Sunday, December 4, 2011

First Tier Indigestion: Indiana University Maurer School of Law

Tuition: Indiana residents attending this school, on a full-time basis will, pay $27,040 in tuition - for the 2011-2012 school year. With mandatory fees and books and supplies thrown in, this combined figure reaches $29,930. Out-of-state, full-time law students at this commode will be charged $44,512, for the current academic year. After adding required fees, plus books and supplies, total direct costs amount to $47,402.

Ranking: According to the bitches and hags at US “News” & World Report, the Indiana University Maurer Sewer of Law is the 23rd ranked law school in the land.

Supposed Employment Placement Rate and Starting Salary Figures: Notice how the deceptive cockroaches attempt to compare IU grads from 2003-2010 to NALP’s Overall JD Class of 2010 data - under Class of 2010: By the Numbers. The CSO dogs do not list a job placement rate. Under the subheading Where Graduates Find Jobs: Firms, note that the swine merely lists purported employment by law firm size - from 2003-2010. Even under this permissive standard, you can see that relatively few Indiana Law grads are practicing Biglaw.

This is duplicitous conduct, because the school is not publishing info strictly from the Indiana University JD Class of 2010. The commode is including data, for several years - from well before the job market went straight to hell - and is using this to bolster its student outcomes. At the bottom of the page, the pigs merely list the names of firms, courts and government agencies that supposedly hired IU Maurer grads, from the Class of 2010. By the way, this stink pit does list median salaries by sector, for its 2010 graduates. Keep in mind that William Henderson, who teaches at this cesspool, noted that median starting salary data is MISLEADING - as relative few recent grads earn the median figures. For $ome rea$on, he apparently does not have any qualms with his employer providing deceptively vague data.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Indiana University-Bloomington Law Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $113,538. By the way, 93 percent of this school’s 2010 class took on such miserable debt. That is one hell of a price tag, for diminishing returns in the job market.

Faculty and Administrator Salary Info: Let’s see how well the pigs made out, in comparison to the indentured debt servants. The Indianapolis Star lists public employee salaries, but does not provide anything newer than 2008. As you can see, Lauren K. Robel made $303,970 in salary, whereas Alfred C. Aman, Jr. raked in $233,500. Supposed “legal rebel” William Henderson made $159,250.

Hypocrisy in Action: William Henderson

In David Segal’s ass-kicking New York Times piece “Is Law School a Losing Game,” from January 8, 2011, Henderson the Pig feigned moral outrage at the law school scheme:

"How do law schools depict a feast amid so much famine?

“Enron-type accounting standards have become the norm,” says William Henderson of Indiana University, one of many exasperated law professors who are asking the American Bar Association to overhaul the way law schools assess themselves. “Every time I look at this data, I feel dirty.”
[Emphasis mine]

On August 2, 2011, Henderson the Apologist wrote a piece for the National Law Journal labeled “More data but less transparency.” Here is a foul excerpt:

“In the wake of hard-hitting stories in The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times, sens. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) have begun a very public correspondence with ABA President Stephen Zack. But several months before these headlines, the ABA Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar had already begun the painful process of creating a better, more transparent system for tracking employment outcomes.”

What a difference seven months makes, huh?! Perhaps he can stick his snout further up the ABA’s corroded ass.

Conclusion: This school is grossly overpriced, and the pigs do not even bother to publish employment “placement” and starting salary statistics. Unless, of course, you are a dumb-ass and feel that listing vague data suffices. You simply DO NOT NEED to incur an additional $115K-$150K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a chance to practice law.


  1. do notre dame law next! Something's funky in the indiana.

  2. This school sent me a ton of mail and I never even considered them when I registered with the LSAC. The school even waived my application fees. I filled that in and mailed it back. My numbers weren't great. And of course I didn't get in to the school. Afterward I thought it was a pointless exercise.

    I mean I'd seen the same thing with total garbage schools. WNEC and Franklin Pierce mailed me and also waived all fees. So did Florida Coastal. I didn't respond to those offers because the schools are pure shit. I only responded to this one because of the ranking. Later on I disocvered or someone else pointed it out to me that schools will solicit applicatoins in order to increase their denial rate. You get that? Schools like to be able to say they have a really high decline rate. I don't know if its calculated in US News rankings. But maybe it adds to the school's prestige because it makes them more selective than others. It's embarrassing that a lowly magazine has so much influence on the law schools and students.

  3. Having lived in Indiana for a summer, I can tell you that the people there are nice and polite. Indiana is the type of place you go to when you are diagnosed with a terminal illness and the doctors give you six months to live. Six months in Indy will seem like an eternity. That being said, I cannot fathom spending 3 years at this law school. The tuition is certainly not polite, in fact, it is pretty damn obscene. In 20 years of practice in NY, I have yet to meet an alum from this school, which tells me it is a regionally, not nationally, known school. From what I also recall, Indiana salaries are low. Sure the standard of living is better than on the East Coast but $113K in student loans is still $113K on the East Coast or the mid-West. Paying off that kind of debt with below average salaries is a losing proposition. Also, Indiana and the surrounding areas are saturated with lawyers. Why don't lemmings do simple research. Go to the Indianapolis or Fort Wayne Yellow Pages book. Look up lawyers. There are more lawyers than plumbers, mechanics and HVAC repairmen COMBINED. There is no money in horsebite cases. Want to enter a market where you are competing with young attorneys that are hungry, inexperienced and charging $100 to do a DUI case? All this plus incurring six figure debt? Go right ahead, but don't ask for sympathy or a bailout when your plan to be the next Atticus Finch crumbles.


