Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Third Tier Trash Heap: City University of New York School of Law

This Garbage Pit is Now Offering Graduating Students an Extra Semester for Free, in Order to Boost its Bar Passage Rate:

On February 6, 2012, the Wall Street Journal Law Blog featured an article entitled “Bad GPA?  How about Another Semester on the House?”  Check out this opening:

“Law schools have been under a lot of scrutiny lately, with attention paid to their job-placement data, lawsuits over how they report those numbers, and even a suggestion that they pay students to quit school.

Now, one school is offering some students an extra semester — for free — if they agree to postpone taking the bar exam until February, instead of the usual July test. The City University of New York School of Law offered “a handful” of students a grant in the fall if they agree to sit for the bar exam in February 2013 instead of this summer, the New York Post reported.

The school’s pass rates for students sitting for the bar for first time fell to 67% last year, below a statewide average of 86%, the Post noted. Sanctions from the Bar Association could be implemented if schools have consecutive years with pass rates below 75%” [Emphasis mine]

See how much the law school cares about its students?  There is no insTTTiTTTuTTTional $elf-intere$t involved in this decision, at all, right?!?!

ATL’s Staci Zaretsky reported on this story, in a February 3, 2012 entry, under the headline “Which Law School Is Allegedly Paying Students Not to Take the Bar Exam This Semester?”  Here is an excerpt:

“So what happens when a law school’s graduates fail the bar exam in such great numbers that it becomes national news? Does that law school hang its head in shame and admit defeat? Or does it figure out a way to game the numbers so that next time, it won’t be so embarrassed?

As with most things having to do with numbers, this law school has allegedly made an ill-advised decision to appear more appealing to the public (and the American Bar Association). This law school is allegedly offering its students money in the hopes that they won’t take this summer’s bar exam. But which law school?

The law school in question is CUNY School of Law, one of National Jurist’s “Best Value” law schools for 2011. Recall that our readers voted CUNY Law as the second-worst law school in the New York metropolitan area.” [Emphasis mine]

Yes, this is having faith in one’s “product,” huh?!?!  I suppose it is too much to ask/demand that this third tier commode/“institution of higher learning” teach its students how to pass the bar exam – within the first six semesters of full-time enrollment.

Tuition: The garbage pit lists the tuition rate, by semester.  For the 2012-2013 school year, New York residents attending this sewer – on a full-time basis – will be charged $13,801.70 in tuition and fees.  Out-of-state, full-time CUNY law students will pay a total of $21,801.70 in tuition and fees – for 2012-2013.  Many will argue that this is affordable.  Keep in mind that students will reside in the pricey New York City area.

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, CUNY is the 121st greatest, most remarkable law school, in the country.  Their mothers must be very proud of this rousing accomplishment.

Supposed Employment Statistics: The school claims that 81 percent of its Class of 2010 was employed within nine months of graduation. For the JD classes of 2009, 2008, and 2007, the school asserts the following respective job “placement” rates: 90%; 85 percent; and 94.7%.  If the Class of 2007 had a legitimate 94.7 percent employment rate, then I started at second base for the Yankees in 2007.  For $ome rea$on, the toilet does not list average or median starting salary info.  The TTT notes that only 22.55% of the employed members from the Class of 2010 were working in private practice.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: The bums and hags at USN&WR list the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the CUNY Law Class of 2010 who incurred debt for law school - as $70,119. However, only 78 percent of this commode’s particular class took on such toxic debt. This figure does not take undergraduate debt into account.

Conclusion: This ABA-accredited trash can is simply trying to milk this system, for every last drop.  By their comical actions, the bastards admit that they are not providing their students with adequate job prospects or marketable skills.  Seriously, how do you manage to turn your “experience” reading commercial outlines and briefing parsed appellate legal cases – with rainbow highlighting – into a positive?!?!


  1. New York landfill. Nice touch.

  2. I live in NY and teach in the CUNY system. I also count lawyers and people who work in related industries (real estate, finance, etc.) among my acquaintances. They all regard CUNY Law as a joke; according to them, the main thing it has going for it is that it's much cheaper than NY Law(though still not cheap).

    I also am amused by all of the talk about CUNY Law's supposed orientation toward public service and non-profit work. That may be true, but even to practice law in those fields, one needs to pass the bar. And, as you point out, CUNY is well below average in that regard.

    Plus, even if 70 thou in debt is not as bad as 150,000, it's still a lot--and you'll be paying it for a long time--if you work for the kinds of salaries non-profits and public interest jobs pay.

  3. An extra semester to manipulate bar passage reporting, nice. How are these law schools any different than a sleazy used car salesman?

  4. I object to your picture. I object to your comparing CUNY Law to the Staten Island Landfill.

    At least the Staten Island Landfill serves a useful purpose. I'm not sure I can say the same for CUNY Law.

  5. CUNY is a shithole among shitholes. The school gears its students for nonprofit and public interest work. Gee, why would they do that?

    Hmmmm let me think about that one for a minute.

