Wednesday, July 24, 2013

Extra Moist Fecal Matter: the NALP Class of 2012 Employment Report Shows a Fifth Straight Annual Drop in Overall Job Placement Rate


NALP first published its latest edition of "Selected Findings" on June 20, 2013. I have been waiting for these bitches and hags to publish the employment summary report since that time. Evidently, the rats finally posted this info, in the last couple of days.

Summary:

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NationalSummaryChart2012.pdf

According to the NALP Class of 2012 National Summary Report, 84.7 percent of this massive cohort was employed within nine months of graduation. Of course, this figure includes non-law positions, attorney jobs, part-time and full-time work, plus long term and temporary posts. For $ome rea$on, the law school pigs prefer this broad definition.

Overall, there were 46,364 members of the JD Class of 2012 – competing for a total of 28,567 jobs labeled “bar passage required.” Keep in mind that not all of those positions were traditional attorney openings. Then again, only 45,434 graduates had their info sent to NALP. Using the entire class size, a mere 61.6% of all JDs ended up finding such legal work, i.e. 28,567/46,364. However, this figure jumps all the way up to 64.4 percent, when relying on those for whom employment status was known, i.e. 28,567/44,339.

Head to page two of this PDF, and then scroll down to the subheading Type of Law Firm Job. You will notice that a total of 16,312 members of this class reported working as private lawyers. Presumably, this figure includes desperate solos and recent grads who decided to hang a shingle with their classmates. This represents 36.8 percent of those who supplied their employment status, i.e. 16,312/44,339. Imagine if dental or medical school grads faced similar job prospects, after completing their professional schooling.

At the bottom of the second page, you will see a small chart entitled “Job Characteristics by Employer Type.” A total of 9.2% of all jobs reported were listed as short term, whereas 9.8 percent were described as part-time. Lastly, the next graph reflects the fact that 1,418 JDs, from this class, started their own practice. Plus, self-initiated contact and letters comprised the largest segment of Job Source.

Selected Findings:

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2012SelectedFindings.pdf

Take a look at the organization’s press release, which was misleadingly entitled “Law School Class of 2012 Finds More Jobs, Starting Salaries Rise – But Large Class Size Hurts Overall Employment Rate.” In particular, review this opening:

“The overall employment rate for new law school graduates fell to 84.7%. Even though the overall number of jobs obtained by this class was higher than the number of jobs obtained by the prior class, the Class of 2012 was also bigger. When coupled with fewer law-school funded positions, this resulted in the overall employment rate for the Class of 2012 falling almost a full percentage point from the 85.6% measured for the prior year. The overall rate has now fallen for five years in a row since 2008.” [Emphasis mine]

Apparently, many ABA-accredited dung heaps/diploma mills are no longer willing to spend money to hire recent, out of work grads to file paperwork – in order to artificially inflate their employment “placement” numbers. Perhaps, some of these commodes simply do not have the funds to do so.

Later on the first page, the piece continued:

“Despite signs of modest improvement, as evidenced by more law firm jobs as described below, there are still signs of structural weaknesses in the entry-level job market. For instance, of those graduates for whom employment status was known, only 64.4% obtained a job for which bar passage was required. This figure has fallen over 10 percentage points just since 2008 – and is the lowest percentage NALP has ever measured.” [Emphasis mine]

Notice that the hacks at NALP – not scambloggers – employed the phrase “structural weaknesses in the entry-level job market.” At some point, even the scammers and the leeches cannot deny reality.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings

Law Student Indebtedness Figures: US “News” & World Report furnished a list labeled “Which law school graduates have the most debt?” The page shows average indebtedness of 2012 graduates who incurred law school debt. If you are still planning on attending law school, ask yourself the following question: “Is it worth incurring an additional $135K-$160K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, in order to receive a TTTT law degree from Whittier College?” 

You should apply the same cost-benefit analysis with the school that has admitted you. At such soul-crushing levels of debt, you would need to land Biglaw – merely to have a chance at breaking even. Remember that these figures do not take undergraduate debt into account. They also do not include interest, which accrues while your ass is enrolled.

