Thursday, February 21, 2013

Fourth Tier Excrement Pile North Carolina Central University School of Law: Extending Opportunities for Failure and Financial Ruin

Tuition: In order to find this data, you need to head to the main university website. Scroll down to page 14, for law school tuition rates. The pigs felt the need to supply these figures, on a per-semester basis. The commode estimates that in-state, full-time law students will be charged a total of $11,949.82 in tuition and fees, for the 2013-2014 school year. Non-residents attending this trash pit full-time will face a projected bill of $28,877.82 – for 2013-2014.

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, NorTTTTh Carolina CenTTTTral Univer$iTTTTy Sewer of Law is rated in the magnificent, splendid fourth tier of U.S. law schools. Consider the following, for a moment: of the six law schools associated with historically black college$ and univer$itie$, only Howard cracked into the top, amazing three tiers. I profiled Texas Southern University on this blog, back on May 26, 2012. I re-checked the toilet’s ranking. It is still in the fourth tier.  The same applies to the UDC David A. Clarke Sewer of Law.  As those with an IQ above 70 are aware, a school’s reputation matters when you are looking for legal employment.

Employment Placement and Starting Salary Figures: Take a look at this silly nonsense, regarding post-graduate employment:

“The overall calculated employment rate for the Class of 2011 is 86%. This figure includes those students who are enrolled in LL.M. Programs (4%). These numbers are based upon a 93% response rate from the class of 2011.” [Emphasis mine]

Based on the statement above, the “placement” rate was 82 percent, for the Class of 2011 – since sitting on your ass, and incurring further student debt, in an LLM program does not constitute work. Also, it is convenient to ignore the grads who did not report their job status to the school. Then again, maybe those men and women were too embarrassed to supply their big-ass salaries to the commode, right?!?!

“Due to the new categories introduced in this year’s survey, we have a more detailed picture of what our graduates are doing in the business and industry sector of the economy. Approximately 12% of our graduates in this sector report employment as temporary attorneys; 15% of our graduates are engaged as temporary paralegals or law clerks through legal placement agencies. This is reported as employment in the business/industry sector under the National Association for Law Placement’s (NALP) guidelines.” [Emphasis mine]

Yes, those are incredible outcomes for debt-strapped law grads, huh?!?! After all, who the hell doesn’t want to become a doc review automaton?! Looking for key phrases in windowless basements sounds amazing, does it not? Perhaps, you would prefer to work in a temp hag agency.

Under Salary Information, you will note the following: only 23 percent of the 2011 graduating class bothered to report their income to the garbage heap! On that basis, the school lists an average salary of $53,389 – and a mean income of $46,200. Of course, these underwhelming figures would drop further, if the other grads’ data was included. Remember, successful law students and JDs love to brag about money. 

Do the math, people. Try paying off $90K-$120K in student loans, including debt from undergrad or other advanced degree programs, on a $50K salary. Then deduct health insurance premiums, federal and state income taxes, SSI, Medicare, etc. Imagine trying to get married, purchasing a home or starting a family on such wages. Now attempt this on a $35K-$40K salary. Even if you live in a rural area, you are going to have one hell of a time making a living under these circumstances.

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the NCCU Law Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $70,120. By the way, 71 percent of this commode’s unfortunate 2011 class took on such toxic debt. In comparison to most ABA-accredited diploma mills, this figure is low. However, this is still a significant sum. Keep in mind that this figure does not include undergraduate debt. It also does not take accrued interest into account.

Conclusion: Avoid this pile of rotting waste, if you do not have OUTSTANDING family, business or political connections after graduating from college. In the final analysis, you will not be served well by incurring an additional $80K-$120K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a TTTT law degree. Legal employers care about the caliber – or name brand – of an applicant’s alma mater.

If you attend this cesspool, then your future opportunities are limited – from the moment you walk through those doors to orientation. Critics point out that one’s future is determined by first semester law grades. Actually, if you enroll in a true laughingstock, then you are already screwed. Do you still have your little heart and mind set on law school, Lemming?!?!


  1. TTTs and TTTTs shouldn't even exist. Legal employers won't even look at you for a job if you graduate from a shithole like this.

  2. It's just amazing that these places have been feeding at the public trough of government backed student loan dollars for so long.

    Like Pigs in #$%$%#$% they squeal and roll around it while treating 90% of their students like three headed idiots.

