Thursday, March 29, 2012

First Tier Shart: Fordham University School of Law

This school produced the piece of trash known as Melvin Schweitzer, the idiot who recently dismissed the class action lawsuit against NYL$.  He earned his law degree from Fordham in 1969. Check out his 35 page POLITICAL DECISION here.

Tuition: Students attending this private toilet on a full-time basis will pay $47,360 in tuition alone, for the 2011-2012 school year! Fees add another $626 to the big-ass tab. Part-time law students at Fordham University will only face a tuition bill of $35,520 - for 2011-2012. Fees will amount to $536, for this segment of the class.

Total Cost of Attendance: The commode estimates that room and board, books and supplies, travel and miscellaneous expenses will reach $25,587. Keep in mind that these bitches and hags only take nine-month living expenses into account, when calculating this figure. Seeing that actual students will require twelve-month living costs, we can prorate and determine a more accurate, total COA - for 2011-2012 - of $81,532. That is a small ransom! Who has that type of money lying around?!?!

Ranking: Based on this prohibitive price tag, this school MUST be one of the greatest, most prestigious institutions of “higher learning” in the United States, right?!?! Well, according to the ball-less shills at US “News” & World Report, Fordham Univer$ity SOL is ranked as the 29th most wondrous, fantastic and amazing law school in the nation. Actually, it shares this rating with four other schools.

Supposed Employment Placement Statistics: The commode claims that 99% of its graduates, from the Class of 2010, reported their employment status. Among these respondents, the school asserts an employment rate of 93.1 percent, within nine months of graduation.

Check out this fine print disclosure, on the bottom of the page:

“*14.7% of those reporting employment status indicating that they were employed nine months after graduation, were employed in public sector placements funded by the Law School.” [Emphasis mine]

This is one hell of an indictment, against the industry. Remember that this is a “top 30” law school. Imagine the employment situation at lower-tiered institutions.  Furthermore, the dung pit admitted that many of their grads in private practice had their hiring dates deferred by a few months to a year - but that NALP that schools can count them as employed, if they were volunteering at public sector employers.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Fordham Univer$ity JD Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $131,648. According to this document, 76 percent of this school’s unfortunate 2011 class took on such toxic debt. Keep in mind that this figure does not take undergraduate debt into account.

Law Faculty and Administrator Salary Info: Let’s see how well these academic pigs are doing, in comparison to their debt-strapped graduates. For this information, scroll down to the last page of Fordham University’s 2010 Form 990. By the way, on line 12 of page 1, you can see that this supposedly “non-profit institution” had $568,673,074 in total revenue, for the tax year ending on June 30, 2010. On line 22, note that this university reported net assets or fund balances of $705,250,265. That’s not bad, for a Jesuit “non-profit,” huh?!?!

William Treanor, dean of the law sewer, “earned” $483,356, in TOTAL COMPENSATION - for this tax year alone. Thomas Lee, “Leitner Family professor of law,” made $367,584 in TOTAL COMPENSATION. Lastly, Sheila Foster raked in $338,438 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, as “Associate Dean for Academic Affairs, Albert A. Walsh Professor of Law, Co-Director Stein Center for Law & Ethics.” That is a mouthful. What great salaries, and all they had to do was financially ruin several young people.

Conclusion: Fordham University Sewer of Law is GROSSLY OVERPRICED. Seeing that the schools and their shills feel that prospective students should perform more research, when making their decision on whether to attend law school, look at the links provided in this post. This school truly is a gamble, and YOU are not playing with house money. If your parents, spouse, friends or co-workers pressure you to move forward, remind them that your ass is on the line. YOU will be the one who is left to repay $135K-$170K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - with interest - NOT them.

At such debt levels, most of your student loans will be privately held. This means that you will face higher interest rates. Avoid this school, UNLESS: (a) your debt level will be minimal; (b) you have employment lined up beforehand; and (c) you or your family has STRONG business or political connections.


