Tuesday, March 18, 2014

First Tier Road Apple: University of North Carolina School of Law


Tuition: North Carolina residents attending this public toilet on a full-time basis will be charged $22,215 in tuition and fees - for the 2013-2014 school year.  Full-time, out-of-state students will be ass-raped at the rate of $38,846, for the current academic year.  It’s great to see that these “educators” are looking out for their students’ best interests, right?!?!

Total Cost of Attendance: According to this same document, other costs will amount to an additional $22,768.  As such, the total estimated COA for in-state residents is listed as $44,983 - whereas non-residents will face a budget of $61,614.  Again, this is for one damn year!  Keep in mind that the bitches and hags base their estimates on a nine month calendar - in order to present a lower price tag.

Since actual law students will require living expenses over the full year, we will pro-rate the following items: room and board; travel; and miscellaneous costs.  Books/supplies and insurance will remain unchanged.  After making these adjustments, we reach the following, more accurate total figures for the current year: $51,671 for full-time, in-state residents and $68,302 for out-of-state suckers enrolled full-time.  Who wouldn’t jump at this tremendous deal, huh?!?!


Ranking: Vagina Bob Morse of US “News” & World Report rates the University of North Carolina Sewer of Law as the 31st greatest, most phenomenal, and amazing law school in the entire nation.  Hell, it only shares this distinction with four other ABA-accredited, diploma mills, i.e. Arizona State, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Wake Forest.


Published Employment Placement Statistics: There were a total of 248 members of the UNC $chool of Law Class of 2013.  Of that amount, 206 found employment within nine months of graduation.  Eight people did not bother to report their status to the garbage heap.  Five grads were pursuing another graduate degree, while 23 were unemployed and seeking and eight more were not searching for jobs.

This means that a mere 85% of this cohort was employed within the nine month mark, i.e. 204/240.  Remember that this number includes those working in non-law positions, as well as those employed in part-time or temporary jobs.  If you earned a law degree from this dung pit - and are working at PetSmart or selling insurance policies - then you are considered “employed” for the purpose of this summary.

Furthermore, the pigs hired nine of their own graduates from this class.  Doing so, the rodents increased their placement rate by 3.75 percent.  Then again, the swine may have done so because they care so much about their former students.  Also note that of the 106 grads who found law firm employment, only 26 were hired by offices of more than 500 attorneys.  In sum, your chance of landing such a position - at the 31st best law school in the country - is roughly 10.5%, i.e. 26/248.


Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Univer$ity of North Carolina $chool of Law Class of 2013 who incurred debt for law school - as $92,726. In fact, 81 percent of this commode’s 2013 class took on such toxic debt. Remember that this figure does not include undergraduate debt – and it also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.


Journal Opportunities: As a law student at UNC, you will have a shot at writing onto the “world-renowned” North Carolina Journal of Law & Technology.  From the commode’s description:


The North Carolina Journal of Law & Technology (“NC JOLT”) was founded in 1999 at the University of North Carolina School of Law. Our mission is to provide legal scholarship focusing on the many intersections between law and technology. We define technology very broadly, covering issues in intellectual property law, cyberspace law, environmental law, criminal law, health law, privacy law, and any other subject area where the sciences and law converge.

Now in its fifteenth volume, NC JOLT has gained national recognition as one of the top intellectual property journals in the country, according to Patently-O. As a student-run journal, we take pride in producing influential legal scholarship. NC JOLT publishes one print and one online edition at the end of each academic semester. Both editions feature full-length professional articles submitted to the journal, as well as student-written comments and recent developments prepared by our staff.”

Legal employers and beautiful women will climb all over you, if you mention that you are a student editor of this publicaTTTion!  [Disclaimer: nothing of the sort will happen, simpleton.]

Conclusion: In the final analysis, the University of North Carolina Sewer of Law is a grossly overpriced, rancid pile of horse droppings.  Don’t forget that nearly one-fifth of the last graduating class did not take out a single dime in student loans for this academic credential.  If you are not from a wealthy family, then you are at a severe disadvantage with these kids.  You will essentially be required to incur an additional $120K-$140K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt - and compete against these young men and women for the available good jobs.  Good luck with that task, dumbass.  


