Monday, June 4, 2012

Fourth Tier Petrified Rat Droppings: Atlanta's John Marshall Law School

Tuition: For the 2011-2012 school year, full-time law students at this dung heap were charged $34,005 in tuition and fees. Part-time students at John Mar$hall Law Sewer only faced $20,469 in tuition and fees, for 2011-2012.

Total Cost of Attendance: This same document lists living expenses. Under the worst-case scenario, i.e. attending this trash pit on a full-time basis, the commode lists the total COA - for 2011-2012 - as $57,410. Keep in mind that these pigs are providing nine-month living costs.

Since actual law students will require twelve-month costs, I will calculate such expenses for room and board; transportation; and miscellaneous. Instead of $10,920, shelter and food will run $14,560. Also, transportation/commuter costs will total $5,600 – and not $4,200. Plus, personal costs will reach $4,533, not the figure that the school published – which was $3,400. Using these figures, we can determine a more accurate total COA of $63,583, for the 2011-2012 academic year. Good luck on your risky “investment”/gamble. You would be better served by putting that sum on black, at the roulette tables in Atlantic City.

Ranking: At such prohibitive prices, surely this school must have one hell of a reputation, huh?!?! Well, according to Cockroach Bob Morse and US “News” & World Report, Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School is firmly established as a fourth tier pile of rancid waste. Of course, Morse trimmed his bush last year and now lists the fourth tier schools as “Rank Not Published.”

Alleged Employment Figures: According to the cesspool, 91.6 percent of the school’s Class of 2010 was employed within nine months of graduation. Apparently, the school was happy to include JD short order cooks, bartenders, and insurance adjusters in this statistic.

The Career Development Office at this garbage heap offers the following “services”: Dress for Success Seminar, Resume Workshops, and Dining Etiquette Seminar. If you are reading this at work, then try not to laugh too hard. If you graduate from this excrement pile, you will likely be subsisting on Ramen noodles, cold cereal, candy bars, and an occasional Whopper or Big Mac. Does this diet require etiquette, other than not puking in public?

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the John Marshall Law Sewer Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $138,819. Furthermore, 91 percent of this school’s 2011 class took on such toxic debt. Remember that this big-ass figure does not take undergraduate debt into account.

“Professor” Salary Info: The school is a private dung pit, but it is no longer listed as a tax-exempt organization with the IRS. We need to head to a different source, for salary data. As you can see, Education News does not provide individual staff salaries. Also, the date of publication is not given on this document. However, the site does list the average salary of “professors” as $109,363.

“Legitimacy Information

• This organization is not registered with the IRS.
• This organization is required to file an IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ.

This organization does not appear in the IRS's most recent list of tax-exempt organizations. IRS records do not, however, indicate that the organization’s tax-exempt status has been revoked. Contact the organization for more information.”

The Commode’s RepuTTTTaTTTTion:

Read this brief summary of the commode, provided by USN&WR:

“Law School Overview

The law school at Atlanta's John Marshall Law School has an application deadline of August 12. The full-time program application fee at the law school at Atlanta's John Marshall Law School is $50. The part-time program application fee at the law school at Atlanta's John Marshall Law School is $50. Its tuition is full-time: $1,128 per credit and part-time: $1,128 per credit. The student-faculty ratio is 13.9:1. The law school at Atlanta's John Marshall Law School has 53 full- and part-time faculty on staff. Of the 2010 graduates, 34.3 percent were employed at graduation. [Emphasis mine]

What a prestigious in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion. The profile also shows that the toilet had a full-time enrollment of 528 students, while 204 poor fools were attending this dung pile on a part-time basis. Notice that the application deadline is right before the first classes commence.

Conclusion: If you believe that attending this school is going to enhance your job prospects, then you are sorely mistaken. Many lemmings foolishly believe that taking on a mountain of student debt for a chance to earn $40K as a lawyer is a wise decision. To the waterheads: if you incur an additional $135K-$170K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, then you will need to make a financial killing after you graduate from this stink pit. The fact remains that very few TTTT grads will work in Biglaw. Furthermore, with tort reform in place, large jury awards will be reduced. Lastly, billing your toilet as Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School further establishes that you are operating a crass commercial enterprise. It is akin to claiming to serve “Philadelphia’s best cheese steak” or providing “Kansas City’s best barbecue.” The fact that you expect your customers to pay $138,819 for your garbage product shows that the school is run by disgusting, vile pigs who do not give one damn about the students and recent graduates.


  1. Nando, you neglect the fact that this school has a cutting edge legal writing program. I mean, you have to possess legal cojones to use a smiley face in your pleadings :)

    By the way, did that crazy John Marshall Law School-Atlanta Branch grad eventually pass the bar?