    Maybe the school is aware that it can't compete with NYU, Columbia, Cornell. I mean students from those schools are getting shut out.

  6. CUNY law is located in Flushing, Queens (just want to make a point so people wont get the idea that just being in NYC automatically makes it fabulous). True its cheaper than Manhattan, but this is more like a commuter school. The building sits next to a tough inner city public high school, not exactly a place I would feel comfortable so close to. Getting to the school is quite difficult because there is actually no subway trains around this area and the closest one requires taking a bus. But you can always drive. I just hope potential students don't get the wrong idea that they'll be living the glorious Manhattan lifestyle when they apply here though I hear that the school is looking to move to Long Island City in the future, which is a nicer area in Queens but don't expect too much.

  7. If the school is planning to move to Long Island, how are they gonna pay for that? Answer: higher tuition. Course the school will say they're doing it for the students.

  8. Nando, why are you so bitter?

    ....besides the fact that we got roped in and pissed away 3 years for a TTT degree nobody cares about?

    Bet you thought I was shilling for a second. :D

  9. Anyone here willing to trade in their law degree for a full refund of their loans? I know I a heartbeat.

  10. "CUNY law is located in Flushing, Queens."

    How appropriate that a toilet law school would be located in Flushing.

  11. @1:09 PM - I would gladly trade in my JD for even a fifty percent refund. I would trade it in for a handjob because I'm getting no use out of it right now, and I never will. I will be paying my six figure loans for the next twenty years and the opportunities I will have missed because of my huge student loan debt far outweighs the three years in law school. I will miss out on 20 years of my life.

    CUNT law school and all of the others should be SHUT THE FUCK DOWN!!!!

  12. I'd trade my shit law degree in for a case of tuna and a box of Top Ramen. I'm thinking of putting my law degree up on Ebay. I'm considering starting the bids at $30.

  13. I worked with a woman who got her degree from CUNY Law. She got her job through connections but ended up getting fired because she couldn't pass the NY Bar (the job required that you be admitted within 18 months). Fact is, she never should have gone to law school but there are plenty of dumps that will take anyone who can sign a tuition check.

  14. It's about time you got to this dump, which is located in an old decrepit builing located across the street from a cemetery.

    I once met a woman who graduated from this dump. She was miserable at her job. I asked her why she didn't lateral to another firm. Her response was that she had gotten the job through a connection and doubt that another firm would hire her based on where she went to law school. I asked her if she went to Cooley and she replied: "the Cooley of NYC, CUNY law." This attorney had been out of law school for 10 years and still could not get rid of the stench of her CUNY Law JD notwithstanding that she had 10 years of legal experience under her belt.

    If you attend this school, you may as well dig a ditch across the street in that cemetery and throw yourself in there after you graduate because your legal career is already DOA.

  15. Fran Drescher's annoyingly nasal Nanny Fein character came from Flushing...

    I checked the school out using Google Maps and, hot damn, people are right; the motherfucker is across the street from the huge Ceder Grove Cemetery. John Browne HS is right down the street. You can sense the doom through the computer.

    Speaking of DOA, here's Bloodrock playing their creepy hit "D.O.A"

  16. This school is a tough sell. It is housed in what looks like a 1960s era high school building, and to get there you need to take the 7 train to the last stop and then a bus. Driving in Queens is a misery and not for the squeamish. Try Queens Blvd or Woodhaven Blvd. anytime before 2:00AM. While CUNY's open admission policy is admirable, a negative side effect is that a lot of people end up attending the schools that really shouldn't be there. This is also the case with the law school. It is a place of last resort for people who feel compelled to go. At least the tuition is not as egregious as other NY area sinkholes such as NYLS, Pace and Brooklyn.

  17. From what I heard, CUNY Law School is located in a building that was designated in the early 1960s as a nuclear fallout shelter. How do you think they keep the tuition low? It is located in rat infested and outdated building. Regardless of how cheap it is, a cheap JD from a lowly regarded law school is just as toxic as a TTT JD from an expensive school.

    Believe me, a JD from this school will haunt your life, moreso than the dead souls buried across the street at Cedar Grove.

  18. I will be featured on Long Island News TV tomorrow, discussing my Student Loan Debt.

    Or rather the absolute soul and life destroying horror of my compounded debt.

    After a point, it is no longer Student Loan debt. It just becomes debt.

    Horrible and soul destroying debt with no nada zip none bankruptcy protections in place for the consumer.

  19. "If the school is planning to move to Long Island, how are they gonna pay for that? Answer: higher tuition"

    Long Island City is in Queens genius.

  20. Check out this old blog:

    “Cuny Law School Sucks
    Rants & Raves About CUNY Law School

    Wednesday, November 26, 2003

    No one knows this, and everyone knows this, but CUNY Law School sucks. This spot is really just dedicated to the obscene craziness that goes on, ranting and raving about the drama, stupidity, and ridiclousness (sic) that makes up the people at the law school. Now, if we could only pass the freaking bar exam!!”

