Tuesday, September 16, 2014

First Tier Corn-Filled Excrement: Cornell University Law School


Tuition: If you are eating breakfast right now, make sure to turn away before reading the following figure. Full-time law students at Cornell will be charged $59,360 in tuition, for the 2014-2015 school year! That is a ridiculous sum. This does not count fees. Keep in mind that this is the third best law school in New York.

Estimated Cost of Attendance: On this same page, the pigs list additional expenses at $20,069 – including student fees. This brings the published COA to $79,429. What a bargain, huh?!?! Does this come with weekly massages, the NFL Sunday Ticket, and free season admission to Yankee Stadium?

Don’t forget that ABA-accredited diploma mills base living costs on the academic calendar. Seeing that actual law students will require expenses over the full year – and not nine months – we will prorate the following items: room and board; and personal/travel. For the purpose of this calculation, health insurance will remain unaffected. Although, students who use this will likely incur co-pays and out of pocket costs. Hopefully, the coverage lasts for the full 12 months.

After making the adjustments noted above, the more accurate, estimated COA – for one damn year of law school at Cornell Univer$ity – is $84,846! Who doesn’t have that money in their couch cushions?!?! If this sickening amount doesn’t strike you as outrageous, then you wouldn’t get upset if a stranger walked up to you – and kicked you square in the nuts.


Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, Cornell Univer$ity Law $chool is rated as the 13th best law school in the country. It shares this distinction with Georgetown University Law Cesspool. At these prices, this is still a ripoff – for the student. The “professors” and administrators likely feel that this cost is a great deal for pupils.


Employment Placement Statistics: On the right hand side of this page, you will see a chart for the Class of 2013. Based on this info, there were 193 members of this cohort. Of this total, 178 found jobs within nine months of graduation. Four JDs were enrolled in another advanced degree program, while eight others were unemployed – and three did not provide their status to the school. This leads to a published placement rate of 93.7 percent, i.e. 178/190.

You might see this as a great outlook, even for the 13th “greatest” diploma mill in the U.S. However, scroll down to the next section. You will note that 16 members of this class were in law school or university funded positions. If you were to remove these posts, then the placement rate would be a mere 85.3%, i.e. 162/190. Let that sink in, for a moment. Why in the hell would you enroll in this supposedly “elite” law school, for such pedestrian job prospects?!?!

Under Employment Type, the school claims that 22 men and women landed federal court clerkships. A total of 95 grads ended up in law firms of more than 500 attorneys. Roughly half of the students in this group found the type of work that they likely sought when they enrolled in this school.


Average Law Student Indebtedness: On March 11, 2014, Matt Leichter published an entry labeled “Record 14 Law Schools Didn’t Report 2013 Graduate Debt to U.S. News.” Cornell is the only Ivy League school that did not provide this number to USN&WR. It joins garbage in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion$ such as Cooley, Arizona Summit, Touro, Appalachian and La Verne, on this ignonimous list.

Leichter furnished the last reported average JD debt levels for these 14 toilets. The amount for Cornell University is listed as $140,000. Again, this is not the most recent cohort. Plus, the amount does not include debt from undergrad – and it does calculate interest while the student is enrolled.

Conclusion: This law school does not have enough integrity to list average law student indebtedness to a defunct magazine that ranks it in the top 14 institutions, every single year! Apparently, they don’t want prospective students to focus on debt figures. In sum, if you attend this school, then you NEED to land an article III clerkship and Biglaw – in order to have a shot at making this bet pay off for you.

Lastly, Biglaw positions tend to be fleeting. If you do not produce a big-ass book of business quickly, then you will be shown the door within a few years. Do you suppose that you will then be in high demand by other firms or government agencies?!?! Those employers will assume that you are a loser. As David Segal noted in his epic New York Times piece, “Is Law School a Losing Game?” - from January 8, 2011 - “law school is a pie-eating contest where first prize is more pie.”

