Sunday, August 3, 2014

The Atlantic and CNN Profile the Filthy Underbelly of the Noble “Profession”

Monstrous Debt, Low Pay: On July 15, 2014, CNN Money posted a Ben Brody article labeled “Go to law school. Rack up debt. Make $62,000.” Read the following segment:

“Leslie Thompson earns $40,000 a year working two jobs, but her Albuquerque, N.M., house almost went into foreclosure twice this year.

Thompson's trade? She's a lawyer.

Lawyers have been struggling for a while now, but it's gotten even worse: Half of lawyers are now starting at a salary of less than $62,000 a year, according to the National Association for Law Placement.

Not only that, but starting salaries have fallen 13% over the past six years, down from $72,000 in 2008. At the same time, lawyers' student debts are piling up. Thompson is carrying over $150,000 in student loans.

The law profession took a big hit in the recession: Firms saw profits decline, and stiff competition for jobs dragged salaries down.

"The third quarter of 2008 [it] was just like the spigot got turned off," says James Leipold, executive director of the law association.” [Emphasis mine]

James Leipold is a vile worm. In the past, he helped the law schools lure in more victims – by allowing them to claim 98% employment placement rates. At any rate, this reporter does not understand that LPOs, automation, outsourcing, predictive coding, and legal software programs have had a devastating effect on recent law graduates. When given a choice, do you think that broke-ass potential clients are going to hire a lawyer to do a will, or do suppose that they’ll go with Legal Zoom?

Hell, you also go with Quicken software, Rocket Lawyer,, and Total Legal for self-help and legal forms. Lay people can now access statutes and case law online. Many defendants are now representing themselves and entering their own plea bargains. They have figured out that they don’t need to shell out $3,000 for a DUI lawyer to get them a lesser conviction. These technological developments have likewise lessened the need for firms to hire associates. This is simple economics, people.

The author then continued:

“Back in 2008, associates at big firms made $125,000 straight out of school. But by last year, that had dropped to $95,000. And the vast majority of lawyers actually work at small firms for much less money. Local prosecutors, for instance, make about $50,000 in their first year, while those with 15 years of experience only earn $80,000.

"In American culture, our sense of being a lawyer is so much driven by television," Leipold says. "Sure, there are a handful of people making a lot of money, but it's not the rule."

James Leipold, why weren’t you making these statements five or ten years ago, bitch?!?! Did you feel that students back then did not deserve to be better informed about the job market?

Even the Winners Want Out of the “Profession”: The Atlantic published an epic Leigh McMullan Abramson piece, on July 29, 2014. The article was entitled “The Only Job With an Industry Devoted to Helping People Quit.” Look at this brutal opening:

“I went to law school because I didn’t know what to do after college and I'm bad at math. Law school seemed like a safe, respectable path and gave me an easy answer to what I was going to do with my life. And, as part of the millennial generation obsessed with test scores and academic achievement, I relished the spoils of a high LSAT score, admission to an Ivy League law school, and a job offer from a fancy corporate law firm.

I spent my first year as lawyer holed up in a conference room sorting piles of documents wearing rubber covers on my fingertips that looked like tiny condoms. Eventually, I was trusted with more substantive tasks, writing briefs and taking depositions. But I had no appetite for conflict and found it hard to care about the interests I was serving. I realized I had never seriously considered whether I was cut out to be a lawyer, much less a corporate litigator. After a few years, I just wanted out, but I had no idea where to begin.

I knew that I was not alone. Law-firm associate consistently ranks at the top of unhappy-professions lists and despite starting salaries of $160,000, law firms experience significant yearly associate attrition. What I didn’t realize was that the plight of burnt-out attorneys, particularly those at law firms, has recently spawned an industry of experts devoted to helping lawyers leave law. Attorneys now have their choice of specialized career counselors, blogs, books, and websites offering comfort and guidance to wannabe ex-Esqs.

“Law is the only career I know that has a sub-profession dedicated to helping people get out of it,” says Liz Brown, author of the help manual, Life After Law: Finding Work You Love with the J.D. You Have, published last year.” [Emphasis mine]

Do…you…understand…that, Lemmings?!?! Or do I need to draw you a diagram on posterboard with Crayola, so that it can penetrate your gray matter? This article points out that successful law graduates cannot wait to leave this filth behind and move on with their lives. Could you imagine - for one damn second - if such a sub-industry existed helping physicians who want to leave the practice of medicine?!?!