    Yep. Just what this shit-ass state needs: another law school.

  5. I think your blog has lost focus. Sure Indiana isn't a T14, but alot of people from there do end up doing well.

    Why not focus on the third and fourth tier schools like the title of your blog implies? Atlanta's John Marshall comes to mind. They charge more than Indiana and are so far into the fourth tier, they can't even see the T14. Those kids are truly scam victims.

  6. I think it is good to show that the issue of greedy corruption is not simply limited to the third and fourth tier schools. That is obvious to many at this point, thanks to blogs like this one. When we look at the student loan disaster on a broader spectrum we see blood on many hands. In the non-law area of higher education, the top tier schools are doing some of the most serious damage to the lives of students through their useless, and exorbitantly expensive degree programs. As is pointed out here, this is becoming increasingly true as well in law, as the job market worsens for lawyers.

  7. I graduated from a similarly situated law school in 2004 (U. of Minnesota). Back then people from top 20 schools were scrambling to find any type of job they could get their hands on. The job market has been shit for decades. The thing is with merger mania in the 90s, corporate firms suddenly bumped up starting salaries to ridiculous levels. In what world do you pay someone $150K+ when they don't even know the basics of practice? What this did though was make law school a high risk high reward bet. And anyone that's been to law school can tell you every motherfucker thinks they're going to be top ten percent and law review. Everyone else is going to struggle, but not me. I'm special. My mother told me so. And so did my excellent grades in political science from Sacramento City College. Keep up this work. There are literally thousands of law grads each year that are never going to be hired as lawyers. Never. No shot. Some one needs to keep pointing this out for the newcomer.

  8. Anon 9:58--Actually, when you think about it, any school outside T14 (or T-whatever-number-you-care-to-choose) is third-tier, at least in terms of job prospects.

    But I can see your point. One could perhaps keeping schools like this one, Minnesota or Illinois open if tuition were lowered and its focus were shifted to train people to do public-service or other lower-paying areas of law. On the other hand, most other law schools should be shut down. They are simply putting more graduates into a market that will shrink for the foreseeable future.

  9. I think the duct tape on the rim of the bowl was supposed to keep people from opening this toilet.

    But someone did, and had a look at what is inside, and decided that it was a photo-opportunistic moment for sure.

    It's like an old timer told me once:

    "You don't know what's in that pickel barrel, until you get the lid off of it!"

    And like 10:38AM says in so many words, all the lemmings that think that "Hard Work" is the key to success in a law school and a spot on law review, are in for a rude awakening when they find out the pickle barrel, or the toilet bowl, is full of foul human treachery and waste.

  10. @11:00 AM:

    I respectfully disagree.

    You wrote:

    "One could perhaps keeping schools like this one, Minnesota or Illinois open if tuition were lowered and its focus were shifted to train people to do public-service or other lower-paying areas of law."

    Unlike your suggestion, I feel that is far more valuable to society if schools like Minnesota or Illinois continue to "Train people" to jump in front of speeding trains.

    Now where's that little o'l Colonel Harlan Sanders at?

  11. As someone who has been in this profession for over two decades, I couldn't help but feel saddened and helpless about America's future outlook after spending the last thirty minutes on a website called "Top Law Schools." The forums are littered with posts that contain inaccurate information about the legal profession. For example, I read one where the poster said he would wait until March 2012 to see if this school improves in the USNWR before deciding whether to apply. If only these lemmings understood that legal employers do not give a shit about the USNWR. We know what a top echelon school is and Indiana doesn't come to mind. I also saw some posts regarding post-graduate employment prospects and salaries. The consensus at top law schools' forum is that if you graduate in the top half of a "T-14" or top 10% of a T-50, you will get Biglaw, earning $160K to start. This is simply ignorant. Then others assume that Mid-law pays half of $160K, therefore, they start associates out at $80K. Again, this is completely wrong. Mid-law doesn't even look to hire entry levels out of law school, they look for laterals with at least 3-4 years of experience (preferably from Biglaw or DOJ). I also read some poor lout say that if all else fails, he will apply to the public defender's office or get a clerkship. I wonder how many Indiana law grads from the Class of 2011 secured FEDERAL clerkships. Can someone shed light on this? State clerkships are few, not as prestigious but also competitive. With all these States reporting budget problems, I have read that some judiciaries are cutting clerks from the employment ranks. See e.g.,

    I don't know if these kids have been drinking poisoned water but they sure are dumb. I am surprised the cliff hasn't converted into a landslide with so many lemmings going over every year into this putrid "profession."

  12. Let me take respectful issue with the use of the term "indenture" with respect to law school loans.
    Indentured servants were furnished with work by the bondholders; if there was no work, the bondholder was out of luck. This didn't happen often. Also, indentured servitude was typically limited to a term of years.
    In contrast, law students have to find their own work. If there is no work, the bond holder still gets paid ... or increases the amount of the bond by way of interest and late fees. Also there is no end to the servitude until the loan is paid; it may even survive death and be collected against a decease law student's estate.
    While relatively free of the physical abuse of indentured servitude, law students are otherwise worse off than indentured servitude.

  13. Why does the legal profession let USNWR tell us what is good and bad. It is all bad. Somehow USNWR legitimizes the lame ass JD education. Idiots getting excited because their school goes up four or five places. You should do a post on why we handed our balls to USNWR. USNWR does not know shit about quality. The bastards are just shuffling chairs on the Titanic.