By the way, you can watch a faculty pie-eating contest by the Cornell University Law School swine, via this hyperlink. As you can see, these pigs have no shame. They get paid up front, in full – while the students are left holding the gigantic bag of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt. Too bad someone didn’t stick an apple in their snouts – and shove a wooden stake up their portly asses.


  1. And the prize is more pie!

    Shameless pigs.

  2. Please note that Cornell Law School provides employment--or a revenue stream, if you will--to Brad Wendel, who is somewhat self-aware and a specialist in legal ethics. I wonder what he thinks about the legal ethics of the law school scam?

    1. I noticed that Wendel was in another Cornel pie-eating video. There's more than one.

  3. $60K for one year of law school. I almost threw up just now.

    1. Apparently the piglike professors at Cornell have stronger stomachs than we do.

  4. I don't know what's a sicker sight, the nasty ass floater in the toilet or the near $80K cost of attendance. No wonder they didn't have the balls to report their average student indebtedness.

  5. Guys.... Please remember that federal backed student loans are forgiven after 25 years.... the remaining balance is a tax issue. (private loans not included)....

    1. And your point is?

    2. 9:04 AM's point is "screw the taxpayer," that's the point! The end justifies the means! Go get yours, and leave someone else holding the bag! Yeah, that's the ticket!

      Meanwhile, the actual scammers get fatter and fatter while driving the bus off the cliff...

    3. Not this troll again. Even if the loans are forgiven after some time, here are the problems with that: (1) The debt is still hanging over the graduate. They will have a difficult time obtaining any type of credit and thus making any purchases. (2) The tax bill will be huge as the interest compounds and the tax bill is based off of the forgiven amount. (3) The forgiveness is not "free" as the tax payers are left holding the bill for the crappy education. (4) The trash pits tell students to borrow as much as they can because it will be forgiven. (5) The fact that students won't have to pay it back and the loans are given to everyone who applies encourages the trash pits to raise tuition year after year. The loans should absolutely be forgiven to free a generation burdened by debt. However, we also need to cut off the flow of money to the trash pits. There are too many lawyers and not enough jobs. There is no reason to allow free federal loans to go to the trash pits. It is time to stop the gravy train and the 4 hour "work" weeks of the professors making 6 figures. It is time to shut down the law school cartel.

    4. To 1:06's comment, I'd add that forgiveness ain't a given. It's a matter of public policy and is subject to the ever-changing winds of political sentiment. Not something to base a life-encumbering financial decision on.

  6. Folks do not let the Ivy League veneer of this school fool you. Cornell Law School is not considered an elite school by most in the legal profession. Sure, it is in the T14, but so is Georgetown, which is a diploma mill that provides a coin toss chance of success.

    Also, I know a lot of kids who attended Cornell for undergrad (they could not get into UPenn, Columbia, Princeton, Harvard or Yale). I have even visited Ithaca, which is a depressing college town. I believe Cornell has a high stat for student suicides. Living Winters in Ithaca is akin to doing a stint at Sing Sing prison.

    The kicker is this school charges more than Columbia and is in the middle of nowhere. As for Cornell lawyers, most that I have met are average. Nothing spectacular and for the price tag, you are better off passing on this school.

  7. Oh, I'm ah Rent seekin',
    Seeking Rents from DC.
    What I'm really sellin' is time,
    though it used to be free.
    Oh why read a book,
    when you can listen to me?
    I'm ah, rent-seekin',
    Give the Money to ME!

  8. hey, didn't that ambulance chaser from 'A Civil Action' go to Cornell Law?

  9. I've been waiting for this entry.

    Cornell won't save you if you have an aire of toiletry about you. Not today. You need the entire Elite package.

    There was a guy I recall in Bar Review who failed the CA bar and was back in NY for another Bar attempt there. You know once he failed that his firm in CA must've given him the Boot. And this was years ago.

    The guy was a schlubby white male who could easily be mistaken for your average sub-IQ Dallas Cowboys fan at the local bar. I suppose NY Jets would be analogous in this case.