Conclusion: Are you still intent on pissing away your financial health and your future, for a dwindling chance to enter the GLUTTED U.S. lawyer job market, Lemming?!?! You are better off taking your chances in a casino. Hell, at least you can have gambling debts discharged in bankruptcy – which is NOT an option for student loans. You simply DO NOT NEED to incur a mountain of debt, in order for the “professors” and administrator pigs to live handsomely – for producing minimal “work.” If you truly want to throw away money, just pay me $5,000 to kick you square in the face. The pain will be temporary, and you will not have ruined your life in the process.

52 comments:

  1. 64.4% bar passage required would appear to include part time, temporary, school funded, and solo practice "jobs." There are 964 solo practitioners (about 2%) so subtracting those brings it down to 62%. From that 62%, in order to see how many people had real legal jobs, we have to subtract part time jobs, temporary gigs, school funded jobs, and "small firm" jobs that are just 2-3 classmates huddled together form warmth. It doesn't look like those numbers are available, but I'd bet the % of real legal jobs is well under 50%.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Use this calculator for nine month out employment figures:

      http://educatingtomorrowslawyers.du.edu/law-jobs/

      Click on "Choose Your Own Formula," Then check the following boxes: "bar passage required," "long term," "full-time," "exclude from numerator: school funded," and "exclude from numerator: solo." (Of course, that still includes plenty of recent grads who joined or started very small (nonsolo)firms and are not making a living).

      Result for the Class of 2012: 53.1%
      Result for the Class of 2011: 51.5%

      If you could exclude T13 grads from the calculation (3,000 or so grads the vast majority of whom get jobs), I believe the percentage for both years falls under 50%

      Delete
  2. When I was an 'attorney' with 10 years of shitlaw under my belt I applied for an in-house position paying 30K or so at a debt collection agency ( not a law firm). The sweating pig who interviewed me had obvious contempt for me and my street law credentials-lots of court trials, experience in a number of areas, ability to handle a high volume of work, etc. He was looking out the window while obviously not listening to my responses to his perfunctory questions. As I left the guy said that he had received over 200 resumes thus far for the position, and my last visual image of my 'interview' is the malicious gleam in his eye. This 'job' was posted in the printed weekly Bar Reports for my state on a Monday and later that week 200 desperate souls had applied. This was BEFORE the 2008 meltdown; the job was obvious drudgery and paid in the low '30's; and still a guy like me who obviously could have done the job and had a decade of street law experience still did not even get a rejection letter. So prospective 0L, do not go to law school unless you meet Nando's criteria or you enjoy non-sexual masochism.

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    1. You have to be a complete failure as a lawyer to be seeking a job with a collection agency. What could be more shitlaw than that? And why assume everybody should avoid law because you failed?

      Delete
    2. Hi Anonymous-7:34AM-shitbrain. Since you are incapable of drawing rational inferences from a set of facts, I will do the job for you. By the way, you can look up words like "incapable" and "inferences" in a dictionary. Idiot, the point is that there is not enough money in the aggregate ( that means 'total', shitheel) that clients are willing to pay to support at least half and likely closer to two thirds of licensed attorneys. IRS and other government data indicate that 1.4 million people were credentialed as lawyers in the last 40 years, yet only 800,000 or so of this cohort report making any kind of living practicing law. In my state there are are roughly 3 new JD's for every job opening-including the kind I wrote about. Was it a shitlaw job? Of course! That is why the fact that 200 or more applications came in pronto is so telling, and further underscores the IRS data I referenced above. "Everybody" should avoid law school ( with the exception being those who meet Nando's criteria) because, idiot, unless you win the law school grade lottery your first year you will be doomed to solo shitlaw practice making under 50k with terrible stress and aggravation or you will get a shit job like the one I wrote about. Have I made that crystal clear enough for you? Probably not but everyone reading this with an open and inquisitive critical mind will understand the points I am making.

