Tuesday, October 14, 2014

TTTT Smells of Desperation: Fourth Tier Elon University School of Law to Reduce Overall Tuition by $14K


The TTTT AnnouncemenTTTT: On October 8, 2014, the ABA-accredited trash pit released a press release labeled “Elon Law announces groundbreaking new model for legal education.” Take a look at this nonsense:

“In keeping with the school's original vision to be a pioneering "law school with a difference," the new curriculum will be highly experiential, personalized and professionally connected – hallmarks of Elon University's nationally recognized programs of engaged learning. With this new program, Elon Law will provide leadership for the major changes taking place in legal education.

Among the highlights of Elon Law’s new program are the following:

• The first and only law school to ensure that all students benefit from full-time, faculty-directed residencies in the practice of law
Experiential learning integrated throughout the curriculum, representing more than 20 percent of the program and far exceeding the new ABA experiential learning requirements
• Students will begin their studies with an introductory program focused on legal analysis, writing and communication, and leadership and professionalism
• Each student will be assigned a four-person professional advising team: a faculty adviser, a working attorney mentor (preceptor), an executive coach and a career consultant
• In a new seven-trimester schedule, students will complete their studies in December, allowing them to take the February bar exam and begin law practice in the spring
• Total tuition for the entering Class of 2015 will be lowered nearly $14,000 from the current level, with a guaranteed fixed cost for the entire program of study for the members of the entering class[.]” [Emphasis in original]

Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if these bitches and hags threw in a free pillowtop, king mattress and the Sunday Ticket to each moron who enrolls in this dung heap. They might need to sweeten the pot further, in order to attract more applicants.

Other Coverage: The ABA Journal published a Mark Hansen piece entitled “Elon Law to cut total tuition by $14K and offer law degree in 2.5 years for all” – on October 9, 2014. Check out this opening:

“Elon University School of Law has announced the creation of a new curriculum that represents what the school is calling a groundbreaking new model for legal education.

The new curriculum, announced in press release Thursday, will be the nation’s first standard JD program lasting less than three years, Luke Bierman, dean of the Greensboro, N.C., law school says.

It will also be the first to require that all students participate in a full-time, faculty-directed residency in the practice of law and the first to offer all first-year students a lab experience with practicing attorneys, Bierman says.

The curriculum, which will begin with the class of 2015, will be based heavily on experiential learning, which will account for about 20 percent of the program, far exceeding the six-credit hour experiential learning requirement in the ABA Standards and Rules of Procedure for Approval of Law Schools.

The program will also operate on a seven-trimester (or 2½-year) schedule, which will allow students to graduate in December, take the bar exam in February and begin practicing in the spring.

The school will also lower its tuition, which now totals about $114,000 over three years, by about $14,000 for the entire program of study, and guarantee that the cost won’t go up for the class of 2015.

“What we’ve essentially done with this program is reverse-engineer the traditional model of legal education,” [Ass-Clown] Bierman says.” [Emphasis mine]

Who else laughed their ass off, when reading that this accelaraTTTTed program will permit victims to “take the bar exam in February and begin practicing in spring”?!?! What decent firms want to hire these grads?


Ranking: According to the defunct magazine known as US “News” & World Report, Elon Univer$iTTTTy $chool of Law is rated as a fourth tier trash pit. What a great accomplishment, huh?!?!


Pathetic Legal Job Placement: On April 10, 2013, Dan Filler posted a Faculty Lounge entry entitled “New Law School Rankings: Employment Data Cleaned Of School Funded Jobs.” This article is based off of each ABA-accredited diploma mill’s Class of 2012 ABA Employment Report.

As the text and title make clear, the figures pertain to JD Required positions that are full-time, long term - and exclude law school funded jobs. Under these measures, Elon University Sewer of Law placed 50.89 percent of its grads in such positions. Keep in mind that these are the employment opportunities that one seeks when applying to law school. By the way, this figure was good enough for 129th “best” among the 201 toilets listed. Yes, what great outcomes, right?!?!