Conclusion: Sadly, the CNN Money piece may inadvertently cause a few more waterheads to apply to law school. These morons might see a median starting salary of $62K, and completely ignore the staggering amount of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. What these fools should realize by now is that they are likely to earn $35K-$45K upon graduation. Try making rent, providing food and essentials, and repaying your student loans, on that income. Now, imagine if you had to support a family on that measly salary. In the final analysis, YOU need to look at law school solely as A FINANCIAL DECISION. After all, this will impact you for the rest of your life.


  1. This field sucks.

    Everyone is competing for public sector jobs, of which there are few, and gov't at all levels is cutting back. In addition to the salaries and benefits for lawyers, which are greater than the private sector, PSLF is what the majority is after.

    People just refuse to get that $35-40k is the norm for lawyers - if they can even get hired at a firm. Why wouldn't it be? There's, on average, 3 applicants for every job. In states like NY and CA and FL, it's much, much worse.

    When will people realize that law is dead as a career for the great majority? The debt level has more than eaten up any returns and the salary levels have fallen to below what a freshly minted college grad can make starting out. Certainly below any definition of a middle-class wage.


    There's always another Lemming around the block waiting to believe the myths and propaganda put out by the media and the law schools. And by Boomers who live in their own world and have since 1972.

  2. The legal profession is a shithole. It's not just the law schools.

  3. Washington & Lee did something about their employment problem. When their employment figures were as bad as bottom feeder law schools, they made sure things changed. They hired their graduates themselves! In 2012, only 1,5% of their students were in school-funded jobs, but in 2013, 11.2% were. Of course these jobs were part-time, temporary jobs that disappeared after the counting was done. But so what, W & L's figures looked better. One little problem. Their underemployment score for 2013 was 35% compared to 31.5% for 2012. So their placement was actually worse in 2013 than 2012 even though they hired (temporarily) over 10% of the 2013 class.

    This is how law schools with scam deans like Nora Demleitner work. They make things look better rather than actually making things better. This is why Washington and Lee dropped the most of all law schools in entering law students last year.

  4. Washington and/or Lee is trying to hide the fact that it's third year program has been a failure. Instead of improving placement, placement has gotten worse since W & L started the program.

  5. Washington and/or Lee is trying to hide the fact that it's third year program has been a failure. Instead of helping job placement it has made it worse.

  6. Who, other than biglaw associates and government lawyers, starts off at $62K? My first gig didn't even come close to that, and I was just happy to have a friggin' job after nearly a year of searching. I think those starting salary figures may be on the high side.

  7. You don't start out making $62k. You're either one of the few that lands Biglaw or you're looking at making $40k.

    But for the sake of argument, let's say you are the rare (extremely rare) new JD making $62k. Does it make sense to take out $141k or more (or a little less) in student loans for that salary?

    Unless you're mentally retarded, you know the answer is No. It's not even close to a good tradeoff. Think how long it will take you to pay that amount off. Your monthly student loan payment will be about $1200 a month if you're on the 30 year plan.

    You can't afford to lose your job in that 30 years or you could default. Even if you go into forbearanace, guess what. Interest is piling up while you look for another job.

    That's $1200 a month that's not going to rent, food, clothing, insurance, meds, cars. What woman or man would even consider dating such a loser (even one making $62k a year)? Now if the loser is only making $40k, he's really fucked.

  8. Undergraduates are now being advised not to take out more debt than what they expect their first year earnings to be. Given that many law students also have undergrad debt, one wonders who is advising law students?

    1. Thank you for this comment.

      When the government or the public perceive a consumer is not sophisticated, the law seeks to protect that consumer. There are laws that could be used to protect law students, but law schools and their principals are too politically and judicially connected for justice to happen.

      The myth of the hyper-sophisticated potential law school consumer should be blown out of the water by schools accepting applicants with LSAT scores not exceeding a score achievable by pure chance.

  9. Again, another great article and backed up by CNN Money. Anyone can see the misalignment between the debt and salary mathematically. On top of that, notice that starting salaries have dropped (and will most likely continue to drop) while tuition increases creating an economic anomaly that is reflected in noticeable decreasing law school applicants. The icing on the cake is that if you do make it somehow, you will be miserable and looking to leave the profession so it doesn't get better with time. With that in mind, is there anything positive in the profession of law???

