Sunday, February 3, 2013

Third Tier Humid Waste: Howard University School of Law

Tuition: Full-time law students will be slapped with a tuition bill of $29,360 - for the 2012-2013 school year. First year victims will also need to shell out $2,000 for a damn laptop. That must one incredible machine, huh?! Computer lab and mandatory fees add another $1,383 to the big-ass tab.

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same document, the total budget for first year law students, starting in Fall 2012, stands at $55,964. Of course, the rats base this estimate off of a nine-month calendar. 

Seeing that actual students will require living expenses, I have prorated the following items: food, transportation, housing, and incidentals. Doing so, we reach a more accurate total COA of $62,469, for the current year. At least, second and third year students will not need to pay $2,000 for a laptop computer, since they did so when they enrolled at this trash heap.

Ranking: You would expect such a school to have a strong reputation among the academic and legal communities. US “News” & World Report rates Howard Univer$iTTTy Sewer of Law as the 119th greatest, most remarkable and amazing law school in the United States. In fact, the commode shares this prestigious honor with the following six diploma mills: Drexel, Stetson, Akron, Arkansas-Little Rock, Maine, and VermonTTT.

Employment Placement Data: There were 157 members of the Class of 2011. The school compiled employment status info on 145 of these graduates. Of the latter figure, 127 reported being employed within nine months of graduation. This represents a “placement” rate of 87.6 percent. If based off of the entire cohort, that number would drop to 80.9% for this particular class. Then again, the 12 grads who did not provide info to the school were probably too humble to brag about their gigantic incomes, right?!?!

Furthermore, only 91 graduates landed jobs where bar passage was required. On page 2 of this PDF, you will note that only 54 members of this group reported their salary to the toilet. The median income is listed as $60,137. Under Employment Categories, you will see that only 33 grads ended up in private law practice - and the income levels for those grads appear to be much higher. Consider the following, for a moment: a total 157 JDs issued for the Class of 2011, and only 21 percent of the class reported working in private firms. What a great “investment,” for the average student at this school!!

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Howard Univer$iTTTy JD Class of 2011 who incurred debt for law school - as $113,283. Incredibly, 99 percent of this class took on such foul debt. Remember that these figures do not include interest that accrues on the outstanding balance, while the student is enrolled in school.

University Administrator Salary Info: Let’s see how well the “educators” are doing - at the expense of their students. For this information, we will rely on the 2011 Form 990 for Employer ID No. 53-0204707, i.e. “The“ Howard University. Since this “non-profit” corporation also features a medical school, ostensibly no member of the law faculty appears on the list of highest-compensated employees - under Part VII of this tax document.

However, it is nice to see that this school still pays a former university “president” a sum of $185,510 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the tax year ending June 30, 2011. Yes, H. Patrick Swygert raked in $168,157 in reportable compensation, plus $17,353 in “estimated amount of other compensation from the organization and related organizations.” By the way, the bastard now teaches the following courses at the Sewer of Law: Corporations; and Law and Higher Education. The current head of the university, Sidney Ribeau, made out with $721,915 in TOTAL COMPENSATION, for the same year.

The school also paid out some serious cash to its former Senior VP of Human Resources, as well as to its former VP of Research. Apparently, this constitutes a great use of funds.  Who says that “higher education” doesn’t pay off extremely well for the scammers?!

Conclusion: Howard University Sewer of Law has been touted as a school that provides black students with a decent chance to enter Biglaw, academia or prime governmental posts. That may have been true at some point. However, only 21 percent of the overall class, for 2011, reported working in private law firms. If you do not have serious family, business or political connections, then do not even consider this third tier waste heap. You simply DO NOT NEED to incur an additional $120K-$150K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a chance to practice law. You can do meaningful work - even if it does not pay very well - without pissing away your future. 

