Wednesday, January 4, 2012

Sickening Second Tier Stench Pile: University of Cincinnati College of Law


http://www.law.uc.edu/prospective-students/financial-aid/tuition-and-budget-information

Tuition: Ohio residents attending this garbage pit, on a full-time basis, will pay $22,204 in tuition - for the 2011-2012 school year. Full-time law students - from several Northern Kentucky counties, and using the Graduate Metro Rate - will “only” be charged $22,444 in tuition, for the current academic year. Non-resident, full-time law students at the Univer$iTTy of CincinnaTTi will be slapped down with a tuition bill of $38,720 - for 2011-2012.

Total Cost of Attendance: The festering dung heap estimates that living expenses will add another $18,336 to the big-ass tab. Of course, the rats are only counting nine-month living expenses. Seeing that law students face twelve month costs, this would amount to $23,935.

Applying this figure, resident full-time law students will have a total COA of $46,139 - for 2011-2012- while GMR, full-time students will be looking at a COA of $46,379. However, the estimated COA - for the current school year - for out-of-state law students attending this school on a full-time basis totals $62,655. Who says that a “legal education” isn’t a wise investment?!?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+3

Ranking: Based on the prohibitive cost of attendance, this school must have an excellent reputation, correct?!?! If you feel that way, then you should leave the room for a minute. You will notice that Bob Morse and U.S. “News” & World Report rank the University of Cincinnati Commode of Law as the 61st greatest, most mesmerizing law school in the United States. The trash pile shares this distinction with the following five dung pits: Case Western Reserve University, Georgia State, Chicago-Kent, Seton Hall, and TTemple.

http://www.law.uc.edu/prospective-students/admissions/employment-statistics-class-2009

Supposed Employment and Starting Salary Statistics: The toilet claims that 96% of its Class of 2009 was employed, within nine months of graduation. Take a look at the fecal matter that the school deposited on its web site:

“Since 2001, Ohio has been one of the top 10 states for entry level employment. 96% of the Class of 2009, known to be seeking, were employed or enrolled in a full-time degree program within 9 months of graduation. An office of attorneys with over 15 years of collective practical experience assists students individually with career placement.

The overall median salary was $80,000 for those reporting salary information. Similarly the median salary for those entering private practice was $115,000.”

Does the school realize that law students are not exactly interested in working in dead-end, low-paid positions?!?! NALP and the ABA consider licensed attorneys “employed” if they are selling insurance or tending bar. However, who the hell goes to law school with the intent for such a TTT outcome?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+7

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Univer$iTTy of CincinnaTTi’s JD Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $58,455. Furthermore, 89 percent of this commode’s particular class took on such foul debt. This amount does not take undergraduate debt into account.

http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/higher-ed

Faculty and Administrator Salary Info: Let’s head to the Buckeye Institute's database, to see how well the “professors” are doing, in comparison to the debt-soaked students. Louis D. Bilionis, dean and “Nippert professor of law,” made $257,500 in base salary - for 2011. Dean emeritus Joseph P. Tomain took in $243,688 in base salary, for 2011. That is a nice arrangement, huh?!?! Paul Caron, “Charles Hartsock professor of law” and author of TaxProf Blog, received $191,209 in base compensation, for 2011 whereas Michael E. Solimine, “Donald P. Klekamp professor of law,” raked in $166,389 in base pay, for the same year.

On February 2, 2010, the Global Observatory blog featured a piece on this cesspool, under the label “Travesty: A Law School That Wants its Students to Save Money.” Here is an excerpt:

http://www.theglobalobservatory.com/2010/02/travesty-a-law-school-that-wants-its-students-to-save-money/

“The University of Cincinatti (sic) School of Law, a second tier public institution, is apparently quite desperate to recruit high caliber students. According to an email sent out a short while back, the admissions office is offering tips on obtaining residency status and saving money…”

Conclusion: The University of Cincinnati Sewer of Law is a grossly overpriced, low-ranked pile of garbage. The state of Ohio is home to nine ABA-accredited law schools. The general area is referred to as the rustbelt, for a reason. Drive through the region, and count the number of condemned, abandoned factories - and boarded-up homes and small businesses. If people are not gainfully employed, how in the hell will they be able to afford the services of a lawyer?! You may have your heart set on being an attorney, but you need to rely on your gray matter - in making this decision. Ask yourself if giving up three years of your life to learn “legal theory” - and taking on an additional $60K-$80K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - is the best choice, for your financial future. If you are employed at a decent job, then do not even consider attending law school - let alone a middling, trifling one located in an economic dead zone.