    On December 5, 2011, Elie Mystal posted an article for ATL entitled “Landslide Choice For Worst Law School in New York.” Here is an excerpt:

    “Many Touro readers wrote in to, basically, scream at me, as if I had something to do with the results. Regardless of whether or not the readers are right about Touro, you would hope that the administration wouldn’t just ignore how the school is perceived. If people think you are running the worst law school for miles around, you can’t just blame the media.

    And what will Touro charge you for the right to go to their law school? A whopping $20,885 per semester.

    Price played a factor in the much closer battle for the worst law school in the five boroughs. Or maybe, it should have played a major factor. CUNY Law narrowly edged out New York Law School. CUNY was voted to be a worse school than NYLS by a mere 50 votes — a negligible margin. Commenters from both schools went back and forth about the merits of incoming students and graduates from both institutions.”

    At least, CUNY was only voted as the second biggest pile of trash in New York.

    One commenter posted the following, with regards to CUNY Law:

    “Coolgrnmen wrote:

    CUNY law is also in NYC and only costs $8k/yr? I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft pole. Employment sucks worse coming out of there. At the very least, NYLS has a solid alumni network.”
    Of course, these lemmings then engage in arguments over which low-ranked diploma mill is better. This behavior is comical, but often leads to tragic results. As you can see, CUNY Sewer of Law has a stellar reputation, huh?!?!

  21. Three years at CUNY Law School means three years of prolonged exposure to all the formaldehyde seeping out of those graves across the street. You see, morticians use formaldehyde to preserve cadavers for funeral viewings. Formaldehyde is a powerful embalming agent. I wonder what kind of side effect it has had on CUNY law students? Perhaps someone should do a study on how exposure to formaldehyde affects your brain. Then again, most CUNY law students are already suffering from some sort of diminished capacity prior to enrollment.

  22. Six semesters--no, wait, now seven!!--to teach what a bar review course teaches in eight weeks.

    And all so that a kid can drag his heavily indebted ass into a profession where his odds of scoring an entry-level law job are about one-in-three. And a good chunk of those jobs are in the 40K range.

    Of course, law school has slammed the door on any solo-ing option, given that those six--no, seven--semesters of law school rarely include training in any practice field.

    As someone who graduated when times were a bit better, I feel like personally apologizing to these kids--many of whom would have made fine lawyers, but who will never get the chance and who, moreover, will be burdened through life by their law degree as though it were a deformity or a felony conviction. Still, the catastrophe is less the fault of the practicing bar than it is the fault legal academia, which is stuffed with 6-figure frauds who have never represented a client.


    75th percentile lsat score: 157
    75th percentile ugpa score: 3.57

    We aren't dealing with geniuses. So the seeping formaldehyde shouldn't be that big a problem.

  24. CUNY law is such a depressing place that it even has an in-house psych clinic:

    When death surrounds you and a TTT credential with abysmal employment prospects will plague you, how can you expect to be a happy camper?

    Yale law has a therapy dog for students who are stressed. What does CUNY law have? Access to hacks who treat quacks?

  25. Anyone here willing to trade in their law degree for a full refund of their loans? I know I a heartbeat.
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  26. CUNY is a shit heap. Why of course it's located in Flushing, NY.

  27. Nando, I object to the use of this picture. There is a seagull in the picture. WTF? Did a seagull take a crap on your head? What do you have against the seagull? A more appropriate picture would have contained circling vultures since it seems this school and its students seem moribund.


    “NetRange: -
    NetName: CUNY-LAW
    NetHandle: NET-198-180-141-0-1
    Parent: NET-198-0-0-0-0
    NetType: Direct Assignment
    RegDate: 1993-08-02
    Updated: 1996-01-18

    OrgName: The City University of New York Law School
    OrgId: CUNYLS
    Address: The City University of New York
    Address: 65-21 Main Street
    City: Flushing
    StateProv: NY
    PostalCode: 11367
    Country: US
    RegDate: 1993-08-02
    Updated: 2011-09-24

    How is life in Flushing?! From my Analytics:

    “Visitors who live in Flushing

    Name this filter:

    Feb 9 2012 8:25am 2 actions 4m 34s
    Feb 9 2012 8:16am 2 actions 7m 35s
    Feb 9 2012 7:40am 1 action 10s
    Feb 9 2012 6:50am 1 action 10s
    Feb 9 2012 6:42am 1 action 10s
    Feb 9 2012 6:12am 1 action 10s
    Feb 9 2012 5:11am 1 action 10s
    Feb 9 2012 4:34am 1 action 10s

    Unique ID: 7450283187968897434
    IP address:
    Locale: Flushing, NY, USA / English
    Platform: Firefox 10.0 / Mac OS X / 1920x1200”

    It’s always nice to see visitors from the commode that I have just flushed. Is this a student or an “educator”?! Apparently, CUNY is located to the east of Cedar Grove Cemetery. Hell, I’m surprised the toilet doesn’t try to enroll some of those “residents” as law students. By the way, the proximity to the graveyard provides the students with an eerie glimpse into the future of their legal “careers.”