  10. I didn't R TFA but I really doubt that 62k figure. Does it count part time jobs? How many grads didn't report low salaries out of embarrassment? How many exaggerated? If someone is unemployed were they excluded from the calculations or was their salary of $0.00 factored into the average?

    Still this is another step in the right direction.

  11. BamBam, the figure doesn't count part time jobs or the unemployed. When you take those things into account, the median starting salary would be more like $40K.

  12. Let’s review some of the comments, from this article:

    Five days ago, “Order_of_the_Coitus” posted this retort:

    “Law school is a scam!!!!! DO NOT go unless $200,000+ in non-dischargeable student loan debt, no job, and living in your parents' basement is your idea of fun. It's a scam set up to make law administrators and professors wealthy off your federal government loans.”

    One commenter, using the handle “Unemployed_Northeastern,” ripped the pigs with this post six days ago:

    Of course, much like the headhunters that specialize in finding lawyers new jobs inside the legal profession, this boutique industry of career advisers who assist attorneys in leaving the profession cater to an incredibly miniscule fraction of the profession: graduates of "top" law schools with BigLaw experience on their resumes. Frankly, they are the group that needs the least assistance.

    Meanwhile, nearly 50% of all law school graduates are unemployed or underemployed nine months after graduation, and a plurality of those with *actual* lawyer jobs are so woefully underpaid that they also seek to leave the profession. Soon after the nine month mark, another class of law school graduates enters the workforce, and the labor supply becomes that much worse - and we are now in year seven of this phenomenon. These headhunters will not touch this group with a ten-foot pole.

    Sadly, the author does not see fit to even mention the plight of these non-BigLaw attorneys and their Sisyphean efforts to leave the profession in her lengthy article. Mind you, Biglaw hiring at its peak in the Oughties never amounted to more than about 12% of all law school graduates, overwhelmingly concentrated at the schools at the top of the US News Rankings (like the author's UPenn).

    - One of America's tens of thousands of un/underemployed attorneys”

    Do you still want to piss away your future, lemmings?!?! If you want to move up in the world, then you are much better off staying in your job, performing well, and seeking promotions in your company. At least, in that situation, you will not be required to incur an additional $125K-$180K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for *a chance* to enter a GLUTTED, shrinking field.

  13. Now, check out this mini-thread below, in the comments section of this Atlantic article, from five days ago. User “Lee” stated the following:

    “The legal job market hasn't historically had any kind of "boom and bust" cycle, this was a once-in-the-last-300-years event. I still don't fully understand the economics behind this particular bubble, although I'm sure it's been analyzed extensively.

    Basically all I can say is that I entered law school in 2000 and was wined and dined and generally courted like a star athlete by a bunch of large firms when I graduated; Then several of my friends, who were every bit as qualified as I was, went to law school a few years later, got similar offers, and then had those offers withdrawn as the large law firms hit the skids en masse.

    Law school enrollment has dropped precipitously since then, which is a good thing. Like I said, there are certainly better candidates for your pity if you've got a finite supply, but I can't pretend that all those law students should have seen it coming, because a lot of much better informed people didn't, either.”

    Then “qpurkey” provided this response:

    “Some law schools misrepresented the employment statistics of their graduates, making it seem like everybody was landing high-paying jobs when the reality is much different. A few schools wound up in court over this.

    Sure, due diligence would have shown that law jobs aren't falling from the sky, but it is hard to discount information from what appears to be a reputable source.”

    Here is Lee’s reply:

    “That's still going on, according to a friend of mine who is a law prof at a top 10 school. They don't outright lie, but they definitely produce misleading stats.”

    Of course, the law school cockroaches continue to artificially inflate their employment “placement” rates. The pigs hire many of their recent grads in part-time, short-term jobs – in order to bolster their figures. Plus, the dung beetles include non-law positions. Because people need a law degree to work as insurance adjusters and bartenders, right?!?! The swindlers do so, because they want to increase their USN&WR ranking and entice more idiots to apply to and enroll in their commode.

    It is refreshing to see someone who supposedly landed Biglaw understand that the schools are dishonest garbage pits. He mentions that his friends – who came after him – were every bit as qualified as him, but they had their offers rescinded. Graduates of third tier toilets are way worse off than their counterparts from “elite” law schools. Hell, those JDs have fewer table scraps now.

