Thursday, January 26, 2012

Third Tier Meconium: University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law




http://law.umkc.edu/prospective-students/tuition-and-fees.asp

Tuition: Missouri residents attending this Dumpster on a full-time basis will pay $16,730.40, in tuition for the 2011-2012 school year. This equates to $557.68 per credit hour. The school notes the following: “Non-resident fees are an additional $558.06 per credit hour and apply to all applicants who do not qualify as Missouri residents.” At 30 credit hours, tuition would run to $33,472.20 for out-of-state UMKC law students, for 2011-2012. Who says that public schools are cost-effective?!?!

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same page, total COA for in-state, full-time UMKC law students will amount to $39,024 - for 2011-2012. Based on the info above, this figure will reach $55,766, for non-resident, full-time law students at UMKC, for the current academic year. By the way, unlike many other commodes of law, this school at least has the decency to explicitly state that it calculates costs, on a nine-month basis.

Common sense dictates that law students will require living expenses, for the entire twelve month calendar year. As such, total COA for a Missouri resident attending this dump on a full-time basis will be $44,964.40, whereas full-time, non-resident law students will face a total tab of $61,706.20 - for 2011-2012 alone.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5

Ranking: If you are eagerly anticipating attending this law school in Fall 2012, you may want to turn away for a minute. Robert Morse and the hags at US “”News” & World Report rate the UniversiTTTy of Missouri Kansas CiTTTy Sewer of Law as the 113th greatest and most magnificent law school in the nation. What an elite institution, huh?!

http://law.umkc.edu/pdfs/cso-employment-statistics.pdf

Embarrassing Employment Placement and Starting Salary Statistics: This PDF states that 72.9% of the UMKC Law Class of 2010 was employed or seeking another degree, within nine months of graduation! This is based on an alleged 100 percent response rate. Keep in mind that this figure includes grads working in non-legal positions, i.e. insurance adjusters, school teachers, baristas, etc. Yes, this school is clearly worth paying $16,370.40 or $33,472.20 in yearly tuition, right?!?! 

The mean salary - for those in the private sector - is listed as $57,897. The school published a figure of $44,198 as the mean salary, for those working in the public sector. Furthermore, the school notes that 19 members of the Class of 2010, working in private practice, ended up as solo practitioners. Additionally, 41.3 percent of this cohort went to work for firms with 2-10 lawyers. Before any apologists cite the 96.9 passage rate, for UMKC taking the Missouri bar exam, know that your “argument” is undermined, by the figures above. In the end, bar passage does not equal legal employment - which is the point of attaining a law license.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+5

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the UMKC Law Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $90,767. Then again, only 84 percent of this dung heap’s particular class took on such toxic debt. This figure does not take undergraduate debt into account. Who wouldn't want to take out such monstrous debt for a law degree that is overpriced, based on student outcomes?!?!

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi

When you enter the amount of $90,767 into the FinAid student loan calculator, at 6.8% interest, the results show $213,026.26 over 361 monthly payments. Enjoy making your $590.10 payment each month. By the way, at this level, you will end up taking out private loans, which means that a fair amount of your debt will be repaid at a much higher rate - perhaps 8.5 percent or even 10 percent. Do you still have your heart set on practicing law and seeking “justice”?!?! Keep in mind that the average listed does not include debt from undergrad.

“It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $71,007.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.3. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $47,338.40, but you may experience some financial difficulty. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.9.”

Conclusion: The University of Missouri Kansas City School of Law is a third tier commode that provides its students and graduates with anemic employment prospects. Would you willingly take out $95K-$135K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a chance to earn $45K-$55K per year?!?! If you attend this dump, that is exactly what you will be doing. Take your debt from undergrad into account, as well. 

http://thepeoplestherapist.com/2010/11/03/extremely-versatile-crockery/

On November 3, 2010, psychotherapist and former Biglaw associate Will Meyerhofer succinctly sums up the law school model:

“For the record, a law degree is not “versatile.” Being a lawyer amounts to a strike against you if you ever decide to pursue another career.