  1. Imagine the lawyer job prospects for those in TTTville.

  2. Nando, when you lay out the employment numbers, you should stress the percentage of graduates who find full-time long term positions requiring bar admission, and put that figure in BOLD.

    You do mention that the larger statistic includes part-time work, but we really have to hammer home how few people get LAWYER jobs after incurring huge amounts of nondischargeable debt.

  3. UNC charges more than a lot of private schools. And the outcomes are not that great (especially for a top tier school). Shame on these profs.

    1. Yes the actual legal employment nine months out--full time, long term, bar required, minus solos and school funded "jobs" -- for class of 2012 was 66 percent. Not great for an expensive first tier school.

  4. OLSS claims that their namesake, Campos, is very active elsewhere, but what is very strange is that OLSS never posts any links to any of the other recent writing activities of Campos where Campos is supposed to be "elsewhere"

    Often in life, the omissions or natural things that are not seen but ought to be seen in a natural course of events are the most revealing.

    And why does Campos recommend TTR to all the candid world, but hasn't ever made a single comment on TTR?

    And Tamanaha used to comment on Demo's Outside Lies Magic blog.

    As Big Daddy from the T. Williams play might have said:

    "I smell mendacity"

    Oh but I forgot. Campos and Tamanaha are "Heroes" on the student loan dime.

    1. And I smell Paint Roach.

      Shut the hell up you fool.

      At least those mentioned have intelligence, can properly express themselves. And have jobs.

      Unlike you.

    2. @Status Monkey:

      How did your 5K donation to the Virgil Goode Presidential election go?

      You wrote about it on the Debbie Schlussel blog.

      Was it tax deductible?

      You are a racist monster and have no business being a lawyer and if ever found out ought to be disbarred.

  5. The Ramen Noodles Company seems to have a major role in facilitating the repayment of student loan debt in America today.

    The Ramen Noodles Company has a strange and unintentional connection between poverty and the road to wealth and health, or at least as the shills of the industry responsible for student loan debt like to characterize it all sometimes:

    As in: I reluctantly ate Ramen noodles and bypassed the normal grocery bill for a normal human being and thereby was able to save money so as to pay off my student loan debt.

    So Ramen Noodles are undoubtedly a symbol of a threshold of some sort that is on the razor's edge between the "educated" and the "ignorant" in the society of the current day.

    A meal that is to resorted by the educated to pay off their debts if possible, even though the food pantries and church dinners and soup kitchens for the poor offer better and more nutritious food.

    All to pay off student loan debt.

    Ladies and Gentlemen of the Congress: I give you Ramen Noodles :)

  6. Look at the first time bar passage rates in North Carolina which have been dropping. A drop of almost 9% from 90.07 in 2011 to 81.29 last year. Permission to come aboard this sinking ship.

  7. Did Mick Jagger, the incredibly rich baby boomer icon, wack his girlfriend?

  8. Mick Jagger is a rich Baby Boomer pig and disgusting creep with incredible wealth and political influence and power and his music sucks and is so outdated and only for idiots with alzheimers, such as the Liberal Commie Law Professors that are sucking the US Treasury dry to this day.

    Mick Jagger can be said to be responsible for a lot of the tax and spend Liberalism, including student lending with no way out for life, that exists today.

    1. Right, that's why Mick Jagger has been so popular over the last fifty years. Because his music "sucks". On a more serious note, I get how angry many of you are given your debt and unemployability, and you have the right to be angry. But don't you think you would be better served directing your anger to those who deserve it rather than "the boomers"? The boomers are just like every other generation. Trying to do the best they can for their families and their kids . . . that means you. Instead, your anger should be directed not at the successful, like Jager, but the thieves . . . like Wallstreet, the Banking Cartel, the higher education cartel, and the lobbyists and bought legislatures who have given the country to these Cartels. They are the ones who have caused all of these problems. Not self made, successful people like Mick or many other successful businessmen.

    2. The boomers and their music are far left wing and communist and they brought back legalized usury for the first time in American History.

      As Rush Limbaugh said once: The liberals want to enslave people.

      No better way than by student loan debt with no way out for life.