  14. I remember my TTT giving us a brochure that said 90% of their graduates had jobs with an average salary of 70k a year. I remember thinking "OK, even if I don't get a great job after law school, I should be all right with odds like that." Little did I know, that included people working in retail, people volunteering for no pay and people who left law school with the same job they had when they entered. The average salary number did not take into account the people who did not report, i.e. the people making small wages. So they were able to include someone volunteering in their employed numbers but not in the salary calculation.

    While I should have been skeptical of those numbers, I was sure that a law school (a guardian of the ethical legal profession) would not lie to me. Now that law schools have to publish semi transparent numbers, many TTTs does not even include salary information anymore because it would look a hell of a lot worse than the 70k. Now that the law schools have to publish the real (or at least more realistic) employment numbers, it's no wonder applications are sinking. If I had seen the numbers they have to publish now, I would have avoided law school at all costs. Of course, with the numbers they are required to publish now, I can't understand why most law students enroll in law school now. It's absolutely crazy to go to law school today with all the unemployed/underemployed and indebted graduates. I bet we could reduce the apps even further if we required schools to publish the debt numbers for the school (which is difficult to find since the schools don't like to give it out). The moral of the story is; DON'T. GO. TO. LAW. SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. State the name of the law school. Don't let the scammers hide.

  15. ^This

    The schools are allowed to count everyone who's employed (even the ones working in laundromats) under the employment numbers. But they can exclude them from the salary data as long as the low income earners don't report their salaries. And we all know the lawyers making shit wages aren't gonna bother reporting their salaries. Mostly 'cause they're embarrassed to tell their school they're making $30k.

  16. HOW could CNN have missed the total number of unemployed law school graduates?

    The article focuses only on those graduates who have work. It fails to mention that half of all law school graduates are NOT able to secure full time work within a year of graduation.

    Thus, this figure of $62,000 is very misleading. Since half of all graduates make $0 per year (because they are unemployed), the true average salary is closer to $30,000.

    Perhaps we should start pushing Fox News to report on the law school scam. Some of the conservatives there are just itching to stick it to academia.

  17. Contacting Fox News to cover the law school scam is a good idea. They'd stick it to academia.

    But something tells me most of their viewers would be happy to see law grads drowning in debt.

  18. ^THIS^. Inevitably, in the wake of s story like this getting covered, there is a huge tidal wave of snide, derisive, nasty comments by people taking pleasure in the fact "lawyers" are stuck in a miserable situation. remember, people HATE attorneys; that is one of the many reasons The Scam has gone on for so long. No one cares what happens to them. And, by them, I'm including law students. The public doesn't distinguish or otherwise parse their hatred of the "profession."

    1. Yes. Everyone hates lawyers, but loves free legal advice. There's probably more ignorance in regards to what lawyers do, why litigation is so very expensive, etc. than there is ignorance regarding the workings of almost any other profession. I think perhaps only finance is more opaque to the consumer.

      It sucks. We have to save ourselves.

  19. Free legal advice is wanted by pretty much everyone family members included. I would love to see the same mooches ask their mechanic for free auto repairs. They'd be told to go fuck themselves and probably tossed out of the shop.

  20. AnonymousAugust 4, 2014 at 12:46 PM
    Free legal advice is wanted by pretty much everyone family members included. I would love to see the same mooches ask their mechanic for free auto repairs. They'd be told to go fuck themselves and probably tossed out of the shop.


    You are spot on. Most of a lawyer's labor is mental work. No one is doing anything for free. Even more, mechanics are looking for ways to charge more money (e.g. misc. fees, padding the hours, and so on).

    1. ...and because it is mental work there is an attitude that one is needlessly stingy and profit-driven if one does not wish to potentially incur civil liability giving free 'advice' to a person whose motive is, 'how can i use this authority / information to beat the metaphorical daylights out of my enemy?'

      Lawyers have to be more mature about conflict than 99.99% of people, since we're the ones sent into the ring to do the bashing or get bashed.

      So, the 'free' legal advice thing is like having someone ask you to go get into a fist fight for them for free, and they're astounded and indignant that you might not be excited about that prospect.

      Oh and, they'll tell you the guy you're to fight is 4 feet tall and weighs 80 pounds, but he's actually a 6 foot 4, 200 pound, ripped gym rat.