  29. 'Hell, I’m surprised the toilet doesn’t try to enroll some of those “residents” as law students.'


  30. If I were the undertaker at Cedar Grove Cemetery, I don't know what would depress me more: Burying dead people or watching the school across the street entomb kids' legal careers.

  31. I haven't been to this site in probably 2 months. I was wondering when the fuck you were gonna get to this piece of shit. Long overdue but you didn't disappoint.

  32. Public interest and non-profit employers are prestige whores, like everyone else. Whom to hire, the CUNY grad or the NYU grad? Tough decision.

  33. With the job market going to shit, nonprofits can take their pick of the litter. Go with the strong, strapping pitbull (NYU) or go with the little runt that can't fight off a common cold (CUNY)?

    Got that CUNY students? Elite school JDs are getting shut out of Biglaw and now they're taking jobs formerly set aside for you losers. Shit, I've seen Columbia and NYU grads on doc review projects. You're fucked.


    Take a look at this silly nonsense.

    “Program Overview

    The Equality Concentration examines the meaning of equality, the ways the law promotes or limits equality, and whether the professional role of the lawyer enhances equality for the client and for society. The doctrinal objective is to give a basic familiarity with specific constitutional and statutory sources for civil rights. The substantive areas studied are employment discrimination and Section 1983 actions against governmental entities, including police misconduct claims (Civil Rights Act of 1871). Issues of race and sex, such as racial and sexual harassment in the workplace, are examined in addition to issues of affirmative action, sexual orientation, disability, and age. The basic legal theories of discrimination, disparate impact and disparate treatment are applicable throughout civil rights law and litigation, and public policy and legislative advocacy.

    Students engage in this examination through both a classroom seminar, which includes simulated lawyering exercises, "rounds" where the students discuss legal and ethical issues from their placements, and working two days a week in a field placement under the supervision of a staff attorney and consultation with Concentration faculty. The placements provide a variety of opportunities involving litigation and non-litigation lawyering skills, such as drafting court complaints, participating in preparing for and observing depositions or mediations, participation in settlement conferences, and might involve public policy advocacy, depending on the student's learning goals.”

    Yes, that is going to lead to decent-paying employment, right?! If any lemmings want to engage in the idiotic argument “You guys are only thinking of money,” then you need to recognize that law school is PRIMARILY a financial decision. Most workers do not enjoy their jobs. Furthermore, when you are ”highly educated” - and do not come from a wealthy family - then you typically have incurred substantial amounts of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, in order to find decent employment.

    “Program Overview

    Students in the International Women's Human Rights Law Clinic (IWHR) engage in change-lawyering through litigation and advocacy, locally and globally. In conjunction with women's and LGBTQ advocates, human rights lawyers, and grass-roots organizations in the United States and abroad, we advocate on behalf of individual clients and groups in the context of promoting change in both national and international human rights law.

    Widely recognized for its expertise and contributions to gender jurisprudence and practice of human rights, the IWHR clinic enables students to engage in cutting edge work under close clinical supervision.”

    How is this practical “education”?! Are you, as a CUNY law grad, going to represent clients in “international human rights” cases?!?!

  35. hey you know me,i thing you wrong,increasingly bad job
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  36. Hey Nando,

    Didn't you cover these jokers?

    Duquesne University

    Tuition and fees cut: 50% in the form of a grant for freshmen who enroll in its School of Education

    Tuition and fees in 2012-13: $14,355 (down from $28,671)It looks like people are less willing to pay whatever tuition these college administrators and faculty conjure up. I know it is just their school of Education, but maybe it will spread. Here is a link to the article:


    More progress, but the other scum bag law schools are recruiting them.

  38. What a shitty industry. I hope the fuckers running the ABA know that they are scum.

    1. I almost went to this school. I kind of wish I did in the sense I would have had a lot less debt than the one I am going to now (even though CUNY's somewhat less 'prestigious'). The reason I didn't apply was they require 2 essays about why you want to work in public interest. I thought lying twice would be too much. Of course, at the time I had visions of big law dancing in my head, and public interest sounded incredibly dull.

  39. Can't believe no one pointed this out yet.

    The deceased in the cemetery across the street have a better chance to practice law than students enrolled at CUNY Law.

  40. With a cemetery right across the street and a tough inner city public high school nearby this school sounds like the perfect setting for the next Return of the Living Dead or Dawn of the Dead sequel. Zombies vs law students vs gang-bangers.

  41. I think it's great that the cemetery is across from the law school. There's probably a good amount of jobs available there, such as grounds keeper or headstone salesman. Heck, they might even need a lawyer to go after those kids who defaced that tombstone last week.

  42. They are beginning to discuss incorporating more clinics into 2nd and 3rd year, and it is a good idea (in my opinion, the 2nd and 3rd years should be nothing but clinics, supervised by practitioners, not professors).