    I wish I could travel back to 1880 and make sure Langdell never got to Harvard.

  14. 11:34AM here again.

    I went back to the "Top Law Schools'" website and after reading more tripe, I have come up with a top 10 list of misconceptions that are taken as gospel on that site:

    10) Paying sticker at a T-20 is a sound decision.
    9) If you strike out at OCI, firms are still looking for 3Ls to hire.
    8) If you bomb your first year grades, you can work hard, pick up your grades and still be hired from "3L OCI."
    7) If you strike out at OCI, you can still apply to DOJ or JAG since they are always looking for law grads.
    6) Firms look favorably on candidates that are on moot court or secondary and tertiary law journals, which can compensate for middling grades.
    5) Once the recession ends, demand for lawyers will soar, particularly Biglaw, where M&A work will pick up concomitantly with the economy.
    4) "If I finish near the top 1% of my class at my T2 law school, I have a better shot at Biglaw than an average T-14 grad."
    3) People that discourage others from going to law school are jealous or insecure.
    2) A law degree is still a prestigious credential, regardless of the school.
    1) Even at the sky high tuition rates, a law degree is a worthwhile investment because it is a portable and versatile achievement.

    Please feel free to add more to the list. Anyway, I was reading a long thread over at the Top Law Schools website about a kid who graduated from a TTT and then worked shitlaw for a few years before landing an associate position at Biglaw. Believe it or not, many posters believe this outcome is highly possible. Look, I am not saying that this scenario is impossible because I have seen it happen. However, where I have seen this happen, the candidate was connected with the firm or a client of the firm. If there is no nexus to the firm, there is no course from shitlaw to Biglaw. This is perhaps the biggest fallacy that they sell at that law school shill website. I cannot believe how many suckers believe the crap that is written on that site.

  15. rewinn, I couldn't have said it better myself.


    According to Law School Numbers, 90.3 percent of the Maurer Class of 2005 was employed within nine months of graduation. This was before the economic re-structuring started to fully set in this country.

    Tuition has definitely SKYROCKETED at this public toilet. In 2006-2007, in-state tuition was $15,784, whereas non-residents were charged $30,311 in tuition. In the span of five years, in-state tuition has increased by 71.3 percent. If you consider mandatory fees and books, for 2011-2012, then the increase is 89.6 percent.

    Non-resident tuition at the Univer$ity of Indiana Maurer Sewer of Law has “only” increased by 46.85% in that same time span. With mandatory fees and books thrown in, then the rate of increase, for out-of-state law students, would be 56.4 percent.

    On April 15, 2010, the morons and waterheads at U.S. “News” published an article entitled, “How to Get In: Indiana University Maurer School of Law.”

    “Another differentiating characteristic of the Maurer School of Law is an innovative first-year curriculum that calls on students to start creating the career path that is right for them. As part of this process, students assess and compare their skills and interests with those of effective lawyers. Armed with this information, our students are more likely to home in on career opportunities that will lead to long-term professional success.”

    Perhaps this tepidly explains why the commode does not provide decent or specific job placement data, on its website. After all, the students are in charge of their own outcomes. Those who have graduated from law school can confirm that the schools/diploma mills typically do not help most of their students with employment. The puff piece continued:

    “The scholarly reputation of the Maurer School of Law continues to grow because of the recent additions of distinguished faculty from law schools across the country in fields as diverse as intellectual property, global legal studies, and the federal judiciary. The school's Center on the Global Legal Profession and Center for Constitutional Democracy are the only ones of their kind in the United States.”

    Law firms and most non-legal employers do not give a damn about supposed centers for constitutional democracy. Firms would MUCH rather hire lawyers who have a clue about practicing law. Non-law employers might inquire about this tripe, but they don’t really care about such “intellectual pursuits.” They also seek those who can hit the ground running. Plus, as we all know, such companies tend to view JD job applicants suspiciously.

    From former Biglaw associate Will Meyerhofer, back on November 3, 2010:

    “For the record, a law degree is not “versatile.” Being a lawyer amounts to a strike against you if you ever decide to pursue another career.”

  17. I currently go to Maurer; they are extremely generous with scholarships. It seems many in my class have full OOS tuition waivers.

  18. @ 8:17, average student debt was more than $113,000, Bill Henderson.

  19. Is anyone familiar with this case (law student flunked out of St. Thomas, sued, then agreed to some kind of quiet settlement)?


    My name is Mike and I'm a 2L on academic probation in my third semester at St. Thomas and on the verge of flunking out.

  20. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  21. To the piece of garbage who posted today at 12:23 pm,

    "IP Information -

    Host name:
    Country: United States
    Country Code: US
    Region: PA
    City: Pittsburgh
    Latitude: 40.4344
    Longitude: -80.0248

    OrgName: University of Pittsburgh
    OrgId: UNIVER-9
    Address: 728 Cathedral of Learning
    Address: Fifth and Bigelow
    City: Pittsburgh
    StateProv: PA
    PostalCode: 15260
    Country: US
    RegDate: 1988-05-18
    Updated: 2006-09-07

    How are you doing, Doug? Did you get kicked out of the Florida TTT that you were attending, cockroach?!?! Look, you are still accessing this site, from the University of Pittsburgh. Get a job, loser bitch.