  3. How do these places even exist in states like NC where they have a decent state law school like UNC? No NC legal employer or possible NC client is going to consider hiring you from a dump like this. You literally have to be retarded to attend this school.

    The law school/higher education scheme gives a whole new meaning to: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

    The law school pigs should be locked up for fraud, misrepresentation, and racketeering. The future of this country is in serious danger due to the indebtedness of this next generation. These pigs are getting fat off of the backs of these clueless idiots.

  4. I really really wish the federal government would get out of the student loan business, or at least do some basic underwriting and stop making loans that are unlikely to be paid back. If that happened then half or more of law schools would quickly shut down. It is insane to force one person to guarantee another person's loan esp. to attend a shithole like this.

  5. NC Central grads are fucked. They aren't even in the same ballpark as Duke and UNC lawyers. Or Wake Forest for that matter.

  6. Law schools are scum bags. They prey on people with false statistics, pumping out unprepared law grads, into a glutted job market. The main beneficiaries of the system are law faculty. The best service a law school could do, would be to close their doors forever. Law schools should serve the profession, instead of serving themselves, like they do now. The ABA is a corrupt organization, saturated with law deans and faculty, pushing their agenda to keep the law school coffers full and to keep benefits like tenure in place.

  7. Who here would blow Cryn for all their student debt to be wiped away?

    1. Money is not everything. I may be in debt, but at least have my honor intact. No way I'd touch that skank.

    2. Easy pal, you are hurting Painter's feelings. He would it her out on a heart bit.

  8. Could be worse. You could graduate from Campbell.

  9. I think it's particularly disgusting that law schools associated with historically black colleges and universities have such poor reputations and employment prospects. They do as much to impede racial progress as any number of slaveowners or the KKK ever could.

    I mean, how can any African-American hope to improve his or her lot in life, let alone his or her family or community, by going into debt to go to a school like this one?

    1. You guys on this excuse for a blog sure seem INSECURE about perceived competition. Don't you know its not WHERE you go to law school; its WHAT you DO with what you know. Why drink haterade and dump on others who are making their own ways? When you could pay attention to building your own strategy without being so obviosly intimidated by a crowded local market...Remember, its a BIG world that extends beyond Jersey, the East Coast, even the United States...

  10. At least in-state tuition is cheap. Not worth it, but it isn't Cooley.

    And I'd bang Cryn to get rid of my student loan debt.

    1. I didn't ask if you'd bang Cryn. I was asking if you would blow her to wipe out your student laons.

    2. He cannot blow her. He only could eat her out. But while it is a disgrace in itself it is not enough to discharge his loans. Chin up kid, your are a member of the Bar albeit a very poor one.

  11. Take a look at this filthy offering, from this fourth tier pile of rat feces:

    "Street Law

    Street Law is a one-semester, one credit-hour externship offered in partnership with the Durham public schools. Second and third-year law students are placed with a middle or high school social studies teacher, most often a tenth grade Civics and Economics teacher, and teach a series of classes on legal topics aligned with the teacher’s lesson plan and the North Carolina standard social studies curriculum. Typical lessons taught by law students cover such topics as criminal law and the criminal trial process; the North Carolina and Federal court systems; and Constitutional law and criminal procedure, especially the landmark U.S. Supreme Court cases that form the framework of our legal system.

    Law students are provided a variety of materials and resources for use in teaching. In the first part of the semester they attend a weekly seminar in which they learn about teaching methods, plan teaching activities and practice delivering a lesson. They meet their cooperating teacher, observe class, and plan their teaching schedule. They then teach a minimum of six classes in cooperation with the teacher."

    For $ome rea$on, the lemmings will not mention the GLUTTED legal job market to their middle school pupils. I doubt they will even refer to the high cost of entering this garbage field.

    The course description continues:

    “Benefits of Street Law

    Teaching law to high school students provides excellent practical training in skills law students will use as attorneys, particularly in the areas of communication and client relations. Many students find Street Law’s most valuable lesson is learning to break down complex concepts and communicate about the law in terms that tenth graders, or clients and juries, can understand. Teaching Street Law helps sharpen public speaking and presentation skills, as well as honing the ability to think on one’s feet in response to unexpected questions. Street Law students also deepen their own understanding of the subjects taught, an excellent way to refresh their knowledge in preparation for the bar exam.