Conclusion: The foul pigs at Elon University Sewer of Law are desperate for more victims. They need more asses in seats, in order to stay in operation. If you are still considering this rathole, then you should have your head examined. After all, you will not be served well by incurring an additional $115K-$145K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a TTTT law degree. Pull your head out of your colon, and do not even contemplate attending this pile of waste.


  1. Let me quickly correct you: Elon's FT/LT JD-Required placement currently stands at 32%. Filler's data is at least 18-months old. The updated figure for the class of 2013 is much worse.


    The worst part about this will be the inevitable circle-jerk when the 32% increases. As terrible as this is—statistically less favorable than risking $100K at a casino—that 32% realistically only has one direction to go.

    I can hear the post hoc ergo propter hoc bullshit already.

  2. Business sucks sale! lol. It could not happen to a nicer bunch of used car salespeople/law deans and law professors. When the law graduate outcomes are so bleak, I guess fewer people are willing to subsidize law professors teaching class maybe three hours a week and pulling down a six figure salary. Law schools make people debt slaves that enter into a really shitty employment market for lawyers.

  3. All fourth tier schools should do this country a favor and just close their doors for good. The number of jobless, indentured graduates being churned out of these places far exceeds the number of "success" stories they hype.

    A truly "innovative" law program would have its graduates not only ready to practice, but leave them in a position capable of servicing a manageable debt load. Graduating $14K less in the hole doesn't amount to shit when the overall cost of attendance still leaves a graduate $100+K in debt in a horrible job market. In fact, a forbearance on that kind of principal can easily end up putting $14K of interest on top of one's balance over the life of your loans.

    Think bottom line, people. It's still nowhere near worth it.

    1. Only the top 50 schools should remain open. Close the rest.

    2. Even 50 schools is too much. We really don't need more than 14, maybe 20 at most.

      There just aren't enough jobs for even 50 law schools worth of graduates.

  4. Nobody cares.

    As commented in your previous entry, prestige of the law school is all that matters on a resume. Trimesters? No thank you! It's difficult enough with the standard semester format.

    All of this is window dressing to attract Lemmings. The sad part is that for those who think this is a great deal, all their extra work and toil will amount to less than nothing due to the lack of prestige of this toilet.

    In sum, they will have actually done more work and jumped through far more hoops - all for less than nothing because the debt will remain as well as all the lost time they could've been pursuing other better paths.

    This is, IMO, typical of schools in general, including MBAs. More work for less. The students at the better schools do practically nothing and have a much easier time. Doesn't matter because they'll have the right name on their resume when they graduate and that is what matters.

  5. Oh.. and Nando's exactly right. Having the students sit for the Feb. bar exam isn't doing them any favors. That exam is typically harder and covers different subjects commonly not on the standard July administration. Here again, more work for less. The examiners typically make the Feb. exam harder and you'll be sitting in Bar Review with a lot of unhappy people, the majority of whom failed the July exam.

    Sounds real good..

    1. And it's not like firms are going to change their hiring schedule to coincide with this 4T school's new graduation dates. These kids (the minority that will actually be employed) will be sitting around twiddling their thumbs for a half a year as kids at schools with typical schedules graduate and take the bar and the typical hiring season occurs.

    2. Exactly. They won't. Everything in law is lock-step. This is a slick con by the school. 2 and 1/2 years, they also get their money quicker.

      Call me cynical but this rankles my hide. They'll work these Lemmings to death in Trimesters and clinics and advise them to death, making them think they're accomplishing something because of all the hard work, but it's merely a psychological ploy.

      Scammy. Very, very scammy.

    3. 2:34: good point about firms not changing schedule to hire these poor suckers. To that point, I recommend that prospectives request a list of all firms that came to elon in fall of 2014 to recruit and how many summer offers were made by such firms. Bet it both are very small numbers. And they can only include paying jobs not unpaid internships.

  6. the $14K savings is a red herring.