    But leave it to law professors to distort and destroy a good idea by puffing it up with a lot of theoretical gobbledygook. The International Women's Human Rights Clinic sounds like something designed by a committee of pompous, politically ultra-correct jargon-emitting academics who have never practiced law a day in their lives.

    Why not engage in "gender jurisprudence" by simply training students to represent women on their criminal cases, their foreclosures, their contested divorces and custody disputes, their housing disputes, their bankrupcies, their personal injury lawsuits, ect, ect.? By training them to try a case and write an appeal?

    There are tons of master's and Ph.d programs that would be happy to take a student's money, and there he or she can read and write to heart's content on "the meaning of equality." Law school should be about training lawyers. Period.

  43. Although I attended law school over 20 years ago, this blog has opened my eyes to what a scam law school is today. I have read about International Law clinics, Animal rights clinics, Space law clinics, Woman's Rights clinics, Horse law and gender & law course offerings on this site. I mean I knew 3rd year of law school was complete bullshit but to offer such impractical as filler is unconscionable when students are paying nearly $50K a year to attend law school. As for CUNY, I am surprised they don't have a Deceased Right's Clinic. It would not surprise me if there are more bodies buried in that cemetery than there are CUNY law alumni working as real lawyers right now.

    Someone mentioned that CUNY law school is down the street from John Bowne High School. Well if you attend CUNY law school, you better arm yourself or take some karate because the teenagers next door are apparently violent vandals according to this NY Daily News article:

  44. So CUNY Law School is in trouble again. Not surprising. I went there --forced to, it was my safety school when another school application was lost-- and unfortunately learned that the place is packed with lies, from the brochures and school packaging, to the faculty/staff, and to the administration. So let's expand on these items, shall we?

    There were lots of student-administration clashes when I was there and even before and after. The catalog promoted a lot of things that did not exist. Such as courses that induced students to attend. Computer facilities were so-so but you would not believe it if you just read school statements. They actually defined "computer terminals" to include the wall jacks to pump up the numbers!

    The student body wasn't all that bright either (and writing ability was, well, eh...) The vast majority came from second or third tier college or university systems. Those who went to more well-regarded schools usually left by the end of the first year if possible, certainly by the second year to graduate elsewhere. I know it because I saw it. I also can demonstrate that CUNY Law School's reporting on the transfer rate is also a problem. They say 10 percent of the first-year class. Funny, I counted 20 percent when I was there. Who would you trust? Someone with an interest in accuracy or someone with a possible institutional motive?

    The library was also "fun." They had an open storage area in one part. Another thing was that they counted EACH MICROFILM as part of the library's volume count. What, don't have enough hard books?

    The administration/faculty will also try to stifle school criticism through strong-arm tactics. One way they attempted to do so is through the exam process. Student exam IDs (at least when I was there) are not computer generated and truly confidential. I know because I saw what went on in the office there, and I also got to read a supposedly confidential recommendation letter from a professor of mine. Another way is by manipulating course selections. If all else fails, they will pull you aside and say they "heard" something. The office of the Dean of Students or the Dean of Academic Affairs were known to do this.

    Jobs were also hard to get at this school, especially if you wanted to do something that did not channel into their sought-after mission. If that was the case, there would also be short notice about this opportunity. Career services in sum, was little more than your own effort.

    But about that bar passing rate situation, you know, that SMALL thing to become readily "employable." It's been a constant issue through out this school's time. Lots DON'T PASS. They don't pass although the school is GEARED TO TEACHING DOCTRINE ON THE BAR EXAM. YES, THEY TEACH FOR THREE YEARS WITH AN EMPHASIS TO THE BAR EXAM! They also don't pass despite having student support systems in writing, lawyering skills, and course subjects. And they also don't pass despite having a FREE BAR COURSE INCLUDED AS PART OF TUITION AND FEES AFTER GRADUATION!

    For these reasons and others, I hated this place. A landfill image is an insult to this place. It is a stinking, smoldering, shithole and I'm glad I'm no longer there.

    Fuck you Kristen Booth Glen, Mary Lu Bilek, Yvonne Cherena-Pacheco (admissions director on leave, wonder why?), John Cicero, Frank Deale, Pamela Edwards, Dinesh Khosla, Degna Levister, Jenny Rivera, Ruthann Robson, Joe Rosenberg, Franklin Siegel, Deborah Zalesne, and a whole bunch of people on staff or not --and if you were at CUNY Law and not mentioned here, fuck you too!

    FUCK CUNY. So glad to see it in the trouble it deserves! DO NOT GO THERE.


    On May 13, 2010, reporter Lisa W. Foderaro wrote an article for the New York Times, under the headline “Growth of CUNY Chancellor’s Salary Outpaces Rise in Faculty’s Pay.” Look at how much Pig Matthew Goldstein rakes in, as “chancellor” of CUNY:

    “In his 11 years as chancellor of the City University of New York, Matthew Goldstein has been credited with increasing enrollment, helping raise more than a billion dollars and restoring rigor and energy to a system that had seeped both for decades.