So why do people keep insisting it’s an “extremely versatile degree”? 

A bunch of reasons.

Law schools are in it for the money. Teaching law doesn’t cost much, but they charge a fortune – made possible by not-[dischargeable]-in-bankruptcy loans. That makes each law school a massive cash cow for the rest of the university. Money flowing from the law school pays the heating bill for the not-so-profitable Department of Neo-Structuralist Linguistics.” [Emphasis mine]

Have fun in financial hell, if you choose this TTT path.

36 comments:

  1. These photos are repulsive. I can't even drink my morning cup of coffee and look at the pictures.

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  2. I see you're expanding your 'oeuvre' as far as artwork describing law school goes. Nice.

    Might I suggest that you expand this site into more than just a blog? You now have so many breakdowns of law schools that a homepage with a link to each school, perhaps by state, would be very useful. Blog readers generally get only the most current post, but there's so much info about so many schools that is just hidden away on this gem of a site.

    Just a thought. Keep up with the blogging, but just make the older posts more accessible.

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  3. Awesome post. I doubt all law students understand these facts, just keep shouting them at the top of your lungs, I'm sure more students will drop out like I did.

    How can someone justify going into $90k of debt when they can't even declare bankruptcy if they can't find a job? The edu-bubble collapse will be different than the housing bubble in that the weight of the edu-bubble will fall entirely on the backs of the middle class, whereas the housing bubble mess cleanup can be spread around the entire economy. In other words, edu-bubble is going to be worse for everyday folks.

    Keep blogging, Nando! You have the truth in your hand, you hold it like a baseball bat, just keep clubbing their false system until they can't deny the truth any longer.

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  4. Wow! Where did you find that photo? Good thing I finished my lunch before I read this post--which is one of your better ones, by the way!

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  5. Tuition is too high for this school. I never even heard of the place until just now. And the job placement rate is a joke.

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  6. Talking down to law students is not gonna change their mind. It might strengthen their resolve even.

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  7. http://www1.law.umkc.edu/urbanlawyer/index.htm

    As a student at this dung pit, you can look up citations on article submissions to The Urban Lawyer: The National Quarterly on State and Local Government. That sounds interesting and exciting. Honestly, potential employers typically don’t care about secondary journal “experience.” To them, if you were not on law review, then you are subpar.

    http://www1.law.umkc.edu/academic/scholarly.htm

    “Urban Lawyer

    The Urban Lawyer is the official national journal of the American Bar Association’s Section of Urban, State and Local Government Law and is the largest circulating urban law journal in the world. Under the supervision of Professor Emeritus Robert H. Freilich, student editors and junior staff members prepare articles, comments, case notes and book reviews for publication in the quarterly journal. The Urban Lawyer offers the law student a chance to gain knowledge and experience in a wide spectrum of topics by editing articles written by law professors and legal practitioners throughout the county and internationally. The articles range from land use, transportation, housing, environment and individual rights to public governance and finance. It also offers an opportunity for students to increase analytical and writing skills through contributions that may be selected for publication in the journal, thus attributing to the establishment of an attorney’s professional reputation and employment prospects. Competition for membership on the junior staff is held in the spring of the first year. Selection is based on the student’s proficiency in editorial skills and initiative. Editors’ positions are selected in the late fall of the second year. Up to four hours of credit are available for working on the Urban Lawyer.”

    Here is another sack of academic waste:

    “Journal of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers

    The American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers has chosen the School to assume editorial responsibility for its twice-yearly publication, the Journal of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. A faculty member edits the Journal, which combines original material on family-law themes with summaries of significant articles related to those themes, with student editorial assistance. Under the faculty member’s supervision, students research and write papers on a topic designated for an upcoming issue, write summaries of major articles in the field and edit submitted lead articles. Papers submitted by students are considered for publication in the journal.”

    At least, you don’t need to worry about editing articles to this TTTT publication.