In the end, law school should be viewed PRIMARILY as a financial decision. If you hear “law professors” tell you that you shouldn’t be so focused on money, ask those pigs how much they make for their minimal “work.” Then, point out the tuition rate to the parasites. For $ome rea$on, these academic sociopaths demand to be paid well - but expect YOU, the student, to go into massive debt with no expectation of a return on your “investment.” Again, you are on the hook for those loans. Significant student debt will hamper your ability to start a family or purchase a home. The law school swine are clearly not looking out for your interests. You need to make the best economic choice, for yourself.


  1. F**k those pigs. Burn baby burn.

  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    1. What's wrong with fixing your clothes dryer? It's more useful than most of the s**t that law profs teach during their ten hour work weeks.

    2. Um, according to Professor Campos, you promised not to post at ILSS.

  3. This school sucks Godzilla dick

  4. plus, living in DC is mighty expensive

  5. Hey, I found a quote on the Howard University website:

    Howard School of Law is dedicated to producing “social engineers.” As stated by Charles Hamilton Houston, “A lawyer’s either a social engineer or … a parasite on society … A social engineer [is] a highly skilled, perceptive, sensitive lawyer who [understands] the Constitution of the United States and [knows] how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering conditions of the underprivileged citizens.”

  6. I can't believe how much these "educators" are paid. The President paid $721,000, all on the backs of students going into debt. Non-profit status, and access to government backed student loans, should make college faculty be paid more in line with a charity, not Wall Street.

    1. If he got 99% of the students to take on 100k in debt he should be paid twice what he was given. Salesman of the century.

  7. Talk about holding back the progress of the race...

    I can't help but to think that the administrators of this law school are trading on the university's erstwhile reputation as "the black man's Harvard." Maybe they voted for Romney, Reagan and both of the Bushes because, hey, the Republicans were the Party of Lincoln.

    I can't speak to the university's current reputation, or how academically strong it actually is. All I know is that the law school isn't your father's Howard.

  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

    1. Here is what Professor Campos posted on his blog, "Inside the Law School Scam" on Wednesday, January 30, 2013.

      "Housekeeping detail: JD Painterguy has assured me once again that he will no longer post on this blog. COMMENTS REFERRING TO HIM IN ANY WAY WILL BE DELETED, INCLUDING IN THIS THREAD. Please abide by this policy."

  9. JD Painterguy - I have responded to you before. You have something to add to the debate over the horrid state of affairs in the law school market. You lack however, social context and focus, both of which likely hurt you tremendously in law school and in study for the bar. It has also hurt you in the job market, because law degree or not you come across as someone who would interview very poorly (way too self absorbed). I know these are not easy things to say, but if you would focus on the hard data points which are beginning to surface, you could be of significant value to others. Your personal experiences should be a footnote to persuasive, data laden pieces on the law school problem, as opposed to being front and center. Moreover, as I have related to you before, you have had an inside look at the various loan instruments which are all too often weapons of financial instruction. You should write about them, and their dangers, in an objective and not so self indulgent way. You could do a world of good for a financially inexperienced audience - i.e., young people 18-25 who just have little idea (by and large) how toxic student loan instruments can be.

    The problem is not that you did not go to a first tier law school. Face the issues head on, and rise above your own self indulgences. Don't take this wrong - I would like to see you succeed.

  10. As a student at this third tier commode, you will have the unique opportunity to write onto the Human Rights & Globalization Law Review!

    "The Human Rights and Globalization Law Review (Law Review) is a voluntary, student-managed and faculty-supervised, unofficial publication at Howard University School of Law. In 2007, the Law Review became the successor to the Howard Scroll: Social Justice Law Review (Scroll). Expounding upon the foundation of Scroll, the Law Review seeks to publish timely articles that focus on and contribute to an ever-changing, national and international, legal landscape.