      Delete
    3. Unlike most of the scam blogging participants, you have "ten years of experience in shit law". I don't know what that means . . since most lawyers practice in small firms doing divorces, criminal defense, personal injury and most experienced lawyers have learned enough after ten years to be able to make a decent living. So what was your problem you ended up looking for a job with a collection agency after, presumably, having enough experience to know how to actually practice law? Obviously you have not done so well in the past at law, right? So because you didn't make it, the law sucks for everybody? But it doesn't. It only sucked for you. As for the newbees with debt, and no job prospects, the entire economy sucks for young graduates in most fields. Not just law. The difference is the entitlement people expected with a law degree and the debt they took on to get that degree. But heck, even mediocre colleges are charging 45K tuition for just a B.A. or BS these days. Why do you think law school should be the exception?

      Delete
    4. ^What? Someone in Brooklyn actually has a tinier dick than you? How's it feel to lose that by a couple millimeters?

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/nick-gilronan-smallest-penis_n_3635388.html

      Delete
    5. 7:03PM: Most shitlaw lawyers do divorces, other 'family law' matters like child custody and child support matters, and criminal cases. Most shitlaw lawyers are not, in fact, shitty lawyers. Most know what they are doing-the ones that do not drop out quickly. Even the most egregious cheesy shitlawyers like the ones that advertise $500 divorces and drunk driving flat fee cases are more or less as capable as any other of the lawyers who handle these types of cases. The problem is that there is too little paying client demand for shitlaw work. The massive oversupply of lawyers has driven down fees, exacerbating the downward spiral. Potential clients can and do use legal zoom , etc and avoid hiring a shitlawyer. A small sliver of boutique-shitlaw clients will patronize a very small number of boutique-shitlaw firms and lawyers with a 'name'. The boutique-shitlaw clients are distinguishable only by the amount of money they can bring in fees. The boutique-'name' lawyers are no better or worse than all the other shitlawyers. So-experience, ability and talent in shitlaw will not create a client base and hence a living. There are so many lawyers and such insufficient paid demand for legal work-AND there exists no effective way to build some kind of 'public consciousness' of your abilities as a shitlawyer. The bottom line is that roughly half of the licensed attorneys in my state do not make a living practicing law. The reason is what I have stated above in several ways. Now are there some shitlawyers who make 50K or above ? Sure. But most of those are in the 'boutique' shitlaw firms most of which are family firms(typically the 'founder' started in the '70's, hired his kids and a few other lawyers, but never more than a handful over many years).

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    6. 7:03:And why did I after 10 years of shitlawyering try for such a horrible job? I was tired of doing a high volume of divorces for an aggregate of 40K or so a year. I wanted to receive a paycheck instead of advertising in print, trying a number of Internet 'marketing' schemes which were rip offs and scams, positive thinking, visualization of $25,000 retainers coming into my hand (this never materialized outside of my mind), taking the boutique-shitlaw lawyers out to lunch and asking them to divulge the secret to attracting large retainer cases( I never heard anything which wasn't along the lines of what I was already doing). The problem again stated somewhat differently is that there are way too many good shitlawyers out there. I know many whose experience is exactly as I have describe-in the rough percentages noted as well.

      Delete
  3. Wow, almost 85% of graduates found work! In my state, the unemployment rate is about 7%, which means that 93% of people without JDs are finding work. People with JDs are almost as employable as people without! They are only 8 percentage points behind. Great job, law schools!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At ITLSS, Campos dissected the stats for the class of '11 and noted that the 15% completely unemployed rate for that group was twice the unemployment rate for young adults as a whole. So getting a law degree doubles the risk of being completely unemployed 9 months later.

      Delete
  4. Is this the only scam blogger site left? I haven't followed for some time and it looks like everyone else quit the game.

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  5. 65% in jobs requiring Bar passage.

    Since the salary distribution in law is bimodal, that means that the vast majority of those jobs will be low-pay, likely less than or if someone is fortunate close to what they could have gotten with only a college degree.

    Frankly, I doubt these "entry-level" jobs pay that much. Employers will use any escuse, including noobish / newness and the experience canard to justify paying shit wages.

    The vast majority of law grads are starting out making shit - assuming they can find work. Otherwise, IBR would not exist.

    A better indicator of the legal employment market is simply looking at job postings. Then you see the Real World of legal hiring. You are not going to get paid a mint. Any Craigslist ad for a legal job will tell a / the tale.

    Good luck paying back that buck twenty-five price tag in loans (plus any undergrad..)