    It is absolutely CRAZY to pay over six figures for a worthless degree from this joke school. The Chicago John Marshall law school actually looks down on this trash heap and the Chicago campus is looked down upon by many lawyers.

    Speaking of John Marshall, why hasn't his estate filed for injunctive relief banning these schools from sullying his name?

  2. I hope that whoever named this school after John Marshall--and whoever named law schools after Thurgood Marshall, Thomas Jefferson, et al, had a really keen sense of irony. If they didn't, they were even more mendacious than the ones who run the school--or are they even more ignorant than those who enroll in them?

  3. According to this advertisement, you must have a John Marshall LLM to have a competitive edge in getting hired in a legal capacity:

    Step right up folks, you are already $150K in the hole, what's another $60K thrown down the Primrose path? This scam is so fucking flagrant and unbelievable in so many facets.

  4. Why is that turd shaped like California if the school's in Georgia?

  5. Nando, over the weekend I saw a transcript of Lawrence Lessig's commencement address to the John Marshall Class of 2012. Check it out!

  6. Waaaaaaaahh! I went to law school. Now my life is ruined! Waah!

  7. LOL! It does look like California!

  8. @1207:

    That's John Marshall-Chicago. Same name, different scammers. Which is worse depends on whether you dislike Atlanta or Chicago more, as both are indisputably the worst scam offenders in their respective states.

  9. @12:57 pm,

    I noticed that link, when I was researching this toilet last night. I did not read the story until after you mentioned it in your comment above. Thank you for the info. Since the pig known as Lawrence Lessig is not a faculty member of this dung pit, his idiotic remarks deserve to be the focus of a separate TTR entry.

    On April 8, 2006, at 12:04:55 pm, some moron started an LSD thread labeled "John Marshall-ATLANTA." On May 1, 2006, at 12:28:11 pm, a poster with a decent IQ and a conscience furnished this response - under the internet handle "yiplong":

    "This is a very serious problem for anyone attending this school. If 1L attrition rate is 50% (which is accurate according to LSAC), then more than half of the entering class will not graduate. A few might have transfered, but the odds are extremely small. Most will fell victim to their brutal curve. (they don't grade on a curve and the top students don't even make 3.0??) Don't gamble your money and future on a crap school like this. I wasn't trashing the school when I call it crap, it IS one of the worst crap out there.

    Don't try to bull yourself, face the fact, this school sucks, you will waste tons of money on an useless JD degree that will get you no job and no potential."


    On May 7, 2012 Vivia Chen posted an article on The Careerist entitled “Your Debt for Law School Will Exceed $200,000; Plus,15 Law Schools to Cross Off Your List.”

    “Thankfully, Constitutional Daily is lending us a hand, crunching the numbers based on Law School Transparency employment data to come up with the 15 law schools that are bad investments—where there are more "underemployed" grads than "employed" ones. (Underemployment includes those who are "unemployed, in part-time jobs, nonprofessional jobs, or are pursuing another degree," says CD.)”

    Chen cites to a list labeled “The Fracked Fifteen” – as provided by NYU Law grad Derek Tokaz. You will notice that John Mar$hall Law $chool made his list. In fact, this Atlanta dung pit joins Ave Maria Sewer of Law, TTTThoma$ M. Cooley Law Sewer, and TTTThoma$ Jeffer$on SOL. What an accomplishment, huh?!?!

    Chen confuses the Chicago TTTT with the Atlanta garbage pile of the same name. Tokaz included the Atlanta commode in his list, while Chen placed the Chicago sewer on her entry “Nine Law Schools to Avoid” – which she published on March 28, 2012.

    In the end, both of these schools are disgusting, putrid cesspools. These schools feed off of the legions of desperate college grads who believe that a law degree will make them “more marketable.”

  10. Atlanta's John Marshall Law School is a for profit company. The recent history of the school can be reconstructed from this statement on the school's website:

    ...In 1987, the Supreme Court changed its 1978 promulgation to require that all law schools in the state be approved by the ABA. To meet the goal of achieving ABA approval, the John Marshall Law School Board of Trustees endorsed a plan designed to bring the school into compliance with ABA Standards.
    To assist in achieving ABA approval, the school signed a management agreement with the Argosy Education Group (AEG), the nation's largest provider of doctoral level programs in the field of psychology, as well as a significant presence in the fields of education and business. In 2001, after a change in ownership of AEG, the law school once again found itself a freestanding, independent law school...

    And from this article in the Atlanta Business Chronicle:

    Date: Thursday, March 1, 2001, 11:17am EST
    Chicago-based Argosy Education Group Inc. (Nasdaq: ARGY) has exercised its option to buy John Marshall Law School.
    Terms of the sale were not disclosed...