    He had a look on him like passing NY would be his last hope.

    Just because someone attends an elite school doesn't mean they'll be accepted in elite circles. This guy? Now if he was some 5'7 / 5'8 bleached-blonde chick with a Ms. America Smile and the 'right attitude' ... maybe.

    Methinks his future was somewhat different, however.

    Even if you get accepted to this school, it'd be best to realize that you need the entire package of intangible goods along with it to succeed. And at those tuition prices, plus anything from undergrad, and with the average Biglaw Associate lasting 2-3 years, I'd think long and hard on anything less than a full ride.

  10. This school won't save you. Same goes for places like UT-Austin, UCLA, USC, Vandy. Georgetown is a coin flip and has been for some time.

    There's a huge (and I mean fucking huge) difference between HYS and these schools.

    1. You're absolutely right. Cornell won't save you.

      Nando says Top 8, I say Top 5.

  11. Just in case you haven't seen this piece of good news:

    Thomas Jefferson School of Law is on the ropes and is in negotiations to restructure its bond debt. And while they probably got their coffers filled with a fresh infusion of student loan capital, it's still not looking good for them.

    The school got a little miffed when Above The Law reported this.

    And if this isn't one of those canaries in the proverbial coal mine for students attending this institution, then I don't really know what is.


    1. Oh Dear...

      As I recall, this was the toilet that was caught falsifying employment statistics in 2012:


      And, in a very clever move, the politicians in black robes protected the school, of course:


    2. Profiled here:


    3. Hopefully, this will be the one that starts the ball rolling. All it's going to take is one of these cesspools to leave their bondholders holding a bag of crap, and we're going to see some real reforms come along.

      Blessed be the scambloggers, for they are truly the bringers of justice to a completely unjust system.

  12. Let’s take a look at some offerings from this overpriced toilet. We will start by perusing the LGBT Legal Clinic at Cornell Univer$ity.


    "Advocacy for Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Communities Clinic

    The Advocacy for LGBT Communities Clinic (LGBT Clinic) at Cornell Law School is one of the only law school clinics in the country dedicated to serving members of the LGBT community. Students in the clinic have an extraordinary opportunity to contribute to the struggle for LGBT equality by representing individual people in a variety of legal matters and undertaking advocacy projects in conjunction with LGBT organizations.

    Individual client cases in the LGBT Clinic have included:

    • Fighting to obtain asylum for LGBT immigrants facing deportation to countries where they would face beatings, rape, and even murder such as Jamaica, Uganda, and Ukraine.
    • Helping transgender women incarcerated in men's prisons obtain medical care, female clothing, and protection from sexual assault.
    • Filing adoption petitions for LGBT parents seeking a legal relationship with their children.
    • Assisting LGBT people in obtaining divorces and other family law relief.”

    Does anyone with an IQ above room temperature believe that serving in such a clinic is going to open up a bunch of solid career opportunities? If anything, this will marginalize you and limit your future job prospects.


    “International Human Rights Clinic

    The Cornell International Human Rights Clinic is devoted to working on a wide array of human rights projects, ranging from the development of materials for use in training foreign judges to filing briefs before U.S. and international courts. Clinic participants have filed both party and amicus briefs in U.S. Federal Court of Appeals, the European Court of Human Rights, U.S. Supreme Court, and have prepared reports for hearings before the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. Clinic students have also undertaken international field research. Through the International Human Rights Clinic, Cornell Law students have helped strengthen the rule of law and legal processes in communities throughout the world. The Clinic provides free legal research and assistance to international NGOs working on key human rights projects.”

    Who gives a damn if you tangentially help train foreign pigs/judges?!?! Also, how many Cornell JDs are going to file motions in international courts? By the way, only legal pinheads care about “strengthening the rule of law.” At least, these swine didn’t mention the word “passion” in this description – as that should be confined to the bedroom.