    Street Law students bring the real world of law into the high school classroom. They help make legal and civics concepts relevant and exciting to high school students, enabling them to understand the legal system and ultimately to participate more effectively in society. Studies show that Street Law-type courses have an impact on reducing juvenile delinquency. Street Law students also serve as role models and ambassadors for the legal profession, and expose the students they teach to information about legal careers.”

    Apparently, sTTTTreeTTTT law is now the equivalent of the D.A.R.E. program. The school is preying on young kids, due to their sense of idealism. Hopefully, those children can figure out that street law is low-paid drudgery – while dealing with the lowest elements of the species.

  12. Those high school students will probably be driving nicer cars than the law student driving to their school to teach STREET LAW

  13. Unreal .... John Koch has taken down his blog AGAIN. Even his most ardent supporters will quit following his subsequent blogs. :(

    1. Painter ought to go by JD Quitter. It's what he does best.

      The guy should've dropped out of fucking law school when he had the chance.

    2. Here is a job for Painter or anyone else who is having a hard time finding one: Pet Food Tester

      It should be noted that he spits, not swallows.

    3. Quitting is what he does best. And he sucks at that too. He didn't quit law school, but he quits everything else.

    4. Haha, HELLLP! Hey Strelnikov, we could use some of your white knighting over here, pronto!

  14. Actually Street law would not necessarily be a bad thing except that even in the creditable things fourth tier law schools do there is exploitation.
    The norm for students doing instructional work is that the student gets paid. What level or what work doesn't matter. Undergrad TA's get paid, grad student TA's get paid. Even resident advisors get paid and get room and board. Not that much I'll grant you, but it is the principle of the thing.
    One credit hour also feels like a ripoff.
    Lastly people should in no way be encouraging people to go to law school as high schoolers. People should pick their undergraduate major with the assumption that they will bomb the LSAT and will not be able to go to law school. (No one at all should enroll in "pre-law" and no one should study political science unless they like poli-sci and think they can make money doing it)

  15. You do not even need to be a full-time law student at this fourth tier cesspool, in order to earn a certificate in something called “ju$tice in the practice of law.” Did an eight year old child come up with this naïve concept?!?!

    “Certificate for Justice in the Practice of Law

    North Carolina Central University School of Law offers a comprehensive online curriculum in the field of Justice in the Practice of Law (JIPL), open to all law students across the nation. Students who complete the eight JIPL course credits will receive a Certificate in Justice in the Practice of Law.


    *Students must be in good academic standing at an accredited U.S. law school to apply to the JIPL Certificate Program.
    *The JIPL Certificate requires eight hours of academic credit in JIPL courses.
    *Students must use NCCU Law technology.”

    Take a look at some of the TTTT courses offered, by this dung heap:


    Legal Problems of the Poor (Two credits)
    This course examines crime, race relations, and poverty. Emphasis is focused on the amelioration of social problems by examining the nature of special interest groups, causes of crime, and the treatment of criminal offenders.

    Capital Punishment (One credit)
    This course examines the specific legal issues inherent in capital punishment within the general area of criminal law and procedure. Included will be detailed coverage of both substantive and procedural law of capital punishment, as well as the roles of lawyers, judges, and juries within this legal system. Law and legal analysis in death penalty statutes and cases are the major focuses of this course, with attention also given to empirical analyses of the practice and philosophical examinations as to its wisdom.

    Predatory Lending (One credit)
    This course will discuss federal and state laws that deal with predatory lending. This course will also help students to identify predatory practices that are either illegal or bad for the consumer and how to work with consumers to avoid the consequences of these actions.”

    These are serious, deep-seated social problems. However, YOU are not going to change the $y$tem - even if you are armed with a little law degree. These ills will persist as long as people are greedy. Keep in mind that these laws are drafted and passed by MANY state legislators and members of Congre$$ who earned JDs from TTTs and TTTTs. In the end, such courses are meaningless. The pigs teaching these courses - and the students who participate in these foolish programs - may feel good about engaging in “a good cause.” But they sure as hell are not going to chip away at these institutions, in any significant way.

  16. For all of your Student Loan debt Collection needs, go to Goldamn, Warsaw and Warshaw P.C. DBA: Goldman Warshaw and Parella in NY.

    Pine Brook, NJ. 07058

    Also in other locations in NJ.

  17. Just a hunch:

    34 Maple Ave. Ste. 101
    Pine Brook, NJ 07058

    Other addresses and locations to be revealed over time.

    They are in the PRIVATE Student Loan Debt collection business and have the very powerful tech means and also the primary motive to troll these blogs, and are lawyers too.