    By shortening the JD (Joke Degree) program to 2 1/2 years, Elon will be graduating more classes in a 10 year period than if the program was a 3 year one. By graduating more classes, Elon more than recoups the $14K savings per student. This is a long-term con, which is tailored for imbeciles who could only gain admission into a 4th tier cesspool.

  7. Have a look at this:


    In the right margin, the "COMPARABLE SCHOOLS" listed are Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. Who decided that those were in any way comparable to this dunghill?

    Old Guy

    1. ^ They were probably joking. They also said that Yale Law School was "comparable" to Dartmouth - which doesn't even have a law school.

    2. I used Law School Transparency to compare Elon law school to Stanford (The least prestigious of the three) in order to see if they are in fact comparable. They are not.
      (A) Stanford's 25th percentile LSAT scores are 16 points higher than Elon's 75th percentile LSAT scores.
      (B) 87.6% of Stanford graduates are employed in real bar passage requiring jobs (2.6% employed by Stanford though). On the other hand 32% of Elon grads have such jobs. Also 3.6% of Stanford graduates are unemployed or underemployed but 43.4% of Elon grads are.
      (C) No one gets a Federal Clerkship from Elon but 29.4% of Stanford grads do. Also 48.5% of Stanford grads get jobs with large firms but only 1.6% of Elon grads do.
      (D) The costs are comparable. Stanford is more expensive.

      Just for fun I also compared it to our esteemed host's alma mater, Third Tier Drake. It compared more easily.
      (A) Drake's Average LSAT score is the same as Elon's 75 percentile LSAT score.
      (B) Drake has 54.3% employment and 21% underemployment
      (C) Drake has 2.2% of their grads in Federal Clerkships but only 0.7% of their grads with large firms
      (D) The costs are comparable Elon is more expensive.

  8. Class of 2017 student body information is coming out, and many of the law schools outside of the vaunted "T20" are seeing their GPA & LSAT medians/75ths plunge, indicating or at least suggesting A. a rapidly declining body of applicants, which is good, but not-so-good is B. less qualified students being admitted to schools and eventually, the Bar. What a disaster.

    1. Look at dumps like Thomas Jefferson, which has a median LSAT in the mid 140s and something like a 55% bar passage rate. That means almost half of their graduating class will never even qualify for an attorney job. A lot of these similar 4T schools have bar passage rates in the 60 and 70 percent range. Many of these poor fools will simply never pass the bar.

    2. And this… This seems to be the huge difference between law school and a professional program such as, say, medicine.

      Medical schools have high standards of admissions and produce as many doctors as society needs.

      Law school, on the other hand, seems to be a continuation of the liberal arts/undergrad mindset that education has an intrinsic value and that everybody should have access to it.

      Aaaaaaand look where it got us.

    3. Passing the bar isn't the issue, BarBri will prepare anyone even without any law school to pass the bar exam. It's a very low barrier we are talking about here.

      The real issue is it's highly unlikely these people will get jobs. Even document review these days is insanely competitive. I know former big law lawyers that can't even get onto doc review, and that boggles my mind.

      For law school to make a lick of sense, the worst jobs that nobody even wants should at least have to pay people and struggle to fill seats.

    4. Anon. 10:55, a lot of these 3T and 4T schools have mandatory, for credit bar review classes 3L year (in addition to Barbri/themis/kaplan whatever) and 30-50% of their students are still failing.

  9. Here's a quick rule of thumb for anyone considering law school: request a list of all firms that conducted on campus interviews the previous year and request the percentage of students who received paying offers. If the percentage of students receiving offers is less than 75% don't go.

    Also take the list of firms and research the first year salary for its associates. If that first year salary is less than the amount of debt you expect to have, don't count working at that firm as an economically viable option and subtract any offers that this firm made during on campus interviews from the percentage of students who got offers.

    Using this simple method will show how few opportunities are really out there for the vast majority of law grads.