    What it looks like happened here is that when the "non-profit" John Marshall Law school threatened to go belly-up because it could not get accredited by the ABA, the directors of the non-profit sold out to Argosy in order to get the money needed to get up ABA accreditation standards. Then when the Education Management Corporation bought out Argosy in 2001, the Education Management Corporation decided for some reason to spin-off John Marshall Law School as an independent corporation. (my uninformed guess is the law school had excessive debt that made it risky to keep under the Education Management Corporation corporate umbrella).

  11. This law school truly sucks. John Marshall Law School proves that a complete lack of success in undergraduate school or on the LSAT will not prevent people from attending law school.

    Can we get some minimal standards in this profession? There should be a requirement of at least having a 3.0 GPA and scoring a 155 on the LSAT. You don't see doctors going to medical school with a 2.4 GPA.

    This school blows.

  12. Every time I read these posts I get physically nauseous. Not because of the pictures of shit but because I actually went to law school and I regret every single fucking second of my life since I bought that first LSAT prep book.

  13. I was gonna mention the dining etiquette program offered by the shitter's CDO. (What a fucking joke. Meanwhile, about 34 percent of the class had a job at graduation.)

    And then 6:35 did some solid investigative work on this shithole. That would explain a lot. Like why the school's info doesn't appear on guidestar any longer.

  14. Nando,

    I know you roasted JMLS-Chicago a long while back but I think your next post needs to be a roast of their dean who had another foot in mouth comment in an interview he gave with Crain's Chicago Business.

    The story was about Northwestern and Loyola toying with the idea of decreasing class sizes due to the crappy job figures. However, leave it to JMLS's dean John Corkery to provide a counter point toward any attempts to reform legal education on both a substantive or financial level.

  15. The John Marshall Law school has a famous name, an aggressive curriculum and stays on the forefront of legal issues. This combination benefits the future lawyers who grace these hallowed halls. With over 85% of the graduates passing the bar and having a job within nine months, this school does it right.

  16. The chairman of the board of directors, and almost certainly a major shareholder, of Atlanta's John Marshall Law School is one Dr. Michael C. Markovitz, Ph.D. see:

    Oddly, Dr. Markovitz doesn't have a law degree. So, a non-lawyer cannot own a law firm, but a non-lawyer can own a law school? How the hell does that work?

    And since the school appears to offer at least a few clinics with actual clients, why are the law professors who run these clinics not in violation of Georgia Rule of Professional Conduct 5.4(d)(2):

    "(d) A lawyer shall not practice with or in the form of a professional corporation or association authorized to practice law for a profit, if:...

    (2) a nonlawyer is a corporate director or officer thereof;..."

  17. "The Dodd-Frank Act requires a formal report on the private student loan market. But the student loan problem cannot be understood without equally examining government student loans: The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau needs absolutely to include government student loans in its report, which otherwise would be obviously partial and incomplete.

    “If these borrowers are so overleveraged that it carries throughout their entire adult life, this is a big problem,” a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau officer has pronounced. His bureau needs immediately to get busy making sure that the Department of Education is not saddling students with unpayable debt for life."

  18. For profit indy law schools are shady. It's worse than the beauty (or cosmotology) school scam. At least you're not getting screwed to the tune of six figures and 3 years.

  19. RE: Emigrating to escape a lifetime of debt:

  20. Check out Ryan Robinson’s valedictorian speech to the JML$ - Atlanta Class of 2012:

    If you are bored, and you want to listen to a tool kiss this commode, then head to the clip above. To be honest, you may more pressing matters – such as finishing a crossword puzzle, watering the lawn, or reading the comics section of the newspaper. At the 4:06 mark of this video, Ryan gushes:

    “I especially wanted to thank my beautiful wife Beth. Four years ago, we had a newborn baby at home. And we were both scared to death of how to raise a child. But yet you still encouraged me to follow my dream and to go to school. You were practically a single mother, working 14 hour days, with no weekends off. All because I, you, wanted to make sure I had time to focus on school. Two years into school, we welcomed another baby into the world. Which meant twice the work for you. But you soldiered on, and you continued to provide unwavering support. You have been my rock through this journey. Always encouraging me to keep an eye on the finish line. Always available for a late night discussion. Readily offering your key insight, which provided for critical counter-analysis in getting ready for exams or writing a brief. Any achievement I have accomplished is all because of you Beth. Without you, I am nothing.

    We, Class of 2012, will forever be ambassadors of John Marshall’s Law School, I’m sorry, ambassadors of Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School. The impressions we make on others will leave an indelible mark upon them, in regard to our alma mater. Let us seek to make these impressions reflective of the hard work, discipline and commitment we have all shown for the last several years. Thank you.”

    Apparently, Robinson forgot to mention that this commode will leave an indelible mark on the students’ and graduates’ resumes and futures. During the video, the speaker notes that he is 35 at the time of receiving his law degree. Law firms do not want to hire “non-traditional” students. The pigs prefer to mold young, impressionable minds.

