Saturday, September 1, 2012

Humid, Second Tier Waste Pile: Georgia State University College of Law

Tuition: In-state residents attending this public toilet - on a full-time basis - will be charged $12,912 in tuition - for the upcoming school year. Non-resident, full-time law students will face tuition costs of $32,592.

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, Georgia State University Commode of Law is the 58th greatest, most magnificent law school in the entire nation. In fact, the puddle of rat piss shares this rating with the following schools: Lewis & Clark; Temple; and the University of Richmond.  Yes, that is one hell of an accomplishment!

Pathetic Employment Placement Data: The commode furnished the following intentionally ambiguous statement:

“Of the 186 graduates in the Class of 2011, Georgia State College of Law has detailed employment status information for 166 at nine months after graduation. The College has detailed self-reported salary information for 126 of 166 employed graduates.”

Notice how the bitches and hags do not even bother to furnish an actual employment percentage. Apparently, the school is relying on law students being mathematical dunces. If the thieves mean that 166 grads were employed within nine months of graduation, then this “placement” rate is 89.25 percent. However, the school merely may have collected employment status for those former students. In that case, this a meaningless stat.

Also take a look at the pie chart that the commode provided. Based on that graph, 25.9% of the employed members of this cohort ended up working in Business or Industry. If you earned a JD from this trash pit in 2011 - and ended up working at PetSmart or selling insurance policies for State Farm - then you were included in this category. These “in$titution$ of higher learning” are such beacons of integrity and ethics, huh?!?!

Georgia State Law Grad/Barista:

On August 31, 2010, KEYTLaw reported on CNN’s coverage of Georgia State University Commode of Law grad Shannon Hodder’s outcome. The piece was entitled “So Sad: 09 Law Grad in Top Half of Class Works as a Coffee Barista for $7.50/hour.”

Shannon Hodder graduated from Georgia State University – in the top half of her class. At the time this video first aired, she owed $60K in student loans, and earned $7.50 an hour as a barista!! According to this clip, Hodder worked in the DA’s office during law school, and sent out more than one hundred resumes – resulting in one interview and no callbacks. As a licensed attorney, she also accepted part-time jobs and unpaid internships. When this video went live, she lived with her fiancĂ© at her grandmother’s house. She was also raking in $12 an hour as a law clerk at 15 hours a week, at the time. Such outcomes are the hallmarks of a prestigious law school, right?!?!

Purported Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Georgia State JD Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $19,971. Sure, this amount is correct - and the Giants just added me to their 25 man playoff roster. According to this same document, 78% of this trash can’s 2011 class took on such toxic debt. Remember that these figures do not include interest that accrues on the outstanding balance, while the student is enrolled.

On August 11, 2012, Paul Campos reported on the ABA’s announcement that more than one dozen law schools provided incorrect average law school indebtedness figures. The entry was labeled “Character and fitness.” Check out the following portion: 

“Other schools whose average graduate law school loan totals almost certainly are going to end up being multiplied by roughly three: Georgia State, Southern, Texas Southern, and one I haven't mentioned before, Drexel.”

Faculty and Administrator Salaries: Thanks to Open Georgia, we can see how well the pigs are doing, in contrast to their students and recent graduates. Steven Kaminshine rolled around in $225,000 in salary, as dean of this ABA garbage heap - for 2011. He also received $6,598.76 in travel expenses. Roy Sobelson “earned” $178,919.04 as Associate Dean for Academic Affairs and “professor of law.” The Freud doppelganger took in $1,257.32 in travel costs. Their colleague Anne Emanuel raked in $146,635 in salary - with no travel budget - for teaching wills and trusts, as well as criminal law and procedure.

Conclusion: This school is a pile of rancid excrement. You will not be served well by incurring additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, and pissing away three years of your life absorbing archaic legal theory. Hell, this school does not even have the balls or decency to publish its employment placement rate!! If a law school cannot provide such basic consumer information to the public - and to potential students - then it is CLEARLY not worth a damn.