44 comments:

  1. Congrats, TTR!

    Now thankfully, mercifully, your tour in Ohio is coming to a close . . . right?

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  2. Nine schools is a shitload. And this guy is right. The job market is terrible in that state.

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  3. Hey negative Nando,

    How come it's okay for you to go to law school but you're talking others out of going? I came across this blog the other day.
    Some of the information is good but some of it is just extremely negative. I've taken the LSAT once but I only scored a 153. I'm planning on taking it again in spring. What advice do you have that's constructive for those of us that aren't completely filled with hate at the law schools?

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  4. Hey 11:26 AM

    I have some advice for you. Stop being a ****ing Lemming.

    Hey, you want to go and fuck up your life? Go for it. You don't believe Nando? Fine.

    In 3 years, remember what you wrote here and that you were warned. More than warned. And never, ever complain about your situation in life after law school because you were warned and chose to ignore sage advice.

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  5. I'm an unemployed contract attorney in Ohio. Believe me, the Buckeye State's job market (legal and non legal jobs alike)is every bit as awful as it is depicted on Third Tier reality and elsewhere. There is no reason--none--for there to nine law schools in this sate. It's obscene.

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  6. I'm an unemployed contract attorney in Ohio. Believe me, the Buckeye State's job market (legal and non legal jobs alike) is every bit as awful as it is depicted on Third Tier Reality and elsewhere. There is no reason--none at all--for there to be nine law schools in this economically depressed state. It's obscene.

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  7. http://www.examiner.com/road-trip-travel-in-cincinnati/the-original-kfc-sanders-caf-corbin-ky

    It’s ‘bout gotdamn muthafuckin’ time meh and mah Kentucky peeps gets something ‘n retoyn fo’ mah sonuvabasterin’ bitchin’ contributions to the fuckin’ area. Don’t be hatin’ on that Graduate Metro GMR thingy. Weez earned dat shit.

    ‘Corbin, Kentucky, just 2 1/2 hours south of Cincinnati, is the birthplace of an American institution, Kentucky Fried Chicken. It was in this small town that Harland Sanders, better known as Colonel Sanders, first opened the Sanders Café in 1937.’

    Hell yeah-ay! That's what I be talkin' 'bout!

    ‘Soon after opening the café, Sanders realized that his fried chicken was by far the most popular item on the menu. It was his combination of the now famous 'eleven herbs and spices' that made his chicken a town favorite and would make Harland Sanders and Kentucky Fried Chicken household names.’

    I once got a handjob, 'n exchange fer givin’ this sweet young thang a bucket o’ ‘riginal recipe chickins. I tried to taste her 11 hoybs 'n spices 'n shit but I done damn brok-ed my gotdayem hip earlier dat fuckin' year.

    ‘It was not until his original café was destroyed by fire, then rebuilt in 1939, that Sanders first started to franchise his secret recipe. It was through these franchises that Kentucky Fried Chicken has exploded into the fast food giant that is now known world wide.’

    How ya like meh now, McDonalds? Burger King? POpeyes? Fuck y’all.

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  8. Hey 11:26,

    You sound arrogant and stupid enough to fit in really well in the law school crowd.

    Why would not you buy my T14 law diploma? I do not need it. Clients never ask for it, and the Bar knows I have it. I am ready to sell it to you for a half of the price you are going to pay to a TTTT that will accept you with your 153 LSAT score. We will bleach my name off the diploma and put yours on it. A real deal, my man.

    Of course, if you like to be sadomized for the next three years by so-called "law professors" and for the rest of your life by Sallie Mae, go right ahead, my man, and get your own law skool education. After all, you might enjoy forced anal sex and you might enjoy your asshole to be opened up winder than a basketball loop.

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  9. @ Jan. 4, 11:26 AM

    Are you going to take out student loans?

    ReplyDelete
  10. I find the toilet seat featured on this blog post to be a metaphor of most law student's careers. The seat is shit stained, corroded, unsightly and barely functional, if not, for a piece of a well placed duct tape.