    Here is the douche-bag’s LinkedIn profile. It lists his current job as “Bankruptcy Department Supervisor at CarMax Auto Finance.” Yes, that law degree is paying off brilliantly so far, huh?!?! According to this page, Robinson also earned a degree from something called Kennesaw State University Michael J. Coles College of Business.

    As you will note, Michael Coles is the founder of the Great American Cookie Company. This businessman ran for U.S. senate, after first losing his challenge for Newton Leroy Gingrich’s seat in 1996. Stick to making cookies, bitch.

  21. I actually wasted 4 minutes and watched Ryan Robinson's commencement speech. This guy is a walking disaster and represents the epitome of irresponsibility. First, he has two kids while he attends law school. Secondly, he goes all in and attends JML-Atlanta, which is a worse gamble than going to the Sands and betting $150K on black. As Nando points out, Mr. Robinson's only shot at Biglaw is working as a janitor since 35 year old associates from JOHN MARSHALL LAW SCHOOL is unheard of. He will continue with his current job but will find it more of a struggle to feed his kids. If I was this kid's father-in-law, I would have kicked him in the nuts and sterilized the fucker. I feel terrible for Bethy. Ryan maybe nothing without Bethy, but he sure is nothing (in the legal world) with a JD from JML-Hotlanta.

  22. Record law school once and stream it on Net Flix for $8.99. Signing up for a Net Flix account is about as difficult as getting into John Marshall Law School.

  23. ^If you put it on Netflix where will all the brilliant professors go?

  24. So, the valedictorian of this school scores a job in the bankruptcy department at CarMax. I have never practiced bankruptcy law. But I am sure that the legal intricacies of protecting secured credit interests in bankruptcy court must be absolutely fascinating. With IBR, this valedictorian should be able to pay off his student loans in 30 years when he turns 65.

    Unfortunately, as noted in the original post with only 34.3% of the class employed at graduation, not everyone in the class is going to be able to achieve the same level of "success" that the class valedictorian has.

    As noted in the "Dean's Message" on the John Marshall Law School website:

    ...Many of our students do not start work in law firms or hang out their shingle, although they will move into more traditional practice over time. Evening students may keep the job they had in law school for awhile or move into a different position with the same employer after becoming a lawyer...


    "Most of the publicity about lawyer unemployment featured the hiring cutbacks at major law firms. While more of them are beginning to consider recent AJMLS graduates, it will be a long time before they represent a major source of jobs for us. The small and medium sized firms which represent people, rather than Fortune 500 companies, continue to thrive, government jobs still exist, and a number of AJMLS lawyers do go solo or practice in small groups with classmates. America continues to grow and will need more lawyers, not fewer.
    Second, while the average AJMLS student leaves law school with a large debt load that makes the first few years a struggle, a law degree remains a good investment."

    Given this pathetic attempt by John Marshall to spin atrocious job prospects, one would hope that they would be focusing all of their efforts on helping more of their graduates achieve the same "success" that their valedictorian has.

    Instead, we can read about what they are focusing on in the "PreLaw" magazine. (I had a better life before yesterday when I discovered that "PreLaw" magazine existed. It is a kind of like a fan-fiction version of the U.S. News and World Report law school issue.) The plan of Michael C. Markovitz, chairman of the board of directors for John Marshall law school is to open a new branch campus in Savannah, Georgia. See:

    So, instead of trying to do something to help current students and alumni get jobs, Michael Markovitz is going to start dumping even more lawyers into debt servitude in the glutted Georgia attorney job market. It is an evil plan. By an evil man.

    I, therefore have a proposed name for this new law school in Savannah, Georgia. In honor of the Justice who authored the Dred Scott case, I propose naming this new law school the "Roger B. Taney Center for Legal Education."

    To anyone considering attending any fourth tier law school such as John Marshall in order to pursue a noble legal career, I can only remind you that Alley McBeal and Atticus Finch are fictional characters. Justice Roger B. Taney and Chairman of Marshall Law School Michael Markovitz are not.

  25. The Carnegie Classification

    Atlanta's John Marshall Law School
    Control = Private For Profit
    Student Population = 558
    Enrollment Profile = ExGP: Exclusively Graduate Professional
    Basic = Spec/Law Special Focus Institutions-Schools of Law

    Not much more to be said here.

    The Competition

    If you're thinking about setting up shop in Atlanta then you're thinking about competing with lawyers who have taken to setting up billboards all throughout the city and even advertizing for clients on the MARTA. Can you afford a billboard? or an add in a train?

  26. You should've saved that picture for a California toilet.

  27. I think I might have tried to apply here when I was looking to go to law school. Honestly, I applied at so many schools that I can't keep them all straight.

