Friday, January 23, 2015

Second Tier Dung Field: University of Denver Sturm College of Law


http://www.du.edu/financialaid/law/cost/

Tuition: Idiots enrolled full-time in this trash heap will be charged $42,120 in tuition – for the 2014-2015 school year. Fees will add another $250 to the big-ass tab. The pigs also list health insurance – estimated at $2,420 – under Direct Costs. What a tremendous deal for students, huh?!?!

Total Estimated Cost of Attendance: According to this same page, the cockroaches lists Indirect Costs as $16,161. Of course, the bastards estimate room and board as $11,646, as well as personal expenses of $1,332. I suppose these costs could be this low - if you eat Ramen noodles twice a day and have 4-5 roommates. This brings the supposed total to $60,951.

Keep in mind that ABA-accredited diploma mills base living expenses on an academic calender, instead of a full year. Since actual students will require a 12 month budget, we will prorate the following items: room and board; transportation; and personal/miscellaneous. Doing so, we reach a more accurate, total COA of $63,649 – for one damn year! Who wouldn’t want to attend this sewage pit?!?!

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+3

Ranking: At these prohibitive costs, one would expect this school to have one hell of a reputation among the academic and legal communities. Well, the Univer$iTTy of Denver $TTurm Commode of Law is rated as the 68th greatest, most magnificent and sensational law school in the entire country – by US “News” & World Report. In fact, it “only” shares this distinction with the following toilets: Loyola-Chicago; SeTTon Haul; and Kansas. What “prestigious” company! 

http://www.law.du.edu/documents/career-development-and-opportunities/2013-ABA-Report.pdf

Published Employment “Placement” Statistics: Let’s take a look at the dung heap’s Class of 2013 Employment Summary Report. There were 267 members of this graduating class. Out of this figure, 245 landed a job within nine months of earning their TT degree. This includes any type of work, i.e. legal, non-law, full-time, short term, part-time, or long term. Two grads did not bother to report their employment status to the filth pit. This equates to an employment “placement” rate of 92.4 percent, i.e. 245/265.

In fact, only 186 JDs landed full-time, long term positions – in any industry. This would be a rate of 70.2%, folks. Yes, who doesn’t want to take on a mountain of NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for such weak-ass employment outcomes?!

By the way, this gets even better – unless you are a student at this cesspool. A total of 25 Sturm law grads from the Class of 2013 were hired in law school or university funded positions! Only one person was employed full-time, long – while two others were in full-time, short term posts. Another 13 pawns were placed in part-time, long term jobs, whereas nine other stooges were hired in short term, part-time positions. Could you imagine – for one goddamn second – if accredited U.S. medical or dental schools engaged in such heinous and deliberate actions?!?! Those students and graduates would push administrators out of windows, if that was the case.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/grad-debt-rankings/page+2

Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Univer$iTTy of Denver Law Class of 2013 who incurred debt for law school - as $130,981. In fact, 81% of this garbage pit’s 2013 cohort took on such foul debt. Don’t forget that this amount does not even include undergraduate debt – and also does not take accrued interest into account, as the student is enrolled.

http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org/

Standard 509 Information Report for 2014: Check out the following data – in order to see the level of “selectivity” at this pile of rotten garbage.

“Total number of applications: 1,601 
Total number of offers: 987 
Number of matriculants: 258 
75th percentile GPA: 3.62 
50th percentile GPA: 3.40 
25th percentile GPA: 3.10 
75th percentile LSAT: 159 
50th percentile LSAT: 156 
25th percentile LSAT: 153 [Emphasis mine]

This equates to an acceptance rate of 61.6 percent! And this is from the 68th “greatest” law school in the United States!

Conclusion: Avoid this stench pit at all costs. You will not be served well, by incurring an additional $140K-$185K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt – for a chance to enter a GLUTTED field. Remember, technological advances have slammed this industry hard – and will continue to lead to permanent job losses for attorneys. Do you think that YOU will be able to compete with established law firms and local lawyers? Will you overcome LPOs, legal outsources, LegalZoom, and other software programs?!?! 

Hell, at this very moment, a commercial for LegalZoom just flashed across my TV screen. Good luck swimming against the current. In the final analysis, this is a shrinking job sector. Do not be a dumbass. Find something better to do with the remaining time that you have left. Don’t piss away three years of your life on a garbage law degree. Otherwise, you WILL be paying for this foolish mistake for decades.

27 comments:

  1. The societal parasites that run this $chool should be ashamed—their long term bar passage required employment rate is only 54% (according to law school Transparency.) If you can’t get a full scholarship to University of Colorado, or go to a T-7, better off being a high school teacher with full benefits and a life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nando says Top 8, you say Top 7, and I suspect you're right for now. Next year, it will take a Top 5 law degree to give you a reasonable chance to repay your law school debt while living a comfortable life.

      Delete
    2. Worse yet, they have increased class size 290. If LST were to use that for the denominator, all else being equal, Sturm would be 1 student (literally, just 1) away from a 49% rate.

      No school who can place so few graduates deserves to be ranked at all. Employers clearly don't value the degree. Costing over $210K and an opportunity cost of three years of a matriculant's life (not to mention other potential earnings), this is the epitome of a trap school.

      Delete
    3. Hiring their own grads in such large numbers to dead-end low pay jobs is despicable. This really is a scam school.

      Delete
    4. I recently explained that there are only thirteen law schools that anyone who is not independently wealthy should consider:

      http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.ca/2014/12/guest-post-by-old-guy-which-law-schools.html

      And that figure is generous. Even Harvard and Yale are questionable propositions for anyone with no Daddy Warbucks to foot the bill.

      There are only 16 law schools at which even 40% of the class finds a job in Big Law or a federal clerkship. Maybe, just maybe, those at the bottom of the list are worth attending for zero or very little tuition. The other 189 law schools, however, should be ruled out by anyone without the money to pay for them in cash.

      Old Guy

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    5. Usually Harvard and Yale law graduates come from affluent families that have the money, power and connections to make life easy. Those that don't have in the past become stand-up comedians, all-star wrestlers and other non-legal careers. There are law schools that are riskier than others but they are all risky.

      Delete
  2. Yet with all the economic uncertainty surrounding this unneeded law school, it persists in granting tenure to marginally qualified candidates. This guarantees that these preening "professors" will have a powerful incentive to swindle naïve and uninformed students for at least the next 30 years.

    Surely everyone at Denver--the professors, the administrators, and the poor indebted students--have lost their minds.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Yet with all the economic uncertainty surrounding this unneeded law school, it persists in granting tenure to marginally qualified candidates."

      I have a law degree from Stanford University, dammit!

      Delete
  3. Does anyone know the employment rates for top auto mechanic schools?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's probably a legitimate 90%+, unlike law / MBA toilets baseless claims.

      Delete
  4. I rented a 2 bedroom apartment to a Sturm grad. The guy was in his 30s and he skipped out on 2 months rent. Didn't even show up at the eviction hearing. This was back in '07.

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  5. $42K per year to go here? That's unconscionable. I never even heard of this place until just now.

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  6. