Wednesday, April 11, 2012

The Smell of Foul Desperation: Third Tier Trash Pit Stetson University College of Law Extends Its Application Deadline to July 1st

Click at the image above. The text reads as follows:

“Stetson University College of Law
Application Deadline Extended to July 1
 Accepting June LSAT scores • Application Fee Waived

Earn your law degree in a balanced environment with the nation’s #1-ranked advocacy program, outstanding professors and a friendly atmosphere. With full-time and part-time programs, Stetson prepares lawyers through practical experience, leadership training and public service.

Stetson Law offers concentrations in advocacy, elder law, environmental law, and international law, as well as outstanding clinic and internship opportunities. An excellent legal education prepares students to effectively seek justice in the world – we offer outstanding study abroad programs in eight countries.

Take a virtual tour of our campus • www.law.stetson.edu/tour

Apply today”

What a putrid embarrassment. Look, the school was able to employ “outstanding” twice in one short paragraph. Use a thesaurus, morons. By the way, how many of your recent grads are practicing “international law”?! When a school proudly proclaims that it prepares attorneys to go into “public service,” you KNOW that it is a trash heap.

When I first read this, I laughed my ass off, for a solid five minutes. Does this TTT offer conjure up images of used car salesmen barking at you, on late night commercials?!?! “Come right in! We’ll give you the best deal in town!! Poor credit?! No credit?! No problem! We finance EVERYONE!! Come by bus or taxi, and leave in a beautiful “previously-owned” vehicle, at a GREAT deal!”

http://www.law.stetson.edu/admissions/financial/tuition-and-fees.php

Tuition and Fees: Notice how the bitches and hags list tuition, by semester. According to the commode, full-time students at this dung pit will pay $36,168 in tuition and fees – for the 2012-2013 school year. Part-time law students at Stetson “University” will only be charged $25,068, for 2012-2013. What a bargain, huh?!?!

http://www.law.stetson.edu/admissions/financial/estimated-student-budget.php

Total, Estimated Cost of Attendance: The cesspool provides an estimated student budget, for its law students/victims. Does anyone else see the school estimates that nine-month rent will only equate to $5,974? Are these students going to have five roommates, or live in a broom closet? (Apparently, they will also not eat very much, either.)  Then again, the school mentions the following, in the fine print: “The Fall/Spring budget for new students is based on a nine-month period living with double occupancy accommodation.”

Since the dung heap provided summer costs, I will use their figures to determine twelve month COA, for a full-time $TTTeTTT$on law student – for 2012-2013. To be fair, I will not count summer tuition and fees, or books and supplies – since most will presumably not be taking summer courses. Relying on this data, a full-time law student can expect a total COA of $63,009, for the upcoming year. If you have a spouse or children, these costs will be significantly higher.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5

Ranking: As you can see, US “News” & World Report rates $TTTeTTT$on Univer$iTTTy Commode of Law as the 119th most majestic, astounding and prestigious law school in the entire nation!  At that level, why aren't the pigs charging $40K, in annual tuition?!

http://www.law.stetson.edu/about/home/profile.php

Pathetic Employment Placement Rate: On the toilet's supposed "Quick Facts" page, the school published the following: "For 2010 graduates whose status is known, 84.9% were employed or enrolled as a full-time student as of February 15, 2011." [Emphasis mine]

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings

Average Law Student Indebtedness: While this school is a third tier piece of trash, at least it is in the first tier – when it comes to average law student debt!! US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Stetson “University” JD Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $133,082. Based off this document, 88 percent of this school’s unfortunate 2011 class took on such toxic debt. Keep in mind that this figure does not take undergraduate debt into account.

Conclusion: Does it surprise anyone to see a true ABA-accredited sewage pit resorting to these measures? With fewer applicants, lower-ranked toilets will need to lower their already pathetic admissions “standards.” The stooges at Stetson are now waiving application fees. On the school’s tuition and fees page, the commode points out that the $55 fee is non-refundable.

The school is now implicitly encouraging potential law students to take the LSAT, at the last minute. If you have your little heart set on being a lawyer, then you owe it to yourself to investigate the job prospects, the overall U.S. legal market, and the total cost. In the end, attending a low-ranked law school/diploma mill is a terrible gamble – one that falls squarely on the shoulders of the student. The debt is NON-DISCHARGEABLE, and the schools and banksters do not take on any of the risks. It will be interesting to see if this dung heap accepts students with 144 LSAT scores, in order to fill its desired enrollment. Going to an expensive third tier toilet, in a shrinking field, is NOT going to improve your financial situation.