    Visitor detail
    IP address:
    IP lookup: ARIN / RIPE
    Unique ID: 3477199714
    First visit: Tue Nov 1 2011 10:06am
    Visits: 3
    Language: English
    Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Operating system: Windows 7
    Web browser: Firefox 8.0
    Resolution: 1024x600
    Javascript: Enabled

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Dec 5 2011 12:20pm 4 actions 3m 19s
    Nov 16 2011 12:38pm 1 action 10s

  22. Brutal way to deal with trolls man. I'm glad you handle them this way.

  23. Check out the IU Law's "Center for Constitutional Democracy."


    Its stated mission: "To support the work of foreign reformers to bring constitutionalism and the rule of law to new and struggling democracies by providing legal analysis, training, scholarship, and consultation."

    Then you click on individual projects in Burma and Vietnam, and you get more of this noble, vague and BS rhetoric about spreading "constitutionalism" to the natives.

    Basically, this "Center" looks like a gravy train for law professors and hangers-on, with the "gravy" supplied by debt incurred by financially strapped students in the hope and expectation that they would be trained to practice law.

    Even if this "Center" had any practical merit, which it seems not to, it ought to be run by the politial science department of some University, not by a law school.

  24. I worked with a woman from IU for a few years at an east coast firm. She ultimately went back to Indiana. My feeling - do not attend this school unless you are from Indiana or want to stay in the general area. I suspect there might be a market for IU grads in Chicago, but that's about it. If you want to practice on the east or west coasts, do not go to this school. I don't care that it is a high ranked school. If you can't get into a top 14 school, then go to the best local school in the city where you want to practice. Geography means a lot in law. People in NYC generally don't hire republican idiots from Indiana.

  25. 749 is right. Even top 5 spots at this school will not be good enough for NY biglaw. Even Seattle, LA and Houston won't take you. They have top law schools in those areas. Why hire someone from a midwest school?


    According to a June 15, 2011 Associated Press article, Lapre was indicted by a federal grand jury in Phoenix, Arizona, on June 8, 2011, on accusations of running a nationwide scheme to sell worthless Internet businesses. Federal prosecutors accused Lapre of bilking more than 220,000 victims out of nearly $52 million. He was charged with 41 counts of conspiracy, mail fraud, wire fraud, promotional money laundering, and transactional money laundering.


    Tell me what the difference is between Don Lapre and the law schools??

    It seems one is deemed a legal scam under the guise of education where the other is considered illegal fraud.

    I am not condoning what Lapre did. I just find it interesting. There is no way any of his victims were ruined for life vs. what happens to the average law student after graduation.

    Again, interesting.


    “The Indiana Journal of Global Legal Studies publishes articles by distinguished legal scholars focusing on issues of globalization and international law. Each issue generally contains articles by authors from many different countries. Select students are invited to join the staff during the summer following their first year of law school. Invitations are extended based on first-year academic performance and a writing competition that takes place at the end of the first year. Students edit and proofread articles, and verify the accuracy and form of cited sources. The journal also publishes several student-written articles.”

    As a student of this toilet, you can edit and proofread articles, and look up the validity of citations for entries to the Indiana Journal of Global Legal Studies! Your parents will be so proud of you, and women will throw their moist panties at you. [Disclaimer: Actually, nobody will really care about your journal “experience.”]

    If this doesn’t suit you, perhaps you could become a student editor of the world-renowned Indiana Journal of Law and Social Equality. Take a look at the description:

    “This online journal was established in May 2011 and will publish its first issue in the spring of 2012. The purpose of the Journal is to serve as an interdisciplinary academic forum for scholars, practitioners, policy-makers, and students to contribute to society's understanding of legal and policy issues concerning race, religion, gender, and class.

    Membership in the Journal consists of second- and third-year students who have exhibited a demonstrated commitment to social equality. Preference will be given to students who have educational experience in a relevant discipline and employment or volunteer experience in any organization committed to or involved in advancing social equality.”

    The Journal was founded by Jalil Dozier, JD'11, and Alex Simpson, JD'11. The Journal's co-convenors are Renee Turner and Jheremy Perkins. Prof. Julia Lamber is the faculty advisor.”

    Apparently, this journal has not published its first issue. As such, you will have the unique opportunity to be on the ground floor of this brilliant concept. After all, how many student-run, academic journals are devoted to “social justice” or social equality?!?! If you want to work for low-paid, non-profits, then what better way to show these employers that you are serious about social change and equality - than by editing articles on this online forum?!

    There is no need to incur an additional $115K or more, for a chance to work for equality. By the way, if you are past the midway point of your first semester - at law school - and you do not yet understand or realize that legal systems do not give a damn about poor people, then you likely have a mental deficiency. Keep in mind that “the law” itself is a human construct. Legal frameworks and structures were designed by the wealthy - and the minions - to legitimize social, financial and political inequality. Apparently, those pigs figured out that religious justifications would not always satisfy the general population. Legal systems ostensibly serve the public, or some notion of “justice.” In reality, they protect the wealthy and powerful. But have fun on this journal, anyway!

  28. Note to law students:

    While being able to list law review on your resume is still a feather in your cap, participating in a BS "Journal of Law and This-or-That" does not matter. In fact, its presence on your resume will have a peculiar stink of somebody who is so sheltered by academia that he or she thinks that legal employers care more about pseudo-scholarship than ability to represent clients. (and non-law employers hate your degree, journal experience or not).

