Monday, January 7, 2013

Third Tier Raw Sewage: University of San Francisco School of Law


http://www.usfca.edu/law/jd/tuition/

Tuition: Full-time USF law students will be hit with $42,284 in tuition costs, for the 2012-2013 school year. SBA and LRAP fees add another $80 to the big-ass tab. Those attending on a part-time basis will only be charged $31,757 in tuition – for 2012-2013.

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same document, the commode lists estimated living expenses for its students. The trash pit forecasts that these costs will run up to $22,760, for those living off campus. Keep in mind that ABA-accredited diploma mills base these figures on a nine month, academic year.

Seeing that actual law students will require living costs for the full twelve months, we reach a more accurate estimated COA of $72,211 – for those living off campus – for the current year. Room and board would amount to $19,200, instead of $14,400, while transportation costs would be $1,547 – and not $1,160. Plus, personal expenses would climb to $7,600, rather than the toilet’s published figure of $5,700. Who wouldn’t want to attend such an affordable law school, huh?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+5

Ranking: Based on the monstrous, ridiculous costs above, this school MUST have one hell of a reputation in the legal and academic communities, right?!?! Well…US “News” & World Report rates the Univer$iTTTy of $an Franci$co Sewer of Law as the 106th greatest, most phenomenal and wondrous law school in the entire land. In fact, it shares this distinction with Third Tier Drake and the University of Hawaii.

http://www.usfca.edu/law/career/employmentstats/

Published Employment Placement Data: Scroll down to the hyperlink labeled Class of 2011 Summary Report from NALP. On page one of the PDF, you will notice that only 103 grads – out of a class of 209 JDs – landed jobs where “bar passage was required.” That equates to 49.3% of the class. Regarding “placement rate,” only 172 members of this cohort reported being employed within nine months of graduation. This figure amounts to 82.3 percent of the Class of 2011.

Head to page three of the file, and look at the subheading Size of Firm. You will see that 83 grads reported working in law firms. Of that amount, four desperate souls went into solo practice, while 48 others worked in firms of 2-10 attorneys. In fact, only 12 grads were employed in firms with more than 50 lawyers, which is a mere 14.46 percent of these 83 law graduates. Based on the entire U$F Sewer of Law Class of 2011, only 5.74% ended up in law firms of 51+ attorneys. Do you still like your odds, Dumbass Lemming?!?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Univer$iTTTy of $an Franci$co JD Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $137,234. By the way, 79 percent of this toilet’s 2011 class took on such toxic debt. Remember that these figures do not include interest that accrues on the outstanding balance, while the student is enrolled in school. At least, the commode is ranked in the first tier, in this category. After all, the figure above represents the 15th highest average debt load for law students. I suppose that the sewer rats view this as a great accomplishment.

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2011/941/156/2011-941156628-0836a1d0-9.pdf

Administrator and Faculty Pay: Let’s compare the salaries of the pigs, against the debt-soaked students and graduates. For this information, we look at the 2011 Form 990 for Employer ID 94-1156628, i.e. the University of San Francisco. Scroll down to the last two pages of this IRS document.

Jeffrey Brand raked in $336,945 in TOTAL COMPENSATION – as dean of the law sewer - for the tax year ending May 31, 2011. Yes, the albino swine “earned” $283,541 in reportable compensation, plus $53,404 in “estimated amount of other compensation from the organization and related organizations.” Joshua Rosenberg received $281,585 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, in his role as “professor.” Who says that higher education doesn’t pay off extremely well?!?!

Conclusion: Do not attend the University of San Francisco School of Law, if you are not SERIOUSLY connected, protected or preferred. Unless you have stellar business, political or family connections, don’t bother applying to - or enrolling in - this third tier commode. Law school critics often point out that one’s first semester grades determine one’s future possibilities in this glutted field. In fact, a person’s path in this area is largely determined by their LSAT score. In the end, this test decides where you will be admitted. If you attend a non-prestigious law school, then you will find it incredibly difficult to land decent employment upon graduation. The wealthy and connected do not need to worry about "working hard," earning high grades or networking with broke lawyers.