Lastly, the person who sent this info to me took the LSAT two years ago. That individual said it would be okay if I mentioned that info, on this entry. How do you spell desperation?!?! If the schools felt that soliciting senior centers and graveyards for applicants was profitable, then they would do so.

39 comments:

  1. I'd go if they waived tuition. Haha! Ok, not really ....

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  2. Not getting enough applicants I see. The problem for these bottom feeding shit stacks is they accept a lot of students. But most of those students go somewhere else if they get into a better school.

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  3. How can anyone rationalize taking on $130K in debt for a law degree from this place? I wouldn't take out that much debt to go to HLS.

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  4. Do you get a stetson hat with your JD diploma when you graduate from this commode? The hat will sure come in handy as your panhandling tray when you become homeless and live under a bridge.

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  5. I don't know if the graduates receive a Stetson hat, when they walk for their TTT law diplomas. That might be a nice touch, to the sad ceremony. Perhaps, the commode can put the graduates in ass-less chaps. It would symbolize that they are going to take it up the rectum. As a parting gift, the pigs could give their students a bottle of Stetson cologne.

    http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2010/590/624/2010-590624416-07415018-9.pdf

    Let's take a look at the 2010 IRS Form 990, for Stetson University Inc., a.k.a. Employer ID 59-06244161. On the bottom of page one, line 22, you will note that the university/corporation had $219,722,403 in end of year assets. You will note that total assets far outweigh total liabilities. That's not bad for a supposed "non-profit" institution!

    On page 39 of this document, we get to administrator and faculty salaries. University "president" Wendy Libby made $460,982 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the tax year ending on June 30, 2010.

    http://www.stetson.edu/administration/trustees/libby.php

    Butterball Darby Dickerson, then-vice president and dean of Stetson University Commode of Law, rolled around in $276,807 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the same tax year.

    http://www.law.stetson.edu/news/index.php/2011/05/26/dean-darby-dickerson-announces-plans-to-leave-stetson-to-lead-texas-tech-university-school-of-law/

    Bruce Jacob raked in $237,906 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, in his capacity as ancient dean emeritus and "professor of law." That must be nice.

    http://www.law.stetson.edu/faculty/jacob-bruce-r/

    Humpty Dumpty John Cooper, "Associate Dean of International and Cooperative Programs and Professor of Law," made $208,580 in TOTAL COMPENSATION.

    http://www.law.stetson.edu/faculty/cooper-john-f/

    Lastly, Robert Dale Bickel/Bilbo Baggins raked in $223,851, for the same year.

    http://www.law.stetson.edu/faculty/bickel-robert-d/

    Do you think any of these salaries will be reduced, if YOU cannot find a legal job upon graduating from this diploma mill/dung pit?!?! These academics are paid up front, in full. YOU, the student, will be left holding the bag on all that NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt.

    If you receive this flyer from the school, you would be better off using it to line your cat’s litter box. Perhaps, you need a coaster for your next drink. Hell, turning it into a paper airplane would serve you better.

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  6. Earn your law degree in a balanced environment? What exactly constitutes a balanced environment? Is it one where you carry such a massively huge balance that you commit suicide in the end due to the impossibility of paying it off?

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  7. No quarrel with your disgust at Stetson, but this is an overstatement: "When a school proudly proclaims that it prepares attorneys to go into “public service,” you KNOW that it is a trash heap."

    ...unless you think that this school, which brags about its public interest programs, and sending 1/4th of its class into public service work in the long-term, is a trash heap: http://www.law.yale.edu/academics/publicinterestlaw.htm

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  8. 20 years ago I applied to Stetson and probably would have gone had Id gotten in. I was denied admission and ended up at a lower ranked school.

    I know like in most things in life, competition increases over time, but if you dont think the legal field is no longer worth the gamble for those outside the upper crust of society(and it is not a gamble when you are rich and or connected)look at law schools like Stetson who are now desperate for students where as 20 years ago many smart kids could not even sniff admission to this place.

    The value of education has gone down and the price continues to go up. For most things in society this is the opposite of the way products or services survive. This may be just a marketing ploy by Stetson, but it shows they will do anything to keep the application pool overflowing because this is a money maker for those who run it. Only in law can you fail or not even try your profession yet still be qualified to teach those that want to work the same profession.