    When you apply for a law job, you may well be asked for a writing sample. And the last think your potential employer wants to see is your student note in the "Indiana Journal of Global Legal Studies." What the employer wants to see is an appellate brief or a complicated motion, complaint, or memo.

  29. ^So what you're saying is legal employers don't give a shit about secondary law journals? Are you with a law firm and do the hiring managers really laugh when they see this on a resume or are you being over the top?

  30. Wow, what a revelation, Nancy!

    Law schools are expensive. Jobs are scarce. It's probably not worth it to go to law school.

    It just becomes more and more convincing the more you post the same thing and the more pictures of turds you post.

    Keep up the great, and more importantly, ORIGINAL and NON-REDUNDANT work you're doing!

  31. Keep up your obsession with this blog, cockroach. By the way, how did that Florida TTT "legal education" work out for you, moron?!

    Several months ago, you claimed that you graduated from law school in May, and already had a job with the U.S. Treasury Department. However, you left Pittsburgh to go to law school in the south. Now you are back in Pittsburgh.

    “Anonymous said...
    As I've said...I did not provide accurate details to protect my identity, so I was not a 1L, which should have been obvious at the time if you'd have paid attention.

    Anyway, the Fed Agency is the Treasury Dept.

    Doesn't matter to me if you believe it, I'm just saying it isn't impossible to find a job. The feds ARE hiring, but you have to be willing to relocate and count on starting at the bottom..

    June 26, 2011 6:09 AM”

    Nine minutes later, the pussy posted the following nonsense:

    “Anonymous said...
    BTW, regarding JJD: you're welcome!

    June 26, 2011 6:18 AM”

    I asked JJD about this, and she said that she decided to stop blogging because she was more concerned with her job. In her words, she bitch-slapped you and taught you a lesson.

    This is the old RSS feed, for the cockroach’s final blog entry:


    The fun is over, for now, but school is starting anyhow. A lot was false, but bits were true, but must was just to have fun with…”

    IN SUM, YOU ARE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, DOUG. By the way, how did you like that site I re-directed you to, when I banned your IP, after you posted additional lies from the University of Pittsburgh?!?!

  32. ^

    Are you going to post the same shit daily? I have read your palaver yesterday. Why would not you pull the dick out of your mouth and spit out pubic hair. Maybe then you can speak out loud and clear.

  33. ^

    The above was posted for this amateur cocksucker Doug.

  34. 214..Don Lapre is actually less of a criminal then law schools in that he can rip you out of money from his one bedroom apartment while law schools need a big law center with lots of pictures to convince victims its legit.

    Lapre is a stud!! He was around getting and spending more money then Madoff back in the day when I was calling Jose Canseco on a 900 line he probably set up. The money I spent on calling Jose and Milli Vanilli made law school seem like a bargain to me.

  35. Hello Doug. How are you doing? Did you forget to take your medication again?!

    Now, the troll and liar is using a MegaPath Networks, Inc. account. The supplier appears to be Hurricane Electric Internet Services.

    From analytics:

    Visitor detail
    IP address:
    IP lookup: ARIN / RIPE
    Unique ID: 3477199714
    First visit: Tue Nov 1 2011 10:06am
    Visits: 4
    Language: English
    Location: Costa Mesa, CA, USA
    Operating system: Windows 7
    Web browser: Firefox 8.0
    Resolution: 1024x600
    Javascript: Enabled

    Visits by this user in the last 7 days

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Dec 6 2011 1:48pm 2 actions 9s
    Dec 6 2011 12:29pm 4 actions 2m 3s
    Dec 5 2011 12:20pm 4 actions 3m 19s

    Doug, we can all see that the Unique ID remains the same as yesterday, i.e. 3477199714. The operating system is Windows 7, the browser is Firefox 8.0, and the resolution is 1024*600.

    Did the Treasury Department already fire you? (We all know that this federal agency would never hire someone who is a committed stalker.) To be fair, law schools do not usually attract such mentally-unhinged individuals such as Doug. Type A personalities tend to flock towards law school, but few become obsessive nutjobs.

  36. Nando is apparently making his way through the Big Ten.

  37. Doug is back, eh? I remember this guy. And I don't even check this blog out too often. I might visit it daily for weeks at a time and then not check back here for months.

    Dougie, Nando nailed you down as a liar. You know it's true and so does anyone else that's seen you on this blog. So go enjoy your little Treasury Dept. job (my ass) and gain some semblance of a life. It's for your own good. Even if you can't stand nando for exposing you as a lying piece of shit, do something else. For your own good.

  38. Some rules of thumb of life. Even the troll can’t refute the following.

    Listen up because this might be the best advice you ever saw on this blog and I'm giving it away for free.

    1. You generally marry someone in your social class.

    Explanation: So…if you think you're gonna attract a wealthy woman by hitting the gym non-stop and getting shredded like a caesar salad, think again. She might let you eat her pussy or bang her when her husband's not around. If you’re lucky, she might even occasionally go down on you. But that's it. you are not getting her money. Same thing in college. A rich girl might date an athlete or nice guy from humble beginnings. But don’t plan on it working out, unless you have NFL potential or win the lottery. You think daddy wants his daughter dating or marrying a poor person. Or god forbid a black guy? How’s he gonna take you to the country club, opera or make the rounds with other rich families? You can’t mix with those poor people and produce children. It’s not the same pedigree. This is how rich people think. I’m not making this shit up. I wish I was.