    I have family and an old college friend who lives in Ohio. They describe it as a third world country cesspool in the middle of America. In Columbus alone, there are blocks of properties that are vacant with foreclosure signs all over. There are empty buildings downtown, reminscent of a scene from the movie "I am Legend." Now why would an impressionable college grad want to spend three years at any law school in Ohio to graduate into one of the most dismal economies in this nation? Surely no Ohio law school has a national reputation? The Jon Lovitz School of Law? Come on. These are regional schools at best. Look at the region around you. The opulence is gone. Like the toilet seat in this post, no one is going to even sit on you to take a crap. I suppose the silver linning on the this State is that if you have no job and Sallie Mae is hunting you down, you have your squatter's pick on which boarded up house to take up residence in.

    11:26, I pray to God that you do go to law school so you can look back on your post three years from now and say what a dumb fuck you are/were.

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  11. "The overall median salary was $80,000 for those reporting salary information. Similarly the median salary for those entering private practice was $115,000.”

    The diabolical thing about such "info" is that the kids assume that it is exaggerated, discount it in their minds by maybe 30 percent, and overlook the all-important phrase "for those reporting salary information." They then figure that law school would be a reasonable investment even if they have to start their legal career at 56K or thereabouts.

    In fact, the info is not simply exaggerated--it is outright filthy lies, with the same relationship to reality as Madoff's statements to investors.

    As Professor Campos has argued, only about 50 percent of grads from solid first-tier state schools like the University of Colorado and the University of Minnesota land full-time law jobs. Who can doubt that prospects for grads of a dump like the University of Cincinnati are significantly worse?

    Question: What is the legal profession's median starting salary for an entry level lawyer with a University of Cincinnati law degree, circa 2010 or 2011? In all likelihood, the true answer to that question is ZERO DOLLARS.

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  12. Mr. 153 LSAT. I too, will sell you my law degree. The degree is from a first tier law school. My LSAT score was 171. Heck, I will let you assume my identity for a small fee, that way you will have a top ranked law degree and bar admission. What do you say?

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  13. Nando,

    Here is a new bone for you to chew on...if you want arrogant and vapid, look no further than ABA's William Robinson's comments in the Chicago Tribune.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-lawyers-joblesstre80403k-20120104,0,6813419.story

    ReplyDelete
  14. Yes, Nando. Please Do Robinson. The fucking head of the ABA blames unemployed lawyers for their predicament, denies that law schools are inflating job stats, and denies that law school is overpriced! This hog must not go unroasted.

    In general, I have much more respect for practitioners than academics, but Robinson is worse than ANY law school dean or professor.

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  15. Robinson claims that only about 4 out the 200 plus ABA accredited schools have fudged the employment numbers. Was that an over the phone quote? I bet Robinson can't make that claim with a straight face.

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  16. The commode of law houses the Ohio Innocence Project:

    http://www.law.uc.edu/institutes-centers/ohio-innocence-project

    "The Rosenthal Institute for Justice was established at the UC College of Law thanks to the generosity of Lois and Richard Rosenthal. The primary component of the Rosenthal Institute for Justice is the Ohio Innocence Project, which was founded in 2003. Harnessing the energy and intellect of law students as its driving force, the OIP seeks to identify inmates in Ohio prisons who are actually innocent of the crimes they were convicted of committing. Innocence is often determined by DNA testing, but can include other types of new evidence such as new witnesses, new expert testimony, or evidence of police misconduct. Once an inmate's innocence has been established through investigation, the OIP sends the case back to court and litigates in the hope of obtaining the inmate's freedom. Innocence Projects across the country have freed more than 250 wrongfully convicted inmates to date. The Ohio Innocence Project to date has helped 10 individuals obtain their long-sought freedom. Learn more about our significant cases."

    Ostensibly, this is an admirable program - even though the vast majority of people charged with a serious crime are guilty of that charge. However, if you are a prospective law student/lemming, consider the following: attorneys, judges, cops, and an entire legal system are responsible for sending innocent men and women to prison - including death row. Law and politics sent these people away, while science has helped free some. (To be fair, forensic science has also helped convict several guiltless defendants. When a panel of 12 morons hears that a partial fingerprint from the defendant was found near the scene, that can be considered damning evidence.) Furthermore, when you convict the inculpable, the guilty bastard is still free - and may commit more crimes.

    http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/

    If the state is going to murder people convicted of certain violent crimes - out of revenge - then it should make damn sure that the person truly is guilty of the heinous crime. The fact is that the death penalty is not a deterrent, for other criminals. Even many of those in favor of this punishment will concede that it does deter others. How many perpetrators think that they will be caught? Plus, a sentence of capital punishment is relatively rare - and the method is not applied evenly. Then again, it will preclude the specific death row inhabitant from re-offending against members of the greater society - although he may be able to shank another inmate.