    Also private businessess are likely Conservative in their political arguments) per the troll with the clever roving IP that is probably doing it all on company time and with the Goldman and Warshaw computer resources)

    On the other hand, Fed. gov't EE's get paid and end of story and so why should the Dept. of Ed. ever want to troll the scamblogs and so maliciously?

    One IP address was spot on in fact. Roselle Park, NJ.

    Wouldn't you like to know where?

    1. And you wonder why nobody wants to visit your roach blog.

      It costs money to match up an IP number to a physical address. Heaven forbid you use that money to pay down your debt or anything.

      Read that chapter yet?

  18. "Predatory Lending (One credit)
    This course will discuss federal and state laws that deal with predatory lending. This course will also help students to identify predatory practices that are either illegal or bad for the consumer and how to work with consumers to avoid the consequences of these actions.”

    There's something ironic about a law school offering a course on predatory lending...

  19. Predatory Lending (One credit)
    This course will discuss federal and state laws that deal with predatory lending. This course will also help students to identify predatory practices that are either illegal or bad for the consumer and how to work with consumers to avoid the consequences of these actions.”

    I wonder how much time this course devotes to students loans. In particular their unique non-dischargability, the predatory way that they are marketed, the convertibility of other debt to the student loan category, and the potential results of studying for certain high-cost degrees like law. The fact that the Brunner test requires a person to be dead or quite close to it should be mentioned in a course of this nature, as should risks to cosigners of student loans.

    I guess the problem with devoting course time to that particular economic injustice is that the class would essentially be teaching law students to drop out of law school.

  20. If they are going to offer a course on predatory lending then why don't they just mention the law school scam which is the worst form of predatory lending.

  21. So I'm yella hey?

    I'm no fightin' Father Duffy hey?

    Well that's what they told Plunkett (Played by James Cagney) before he jumped on a live grenade and saved the whole Platoon.

    And supposin I do pay the debt off someday?

    I wonder if the senior partners at the NJ collection firms appreciate their young pup lawyers trolling the scamblogs?

    1. No, you're just a bum who mooches off his parents and refuses to get a government job and have his loans discharged.

      You'd be more likely to throw everybody else in your platoon ON to that grenade. All to save yourself. Witness your fantasy about making poverty-stricken people in Africa chip in to help pay off ***YOUR*** debt.

      You keep promising to go away forever - but a day or two later, you always come back.

      Are you, like, ADDICTED to lying? Or what?

    2. "Witness your fantasy about making poverty-stricken people in Africa chip in to help pay off ***YOUR*** debt."

      Maybe Painter could join the Peace Corps.

  22. Fuck law school and the fuckin' fucks that operate 'em.

  23. I suppose that the lawyers that go into debt collections all do a ok and have a powerful lobby in dc and dance with cryn at the balls.

    The last thing the private debt collections industry wants is for consumer bankruptcy rights to be restored for student loan debt.

    Because they would be out of business.

    Or maybe they can then jump ship and start representing floodgate clients in bankruptcy court?

    That will never happen.

    But the feds are weak in that they do not have the resources and will have to farm out debt collections to private interests/law firms that get paid by federal funds.

    The great paradox. The nexus between govt and private interests.

    What a mess, and what crappy individuals the mess has enabled.

  24. Let’s peruse the NCCU Sewer of Law profile, from Law School Numbers:

    Take a look at these pathetic numbers, for the trash pit’s Class of 2016:

    Undergraduate GPA

    75th percentile: 3.91
    Median: 3.55
    25th percentile: 3.26

    LSAT scores

    75th percentile: 150
    Median: 147
    25th percentile: 143

    If you are too damn dumb to score 150 on the LSAT, then you can still get into this commode. Hell, if you merely hit 143, then you have a fighting chance to gain admission to this fourth tier pile of excrement! If you would prefer to get drunk the night before the stupid exam, then you could probably still do well enough to get into NorTTTTh Carolina CenTTTTral UniversiTTTTy Sewer of Law.

    The LSN feature continues:


    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The North Carolina Central University class of 2011 had an employment rate of 79% with 4% pursuing an additional degree.”

    These are spectacular outcomes for people who have spend at least seven years in post-secondary “in$titution$ of higher learning,” correct?!?! How many of those “employed” grads ended up working in call centers, insurance sales or the retail industry? Of course, ABA-accredited diploma mills are still allowed to include such graduates in their employment “placement” rate. Apparently, the pigs and cockroaches believe that someone working the cash register at Macy’s has benefited from earning a JD. After all, those “communication skills” will come in handy, when you are dealing with paying customers, right?!