  1. I swear when I saw that picture, I could actually smell shit.

  2. It's about fuckin' time you got to this skool.

    1. I actually went to this school. Everything on this blog is SPOT ON, truth. It's funny, when I post on other blogs (like and tell it like it is, I get a bunch of nasty responses from students and alumni calling me a loser, etc. etc. Now I know what Foster treated me like shit when I wrote her some emails-anyone making that kind of money doesn't NEED to work at all.

      The faculty, etc. treat the students like crap, charge them through the nose, then treat you even worse when you can't get a job. Terrible terrible decision to go to this rathole

  3. Look at those 2010 placement stats! No raw numbers. No full-time/part-time segmentation. No long-term/short-term segmentation. No category of "full-time bar-required."

    Here is another little way they cheat. They indicate that 12.5% got judicial clerkships. However, this is 12.5% out of the category of employed (93.1%): therefore, only 11.6%. They slightly inflate their placement stats by reporting the percentage of a percentage, and hope that it is not noticed.

    However, in one category they report the percentage of the overall class-- the category of "employed in public sector placements funded by the Law School." 14.7% hold such positions nine months out. Unlike the other categories that is 14.7% out of the total class, not just out of the 93.1% employed. Also, unlike the other categories, that of "job funded by the law school" is banished to a footnote.

    No wonder the Law School Transparency Project assigns Fordham a letter grade of "F" for transparency-- a distinction achieved by only 82 of 200 law schools.

    How fortunate that Fordham has, on its faculty, a $300K+/yr professor of legal ethics. For that salary, she must be some kind of ethics prodigy--a combination of Immanuel Kant and Atticus FInch. Maybe somebody should consult her on the ethics of Fordham's lack of disclosure.

  4. This is a trap school. Keep getting the word out there and go higher up the food chain. It's not just the TTTs that are scamming the student and the taxpayer. I didn't see any average salary data on that link either.

  5. first tier shart??


  6. This school has always been a toss-up in terms of graduate outcomes. On the one hand, I am friends with a judge who graduated from Fordham Law but his appointment had more to do with his political connections than his alma mater. I also know a few Biglaw partners that attended Fordham Law in the 80s and early 90s.

    The school itself is hardly impressive. The building is rather old (although I heard it was recently "refurbished") and I saw traces of mold on near the lower floors where some classes are conducted.

    This school justified its pricetag in the past because it was a Biglaw feeder for the top third of its graduates. I hear now that you have to crack the top 10% to land Biglaw. I know someone who graduated from this school 4 years ago. He landed Biglaw but only lasted 2 years as he was diagnosed with Cancer and the firm let him go. He owes over $200K. I feel bad for the guy because he has a good heart. And that is where my blood boils-this school takes advantage of the naivety of clueless, sorry sophisticated consumers, kids. No one deserves to get saddled with this type of debt and low career prospects.

    Tip: If you attend or are going to attend Fordham, do not live on campus. You will take another 30K just to live near Columbus Circle, which is a nice area. If you choose to live on campus, enjoy living like a king for 3 years because I guarantee you will be living in some rathole in Corona, Queens if you are a lottery "winner" and land Biglaw. You have been warned.

  7. "Avoid this school, UNLESS: (a) your debt level will be minimal; (b) you have employment lined up beforehand; and (c) you or your family has STRONG business or political connections."

    If you have strong business and political connections with employment lined up and minimal debt... Just get a good job and save money. Fuck law school.

    That's what I'm doing. I mean, for anyone in any situation, law school just doesn't make sense in terms of the bottom line. I literally dropped out because it left me richer at the end of my life. That's why. I think most people face those same cost/benefit factors.

    Jesus, what a scam. Not even *talking* about Washington Post's for profit scams, which are even worse...

  8. "This school produced the piece of trash known as Melvin Schweitzer, the idiot who recently dismissed the class action lawsuit against NYL$. He earned his law degree from Fordham in 1969"

    Love it!

  9. 'If you have strong business and political connections with employment lined up and minimal debt... Just get a good job and save money. Fuck law school.'

    Best piece of advice I've ever seen on law school. So if you're rich, forget this credential. If you're trying to impress mommy and daddy, get a life. Instead of having them shell out $140K for your tuition, ask for the money and invest that shit. Be your own boss. If you make it big, no one's gonna judge you for being a rich kid that had everything handed to him.

