Sunday, November 2, 2014

TTTT Smells of Desperation: Ave Maria School of Law Will Hand Out 50 Scholarships to Those With a Pulse

Dripping in Desperation: On October 30, 2014, the Ave Herald published a story entitled “Ave Maria Law School Launches Major Initiative to Attract Better Students.” From the opening:

“The Ave Maria School of Law is making a major push to raise the caliber of students entering the school in the fall of 2015.

Law School President and Dean Kevin Cieply said Thursday that thanks to funding from school founder Tom Monaghan, the school is offering 50 three-year, full-tuition scholarships to students who meet criteria for both academic achievement and faithfulness to the Catholic Church.

"We want to increase our academic standards," Mr. Cieply said in an interview, "and reverse a trend" of lower scores on the LSAT examination.

To be eligible for the scholarship, which also includes a stipend for living expenses in the first year, college seniors need to have a minimum score of 150 on the LSAT, a grade point average of at least 3.0, and either graduate from one of the 20 schools included in the Cardinal Newman Society’s Guide to Choosing a Catholic College or be involved with the Catholic Church as FOCUS missionaries, members of Opus Dei or members of the Christ the King Parish at Domino's Farms in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Mr. Cieply said that the law school has no affiliation with Opus Dei, but that Mr. Monaghan included them in an effort to "target groups that are particularly devoted to the Church and bring high fidelity to Catholic teaching."

The first word of the scholarship program, which is estimated to cost about $3 million a year, came Wednesday when Mr. Monaghan met with about 40 seniors at Thomas Aquinas College (TAC) in California, which is one of the schools listed in the Newman Guide.” [Emphasis mine]

In other words, the commode is willing to give scholarships to those with a pulse – in an attempt to land better students and hopefully increase it fourth tier ranking. That speaks volumes about the “quality” of current pupils/victims. Now, scroll down to this conclusion:

“In addition to the scholarship program, Mr. Cieply also said that the law school is offering a three and a-half day "pre-law program" on its campus in Naples for students considering attending law school. For students that are accepted, the law school will pay for their transportation to Naples and accommodation.

"Overall, it's an aggressive program," Mr. Cieply said. "We're saying to these students, 'Maybe you should consider law school.'" [Emphasis mine]

As you can see, the Domino’s Pizza School of Law is desperate for asses in seats. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the pigs pay for the first and last month’s rent on an apartment for these “lucky” students. Also, does anyone else see that the mindset of these sick swine is not much different from child molesters or drug dealers prowling elementary schools for their next potential victim?

Other Coverage: On October 31, 2014, JDU denizen “sfgiantsfan” started a thread labeled “Full ride at Ave Maria to small liberal arts SoCal school grads.” User “inindiana” furnished this brilliant response, on November 1, 2014 at 1:15 pm:

“Ave Maria as a concept has always been little more than Monaghan's vanity project. There are plenty of Catholic colleges and universities in the country upon which he could've bestowed his millions, but none were good enough for him. He had to be the pizza king who started a university from scratch. Fine, it's his money, he can do with it whatever he damn well pleases and be as vainglorious as he wants.

But. . . the problem with Ave Maria (and Thomas Aquinas and others like them)is that it competes for a relatively small pool of hardcore Reaganites, trads, anti-modernists, or whatever. Even within that narrow group, some of those with high enough grades and SATs would likely opt for Georgetown or Notre Dame because employers and grad schools have at least heard of those places, even if the brand of Catholicism followed at those schools is considered too ecumenical/modernist/nontrad or whatever else it is that angers them. So Ave Maria and others like it wind up being either verrrry small in enrollment (in which case the school's financial situation is often precarious or reliant upon Santa Tom) or they have to let in the less academically inclined in order to get enough bodies in the seats. It's the same dilemma any lower ranked law school has to deal with, except in Monaghan's case there are more icons and crucifixes around.” [Emphasis mine]

In a just world, these bitches and hags would have a giant crucifix shoved up their asses. In the event that these vampires put up a fight, make sure to keep some garlic bread handy – even if it’s from Domino’s.