  10. It is a sleight-of-hand, like a magician's card trick.

    Elon shows some interesting cards-- tuition cuts, mandatory internship, and 2 1/2 year program-- and tells a story about them. (groundbreaking! pioneering! visionary! engaged!). That is so nobody notices that Elon is loading up the deck with more scam--- namely, an increase in class size.

    Most law schools these days are reducing class size, though inadequately and belatedly. Recently-accredited Elon, with its miserable 150 median LSAT and its abominable placement record, has the nerve to actually increase the number of kids it is destroying, and the further nerve to praise itself as visionary.

    1. This law school fails to address the biggest problem which is employment. If there are few worthwhile jobs in the legal profession, then pursuing law as a career is a risky endeavor. If this school wants to brag, let's see the real employment numbers!

  11. Elon is a shithole. It relies on bullshit terms like 'innovative' to try and get more lemmings. Listen, Elon dipshits. Calling your programs innovative doesn't make them so.

  12. The bean counters at Elon finally figured a way to get 3 years worth of tuition quicker (by employing the "college" for profit model of trimesters) in 2.5 years and increase their graduating sizes by lining up more customers at the door. And they call this "groundbreaking" and "pioneering?" It's called, there is more than one way to skin a cat or shake down a lemming. Sadly many lemmings who attend this dump will extol this very "visionary" model.

  13. As a legal employer, I would not hire an Elon graduate, and finishing a law degree in 2 1/2 years is unremarkable. Elon's marketing techniques are akin to the marketing geniuses behind the "8 Minute Abs Workout." If anything, it comes off as a cheap shortcut offered by a school which has a terrible reputation.

    I invite Elon to produce a list of law firms that are willing to adjust its on-campus interviewing schedules to accommodate these "pushed out the door in a hurry" grads.

    NYC Hiring Partner

    1. The Angry AccountantOctober 18, 2014 at 10:41 PM

      I am glad you are back. The same story is true with these Masters of Taxation degrees for my field of accounting. Accounting firms dont give a shit about accelerated programs, they want people who can hot the ground running once hired and brong in business. That is the professional world and boy, I learned that lesson fast.

  14. WOW ! The law of natural correction.... if the government wont reform the system then leave it to the people. Let's hope more law schools follow and maybe this movement will be used as an example of how our overall educational system needs reform .... Good job guys !!!

  15. How can faculty direct a residency? They've probably never practiced law themselves.

    1. They make the students do inane busy work like writing reports or reflection papers, and perhaps hold discussion sessions where students talk about their work - they don't actually have hands on contact.

  16. http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2014/10/09/elon-law-to-reduce-cost-length-of-law-school-while.html

    On October 9, 2014, the Triad Business Journal published an Owen Covington piece entitled “Elon Law to reduce cost, length of law school while boosting real-world experience.” Look at this segment:

    “And within its overhauled curriculum, Elon Law is further integrating experiential education that will put students in law practices and side-by-side with practicing attorneys during the semester. Key to that plan is a new system of full-time, faculty directed residencies in the practice of law completed during the academic year.

    The changes are announced just four months after the school welcomed a new dean, Luke Bierman, who was integral in increasing experiential education opportunities at Northeastern University School of Law, where he had been associate dean of experiential education.

    Bierman said when the school was founded 10 years ago, "it really was intended to not just be another law school that looked like other law schools."

    With these changes, Elon Law will be a "vanguard," Bierman said. "We are setting the standard."
    The roots for the changes started with a strategic plan laid out two years ago, and planning began in earnest after Bierman was announced as the school's next dean in January.”

    As others have noted, law firms – and especially Biglaw pigs – are not going to alter their hiring timelines and practices to match the February bar exam for TTTT graduates. By the way, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to open a garbage heap in the same state as Duke, UNC and Wake Forest?!?! Actually, the “law professors” and administrators only took themselves into consideration. After all, the students are a mere means to an end.

    Also, no one gives a damn about “experiential learning” at a fourth tier trash pit. Law firms and non-legal employers care about the name brand of the school you attended. They rely on this because it is easier to “show” that they hired smart applicants. Again, it doesn’t matter if you gain some hands on experience, if you are never going to practice law.