    A law degree is not gonna impress women over the age of 30 either. Not when their biological clock is ticking. By then, they don;t wanna be with Joe Shitlawyer making $40K per year. They'd rather be with an office manager at a (dare I say?) fucking call center making $80k.

  10. Off topic, but a must read on UST law.


  11. ABA is considering banning bullshit employment stats. The new proposed Standard 509 would link accreditation (read: ability to get the student loan gravy train to stop at their school) to provision of honest and complete employment data in a conspicuous place on the school's web site. Comments are due to the ABA by April 27, 2012. Here's the ABA's comment notice:

  12. By the way, can someone look at these bullshit employment stats from Georgetown and tell me whether they can possibly be true?

  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

  14. ^^^^ Typos sorry:

    But Where was it I read, that the Law School at whatever University pulls in the greatest profit, and in some cases even props up the respective University as a whole?

    Reason being: Student Loan easy Government handout money?

    In any event, messages of this nature cannot be repeated enough.

    Redundancy is the backbone of blogging, and that is partly why I have decided that I am in for a penny, and in for a pound with respect to blogging.

    We are not so much "scambloggers" as others call us, as we are Human Rights bloggers.

  15. Look at these law journals, offered by Fordham University, supposedly and arrogantly billed as "The Jesuit University of New York":

    "The Fordham Urban Law Journal, now in its 39th year, is the second oldest publication at the law school. The Journal annually publishes between five and six books which address policy issues affecting urban areas."

    As a student at this first tier toilet, you have the opportunity to write onto the “world-renowned” and “prestigious” Fordham Urban Law Journal. Imagine the responses from employers and beautiful women, upon hearing that you are a student editor of this publication, i.e. they will continue to ignore your ass.

    "The Fordham Urban Law Journal is proud to announce the launch of its first-ever, full-fledged website. “City Square,” the Journal‘s online companion, is a competitive and lively arena showcasing meaningful “back-and-forth” between the nation’s top legal scholars. City Square features five literary discussions at a time and is regularly updated with new content."

    The commode also publishes a website referred to as "City Square." If you ever have difficulty going to sleep, click on the link above - and read some of the discussions between anal academics. You should be out, within five minutes. (Hell, maybe the “non-profit” sewage pit is performing a public service, after all.)

    “According to surveys compiled by Washington & Lee University, in 2008 the IPLJ was the number one ranked entertainment, arts and sports law journal, and the number sixth ranked intellectual property law journal. IPLJ articles have been read into the Congressional Record, as well as cited in the Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and in amicus briefs to the U.S. Supreme Court.”

    Who wouldn't want to write onto the illustrious Fordham Intellectual Property, Media and Entertainment Law Journal?!?! By the way, did the school decide that the periodical's title would be ridiculous, if animal rights law was a component of this TTTT law review?

    This is beyond comical. Hosting the alleged number one rated “entertainment, arts and sports law journal” is akin to a dating woman who has the best arches, among all of her girlfriends. Who gives a damn? On second thought, in the latter case, some may notice. Furthermore, even if you are shelling out money so she can own dozens of fancy shoes, it will come nowhere near $135K-$160K in debt.


    when will you profile BC?
    where one has to suck the right cock to get a job?

  17. Get to the Texas schools. You've already covered enough east coast schools.

    I can you can this. I've lived in TX before (Houston for 12 years) and the market for lawyers was shitty then. Now when I see a baby lawyer I want to give him a dollar or some quarters. The poor fucks.

  18. Law school is about as shitty a decision as going to art school or getting a Masters in the humanities.

    1. it's worse...
      people in the humanities bond better than those in law school. you are there because you have common interests. the art school/humanities people are actually better

  19. And employers aren't gonna hold a humanities degree against you. They might think you're a lightweight, but they're not gonna worry that you'll sue them or cause them to scrap projects.