    Pertaining to “legal education,” low-ranked law schools try to impress progressive and idealistic young people - with such innocence projects. These programs are a ploy to attract additional students. The fact is that there are typically few openings. Plus, academics and semi-retired lawyers usually take these cases, because there is not much money in defending supposedly innocent men and women rotting in prison. Do not be fooled into thinking that you have a future in helping to exonerate such inmates. You will likely be strapped down with a mountain of NON-DISCHARGEABLE student debt. How will you be in a financial position to help prove a prisoner’s innocence?! By the way, these "innocent" convicts are often unsavory characters, with long records - which helps explain why they were found guilty of the crime that landed them on death row.

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  17. The schools know that tons of idealistic young college grads will fall for the clinic based experience. When you add in the words "innocence project" the students will jump at the chance. Hey do you think the school is gonna hire their own graduates to run the clinic?

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  18. Nando: Good piece here

    http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/the_law_school_bubble_how_long_will_it_last_if_law_grads_cant_pay_bills

    Keep up the good work

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  19. Can you do an entry on UC Davis? My cousin is being a dumbass and he's applying to this school. As well as some other California schools. Here's the kicker. We both live in Atlanta and he's thinking he can get into the LA biglaw market. We don't have family in California. He graduated college 3 years ago and is making about $50 grand. Hardly any student loans. I wish you could come down here and kick his ass and then tell him about the law schools. I sent him lots of articles but the fool won't listen.

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  20. January 4, 2012 11:26 AM Please don't go to law school. your LSAT scores are not high enough to get into a law school in a state with a T14 law school. You will most likely be fiscally destroyed after having spent 3 years at some random shithole. If you can find a job after getting out of college, find one and do that.

    Remember Due to law's bimodal salary distribution we can infer that there are actually two types of lawyers. Ones who went to prestigious schools and made at least the top half of the class and the other kind. The other kind will be working for near minimum wage but with extensive student loans. You will not be a prestigious lawyer because your LSAT scores are not high enough, so you will be a shitlawyer. You don't want to be a shitlawyer, so don't go to law school.

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  21. January 5, 2012 2:53 PM I hope sincerely that your cousin will eventually see your wisdom. I would hate to trade Hotlanta and $50k per year and no student loans for attempting to make it in California with a JD and epic debt. Tell him that the average lawyer also makes $50k, but pays much more a month in student loans.

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  22. January 5, 2012 2:53 PM,

    I also live in Atlanta. If you want me to talk to your cousin, I will be happy to do so.

    50k a year? Is your cousin retarded? Who the FUCK would trade in 50k a year for law school? Does your cousin want to ruin his/her life?

    If so, then yes, I highly suggest law school.

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  23. The Innocence Project is admirable, especially in comparison with the other crap that passes for legal education at law schools.

    It should be noted, however, that Innocence Project clients have all lost at trial, lost their direct appeal, and often unsuccessfully challenged their conviction in multiple postconviction proceedings. They are at the last-ditch-stage, and their only hope for relief is to petition the courts under special statutes created to provide remedies for petitioners who have persuasive newly-discovered evidence of innocence--usually, though not always, in the form of DNA tests.

    What does this mean in the context of legal education? It means that there is relatively little lawyering-qua-lawyering to be done. The Innocence Project needs one or two seasoned criminal defense lawyers to supervise the project and prepare the petitions. Beyond that, what they need is not lawyers, but investigators. Law students who participate in the Innocence Project will learn to be investigators, not lawyers, same as the many journalism grad students and undergrads who participate. In other words, the Innocence Project will not prepare a law student to practice criminal law, though it IS honorable in its own right and will provide a nice line on a resume.

    If law schools were serious about training criminal practitioners, rather than clueless soon-to-be-disillusioned do-gooders, what they ought to do is set up structured series of intensive internships with the local public defender and State's Attorney's office, whereby students would learn how to argue a pretrial motion, negotiate a plea, try a case, and write an appeal.