  1. Even a person that is legally blind from diabetes is not likely to pass the Brunner Test and have a Student Loan discharged in Bankruptcy:

  2. Anyone going to Georgia State for a law degree can't pass the Brunner test either. Or they'd see where the school doesn't provide employment % for its grads.

  3. 13K in-state and 64.5 percent nine-months-out, full-time, bar-required employment (according to LST). This place is clearly a pile of shit, but those numbers don't stink quite as bad as many in the 2nd and 3rd tier.

    Even so, I note that of the 120 (out of 186) who got bar-required full time jobs, 57 of them are in small firm law (firms of 2-10 attorneys).

    Did these kids really need three years of pseudo-Socratic bullshit from six-figure salaried professors so that they could learn approximately as much legal doctrine as is taught in a nine week bar review course? Did such a "template" of legal instruction provide them with amazing thinking skills that caused clients to line up at their doorstep?

    Get rid of the law professors and turn legal education over to the practitioners. I am sure that, for a fraction of what law schools customarily charge, we could create a two-year-long structured series of clinics and externships that would train students to try a case, write an appeal, and represent clients in a few practice areas of each student's choice, while allowing the kids to make extensive contacts among the local practicing bar.

  4. See now? It's this kind a shit dat leaves a bad taste in mah mouth. Can't deez muthafuckas has some courtesy 'n post honest numberz ' n shit? Shit, if the Colonel lied 'n told ya he wuz usin' 18 herbs 'n spices 'n shit, they shut meh down.

  5. Running low on schools I see. I hadn't even heard of this shithole before.

  6. This proves one very simple thing: Law is a supersaturated business. There are already enough lawyers everywhere.

    Of course, you get the Stadler's of the world telling Lemmings to suck it up and get over it, move to some small town, etc.

    It's bullshit.

    Demand for new lawyers is 99% negative, including now the top schools. People who get their jobs now are mostly through connections and predetermined social class. True, a small minority will get them through grades. The Preferred, Connected, and Protected class will use them for 3-8 years and when its time for a new Partner on the firm letterhead, take one of their own.

    Hard work means literally less than nothing today.

    As far as this dump, that video says it all. And with no job and interest on interest, even in-state tuition for 3 years is simply too high of a risk. The debt will never be paid off and more lives will be destroyed.

    What this shows is that even at so-called "minimal cost", the degree of risk in relation to the probable payoff is simply too great. In other words, all law schools, save maybe 3 for the moment, are simply not worth it.

  7. I like how the photo is just two lonely dog-turds on a street curb, symbolizing how nobody gives two shits about this nullity of a lawl skool.

    It's too bad that law school deathwatch website closed down, because I have a feeling that 2013-15 will be the period of the big contraction as the 4th tier wastepits implode, followed by the 3rd and 2nd tier. Hopefully the student loan issue will finally come to a head around this period as well, leaving Sallie Mae a smoking ruin.

  8. It's good to see JD Painter coming out of hiding. Everyone thinking of attending law school should see how his student debt has destroyed his life. You could find yourself walking in his shoes very easily.

  9. Law is now feeling the heat of automation and globalization. In a way it's poetic justice, because these assholes handled the mergers and acquisitions that led to offshoring. But then I realize its the evil Jews and WASPs running law who did this. And those cocksuckers aren't facing the music.

  10. Not hiding, I was just drained from the blogging and didn't see it as have any influence.

    But I'm in for a penny and in for a pound, and even after I leave I get mentioned and sometimes not in a good way. So I might as well stick around to possibly defend myself.

    And I'll continue blogging and with the "JD Painterguy" handle or name because that is what everyone seems to call me by now even after I change the name or the name of a blog.

    And it is election time BTW so everyone should try and comment on as many relevant online media/journal articles on topics relevant to student loans and the law school scam between now and election day.

    I guess I am voting across the board for the Democrats, unless I hear something more inspiring from Romney and gang that changes my mind on the topic of student loan reform.