  20. My ex wife went to here and graduated in 2002. Guess what happened to her? She got into biglaw, but got let go when they found out she was pregnant. Something about not being able to bring in enough billable hours. Yep. They don't mention that shit to you when you're in orientation, do they? Anyway, after our son was born, she went to work for the state comptroller's office. her family had some connections. This school was a gamble then. Now it's Russian roulette.

    1. Connections? They don't require civil service exams?

  21. Take a look at this data, compiled by Paul Campos, tenured law professor at the University of Colorado-Boulder. He posted this info on his March 12, 2012 entry, under the header "Law school numbers":

    "Number of 2010 Fordham law school graduates employed by the law school nine months after graduation:


    The author also mentions the following, with regard to this first tier toilet:

    "The Fordham number is the kind of thing that should get even students currently still within the 1L bubble stirred up. Simple math suggests that current Fordham law students are paying about a thousand bucks apiece to fund essentially fictitious jobs for Fordham grads, to fluff up the school's employment rate. (No doubt this money is for accounting purposes coming out of the sort of discretionary slush fund that sloshes around deans' offices, rather than directly from student tuition. But money is fungible)."

    This further shows that Fordham Univer$ity Sewer of Law is a festering dung pit. Seeing that this suppposed top 30 law school is resorting to these measures, imagine the employment outlook for those attending lower-tiered, ABA-accredited trash heaps. If this information hurts your feelings, lemming, then you need therapy. This data is provided to benefit you.

    Unlike the law schools, I have no financial stake in your decision. If you incur an additional $70K or $170K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, it does not add one cent to my overall student debt. In contrast, the pigs who are trying to sell you on the idea of attending their dung heap have a direct intere$t in making sure that you enroll. Do you really want to become SERIOUSLY indebted, so that you can contribute to a dean's bloated salary?!?!

  22. all the costs aside, law is just a shitty profession..most of us represent the shittiest of shit human beings and if we can manage to keep from destroying our health and keep our license as the State Bar will take it for any reason, by the time you pay back your loans and make real money, which is no guarantee, you are so bitter and destroyed mentally, that you would have been better off pretending to be a minority(I tan well so i tell everyone i am american indian when it helps me) and working for the gvt doing nothing while making more then you would in the private sector.

    When I graduated 20 years ago, you could go to a shit school and have reasonable loans, and while the practice bs was not as bad as it is now for new lawyers, and still make money if you stuck it out for a career.

    Law is a 30 plus year investment and it is more risky now. You will have no job prospects or if you do get one, unless you are a gvt minority loser, you will have to go on your own to make enough money to justify the financial risk and emotional heartache. This is not a job where you get an entry level position and work your way up to equity partner and enjoy the country club life. You will be abused by experienced lawyers in your own firm and you will either leave the profession, pretend to be a minority to get a gvt job, or take on further debt to go on your own with even more risk and bs.

    I have lived this shit for 20 plus years lemmings and I have probably done better then most in my generation, but with school loans cheaper 20 years ago, it is easier for guys my age to walk away from the profession. Now with the increased cost, worse job market, and a system that has destroyed the value of legal services, unless you are connected, a real risk taker, or just a total moron, going to law school and practicing law is not good for kids now economically or emotionally.

    Dont look at the guy with 20 years experience, a 7 Series BMW, and a bitch wife, and think you can get those things and be happy. Its all a front and its not as easy to even get all that worthless shit with a crazy wife added on. I know. I live the shit. My cousins dad used to sell Encyclopedias door to door 50 years ago and made good money but that profession died with the internet. Law is dying too. Its not worth it and I will tell my kids the same. Its not worth the bullshit and an early grave for a profession that causes you to interact with the shittiest of shit.

    Id give a class on it for dummies but no one listens until they are broke and bitter and past their prime getting left overs of divorcees who fucked and reproduced with the redneck down the road when their bodies were tight and their mans best quality was a truck with oversized tires and his own contracting business that never paid a dime in tax to the gvt.