    He has also received a series of raises that have nearly doubled his base salary. His total compensation package, which includes a $90,000 housing allowance, is now just over $600,000. Last fall he was granted a 9 percent salary increase, at a time when some other college presidents had chosen to turn down raises out of support for campuses pinched by the economic downturn.

    The CUNY trustees, who determined the raises, say Dr. Goldstein is worth it. Benno C. Schmidt Jr., the board chairman, said that if anything, Dr. Goldstein was underpaid.”

    Only a revolting pig would make such an idiotic claim, about an academic making more than $600K per year. The piece continued:

    “What we have is a system in which presidential salaries on campus are compared to those of other C.E.O.’s,” said Dr. Curris, a past president of three universities, including Clemson. “Everyone wants to be at least average, so this creates upward pressure.”

    Dr. Goldstein’s latest raise came in the midst of one of the worst recessions in New York history. CUNY, which has 260,000 students in 11 senior colleges, 6 community colleges and several professional schools, is now facing more than $100 million in cuts under the budget proposed by Gov. David A. Paterson.”

    How did this “discussion” transpire, i.e. “Job prospects for graduates are in the toilet. Furthermore, CUNY students will compete with their counterparts from NYU, Columbia, Cornell, etc. - for shrinking employment opportunities. The state proposed huge budget cuts to the univer$iTTTy. I have an idea! We should increase Goldstein’s BIG-ASS salary!!!!”

    The article maintained:

    “Dr. [Barbara] Bowen, the union leader, complained that CUNY’s trustees had rammed through the raises for Dr. Goldstein and the other presidents. She said the trustees had not put the issue of compensation on the agenda for a public hearing last fall before the board meeting when they approved his latest raise.

    “We’ve noticed that in the most recent instance of raises that there’s been this pattern of shielding them from public scrutiny,” she said. “After the hearing but before the board meeting, they publish an addendum to the calendar, so there’s no opportunity to comment.”

    Do you see how “higher education” in America works?! It is for the benefit of administrators, “educators,” bureaucratic ass-hats, politicians/pawns, contractors, vendors - NOT the students, graduates or the public. The cockroaches simply want to increase your faith in this corrupt $y$tem.

  46. Someone contact George Romero, Wes Craven or Stephen King. I have a draft of the next generation horror flick.

    The year is 2036. Cooley, Inc. is the largest corporation in the United States, owning seventy five percent of the 500 ABA accredited law schools. CUNY Law school was acquired by the Cooley Corporation in 2023 and renamed Cooley University in New York (still CUNY).

    During a review of their enrollment numbers, CEO Chuck Lugnutz realizes that there are fewer applicants as a result of nearly 100% of the U.S. population now having a JD diploma-a feat that Cooley helped accomplish. CEO Lugnutz hires a group of scientists to set up a lab at Cedar Grove Cemetery to begin "Project Re-Animator." The goal of the project is to bring back the dead so that they too can enroll in law school and obtain a JD. During one of the experiments, a virus is released onto a group of cadavers that brings them back to life. The cadavers quickly eat the brains of the scientists and head across the street to CUNY law school.

    Owen Moore, a 3L at CUNY, sees the zombies eat his classmates' brains. Slowly, one by one, the zombies are eating all the law students. In order to save his life, Owen thrusts Professor Clarke (who is confined to a wheelchair) towards the mob of zombies. The zombies feast on Clarke's brains and begin to have violent convulsions. The zombies soon start to die. Using his brilliant critical thinking skills, which he used to ace the LSAT, Owen rushes to the faculty lounge and yells "Free Spring Rolls left over from the Pacific Law Students meeting in the atrium." The law professors run towards the atrium where Owen had trapped all the zombies. The zombies eat the law professors' brains and die.

    Epilogue: Owen is declared a hero and given the key to the city by Mayor Bloomberg (who is still alive thanks to cryogenics). Owen is also given a job as a groundskeeper at Cedar Grove. During one of his rounds, Owen sees a hand protruding from a grave. He approaches the hand and Professor Clarke's emerges and lunges at Owen (fade to black, you will have to wait for the sequel).

  47. Love the comments. Just look at all the creative souls on this blog. Hey, at least you didn't let law school beat the creativity out of you. Someone really should contact Wes Craven or Stephen King with your idea. Maybe you could get some royalties and pay off your student loan bills.

  48. ^^

    Very good, man, very good. Unfortunately, there is no female lead and consequently no romance or sex in the movie. Obviously, Owen has to be a female. She must have at least one scene of carnal sex with Clarke. And, of course, she blows him off before and after Clarke dies. Also, unlike American girls, she loves to swallow. I would cast Julia Roberts, Rene Russo, or Angelina Jolie for this role.

    I smell an Oscar.

  49. Rene Russo just looks like she could give excellent head. Am I wrong?

  50. 1:05PM here.

    This was only a preliminary treatment for a script. I agree there must be a female lead. I was thinking it could be a hot high school senior from John Bowne since it streches credibility to have a hot female law student.