    2. Rich kids have connections so going to college is merely a rite of passage.

    Explanation: You see plenty of rich kids go to expensive liberal arts colleges, earn a degree in basketweaving or political science and come out workign for daddy's firm or some other such job their parents lined up for them. These kids can watch cartoons all day long, experiment with a bunch of drugs, sleep with masses of scumbags, it doesn't matter. You went to school with these assholes. You know their kind. These were the insufferable pricks that went skiing and on long road trips almost every weekend, while you, poor bastard by birth that you are, studied your ass off. At least to a large degree, that is. They played with Frisbees and went to all the football games. You didn’t.

    (part i of ii)

  39. 3. Connected people don't need fucking graduate degrees. You ever notice that?

    Explanation: I see the well-off kids I went to school with and where they work after college. They immediately land sweet jobs with good pay, room for advancement. Even the ones working at non-profits have the luxury of working for chump change. And by chump change, I mean making $40K. But then you notice something kind of strange. These fuckers soon become managers and directors. They’re in charge of budgets and staff. This helps them later on when they may want to move on to a better position somewhere else. And you’re like What the fuck! Yes, you poor person that you are, have a Master’s or PhD or a law diploma and you’re never gonna be a manager. Even if you suck several influential assholes off. You could be the smartest person in the room. With 40 IQ points to spare. My guess is many of the people that come on this blog are often the smartest guy or girl in the room. Doesn’t fucking matter. You didn’t go to boarding school or you have the wrong family name. Sucks to be you or me.

    4. The well-off don’t need to work hard or network their asses off.

    Explanation: Poor people and middle class people need to network. Poor people need to ‘work hard.’ Build up their resumes and draft excellent cover letters. Rich people don’t. I’ve seen with my own eyes former wealthy classmates with serious drug problems now running youth programs. One girl downed so much cough syrup and pills one night, they had to pump her stomach. She was in the dorm room across from mine. She’s now a soccer mom driving a Range Rover. And that’s not her primary vehicle. Her husband makes easily deep six figures and they live in a $600,000 house. Do you see well-off men and women scrounging to find any job they can get their hands on? Shining their shoes, getting all anxious for the interview? Hell no. Because those rich fuckers simply make a phone call to a friend or family member who then call in a favor. Bam. It’s just about that simple. Now compare this to your sorry life.

    You are where you’re born for the most part. Rich people have plenty of problems too. But they can go to counseling and talk about their problems. They also don’t feel the social stigma of seeing a shrink like poor people do. If Johnny gets a DWI and assaults a cop, mommy can get him the best lawyer and therapists money can buy. Boom. Problem solved. Until Johnny fucks up again that is. I sometimes look up old classmates on Facebook or Pipl. Or Google them. The well-off kids are now project managers and supervisors and directors. They own 3 star restaurants or own taverns at popular resorts. In their late 20s and early 30s. Who has that kind of juice? You know the answer. If you don’t, then you’re literally retarded. I’ve run into some of them at grocery stores. Some of them are divorced or unmarried but their lives are still better than most people I know.
    The well-off kids just went from driving their mother’s Mercedes to now driving their own luxury car around town. To the important business meetings. To pick up little Emily and Jason from daycare. To the grocery store. To the opening of the new museum or art exhibit or fancy trendy restaurant. To get their nails and hair done. To the gym so hubby doesn’t scarf down his hot secretary’s bush.

  40. 846, 854: That is a lot of words to make the point that rich people have the advantage of social connections on top of everything that money can buy. What is your next blinding revelation?

  41. 854 here. The blog header mentioned something about educating wannabe law students. Believe it or not, lots of college students are idiots. They think if they work really hard, they're gonna make it. Why the fuck do you think there are so many poor bastards in grad school? Or pushing out a doctoral thesis in US history? So yes the poor kids know they're competing on an uneven playing field. But they don’t even know that they're not even in the same arena. If you want to be really honest, they’re in the minor leagues in comparison. Another point of my long rant (which was lost on you) is that a well-off person with a BA in art history is usually way better off than some poor schlub with a JD. Even someone with law review under their belt. The former don;t need to spend 7 years in school. Or take out a bunch of student loans. They also don't need to create connections. They already have 'em. In spades. Shit, those relationships were forged by their influential parents and grandparents.

  42. 846 854 you are right on but your statements fully explain why these kids(myself included) will go to a third tier crapper and pay out tons of jack for a chance to get rich.

    Let me give you an example. I would call myself middle class not poor. I went to a small liberal arts college 20 years ago. I met a girl right off the bat. Hot rich all that shit. Mind banging sex(we were both virgins when we met) that to this day has not been matched. I went to the school because I got one of those scholarships and she ended up there because she fucked around in high school had shitty grades and lived off daddies money. I am still surprised once I knew who her daddy was how she didnt end up at a better school but it didnt matter although at the time I didnt understand why.

    Long story short, I wanted to move up a social class and tried to work hard bust my ass and do what I needed to do to keep her knowing full well the rich boys and older men all wanted her. Fast forward and I graduate etc but pulled a Chris Washburn on the LSATs leaving me little options but a 3T law school that no one had heard of and where I didnt want to go. After four years basically living together on a small college campus, the relationship began to flounder for whatever reason that can be analyzed with my therapist should I get one. I am in love and bitter so I just say I am going to be as rich as I can as a lawyer and show her snobby ass that I am worthy of her.

    part 1

  43. part two..

    fast forward 20 years and I consider myself a successful lawyer(kids do not go to law school unless you meet the parameters outlined in this blog) as despite my shitty school and bad grades I got a job and learned and opened my own office. I have improved my financial situation beyond even what the girl and her father ever thought I would even with all the potential they saw in me when we were in college.