  23. Glad to see this. I'm a Fordham law drop-out. I attended during the 2010-2011 academic year. I knew already in March-April that I should drop out, but did not actually go through with it until 2 weeks before the start of 2L (luckily, you have until the end of the first week to get all your money back for the semester, so I "only" flushed the ~48k of my first year down the toilet). A relative of mine, who graduated in the top third of his class at Fordham in 2011 is currently working under the "Fordham fellowship"- basically, the school is paying a judge to let him clerk, and sure enough, this "fellowiship" suddenly materialized as he was approaching the 9-month mark since graduation with nary a job in sight- gee, how convenient.
    At the moment, I'm home with my kid, deciding what to do next career-wise, but I am so glad I left when I did. My husband initially complained about how I was giving up the chance to make the big bucks, but seeing the situation of the aformentioned relative, he now understands that my decision to drop out saved our family from near-certain financial ruin.

    1. Hey, for 48K, you can use "aforementioned" in a sentence. They can't take that away from you. I think you made the right choice. Your prospects are no worse now, and your debt is relatively light. Meanwhile, the schools will keep pushing bullshit employment stats until the lenders wise up and yank the plug on all of them.

  24. @ FLS drop-out,

    Thank you for sharing your experience at this overpriced dung heap. You clearly made the right decision, to leave this commode. Your cousin may have the “credential” on his resume, but he apparently had to take advantage of Fordham’s ARTIFICIALLY ENHANCED EMPLOYMENT PLACEMENT RATE PROGRAM.

    For everyone else, please head to the link below. Take a look at the long list of post-graduate “fellowships.” In reality, this is an admission that many of Fordham’s law grads cannot find employment on their own. By the way, how the hell does such a “placement” help one who has $135K-$170K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt?!?! (If you say “They will gain valuable experience,” go jump in front of traffic.)

    “Project –Based Fellowships: The majority of these fellowships are awarded by two organizations, Equal Justice Works and the Skadden Fellowship Foundation.

    Equal Justice Works (EJW) has one of the largest national public interest fellowship programs providing financial and technical support to lawyers working on innovative and effective legal projects. EJW funds approximately 50 fellows annually. The two-year fellowships offer salary and generous loan repayment assistance, a national training and leadership development program, and other support. Fellows develop and launch projects with host non-profit organizations that benefit individuals or groups and/or promote issues not otherwise adequately represented by the legal system.

    Skadden Foundation Fellowship (Skadden) awards some 30-35 fellowships yearly to graduating law students and outgoing judicial clerks. Fellows provide legal services to the working poor, elderly, homeless and disabled, as well as to those deprived of their human or civil rights. In recent years, fellows have also worked on issues concerning economic development and community renewal. The aim of the foundation is to give fellows the freedom to pursue their interests in public interest work. Fellowships are for one year, with the expectation of renewal for a second year. For those fellows not covered by a law school loan repayment assistance program, the firm will pay a fellow's law school debt for the duration of the fellowship.”

    Here are some more examples of this school’s employment placement rate program:

    “Fordham Law School Sponsored Fellowships. Fordham Law sponsors the James E. Tolan Fellowship in International Human Rights is a post-graduate Fellowship that will fund a Fordham Law School graduate to work for an international human rights organization for one year. Three Tolan fellowships were awarded in 2009.

    Law School Based/Clinical Fellowships: A growing number of law schools are offering fellowships to work in clinical programs. The Comprehensive Fellowship Guide has a section of such fellowships. One of the largest such programs is based at Georgetown University Law Center, through its Clinical Graduate Fellowship Opportunities in Teaching & Advocacy which offer new and experienced attorneys the opportunity to combine study with practice in the fields of clinical legal education and public interest advocacy. Each fellowship is associated with one of the Law Center's clinical programs.”

  25. for those who are really interested in public service, these fellowships will be of great help. for those who have huge loans to pay off, no.
    I know someone who graduated (with honors) a few years ago from a T25 in a good market (hence would have gotten a firm job) taking a few of these fellowships and is now working at an international agency. Another is a securities officer witht he government.

    The bad thing is that a lot of these, which can actually provide some help to those in need, will be taken up by the aforementioned people. I know rather decent people who could not even get help from their own schools!! I am not joking.

  26. Clinics and apprenticeships (aka fellowships) should not be the icing on the cake of legal education. They should be the entire cake.