  11. ^^ And it is also a little unsettling to see Clint Eastwood making fun of President Obama's visits to College Campuses to discuss student loans.

  12. I beseech you to find Jesus and accept him as your Savior. This will help you get over your feelings of regret and bitterness. Accept Jesus into your lives. Forgive your trespassers. And move on.

  13. @1:35PM

    Sure, but we cannot start blaming things on the Jewish people or the WASPS as 8:39AM says.

    Jesus and Mary were Jewish, last I heard.

    We are a Judaeo-Christian Country.


    According to Law School Numbers, Georgia STTaTTe UniversiTTy Commode of Law enrolled a total of 660 students - for 2011-2012. Do you think, for one second, that this trash pit is concerned with the overall glutted lawyer job market?!?!

    Here is the breakdown of the numbers:

    All FT Students: 457
    All PT Students: 203
    Total Students: 660

    LSN also does not list an employment rate at graduation, or within nine months of earning a JD from this garbage heap. (For instance, Law School Numbers lists the nine-month figure at 9.9 percent. This is clearly an error.) Apparently, the site compiles data supplied by the law schools. Since this particular diploma mill did not furnish decent information, then LSN's stats will also be murky.

    Of course, this second tier sewer is more concerned with being in the “top third” of ABA-accredited law schools. Apparently, that is a prestigious honor.

    On March 15, 2011, the school published a release labeled “Georgia State among top third of nation’s law schools in latest U.S. News rankings.” Their mothers must be very proud of this “accomplishment.” Look at this self-serving excerpt:

    “Georgia State University College of Law continues to be ranked among the top third of the nation’s law schools, coming in at No. 61 in the U.S. News Media Group's 2012 edition of America's Best Law Schools, which also ranks the school’s popular part-time program at No. 20 in the country.

    The college's highly regarded Health Law program continued to be recognized at the elite level, coming in at No. 5 in the current rankings.

    “These rankings from U.S. News provide further confirmation of the great legal education we are providing to our students at Georgia State Law,” said Dean Steven J. Kaminshine. “Our part-time program has long been a source of pride for the law school, and I’m glad to see it continue to receive this recognition as a fabulous program in the Atlanta community. The Center for Law, Health & Society, under the direction of Charity Scott, has consistently been recognized as one of the top health law programs in the country, and we are pleased to see that reflected in the rankings.”

    Of course, Ass-Clown Steven Kaminshine is being paid $225K per year as dean of the law school. Do you think that he might have a per$onal intere$t in making sure that the commode is perceived well, by the public?!

    @1:35 pm,

    If you want to provide a sermon, then you are in the wrong location. Do you feel that it is okay for academic thieves and “in$titution$ of higher learning” to swindle the taxpayers, students and their families?!?! If not, then take your message somewhere else.

  15. Find Jesus. I was 22 and my husband left me for another woman. I had to raise two kids on my own. I held onto bitterness and anger for so long. It was only when I let and let God that I got over it. I wouldn't be where I am today without taking that step. My son just started law school last week. I won't let him be persuaded by your angry message. And I for one don't think the schools are ripping off anyone. Please find Jesus. You and your readers. I'll pray for all of you.

  16. Why is it that Christians today always want to admonish the victim instead of rebuking the sinner?

    If you wannna preach, let's upturn the tables of the Money Exchangers at the Temple instead.

    A little Firebrand preaching to these law school deans, administrators, faculty, and staff would be a better approach, IMO.

    And while you're at it, giving the ABA a dose of the same medicine probably wouldn't hurt either.

  17. 12:56--You asked the $64,000 question.

    I notice that Christians who "want to admonish the victim instead of rebuking the sinner" are found mainly among those who fancy themselves as good capitalists but who were aided as much by government policies and a favorable legal culture as much as by their own hard work.

    This, I think, is a legacy of Calvinism, which essentially says that those who are rich and privileged are so because God chose them. In a culture ruled by such thinking, people work hard and long hours because they want to be seen as one of the virtuous.