If you are a person of average means, ask yourself how you will be served by incurring an additional $145K-$195K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a TTT law degree. Biglaw firms care very much about the name brand on your undergrad and law degrees. In order to reasonably pay off your student loan debt, you will need to earn at least a six figure income for several years. In the end, the law school pigs do not give one damn about you, the student and graduate. To them, you are simply a means to an end. If you are a non-traditional student with a family, the rats will consider your spouse and kids as “collateral damage” – to the extent that the academic sociopaths will even give them a second thought. After all, the cockroaches are paid up front, in full.

48 comments:

  1. Hey can anyone comment? Of course theres a lot of talk of unmanageable student loan debt.

    So, what about those government jobs where you stay for 10 years and they pay it off for you? Or is there a catch, besides staying 10 years at the same place of work?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The catch? yes, you don't earn "big law" dollars. You take on cases that no one else wants to do and you get assigned clients by the state. So its basically like public interest for people that don't earn enough to pay for a lawyer.

      Delete
    2. IBR, ICR, and all other government granted forgiveness of loans are not based in contract but in federal law (premption). Read your IBR agreement (if they even have a non oral one),

      Then check history of student loan laws. Congress has taken away perceived rights and SCOTUS did NOT find violations of contract or promissory estoppel (See Higher ED Act of 1998 ((applied retroactively)) and 2005 BK law change ((same retroactivity applied.)))

      Rely on IBR at your own risk.

      Those who don't open their eyes to history will not know the replay when it's on...



      Delete
    3. My name is Darris, and I am writing to inquire as to how difficult it is to get into the University of San Francisco School of Law. I am applying to several other law school in the Bay Area such as Golden Gate University and UC Hastings and the students at those schools said that they applied to USF and said that USF accepts anyone who applies. Is that true or not? I didn't do so well in college, but I was inducted into an honor society and did significant amounts of community service and volunteer work. I will be taking the LSAT soon. Email me at dthomas7@dons.usfca.edu. Thanks!

      Delete
  2. The catch is getting a government job.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The second part of that is hanging on to that govt job with both hands and not getting shitcanned before 10 years. Not so easy in today's job climate. This ain't fucking 1960 (or 1980 for that matter) where you can count on keeping your job for 20 years or more.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Flee to Canada, as I always used to tell JDPainterguy. It's not North Korea, just a British America where they put vinegar on french fries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And the also have universal health care too!!!FREE!!! none of this "health insurance paying monthly" bullcrap!!

      JDPainterguy can always go to Canada, Australia, England or New Zealand! hahaha they are countries just as good as the U.S. and in fact, right now economically are offering more opportunity than the U.S.!!! ....

      Delete
  5. So its possible for them to keep you for 9 years, then lay you off leaving your loans outstanding? Whats to stop them from intentionally doing that?

    ReplyDelete
  6. @9:31AM

    That you Epic Fail/Infinity playing yet another personality?

    And how about the school?

    ReplyDelete
  7. #106 (in da whole count'ry?) Got dayem. when I was practicin' law (before I beat da shit outta a client in da courtroom) I don' believe we's had mo' than 'bout 4 o' 5 dozen some law schools back then.

    Whoomp there it is
    Whoomp there it is
    Boom
    Shakalaka shakalaka shakalaka

    Whoomp there it is
    Whoomp there it is
    Boom
    shakalaka shakalaka shakalaka

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Annoying, but it beats "Who Let the Dogs Out?" and the "Macarena."

      Delete
  8. Why isnt there a Law degree delivery system developed on the line of a McDonalds meal. Volume pricing and cheap. All beef... Drive the pigs out adn you'd be prepared to manage the corner MickyDs.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Let us not forget that the university is also in San Fransisco so unless you have family to live with there, then you'll also be out of pocket for a simple 1 bedroom hole-in-the-wall apartment that will run you $1,000...that or you can sell yourself in the Castro district to pay for everything!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are many reasons to go to San Francisco. This school is not one of them.

      Delete
    2. Definitely, and it really is such a shame that its not only the law schools who keep upping their prices, but its every educational institution everywhere, and basically its the few at the top (the Uni. President, deans, academic deans, heads of department,some college professors) that are making good money, and they keep dishing out student loans like its nothing.

      San Fransisco, nice place!! just extremely expensive, then you also have the Golden Gate University Law School there as well. *sigh*, its very sad that this is happening when people just want to get ahead in life and make a decent living.