    Opportunity in society has become so low that these school will always have just enough desperate people to pay the big money for even just a tiny chance at a job that can bring real financial returns.

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  9. I think this website is a great deterrent for potential students that are interested in law for MONEY, which is what this blog seems most concerned with. I'll be attending a TTT heap of garbage in Oregon this fall, and I can't wait. Not because I'm expecting a huge salary on the other side, or a fancy car. I just enjoy learning. Besides given the bleak job market, why not? I don't mind moving in with the rents to avoid taking on debt.
    I'll say it again. I think this site's content is fine, and somewhat clean (for a blog). It wouldn't hurt to talk about the positive aspects of school at the same time. Financial solvency (or lack there of) is the responsibility of the individual in my book. While I agree some schools are predatory in nature, that's just the name of the game. This problem isn't just a concern of grad students. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

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  10. ^

    Boy, that is going to be a VERY steep learning curve for you. Come and talk to us 3.5 years later. We cannot wait to hear from a legal eagle like you. Try not to miss "Shitlaw 101 for Smarmy and Stupid Kids" - they give it every other year. And, of course - Legal Ethics - law skools are big on it.

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  11. "For 2010 graduates whose status is known, 84.9% were employed or enrolled as a full-time student as of February 15, 2011."

    This sentence constitutes the sum total of the placement data that Stetson is willing to share with prospective students and the public. How incredibly insulting.

    Moreover, the sentence conveys absolutely no information. What kind of jobs? What percentage of grads are "status known"? I believe that that exact sentence could be used by the worst ghetto high schools in the country.

    The truth is obvious, even if it cannot be proved--Stetson's career placement numbers are so bad that they dare not publish them for fear that prospective students would run in the other direction. If law students were as sophisticated as that New York judge thinks, the enrollment at Stetson Law would be zero.

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  12. Oh, I note that they have a telephone hotline to try to lure some marks into enrollment.

    877-LAW-STET

    For a bit of scamblog-activism, readers should consider calling the number, proclaiming their interest in applying to Stetson, and politely asking for some placement data on how many graduates actually get jobs in the legal profession.

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  13. 4:42
    You're right. I prob did come off as insincere, but only because I haven't gone through a program. I do honestly like to hear about people's experiences, positive or not. What did you want to do with a law degree? I'm not trying to be a dick or anything like that either. I'm just as concerned as the next person about placement.

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  14. I've never been to Stetson's law school. But I have been to their undergraduate campus in DeLand. It is indeed a lovely place. However, I simply could not imagine going to that university, much less to its law school (had I known it had one). Everyone looked like he or she just came off a shoot from Architectural Digest.

    By the way, the uni was founded by the same man who invented the Stetson hat. They really should have students wear them, and chaps, instead of a cap and gown at graduation.

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  15. ^

    The hat is still part of the parade uniform of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police - RCMP.

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  16. 653..if you are still enrolled as a full time student after spending 133k on this degree, you have to feel like a fool. For that money you should atleast be able to work and earn a living. How much more full time schooling do you need. Hilarious.

    Dont forget the "known" factor. When my friends and I graduated from our 4th tier school with debt and no job, do you think we filled out the forms saying what we were doing so the school would know. Looking back if we had, I bet the employment rate would be 25% instead of the 84% they advertise. They need to list the percentage of graudates who responded to give us the whole truth on who is working 133k later.

    I know it sucks being someone who makes average money, but for the non connected it does not make sense in todays world to take out this kind of debt. The practice of law is not as lucrative as it used to be for many reasons and the prices should make it obvious that you just need to do something else if you are footing the bill yourself and may not have the ability to pass a bar exam despite being pushed through school to graduate by those in charge who want your tuition money.

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  17. I don't know.

    Campos linked to this post, and I am glad he did.

    But a lot of his commenters seem so detatched and like they are viewing things through a telescope, or through layers of gauze on a wound.

    Or through many veils that have to be lifted away, one by one, until the real ugliness is right before them.

    Which they don't want to face.

    Armchair and smug academics and others

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  18. Lemming: Governor Stetson. I thought I smelled your foul stench when I signed on board.

    Grand Moff Stetson: Charming, to the last. You don't know how hard I found it spending your nondischargeable loan money and ruining your life.

    Lemming: I'm surprised you had the courage to take it yourself.

    Grand Moff Stetson: Graduate him. Immediately.