    1. Maybe the whole point of this experiential learning is to prepare students to hang out a shingle. They aren't going to get jobs. And I'll bet the law firm hiring schedule didn't need to be considered much since none of them hire from elon.

      I think the message this should send to the lemmings is that if they go to this school they WON'T get a job but might be able to get some experience while in school at elon that the suckers at Campbell (another TTTT in the state) who won't get.

    2. But Campbell has a great trial ad program.

  17. seton hall law class,size down about 200 students.

  18. What if Indiana Tech's law school class size drops?

  19. http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+5

    Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Elon Univer$iTTTTy JD Class of 2013 who incurred debt for law school - as $108,290. Hell, 89% of this garbage heap’s 2013 cohort took on such toxic debt. Remember that this figure does not include undergraduate debt – and also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.



    Elon Law School is considered a Somewhat Competitive law school, which accepts only 56% of its applicants. Comparatively, Elon is Higher than the average cost for law school.”

    As you can see, the pile of waste admitted more than half of its applicants for this cohort. Now, look at the numbers below:

    “Class of 2018

    Applications: 888
    Offers: 495 (55.74%)
    Matriculated: 99 (11.1%)

    25% GPA: 280
    Median GPA: 3.16
    75% GPA: 348

    25% LSAT: 150
    Median LSAT: 155
    75% LSAT: 158”

    Yes, these are truly impressive figures, right?!?! Again, does anyone see Biglaw firms showing up to this toilet’s OCI events? I’m pretty damn sure that these law offices are not going to alter their hiring schedule, to match the expedited JD program at a TTTT. After all, these students did not secure summer clerk positions with these firms, after their first year of law school.



    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The Elon Law School class of 2013 had an employment rate of 76% with 1% pursuing an additional degree.”

    Who the hell wants to incur such heavy amounts of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for such weak-ass outcomes?!?! If you are still considering law school – including this foul-smelling commode – then you don’t follow the evidence. Yet, you want to be a lawyer. For instance, the following are irrefutable facts: (a) the U.S. legal job market is GLUTTED and shrinking; (b) tuition is too damn high; and (c) automation, LPOs, LegalZoom, and outsourcing will continue to take a further toll on this “profession.”

  20. http://www.elon.edu/e-web/law/admissions/cost.xhtml

    Tuition: For the 2014-2015 school year, full-time students will be ass-raped to the tune of $37,924. What a great deal for a FOURTH TIER “legal education,” right?!?! Why don’t the bastards and jackals make this rate an even $40K per year?!

    “Other estimated expenses:
    Housing - $7,500
    Food - $5,000
    Utilities - $1,300
    Personal - $3,200
    Transportation - $3,500
    Health Insurance - $2,668*
    Rental Insurance - $300
    Books and Supplies - $1,750
    Parking - $500

    Total of other estimated expenses: $25,718

    *Approximate cost of the university’s student illness plan for 2014-15. Students may submit proof of other comparable coverage, in which case this charge will be removed from their student accounts; otherwise, students will be enrolled in the insurance plan, and the charge will be automatically billed to the student’s account. The waiver information was sent to students from studentaffairs@elon.edu and is available on the Elon Law website.”

    Who the hell wouldn’t want to spent such large sums of borrowed money for a TTTT law degree?!?! Who cares about job prospects from this stink pit, when you can feel the saTTTTisfacTTTTion of staring at your law degree all day? In the final analysis, only a waterhead would consider attending this pile of excrement.

    1. I love the mandatory Elon brand health insurance. Classy. $500 for academic year parking sounds outrageous too.

  21. I attended Michigan State University Detroit College of Law as a transfer from Cooley. Most (but not all) students in these schools know that White Shoe firms are not hiring them. I graduated in 1999 and most of my classmates from these schools have law careers as District Attorneys, solo practitioners, and Public Defenders. Some have gone into other areas. Nontheless, I concurr witn the above appellations about these degrees being not economically viable. The loans are insane.


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