      Best o' luck to ya, you dirty lawyer!

  21. The law schools are leveraged to the hilt. The idiots running these places thought the good times of high enrollment would never end. They built shiny new buildings and law centers. How many of the 200+ schools owe giant bonds on those buildings? This is good news and you played a big part in that nando. Thank you.

    1. Sadly, the worst scammers (deans and tenured profs) will escape with golden parachutes. This is especially true at state schools, where taxpayers will be stuck paying pensions for decades to these scammers who will retire in comfort.

      I wish this weren't true, but I fear it is.

    2. But will any schools close down?

  22. Time to work on reaching FOUR MILLION VIEWS! :)

  23. On July 15, 2014, “misanthropeinbathtub” started a JDU topic labeled “Latest article on terrible market for lawyer.” It refers to the CNN Money piece cited in the main TTR entry. Check out this brilliant thread between “keithd” and “gribble”:

    On July 15, 2014 - at 8:52 pm – keithd submitted this comment:

    “Law school was basically sold to the liberal arts masses as an elixir that will get them out of their $29,000/yr post undergrad jobs and place them back into a collegiate environment (parties and drinking, yay!) and then shoehorn them immediately into a world of six figure incomes, models, and bottles, simply for three more years of going to class and taking tests. It really ought to be obvious that this is a scam. The fact that so many intelligent people believed in it, and STILL believe in it every year, is nothing short of shocking.”

    This analysis is pretty solid. Seeing that there are relatively FEW GOOD JOBS for recent college grads, it makes some sense that many of these men and women would seek an advanced degree. After all, they have been told THEIR ENTIRE LIVES that “More education means a higher income.”

    On the same day, at 9:03 pm, gribble responded with this gem – which ought to be required reading for anyone even considering law school:

    “I think a lot of people got suckered in thinking they'd start $50-60k a year and then have a long career where they can work hard and it would pay off long term.

    That's the real trap. Most people understand Big Law is unlikely. Most young people don't even need six figure incomes to start. As you state, they're in $29k jobs and looking for better. Well $60k more than doubles that.

    Also keep in mind the debt didn't really explode until about 10 years ago or so. There were people warning that it was a bad idea back then. And they were right.

    If your total debt load from law school is say $45k, is that life crippling even if law doesn't work out? No, I really don't think it is. Probably even 2-3 years of doc review can pay that off for someone that really hustles, or small law etc.

    But $145k? Now it gets much tougher if you're actually dealing with that debt.

    Law school has been a bad deal for decades, but without the debt a lot of people just never practice and can move on. Something like only 50% of JDs practiced. That isn't because 50% all went to law school to not then practice, it's because they found there was no room for them and they just moved on.”

    Gribble nailed it to a goddamn tee, with that insight! Disgruntled college grads feel that they will be better off earning $55K per year, even if they incur an additional $100K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. However, as most have pointed out – including Bill Henderson of Indiana University Maurer Sewer of Law – if you do not land Biglaw, then you are likely to earn $35K-$55K annually.

  24. Take a look at this Jean Chatzky article for savvymoney, which was entitled “Rules For Taking Out and Paying Back Student Loans.” Focus on the following portion:

    “Set a limit. Mark Kantrowitz, one of my most trusted financial aid sources and the publisher of, has a couple rules of thumb for borrowing. The first is to make sure that the total amount you borrow for college is less than your expected starting salary. If you’re going to be a neurosurgeon, you can borrow a bit more (in fact, let’s be honest – you likely won’t have a choice). But if you wants to be a writer, your borrowing will need to be more conservative. If an expected starting salary is too nebulous of an idea for you, try Kantrowitz’s second rule: Don’t borrow more than $10,000 for each year you’re in school.”

    Do you understand that concept, waterheads/future law students?!?! Taking out $100K in additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, to earn $55K per year, is moronic. And that is a better scenario facing you, dolt. You are more likely to incur $130K+ to land a job where you make $39K annually. Do the math, retards! There are online calculators to help you, so that you don’t have an aneurism trying to figure this stuff out, cretins.

    These stories highlight the fact that decent jobs are dwindling in this country. What do you expect, with the focus on IT and automation? Selfish pig companies make money by offshoring good-paying U.S. jobs overseas, where they have fewer regulations and a gigantic pool of cheap labor.