    It always baffles me that there are SO many law schools. There are not nearly as many dental schools, nor are there so many veterinary schools, yet more people have pets and go to the dentist than need lawyers. The only type of school that seems to outnumber law schools is massage schools, and I am starting to wonder if massage school would have been a better choice. After all, people feel good about getting massages, not about having to get a lawyer.

  28. How many people get a happy ending after getting a lawyer?

    Most clients feel like they got fucked by a horse, even when they get a good result.


    On September 27, 2010 at 1:58 pm, City-Data user "pinkjacket" posted an entry labeled "John Marshall Law School???" Check out this 9-28-10 response from member "Mrs. MJ":

    "John Marshall Law School Atlanta's campus is for the students who couldn't get into good schools don't go there."

    In other words, this ABA-accredited toilet enrolls the desperate fools who could not gain admission to a REAL law school.

    Another poster, using handle "yankeegirl73" furnished this reply – also from September 28, 2010:

    "Honestly, the legal profession lives and dies by the rankings in U.S. News and World Report. A degree from a third tier and below school is much less likely to result in a "big bucks" career. (Please note I did not say impossible. I am talking about the employment picture for the graduating classes as a whole, not every individual who ever went there.) There is a serious over supply of lawyers right now, and students from higher ranked schools will generally get jobs first (especially the highly compensated jobs). However, if your goal is to work for yourself, then ranking matters less. John Marshall only recently got accreditation and will need time to establish its reputation.

    I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the school's rank to the type of legal career you will have."

    Most people with an IQ exceeding room temperature recognize that the US “News” & World Report rankings are foolish. However, legal employers care about where their job applicants attended law school. When the field is GLUTTED, employers can be picky. As you can see, this pile of rot only recently received accreditation from the pieces of trash at the American Bar Association. Also, take the average law student indebtedness figure, for the Class of 2011, into account. What a recipe for success, huh?!?!

    The dung pit acknowledges that it has only been fully accredited since 2009.

    “Atlanta's John Marshall Law School has been fully approved by the Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar of the American Bar Association since 2009. The Section of Legal Education may be contacted at 321 North Clark Street, Chicago, IL 60610 or by phone at 312/988-6738.”

    Who the hell wouldn’t want to incur an additional $140K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt from such a prestigious, marvelous and amazing in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion, right?!?! The fact that the ABA allows such pathetic schools to operate shows beyond all doubt that this morally bankrupt organization does not give a damn about students, recent graduates or the general public.

  30. Law school was always a sham in terms of the education and practical training it provided, in terms of the level of faculty compensation, and in terms of the amount of tuition milked from naive kids.

    I am old enough to remember when that didn't matter so much. The jobs were usually there for graduates--and if they weren't, you could always hook up with some well-paying doc review project. And it was even better for the generation before me. I know plenty of wealthy and successful lawyers who went to shithole law schools--but they are all around 60 or 70 years old.

    The world has changed, permanently. We have offshoring, public sector austerity, economic stagnation, and information technology so advanced as to eliminate the need for a lot of lawyers. Also, corporate CEOs, though they are typically stupid beasts, seem to have finally realized that it is more cost-effective to move their legal work in-house rather than retain white shoe firms on the billable hours model.

    I saw a recent picture of an obese, wrinkled, elderly French lady whose name is Bridget Bardot. Law school is like Bridget Bardot pretending to look like what she looked like at age 25.

  31. John Marshall Law School is opening a branch campus in Savannah, Georgia...

  32. Quite by accident I saw an article from cnbc about what college tuition will look like in 18 years.

    You can see the article here -->

    The gist of it however was that we could potentially be looking at undergraduate tuitions of $130,000 per year assuming the worst (7% tuition growth per year at a private university).
    The law school scam is not just for lawyers anymore.

    Actually, there are two way to read such an article. We can assume that the mathematics are essentially correct and undergraduates will in 18 years time actually be subjected to such crushing prices for their college educations. Portending the end of an American middle class with positions earned by the dent of their credentials and skills as opposed to their connections and/or their servitude to feudal interests, as was the case in the middle ages.

    Or it can be read assuming that the mathematics cannot possibly be correct and that what we are actually seeing is not evidence that tuition will reach $130,000 a semester, but rather evidence that the system is about to collapse, taking educational institutions of all kinds with it, along with banks, and perhaps even causing a deep depression.

  33. Those numbers are chilling. The country's fucked. Abandon ship if you're smart and have the means.

  34. Those numbers are based on the stupid "growth growth growth" mantra, a linear based model when economics is really a circular thing. We are in a period of contraction and colleges and law schools need to realize that, and try to adjust, before they simply implode.

    Nando keep up the pressure, and I would recommend people link Nando's posts across the internet wherever there might be 0L's aka potential sacrificial lambs.