      Mick Jagger is the hero of the Liberal counterculture and one of their idols.

      Funny how the Counterculture shattered all of the idols of America, and now they can't take iconoclasm against their shitty generation.

      Wasn't it that asshole guitar player for the Who that argued about money before going on the Woodstock stage?

      The boomers suck and are all shit and greed and deeply in bed with the banks, and are not mutually exclusive with the banking industry as 9:39AM, the senile simpleton believes.

  9. UNC is an overpriced, overrated toilet.

  10. Nando, check this out:
    'Risk-Free' J.D. Offers Students a One-Year Escape Hatch
    At Cleveland-Marshall, they can leave with a master 's degree if they change their minds about practicing law.

    Read more: http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202646949483/%27Risk-Free%27-J.D.-Offers-Students-a-One-Year-Escape-Hatch#ixzz2wQTCB5Ja

    "With this program, that year won't be a waste of their time, and the degree would be attractive to employers, Boise said."

    What a joke.

  11. http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/02/trap-schools.html

    On February 13, 2012, Paul Campos wrote a great ITLSS piece entitled "Trap schools." Here is his definition:

    "In honor of Wednesday's nine-month NALP reporting deadline, I'd like to introduce the concept of a trap school. A trap school has the following characteristics:

    (1) It's expensive to attend.

    (2) It's located in what the sort of people who go to law school tend to consider a desirable place to live (obviously these first two factors are related).

    (3) It has superficially attractive employment and salary statistics.

    A trap school, in other words, is the kind of place that attracts the kind of highly-qualified, reasonably prudent 0Ls who would never consider attending the vast majority of law schools at anything like sticker price, and yet still ends up generating a very high risk of financial and personal disaster for its students. (Of course as long as law schools can get away with publishing misleading employment and salary statistics there are going to be a lot more trap schools than there would be otherwise, since it will be much easier for schools to make those statistics appear superficially attractive even to the reasonably prudent future victim of institutional malfeasance).

    Under current conditions, some good examples of trap schools include USC, George Washington, and Fordham."

    UNC Sewer of Law certainly fits the description above. It is expensive to attend, many lemmings consider Chapel Hill to be heaven on earth, and the commode has artificially enhanced its "placement" numbers - by hiring its own grads in garbage positions.

    In the end, if you have a stable and comfortable job, then you are better of staying there and perhaps try to work your way into management. Don't even consider taking the law school gamble. This is especially true if you have children or a spouse. At that point, you are not only ruining your own finances. Be a responsible adult, and take care of your children! If you wanted to play lawyer, and you now have additional mouths to feed, then the time to do so passed you by a while ago, ass-hat.

  12. Pete Seeger had a net worth of 4.2 Million when he died at age 94.

    Seeger died at NY Presbyterian hospital after living in the bum fuck backwoods of upstate NY for the remaining years of his life, and somehow he ended up in one of the most expensive and prestigious hospitals in all the world so he could croak as a wealthy man and. I forgot, a champion of the "poor and downtrodden"

    Bruce Sprinsteen, another baby boomer hero and outrageously rich Rock and Roll icon, called Pete Seeger his "Hero"

    Bruce Springsteen never finished college.

    And Bruce Springsteen, the so called blue collar icon, is not punished for life and buried in nonchargeable and toxic College debt for the rest of his natural life.

    Rush Limbaugh never finished college and neither did Sean Hannity, and they are the de facto politicians and leaders of the Republican party.

    BTW, Tony Little, who may or may not have a college degree, has a net worth of 200 million as compared to the net worth of Bruce Springsteen of 250 million, and boomer icon Neil Young with a crappy 65 million :)

    Go figure:


  13. Harry Balzac, esq.March 19, 2014 at 6:07 PM

    I went to a similar school. Public, good rep. When I went there, tuition was like $10K a year and you could be pretty sure of landing a job making $50K or 60K a year. That was in the late 1990s. Now tuition at my school is over $30K and you're lucky to make $50K a year. It's disgusting really.

  14. 502,

    Seriously, Paintroach - didn't you say you were DONE posting on the scamblogs? And, ah, "re-tuning" your hard drive (is your hard drive a car engine)?