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  19. @ skiiOR,

    If you are not from a wealthy, connected family, then “higher education” should be seen primarily as an ECONOMIC DECISION. Women tend to prefer men who can at least provide a decent income. Try supporting a family, on a weak-ass salary. It can be done, but with great difficulty. Even if you don’t have high aspirations, you will at least want a roof over your head and food in the fridge.

    Maybe you are single, and have yet to learn these basic truths. Financial issues also produce the most heated arguments, in a marriage or serious relationship. Go out and attempt to purchase a home, while carrying $133K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. The mortgage companies and banks fully understand that such applicants WILL be required to pay back these significant debts. (Hell, one can walk away from a house.) The lender may not hold it against you, if you owe Target $900, from eight years ago - even though that almost certainly hurts your credit score. However, mortgage companies CERTAINLY will not see your $150K+ in student debt as an “asset.”

    To quote an UNSOPHISTICATED CONSUMER of “legal education”:

    “I think this website is a great deterrent for potential students that are interested in law for MONEY, which is what this blog seems most concerned with. I'll be attending a TTT heap of garbage in Oregon this fall, and I can't wait. Not because I'm expecting a huge salary on the other side, or a fancy car. I just enjoy learning.”

    You can learn plenty, at little to no cost. One can learn how to play an instrument, with a few lessons and tons of practice. You can pick up library books, on various subjects. You simply DO NOT NEED to piss away $133K - in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - on a useless TTT law degree.

    With your blasé attitude, financial illiteracy and naivety, YOU are in for a rude awakening. Plenty of law grads are now serving pizza, pouring lattes, delivering cupcakes, living in their mother’s garage, tending bar, selling insurance, working in hotel management, or returning to their prior line of work. MANY go through long stretches of unemployment. But YOU are smarter than all of those men and women, right?!?! These results cannot possibly happen to you, can they?! After all, YOU are too incredible and “hard working” to “allow” this to happen to you, correct?

    In sum, law school is a terrible risk - for non-wealthy, non-connected students. If you feel secure in your belief that law school is a wise decision for you, then reading the twelve page document below should not be a problem:

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/SSRN-id1497044.pdf

    Herwig Schlunk, law professor at Vanderbilt University, wrote an economic paper entitled “Mamas, Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be…Lawyers.” This draft was published on October 29, 2009. He concludes that law school is a poor investment, for most students.

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  20. Law school is a disease.

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  21. Law school is a serious gamble. And that's all you need to know.

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  22. I'm a 3L about to graduate. Strongly considering applying to these bottom-feeder schools to see if they would admit me even though I already will have a JD. My guess is that if they could find a way to use me to get student loan money, they would in a heartbeat.

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  23. ^They'd be happy to take your money.

    Here's what might change the student loan system. A huge exodus of student debt slaves leaving the country. If, say, 500,000 debt slaves moved overseas the banks and policymakers would notice. They'd either tighten up on the reigns (leading to a larger exodus) or they would possibly restore bankruptcy protection for student loans. Then the schools would realize they can't charge $40K in yearly tuition.

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  24. http://www.stetson.edu/portal/stetsontoday/2012/01/john-b-makes-grand-debut-as-new-stetson-mascot/

    The school's mascot is 'John B.' in honor of the school's first benefactor. He wears a Stetson and green bandana. What a fucking joke.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Stetson

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  25. Florida is one of those States that is completely fucked in terms of the legal job market. First, it has something like 10 law schools, including Cooley's satelite campus in Tampa (because there is such a GREAT demand for Cooley law grads nationwide--eyeroll).

    Going to law school in Florida is a death sentence. Sure, 3 years in sunny Florida may seem like a great idea but if you attend law school in Florida you are stuck there. Don't believe me? Look up on Martindale Hubell how many Miami or Florida State law grads work in NYC/DC Biglaw. In other words, if you go to law school in Florida, you have to make a legal career in Florida, not anywhere else. None of the law schools in Florida enjoy a national reputation. They have one or two regional schools at best.

    As for the legal market in Florida, one friend who has been practicing in Miami for 15 years recently described the legal job market as follows: "It's like pirahnas eating each other and there is no blood (i.e., business) in the water." Next time you are in Florida, check out the local yellow pages under attorney or lawyers. You will see it has more listings than restaurants, body shops, barbers combined. Hell, the last time I was in Miami there was over 100 pages alone under attorneys. I wouldn't like the odds for a Stetson grad under these conditions.