      Delete
  10. Excellent article re: the student loan bubble:

    http://www.infowars.com/the-student-loan-debt-bubble-is-creating-millions-of-modern-day-serfs/

    ReplyDelete
  11. Cost of living in San Fran is crazy. Shit, you're looking at $200K in debt when it's all said and done.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Also, a catch to getting a government job out of USF is that you went to USF. My dad does OCIs for his state agency and they have stopped going to USF because, as he put it, all the USF students were "stupid."

    ReplyDelete
  13. That looks like a river of shit. Which is an accurate picture of one's job prospects coming out of this school.

    ReplyDelete
  14. The commode is in search of a dean.

    http://www.usfca.edu/law/deansearch/

    "The law school and university are seeking a leader who can build on the law school’s strengths while providing the vision to evolve and thrive. Candidates should demonstrate excellent management and communication skills, have the capacity to establish a visible presence for the law school to its many constituencies, and be committed to fundraising as a central focus. We are seeking candidates who embrace the university’s inclusive vision, mission, and values, which promote respect for all, ethical reflection, humanity, and the pursuit of justice.

    USF is an equal opportunity employer dedicated to affirmative action and to excellence through diversity. We welcome all applicants, regardless of their religion, race, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, national origin, age, or disability.

    The Search Committee will review applications as received. Applications should be completed as soon as possible but no later than December 15, 2012.

    Inquiries or candidate nominations should be directed to Ana Karaman, Vice Provost and Dean Search Committee Chair, at takaraman@usfca.edu, or to the search firm of Isaacson Miller at 4675@imsearch.com."

    Apparently, some ABA-accredited diploma mills are not embarrassed to provide job postings - for the position of dean - online. What a prestigious in$TTTiTTTuTTTion, huh?!?!

    http://www.usfca.edu/about/values/

    Here is the link to the Jesuit univer$ity’s supposed vision, mission and values.

    “Vision

    The University of San Francisco will be internationally recognized as a premier Jesuit Catholic, urban University with a global perspective that educates leaders who will fashion a more humane and just world.

    Mission

    The core mission of the University is to promote learning in the Jesuit Catholic tradition. The University offers undergraduate, graduate and professional students the knowledge and skills needed to succeed as persons and professionals, and the values and sensitivity necessary to be men and women for others.”

    Yes, financially ruining ambitious, young people is something that Jesus would condone, right?!?! Take that “humane and just” platitude and shove it up your portly asses, academic thieves. Apparently, the pigs want you to believe that they have your best interests at heart. If that were the case, then the bastards would not continue to contribute to the GLUT of attorneys – since doing so does not help graduates become successful. In the end, the only thing these schools value is federally-backed student loans.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You've said similar things about other law schools attached to religious colleges before....but it needs to be repeated: everybody in a leadership capacity in higher ed's just doing it for the money.

      MONEY IS THEIR GOD.

      Not Jesus.

      Not Allah.

      Not Shiva.

      Not JVJH (Ha'Shem.)

      MONEY.

      Play that fucking Pink Floyd song and be done with it!

      Delete
  15. Anybody under the age of 60 (and with some college background) ought to realize by now the schools are simply cash machines. They all have a shit ton of assets and cash. They pay no real property taxes. The school's assets are tax exempt. The admins are seen as respected members of the community (an old notion). It's a big fucking scam all the way around. It's not just law schools or shitty ass PhD programs.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Good old Alan Collinge.

    He was around before the scamblogs came and most of them disappeared, and he is still here.

    He commented on this article recently, which I found thru the "Education Bubble and Scam Report" Blog (See blog list above right):

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-rhode/bankruptcy-student-loans_b_2416031.html

    The one simple message that Collinge has is that Consumer Bankruptcy protections must be restored for all student loan debt. End of story.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Nando, it's time for you to take Prof. Steve Diamond to the trash bin:

    http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1902:we-were-wrong-about-professor-diamond-and-we-apologize&catid=42:news&Itemid=71

    ReplyDelete
  18. BL1Y 2
    Steve Diamond 0

    ReplyDelete
  19. Morons going to a bottom tier ABA approved law school in California would have been much better off going to a cheap non-accredited correspondence law school that has a tuition of $4,000. You can still sit for the California bar and when you find a job at least you wont have a mortgage size student loan. You can sell your used car to pay the tuition and ride a moped instead. Plus you saved on opportunity cost by taking classes online and working still.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anyone that goes to law school these days is...stupid, with very few exceptions, unless you get into Harvard or Yale, or have familial connections.

    US News and World Reports is a detrimental influence on the legal profession. There is no difference between a number 25 ranked law school and a number 80 ranked law school. Employers don't really care. It is a silly game law schools play, trying to go up in rankings, while not addressing real issues.

    Then you have the pig-trough bottom tier law schools that just don't give a fuck about their graduates. They claim to be "inclusive," but it really means they have no standards. If law schools matched the bimodal salary statistics of graduates, deans and faculty at the bottom half of the schools would be working for free or minimum wage.

    The majority of law grads are loading up on debt, at non-Harvard, Yale, Stanford law schools, and entering a terrible job market, where unemployment or low paying shit law, is a very real possibility. It is a sucker's bet. The legal job market will slap them upside the head like a baseball bat. Law school is about legal theory, there is nothing theoretical about paying rent, a dental bill, or a car note.

    Sometimes, I have the need to place an ad to hire an associate and get hit with 30-50 licensed attorney resumes, pretty quickly. Some will fall over themselves and offer to work for free, just to get any real experience to put on their resume. Sad, just sad. Quit subsidizing sacred law faculty and college presidents.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Let me get this straight...

    third tier law school
    located in expensive San Francisco
    and competing for jobs in the glutted CA legal market.

    No thanks. I'll pass.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I'm sure those Stanford and Boalt grads are shaking in their boots competing against USF lawyers.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Let’s take a peak at this trash pit’s “public interest” programs:

    http://www.usfca.edu/law/jd/curriculum/pil/

    "Public Interest Law

    USF has a strong commitment to public service and many of our graduates practice public interest law by devoting their careers or volunteering their time to represent disadvantaged people or to promote public causes.

    Some work for non-profit organizations, government agencies, or international organizations. Others work in law firms but devote a portion of their time to uncompensated pro bono activities.

    A public interest practice helps clients in need of free or low-cost representation because of poverty, age, youth, or other obstacle to enforcing their legal rights. Lawyers in such practices often use law to advance equal rights and fight discrimination.

    Public interest issues span every area of law, so virtually all of our course offerings are relevant to a career in public interest law. To prepare for a career in public interest law you should take a broad range of courses, including courses like Administrative Law and Corporations as well as courses that will enhance lawyering and problem solving skills."

    When an ABA-accredited school markets itself as a haven for those who seek a career in public interest law, you know that it is a pathetic toilet. Who the hell wants to incur an additional $150K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - for a chance to work in such a low-paid field?!?!

    http://www.usfca.edu/law/jd/certificates/pil/

    But that’s not all this toilet offers! As a student at this pile of waste, you have the opportunity to earn a certificate in public interest law. Of course, the best use for such a document is for lining your cat’s litter box, lemming. By the way, when potential employers see a bunch of community service dreck on your resume, they immediately see you as a loser.

    “Public Interest Law Certificate

    A commitment to public service is one of the essential elements of the law school's mission. True to our mission, we support students and graduates in their pursuit of careers in public service.

    Apply for the Public Interest Law Certificate
    Students may earn a Public Interest Law Certificate through a combination of course work, practical experience, and community service.

    To receive the Public Interest Law Certificate, students must complete all of the certificate requirements and all of the requirements for the JD degree. Students intending to complete the requirements for the Public Interest Law Certificate are subject to all of the law school's academic policies, including rules governing enrollment priorities.”

    ReplyDelete
  24. 10:00am, I vote to leave Steve Diamond alone. At least he had the balls to talk to people.

    ReplyDelete
  25. It's not just law schools that are a scam. Look into M.B.A.s and other grad schools.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Thank you, Nando, for waging the fight!

    You update your blog a lot more often than I do mine! (I'd hate to get into an Internet fight with you: You'd kick my butt!)

    But, anyhow, my blog, linked below, is not only VERY comprehensive, but I did update it --and list ThirdTeirReality in both the "main" 'Legal' section (I created a new section, primarily inspired by you and other Law School Abuse blogs), but also in the unabridged 'Other Resources' section below -and it is hosted on 4 mirrors by 3 Internet service Providers, in case one is attacked and taken down or something:

    * http://GordonWatts.com/Higher-Ed-Tuition-Costs.html


    * http://GordonWayneWatts.com/Higher-Ed-Tuition-Costs.html


    * http://ThirstForJustice.net/Higher-Ed-Tuition-Costs.html


    * Gordon_Watts.Tripod.com/Higher-Ed-Tuition-Costs.html



    I would be most grateful if you could list my blogs in your blog roll.