    In line with the mission of the law school, the purpose of the Law Review is to enhance scholarly dialogue on various issues of humanity, equal justice, social policy and worldwide development. Accordingly, the Law Review serves as a legal and academic outlet for addressing thoughtful questions, and proffering answers about topics such as poverty, human trafficking, company outsourcing, genocide, mass incarceration, women’s and children’s rights, and the wide-ranging implications of war."

    Hell, attending this trash pit may provide you with personal knowledge of poverty and industry outsourcing. What other GLUTTED, shrinking “profession” requires its future practitioners to incur mountains of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt?!?!

    By the way, I am at the state capitol this morning. Every year, I see legislative interns and young political junkies who brag about starting law school in the Fall. Many of these dolts end up attending commodes on the Eastern seaboard, because they would rather attend a top 25 law school rather than one that is local and ranked slightly lower.

    In the end, these kids may have a few minor connections in the local political arena. However, grabbing coffee and researching bills is usually the extent of their “pull.” Plus, the idiots typically leave the state. Many of their mentors also have law degrees, and they are certainly not doing that great either. I see these older men wearing the same cheap-ass suit coats, white socks, and worn-down wingtips. In fact, the young interns are typically dressed sharper than the men they want to impress or mimic.

    The lemmings - especially those with useless Political “Science” degrees - lack experience in the world. They simply do not realize that the lawyer job market was much better in 1970 or 1985 than the one that they will face. If their mentors couldn’t make it, then how in the hell are these kids going to come out on top?!

    Tuition has SKYROCKETED in the last 25 years, with a pronounced ascent in the last ten. The job outlook for attorneys is much worse today, as the ABA-accredited garbage piles have produced FAR TOO MANY graduates, each year, for decades. Of course, those afflicted with Special Snowflake Syndrome will only learn by personal experience.

  11. $2k for a laptop? I got a perfectly good one from Wal Mart online for less than $500. What kind of computer is it? Is this like the mandatory health insurance (e.g is someone getting a kickback, or is it another was to pad the school's bottom line?)

  12. Its so crazy cuz I want to apply here at Howard for law school. I met President Ribeau and he's nice...his job is worth $721,000 though.

    When are you going profile Washington & Lee and William & Mary??? Im pretty sure their grads are suffering right now.

  13. I thought about applying here for law school. I met President Ribeau and he's nice...his job isnt worth $721,000 a year.

    When are you gonna profile William and Mary and Washington and Lee?? Im sure their grads are suffering right now

    1. I too would love to see W&L profiled, and that is just not my alumni "pride" speaking.

      W&L is a non-T14 first tier school (a "trap school" in Prof. Campos's phrase), and one of the very few (under 10, I believe) law schools whose applicant pools has actually increased over the last year or two. They are getting all kinds of favorable publicity because of their third year "practicum" thing, which they assert constitutes genuine sklls training.

      As it happens, I am a proponent of practical skills training. But those inclined to praise W%L need to ask: (1) Is a third year "practicum" (basically an externship plus classroom meetings to yap about that externship) sufficient training for the real legal practice, when the first two years are just same old/same old?; (2) Why does W&L charge the same amount in tuition for year 3 as for years 1 and 2?; and (3) Has W&L's placement stats risen the last year or two, along with its applicant pool?

  14. Johnny Pianterguy,

    I too, have followed your blog and what you have written, and yes, I am in agreeance with the person who wrote abobut you also. Yes, you are in debt $300,000+, but however to my understanding, you also have an English degree no?? Which is more than a political science degree. If you did not pass the bar (as you stated) you could have been an English teacher (back in the day before you debt got out of control) at a school which would earn you more money than painting. It might not have been the best paying job in the world, but would have eased somewhat of the financial trouble. However, decisions were made, and can't be gone back on. The best you can do today is mentor people about not taking on such a huge debt, especially if someone has a useless degree in Political Science

    Going to law school is not bad if you can get a scholarship or if you have a productive bachelors, masters or even PhD degree to help pay for whatever a scholarship does not make up for, and also, at the same time, will fill up your resume instead of having 3-4 empty years on it due to going to law school full time. I know plenty of people who have done exactly that. Gone to law school, but yet have used their degrees such as Sec. Education, Accounting, Business Management, Engeniering to help pay for law school whilst attending on a part time basis.