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  26. The legal job market in Florida is shit. Too many schools crapping out too many lawyers in an already glutted job market. So if you go to school down here, get ready to hang a shingle and represent pieces of shit riding around in low riders that haven't paid their child support in years. Have fun in the sun and then get fucked.

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  27. Dear Nando,

    I am a longtime reader of your blog and I have immense respect for what you are trying to do here, which is to put the spotlight on this corrupt and putrid "profession."

    Unlike JDPainter's story, you could say I am a success. I graduated from a T25, worked Biglaw, in-house counsel, and now am a Mid-law partner. I make just under $1M a year. So I should be happy right? Wrong. This profession has destroyed me. I am a shell of the person I was before going to law school. Law school tainted my soul's essence by making me more insufferable and yes, a certified first class asshole. Whereas before law school I was the life of the party, after law school, I was the buzzkill. I have been married 3 times and if there is a lemming out there that believes in fantasyland concepts such as "justice," I invite that lemming to read the transcripts of my divorces. Each was akin to a public execution.

    Every year, the bar makes it harder for the new lawyers and solos to make a living. They increase the bar fees, impose expense CLE requirements and you cannot take shortcuts like have a virtual office or do consults at your local Starbucks. In my jurisdiction, you will get sanctioned for these "offenses." And if you don't pay the fees, you get publicly shamed by virtue of your name appearing in the law journal under the "ineligible to practice" list.

    Fuck this profession. It is too late for me. Some of you can be saved and this is why I give Nando props: he is trying to save you. Nando has no financial incentive tied to this blog. The law school deans and professors rely on your blind naivete to pursue a fools' errand known as the Juris Doctor degree.

    I have become a functional alcoholic as a result of this profession. Honestly, booze has kept me from killing myself. People see the suits, fancy car, 4,000 sq. ft. home and assume I have it going on. Nothing could be further from the truth. Don't fall for the false lure of money and prestige. Money does NOT buy you happiness. And prestige? Please, when I see the guy scrape the roadkill off of the freeway, I have more respect for him than I do my colleagues.

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  28. Dear Nando,

    I am a longtime reader of your blog and I have immense respect for what you are trying to do here, which is to put the spotlight on this corrupt and putrid "profession."

    Unlike JDPainter's story, you could say I am a success. I graduated from a T25, worked Biglaw, in-house counsel, and now am a Mid-law partner. I make just under $1M a year. So I should be happy right? Wrong. This profession has destroyed me. I am a shell of the person I was before going to law school. Law school tainted my soul's essence by making me more insufferable and yes, a certified first class asshole. Whereas before law school I was the life of the party, after law school, I was the buzzkill. I have been married 3 times and if there is a lemming out there that believes in fantasyland concepts such as "justice," I invite that lemming to read the transcripts of my divorces. Each was akin to a public execution.

    Every year, the bar makes it harder for the new lawyers and solos to make a living. They increase the bar fees, impose expensive CLE requirements and you cannot take shortcuts like have a virtual office or do consults at your local Starbucks. In my jurisdiction, you will get sanctioned for these "offenses." And if you don't pay the fees, you get publicly shamed by virtue of your name appearing in the law journal under the "ineligible to practice" list.

    Fuck this profession. It is too late for me. Some of you can be saved and this is why I give Nando props: he is trying to save you. Nando has no financial incentive tied to this blog. The law school deans and professors rely on your blind naivete to pursue a fools' errand known as the Juris Doctor degree.

    I have become a functional alcoholic as a result of this profession. Honestly, booze has kept me from killing myself. People see the suits, fancy car, 4,000 sq. ft. home and assume I have it going on. Nothing could be further from the truth. Don't fall for the false lure of money and prestige. Money does NOT buy you happiness. And prestige? Please, when I see the guy scrape the roadkill off of the freeway, I have more respect for him than I do my colleagues.

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  29. Stetson is a true shitpile. Someone mentioned this being the third or fourth best law school in the state. It's still a shitter.

    If you go here, you better be willing to practice law here. That's the only shot you have of practicing law. And it'll be shitlaw. Think making $45K will make it easy to pay back $133K in loans?

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  30. 753..everything you said is true. I know from experience as well. However, if you make 1mil a year, it overcomes a lot. Money does not buy happiness but it allows you to do what you want a lot sooner. The experienced lawyers who make say 75-100k and are thrilled to get it, are the ones who should be drinking etc. They cant get off the treadmill and their colleagues are just as bad as yours. This is a shit profession, but at a million a year, even after a couple of divorces, you should be able to quit it alot sooner then those of us who dont make that much but still deal with all the shit you mentioned.