    Now you're bitterly lashing out at Mick Jagger, Bruce Springsteen, etc. You're like the "debt" version of somebody with short-man's syndrome. Jealous, much?

  15. "Bruce Springsteen never finished college. And Bruce Springsteen, the so called blue collar icon, is not punished for life and buried in nonchargeable and toxic College debt for the rest of his natural life."

    Um, why the hell WOULD he be? Because misery loves company?

  16. What the hell is it about Baby Boomers and this uncontrollable urge to annihilate everything they touch? They went to school on the cheap, got actual jobs when they graduated, earned enough to buy houses and have investment portfolios, and might even have enough to retire on, but in their wake they have left a charred, barren landscape for the next generation - college costs a fortune and is nearly worthless, there are no jobs worth having and very few attainable in any respect, and the only thing they have to say is that the kids these days are lazy, greedy, entitled, or stupid, all because we're starving on the landscape of scorched earth that they in their hatred have left us. Honestly, what the hell is it?

    1. The Angry AccountantMarch 19, 2014 at 9:40 PM

      This is the first time that the older generation has feasted on the younger generation since World War I. The World War 2 generstion gave the baby boomers the keys to the kingdom but they destroyed the kingdom.They are the most entitled SOBs in the world.Look at Jane Fonda....

    2. 7:43, it's called free market, unregulated economy in a globalized, technological context...

  17. Unless you get into an ivy league law school or a full ride at a lesser school, it just isn't worth it. Still even, the full ride is potentially just 3 years of lost wages (forgetting money borrowed for books and other living expenses). And full sticker price at an ivy league law school is questionable, especially given the burn-out rate of biglaw associates. The long-term jobs aren't there, period. I went to a third tier law school with a 50% scholarship and got my summer jobs and post-graduation job all through my personal/family connections. I sent out countless resumes and went to career fairs during law school seeing if I could get offers from other places to "have options"...yeah right. All I got were rejections. I got my 1L and 2L summer jobs and associate job at my current midlaw firm because I had an inside connection. I knew people. Even now when I tell people where I work (top 20 firm in NJ) the first question they have is basically "so who do you know?" I graduated top 10% on law review but that didn't matter at all when I applied blindly to other firms. It's just an inside game. Lower ranked/smaller firms rejected my applications but I got into a higher ranked/bigger firm for summers and post-graduation because of my connections. Kids ranked higher than me at my school had unpaid internships 2L summer doing BS work and I was making $1000/week at a 10 week summer associate program. Do you see what you are up against? If you aren't inside, you are outside. Bottom line. I say this with no pleasure either like I'm enjoying rubbing it in anyone's face. I'm trying to help the 0Ls and 1Ls out there make the right call.

    I'm also fortunate to come from a family of nice means and had my law school paid for by my family. I consider myself blessed and genuinely feel for the many law grads out there without connections drowning in debt because they were lied to by administrators and recruiters with fake employment stats. Even at school I would talk to kids who didn't have contacts or post-graduation options about leaving after 1 year but all of them were special snowflakes and thought I was trying to limit competition. I knew the job situation before law school but still went because of my connections. If I didn't have those connections and the financial backing from my family, I definitely would NOT have enrolled.

    I talk to barely anyone from law school because I get upset/uncomfortable to be hearing about classmates unemployed or still working in internships. Then when they find out about my job situation they have to congratulate me but the subtext is clearly: "fuck you."

    1. I know exactly what you mean, I don't ever talk about the fact that I have a job lined up with anyone. I'm at a school where less than half get full-time long term lawyer jobs post-grad... No one speaks of jobs, ever. Students are basically the walking dead, and if they're not, they're COMPLETELY clueless as to how royally F%$^*& they are. I know that I'm a lucky one, that's why I've been following scam movement. Law school is the worst. Worthless journals, worthless classes, arrogant professors, stuck up bratty students (who don't have a chance of getting hired by anyone, anywhere, let alone in the legal field).

      I'll be out of here in a few weeks, and I'm never looking back. I'm also never giving a dime to this S&^%hole ever in my life, for any reason. Not paying for the "class gift," not going to an alumni event. If I do ever have the chance to come speak to 1L's or to participate in alumni meet-and-greet stuff, I'm going to hand out flyers explaining how F&*^ed up the legal education system is, and how much of a waste of time and money law school is generally, UNLESS of course you get lucky or have connections...

