and I can tell you now, not even the people who get into HLS do that! I knew plenty of HLS grads who had MAJOR problems with getting jobs. This one guy that I knew, he wasn't the smartest apple in the bunch, in fact, no one had a clue how he got in to HLS, but let me tell you this, he fit the part! He had the look, he had the quick wits, and he had the confidence. He told me that he was wait listed at HLS but got in after an interview. That didn't surprise me at al! And now, after barely graduating from HLS, he has a better job than the person who graduated at the top of his class. This is because your ability to sell yourself is all that matters. I know folks from no-name schools who are racking in the cash at big firms...and I know ivy league grads who are struggling to even get an interview. You're a fool if you think this country is all about meritocracy! You're a fool if you think that all you need to do is go to a top 4 law school to get a big job. You're a fool if you think your grades ad degree matters. Sorry for the rude awakening but it doesn't. Perception and connections is all that matters. You gotta know how to bump elbows with the right people who can get you the right jobs. You have to be personable, likable, and most importantly, persuasive. My guess is that many of you have not really fine tuned those traits. Either that or you just don't have the right personality that fits with being in the legal industry to begin with.

    ReplyDelete

 
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