    However on the other hand, law schools play a very sad game with scholarships to basically make it so that you do not keep it.

    Education in itself is just continuing to skyrocket. Like all things, it will hit it's breaking point, explode, and then will somehow make a recovery, and for law schools to make a recovery, there will have to be a complete reform such as cutting tuition by half or giving out garanteed scholarships of a very generous amount so students, as Nando has said, won't take on such toxic debt that will tie them down for many years, especially if you have a simple Political Science degree, because you can't do anything with that really, you would be forced to get a masters and a PhD in Poltical Science to give classes in a university to somewhat save yourself.

    Keep up the good work Nando, and best of luck to you JD Painterguy!

  15. This comment has been removed by the author.

  16. I didn't think this school's tuition was all that bad at first. But it is a TTT. No TTT should charge more than $15K per year. You get what you pay for. And with law school, you're paying for the name brand.

  17. Fuck. They nail you with fees too. Like the tuition wasn't enough.

  18. It is quite painful to see this school amongst these entries. Although it cannot be argued that Howard doesn't deserve it.

    One would think that as important law has been in the uplift of the Black man, a law school at a Black research university would do something other than charge 50k, teach the exact same worthless cases and, mouth the same worthless platitudes.

  19. Howard University instills the highest ethical standards in all its graduates. That is why it was national news when a Howard University trained emergency room doctor was arrested for intentionally letting a patient die and stealing his Rolex Watch. Imagine what their unemployed law graduates will do for money?

    1. ^ But Rolexes are worth serious money.

    2. He went to Morehouse School of Medicine, not Howard. And he's since been convicted of other crimes. Sad case.

  20. The other day, in the context of an argument about law school budgets, I heard the head of an admissions committee say with perfect complacency that there really wasn't much to worry about, because after all, what were these kids going to do, become investment bankers? This remark elicited an equally complacent chuckle from many of his colleagues.

    At that moment I had, perhaps for the first time in my life, a visceral sense of exactly why revolutions tend to be so violent. Not, of course, that I believe the lost generation is likely to head for the barricades any time soon. But if something cannot go on forever . . .

  21. It really is heartening that the word about the law school scam is getting out, and people are deciding to stay away from law school in droves. Nando--you and the other scam bloggers are doing a real public service. God only knows how many people you have helped save from a miserable fate.

    1. I wonder if someone typed up a single piece of paper clearly outlining the law school scam, made multiple copies, and went to the local book store and slipped them into the LSATS books as a warning.....if that would be considered in any way a criminal offense? Maybe they would charge you with vandalism. You never know. But would save a lot of souls.

  22. Has Lawprof ever made one comment here on TTR?

    Just curious.


    Let’s take a look at the LSN profile on this third tier commode. The numbers below come from that report.

    Here are the LSAT scores for the Class of 2010:

    75th percentile: 156
    Median: 154
    25th percentile: 152

    Those are not world-class figures. You can see why this law school is ranked as the 119th best diploma mill in the nation, by US “News” & World Report. I don’t see how this in$TTTiTTTuTTTion of “higher learning” qualifies as “the black Harvard.”

    Undergrad grade point average - for the class above:

    75th percentile: 3.5
    Median: 3.2
    25th percentile: 3.0

    Yes, those are fantastic entering scores, as well. Keep in mind that many law students majored in garbage academic disciplines during undergrad. These numbers certainly include those who earned Bachelor’s degrees in the following tripe: American History, Political “Science,” Art, Philosophy, Gender Studies, etc.