  35. Head to this page and read about this school's illustrious history:

    "In 1978, the Supreme Court of Georgia promulgated standards and procedures for the approval of law schools and set forth an application process similar to the accreditation process of the American Bar Association (ABA). After gaining its initial approval, John Marshall Law School had its approval renewed after each subsequent inspection between 1978 and 1987.

    In 1987, the Supreme Court changed its 1978 promulgation to require that all law schools in the state be approved by the ABA. To meet the goal of achieving ABA approval, the John Marshall Law School Board of Trustees endorsed a plan designed to bring the school into compliance with ABA Standards.

    To assist in achieving ABA approval, the school signed a management agreement with the Argosy Education Group (AEG), the nation's largest provider of doctoral level programs in the field of psychology, as well as a significant presence in the fields of education and business. In 2001, after a change in ownership of AEG, the law school once again found itself a freestanding, independent law school under the direction of Dr. Michael C. Markovitz, Chair of the Board of Directors.

    Under the leadership of Dr. Markovitz, the Board of Directors determined that the school would once again seek approval by the ABA and all steps reasonably necessary to accomplish that goal would be undertaken. A major renovation project at the school was recently completed providing new classrooms, a new trial courtroom and a new appellate courtroom, each equipped with audio - video capabilities, to provide facilities for the training of advocates. The library was also expanded to accommodate a growing collection.

    Today, Atlanta's John Marshall Law School remains the sole surviving heir to Georgia's long tradition of law schools offering a part-time evening program designed to provide access to legal education to non-traditional students. As we move further into the 21st century, the law school has placed itself in a position to grow and develop into a major institution of legal education in the Southeast."

    Could you imagine the AMA and ADA allowing blatant diploma mills to train physicians and dentists?!?! Of course, the dung beetles at the ABA have MUCH LOWER standards. What an honorable "profession," huh?!

    Under the heading “Profile of 2011 Entering Class,” you will note that the commode accepted 909 out of the 1,867 desperate lemmings who applied to this dump. The school admitted NEARLY HALF of all its applicants! In fact, the sewage pit accepted 48.69% of all applicants for Fall 2011. Hell, call centers have a higher denial rate for those seeking employment. Of course, the ABA feels that such schools are providing a "public service."

    1. You fail to consider that even applying to law school means you have a college degree. They aren't accepting 48% of the public at large. They are accepting 48% of the applicants, all of which took the LSAT and graduated from college. And they know ahead of time that most will not accept/enroll.

  36. An unrelated sign that the law school scam as we know it is on its last legs: I was looking at Florida CoasTTTTal's website. It says that they are accepting June LSATs for the Fall 2012 class. The June LSAT is being administered on June 11. The LSAC website says that results are available 3 weeks after the test, which means July 1st, more or less. Fall semester begins at Florida CoasTTTTal on August 20th. Orientation for 1Ls begins August 13th.

    If CoasTTTTal is having to push its admissions drive this late into the cycle, it means they are having serious problems getting enough victims into their incoming class. Its another good sign that prospective students are getting smarter and are realizing that there is no reason to waste three years and 150k in debt for a TTTT degree that won't qualify you to be anything much more than an extra unhappy stocker of shelves at the local Target.

  37. Shit, one law school's accepting apps until August 1. This is more good news.

  38. Florida Coastal used to spam my inbox into oblivion. Even before I knew of the law school tiers and scamblogs, I knew that school's desperation reeked, and I knew that I would not apply there. Hell, they offered me a scholarship and I had not even applied!

  39. You should cover this area more often. As soon as I took my LSAT, several schools sent me admissions offers in the mail. No joke. Two schools gave me scholarship money and I hadn't even applied to those shitholes.

  40. I go to AJMLS. It is a shit hole. NOBODY in Metro Atlanta takes us seriously, and the majority do not expect us to even practice law. Professors are corporate goons collecting a fat paycheck and vacationing from lucrative careers.

    No alumni support, terrible moot court and law review program (you can't even find john marshall's law journal cited or published ANYWHERE), student body is devastatingly dumb, making most class discussions either silent or worthless, and of course as noted above with our valedictorian of 2012, even public speaking is a challenge here.

    PROFIT is their only motive - See Savannah Law School

    The most notable alumni are a retired state appeal court judge who went to law schol at night 100 years ago, and a lawyer who beat back tort reform because his daddy got the case and let him take the glory, in an effort to keep daddy's legacy going when he dies/retires.

    When tort reform comes back, JMLS alumni are largely out of business. Criminals will be the only clients of the spawn of criminals, and guess what criminals pay? Not enough to cover the interest payment on the loans.

    I hope I am not too old for the military.

  41. I heard my class Valedictorian is still unemployed. It really comes down to who you know. Our bar passage rate is shit because the school professors don't really care if you pass the bar or not as long as they get their paychecks. Last July 2011 Bar Passage rage was 65%. Most likely either the students are not smart or the professors don't prepare the students to pass the bar. It could be both... either way, not worth the investment unless you know someone and there is a guarantee employment after school.