    This, of course, allows the uber-capitalists to tell all of those people who are working three jobs that they should accept their lot in life "for the greater good," or some such thing, and allows law school deans to tell new graduates to get over themselves and lower their expectations.

    On a related note, I found it particularly disturbing that Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York addressed the Republican convention. Cardinal O'Connor, for all of his misogyny, homophobia and militarism, never would have done such a thing: He actually supported organized labor, among other things.

  18. This comment is for 9:05, assuming it isn't a flame and her son is actually in law school.

    When your son graduates with $100K in student loans (which he must pay back) and a job making $40K a year, tell him to get over it. If he asks to move back in, tell him to find his own place. Those who admonish the victim and excuse the criminal are pathetic.

  19. 9:05 is a white christian cracker.

    Enjoy having your son get ass raped by the law school scam. You won't find any sympathy from me. I'll make sure that your food stamps and TANF benefits also get cut. That way you can die in the street.

    Your last breath will be a prayer to your fake bronze age mythological god.

    And when you die you will cease to exist.

    Just like how you didn't exist in the year 1850.

    Dumb white cracker christian.

  20. That was pretty harsh, atheist lawyer. Harsh but funny.

  21. 9:05 should be more indignant towards the law school deans and professors that are conspiring with the money changers at the temple (i.e., banks, Sallie Mae, etc.). While you should feel proud to have raised a son as a single parent, you fail to see the errant path you have sent him on. President Obama has convinced Americans that higher education leads to the primrose path. The reality is that it leads to a one-way ticket to indentured servitude. Your son is a lemming who needs to find Jesus to put him back on the right track (and it's not law school).


  22. This lady presumes no one here goes to church or has morals. You can be an atheist and have morals. Get lost already. Don't forget to cast blame on the greedy pigs robbing the students of their future. They're also robbing Uncle Sam. When you got off your high horse you'll see that. Hopefully your son or daughter doesn't get fleeced. But the odds are in favor of that happening.

  23. Law skool leaves you in debt. It doesn't mean you'll get a nice paying job or even a career. Those days are done.

  24. On November 11, 2011, the trash pit published an article entitled “Designing a new home.” Look at the following excerpt:

    “Nearly three decades after it first opened its doors and carved out space in the Urban Life building on the Georgia State University campus, the College of Law is working on designs for a new building.

    After a lengthy pre-design process of studying the law school's programmatic and space needs, the project has advanced to the formal design phase, which is expected to continue through summer or fall of 2012. GSU is working to secure state bond support of $65 million and is in the leadership phase of a private fundraising campaign that hopes to secure the remaining $20 million needed to finance the cost of the building. If everything goes to plan, construction crews will break ground in the fall of 2013 and the new College of Law will open in the fall of 2015.

    Late last year, the Georgia State University Foundation made a significant investment in the project with the purchase of a parcel of land at the intersection of John Wesley Dobbs Avenue and Park Place, just north of Woodruff Park, for $17 million. The College of Law will share the site with the J. Mack Robinson College of Business, which also plans to build there. Earlier this year, the state authorized a $5 million bond issue to support design costs for the new College of Law building.”

    What a great investment for the state of Georgia, huh?!?! Apparently, the Atlanta area needs more marginally-employed lawyers!

    Later on, the piece includes this comical portion:

    "Law schools need coherent, integrated facilities that create a sense of community," Dean Steven J. Kaminshine says. "We've never had that kind of law building, and we've had to create that kind of synergy and programmatic integration within a very challenging physical structure that wasn't built for that purpose.

    It was never designed or intended to be a home for a law school. It's taken a lot of ingenuity and creativity to propel the law school as we have for 28 years in space that was really not well-crafted to do it."

    Cathy Henson, a 1989 graduate of the law school and a member of the Board of Visitors, echoed those comments.

    "I think it's important for the law school to have a sense of place that's comprehensive instead of a classroom on particular floor of a fragmented building, and I don't think we've ever had that sense of community at the law school," she said.