    Law school should kick off with a bar review-like crash course to teach core doctrine fast. After that, law students should spend the next two years undergoing a structured series of apprencticeships--supervised by real practitioners, not by six-figure-salaried "law professors" who wouldn't know a courtroom from a faculty lounge.

    Lawyers should graduate with the ability to do most of the following: try a case, write an appeal, defend a foreclosure, handle a personal injury suit, handle a contested divorce case, and conduct a criminal defense--maybe not with the expertise that only comes from experience, but with a basic level of competence that can be built upon, as well as with local contacts.

    Law school apologists often assert that a clinical model would be more costly than the current Socratic/caselaw/hide-the-ball model of legal education. Don't believe a word of it. Unlike law professors, adjunct practitioners would not require six-figure salaries plus benefits to supervise some law students, and they wouldn't need a 70 million dollar building in which to provide instruction. When I was with the appeals division of the public defender, we ran an excellent clinic in a nearby law school and our only rumuneration was parking privileges.

    A clinical model would graduate lawyers with far less debt, and with the ability to make, at least, some money from the moment of bar admission because they already have solo-practice skills. Moreover, nonlegal employers would respect a law degree that represents actual skills. (Whereas now they, quite properly, despise a law degree because it represents elite expectations).

  27. This person knows his shit. Adjuncts can teach clinical courses for cheap. The students would learn how to practice law. The way it is now most of these boys and girls don't learn how to draft a fucking motion, let alone argue one.

  28. 1:05 makes really good points. A doctrinal crash course followed by hands on learning is the way to go for most law students. Its what most law students probably want from law school. Law schools will never go for it, though. Its cheaper for the schools to jam 75 people into a room to listen to a blowhard professor opine about International Shoe than to have actual practitioners teach students about what to do in court, how to handle and get paid by clients, where to file documents, how to manage time, how to draft useful documents and all the rest of the things that actual lawyers do.

    I started law school in 2001. Tuition was 23k then. The same TT now charges 42k a year. From what I know, nothing about the education has changed. Maybe the profs have come up with 19k worth of new insights into International Shoe, Palsgraf, the Carbolic Smoke Ball case, the Coase Theorem and the Rule Against Perpetuities. That must be it.

  29. A few years ago, my alma mater contacted me about possibly advising a clinic in my field of expertise. I was excited about the prospect of working with law students and actually teach them skills since classroom instruction is mostly bullshit. Anyway, the law school wanted a professor to "supervise" me. I quickly declined the appointment and told my school that I felt insulted by having a professor, who is unknown in my field and doesn't know any of the judges or courts like I do, "supervise" me. The bottom line is that law school does not teach you how to be a lawyer. Your A grade in "Feminism and the Law" means shit to me.

    1. It's probably a good idea that you declined. One of the better profs I had in law school was an adjunct. I think he got a lot of flak because he actually taught at his alma mater (Fordham), and not Yale or something. Bottom line: for some reason credentials are more respected than teaching ability at law schools.

  30. Wow 23k to 42k in a decade?????


  31. The costs are too high. And there aren't even jobs for the yearly influx of newly admitted lawyers. How can anyone justify spending $34,000 or $47,000 on one year of tuition in light of the shrinking job market. It's madness. And that's the true story.

  32. Fordham is a shithole law school. 'nuff said.

    1. If a so-called Top Thirty school in a market like New York has to resort to hiring its graduates to fluff up its employment statistics, that's a pretty sad indictment of everything: the school, the market for lawyers and the economy generally.

      But, hey, if you go to FLS, you can hang around Lincoln Center.

      The irony is that the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, a CUNY school, is right down the street and its graduates probably have better job prospects in their field than FLS (or just about any other law school) graduates have in theirs.

  33. Hey Nando, whatever happened to your arch nemesis Kimber "Sellout" Russell? Speaking of other foils, whatever became of Jack Whittington? You remember him? The kid who went to Cooley then transferred to Tulsa and flunked the Texas bar exam while earning a living selling cars. This was the same kid who called scambloggers idiots and said he would show the world how he would become a top "Sports" lawyer. You should do an update on these clueless Stockholm Syndrome victims.