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, the Ave Maria Sewer of Law remains a fourth tier pile of trash. Yes, what a fantastic in$TTTTiTTTTuTTTTion, huh?!?! Who the hell wouldn’t want to attend such a glorious law school?!

Average Law Student Indebtedness: US “News” lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Ave Maria Law Class of 2013 who incurred debt for law school - as $131,184. Fully 85% of this cesspool’s 2013 cohort took on such toxic debt. Keep in mind that this amount does not include undergraduate debt – and also does not take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.

Conclusion: This school is in desperation mode, in terms of trying to bolster its excrementitious reputation. The toilet has an archconservative, rich benefactor who is willing to piss away large portions of his wealth on this dump. Thomas Monaghan wants his name associated with a decent law school. However, no institution of “higher education” can attain any level of “prestige” by offering full-tuition scholarships – for the entire three year period – to kids who manage a 3.0 undergraduate GPA and 150 LSAT score.

Frankly, these are weak-ass numbers that can be reached by pretty much anyone who puts in some effort. Wasting three years of your prime wage-earning period is idiotic. Instead of attending a fourth tier dung heap, perform your current job at a high level – and increase your chances of becoming a manager. We are not talking about a deep dish pizza and a 2 liter of soda, moron. YOUR financial future is at stake. Walk away from this TTTT offer.


  1. By the way, the 20 recommended Catholic undergrad schools do NOT include Notre Dame, Boston College, Holy Cross or Fordham. Seems like they are looking for less intelligent Catholics.

  2. Nando, how is it that I never heard of this law school before? I thought I was up on all the trash heaps out there!

  3. Is that Idaho senator Larry Craig in the stall?

  4. That 150 minimum LSAT is much too low. If Monaghan really wants to attract good students, it should be more like 158, while hoping for more applicants in the 160-162 range.

    I could see his program attracting students who couldn't quite get into Georgetown or Notre Dame, or who don't want to borrow sticker at those places. However, it would be far more effective simply to offer full tuition for Opus Dei members or Thomas Aquinas graduates to attend a real law school.

  5. 150 should not earn a full scholarship. Oh that's right. Ave maria is not a real law school.

  6. If you want to be a faithful Catholic, pick a career that will allow you to support your damn family. The law IS NOT ONE OF THEM!

  7. Papa John's is better. For that matter Pizza Hut is better.

  8. Oh how the mighty have fallen. A few years ago, these schools could have expected to have plenty of applicants to choose from. Now they're all offering full scholarships to just about anyone who actually showed up for class in undergrad. Look at the most recent OTLSS article.

  9. According to this site there are 28 Catholic law schools in the United States. There are options for every geographical region and from T1-T4

    Even if you were a devout Catholic, there are so many better options - why on earth would you go here? There is practically no alumni network since it's a new school, it's in a state with a glutted job market, and it's T4.

    It's not even the only T4 Catholic law school in Florida (Barry). That's funny and sad.

    1. Don't forget St. Thomas University in Miami, another dump pretending to be Catholic.

    2. I notice that Barry requires a 165 LSAT and a 3.3 GPA for a full tuition scholarship. So Ave Maria is far less selective than Barry, not a good position to be in.

  10. Ave Maria Law School is a certified shithole.

  11. The Catholic Church has so much money and fucking property, why don't they make all these schools free of charge to attend?

    1. Well all those lawsuits have been very expensive to settle . . .

    2. And that is why religion today has become a scam. The Catholic Church as well as the Mormons have substantial money and assets and keep asking their poor members for more.


  12. If anyone is crazy enough to attend a law school other than one ranked in the top 10 or so in this terrible job market, getting a full-tuition scholarship is an absolute must. Chances are good that a graduate from this school will be unable to land a good job upon graduation, so graduating with *ZERO* educational debt should be an applicant's highest priority.

    This could actually be a better deal (for the right applicant) than paying full fare at a trap school. Law is still a shit business, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. However, entering the profession with little to no debt can mitigate a lot of hardship.


    On October 31, 2014, something called the California Catholic Daily posted a story labeled “Ave Maria’s Tom Monaghan makes extraordinary offer to TAC seniors.” The author is the administrator of that rag. Look at this portion below:

    “The following comes from an Oct. 30 release from Thomas Aquinas College.

    On Wednesday afternoon Thomas Monaghan, the onetime owner of Domino’s Pizza and the founder of Ave Maria University, visited Thomas Aquinas College to make an extraordinary offer to members of the Senior Class: free tuition at the Ave Maria School of Law for all three years of their legal education.

    The offer is part of Mr. Monaghan’s effort to make Ave Maria the preferred law school for the nation’s top Catholic lawyers. “We are planning on giving a full ride next fall to 50 students, primarily students from Newman Guide schools,” he said. “And I would love to have all 50 come from this school, because I think it’s the finest Catholic school in the country, and you guys have the perfect background for law school.” To take advantage of the offer, students would first need to gain admission to Ave Maria and meet all the necessary requirements.

    At a lunchtime gathering in the College’s newest classroom building, St. Gladys Hall — complete with Domino’s Pizza — Mr. Monaghan discussed the details of his generous scholarship program with some 40 students. “I’m excited to be here,” he began. “Everywhere I go, when I’m asked about Catholic higher education, I always mention TAC because I think it’s the best Catholic college in the country. The quality of its spirituality and academics are second to none.”

    He then quickly added, “Now the best Catholic university in the country is Ave Maria!”

    Isn’t it sad to see that such a generous offer only drew about 40 college students? Hell, the bastards even had free pizza – in order to attract more lemmings. And they still couldn’t get a bigger crowd to their meeting. That is embarrassing. Make sure to cram a few empty Domino’s Pizza boxes up your ass next time, Tom.

    The comments are hilarious. For example, “FRED” wrote the following response on November 1, 2014 at 5:16 am:

    “This is a wonderful and amazing offer !

    Ave Maria School of Law is one of the nation’s most outstanding law schools, according to The Princeton Review 2014).

    The education services company features the school in the new 2015 edition of its annual book, “The Best 169 Law Schools.”

    Yes, the commode is among prestigious company, right?!?! I suspect that this - as well as some of the other idiotic remarks - came from Ave Maria Law Sewer employees, current students, or paid shills. After all, no one else gives one damn about the law school profiles listed in the Princeton Review.

  14. I like how they admit that they are trying to attract better students. By doing so, they are tacitly admitting that their current student body is full of sub-par idiots. If (heaven forbid) I was a rising 2L or 3L, I would be pissed. Then again, the subtlety of this insult is probably lost on anyone stupid enough to attend this school. And any shame and stigma associated with this new scarlet letter will be lost in the general shame and stigma of going through life with a degree from this institution.

    1. It's an interesting dynamic, one that is sometimes seen in PhD programs - the first class students are all attending on full scholarships, and the second class dolts are paying full freight to subsidize them.

  15. Ave Maria. Et in hora mortis nostrae.

    Old Guy

  16. So this god-bothering shitheel is behind the Domino's pizza company?

    I'd never noticed the connection before, but "Domino" in Latin means 'For the Lord'.

    Old Guy

  17. Listen lemmings, higher education is a total scam.

    I have a friend who graduated high school at 18 and did 4 years in the Navy and socked away a nice chunk of change there. He got out and became a UPS driver. Now, 7 years into his career at UPS he is some kind of a route manager and is making $104k/yr. Yes, he is on his feet all day in a warehouse or making deliveries. But no college degree, no debt.

    I have another friend who graduated high school, played golf his whole life, and is a caddy in Florida half the year and a caddy in NY in the spring/summer. He makes roughly $75k in his caddying jobs. Additionally, he gives golf lessons on the side. Again- no college degree, no debt.

    Last anecdotal example: My other friend went to work at McDonald's right out of high school full-time (worked part-time junior/senior year). He is now a store manager at McDonald's making $50k with benefits and bonuses. No college degree, no debt.

    However, I have numerous friends who went to film school, liberal arts college and/or law school and are drowning in student loan debt making peanuts in doc review or jobs they don't even need a high school degree for. I know a kid who went to film school in NYC for $40k/yr and he has loans out the ass living in LA working in a starbucks. It's unreal.

    I myself went to law school. Thankfully I had a scholarship that paid for half of it and I was able to get a legal job because of my connections. I'd be struggling terribly if I didn't have family support. My friend at UPS makes more than me and I spent all this time and money in college/law school.