    :-D

    ReplyDelete
  27. Nando, take a look at this story:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-09/jacoby-meyers-wins-round-in-nonlawyer-investor-dispute.html

    Do you know what this means for future lawyers and current lemmings? Soon, you too will be competing with Walmart Legal Services. Why pay a lawyer $500 to do an uncontested divorce when you can wait for Black Friday and pay only $100? Good times ahead for this profession.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The second non-lawyers get involved with running law firms, things are going to get even more...interesting.

      To be honest, this would be a great development if it weren't for student loan debt or the necessity of wasting 7 years to serve.

      However, the second big banks and professional managers become involved in law firms, you're going to see even more downward pressure on attorney salaries. My guess is that the days of the $160k lower-level BigLaw Associate will become immediately numbered.

      Delete
    2. Yes, non-lawyers will apply efficiency metrics and project management workflows. Say goodbye to the billable hour if these bottom feeders have their way.

      What the non-laywer investors really mean is that the partners will be able to cash out their positions in the law firms and ride off into the sunset, on golden parachutes.

      Delete
  28. A career in public interest law is a viable option if you don't care about the salary. I have known some very good attorneys who work for agencies like the ACLU, Southern Center for Human Rights, Lambda Legal, etc, generally for salaries like 25-40 K per year. With one or two exceptions, they were either Trustafarians or had high-earning spouses who did not mind paying all the household bills. The rest lived in borderline poverty (eg no car, took public transportation, shared an apartment with 2-3 roommates, lived on rice and beans, etc).

    8:57 PM--you could add a lot to that list. I read that culinary schools are getting sued by their grads too. These places charge 40-50K or more to teach you how to cook (really, with TV and the internet can't you learn to cook without going to a school??) and when people get out most can only find minimum wage jobs chopping vegetables.

    ReplyDelete
  29. New JDs Will Pay Fee To Shadow Experienced CT Attorney: It's come to this ...

    http://lawandmore.typepad.com/law_and_more/2013/01/new-jds-will-pay-fee-to-shadow-experienced-ct-attorney-its-come-to-this.html

    ReplyDelete
  30. The legal profession is a real shithole. If your delivering pizzas and you hate your life (or job) just remember it's better than owing these cocksuckers $100K in student loans. Especially if your job prospects are shit.

    ReplyDelete
  31. This is truly the beginning of the end for the practice of law as we know it in the U.S.:

    http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/closing_act_ethics_20_20_proposals_crack_open_the_door_for_foreign_lawyers/

    ReplyDelete
  32. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/the-lawyer-surplus-state-by-state/

    On June 27, 2011, the New York Times Economix blog published Catherine Rampell’s piece titled “The Lawyer Surplus, State by State.” Take a look at this meaty portion:

    "We’ve written before about the tough job market for recent law-school graduates. The climate is hard partly because of the weak economy, but also partly because the nation’s law schools are churning out many more lawyers than the economy needs even in the long run.

    Now a few researchers have tried to quantify exactly how big that surplus is.

    The numbers were crunched by Economic Modeling Specialists Inc. (also known as EMSI), a consulting company that focuses on employment data and economic analysis. The company’s calculations were based on the number of people who passed the bar exam in each state in 2009, versus an estimate of annual job openings for lawyers in those states. They also looked at data from the Department of Education on law school graduates each year to get another measure of the quantity of new lawyers. Estimates for the number of openings is based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.

    According to this model, every state but Wisconsin and Nebraska (plus Washington, D.C.) is producing many more lawyers than it needs. (See table after the jump for full data, and additional caveats.)

    In fact, across the country, there were twice as many people who passed the bar in 2009 (53,508) as there were openings (26,239). A separate estimate for the number of lawyers produced in 2009 — the number of new law-school graduates, according to the National Center for Education Statistics — also showed a surplus, although it was not quite as large (44,159 new law grads compared with 26,239 openings).

    In raw numbers, New York has the greatest legal surplus by far.

    In 2009, 9,787 people passed the bar exam in the Empire State. The analysts estimated, though, that New York would need only 2,100 new lawyers each year through 2015. That means that if New York keeps minting new lawyers apace, it will continue having an annual surplus of 7,687 lawyers.

    California and New Jersey have the next largest gluts of new lawyers, according to EMSI."

    Plus, California hosts some of the top law schools, such as Stanford, Cal-Berkeley, UCLA, and USC. Furthermore, there are 21 ABA-accredited schools in the state. Good luck competing for jobs in that GROSSLY OVERSATURATED legal job market.

    Here are the figures for the state of California, as compiled by EMSI:

    Estimated annual attorney job openings - from 2010-2015: 3,307
    2009 Bar Exam Passers: 6,258
    Surplus: 2,951

    ReplyDelete
  33. I am a 1988 graduate of the University of San Francisco School of Law. Following graduation and despite not having graduated at the top of the class, I had employment opportunities in California but returned to Texas where I was from. While landing the "first" job was a challenge, I attribute that to the condition of the market place versus the law school I attended. Eventually, I landed a job as a trial lawyer for a government agency and after two years of proving my metal to the local bar association and judiciary, had plenty of job offers from all of the private "large"firms in the region. Eventually, I chose the offer that I felt gave me the best opportunity for growth. I would go on to become a partner at two different law firms and in 2006 started my own shop. Now my firm has 6 lawyers and we are looking to hire a 7th. Our firm's practice is focused on providing high quality trial services to Fortune 500 companies and our niche is in the field of transportation law. My diploma from U. San Francisco law has served me very well and I beleive it prepared me for my life as a trial lawyer.

    This is an interesting blog and while I do not agree with all the viewpoints, I do appreciate the various perspectives. The bottom line is that for life as a lawyer in 80% of the markets in this country, most do not go to Harvard, Yale or Stanford. Court rooms in this country are filled with lawyers and judges who went to schools in the 2nd and 3rd tiers. The key to success beyond impecable ethics is work ethic and an appreciation that you must pay your dues. I have reached a point in my professional life where the years of sacrafice, working very long hours for pay your dues wages have paid off. There continues to be room in the marketplace for hard working young lawyers. Success ultimately will be determined by the committment made to the profession. So while I agree that those that are not "all in" for a career as a lawyer, I would say that for those who are, work as a lawyer and going to law school, still has a tremendous upside. And with all of the onoing doom and gloom news relative to the economics of a legal education and the job market for lawyers, the market will open up nicely for those who decide to jump in and make a committment for the long haul. But remember for those who do go to law school, regardless of where you go, dont expect milk and honey. Becoming a good lawyer and thus a profitable lawyer is a grueling process that will take years, but actually not a whole lot different than other professions. It took me approximately 12 years of total dediciation as a lawyer before I started seeing a significant finanical return on my investment. At this stage of my career - 50 years of age and on my 25th year of practice - the practice is not only going very well, it also has many perks including giving me an opportunity to travel the country, make an impact in the industries as I serve as a lawyer and open doors for young lawyers who show promise.

    So keep up the dialogue, exchange of information is good, but remember that it is not all doom and gloom, but particularly for you Generation Y people, it takes hard work, working late into the night, working on weekends and on holidays and having the passion to do your very best. If you can maintain a sustained effort for 10+ years, it will pay off. If you cannot, start a blog perhaps.

    Best of luck to all of you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You meant "mettle," not metal.

      Delete
  34. I'm a '96 grad of USF Law School. At the time I graduated, I did not have a job. After 1 year, however, and as a result of connections made during summer internships, I landed my first job and have been gainfully employed ever since. I ultimately became a partner at a mid-size law firm earning $240,000 a year. I'm a little surprised at how far the school has sunk in rankings. Based on the low percentage of grads obtaining employment, it sounds like the school needs a new dean and new career placement counselors. I can tell those folks considering USF that the school is well respected in San Francisco, you can get a decent job though it may take a year, and you can earn decent money.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. San Francisco and surrounding areas are terribly expensive places to live, ass-hat. When you factor in tuition and the pathetic employment prospects, this spells economic disaster for the students. Plus, educational debt is NON-DISCHARGEABLE, tool.