    However, if you are one of the lucky bastards with a BA or BS who is making around $40K per year, then you are better off remaining in that job and working your ass off to make manager. Get along with your coworkers and supervisors, and produce better results than your colleagues. If you have some people skills, then you can still move up in the company – even in this garbage economy. In the event that management at your firm is full of fossils, dinosaurs and Boomer pigs, then look to transfer to a better competitor with more chances for advancement. You can also stay where you are at, and hope and pray that the old farts finally die or retire.

    We are trying to save you from FINANCIAL HELL, idiots. Scambloggers and other critics of “legal education” have done the research for you. If you insist on going to law school – and the terrible gamble does not pay off for you – then you have NO ONE to blame but yourself! Perhaps, you are the dense fool who NEEDS to figure things out on their own. In that case, go to the garage and drink some antifreeze – and then let us know how well that worked out for you.

    1. The figures are still misleading. They are only a snapshot at one point in time. They don't tell us anything about 3 years, or 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years from that point (tracking).

      How many people at the 62k figure move up to earn more? How many slide down to become unemployed or make less?

      Law is an up or out system.

      I'd say that many more people move down from that starting $62k figure than move up.

      Perhaps not.

      Maybe the majority past a certain data point move up. And the others, failing to reach that critical point, drop out.

      Point is, we just don't know..

    2. And how many are in the fake law school jobs-JD required/long term jobs which the law schools invented to inflate their stats? These jobs, which pay terribly, END permanently after one year. Not much career advancement there.

  25. Stop blaming Nora Demleitner. It's not her fault the economy went bad. She's doing the best she can under difficult circumstances.

    1. And if I recall correctly, that ridiculous simulated third-year curriculum isn't her fault, either. It was already in place when she got there.

      However, she is responsible for using a bogus innovation to attract uninformed students to a trap school with no natural market. WashLee can't even place in the nearby DC market, which falsifies its hollow claims to prestige.

      Given that WashLee is in a serious crisis, with no apparent reason to exist, I blame Dean Demleitner for not slashing tuition, along with salaries including her own.

  26. Law skool is for idiots.

  27. Remember those days when all of this truth wasn't mainstream? The scammers could just say their critics were losers who did not work hard enough to get a good job, or did not network. Now they have nowhere to hide.

  28. An attorney I know graduated top of his class from UIUC when things were still okay. Got a really good downtown job, but was laid off when the firm was in a position, thanks to the 2008 Big Law massacre, to hire a T14 grad at the same price. I am not inventing this story. How can things go so wrong when things are going so well? Welcome to the United States. It's kinda how we operate.

    Honestly, the small town attorney who's the big fish in the little sea with no competition is probably leading a happier life than most of the idiots gunning for "the top." His living expenses are low, his wife and kids are well off, his income doesn't "have" to be high. He's doing alright.

    ANYBODY going to law school should, before they take their first bullshit law school exam (which is basically nothing more than a highly sophisticated hazing ritual - talk to a law student who actually attended a T14 school) should have at least one or two solid exit options from law. Before they graduate, before they are barred, before they even begin practicing. There is zero job security for anybody. We're highly credentialed drones and there are more coming off the assembly line every single day.

  29. The employment statistics are still highly misleading. It is so much worse than the law schools' fraudulent advertising suggests.

    Last night I was talking to a non-lawyer who has spent his entire adult, working career (the last 15 years) at a law firm in the AM 50.

    He said rate competition is so bad that firms are bidding jobs at cost to buy client relationships.

    He said the legal industry - as we all know but some do not - has simply gotten worse, and worse, and worse since 2008 and he's worried about his job.

    Corporate law is a canary in a coal mine: corporations may be sitting on record cash but this means they're engaging in no economic activity in the economy that generates litigation.

    "Now we're only taking a handful of ivy league graduates in the top 5% of their law school classes. It breaks my heart to see these really smart people who invested so much in law school be left with nothing for it."

    THEN, which surprised me since he is in no way connected to the scamblogging movement, he said the LAW SCHOOLS ARE THE PROBLEM AND NEED TO BE SHUTTERED TO STEM OVER-PRODUCTION OF LAWYERS!!!

    How many more big law fails will it take to wake up the lemmings? How many more lives destroyed will the government demand to be burned at the altar of her back-stabbing lending system and economic stimulus plan?