    So again, higher education is a total scam. Unless you get into a top 10 law school (although Nando has shown that's dicey even for Cornell/Virginia grads), don't even consider going to law school. The winning move is to not even play in the first place. You shouldn't even go to college unless your parents are paying for it (no loans in your name) and/or you get into a top program for a hard science or some vocational training.

    1. I don't care what anyone says. I'm going to borrow the full cost of attending Virginia. I figure I have a good chance of becoming a SCOTUS clerk and then a law professor.

    2. @ 12:23 don't think you're serious, but if you are you would have better odds if you took that money to a casino and put it on black.

  18. I really get tired of hearing nonsense like this. For most people, higher education is the best vehicle to find a decent job. It pays off even in the military. It opens far more doors than not having an education. Nobody says spend a fortune at a private school. But community college followed up by a bs or BA can not only be invaluable and opens far more doors than would otherwise open. You only have one life to live. You want to live it working for mcdonalds or driving a truck ..have at it. But I would hope for far more for my kids, even if they earned less. As for law school, if you can do it for minimal debt..that too can open doors..including the door to self employment. And no matter what the naysayers here say, some people actually enjoy practicing law and some actually make large amounts of money doing it. But like anything else in this country, anything worth doing in this country is hard work and competitive.

    1. If you "really get tired of hearing" about this, then go away. Apologists for the greatest educational wealth transfer-from the federal govt to law schools-clearly have no credibility. Jus go away.

    2. Get a BA in 4 years at a state school, and then friggin' stop.

    3. So 6:47's arguments for getting a near-worthless T4 law degree for hundreds of thousands in nondischargeable debt basically boil down to YOLO? Sounds about right.

  19. scam: 1. a dishonest scheme; a fraud. synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick; hustle, flimflam, bunco, grift, gyp, shakedown synonyms: swindle, cheat, deceive, trick, dupe, hoodwink, double-cross, gull; More
    informalrip off, con, fleece, shaft, hose, sting, bilk, diddle, rook, gyp, finagle, bamboozle, flimflam, put one over on, pull a fast one on, sucker, stiff, shake down, hornswoggle "he was trying to scam residents with phony insurance policies"

    Under any definition of scam, just how is higher education a scam? People know exactly what they are buying. I have never seen a college or university guarantee anything other than an opportunity to attend and potentially earn a degree. So many of you are so angry and bitter. Some people are going to do well for themselves no matter where they go to school and others can go to Harvard and still be a loser. That's life.

    1. It's a grift; many many promises made-and virtually none are kept.

    2. No one here is saying that *all* higher education is a scam. I think we can all agree that an engineering degree from MIT is a good investment. This blog is about non-elite law schools.

  20. Naples, Fl is one of the wealthiest communities in the nation - those blue bloods are going to hire 4T Ave Maria grads to do their corporate work and complex estate planning, right?

  21. My two MOST successful friends have high school diplomas. No college degrees at all.

  22. I'm speechless. I'd rather be cited here than in the Harvard Law Review.

  23. 4:32 nailed it. I know of a kid who graduated several years ago with an honors degree and double liberal arts major from an Ivy League University, and a Masters from a top graduate program in international economics. This individual is currently living in New York and working at a minimum wage internship while seeking long term employment. If its this bad for well qualified Ivy League grads, I hate to imagine the future for 2nd or 3rd tier liberal arts lemmings.

    The in-house chief counsel for an integrated oil major, recently retired, told me that he had counseled his grandchildren to learn a trade rather than pursue higher education. The well connected are beginning to know the score; I pity the would be first generation college kids being lured to diploma mills…

  24. Nando, thought you'd want to see ANY times coverage of the scam:

    "The failure of law schools to close may also simply be a recognition that the market is adjusting to today’s realities. The struggle is pushing down the costs of operating a law school, and law schools are still valuable to universities. It may be tempting to shut them in these difficult times, but it can cost tens of millions to open a new one. Better to invest and cut back on expenses for a while and see what happens."

    The pigs are viewing this as cyclical. Guys, we need to turn the heat up on these bastards and show them this is a permanent change. My friend and I are considering going to the local LSAT test center on the day of the test to hand out copies of TTR articles.