    So far this is the cast I would have:

    Owen Moore: Jay Baruchel
    HS Senior Female lead: Selena Gomez (Flushing is very diverse so we need a latina)
    Professor Clarke: Anthony Hopkins
    Chuck Lugnutz: Bob Einstein
    Zombie No. 1: Danny Trejo
    Scientist No. 1: Rene Russo (She did star in Outbreak)
    Dean of CUNY Law: Curtis Armstrong

    I am seriously thinking of shopping this script.

  51. Ok guys, I am having a hard time deciding who will play Professor Clarke. My heart says Hopkins because he reminds me of how insufferable windbags law professors can be. Yet I am thinking Alan Rickman can also fill in Professor Clarke's role since his characters are often ueber douchetastic. Any feedback?

  52. You might want to have Professor Clarke brought back to life by the Tall Man from the Phantasm movies (who after all, hung around in cemeteries). By writing the story this way you can work another horror franchise (Phantasm) into your movie sequel, kind of like Aliens vs Predator.

  53. OK, lets expand this plot a bit. Lets throw in the mix Clint Eastwood and Morgan Freeman. They then mercilessly and publicly sadomize both Clarke and Lugnutz and then shoot them in the face (twice) to a great joy of all law students. To add an insult to this injury, lets cast Alec Baldwin to give them salesman speech from Glengarry Glen Ross.

    I am telling you, with the plot and cast like that, we are going straight for an Oscar.

  54. Working Title for the Script is: "Law School of a Thousand Corpora"

    The tagline for the movie will be: "Not even the vast size of their library can help you..."

  55. Second tagline: "The employment numbers may be sketchy, but the body count is real..."

  56. been involved in a fraud is unlikely to make people not want to study there as well
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  57. Could you have a scene where Rene Russo blows one of the zombies in the law library? That would be a plus.

  58. $90,000 a year housing allownace? That's $7,500 a month. As if on his salary he doesn't already afford housing. That is insane! This is proof that this whole education system is a bubble. After the housing crash how can people be so stupid? Why not start to fix things before it all crashes-and it will.

    And we are still all fed the "just go to college, and live a great life" lie.

  59. On September 6, 2011, Martha Neil wrote a piece for the ABA Journal entitled “CUNY Incubator Program to Help New Law Grads Go Solo Is Now a Model for Other Schools.” Here is an excerpt:

    “When the City University of New York School of Law established an incubator program in 2007 to help new law graduates establish themselves as solo practitioners, it was reportedly the first in the country to do so.

    But now others are following suit. Already, the University of Maryland School of Law and the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law have similar programs in place, reports the National Law Journal.”

    The school should be concerned that low bar passage rates will preclude many from practicing law - even as desperate solo practitioners. Of course, the pigs and rats running this place will only look at this from an in$TTTiTTTuTTTional perspective. They don't give a damn about the students or graduates.

    On January 3, 2012, New York Post reporter Yoav Gonenk authored an article, under the headline “CUNY law grads losing ‘bar’ fight.” What a great, descriptive title, for this story. Take a look at this opening:

    “The bar is getting lower for CUNY law graduates.

    Bar-exam pass rates for first-time test takers at CUNY have plummeted 16 percentage points in the past three years — boomeranging the school back to the bottom rank among New York’s law schools.

    The pass rate dropped from a record high of 83 percent in 2008 to 67 percent this year — the lowest pass rate at the CUNY School of Law since 2005.

    This year’s performance left the Flushing school an alarming 19 percentage points below the state’s 2011 average pass rate of 86 percent.

    CUNY also had its lowest number of first-time applicants taking the bar exam in recent years, 99, which was also well below the majority of New York’s 14 other accredited law schools.”

    Who wouldn’t view this public cesspool as an “elite institution”?!?!

  60. This has nothing to do with CUNY Law Sewer, but on someones advice I just looked at Not for the content of the website, but for the ad banner at the top of the website. The banner across the top of the webpage was an ad for Cooley Law Commode.

    And why not? Cooley already is the lowest common denominator of law schools, so why shouldn't they advertise on a website that appeals to the lowest common denominator.

    So maybe next year in Cooley's matriculating group of victims, someone will explain their story on why they went to law school like this: "I was looking at TMZ to see the pictures of Sofia Vergara's ass in see thru tights and I saw this ad for a law school and I figured what the hell? And so here I am."

    Maybe they can start putting advertisements on truck stop condom machines. Then someday they could have students explain their enrollment at Cooley like this: "I was getting a french tickler to use on the lot lizard that came up to me when I was parked at the truck stop in Kenosha and I saw the Cooley ad and figured what the hell..."

  61. Let me get this straight. 67% of this commode's grads passed the bar in 2011 but it boasts an 81% employment rate? Something is wrong with these numbers.

    Also, with respect to the "Incubator Program:" How can you incubate something that is already aborted (such as a CUNY law grad's career)?