    Lastly, let’s see how well the Class of 2010 did on the bar exam:

    Primary jurisdiction: Maryland
    Pass percentage, for first-time applicants: 64%
    State average: 78 percent
    Difference: -14%

    This school is a real academic powerhouse, huh?!?! Its main function appears to be providing faculty with easy-ass, overcompensated jobs. Then again, that is the primary purpose of every ABA-accredited dung heap.

    @4:11 pm,

    I am not sure if Paul Campos has ever commented on this blog. If he has done so, then I do not remember. He occasionally provides a hyperlink to this site, via his entries. I know that Brian Tamanaha has posted remarks on Third Tier Reality, under his own name.


    Thank you for the support. I have received dozens of emails from people who have told me that I have helped them avoid the law school trap, due to my work. Those messages further motivate me to keep sandblasting these toilets. Plus, I thoroughly enjoy watching the law school cockroaches run for cover, now that we have shed light on the bastards.

  24. It's expensive to go here, but what's sad is it's actually cheap compared to most private schools.

  25. Good day boys and girls! Do you dream of one day becoming a powerful judge? Well, all you need to do is attend the Seton Hall Law School.* That's right, a JD diploma from this toilet will give you the opportunity to shine and ascend to a New Jersey Superior Court Judgeship position. See for yourself:

    * Caveat: It helps that your dad was the former Chief Justice of the NJ Supreme Court and former New Jersey Attorney General. How long before Seton Hall Law School features Judicial Princess Zazalli on its brochures so that lemmings can drool?

  26. I bet there are many, many more people who avoided law school because of TTR. When you google many of these dumps, Nando's profile is like the 2nd or 3rd result. Look one up, it's hilarious. Under Generic Law School's crappy intro claiming they are a world class legal institution you see "Greasy 4th tier shitstain" lol.

    1. I am one of those. I opted to apply for a PhD. And i got into a few programs. While the employment rate isnt great, I would rather spend 5 yrs studying something i love (politics) for free and end up working for a gov./non profit...rather than 165K at Howard (Yes I am a AA) for the slim chance of getting Big Law..

      But hey Watchell and Cravath come there every year to recruit the Valedictorians..not even GULC can brag about that.

  27. I also want to add, I wish I had a site like this to read when I was a dumbass 0L. I finished undergrad from 2006 to 2008, there was NOTHING about law school being a toilet. Anything that was anti-law school was in some dusty corner of the internet I never saw.

    All the available literature described $3,000 per week associates going to Yankees games, operas, and boat rides. How many people could have been saved from law school if scamblogs existed in 2007? or 2005?

    1. You don't need to be a law associate to attend the opera or yankee games.


  29. As a student at this dung heap, you will have a chance to participate in the Fair Housing Clinic:

    "In 2004 the Law School was awarded a grant by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to establish a comprehensive clinical education program in Fair Housing. The program opened in Fall semester 2005 with a pilot, developmental phase during which a small group of students helped to develop the clinical program, including procedures, policies, training materials and outreach programs, as well as learn the basics of housing discrimination law, practice and procedure. Students may also work on a limited number of fair housing cases as testers, administrative advocates, researchers or advisers. Students seeking acceptance must have taken a seminar in Housing Discrimination or be concurrently registered in an approved Housing Discrimination, civil rights or externship course."

    Since graduates of this commode end up incurring more than $100K in additional, NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a TTT law degree, clinic students will get a chance to glimpse intp their future. What a great learning experience, huh?!?!

    "The Criminal Justice Clinic (CJC) is a one-year clinical course for which a student receives twelve (12) credits. Because the course is year-long, a student receives no credit if he/she does not complete the second semester of the course."

    Based on the complete description, this appears to be a hands on clinical program. I remember representing low-income, mental midgets in misdemeanor cases, as part of the criminal defense clinic at Third Tier Drake. Overall, it was a good experience. However, the skills don't matter, if you fail to land an attorney job upon graduation. Arguing motions in court does not help you much, in your future position as an insurance adjuster or grade school teacher.