    Guess what lemmings? While I was trying to be Mr. Ill Show Em, she was an art history major, fucked up in grad school and while I was finshing law school, broke, school loans, starting slow wondering if I was destined to live in a trailer, she was working in primo jobs that daddy or some other rich connection helped her land. By this time the relationship was over and yes I was in love and it was more then just about me moving up a class etc.

    We eventually stopped talking severed all ties etc but with Facebook, mutual friends, you know what people do. She didnt have to do anything and she had plenty of money, nice car, yet deep down she didnt achieve shit.

    That is why the poster I am responding to is correct. I feel like I have done well, showed the rich girl and her daddy that I was worthy etc yet buy the time you pay your debt and do well, shes married off to some other rich douchebag. Evan as successful as I might think I am all on my own, I dont have her connections or wealth, none of which she earned.

    There are plenty of guys like me who despite the stupidity of it, especially at todays prices and job market, will take out huge loans to go to shitty law schools for the chance, no matter how tiny, to get a job that could get us rich to move us up a social class. Whether its for a girl we love who we know her father thinks we cant live up to their gifted status or just not wanting to be a manager at Walmart etc, we do it. If it fails, like it does for most, who cares, you still marry a girl in your low level social class.

    I am still amazed that as a young man, I spent 7 years fully invested in someone I loved and also saw as a way to better myself, and now I dont even talk to that person. Now that I am married and have my own daughters, I wonder how I will handle who they bring home.

    Law is a shitty profession and I found the previous poster very insightful. There are exceptions to everything, but for the most part, the information is clear, but that carrot that law school is for so many of us is not going anywhere but I would like to think in todays world at 22, no matter how good the sex was or how much I loved someone, I wouldnt take out huge loans to likely fail at something just so I can move up in social class.

  44. You can move up a social class financially but it's nearly impossible to move up culturally. Even if you make on your own efforts and are a self-made man or woman, the old money snobs will still thumb their noses at you. Despite the fact that you earned your place while they just inherited theirs. They went to the boarding school and are cultured and you, poor bastard, are late to the game. It's not your fault your parents were poor or lower middle class. But the wealthy will hold it against you anyway. They're really nice like that.

    The point is you shouldn't try to make inroads at all costs. I've seen people make the transition and they are putting up a facade. Or they become an entirely different person (e.g. a self absorbed asshole). Rich people think differently than everyone else. We all put ourselves and our families first. I don't care what anybody says. But the rich take it to a whole nother level. Everything's an investment. Boarding school. Little league soccer. A piano. Piano lessons. Opera season tickets. A big house. Summer camp. Golf lessons. This pays off later when business deals are made on the golf course. You aren't in on the deal but you will be the one carrying all of his shit in a box and being escorted out of the building with the rest of your coworkers by security after it goes down. College really is an investment to them. Not for you. Their kids are gonna get that credential just to show that they belong to the club. Even if it means they majored in home economics from Bryn Mawr while jumping from bed to bed and doing coke. Think of the women's colleges from before the 1950s. Those girls went to school to become further aculturated. I'm sure many were extremely intelligent. They hardly used their degrees though. But they became wives to wealthy men. And that was the main purpose of writing those tuition checks in the first place. Their job became to look nice, take the kids to the park, keep up appaerances, read to them and bathe them, and make sure not to miss their hair appointment. And to host social events, charity fundraisers and all that jazz. Here's another example of the investment mentality. Political contributions are an investment. The average Joe might donate $100 if he likes a candidate's message. A rich cocksucker donating $25,000 or $100,000 is doing it because, well you know what he wants. Another tax break or favorable business deal. Donating to the opera or local university is another way of investing. It cements the family name in the community and shows everyone that your family is high-minded, philanthropic and better than everyone else. Plus, when rich grandpa dies won't having a business school or scholarship fund or academic chair named after him be a proper way to remember him?

  45. I should stop reading this blog. The last few comments have opened up an emotional pandora's box for me. Twenty years ago, I was engaged to a European countess. She was beautiful, sophisticated, educated at Oxford and came from nobility. I, of course, was looked down by her family. As a wise man once told me, to marry into class you must have the following: 1) Wealth; 2) Family Name; and, 3) Education. YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL 3. I had the education, upper middle class (not wealthy) but no family name (e.g., Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, etc.). Before my fiancee broke up with me, we had a discussion. She told me I was half the ideal man. I didn't know what she was talking about (love blinds you) but after considering what the wise man told me, I understood sometime later. A law degree will not make you a better candidate to marry up, especially with the average debt load many law grads carry. So, if you had any ideas to marry up, a law degree actually hurts you, unless you are wealthy and are a Rothschild. So if all you have is a law degree without wealth and a name, you are 0 for 3--YOU'RE OUT.

    NYC Hiring Partner

  46. Don Lapre committed suicide on 10/2/11 while in police custody:

    Don Lapre is/was less scummy than the law school scam.

  47. well said NYC. Without the name or wealth from the family, by the time you create it or something close 20 years later, shes already married off and you dont look like you did when you were 22 and thought love conqured all. Your success, delayed at best because of a legal career and at worst no success at all for most in todays world limits you so much. You are behing her and her male counterparts even if they screw up and fail out of school or somehow manage to take a BA in art history and within a few years are making 100k at some job procured by their daddys connections.