    You'll be living like a roach for years, likely decades. And yes, it's your own fault. All you had to do was ignore the propaganda designed to get you on the Fed. Student Loan Hook, listen to the "naysayers" like Nando and others, and make the right decision.

    Choose wrong. Pay long.

    ReplyDelete
  6. What is the percentage in real legal jobs, ie non-school funded, long-term, full-time, bar passage required, actually practicing law? It strikes me that I just wrote a very long sentence, just to untangle the numerous tricks that law schools have learned to play.

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    Replies
    1. It's difficult to tease everything out but I imagine the "real" employment rate for law school graduates is about 40%.

      Delete
  7. Interesting that only 38.2% of those in bar passage required jobs reported a salary. Is that a good proxy for the percentage employed in real legal jobs? Presumably even that number would include some part-time gigs or school-funded positions.

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    1. 4:23PM, your comment is dead on the money. I think we can confidently assume that there is a further 5-10 percent of the 38.2 percent reporting a salary who are, as you intuit, not in real full time long term positions-ie, what people would think of as 'normal jobs'. This would indicate an actual employment rate for new JD's of roughly a third with gainful ACTUAL employment. In my area, bunches of the desperate new JD's put up Internet sites that creepily all resemble each other and the same bullshit phrases reappear :"reasonable fees", "will fight for you"; "results driven", etc. These desperadoes all have their pictures displayed and they look like -well, YOUNG twentysomethings. Nothing against that, but from my vantage point (46 years old, 21 years as a street lawyer) I can not fathom how these youngsters will lure the tiny sliver of boutique-shitlaw-clients (ie, upper upper middle class and wealthy contested divorces, serious criminal matters where the client is white collar or otherwise has money to pay $2500 for a lower degree felony,etc) which will pay them enough to earn better than assembly line-everyday-shitlaw 'practice'. The fact is these minor leaguers will never get the boutique clients because they go to the small number of boutique firms/solos. I know this from daily courthouse work over many years during the course of which I saw the sad spectacle of shitlaw lawyers play out.

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  8. "Are you still intent on pissing away your financial health and your future, for a dwindling chance to enter the GLUTTED U.S. lawyer job market, Lemming?!?!"

    There are a lot of glutted job markets beyond the law: basic sciences, computer science, office monkey, certain manual trades, etc. Truth is, there are too many trained people going after too few jobs, so we have ridiculous mismatches in skills attained and positions held. The system will have to be made rational if the country wants to survive....the law is not the biggest problem, but we have to close down most law schools permanently, wait 15 years to open 5 and limit enrollment to 5 students per school.

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    1. "....but we have to close down most law schools permanently...."

      Scratch "most", replace with "all."

      Delete
    2. Strelnikov, I have rarely heard or read the 'macro' picture described more succinctly and accurately :"Truth is, there are too many trained people going after too few jobs, so we have ridiculous mismatches in skills attained and positions held". That's about it in a nutshell.

      Delete
  9. I wonder how long it will take the resident psycho to start in on Koch or myself. Nando don't take what he writes down; I want to see his felonious cocksuckery for myself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He hasn't posted yet. You probably hurt his feelings.

      Delete
    2. Only fair seeing as how he only comes here to heckle.

      Delete
    3. I wonder if he is sick or was in a car accident? He used to be right on top of us and within a matter of minutes.

      Maybe he is attending a gold buyer's convention and is to busy to comment?

      Delete
  10. 64.4 percent is a bullshit figure. A lot of these grads didn't even report their (un)employment status to their school. So the real number is worse.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Even the British tabloids are reporting on the abysmal state of the American legal job market:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2377391/Brian-Zulberti-Law-graduate-emails-shirtless-photo-plea-attorney-job.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The kid went to Villanova Law. Big surprise. They had a dean resign allegedly because he was seeing prostitutes. Oh yeah and the school falsified data about 1L students and their lsat and gpa scores under his leadership.

      Google Mark Sargent Villanova.