    2. Someone's a fan of "Wall Street."

      Love it.

      You couldn't be more right. I just rewatched that movie the other day. The talk Gekko had with Bud in his office after Bud finds out he's selling off the airline.

      Gekko was right. The movie is now a bit dated but his talk was dead-on. Same with his speech at the shareholder meeting for Teldar Paper.

      The concepts are still as valid today as they were in 1987.

      Wall Street 2..


      He was the only good character. The rest of the movie sucked.

  18. http://www.law.unc.edu/journals/ncilj/

    Take a look at this nonsense. UNC $chool of Law features a journal on “international law” and commercial litigation. Here is the full description, as provided by the public toilet:

    “North Carolina Journal of International Law and Commercial Regulation

    The North Carolina Journal of International Law and Commercial Regulation (ILJ) is a student-run legal journal at the University of North Carolina School of Law in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

    ILJ is dedicated to stimulating an intellectual environment through legal scholarship in the areas of international law, international trade, and commercial regulation. In order to achieve this goal, ILJ publishes four issues each year featuring articles written by leading scholars, respected practitioners, and ILJ staff members.

    In order to foster discussion of international legal issues, ILJ also hosts an annual symposium that brings together the legal community for academic and public discourse on an important issue in international law. To register for our Symposium, please visit our symposium page.

    In recent years, international law has been one of the fastest growing sectors in American legal curricula. The University of North Carolina School of Law has not only kept pace with this growth, but continuously encourages its development. For convincing proof of the law school's long-term commitment to providing educational opportunities in the field of international law, one need look no further than the North Carolina Journal of International Law and Commercial Regulation.

    As an extension of the University of North Carolina School of Law, ILJ has two principal goals. First, ILJ seeks to broaden the image of the school by providing attorneys with a publication focused on the practice of international law. Second, ILJ seeks to keep the law school in contact with those in the business and legal community that are forging ahead in the practice of international law.”

    Why don’t the pigs simply use the entire acronym? After all, who wouldn’t be excited to read something called the NCJILCR?!?! In the end, legal employers will not be impressed with your membership on such a pathetic journal. If you include this on your resume, law firm hiring partners will laugh their asses off. At least, you will be providing them with a coaster for their morning coffee.

  19. I've never seen such immature whining in my life. BOO HOO HOO. The Boomers did this and that to me. Its all their fault that I am a complete failure in life. The Rolling Stones are Communists as are all Boomer Rock Stars . . . and they Suck too. Listen up whiners . . You have never served your Country. You have never done squat except try to enrich yourselves. Everything is all about YOU. Look up the word NARCISSIST, look up the elements of that psychological condition and you will find that many of you fit the definition to a T. If you didn't make it . . TOUGH. Grow some balls and accept responsibility for your own actions. Nobody pointed a gun at you and told you to go to law school or take out hundreds of K of loans. Whose fault is it that you now blame everyone but yourselves for your lot in life. Pitiful and disgraceful.

    1. Gee, why do fraud laws even exist? Got ripped off by Bernie Madoff? No one told you to give him your money. You did it on your own. Tough. Now you blame everyone but yourselves for investing your money with Bernie Madoff. Pitiful and disgraceful.

      Go F yourself. The law schools engage in fraudulent inducement, you schmuck. They lie about facts regarding jobs and salaries that they know to be presently untrue.

      Seriously die in hell.

    2. Noone's blaming other people, just calling out a sort of screwed up system.

      You clearly have no idea what education costs nowadays, nor do you understand the actual situation regarding legal employment, and the fact that law schools report shady employment numbers to prospective students.

    3. "You have never done squat except try to enrich yourselves."

      Yeah, these damn kids and their pitiful, disgraceful attempts to get careers started! Going to college, just like they've been told to do their entire lives, trying in good faith to live up to society's expectations...simply disgusting!

    4. I forgot to mention that Bruce Springsteen is worth a cool 65 million and you can google that.

      But yes it is really true :)

      The Boomers ARE all Communists and so are their Rock Stars!!!!!