    1. I'd keep the clinics, and close down the rest of the law school.

  13. I know we all live in expensive times but $60k a year in tuition is financially destructive. To justify that price all of their graduates should be immediately employed earning six digit figure salaries.

    1. Keep raising that tuition Cornell, them professors got to eat too.

    2. Yeah, obviously by the pie-eating video. Which, btw, I found distasteful, not funny in the least, and off-putting.

      Typical fat-fuck professors with their inane quips and imbecilic students who find it all amusing.

    3. You're exactly right, that video wasn't the least bit funny. A bunch of out-of touch professors flaunting their idleness and greed.

      Suppose that Louis XVI were in a pie-eating contest right before the French Revolution. How many people, and what kind of people, would be laughing?

    4. You know, that's what I had in the back of my mind! Thanks for expressing it for me! The fat, bloated nobility of the French court. That's what the scene struck me as yet it didn't enter my conscious mind as to what it was I was reminded of.

  14. Nando's taking on the T14. It's on now.

    1. One by one, we work our way up to the most pretentious, corrupt, exploitive law school of all.

    2. I think you mean work your way down.

    3. Okay then, we're working our way down to Chicago, the worst law school of all. Where students are openly robbed on the streets, but even worse, are forced to pay for the most useless professor in the world.

  15. This has to be the most expensive law school in the country. That is just ridiculous.

  16. Why isn't the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau investigating law schools, particularly the for profit law schools.



    (May be behind a pay wall.)

    1. Wasn't that agency started by a corrupt law professor? There's your answer.

  17. There's no way to justify charging $60 Gs a year. Maybe, and I mean maaaaybe, Harvard or Yale can charge this. But even that's a stretch.

  18. Imagine going to a top 13 law school like Cornell and then making $50K a year. It happens.

  19. http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2014/09/lewis_clark_law_school_closes.html#incart_m-rpt-1

    Lewis and Clark to close clinic citing lower enrollment.

    1. From 735 to 609 (wow!!) and the school is still shuttering their clinic.

      I guess helping the poor and underprivileged gets to take a back seat to budget constraints.

      None of these noble professors, staff, and administration can volunteer time and money to keep the clinic operating?

      No one?

      Think of how thin they must be running to have to close down their clinic.

      And we all know the cause: Spend like drunken sailors on Gold-Plated Everything.

      It's all lip-service from the people in academia and it's all about getting that money.

      It's all about the money.


  20. Those cherry-picking professors are living in the past. Cornell might have made sense ten years ago, with much lower tuition and far more biglaw jobs in New York. But thanks to the unprecedented greed of the law school cartel, Cornell is now nothing but a pigpen.

  21. Remember, such noted alumni as Ann Coulter went there.

  22. As a law student at this supposedly world-renowned in$titution of “higher learning,” you can write onto something called the Legal Information Institute. From the commode’s description:


    “The liibulletin is a Cornell Law School electronic journal. Its editorial board comprises second- and third-year law students, who are responsible for every aspect of the journal's management, from selecting decisions for commentary to researching, writing, editing, and producing the journal content in HTML. From 1995-2004, it covered the New York Court of Appeals. Since 2004-05, the bulletin has covered cases currently before the US Supreme Court. Bulletin content is available on this site and by (free) email subscription.”

    Yes, membership on this publication will lead to excellent opportunities, right?!?! Even at a “top” law school, employers will see you as an also ran – if you are a secondary or tertiary journal.

    Now, take a look at the International Law Journal. Here is a partial listing:


    “About the ILJ


    The Law School will host the Cornell International Law Journal's Symposium: Never the Twain: Emerging U.S.-Chinese Business Law Relations, on Friday, February 21, 2014, from 9:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m.

    Founded in 1967, the Cornell International Law Journal (ILJ) is one of the oldest and most prominent international law journals in the United States. Three times a year, the Journal publishes scholarship that reflects the sweeping changes that are taking place in public and private international law. Each issue features articles by legal scholars, practitioners, and participants in international politics, as well as student-written notes.