      Delete
  12. I prefer to conduct a thorough, ass-kicking analysis. For that reason, let’s head back to the NALP Class of 2012 National Summary Report.

    http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NationalSummaryChart2012.pdf

    On page two of this file, head to the subheading Size of Firm. A total of 19,042 graduates from the JD Class of 2012 were employed in private law firms. In the next subsection, you will notice that only 16,312 reported working as attorneys. Another 1,663 respondents were in law clerk positions. Hence, this former figure above is also skewed – since not all of these grads are working as lawyers.

    Desperate solos accounted for 964 positions; those in firms of 2-10 lawyers amounted to 8,193 jobs; a total of 1,888 reported working in offices with 11-25 attorneys; and 1,086 were employed in firm of 26-50 legal practitioners. Hell, solos and those in firms of 2-10 lawyers total 48.1 percent of those employed in private law offices.

    In contrast, only 1,001 grads from this cohort ended up working in firms of 251-500 lawyers. That figure represents 5.3% of those who responded that they were employed in private law firms. Furthermore, a total of 3,636 JDs were hired by firms with more than 500 attorneys, or 19.1 percent of graduates in this subcategory.

    Using these NALP numbers, this means that 10.45% of graduates from the Class of 2012 – for whom employment status was known – were hired by private law firms of 251 or more lawyers, i.e. 4,637/44,339. What great and incredible job prospects, huh?!?!

    More alarmingly, this figure represents 10.001 percent of ALL grads from this enormous cohort, i.e. 4,637/46,364. This is especially troubling, when you realize that the typical law grad is expected to incur $100K-$130K in additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. The fact remains that law school is a foolish financial decision for MOST students. For many, it is a disastrous move. Simply put, there is no logical, economically sound reason to take on such crazy odds, for a dwindling chance to practice law.

    ReplyDelete
  13. dybbuk123--thanks for the link to that calculator. Just for shits and giggles I will have to plug in the law schools from my state and see what comes up.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Check out this very recent article from the Sacramento Bee. Lays it all out re: the state of the legal market in California.

    "One in six recent California law school grads can't find jobs."

    http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/19/5432793/one-in-six-recent-california-law.html#storylink=cpy

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  15. More like 1 in 2 California law school grads can't find lawyer jobs. If the ABA could only count lawyer jobs for law grads, it would be ugly.

    ReplyDelete
  16. If you read the NALP website you will see more rhetoric and bullshit than any of Nando's toilets. It is similar to reading the corporate protocols and policies of Enron's charter before its collapse. Especially go to the BEST PRACTICES section of NALP and ask yourself do the law schools even attempt to comply with these protocols?

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  17. So few biglaw jobs out there. And the only fucking way to pay back $180K in loans is to get biglaw. It doesn;t matter how much you want to do 'social justice' or 'help even the playing field.' Or if you're 'passionate about the law.' (If you ask me, you should be passionate about pussy and little else in this world.) What a shit profession.

    ReplyDelete
  18. After IBR comes the Tax Bomb, and you will have 20 or so years to contemplate that if you are on IBR:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/your-money/for-student-borrowers-a-tax-time-bomb.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

    ReplyDelete
  19. http://www.nalp.org/0813_selectedfindings_bulletin_article

    Check out the NALP Bulletin for August 2013, labeled "Class of 2012 Employment and Salary Findings Show First Positive Signs Since 2008." This was authored by Ass-Clown James G. Leipold and Judith N. Collins. Look at the revealing portion below:

    "Just Over Half of Employed Grads Found Jobs in Private Practice

    Additional analyses of the jobs data for the Class of 2012 reveal that just over half (50.7%) of employed graduates obtained a job in private practice, up from 49.5% for the Class of 2011 and close to the 50.9% figure recorded for the Class of 2010. However, that figure for the Class of 2010 marked a full 5 percentage point decline from 2009. For most of the 39 years for which NALP has collected employment information, the percentage of jobs in law firms has been in the 55-58% range and has been below 50% only once before 2011; that was in 1975. The combination of a larger number of jobs overall and a higher percentage of jobs in law firms means that the number of law firm jobs is up by almost 8%, and is the largest number since 2009.