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/profiles/glesnerfines/GAL/gal-home.htm

    The school also offers a Guardian Ad Litem Workshop/course. Keep in mind that if you go into family law, you will see ugly disputes – for little compensation. See how well that works on your nerves, after a while.

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  8. I have to agree with all the pissed off people: that photo is some raunchy shit.

    This lawl skool is just another mass-manufactured third-tier money suck....we've seen them before and we'll see them again. We need to shut down most of the lawl skools if they ever want to bring the American legal field back to balance, but it's never going to happen; I mean, if they are opening up the profession to the Chinese and Indians then it's screwed. I thank God every day I had nothing to do with the law or law school.

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  9. I recently had a discussion with other attorneys about the current situation in the legal industry. We all agreed that the current need for attorneys would be satisfied by the total enrollement of about 75 law schools. There are about 200 ABA approved (not counting the dozens of non-ABA approved law schools) that are pumping out more grads than needed.

    Let's be honest here. No one from Missouri Law or KC Law School is going to get a Biglaw gig in NYC. Most of these grads will have to set up a solo shop representing drunk cow tippers, vagrants and people who will low-ball them on fees. These grads will incur six figure debt to have the privelege of representing the dregs of their community. Is this something that your parents would be proud of? I mean I realize to them being a lawyer is a big deal but are you really going to risk lifetime financial ruin to make your parents happy?

    Take it from someone who went down this road and succeeded. I am still a miserable fuck who is served shit pies day after day after day.

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    Replies
    1. I total agree with your comment and the author, this school is a complete waste of time and money. I personally know people that have attended this school. Heed to this advice everyone.

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  10. This is the first time you've posted a turd picture so gross that I can't read the article because of the photo. ARGH....

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  11. Get that law degree and go out there and help the drains on society in their legal predicaments. After you get their sentence reduced or the case dismissed, be prepared for them to stiff you on legal fees. Or to trash your reputation to everyone they come into contact with. Fucking ingrates.

    Hope you like tracking down crackheads and petty criminals for money owed. Yep, that sounds like fun doesn't it? You the adventurous type? And dont forget. If you can't get a guilty criminal off (due to him being oh I don't know guiltier than shit) be forewarned that he might want to send you a message. Good luck paying back your student loans.

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  12. I think I have an idea of how UMKC Law could advertise itself. Since University of Missouri has the Flagship law school for the state of Missouri, maybe UMKC could advertise itself as the Secondary Flagship law school in Missouri. And maybe if something happened to the University of Missouri, like it took on water, or the generators shut down or it was torpedoed or the crew mutinied or something, then the flag could be transferred to UMKC and the UMKC could be the flagship public law school.

    Failing that, maybe UMKC could advertise itself as the second best public law school in Missouri. There's some sales potential there. They could point out how they have the second greatest public law school law review in Missouri, and the second best public law school moot court team and the second best public law school career services office fax machine. Hell, they could let everyone know that they have the second best public law school drinking fountains in the entire state of Missouri. All 69,704 square miles of it!!!! Holy shit, I think I've just about talked myself into enrolling there, and I already went to law school once.

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  13. the United States is a big fucking pile of rancid shitJanuary 27, 2012 at 4:07 PM

    Nobody should waste their time going to a third tier school. Especially one nobody's heard of like this piece of shit. Seriously. UMKC? What the fuck does that stand for? Call letters for a radio station in that state or something?

    You guys wanna end up like that Painter guy who went to Touro? Good writer and seems like a decent person, but his life is financially fucked. He's not the only one. There is an army of debt slaves. Why? Because they went to fucking law school. Or graduate school. Or got a PhD in some nonsense. The banks are happy to provide these federally guaranteed loans. Here's how this shit goes down. So you wanna major in archeology? Fine. Sign here. Oh you want a PhD in romance lit? OK. Sign here. You're gonna write a doctoral thesis on how women respond to a good foot rub on a metaphysical and molecular level? Have at it, just sign here first.

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    Replies
    1. Echoed: Complete piece of shit!!!