  42. Thanks for writing about this law school. As an Atlanta resident who took the LSAT recently, I got swamped by e-mails from John Marshall (also from the aforementioned Florida Coastal and the infamous Thomas M. Cooley Law School.) I even attended an open to the public lecture there because it was free, they promised coffee and food, and I had nothing else to do that Saturday. The people at the front desk asked me whether I'd applied for the fall yet. Should have realized that it would be a recruitment drive.

    The campus itself is just a couple of buildings in midtown Atlanta. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but the cost of living down there is pretty high. Unless JM students get some kind of dealing on housing, they'd have to live outside the perimeter and take MARTA or drive in every day to keep costs down. There's also the bitter irony that JM is located just across the street from many of Atlanta's top firms - the very same firms that would throw their grads' resumes in the bin the moment they got them.

    If you live in Georgia, literally any other school in the state is a better option. UGA and Georgia State are real law schools with strong alumni networks in metro Atlanta and the South (especially Georgia) and as public institutions they're a hell of a lot cheaper than John Marshall. Emory is more expensive, but it's first-tier and has a strong reputation. Even Mercer is a better choice. It makes me sick that "law schools" like this are allowed to operate when even the top schools are having a hard time placing their graduates.

  43. Jennifer Gore, the student body president at John Marshall 2011-2012 didn't even pass the bar exam.

  44. Tier four is the new tier three, what with all the online and non-accredited schools.

  45. John Marshall in Atlanta is a very good school. The rankings are lower than desired, but it's a newly accredited program that has improved tremendously in the past 10 years. It's slightly more expensive than the average, but that's how they get such wonderful professors. This is an up and coming law program doing great things in the community. Gideon's Army is alive and thriving!

    1. You also posted at 5:50 pm today, moron. I will address both of your idiotic comments, in this message.

      Atlanta's John Harshall Law Sewer is still rated as a FOURTH TIER PILE OF EXCREMENT, by US "News" & World Report" - in its 2014 law school rankings scheme. How does that constitute being "a very good school"?!?!

      According to the same issue, the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the AJMLS Class of 2012 who incurred debt for law school - reached $142,515. Furthermore, 92 percent of this unfortunate group took on such monstrous, NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. This figure does not include interest that accrues, while the student is enrolled. It also does not take undergrad loans into account. Hell, only 12 other ABA-accredited diploma mills produce graduates with higher student debt loads.

      If you are a certified public accountant, would you recommend anyone take on such debt, for a worthless academic "credential" from a fourth tier garbage pit?!?! Remember, legal employers care about the pedigree of one's alma mater. If you would encourage anyone to do so, then you are sick pig. Perhaps, you are merely incompetent.

      Take a look at this American Bar A$$ociation chart, which is labeled “ABA-Approved Law Schools by Year.” You will notice that this dung heap has been accredited since 2005. Yet, the commode is still ranked in the fourth tier of U.S. law schools.

      Lastly, at 5:50 pm, you wrote the following drivel:

      “You fail to consider that even applying to law school means you have a college degree. They aren't accepting 48% of the public at large. They are accepting 48% of the applicants, all of which took the LSAT and graduated from college. And they know ahead of time that most will not accept/enroll.”

      Are you truly this dense, or is this an act?!?! Of course, I recognize that the law schools only accept applications from those with Bachelor’s degrees and soon-to-be college graduates. A 48% acceptance rate is ridiculously high, for a “professional” program. Could you imagine if U.S. medical, dental or veterinary schools admitted such a high portion of their applicants?! In contrast to the ABA commodes, those schools have standards. You are welcome for the beatdown, Ignorant Bitch.

    2. All of you have a great deal of time on your hands. I am retired, and admire anyone that can get into law school. Why all the bitterness over a small law
      school? It sounds to me that most of you have a personal problem regarding this institution of higher learning.

  46. Ryan Robinson, the John Marshall graduate you guys blasted above, is indeed employed. He is an associate at Morris Hardwick Schneide, a firm with 85 attorneys in 60 locations.


      Apparently, he is doing so well at that firm that he does not even have a photo available. In fact, Ryan's bio is not posted.

      By the way, what in the hell is Closing Source Net?!?! Is this a lending services and realty closing rat's nest?

      "Firm Facts

      •Largest real estate closing law firm in the nation.

      •Overall 18th largest law firm in Atlanta as enumerated by the Atlanta Business Chronicle in September 2006.

      •Over 25,000 closings performed annually.

      •More than 50 offices across thirteen states.

      •Over 80 attorneys and more than 400 professional staff members.

      •Managing Partners with over 70 of years of combined experience.