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  31. 'I invite that lemming to read the transcripts of my divorces. Each was akin to a public execution.'

    I couldn't stop myself from laughing at this. As a divorcee myself, I can relate a little to your situation. Your whole point was true, but this made me laugh.

    But a least you make good money. I made $56K last year and I am on the hook for child support for a 4 year old. On top of that, I got skewered for alimony too. The judge didn't even care to hear my side.

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  32. http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/04/stetson-law-school-wants-you.html

    On April 12, 2012, Paul Campos of the University of Colorado Law School, wrote an entry labeled "Stetson Law School Wants You." Here is his opening paragraph:

    "Are you currently considering enrolling in a certified program of legal education at an outstanding university located in an outstanding city in an outstanding state? If so and things don't work out you might consider the Stetson College of Law in Tampa Bay, FLA, which it would be fair to say is very interested in speaking with you at your earliest convenience. But even if it's not convenient for you to apply for admission this week or this month or this spring that's OK, because if you don't act now you can apply as late as July 1st for admission to the Fall 2012 class. Classes start just 47 days later, but I'm pretty sure that will give the Admissions Office more than enough time to determine if you are not currently an involuntary resident of a correctional facility meet the school's entrance requirements."

    If you still have difficulty understanding that the law schools merely see the students as a commodity, then you need to stick to coloring books and Sesame Street episodes. Hell, the school may set up a drive through window, to see if you qualify for admission, to its presTTTigious program.

    By the way, Temple University Beasley Sewer of Law extended its application deadline to April 1, 2012. Apparently, the swine at Stetson Law decided that they needed an extra three months, from this date!

    http://www.law.temple.edu/pages/prospective_students/Prospective_JD_Program.aspx

    “The application deadline for Fall 2012 has been extended to April 1, 2012.

    Temple Law School offers both full and part-time programs leading to the completion of the Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree. Admissions, curriculum, faculty, examinations and all other standards are the same for both the day and evening divisions. Applicants interested in the part-time programs should visit the Part-time Programs page for specific information on the part-time program options.

    Temple has a highly competitive admission process, which is designed to look at the whole person. The faculty Admissions Committee takes seriously its responsibility to carefully and individually evaluate each application and is committed to admitting the very best from our pool of talented applicants. Applicants admitted to Temple Law School know that they were chosen because their skills, abilities, achievements, and potential earned them the opportunity.

    In keeping with our commitment to diversity and our mission of offering opportunities to students who might otherwise be foreclosed from pursuing a high quality legal education, the faculty Admissions Committee may consider an applicant under our discretionary admissions process known as the Sp.A.C.E. program. Through this process, the faculty carefully selects applicants who have outstanding performance records and exceptional aptitudes for the study of law that are not necessarily reflected by grades and LSAT scores alone.”

    If you attend this dung pit, then you may be foreclosed/precluded from ever purchasing a home!

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  33. http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/law_librarian_blog/law_school_news_views/

    Check out the May 11, 2012 entry, from Joe Hodnicki. The piece was entitled "Application Deadline Extended to July 1. Accepting June LSAT Scores. Application Fee Waived. Sounds like Stetson Law is desperately seeking applicants (Average debt for Class of 2011 grads ... $133,082)." Here is the entire text:

    "Are you currently considering enrolling in a certified program of legal education at an outstanding university located in an outstanding city in an outstanding state? If so and things don't work out you might consider the Stetson College of Law in Tampa Bay, FLA, which it would be fair to say is very interested in speaking with you at your earliest convenience. But even if it's not convenient for you to apply for admission this week or this month or this spring that's OK, because if you don't act now you can apply as late as July 1st for admission to the Fall 2012 class. Classes start just 47 days later, but I'm pretty sure that will give the Admissions Office more than enough time to determine if you are not currently an involuntary resident of a correctional facility meet the school's entrance requirements," writes Paul Campos in Stetson Law School Wants You. (H/T-ing this Third Tier Reality blog post).