    Law students perform all editorial functions for the Journal. The Editorial Board selects articles and notes for publication, communicates with the authors, edits manuscripts for substance and style, and manages the Journal’s financial and administrative affairs. Journal associates are the driving force behind the Journal and complete many sourcing, editing, and proving assignments, in addition to writing substantially publishable Student Notes on international law. Members are selected based on academic performance and writing ability.”

    This is not the Council on Foreign Relations, people. Hell, it is not even the Business Roundtable, i.e. a group of powerful, corporate leaders who actually shape events. Those men – and a few women – have an army of policyheads, politicians, and assorted other asswipes at their disposal. In contrast, this is a third rate, non peer-edited law review – with article submissions from academic piles of excrement.


  23. The only thing graduating from a "T14" law school tells me is that that guy/gal was really good at taking the Law School Admissions test.

    Who cares? Does scoring a -0 in Logic Games really mean that you are going to be a successful Biglaw corporate attorney? F--- no, it doesn't.

    If you graduate from a T14 school in the top half of your class, you'll likely get one of those Biglaw associate jobs, but then 2008 could happen… or the dude who graduated top of his class from some T2 school outperforms you as a professional…

    0L's, it's all a gamble. If you must go to law school, mitigate the debt to the lowest possible number, or pick another career. Law school should be considered first and foremost in terms of a debt-reward risk calculus, period!

    ~$300,000 in student loans at repayment is not worth a ~50% of getting a job that pays ~$145,000 a year and might last ~3 years. The math here really isn't hard.

  24. Thinker,

    You are on the money. If you run the numbers, a blue collar municipal worker will out earn, in total compensation, even someone that manages to graduate from law school debt free, and then lands a big law job for only a few years.

    For example, let's says you become a fireman in NYC. You join the department at 21 with no debt. For the first five years, let's say you earn a total of 300k. After the fifth year, you will make 90k working two full day shifts and then have the rest of the week off. That means you can work another job and bank an extra 20 to 40k or you can do some overtime and bump yourself up to 110k. This is bare minimum stuff. I know ambitious guys who run businesses on the side while doing these kinds of jobs (when you have a high guaranteed income with no debt, you have credit options other people do not).

    So by 28, the fireman has netted 520k minimum, and he or she has no debt.

    Let's assume you go to T14 AND you graduate debt free AND you land a big law job. I think we are talking far less than 1 percent of law grads. You still have earned no real income l from 18 yo 25. But fuck it, I will get even more unrealistic, I will say you even managed to earn 100 grand during this period. I wager there are less than 500 graduates a year that fit this profile.

    You start working big law right out of school, and you make 480 grand by the time you are 28. This means that someone 1) with a T14 law degree, 2) no student debt, 3) 3 years of big law after law school, and 4) 100 grand of amassed income during college and law school will only out earn someone with a GED and two years of community college by 70k from the ages of 18 to 28, and the assumptions here are ridiculously unrealistic. I have assumed that the blue collar employee held no job until joining the job and does the bear minimum in terms of work. I have also assumed every possible thing goes right for the law grad ( like I said, less than 5 pp people probably fit this profile unless they were rich to begin with).

    If you start factoring in pensions, guaranteed 8 week vacations, retirement at 45, real overtime pay, and SSDI comp after the job is done, then even the perfect law school outcome is going to have a hard time competing, forget about your average grad, even your average T14 grad.

    Moreover, someone who can get into a T14, CAN WITH OUT A DOUBT, barring a serious physical defect, obtain a big city municipal job in the trades, police, sanitation, or firefighers. In fact, such a person has a strong chance of getting a job in the more lucrative counties in California and NY, where a cop or fireman can earn 250k a year (with a pension of that caliber to boot). Remember, we are not talking about fucking toiletiers here.

    But that isn't prestigious or realistic. In fact, it's also risky. You see, it's more risky to spend 3 months studying for a test that cost 200 bucks to take, and if you fail, nothing happens, than it is to spend 3 years of your life and go 200k In debt for a less than 50 percent chance of getting a job that sucks in order to pay back the 200k debt. Lemming logic...