    What sucks is that no matter what odds you overcome to standout and get rich, it means nothing because you see this rich boarding school type girl you loved goof off, achieve nothing, yet gets jobs easier, has her choice of men despite being a hot and cold bitch, and ultimately with little courtship she marries a guy who cant hold your jock and has achieved nothing on his own but who has that name and family support to give him an edge you will likely never have especially while she is single and you are still young.

    Bitterness and anger can be put in a box, but emotions are easily raised for many of us as no amount of money overcomes our social failures. I basically went to a shit law school and busted my ass trying to build a firm to impress a girl who I was never able to close the deal with and to show her father I could get rich and appear a certain way even though I no longer even talked to or interacted with them. Fucked up I know but we cant control our emotions at 20 like we can at 40.

    I understand more now, but I hope I raise my daughters to handle things better with boys who may not have the money I want my daughters husbands to have all without telling them its ok to marry scum.

    Not understanding this whole process is what will cause a limitless amount of young hard working men to sign up for shit law schools and pay the crazy tuition that keeps increasing. By the time you figure out its all a joke, your either broke for life or none of it matters because you didnt get the social result you expected because you became a lawyer.

  48. In my 20s, I thought love conquered all. I was wrong. Many kids in their 20s believe wholeheartedly that a law degree will bring them instant prestige, status and wealth. These kids are very much mistaken. Will they listen to a seasoned veteran who has lived through it? They are too set in their ways to listen to reason. This is part of the "lemming phenomenon." Every year they keep jamming into law school cesspools because the idea is reinforced in college that a law degree will cure the problem of future uncertainty. Instead of providing a cure, it will create more problems for them.

  49. Great points. If you aren't from the right family or social class you can bust your ass in school. Earn all the degrees you want. But you'll be playing catch up. And you'll probably never catch up. Even if you do chances are you'll be a 50 year old man by then. That's a late stage in the life cycle to say Fuck you. I'm worthy of you now.

  50. Wouldn't it be great if the entire US population came to regard Law School as a complete FUCKING SCAM, and the legal profession as something only open to the priveleged, or people with the right connections.

    Enrollment for Law School would drop off a cliff, and many redundant Law Schools would be forced to close down after 1 or 2 years.

    And the Yellow Pages in every USA phonebook would get a lot thinner. (Figure it out)

  51. Bashing Indiana? Really?

  52. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  53. ^Indiana is a shithole. A regional shithole. Get over it cocksucker.

  54. I'm waiting for my last final to begin (family law) and the girls are chirping gleefully about a female proefessor who: (1) drives a Ferrari; (2) which bears a vanity plate reading "lawprof"; and (3) wears prohibitively expensive sunglasses.


    The only thing I hate more than academia itself is law school.

  55. I am very saddened and touched by anon's story.
    I have to make 2 points:

    1. why did you go to law school simply for the sake of "moving up" the thing called the social ladder? Were you not at least somewhat interested in law and somewhat interested in becoming a professional? It's a lot better than working as a manager at walmart.

    2. The fact that you are accomplished should make you feel all the more proud than if you were born rich and remain unaccomplished. What's so good about the hot and cold bitch? You should thank her, though - if not for her, you would not have accomplished so much.

    just my 2cents

  56. Maybe it's just me, but I think this blog "jumped the shark" when it ran out of true diploma mills to legitimately bitch about. In all honesty, some of the schools that have been covered recently (IU, Illinois, OSU, Wake) are solid regional schools with solid regional job placement. While these schools do not tee you up for a position at Jones Day or Skadden like a T14 school can, that's not necessarily their purpose.

    Contrary to much of the basement blogger pontification that exists on many blawgs, the legal services industry STILL does exist, and schools such as IU, etc. do a good job of preparing future lawyers for regional job placement. If you feel that not getting a big law position coming out of law school will mean that your law school experience was a scam or mistake, then, by all means, I would advise you not to go to law school. The probability of landing one of those jobs is slim, even from some of the best schools in the country. If, however, you actually know what being an attorney entails, you want to become an attorney, and you know geographically where you want to practice, then attending a strong regional school is not a bad idea at all. If that means that you take on debt, then you need to be aware that you may not be able to pay that debt off in one year with a mid-law job. That said, it's an investment in an education that will place you in a solid career.

    Note: Don't take this to mean advocate that someone should attend just any old law school. There are real dangers in moving out of T1, but schools in the 20-50 range generally truly do have strong regional placement.

  57. This school sent me a ton of mail and I never even considered them when I registered with the LSAC. The school even waived my application fees. I filled that in and mailed it back. My numbers weren't great. And of course I didn't get in to the school. Afterward I thought it was a pointless exercise.Forum Link Building servicebuild your own website

  58. As a foreigner, a Wonton soup, who had been attended IUB law school one year for its master program, out-of-state tuition, back then, was already crazy, somewhere around 35k (hope my memory is still reliable). Unfortunately, language barrier, undoubtedly, hinders me from articulating my thoughts. It was a wonderful experience towards life experience perspective, but not a helpful tool towards career perspective. Lemming phenomenon, not only suit for Americans, but also overseas students. Anyway, you people's comments open my eyes.

  59. I graduated from that shithole in 2012 and can verify the truth of this piece. Moreover, Lauren Robel is not only incompetent with little to no true legal experience, but also a devious hypocrite who should be de-barred for her actions.She is about as noble as the lack of hair growth on her head.


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