      Delete
  14. We have not had any law skool superheroes posting in here lately. Those that post shit like "I know I am going to be fucked in the ass (balls deep) but I am going to a law skool anyways, just to upset all of you, and I will emerge out of it as a victorious sole ambulance chaser."

    Granted, I have more grey matter in the head of my dick, but I still like to read the shit those retards with a political science background are posting in here. It provides a proof to an adage that a sucker is born every minute. So, retarded cocksuckers of both genders, why would not you post your nonsense here to make my weekend?

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  15. the United States of America is a big smelly stinky worthless pile of petrified dog shitJanuary 27, 2012 at 8:19 PM

    ^I notice not too many of those fucks post that shit any more. Guess they got tired of seeing their IP addresses posted online and being called pussies. And then getting the shit beat out of them with a bunch of charts and reports.

    My favorite lemming comments go like this: 'Your wrong man. Your a fucken idiot.'

    Because we all know what comes after that.

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  16. On June 27, 2011, Catherine Rampell wrote a piece for the New York Times Economix blog, entitled “The Lawyer Surplus, State by State.” Here is a sampling, from that article:

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/the-lawyer-surplus-state-by-state/

    “We’ve written before about the tough job market for recent law-school graduates. The climate is hard partly because of the weak economy, but also partly because the nation’s law schools are churning out many more lawyers than the economy needs even in the long run.

    Now a few researchers have tried to quantify exactly how big that surplus is.

    The numbers were crunched by Economic Modeling Specialists Inc. (also known as EMSI), a consulting company that focuses on employment data and economic analysis. The company’s calculations were based on the number of people who passed the bar exam in each state in 2009, versus an estimate of annual job openings for lawyers in those states. They also looked at data from the Department of Education on law school graduates each year to get another measure of the quantity of new lawyers. Estimates for the number of openings is based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.

    According to this model, every state but Wisconsin and Nebraska (plus Washington, D.C.) is producing many more lawyers than it needs. (See table after the jump for full data, and additional caveats.)

    In fact, across the country, there were twice as many people who passed the bar in 2009 (53,508) as there were openings (26,239). A separate estimate for the number of lawyers produced in 2009 — the number of new law-school graduates, according to the National Center for Education Statistics — also showed a surplus, although it was not quite as large (44,159 new law grads compared with 26,239 openings).”

    According to EMSI, the state of Missouri is the TENTH MOST GLUTTED legal job market, in the nation. There will be an estimated 362 annual job openings, from 2010-2015. In 2009, a total of 943 people passed the Missouri bar exam. Do you see a problem with those figures?!?! Furthermore, there were 908 completers, in the state. This equates to an annual oversupply of 581 lawyers. Basically, Missouri produces/receives 2.6 licensed attorneys, for one available lawyer job.

    http://www.alllaw.com/state_resources/missouri/law_schools/

    As you can see, there are four ABA-accredited law schools, in the state of Missouri.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings

    According to US “News” & World Report, Washington University in St. Louis is ranked 18th, whereas the remaining three law schools are in third tier wasteland.

    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5

    St. Louis University has the 104th greatest law school, in the country; the University of Missouri Sewer of Law is listed as 107th best; and UMKC’s commode is rated 113th most phenomenal. Do you like your chances coming out of these filthy toilets?!?!

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  17. Don't get mad at the law schools just cause you fuckers couldn't land a job.

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  18. T Money, that is one of the best comments I think I've ever read. Very good work.

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  19. So there are three toilets in Missouri. Might as well get into one of them. Which school has better p;lacement in the area? Anyone out there know?

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  20. UMKC does ok in KC, SLU does well in STL. Obviously WUSTL gets priority in STL, but a lot of them leave for bigger markets. Mizzou grads are all over the state, as it has a good rep in MO. If you want to stay in MO, go wherever is cheaper if you can't get into WUSTL. With in-state tuition and low COL, MU is probably preferable to the other 2 options if you aren't dead set on working in a city.

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  21. UMKC is a joke. I mean who has heard of this school outside of Kansas City?