    ReplyDelete
  24. http://www.law.uc.edu/institutes-centers/urban-morgan-institute/human-rights-quarterly

    “The Urban Morgan Institute edits the Human Rights Quarterly published by The Johns Hopkins University Press, the oldest university press in the country. The Quarterly is multidisciplinary and covers the range of human rights matters encompassed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In its more than thirty years and nearly a thousand articles and book reviews, the Quarterly is recognized as the leading academic journal in the human rights field. Both its audience and its authors are represented on every part of the globe.”

    This commode edit’s the Human Rights Quarterly. Here is some brief info on the Urban Morgan Institute:

    http://www.law.uc.edu/institutes-centers/urban-morgan-institute

    “Promoting Human Rights Around the Globe

    For three decades, the Urban Morgan Institute has educated and trained human rights lawyers, who promote and protect human rights in the international arena. Established in 1979, the Institute now serves as a model for many other human rights programs.

    The Urban Morgan Institute offers many opportunities, both inside the classroom and beyond, for students who are interested in international law and human rights. At the core of the Institute’s success is the Human Rights Quarterly, recognized as the leading academic journal in the human rights field. The Quarterly covers the range of human rights issues encompassed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Published by The Johns Hopkins University Press, the Human Rights Quarterly is edited by UC law students who are overseen by Bert Lockwood, Editor-in-Chief and Director of the Institute.”

    http://www.law.uc.edu/institutes-centers/IGPL

    “The Institute for the Global Practice of Law at the University of Cincinnati College of Law is pleased to announce an intensive four-week Summer Program designed for lawyers from countries other than the United States who are interested in U.S. Law and international business transactions. The Institute is particularly valuable for non-U.S. lawyers who want to better represent their U.S. clients, partner with U.S. lawyers in the representation of those clients, and negotiate or litigate opposite U.S. parties. The program also provides opportunities to forge and strengthen professional ties with law firms and companies in the Cincinnati area.”

    Do not be fooled into believing that attending this second tier sewer will prepare you to practice “international” law. More importantly, do you honestly think that the U.S. State Department is going to recruit from your second-rate law school?!?! At best, the school is regional. If you seek “intellectual stimulation” in an area that interests you, then why not take some courses at your local community college?! At least, you will not end up pissing away three years of your life - and incur a ton of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, in the process - if you take the latter route.

    @ 2:53 pm,

    If your cousin is intent on throwing his financial future away, then that is his choice. There is now plenty of solid information online, regarding “legal education.” Hopefully, he doesn't have a family to support.

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  25. Nando, please pwn the ABA president for his recent comments showing his contempt for unemployed law school grads.

    This needs your take. Thanks.

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  26. Ten bucks says Nando rips in this ABA Robinson bastard next.

    ReplyDelete
  27. ^

    Only $10.00?

    I'd bet my life on it!

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  28. If you're doing one on Robinson the Third, do it on Monday. Send it to various newspapers.

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  29. William T Robinson needs to seriously stop talking. Now law school is a good investment in his eyes. Sic 'em Nando!

    http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202537614283&AALS_adds_four_new_members_wins_kind_words_from_ABA_president=&et=editorial&bu=National%20Law%20Journal&cn=afternoon_update_1_6_11&src=EMC-Email&pt=NLJ.com%20-Legal%20Times%20Afternoon%20Update&kw=AALS%20Adds%20Four%20New%20Members%2C%20Wins%20Kind%20Words%20From%20ABA%20President&slreturn=1

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  30. My situation is I am 47 yrs old and I am considering law. I've been working for electric company and have been a shop steward for 20+ years. I am considering taking a day shift position (pay cut when compared to shift work)so that I can go to law school part time at night. Was looking to go into law after retirement (age 55, full pension, medical). Would your feelings still be as negative with above info? Would it be crazy?

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  31. Also, was considering Temple. Saw US News report that ranked them quite high for part time law schools. Why such a difference between that rating and your stated third tier school? Is it just that there isn't that many part time schools available and they're all pretty bad?

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  32. Job? A law license is a money making tool and poverty is the grease. These lazy grads should hang out a shingle and handle SSI, SSD, Workers Comp, Veterans disability, DUIs, slip and fall cases etc. There is a lot of money to made for industrious attorneys but these whiners want to wear silk stockings and have a cubicle at Taft, Stettinius and Hollister.

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  33. Pick up the yellow pages and look at all the attorney adds and small law offices. There are not enough clients to feed the bottom dwellers looking for slip and falls etc. The nickle and dime cases that might exist pay out very little as most are complete BS and settle for almost nothing. After you pay malpractice, office rent, and any overhead you might make 30K in salary. Try servicing 100k plus in loans on that salary.