  34. I give you credit. A lot of your scamblog buddies haven't done shit after getting the NYT to slam law schools. Keep at it.

  35. Law school is stressful enough. Finding a job shouldn’t make it worse. I work with JD Match, a company striving to add some much needed sanity to the recruiting process. Using a sophisticated matching algorithm, they can help you be discovered by employers looking for what you have to offer. Visit their site to see how it works, sign up for a free membership, and get some control over the recruitment process.

  36. Stressed out about getting a good job? Take your job search into your own hands…with a little help. JD Match provides a free online service that uses a proprietary matching algorithm to match students with firms and firms with students. See for yourself today at

    1. How do you get the firms to divulge their data?

  37. With these kinds of arguments, how could Big Law say no to you? HOW!?

    So I toured the school this week, and I have to say it's no Harvard or Stanford, and yes the building is old (though it will be replaced by a new one this coming fall), but the arguments you bring up against this school is true for any higher education - law, engineering, liberal arts & sciences, business...

    The problem is that 80% of the college going population don't belong there. Do you think that a Yale grad that gets into a big law firm will have to work any fewer hours or put in any less effort? NO! The issue with law is that there are more lawyers than people willing to pay big $$ for. This does not mean that there isn't a high demand for people that can interpret and practice the law.

    Fordham puts itself out there as a public services law school and should not be looked at in any other way. Can you get into a big law firm from Fordham? Yes you can, but you will work 20 hours a day just like every other big law firm lawyer.
    When I toured the school, I met a girl that told me she applied fresh out of college and applied to 30 such schools. Do I condone such behavior? NO! But it happens because people think that the point of going to law school is getting big $$ later. It's not true in any school.

    You say that you should only consider going if you are already well connected... Well, building your network is necessary no matter what your profession is. But most law school students apply straight out of undergrad. What they should have done was spend 1-2 years working first, then decide if law school is for them. In fact, many law schools value such experience, and some make it almost a requirement. Guess what, 99% of jobs out their require smudging your nose with a bit of brown stuff, and 100% of big law requires that you stick your head in the toilet and take a bite (to use the medium referred to in this blog).

    So you plan to go to Fordham after all, and you want to work for Big Law? Then do yourself a favor and learn to network. Don't get piss drunk every weekend, spend some weekends actually building a career plan.

    And don't forget, law schools are designed to teach you how to interpret the law - internships (where you do more than get coffee) are designed to teach you how to practice it. So make sure you spend your summers interning.

    I speak from experience, I am 27 years old, I make 6 figures, and I got an engineering degree from a no name college (and I worked hard for it). Now I find that I will have to get an education in law to take the next step.

    Today it's 10 times worse, since most students go to grad school because they just can't find a job (at least one that doesn't involve arrange fruits and vegetables), so their university hires them. The fact that Fordham takes care to give their students employment if they find it hard to do so in the market speaks loud.

  38. ^^^ clueless tool.

    Bla bla bla; bottom line: be sure to deposit $200K + interest from your bank account into Fordham's.

    O great 6 figure salary man! What does that buy you in New York City? 600 square feet?


  39. ^^ the idea that a six figure income can't secure a good living in new york shows that you, in fact, have cottage cheese for brains.

  40. I graduated from here in 2009. I went on a large scholarship and graduated summa. I was able to find a job, but that is only because of my standing. Most people in my class had a difficult time finding a job. I agree with the article written here, and urge people not to attend law school. If you are able to get into a top 25 with a big or full scholarship, though, then I'd say to attend. But be prepared to work because you won't get anywhere without a good standing.

  41. I am a 3L at Fordham with zero prospects in sight.


    Only those on Law Review or did really well in Moot Court have a big law gig.

    Some smart folks with great GPA's did not land a big law gig with over 200k in debt.

    The icing on the cake is that it's hard to find ANY legal job. Fordham offers NO advantage as compared to Cardozo, Bklyn etc. While Fordham might place more Big law folks (says 20%-30% versus 10% at those schools), out side of big law Fordham is not seen as "better." The Rankings only matter for big law.


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