    Additionally, jobs in the largest firms, those with more than 500 lawyers, have rebounded substantially from their low point in 2011, and accounted for 19.1% of jobs taken in law firms, compared with only 16.2% in 2011. The number of jobs taken in these firms — over 3,600 — is up by 27% over 2011 levels, representing a recovery almost to 2010 levels but to nowhere near the 2009 figure of more than 5,100 jobs. At the other end of the spectrum, jobs in the smallest firms of 2-10 lawyers, while remaining almost flat as a percentage of jobs, grew in raw numbers to almost 8,200, from less than 7,600 in 2011."

    First, slightly more than half of EMPLOYED graduates working in private law firms is nothing to celebrate. As I have shown in the main entry and my earlier comment, this figure is misleading. Again, only 16,312 grads from the Class of 2012 reported landing attorney positions – which amounted to a mere 36.8% of those for whom employment status was known. Hell, a total of 1,418 JDs from this cohort started their own practice. That number equates to 8.7 percent of all private practice jobs, for this group.

    Next, using the entire cohort size is a better metric for determining the job outlook for recent JDs. In that case, survey respondents working as private lawyers accounted for 35.18% of the Class of 2012. That is an embarrassment! As we all know, those 2,025 graduates who did not bother reporting their employment status would have done so if they had achieved a positive outcome. Law grads typically measure their level of success or self-esteem based on their salary. When they are doing well, they want others to know. Conversely, if their “investment” does not pay off, they usually keep their mouths shut – because they don’t want to been seen as a failure.

    Third, by NALP’s own admission, private law firm employment has historically been weak. Leipold and Collins noted the following: “For most of the 39 years for which NALP has collected employment information, the percentage of jobs in law firms has been in the 55-58% range.”

    Lastly, Biglaw hiring has always accounted for a small percentage of those working in private law firms. The NALP authors mention that there were 5,100 such openings in 2009. That figure is much lower, when measured with overall class size. In sum, the financial costs of attaining a law degree from the VAST MAJORITY of U.S. law schools simply do not make any sense. Furthermore, the dolts also bring attention to the fact that hiring in firms of 2-10 attorneys is increasing in raw numbers!

    Also, thank you for providing a link to that employment calculator, dybbuk. You have also written some outstanding articles on OTLSS, showing more realistic job placement figures for recent grads of ABA-accredited dung heaps and diploma mills. Keep up the solid work.

    ReplyDelete
  20. http://www.nalp.org/0813_selectedfindings_bulletin_article

    Check out the NALP Bulletin for August 2013, labeled "Class of 2012 Employment and Salary Findings Show First Positive Signs Since 2008." This was authored by Ass-Clown James G. Leipold and Judith N. Collins. Look at the revealing portion below:

    "Just Over Half of Employed Grads Found Jobs in Private Practice

    Additional analyses of the jobs data for the Class of 2012 reveal that just over half (50.7%) of employed graduates obtained a job in private practice, up from 49.5% for the Class of 2011 and close to the 50.9% figure recorded for the Class of 2010. However, that figure for the Class of 2010 marked a full 5 percentage point decline from 2009. For most of the 39 years for which NALP has collected employment information, the percentage of jobs in law firms has been in the 55-58% range and has been below 50% only once before 2011; that was in 1975. The combination of a larger number of jobs overall and a higher percentage of jobs in law firms means that the number of law firm jobs is up by almost 8%, and is the largest number since 2009.

    Additionally, jobs in the largest firms, those with more than 500 lawyers, have rebounded substantially from their low point in 2011, and accounted for 19.1% of jobs taken in law firms, compared with only 16.2% in 2011. The number of jobs taken in these firms — over 3,600 — is up by 27% over 2011 levels, representing a recovery almost to 2010 levels but to nowhere near the 2009 figure of more than 5,100 jobs. At the other end of the spectrum, jobs in the smallest firms of 2-10 lawyers, while remaining almost flat as a percentage of jobs, grew in raw numbers to almost 8,200, from less than 7,600 in 2011."

    First, slightly more than half of EMPLOYED graduates working in private law firms is nothing to celebrate. As I have shown in the main entry and my earlier comment, this figure is misleading. Again, only 16,312 grads from the Class of 2012 reported landing attorney positions – which amounted to a mere 36.8% of those for whom employment status was known. Hell, a total of 1,418 JDs from this cohort started their own practice. That number equates to 8.7 percent of all private practice jobs, for this group.