    Campos adds:

    It's worth emphasizing that Stetson is not a "bad" law school, in the sense of being significantly below average. First, it's more or less in the middle of the USNWR rankings (41st percentile). More significantly, as a commenter notes, in the context of Florida law schools in particular it's actually one of the better law schools in the state, ranking behind UF, Miami, and FSU, but ahead of a half dozen other ABA schools. In terms of expected return on investment it's also "average" -- which is to say the modal student there can anticipate a fairly catastrophic outcome. It is, in other words, a typical American law school in 2012."

    Even law librarians are starting to point out that law school pigs are becoming desperate for more students. Unfortunately, many waterhead applicants will "take advantage" of this "opportunity." Even after pissing away three years - and incurring mortgage-sized, NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - some of these morons will still say that they made the right choice.

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  34. As a current Stetson student, I actually expect my graduating debt to be closer to $210,000 than the 133k listed earlier.

    Fortunately, I'm one of those lucky people who has a six figure position waiting when I graduate, doing something a trained monkey could do. I only needed a JD to comply with a statutory requirement, and I felt three years living in sunny Florida was worth the price difference with my in state schools. I would never recommend this place to anyone who has to worry about the financial consequences of attendance.

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  35. I dated a girl who graduated from here. She was dumber than a bag of rocks and did doc review for 3 years before getting fired for having a bad attitude.

    Last I heard, she is a paralegal for a military contractor.

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  36. A lot of Stetson law grads flood the shitlaw firms in Tampa that pay a starting salary of 65K or less and demand 2,100 billable hours or more. Many others end up at the local DA and PD offices because they are too retarded to get into one of Tampa's many shitlaw firms. And many others end up doing who the hell knows what.

    Living in Tampa, though, it's easy to forget that Stetson law school is a scam factory that churns out endless parades of morons. Stetson law graduates are everywhere in Tampa because they can't go anywhere else, but they have somehow managed to convince almost the whole city that they are excellent lawyers.

    The Tampa legal market is full of shit and delusions.





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  37. My take on the sour grapes here is that it is coming from kids who go into law school with no real idea of where they want to practice, with the misguided belief that their law degree will be a magic key to affluence.

    So they graduate, still not really clear on where they are going to carve their niche, and find themselves at the bottom level of a non-prestigious firm, making hardly more than $35k a year and being asked to work 60 hour weeks to get ahead. It's a rude awakening.

    I worked for 12 years in insurance claims, working my way up to a management position where I got to see about 50 cases go to jury trial. It never failed to amaze me how unimpressive the trial attorneys were. Trying a PI case is not rocket science.

    I worked with a lot of weak, unimpressive defense attorneys and a few outstanding ones. I got to see thousands of unimpressive plaintiff attorneys do their thing, and a handful of truly excellent ones. Again, it's not rocket science.

    One commenter above cited the hundreds of attorney ads in Florida as evidence of how flooded the market is. Actually, it's just the opposite. PI law in Florida is alive and kicking, due to the money pot of PIP which funds the litigation buildup, and the PFS which subjects trial losers to attorney fee exposure, and turns the winners into jackpot windfalls for the plaintiff attorneys who collect extra contractual from the insurance carriers due to the favorable bad faith laws which make opening limits a breezed. Add to the equation a plethora of litigation doctors whose sole practice is building personal injury cases to large settlements,

    Defense attorneys are steadily employed in FL and can earn a decent living, while the plaintiff attorneys who know how to market and know how to strike fear into adjusters make great money, with very little risk.

    The common denominator is that many of these local FL PI attorneys are Stetson grads. They are doing just fine.

    So my advice to the sour grapes types would be to focus all of that energy spent whining about the situation toward finding your niche. The go be excellent at it. You will make several hundred thousand a year and your loans will get paid off. It's not rocket science.

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  38. I went to Stetson. It was a waste of money. Four years later and I still do not have a job as a lawyer.

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    Replies
    1. I, too, went to Stetson Law and haven't been able to land a job as a lawyer since leaving Florida in 2013. Complete and utterly disgusting waste of time and money. I owe almost $340K now that I haven't been employed since my 2013 admission, yet my loan interest compounds daily during a non-stop unemployment deferment.

      And, I did it all to myself.

      Hard to sleep at night knowing you're the one who screwed yourself out of 3 years and a small fortune, with a toxic degree from a TTT no one's heard of outside Fla. Now I have to go further into the debt hole to get another degree in something that will get me a job to pay off my wasted JD debt.

      Oh--and their Career Services dept has been horrendous. No contacts outside of Fla and no reciprocity with other schools anywhere. What kind of CS is that?

      Delete

 
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