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  34. To the piece of garbage who posted on January 7, 2012 at 6:15 pm,

    http://ip-whois-lookup.com/lookup.php?ip=67.20.156.69

    You are posting from Bluffton, SC. For those not familiar with the area, this city is roughly 8 miles from Hilton Head, SC. By the way, Ass-Clown, many law students have no interest in Biglaw. (When they find themselves incurring an additional $100K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, they may change their views.)

    http://www.distancebetweencities.net/hilton-head_sc_and_bluffton_sc/

    From my analytics:

    Visitor detail
    IP address: 67.20.156.69
    IP lookup: ARIN / RIPE
    Unique ID: 2287633275
    First visit: Sat Jan 7 2012 6:07pm
    Visits: 2
    Language: English
    Location: Bluffton, SC, USA
    Operating system: Windows Vista
    Web browser: Internet Explorer 9.0
    Resolution: 1680x1050
    Javascript: Enabled

    Time Visitor Session Referrer
    Jan 7 2012 6:29pm 67.20.156.69 2 actions 52s blogger.com/comment-iframe.g
    Jan 7 2012 6:07pm 67.20.156.69 3 actions 8m 10s lawschooldiscussion.org/

    Hell, most prospective law students have never even heard of Taft, Stettinius and Hollister, bitch. By the way, you first came across this blog, from LSD - which indicates that YOU are seeking acceptance to an “elite” law school - and then to enter Biglaw.

    Lastly, do not come on here spouting absolute nonsense and drivel, regarding the U.S. legal job market. I have seen experienced, practicing attorneys take on entire cases - from initial consultation to final disposition - for $400. ABA-accredited law schools continue to pump out FAR TOO MANY grads, for the available number of attorney and law-related job openings.

    http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NationalSummaryChartforSchools2010.pdf

    Take a look at the NALP JD Class of 2010 National Summary Report, willfully ignorant cockroach. There were 44,258 members of this particular class. According to this document, only 28,167 respondents reported working in jobs where “bar passage was required.” Keep in mind that this amount takes 1,039 desperate solo practitioners into account. Look on page 2 of this PDF, under Source of Job, bitch. You will notice that the VAST majority of survey respondents landed their own employment. Do you want me to shove your straw man up your ass further, moron?!?!

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  35. So now the president of the ABA is playing the "Blame the victim" Game?

    A true hallmark of a scam.

    When I first graduated, I thought there was something wrong with "me". Why wasn't I even getting interviews? I sent so many resumes, etc.

    Then, about a good 6 months after graduation, I realized what the real objective of it all was. Get the money from the students. Period. It's that simple. And how something legal could still be a scam, just a legal one.

    Education is really a scam. None is needed, except in special occupations, post high-school i.e. medical.

    You should start working in a chosen profession at 16 and then get experience, like they did back in the old days. But no one wants that. It's not in the banker's interests or the schools, etc. They need to be fed. Otherwise *their* lifestyle suffers.

    As far as that girl in Syracuse, I'm not surprised. They'll blame her, the victim. But her same story is repeated thousands of times over across the country. It's just that no one hears about it.

    I've been out nearly 20 years. A good 60% of my class isn't practicing law. It's a zero-sum game. There's only so much work. Yet graduates are flooding the market every year, wave after wave. Each wave just adds to the chances that a given person can't make it. You are competing with all of them, including desperate people with 5, 10, 15, 20+ years of experience who are all trying to eat your lunch to survive.

    I can look up so many people that are still struggling and have gone nowhere since law school. They are only punishing themselves by trying to make it in the field. Year after year of low wages, self-employment as a solo, whatever, trying to ward off homelessness and Sallie Mae. And the above includes people who were at the top and fell down, again very common and very easy in law.

    The schools paint a rosy picture for their students and then by graduation drop them. But that was always the Master Plan anyway.

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  36. In the summer of last year, I received an email originated from a Hotmail account. The website of the firm does not provide my email address and provides an email form instead. The guy who sent the email to me did not know my email address and did not want to use the form apparently thinking (and rightly so) that I would not reply. He tried to cover a number of variations hoping for the best. One variation was right and I go it.

    The email represented a week worth of communication between two wannabe entrepreneurs presently employed as software salesmen and a senior partner in a well-known law firm located in LA and dealing with start-ups. Basically, these guys were trying to convince the partner to provide his legal services for free instead of charging them $600.00 in hour. While they were doing so, the guys were asking all sorts of questions clearly trying to get free legal advices out of the partner. The partner eventually asked the guys to sign a retainer agreement and to deposit money in trust. At that point the guys began to look for new opportunities, dropped the partner, and emailed to me asking if I could underbid the partner. I did not reply.

    What deeply touched me in this situation was the fact that the partner for a week was dealing with two deadbeats with one Hotmail account. He was wasting his time on two guys who probably had $500.00 to their names (combined) treating them as legitimate prospects. I thought: "Things could not be so bad, people out West could not be so desperate." I then established a Hotmail account under name Joe Brown to either verify or dispel my suspicion. I sent several emails from my Hotmail account to senior partners in large firms and presented myself as a wealthy industrialist thinking to go in a high-tech business. Each time I contacted a partner, I received an offer to talk on the phone.

    I suspect that many lawyers in the next ten or so years, as economy worsens, will start to give their clients head just to keep those clients around. However, lemmings are still lining up and taking LSAT by tens of thousands, and I fail to comprehend this phenomenon.

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  37. 'I suspect that many lawyers in the next ten or so years, as economy worsens, will start to give their clients head just to keep those clients around.'

    Here's an addendum to the giving head part 'and they better be good at it.'

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  38. I don't know what you see in College Misery, Nando - I've tried to bring up the debt load of students, how the bomb will probably go off....nothing gets their attention because they are in the bubble of professorship. When the bubble bursts...

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  39. Over the weekend, I spoke to a neighbor, whose son started law school this past Fall. My neighbor's kid had asked for my advice about attending law school. I neither discouraged nor encouraged him to attend. I told him that there was a plethora of resources out there that could help him arrive at a decision on his own. I did, however, stress to him that if he was not in the top 10% (he is attending a local TTT law school) after his first semester, to drop out as first year (particularly first semester grades) grades determine your legal career. Well apparently law schools have caught on to the "wait and see" strategy. My neighbor was telling me that his kid was starting the Spring semester today and that he had not even received one grade back from the Fall semester. I have heard that other schools are withholding first semester grades far into the Spring semester in order to ensure that the Federal student loan checks have been cashed beyond the drop/add/refund period. This type of conduct is unethical and disgusting. If anything, this type of behavior is an indictment of how shameless these law schools are in keeping the student loan gravy train running.

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  40. 610 AM:

    This is now common across the schools. They know the deal. They also don't rank you so that when you get your grades, you don't know where you stand in relation to your peers.

    Again, all these things taken together are hallmarks of a scam operation.

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  41. Well everyone is welcome to rip on Ohio as much as they want to, but as a local and a law school student in Ohio, this state is my home and I like living here. Anyway, I certainly agree that 9 law schools is far too many for Ohio, I honestly think that it should be cut down to Case, OSU & UC. They are really in the only cities in Ohio that have money (and seriously, we do actually have some cities with money, just not like the good ol' days). I agree that just because you graduate with a J.D. from Case that you are not guaranteed to have a job in D.C. that pays 6 figures, but I definitely think the big three in Ohio are wise investments if you want to be a lawyer; just stay away from the lower ranked schools here.

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  42. Can you actually die of bitterness and resentment?

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  43. To the cockroach calling itself Matthew Hall,

    Hopefully, you will one day grow a brain stem. Then you will realize that ABA-accredited law schools are perpetrating a scam. Recent grads and current students are being pushed into the meat grinder. Apparently, you care more about protecting wealthy, overpaid, underworked "law professors" and deans than you do about those of average means. Get lost, bitch.

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  44. I've found that unemployed lawyers are very good sandwich artists at my @#$#%&!€¢ Sub shop!!! There avg. Lsat score is 166 and they have the collective experience of over 2 yrs.!!! That's not bad for 4 wanted to be attorneys. They are currently making an avg. median salary of $19,680 and Jack is now my night shift co-manager!!! This giant legal cesspool is great for me!!! Except for Terry!!! I caught that bastard eating pepperoni in the walk in cooler last summer and I had to can his ass!!! I only make a 47.5 % profit on my @#$%$&% subs and if the bastard sandwich artist is eating my fucking pepperoni then my mutherfucking profit goes down!!! So now my co-manager is filing a suit on my behalf against that pepperoni thieving bastard!!!

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