    Next, using the entire cohort size is a better metric for determining the job outlook for recent JDs. In that case, survey respondents working as private lawyers accounted for 35.18% of the Class of 2012. That is an embarrassment! As we all know, those 2,025 graduates who did not bother reporting their employment status would have done so if they had achieved a positive outcome. Law grads typically measure their level of success or self-esteem based on their salary. When they are doing well, they want others to know. Conversely, if their “investment” does not pay off, they usually keep their mouths shut – because they don’t want to been seen as a failure.

    Third, by NALP’s own admission, private law firm employment has historically been weak. Leipold and Collins noted the following: “For most of the 39 years for which NALP has collected employment information, the percentage of jobs in law firms has been in the 55-58% range.”

    Lastly, Biglaw hiring has always accounted for a small percentage of those working in private law firms. The NALP authors mention that there were 5,100 such openings in 2009. That figure is much lower, when measured against overall class size. In sum, the financial costs of attaining a law degree from the VAST MAJORITY of U.S. law schools simply do not make any sense. Furthermore, the dolts also bring attention to the fact that hiring in firms of 2-10 attorneys is increasing in raw numbers!

    Also, thank you for providing a link to that employment calculator, dybbuk. You have also written some outstanding articles on OTLSS, showing more realistic job placement figures for recent grads of ABA-accredited dung heaps and diploma mills. Keep up the good work.

    ReplyDelete
  21. One thing everybody overlooks about becoming an unemployed law graduate is if you take the bar exam and pass and then your law license goes into inactive status, you still have to deal with the judiciary disciplinary committee if you get into any perceived trouble or encounter problems. You get a drunk driving on New Years Eve or even something as minor as a one day drivers license suspension at the motor vehicle department for being just a day late for handing in your license plate after canceling insurance then the bar committee will send you a letter that they want to discuss the matter with you in person. Non attorneys do not have this extra layer of inconvenience and just pay the fine and go there merry ways.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. *go their merry way

      Delete
    2. The only issue I have with Nandos blog is his toilet photos do not promote diversity like the law schools claim their noble pursuit of diversity. Nando should have photos of handicapped accessible toilets and show a photo of a unisex sign in front of the toilet. If you read the NALP material they allege this is what law schools strive for-diversity. Sort of like a Porta Potty at a public park accessible to everyone.

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  22. Right on. Massive overly regulated 'profession' and keeping the license safe now entitles me to try to fight several thousand other toilet law 'practitioners' for the privilege of doing uncontested divorces for $300 from start to finish,

    ReplyDelete
  23. Two million pageviews! Holy Crap!

    Anyway, here is an interesting cartoon that seems like it was made for kids getting out of kindergarten:

    http://studentdebtanonymous.blogspot.com/2013/07/have-look-at-this-cartoon.html

    ReplyDelete
  24. NALP’s front page featured a link to the following article, in a text box labeled “Industry Headlines.” Since the URL was ridiculously long, I went with a different source for the same story.

    http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202611630378

    Steven J. Harper’s piece entitled “How—and Why—the Lawyer Bubble Keeps Growing” appeared in the Am Law Daily, on July 19, 2013. He is an adjunct “professor” at Northwestern University School of Law. This institution is currently ranked 12th best overall, by US “News” & World Report. Check out his opening remarks:

    “In June the legal services sector lost more than 3,000 jobs, according to the latest Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Since June 2012, the latest BLS data shows, the industry has seen a net gain of only 1,000 jobs. In the last two months alone, 6,000 positions disappeared.

    No Market Solutions Here

    In a properly functioning market, reduced demand would prompt suppliers to cut output in search of equilibrium. But the legal profession is anything but a functioning market. In fact, it consists of several distinct and dysfunctional markets.

    For example, there’s plenty of unmet demand for lawyers on the part of people who can’t afford them, and reduced federal funding for the Legal Services Corporation has only exacerbated that problem. So has the rising cost of law school tuition and the resulting explosion of student debt. Over the past 25 years, law school tuition increases have far outpaced the rising cost of other forms of higher education.