  25. @6:47 shill- So you're chasing some "prestige dream". Would you rather your kid be a high school grad making $50k for UPS debt-free or $50k as a "prestigious" lawyer with $150k in debt and little room for growth? If you say the latter, than you don't have your child's best interest at heart. The income potential isn't there anymore for the 99% of attorneys. Maybe David Boies can bill $1000/hour and get paid. But for everyone else, it's a race to the bottom for clients and fees. Sadly, society gives lawyers prestige but not the McDonald's manager, even if the McDonald's manager is lightyears ahead of the broke-ass lawyer in terms of no debt, savings, purchasing power, etc.

    Most vocational programs are through community colleges, so some education is important. But my comment was that a liberal arts degree to the tune of $150k (depending on tuition and interest on loans) isn't a sound investment in your future. You've lost 4 years of working and have no marketable skills. I know many, many people who have undergrad (and law) degrees who are working jobs that simply do not require a college degree. This is because of the massive fraud perpetrated by the higher education system that says everyone should go to college. No, everyone shouldn't go to college. A generation ago if you didn't get into an establish college, you didn't go. Now every moron can "graduate" from University of Phoenix. But after that, they'll be working at Denny's. They sell well-meaning people a dream instead of having the hard conversation with them that they would be better forgoing the BS "education" and instead take a job in a different sector immediately.

    By being the debt-free high school graduate you are better for society too. You can be a viable consumer. All these kids with a shitload of student loans are trapped in their parents' basements scraping pennies together to make loan payments. They'll never be viable consumers or contribute meaningfully to the tax base. But at least they are "prestigious" lawyers/accountants without a prayer of ever building decent lives for themselves.

    @8:25 shill- Schools, both colleges and law schools, fabricate employment data (i.e., marking as "employed" people pursuing graduate degrees after finishing). They misrepresent statistics all the time. Further, we are talking about 17/18 year old kids applying to college. They don't have a clue about it or know what they're in for. And the parents are clueless boomers who have no idea what the new economy is like because they are comfortable at or nearing retirement. The kids are just told they need to "go to college" to get ahead. But again, I see countless people working at the mall with English degrees making lattes.

    Higher education is a racket for academic elites. Unless you are in a top program somewhere it just doesn't pay. Get a degree in History from your state college and see where you are when you graduate. Instead, you could have WORKED and saved for the 4 years and had savings, no debt, and a life right away.d

    1. There is a lot in between being an unemployed, debt ridden lawyer and a UPS worker. I want my kids to have careers which they find stimulating and fulfilling. I do not want them to have a job simply to have a job. The best of all worlds is to get a job which pays a decent salary and is something they would look forward to doing every day. It is very hard to get one of those jobs without a college degree unless you are the type who thrives in the vocational world and enjoy repairing air conditioners day in and out. It is also indisputable that a college degree, for better or worse, is pretty much a necessity today for any decent job outside of construction and the vocations. And those can be gotten pretty cheaply these days if necessary . . which means community college for an associates and than followed up by two years at the local state university.


    On October 22, 2014, the Catholic Education Daily published a Kimberly Scharfenberger piece entitled “New Ave Maria Law Scholarships Available to Grads from Newman Guide Colleges.” Check out the following segment:

    “The Ave Maria School of Law recently announced new scholarships, beginning for the Summer/Fall 2015 term, called the Cardinal Newman Scholarship Program. Qualified graduates from universities recommended by The Newman Guide will be eligible, as well as former Fellowship of Catholic University Students (FOCUS) missionaries, members of Christ the King Parish in Ann Arbor, Mich., and members of Opus Dei.

    “Ave Maria School of Law seeks to admit men and women who are drawn to our distinctive mission of educating lawyers within the Catholic intellectual tradition,” read the news release.

    Students admitted to Ave Maria School of Law for Summer/Fall 2015 from one of the aforementioned institutions or organizations must also meet academic standards, including an official LSAT score of at least 150 and a cumulative GPA of at least 3.0.

    “An extensive record of participation in academic, spiritual, co-curricular and/or extra-curricular activities that enrich their Catholic faith” is also part of the criteria in order for students to be considered.