      I hate to break the news to the old boomers, but you all suck and are shit, and so are your rock stars.

      Fuck man! One day Jimmy Page rang the opening bell on Wall Street. How in bed with the banks is that?

      "In one chapter he examined the philosophical effects of popular music on the lives of students, placing pop music, or as it is generically branded by record companies "rock music", in a historical context from Plato’s Republic to Nietzsche’s Dionysian longings. Treating it for the first time with genuine philosophical interest, he gave fresh attention to the industry, its target-marketing to children and teenagers, its top performers, its place in our late-capitalist bourgeois economy, and its pretensions to liberation and freedom. Bloom, informed by Socrates, Aristotle, Rousseau and Nietzsche, explores music’s power over the human soul. He cites the soldier who throws himself into battle at the urging of the drum corps, the pious believer who prays under the spell of a religious hymn, the lover seduced by the romantic guitar, and points towards the tradition of philosophy that treated musical education as paramount. He names the pop-star Mick Jagger as a cardinal representative of the hypocrisy and erotic-sterility of pop-music. Pop music employs sexual images and language to enthrall the young and to persuade them that their petty rebelliousness is authentic politics, when, in fact, they are being controlled by the money-managers whom successful performers like Jagger quietly serve."

    5. dude, i'm not even a law student nor aspire to become one, but just wanted to say FUCK YOU for that annoying ass comment. if you were my dad and you said that shit to my face, i would punch you in the balls. of course people are trying to look out for themselves and have a good career, it's called life.

  20. Seriously, 9:28am, you're...how do you put it...if you aren't some teenage troll-if you really are a baby boomer-you never served anywhere, either. To wrap your self in the flag and then lie about service-that's disgusting. And it you've got time to visit this blog and taunt others-seriously, you need help. It's not just that baby boomers are running the diploma mills, it's that these boomer geniuses, through naked greed, created the worst national economic disaster since the Great Depression-and the country still hasn't recovered(and the legal profession probably never will).
    So please, just go away.

  21. 304,

    Um, aren't you a boomer yourself? Are all of the boomers little Paintroachies who lived with their parents until they were 100? Someday, Roach-turd. Someday those parents of yours will no longer provide for you with your little fucking allowance. And no one will be happier than I to watch you finally - at long and blessed last - FINALLY sink or swim on your own. Ehm, I'm putting a hundred on SINK ...

  22. "Diploma Mills" is a term that should be discussed and elaborated on.

    The term "Mill" is often used for sleazy personal injury law firms as well.

  23. http://www.law.unc.edu/journals/ncbank/

    Check out this hilarious journal description:

    “North Carolina Banking Institute Journal

    Welcome to the North Carolina Banking Institute website.

    The NCBI is a student-edited legal journal at the University of North Carolina School of Law in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. The NCBI was formed in 1996 by a dedicated group of UNC Law students, UNC Law faculty, and attorneys. The NCBI was then officially recognized as a journal by the UNC School of Law in the Spring of 1998, becoming the third recognized journal at the School. Now, in its eighteenth year, the NCBI continues to thrive with approximately 300 law schools, law firms, and financial institutions subscribing to the journal, which is published annually in the Spring.

    Through this website and its annually published journal, the NCBI aims to be a leading resource and place for discourse on practical, cutting-edge issues facing attorneys, judges, policymakers, and scholars within the banking industry. It is the goal of the NCBI to give you real-time access to these issues, making our scholarship more current and influential. To keep you informed of current news in the banking industry, see the "Banking News" page. To assist you in your banking related research needs, see "The Banking Resource" page. To retrieve a PDF version of a particular article or note in a NCBI Volume, see the "Volumes" page. To circulate YOUR ideas on a particular issue related to the legal aspects of the banking industry or in response to a particular article or note in a NCBI Volume, see "The Balance Sheet" page.

    Thank you for visiting the NCBI website, where you can find tomorrow's research today.

    Editorial Board, Volume 18”

    If you ever run out of toilet paper, you can wipe your ass with a hard copy of the North Carolina Banking InsTTTTiTTTTuTTTTe Journal. Yes, what a truly “prestigious” publication, huh?!?!


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