    In another segment of the market, demand for corporate legal work has remained flat for years. But law school business models generally have focused on filling classrooms, regardless of whether students will ever be able to get the high-paying jobs they need to repay their six-figure educational loans. Because most tuition revenue comes from federally guaranteed loans that survive bankruptcy, schools have no financial incentive to restrict enrollments—that is, until they run out of applicants.”

    As many scambloggers and their readers have noted, the law school pigs have no economic imperative to limit their enrollment. In fact, they have a huge financial incentive to do and say whatever it takes to get asses in seats and fill their classes.

    Later on, Harper continued:

    “About Those Declining Applications

    A recent Wall Street Journal article about the “plunge” in law school enrollments noted that “applications for the entering class of 2013 were down 36 percent compared with the same point in 2010.” But a more relevant statistic included in the same story is more jarring: “Last year, law school first-year enrollments fell 8.5 percent nationwide.”

    Here’s another way to look at it: In the fall of 2004, law schools admitted 57 percent of those who applied. In the fall of 2012, almost 75 percent of all law school applicants were admitted.”

    Hell, broken down prostitutes are more selective in choosing their clientele. Could you imagine if accredited U.S. medical, dental or veterinary schools admitted anywhere near this percentage of applicants?!?!

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    Replies
    1. The Wall Street Journal the other day had an article how college enrollments plunged and used Loyola University New Orleans for an example. Their enrollment plunged 25% and they now have a $9.5 million budget shortfall. Other colleges were used for examples. High school students figured out colleges are scams and yet the potential UGC debt is far less than law school debt. Seems like these high school students have more brains than law school lemmings

      Delete
    2. Sure, sure. I'm sure they will have very good employment prospects with high school diplomas. The average income of a high school graduate is about $19,000. The lifetime difference in income between high school and college graduates is far more than the debt load required to get a college education even for those who have to borrow everything.

      Delete
  25. The $5000 for a kick to the face is a blessing compared to law school. Bruises go away after several weeks. The failure of a JD lasts forever.

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  26. Prediction: by next year's admission season, many of the TTT law schools will be at, or very near, 100% acceptance rates. If you can fog a mirror, you too can go to law school(so long as you bring your Federally insured loans with you). And the schools don't mean to be so selective: who needs a pulse? World War Z, part 2, will focus on shipping all the zombies to different law schools....

    ReplyDelete
  27. Every blog should have its very own village idiot. Where is this village idiot Christopher Knorps, Esq?

    Knorps has moved to California and should start his very own solo practice any day now. He is going to cater himself as a personal injury attorney for the gay community. Being a fag is a hazardous occupation. There is always plenty of opportunity to injure someone by fucking him hard in the ass. Or take a situation when one fag sucks another off and accidentally bites the dick he working on. The second fag now has a life changing personal injury. Knorps will be coming handy for such files being able to draw on his own substantial experience. Plenty of this kind of business in Cali.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Let me make it more clear from first hand experience and knowledge. Take away the jobs obtained by kids whose parent owned a law firm or business where they had a job waiting, graduates of T-14 law schools, hot chicks who get jobs no matter their qualifications, and graduates have about a 30% chance of obtaining a legal job where a law degree is required. Unless you want to start your own firm your odds of a job are not even an equal bet. If you are a white male, your odds are even lower.

    To make the investment of school worthwhile, 90% of graduates will need to work for themselves at some point and self employment makes tough odds already tougher. The bottom line is law school puts you in a negative financial position which requires you to double down and invest in yourself again where timing is key and failure likely if you want to see the true wealth that justifies the time and risk.

    While risk to get rich exists in all parts of society, law has been so dumbed down and legislation is being created by those from connected families who want to preserve their status, law is a bad bet.

    Think twice before you leap in to this shitty profession.

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  29. Interesting interview w/Campos in today's Denver Post:

    http://www.denverpost.com/carroll/ci_23733599/carroll-many-law-school-degrees-worse-than-worthless

    ReplyDelete
  30. And for all you top law school grads who think you're insulated from this because of Biglaw and pedigree, think again: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113941/big-law-firms-trouble-when-money-dries#

    You'll get your stint in Biglaw to be worked to death and then canned after 3 years, then you'll try to become a law school pig. But that trough is drying up as well.

    ReplyDelete

 
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