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  22. You mean outside of Missouri. Believe it or not, not everybody wants to move to NY or Chicago to practice. Just because you don't want to work in KC or Missouri/Kansas, doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people who do.

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  23. Who keeps posting this shit about UMKC? I wonder if he works for the admissions dept there. Ok so people in Kansas City have heard of the school. Big deal. Doesn't mean they want to hire any of you.

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  24. I have no affiliation with UMKC. But if you knew anything about the area, you'd realize most of the attorneys in KC are UMKC grads. If you're a MO resident and don't need BigLaw, you can graduate without a mountain of debt from a school that does ok in the state. Stop trying to talk shit about an area you obviously know nothing about. Employers in cities like KC don't check the meaningless USNWR rankings every year and then decide to start hiring kids from T2 schools on the other side of the country. UMKC has a good rep in MO, and that's all that matters to the kids going there. 16k a year in tuition is tuition is nothing, and a lot of people do really well in Missouri with JDs from UMKC. Stop trying to feel better about yourself by dogging places that you don't know about.

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  25. To the douche-bag who posted drivel on this entry, on February 3, 2012 at 11:04 pm,

    Quit reacting like an over-sensitive bitch to people's valid complaints about a third tier institution of "higher learning," Ass-Clown. How will you handle personal criticism, you apologist cockroach?!?!

    US "News" is a rag, but it ranks this school as the 113th best law school, in the United States. As I pointed out earlier, UMKC is the LOWEST-RATED law school - in the state of Missouri. Do you still want to lick the school's boots, moron?

    http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/index.php?topic=3001799.0

    On April 26, 2005 at 7:43:29 pm, someone using the handle "Jumboshrimps" posted a thread on Law School Discussion entitled "UMKC folks...Is this thing on?"

    Here are some responses, from another user. On July 27, 2006 at 3:14:26 pm, "pappahood" comes out swinging:

    "umkc sux. i honestly recommend that you do not go. the building is total bunnies, CSO is incompetent, and the administration is worse.

    here's one thing they don't advertise: 20% drop out rate. to be fair that includes people like me, who hate the place and transfer out of spite, but the majority of that number is flunk-outs and burnouts."

    As you can see, the tool/lemming known as "Jumboshrimps" had no interest in hearing what others - including those who went to UMKC - think about the commode.

    On August 14, 2006 at 9:28:18 pm, "pappahood" bitch-slapped Jumboturd once more:

    "i sincerely hope that this discussion will be read by some prospective 1L who changes his mind and choses not to go to UMKC (so honestly it doesn't matter if this is a dead thread). Like I said, I attended there and this Jumboshrimps is a prime example of one who drinks the law school cult kool aid in order to delude himself from the realities of the school. At UMKC he's in good company.

    The most important thing about law school (in my opinion) is about being able to get the hell out, graduate, and get a job. The cold hard facts are that only 20 or so people even got interviews after 1L and its safe to say that the vast majority of the 1L got no job whatsoever. A friend of mine was top 5% and all he was able to get was a part time unpaid internship."

    Of course, YOU will also ignore his advice - even though he went to this garbage pile. Your excuse will be along the lines of "Well, he's bitter, so his arguments carry no weight." Get a life, and stop defending this trash pit, mental midget.

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  26. This blog is great! I don't understand why people, who score sub 165 on the LSAT and have sub 3.60 GPAs', think they have any business going to law school in the first place! I'm attending UMKC for my undergrad and was just accepted to the University of Chicago and Washington University @ STL on half and 3/4 scholarships. Law Schools like UMKC, MU, and KU give the entire system a bad name.

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  27. To the poster above,

    Does a person's LSAT score determine how well one will practice law? If anything, it indicates how strongly one will perform in law school. By the way, several law schools will accept people with 2.9 UGPAs and/or 147 LSAT scores. Those schools should not be provided with ANY federal student loan funds. They obviously don't give a damn about the students or their recent graduates.