  25. I live in upstate, NY and have not met one practicing lawyer from Cornell in my city. Most are from the cesspools Syracuse and Buffalo and yet Ithaca is not far from here. One might attempt to argue maybe all the Cornell Alumni are practicing in NYC and that is the focus of Cornell's job placement office. But if that is the case, they are competing against Columbia, NYU, and even Harvard grads wanting to make it big on Wall Street firms. So the fact is Cornell is just another trap school.

  26. The only people going to this school are kids whose parents write a check for tuition like I drop a quarter into a Donkey Kong machine, Carlton Banks minority types whose parents pay for their tuition and they will never be more than legal aid mouthpieces or court appointed work solos, connected kids whose grandparents went there back when it mattered and who will always have a job, and a few blue collar morons who can take tests well and got one of the few spots where the above dont apply who will likely end up law school lecturers at 4th tier crappers when they realize they cant practice law and need to spew their left wing idealism.

    You can basically apply this scenario to most any law school, especially a T-14.

  27. Can we start discussing the real issue that, at these numbers, even if you get the brass ring, unless your parents are rich, you are still fucked?

    Less than 10 percent of the 40000 grads that graduate will ever get a job that gives them a SHIT at paying that kind of debt load. The problem is that only 5 percent of those 10 percent will last long enough in those jobs to pay it off. This is fucking stupid even if you have special snow flake syndrome because even if you win, you are still fucked.

    1. That's exactly right. IBR / PAYE is nothing but controlled bankruptcy - with a Tax Bomb at the end when you are heading into retirement and well-past your peak earning years.

      This is a bargain / good idea how??

      The above is 100% correct, so no need to rehash. Law as a career choice works for about 5% or less of the people who choose to enter it.

      No, I'm not talking about the idiot Boomers or anyone outside of the last 3-5 years prior to the current insane tuition bubble, etc. I'm talking about that and today, going forward.

      With recent and current numbers, the formula, simply, no longer works for all but maybe 5%.

      Exactly right.

  28. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLT3nUuiHbM

  29. Law School Transparency lists the total debt at $297,190 – for students who incur the full cost of admission and living expenses! For such an amount, you could purchase a beautiful, large home in most parts of the country.


    For those who receive a 50% scholarship, the debt total would reach $188,454 – for three years of “legal education” at Cornell Univer$ity. Plus, you figure that relatively few students get such a generous offer from the pigs.

    LST estimates total law student debt of $242,824 for those on a 25% scholarship. Hell, students on full scholarship would still incur $79,741 in loans – based on this source. Yet, the pigs last listed this debt average at $140,000 to US “News” & World Report.


    By the way, even this commode is apparently feeling the effects of the overall plunge in law school applications. Look at the graph labeled “Entering Class Admissions Data.” In Fall 2011, 204 matriculants comprised the first year class. For that cohort, the 25th percentile LSAT score was 166, with a median of 168, and a 75th percentile score of 169.

    For the entering Fall 2013 class, there were fewer members, i.e. 193. The 25th percentile LSAT score was 165, whereas a result of 167 placed a first year student in the 50th percentile at Cornell. This latter figure also is listed as the 75th percentile score.

    How many of these students will land article III clerkships, enter Biglaw practice for a few years – and then get unceremoniously dumped on their ass?!?! Remember, this area can be lucrative but it is extremely competitive. The pigs at the top of these firms expect and demand that junior associates start bringing in BIG cases and clients, on their own quickly.

    Also, once a Biglaw attorney with a few years of experience is tossed out, he is not a real attractive option for other firms or government agencies. He will be seen as a loser who “didn’t have what it takes” to succeed. Plus, it’s not as though a transactional lawyer is going to suddenly become a feisty litigator, representing scum defendants or women seeking to punish their ex-husbands in ugly, drawn-out cases. Don’t forget the effects of burnout, either.



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