  25. Also remember, is a more so 'afro american' university, and so the standards aren't as high as you would see in an everyday 'anglo-saxon' university....could you call it discriminatory against black people? well...thats something personal.

    I now await Nando to go to town on Southern University in New Orleans....another 'afro-american' law school.

    Let it be known, that these afro-american universities have a somewhat high-attrition towards white folk as well. There are stories I have read on the internet about people who have gone there, and have been flunked can't believe everything you read on the internet, but then again, it would not surprise me a tit-for-tat thing.

    Another one that comes to mind is one in Houston as well (forgot the name)...thats another more so afro-american law school

  26. Has anyone heard from Doug lately? I hope he's still with us.

  27. Who cares about that worthless piece of shit? Is it too much to ask that he do the world a favor and drank a jug of Drano?

  28. Central is for whites who can't get into unc or wfu or even Campbell and blacks who are too dumb for law school but need a place to hide their affirmative action advantages.

  29. I'm sitting in a class at rutgers camden right now. A student is giving a presentation. The professor is asleep. Quality.

  30. I go to this shithole. You obviously haven't done your research. The professors keep telling us that MANY successful TRIAL lawyers, judges, and PUBLIC INTEREST advocates come from our school and many more reap the benefit of public interest work and loan forgiveness. Why would they lie to us?

  31. The education in itself is not bad. The school has terrible placement prospects because the profession discourages competition from outsiders that could drive down wages even more and has an elitist attitude to hiring under the guise of meritocracy. However, the school exists because believe it or not there was a time when black people couldn't go to those coveted prestigious law schools. For the price of a really nice car, you can get a good education. I am not a proponent of misleading prospective students. However, you may as well bash car manufacturers for selling over priced cars that depreciate after you drive them off the lot. In both instances, it was a free will decision to incur the debt and a little research goes a long way before making a major decision. It is better to educate than perpetuate stereotypes about the school. Why would anyone that didn't know the history of the school want to hire a NCCU grad when they read stuff like this? This blog and some of the comments are part of the problem not the solution when the message is delivered this way.

  32. I'm glad that there are blogs like this. It is good to read what people really think. I didn't know people wasted so much of their time on wild speculations. I'm a Central graduate who is gainfully employed and financially stable. So thanks for your thoughts and concerns. I, like many of my colleagues, am practicing law and managing in this tough economy.

  33. Blogs like this are very insightful. As I scrolled through the comments I wondered how many of them were written by lawyers, or fellow law students. Of course comments addressed bleak employment prospects (which can be seen at most schools in the country), and student debt burdens (likewise seen nationwide). What blogs cannot accurately address is the quality of the institution or the quality of the individuals in attendance. Oftentimes when individuals are not successful it is because of their own failed efforts not the institution. North Carolina Central University has an impressive law school that offers quality courses and clinics. U.S. News Ranks NCCU's Clinical Programs 4th in the Nation! The school has been voted as one of the most popular law schools in the country! For those who attempted to down play the educational value of this university by mentioning the lower 25% of lsat scores, perhaps it should have been mentioned that this institution is more selective than most, accepting roughly 17% of students. It is safe to assume that many here are bitter individuals that did not get accepted by the institution of their choice, flunked out of law school, are bored, or unaccomplished individuals in whatever profession they chose. Good Day :)

  34. I was actually surprised to learn about NCCU Law's reputation throughout NC and other surrounding regional states...I believe the most recent comments accurately capture NCCU Law more so than the actual blog. While the write up vividly portrays a reality that most to all law students will face; the author seems to believe that their bleak outlook for law grads from this school is absolute and automatic....not true. This particular school produces practice-ready attorneys that have received an extremely rigorous legal education.

  35. Looks like the PR department at NCCU have found this article. Welcome, new friends.

  36. Currently a prospective law student from North Carolina, and will most likely be attending central. I could have go to UNC, or Wake, but I can graduate central with under $30k in debt. Also it isn't a top school in any means, but it was well respected in the area assuming you aren't going for any huge major firm job in places such as Charoltte or Atlanta. This school is perfect for someone who wants to get JD, but isn't dreaming of the big $160k jobs, rather the decently paying, small market attorney jobs in North Carolina.

  37. This law school is a putrid shit heap.


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