  62. This is a CV of someone who went to Cooley shitlaw. Obviously, the guy had a piece of shrapnel in this head from the days of service in the US military. Otherwise how do you explain his deliberate decision to destroy his own career. With a shitlaw degree he had no choice but to go back to Cooley.

  63. Im thinking about going to University of Buffalo - any thoughts on this Nando?

    Will you feature u of B at some point??

  64. The picture you represented is a bit extreme in comparison.

  65. I graduated from CUNY Law in 1987, the second class. For me & other students, it was fine. We were older-I was 34 in 1987 & had a family & home in NYC. In July 1987 I passed the NY & CT Bar exams, taught one year in SUNY, then worked a year at a downtown firm, then spent 4 years in the DAs office & did many hearings and trials, bench & jury. Since 19994 I've been in private practice with a very modest income. But I concede the legal landscape has significantly changed. The depreciation of the JD degree is in evidence. One of my kid's friends declined CUNY Law's admission offer & other SOL offers recently for that reason.

    Good luck to those in law school. The education is never a waste.

    Having recently visited the new SOL in LIC, it was quite attractive; airy, light filled & the decor was spare but inviting.

  66. This school is shittier than shit. The only thing shittier are the dumbshits defending it.

  67. I agree that people should think about their expectations prior to attending law school. Obviously some people think that having a law school degree is a quick route to being a millionaire. It isn't so. The reality is that being an attorney is a job and that while some in the profession make a tremendous amount of money (in exchange for committing a lot of time), the huge majority of attorneys only make a decent salary and some make below that.

    I also think that CUNY should increase their standards for admission. Having attended CUNY, I know some of the students probably should not have been accepted.

    As to expectations, in general some people are completely irrational. I work for the USG and I come into contact with numerous JDs working in attorney and non-attorney positions. An officer in my office told me she had $150,000 in school loans after having gotten a free ride to a law school in Idaho. How is that possible? One of the 2L interns at my job recently indicated that she was thinking applying for a 6 month exchange program in Paris. She thought it would be a great experience and would only need to borrow an additional $100,000. She attends a second tier law school. She indicated that it was a lot of money but that she would be able to pay it back someday. Do they have real expectations on salary after graduation, I don't think so?

    I read above where someone indicated that they had $70,000 in law school loans from CUNY. Seems a little outrageous. Below is this years cost for CUNY - Law.

    2013-2014 Full-Time rates per semester**

    New York State Residents Non-Residents

    Base Tuition $6,380 $10,600
    Materials Fee $700
    Technology Fee $100
    Consolidated Fee $15
    Student Activity Fee $40.85
    Total $7,235.85 $11,455.85

    I went to CUNY. My expectations were not high. I worked as a janitor while I attended school. My under-grad and law-school loans combined were $47,000. My expectations upon completion were to get a decent job. I did. I started working for the USG as an officer, put in my time and got an attorney position 8 years later. As an officer with the USG, my salary was over $110,000. Its higher as an attorney.

    One other piece of advice. If you are really hurting on student loans, go be a contract attorney for a couple of years. I did it. As a contract in NYC I made between 1,200 and 3,000 a week. The amount you make really depends on the type of schedule you are willing to make. You do that for a year or 2 after graduation and you can wipe your CUNY law debt out. Having zero loans and a law degree allows you to do a whole lot.

    And lets get down to the reality of the situation. If you are going to attend any CUNY school, don't expect a high profile job. I don't regularly hear about many other CUNY school graduates becoming the CEO of a fortune 500 company. Why would you expect CUNY law to get you a CLO job? It doesn't happen.

    1. How about that famous defense attorney on fox news Arthur Aidala?

  68. CUNY Law is a festering shit heap. And that's being kind. CUNY is basically the community college of NY law schools. If you come here, the best you can expect is doc review. (Obviously, this doesn't apply to rich dummies who couldn't get into a real law school. Those assholes will land nice jobs thanks to their parents.)

  69. It's all an immoral numbers game with CUNY and the students are used as collateral. Its supposed to be about "justice" so the element of immorality should not exist. Luckily I have the ability to transfer soon and will not stay at this school.

  70. Why is it so important to work for fortune 500 companies or corporate firms? Support small businesses.

  71. I went to CUNY and think I'm pretty successful and happy. So are my friends from school. After three years working in compliance, I'm now counsel for a Fortune 500 company, making six figures. My friends from school are court attorneys, federal regulators, and consultants. They're all successful and happy. The vast majority of my classmates work in New York City, serving the underprivileged. They're not rich, but they're doing what they want to do. I thought my CUNY education was very rigorous and I now work with, and am respected by, colleagues who went to NYU, Brooklyn and other prestigious schools. Also, I passed the bar first try. I believe the bar pass rates are low because CUNY makes a point of admitting a portion of students for whom English is a second language.

    1. I'm a current student at CUNY. This blog made me feel terrible. Thanks for posting a different narrative. I picked this school because of my passion for Social Justice and I appreciate your comment pushing back on the idea that we're just idiots who couldn't get in anywhere else and who won't ever succeed.


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