    GSU's College of Law has risen steadily in the U.S. News and World Report rankings of the country's best law programs, climbing from No. 97 to No. 61 in the last five years alone, and has been widely recognized as one of the top values in legal education in the country. A new law building would only burnish the school's growing reputation.”

    What was Kaminshine smoking before he uttered that mixture of New Age nonsense and corporate drivel?! In the end, this is all about playing the rankings game. The pigs FULLY UNDERSTAND that a new law school building is not going to increase their students’ and graduates’ job prospects. However, it will add to the commode’s sense of “prestige.” Plus, it will lead to much higher tuition.

    1. All this construction you see going on at US colleges serves two purposes: 1) to keep parts of the construction industry on life support and 2) to make the colleges look like they are planning for the future, not stuck in 1996. If they were smart they would know that 1 and 2 are easily-pierced window dressing....the American college is in a interregnum period and should just admit it.

    2. Agreed 100%.

      As soon as you see these places start pumping mega-dollars into new plant / facilities, you have to ask yourself, as has been asked here, what good is it? This is the Age of the Internet. You can parctically Google your way to a legal or any other education.

      But of course, that's not the point. As Strelnikov said, this is all for the benefit of the legal industry, as window-dressing, and other businesses that are involved (construction, contracting, etc.)

      It's all designed to Keep the Show going for the Lemmings. After all, physical facilities == Prestige, right??

      All bullshit.

  25. In the federal agency office I work at in Atlanta, we have unpaid interns from Georgia State (and UGA and Emory) volunteering every semester. Of the 50 or so attorneys in the office, exactly one is a Georgia State grad and he was hired in 1994. Lately, given the attorney glut of recent years, we've skimmed the cream off the type by hiring T14 grads with 5+ years experience. Nobody else has the slightest chance. (Notably, the pace of hiring has slowed to a trickle as we've only replaced retiring attorneys and retirements have been very few...)

  26. Yep. Georgia State is a great law school.

    Someone needs to close down all of these shitholes except for the state flagship public school and I guess the top 10 private ones.

  27. I would hire a Georgia State grad for free. If I saw a resume with that name on it, I would think it came from an inmate in the state pen.

  28. ^^^^^^^^

    "What we have here.. is .. a failure.. to communicate."

    "Takin' on hundreds of thousands in non-dischrageable debt he'yar, Boss!"

  29. Let's take a look at some of this trash can's academic programs. First, we peruse the Pro Bono Recognition Program:

    "How Student Pro Bono Participation Will Be Recognized

    Students who complete 50 hours or more of pro bono service during law school will graduate with "pro bono distinction." There are three levels of recognition:

    With Distinction is awarded to students who complete between 50 and 99 hours of pro bono service

    With High Distinction is awarded to students who complete between 100 and 149 hours of pro bono service

    With Highest Distinction is awarded to students who complete 150 or more hours of pro bono service[.]"

    If you want to be a chump and pay large amounts in tuition, for the opportunity to provide free legal services to others, then go ahead. I'm sure that this little distinction will push you ahead of graduates from name brand law schools.

    The toilet offers a track for Reading, Writing and Advocacy:

    "In RWA, students use the knowledge they obtain in Legal Bibliography to conduct manual and computer research on various legal issues. Students draft legal documents, including several inter-office memoranda, a client letter, and an appellate brief. The first semester focuses on objective writing and in the second semester students are taught persuasive writing. The second semester culminates with several rounds of oral arguments. RWA conducts an oral argument competition comprised of the students with the top scores in the oral argument rounds.

    Students who graduate from Georgia State University College of Law have a solid foundation in legal research and writing. They are capable of meeting the demands of the legal profession, and understand the requirements of effective communication in practice."

    Learning how to draft legal documents will come in very handy, when you are shut out of this garbage "profession," right?!?! When you are pouring lattes or stocking shelves at Costco, I am sure that this skill will benefit you greatly - just as my dimples will help me land a threesome with Lauren Graham and Jennifer Lopez.