    Good luck in law school. Don't be surprised if the contracting legal job market impacts your job prospects, even at those schools. Hell, some grads from NYU, Northwestern, UVA, Michigan, Duke, Georgetown and Columbia are having difficulty finding legal employment.

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  28. I'm a recent UMKC Law Grad. Came in straight out of undergrad, was very naive in making the decision to attend law school in the first place, and mainly did so because it "was the next thing to do" to avoid growing up, since I generally had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. If I was diligent and had done my research, I admittedly probably would not have attended law school, or at least not UMKC.

    That being said, I'm lucky enough to have a job lined up, slightly above the median starting salary posted here, in a solid, medium sized firm in KC (medium by KC's standards). I wasn't anything special (median class rank, Law Review, but that's about it), but managed to snag private clerkships each summer after my 1L and 2L years. However, I did that by grinding, and through no help of UMKC or anyone else really. It's difficult for me to speculate exactly, but out of the 150 or so that recently graduated, I would say (again, very rough estimate here) around 60% or so had legal employment lined up pre-graduation, with 10-15 classmates at large firms in KC that will make 100K+ straight out. Not great employment percentage, but certainly could be worse.

    Bottom line is that there are a number of reasons to not attend law school, or UMKC. If you want to be in a semi-large market, you shouldn't even consider UMKC. But if you want to work in KC, or even smaller cities throughout Missouri or Kansas, it's a solid option. Again, there are tons of reasons to not go to UMKC, but basing the argument on the USNEWS rankings probably isn't the strongest reason; it really carries little-to-no weight in a market like KC. I'm certainly not a UMKC apologist, but I also don't think it's as bad as some commenters here make it out to be. If one wants a JD at a reasonable price, wants to work in KC, and can either get into the top 10% of the class, or grind their way into legal employment through connections, UMKC may be a good option. Just my two cents.

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  29. I currently attend this school and I can tell you that it is horrible!! I cannot stand it and will be transferring to a better school. Everyone kept going on about rank and I wanted to prove them wrong. I wanted to show people you can go to low ranked school and be successful. I was wrong! UMKC Law will accept anyone. All they care about is making money. I could meet a classier group of people in prison. I feel like the outcast because I am not married with 3 children. DO NOT GO HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  30. God, this school is such a worthless piece of shit.

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  31. I wish someone would've warned me sooner. This school is not known outside the Kansas City area. If you are sure you're going to stay in the area and you know you're going to be top 5% (which you have no way of knowing) then maybe you can come here. Other than that you're just throwing your money away.

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  32. Wonderful picture, looks like someone just got their PhD in Diaperology. Now, as for UMKC Law, the pricing for the year starting in September is $18,230, which is almost triple what I paid in my last year 14 years ago. Their figures for room and board should be $12,000 - leases are for twelve months, not nine - and the same holds for the other categories. Figure on spending $40,000 per nine-month academic year. Multiply that by 3.5 - accounting for tuition/book inflation, and you can figure to have spent about $140,000. For a 30-year student loan, figure on paying 2x principal in interest, so over the 30 year life of the loan, you're looking at $420,000 - about $14,000 in loan payments per year until you hit your mid-50s. If you're in the top 10% of the class, you'll make enough money in KC that this will be a pretty fair investment. So my advice is simple: At the end of the first semester, if you're not in the top 10% of the class, drop out and do something else, and don't put good money after bad. At the end of the second semester, the bottom 50% of the remaining class should drop out. Yeah you'll have spent a lot of cash for what seems like nothing - but the legal research and writing class will help you immeasurably if you decide to become a paralegal or do any kind of documentary research. In my time at UMKC Law, that class proved to be the most value in all of the years of criminal defense work I've done since.

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  33. At the risk of coming of as cliche, this school is nothing more than a business with the staffs all in on it. Heck, the deans husband works in the admission office, so go figure. The idea for them seems to be to get as many students in to pay the ridiculous high tuition, and suck them dry or flunk them. At the end you get a piece of paper attached to a massive debt, and an alcohol problem.

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  34. Some of the professors needs to be investigated!

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