  30. Something tells me if more law students had worked at law firms before they enrolled in law school, there'd be a lot less broke motherfuckers with law degrees.


    This morning, Paul Campos posted an entry labeled "Looking back at ITLSS." Take a look at this excerpt:

    "On the eve of another academic year, this post looks back on the project from the perspective of what's changed and what hasn't in the law school world since the summer of 2011.

    What's changed:

    The central theme of the blog -- that there's a genuine crisis in legal academia, because law schools are turning out far too many graduates and far too high of a cost -- has gone from a fringe position in the academy, to a widely accepted view within it, and something like the conventional wisdom outside it.

    Law school applications and enrollment have both plunged. The 2014 cycle featured about 55,000 applicants, down from 88,000 in 2010. Despite moderate to severe cuts in admissions standards at almost all law schools other than Harvard, Yale, and Stanford, the 2014 first year class will include somewhere between 37,000 and 38,000 students, down from 52,500 in 2010.

    After decades of non-stop growth, average effective tuition (sticker tuition minus discounts) has at least flattened out and possibly even declined slightly over the last two to three years. This is a product of the combination of schools continuing to raise their sticker rates at faster than inflation, but offering deeper discounts to a larger percentage of their admits. The net effect of this has been to keep average tuition from rising in real terms, although of course this pattern exacerbates the reverse Robin Hood structure of contemporary legal education, in which students with lower entrance numbers (and, crucially, lower SES backgrounds) subsidize the attendance of their better-credentialed, richer, and better-connected classmates."

    Basically, the law school pigs are no longer ignoring the problems facing their students and recent graduates. Hint: this is not due to some newfound sense of honor or integrity – but because ABA-accredited trash cans are starting to reduce faculty staff. You’re welcome, bitches!

    Campos has done a beautiful job of documenting the Reverse Robin Hood structure of U.S. “legal education.” As far as I’m concerned, today’s law school applicants – especially those from low socioeconomic status - have no excuse for their decision to attend these diploma mills.

    There’s this thing called the internet – maybe you’ve heard of the damn thing? - that pretty much anyone over the age of 10 in this country can access with PCs, laptops, cell phones, or Tablets. Hell, if you cannot afford the service, then you can go to the local library, coffee shops, or McDonald’s and use their Wi-Fi.

    All you have to do is Google “law school.” If you have a newer browser, several “in-depth articles” will be highlighted, which document the “looming crisis in legal education.” On my screen, David Segal’s epic January 8, 2011 NYT piece “Is Law School a Losing Game” is featured on the first page of results. This is essentially common knowledge at this point, and has been for the last several years. If you cannot even take 15-30 minutes to research this GLUTTED field, then how the hell did you expect to ever represent clients in actual legal cases?!?! For the hopelessly lazy and mentally deficient, I have provided the link below.

    1. I, for one, am still unwilling to entirely blame lemmings.

      The schools are reaching for an especially ignorant demographic now, and one especially likely to be lured by the unexpected ego-stroking of being told, "you are elite; you are special; you may enter the gate of instant respectability."

      The schools go so far as to call the empiricism of scambloggers false, and produce their own predictions about the future - based on nothing but unicorn farts - to argue against the reality and truth they now know may have reached their prospective students' ears.

      When I see advertisements, youtube videos, etc. featuring deans and professors smiling and excitedly claiming there is vast and growing opportunity for law graduates, I want to puke.

      Until we start holding these parties responsible for fraud, it's an uphill battle. They are inviting reliance; they are reckless or lying; they aim precisely - as their advertisements frequently suggest - to dissuade prospective students from believing the bad news in the employment market.

      This is ludicrous. It has to end. It's not "puffery." It's persons holding themselves out as "experts," flaunting their credentials, and explicitly inviting reliance on their affirmative misrepresentations. One cannot do this when selling homes or cars without potential liability, why can they do it when selling diplomas, the financing for which is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy?

    2. I second what 10:16 wrote.

      Law schools have doubled down on their predatory approach, and are now targeting some of the most vulnerable segments of society to take on ridiculous amounts of debt while still maintaining that a legal education is a safe bet.

      They're nothing but parasites. And I hope that the scamblogs can continue to hold these grifters' feet to the fire.

  32. Hopefully, this doesn't have any major negative impact on things like ediscovery software and technology!


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