    ABA-accredited diploma mills act as if they are responding to the needs of their students. In the final analysis, there simply are not enough attorney jobs for each graduating class. The schools have essentially adopted a band aid approach to a SERIOUS problem.

    Paul Campos stated this clearly, in his February 17, 2012 entry “The message.” Check out this excerpt:

    “Contrary to the disturbing things you may have read in the New York Times, legal education is actually changing in all sorts of wonderful ways, which are making our students far more practice-ready upon graduation.

    There aren't enough jobs.

    Contrary to the disturbing things etc., legal scholarship has entered a golden age, and is producing all sorts of wonderful insights regarding how to make The Best Legal System in the World even better.

    There aren't enough jobs.”

  30. Inquiring minds wanna know more about these $2K laptops. What gives? Why do you need a $2K computer to take notes in class and get updates online?

    Student loan counselors used to caution students about the "$50 pizza" e.g.if you pay for a $12 pizza with student loan money, it will cost $50 with interest. (I think this was back in the 90's when I was in school.) I guess we could call this an $8K laptop.

  31. the $2k for a lap top is optional. they give you $2k, say its for a laptop, but you can spend it how you like. Its great for an incoming freshman who needs to enter student mode. for starters the $55k already includes books, transpo, and all that other great BS so scratch the $62,you made that up. simply the the cost of attendence, its on the website. next years budget is already posted and its around $56 total. moving on, why discurage everyone from attending such a great instution only because 21% will truly succeed. Allow that 21% to become all they can be. 3tier=lower rank, however still providing the opportunity, correct? If 100% did what we expected them to, there would be no such thing as a 3rd teir. Understand that people are simply investing. Dont be silly we know that we will see nearly $150k debt but its to srtive for that $150k/year job. So understand that this 21% is what we strive for. Its the investment that we make in hopes to earn that spot. The institution gives us that opportunity. HENCE, 3RD TIER!!!!

    -Howard law student

    1. Hello, Stupid Bitch/Howard law student.

      How can you defend such a $y$tem, moron?!?! The school is a third tier commode. By the way, the taxpayers are ultimately on the hook - if there is ever a student loan forgiveness program in place. Justify that, dumbass.

      Also, ABA-accredited trash pits do not list living expenses on a 12 month calendar year. They calculate rent and other costs, on a nine month basis, waterhead. Apparently, you need to stick to coloring books and Legos.

      According to the 2014 edition of US “News” & World Report, Howard Univer$iTTTy Sewer of Law is rated as the 126th “best” law school in the country. What a great accomplishment, right?!?!

      USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Howard Univer$iTTTy JD Class of 2012 who incurred debt for law school - as $123,068. In somewhat good news, “only” 91 percent of this class took on such vile debt. Remember that these figures do not include interest that accrues on the outstanding balance, while the student is enrolled in school.

      On average, the typical Howard JD from the Class of 2012 took on an additional $9,785 in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt than their 2011 counterparts. And the toilet sank another 7 spots in the US “News” rankings scheme.

      Evidently, YOU don’t care that – by your estimate – 79% of black students at Howard will be financially ruined. Your mother must be very proud of you, eunuch. Grow a pair of balls, a spine, and a backbone, mental midget.

  32. You nailed it!!! Thank you! I could not have said it better. You are a gift from God! Liz

  33. Glad I came across this blog. I've been wanting the real deal on HU for Law School as I'm debating currently where and where not to apply. I have had the "HBCU experience" before and its the same across the board, over payed executives and outrageous debt for students. No Thanks.

  34. I actually applied to Howard in the 2013 cycle when I had just one crummy LSAT score to play with--just testing the waters, if you will, as a non traditional age URM. I've since retested and am aiming for a t15 scholarship.

    But anyway, what should be noted about Howard is their INCREDIBLY scammy scholarship offers. I received a $30,000 scholarship award. Take a look at this award contract they want you to sign... it's unreal. Never seen anything like this. Refer to section 1...


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