      It is completely irresponsible of you to tell others to attend such a dung heap, when you KNOW that the school has a weak-ass "placement" rate. Furthermore, California is the SECOND MOST GLUTTED lawyer job market in the country, according to Economic Modeling Specialists Inc.

      http://www.economicmodeling.com/2011/06/22/new-lawyers-glutting-the-market-in-all-but-3-states/

      You are the exception to the rule, Bitch. Do not act as if your situation applies to the average law student at this commode. By the way, dolt: do you think that firms prefer to hire grads from USF over JDs from Stanford or Cal-Berkeley?!?! Hell, Santa Clara and UC Hastings are in the area, and they are both ranked much higher than your toilet.

      http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+6

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  35. I wrote a previous note approximately 1 year ago and wanted to make a few additional observations.

    I believe far too many young people are choosing to attend law school simply because they want to extend out the exemption from the real world that "student status" and further because with the job market so bleak, these young folks chose a J.D. path as a resume builder over an MBA or a Masters in some other field.

    The problem documented by this blog has several root causes. First and foremost is the poor decision making of the consumers - those students who chose to attend law school not because they really want to be lawyers, but rather because it affords a deferment or an edge, even if they have no aspirations to practice law. Nothing could be further from the truth. Even if you graduate from a top flight law school, if your heart is truly not in it, you will not be a success in this profession and you will find yourself dealing with lots of debt while searching for your true life's passion.

    Additionally, fault also lies with law schools which promote "non-traditional" career paths after law school or who misrepresent employment and earnings data. Bottom line, if you want to become a social worker, teacher or motivational speaker DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. That is misguided advice as students who fall into this dimension need to pursue other forms of academic training, if even any. Also, law schools need to be honest and transparent in their reporting and the ABA and state bar associations should require accountability and truth in reporting. Since legislatures are full of lawyers that may be a tough thing but candidly perhaps this is something that should be undertaken at the federal level.

    I will still say that there are opportunities in the law, but it takes passion and yes if you have resources to help pay the freight (family support - scholarships) then it makes it much more bearable. I agree. I cannot rationalize a young person incurring lots of debt to enter the profession at this moment in time. Maybe 10 years from now it will be different.

    Finally, this gentleman "Nando" missed his calling. Theatrical writing - if it is a field - he has it down. I read this blog principally to get a kick out of the exchanges. It is calming to see that despite these heady issues, there can still be laughter, even if sarcastically said.

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  36. I had a recent conversation with a young lawyer who was fortunate enough to land a job with a large international law firm. I am a regional lawyer having founded a small firm and we traded notes on the status of law school and career prospects of aspiring new lawyers. These are some of the topics we discussed.

    One thing to point out is that "Big Law" and graduates of the "Top 8" law schools do not exist in many markets in the United States. As noted, in our city of 800,000 people, 1000 lawyers, 600 of which are in private practice, less than five (5) come from the Top 8 law schools. So our legal community is made up principally of lawyers that graduated from traditional lower tier law schools. The bar is aging, we have very few new entrants into the profession for the same reasons I have outlined, very few law firms or government agencies are hiring. At the same time, the segments of our community that need lawyers (immigrants, poverty level criminal defendants and very small business owners) have no money to hire lawyers and are as a whole un-served by the existing bar.

    Because our law firm depends on a constant flow of solid hourly fee paying civil trial work from corporate organizations, I am constantly with my ear to the ground and attempting to get the real pulse of the legal services market. I read this blog principally because it gives me a tremendous insight into just how challenged the legal markets are in each pocket of the United States.

    Entry to this current legal market will remain very tight in my view for another 10 years. It will take that long for law firms and lawyers to adapt to the ever changing appetite and needs of a much more sophisticated and money conscious client population. In the meantime, many law schools who look only to perpetuate an antiquated system and not look to completely undo and re-invent their approach to legal education will perish. Attrition, age etc. will create some openings in the market place but not anywhere at the pace these law schools continue to want to pump out graduates. The legal market can probably only honestly support 30% of the law schools and graduates they produce and even then, I would estimate that of all students who enroll in law school, only 10 to 15% will ever ascend to the level of financial success that is traditionally associated with a lawyer career.

    It is a jungle out there folks. And rather than viewing it as discouraging folks from pursuing legal careers, I would rather say that in lieu of going to law school, today's high school and college students should consider the very many options that exist for careers beyond the law.

    Now is not just a good time to pursue being a lawyer.

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