  30. The school offers plenty of international programs, too. Some examples:

    "The Summer Academy in International Commercial Arbitration

    SAIICA has been sponsored by Georgia State University College of Law since 1994 and today enjoys the co-sponsorship of Johannes Kepler University of Linz, Austria, and the University of Warsaw, Poland. The program annually enrolls approximately 30-35 students in activities at a variety of locales in central Europe. Associated with the Summer Academy are two seminars centering on arbitration and international commercial arbitration.

    Perhaps, you prefer South America:

    "The Buenos Aires Summer Program

    The summer abroad program takes advantage of this unique site to offer an intensive experience in both U.S. and Argentine law. The program is designed to go beyond simply an extended visit abroad. The courses, faculty, student body and site visits are selected to provide a real understanding of Argentine legal culture."

    These programs are simply a way for law schools to attract students. As a benefit to the customer, these courses are usually graded easy and the workloads are pretty light. If you want to piss away a summer in a foreign nation, under the pretense of conducting legal research, then sign on the dotted line! Just make sure that money - or additional student debt - is no object.

    "Welcome to the Externship Program: Putting Theory into Practice

    The Externship Program at Georgia State University College of Law operates on the premise that the potential for learning outside of the law school is tremendous. The kinds of experiences available to our students in the rich metropolitan Atlanta legal community far surpass the opportunities of even the most expansive in-house clinical programs. Students interested in acquiring experience in almost any area of expertise may do so, including banking and securities law, criminal law, employment law, civil rights law, bankruptcy, and corporate law. In addition, the Externship Program includes a number of judicial clerkship placements with state and federal judges throughout the Atlanta area."

    Who doesn’t love the rise in “externships”?!?! Because providing pigs with free labor is going to help you immensely, right?!?! On JDU, cockroaches such as poster Venceremos used to tell recent grads that they should volunteer for law firms and government agencies, in order to gain “invaluable” experience. Whenever anyone tells you to undertake this task, look them in the eye and tell them that THEY should perform oral sex on homeless people - so that they can gain better insight and understanding. Plus, they will be helping others worse off than themselves in the process.

  31. The above are all hallmarks of trash pits.

    1) Emphasizing legal writing. No one cares.

    2) Pro-bono: Same.

    3) Sister schools / Semester abroad crap: Same.

    They can't emphasize USN&WR (the only thing that matters..) so they prey on students with the above BS, as well as things like saying that their "xyz (subject area) law program" is the best in the nation, etc.

    It's all about ranking and only so many schools, like so many students, can be in the Top 10, etc. Pedigree and ranking is all that matters right now in law, moreso than ever. Everything else is a disaterous financial and otherwise life-wrecking cliff-drop.

    These schools are all frauds, like the banks, and its definitely systemic. When each and every law school touts the same "93% of graduates employed within 9 months" - every school - that's the same as the robosigning banks. Clear fraud.

    Politicians, masquerading as judges, the same judges who benefitted greatly from the Scam, protect the schools when they are sued.

    That, as another wise commentor has said before on this site, is indeed America. It's all about getting yours at someone else's expense.

    Systemic indeed.

  32. I graduated from GSU Law and have no beef with the place. In fact, I think that the students are by and large as good as what one will find at Emory. But the practice of law sucks shit. It just does. Sorry, I have been doing this for some time and am not willing to die selling my soul billing hours or in a courtroom.

    As a sidebar, some of the sleaziest lawyers I have run into at any level (I have worked with the lowest of the low to the top of the dungpile) are those who graduated from the so-called "top-tier" schools. Including judges. This "profession" is absolutely rancid, and trust me when I tell you that the ones making money are, 9 times out of 10, exercising the values of a common hooker in how they go about business. Never have I seen so many amoral people in my life. The rich ones might dress it up to smell a little less like the sewer it is.

  33. I'm not disagreeing with everything said here, but Shannon Hodder isn't a very good example. She became an ADA for Dekalb County about a year after passing the bar. That just doesn't scream "unsucessful" to me. The 3 ADAs I know love their jobs and will have all their loan debt eventually discharged for state service...


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