      •Offices that cover six of the "Top Ten Hottest Cities" for corporate relocation as enumerated by

      •Offices that cover 36 of the top 100 fastest growing counties in the country as enumerated by the US Census Bureau in March 2006.

      •Title insurance agencies with ten major national underwriters.

      •One of the largest agents in the Southeast for the Fidelity National Financial family of brands.

      •Member of the Chicago Title Insurance Company President's Agent Council.

      •Update ranking for 2007 in Atlanta Business Chronicle."

      What a "prestigious" legal employer, huh?!?! His mother must be very proud.

  47. Atlanta's John Marshall Law School is a true shit pile. Anyone defending this school is either an employee or mentally retarded.

  48. Anonymous I would like to know if you are a graduate of AJMLS or someone that they curved out with lingering debt? I am seriously considering attending AMJLS and it is not that I can't get into any others, I have not even applied. If I attend I will be 50 years old when I graduate. I am already and Registered Nurse earning over $90,000 per year. I am not necessarily looking to work in a law firm. I actually want to start my own medical malpractice firm for "the little people." Recently my family (mom and sister) experienced what I consider to be gross negligence and malpractice. Both had unnecessary surgeries to remove healthy body organs that the doctors had lead them to believe was cancerous, only to find out they were not. Yet the lawyers that we contacted all stated they only handled "catastrophic" injuries. Everyone is just looking for the million dollar payday. What about the poor person who lost body organs and suffered wrong site surgeries but doesn't have a million dollar claim. I want to fight for them and if AJMLS is my only way to get there. Then so be it.

  49. I currently go to JMLS and I don't regret it for my situation. First, I go part time and pay as I go and will have zero student loans. YAY ME!! Second, I work for an attorney and I will have a job when I graduate.
    True, this may not be the best "investment" for a 23 year old who doesn't have a plan, but it works for me and most of the older part time students. All that matters is if I pass the bar and that is my only goal!! See you in court!

    1. Hello, you piece of trash.

      Finding full-time legal employment is what counts, Bitch. You have no guarantee that the lawyer you work for will hire you, upon graduation. Unless, of course, you are related to him - or performing "services" to him under his desk.

      Also, bar passage does not equal legal employment. Remember, law firms typically do not want to hire non-traditional students - because they want people that they can mold. If you do pass the exam, then have fun in this miserable "profession."

      Are you mentally challenged, douche-bag? What 30 year man or woman gets excited about the possibility of going to court?! Hell, experienced, practicing lawyers don't look forward to hearings or trials, Stupid.

      Check out this statistic, cockroach: only 43.5 percent of the JML$ Class of 2012 ended up in bar passage required jobs that are full time and long-term. Go to the site, and hit the boxes for those three criteria. The resulting chart lists Atlanta’s John Mar$hall Law Sewer as the 160th best, out of 204 commodes ranked. If it’s any consolation to you, idiot, it is rated seven spots higher, in this metric, than the JMLS located in Chicago, Illinois.

      BAM! How do you like that thunderous left uppercut to the bridge of your nose, waterhead?!?! You better have someone rush your ass to the ER, mental midget.

      Here is a follow-up kick to your face, moron. US “News” World Report lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of Atlanta’s JMLS Class of 2012 who incurred debt for law school - stood at $142,515. Hell, 92% of this unfortunate cohort took on such toxic debt. That figure does not even include debt from undergrad. It also does not take accruing interest into account. Then again, this total is $72 less than the debt load for JMLS grads from the Chicago location.

      I don’t mind stomping a mudhole in your ass, while you lay unconscious. USN&WR still has Atlanta’s John Mar$hall Law Sewer as a FOURTH TIER PILE OF TRASH. Good luck in the job search, ignorant dung beetle.

      Ultimately, putting food in the fridge, paying your bills and putting a roof over your head, feeding your children and providing them with a decent life is what matters!! LEGIONS of JDs have been financially ruined, due to attaining a "legal education." Go tell those people that you will see them in court, borderline retard!



  51. surprised at all the hate. despite it being a crap school and for profit, i know more than one grad who has started their own law practice and is happily practicing law and making a good income.

    1. Oddly some of the best trial lawyers I saw in Atlanta were grads of this school.

      Law sucks. Stay away. The work sucks. The work is boring. Ethics are in the toilet. Shit can the idea.

    2. It's just a numbers game. While compared to other schools it is certainly lacking. The author is railing against the perception that a JD is a meal-ticket; because it isn't. That's why he has stated many times, if you have employment secured then you will be ok. Preferably secured by a family member because any other person is free to change their mind. Attending this school myself, the instruction does not seem bad, but some of my contemporaries really should not be here. But me myself, I had a 2.8 in undergrad; a 146 on the LSAT and I made a 3.0 in my first semester. I am in a unique situation and plan to start my own firm.

  52. This law school is a ripe piece of shit.


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