    From the institution’s online announcement:

    As Ave Maria School of Law seeks to admit men and women who are drawn to our distinctive mission of educating lawyers within the Catholic intellectual tradition, we welcome applications from alumni of these institutions and members of these organizations. We are confident that these students will enrich the academic and spiritual life of the Law School.”

    Earning a 3.0 undergraduate GPA from one of the Catholic toilet colleges is about the equivalent of an 8th grader scoring an 80 percent score on his weekly spelling test. Hell, the latter might be a bigger accomplishment. Attaining a 150 LSAT score is impressive…if you’ve been diagnosed with a mental impairment. The fact that the Ave Maria Sewer of Law is offering full tuition scholarships to these idiots – for the three year period – further proves that this school is a certified trash pit.

  27. Profiting Off the “Law School Scam” and How Taxpayers Are on the Hook (As Usual)

  28. It's all about getting asses in seats. It's all about the fuckin' Benjamins.

  29. Head to the Ave Maria Sewer of Law entry on LSN, and you will further see that this is a putrid cesspool. A dog covered in fleas has more “prestige” than this garbage heap. Look for yourself, people.


    Ave Maria Law School is considered a Somewhat Competitive law school, which accepts only 58% of its applicants. Comparatively, Ave [M]aria is Higher than the average cost for law school.”

    Immediately below this data are the figures below:

    “Class of 2018:

    Applications: 1292
    Offers: 739 (57.20%)
    Matriculated: 113 (8.7%)

    25th percentile GPA: 2.81
    Median GPA: 3.10
    75th percentile GPA: 3.48

    25th percentile LSAT: 144
    Median LSAT: 148
    75th percentile LSAT: 153”

    Yes, those are excellent numbers, right?!?! What law firms wouldn’t want to hire Domino’s Pizza School of Law grads?! Hell, I’m surprised major employers don’t go to OCI at this dump, and bring baseball bats to fend off other big-ass companies, federal agency reps, and Biglaw associates.

    Now, you can see why TTTThoma$ Monaghan and the pigs at Ave Maria are so desperate to throw full tuition, three year scholarships at people with the super-impressive credentials of a 3.0 UGPA and 150 LSAT score. This is BEYOND pathetic!

    When you are done laughing your ass off, then scroll down to the toilet’s employment “placement” data:


    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The Ave Maria University School of Law class of 2013 had an employment rate of 65% with 3% pursuing an additional degree.”

    Incurring an additional $145K-$195K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for such employment prospects is a GREAT deal for the students, huh?!?! Anyone defending these piles of rot has no honor, dignity or integrity.

  30. Does Domino's Corporate hire firms of Ave Maria graduates, or Yale grads?

  31. Hunchback members of of Opus Dei and other lemming freaks: if you want to even appear to be legit, why not waste taxpayer money at other Catholic garbage pits like Catholic U or Villanova, or if you are really clever, maybe the trap school Georgetown…

  32. So.....Giving scholarships and helping people AVOID debt is a "bad" thing huh?


  33. So this guy is giving away free LS degrees, and that's a bad thing? The problem here is most of you are saying its bad because it doesn't also come with the guarantee of a job. Oh, boo hoo. Pizza man won't won't deliver you a life with everything on it in 30 minutes or less? Grow up. Here's an idea. You take your free law degree and you go work for anyone that will take you, learn the ropes then figure out the rest. If you have the drive and aren't creative and assertive enough to make this happen then don't go to LS! Do something else!

    If you want to practice law become a lawyer. If you want to make as much money as possible do something else. There are easier paths to wealth.

  34. I read the article and laughed at certain parts, but feel it is extremely biased and fueled by some sort of weird animosity for philanthropy. Big deal if the school has had a shaky start, or if it's funded by Domino's... the important aspect of going to law school is passing the bar, and regardless of whether you go to a top tier law school, you will either be smart enough to pass the bar or not. Doesn't matter what school you go to. I am happy that Ave Maria is offering scholarships and trying to get better students. As for the writer of this article, I don't think anyone who uses terms like "cesspool" or "dung heap" should be giving advice like this.


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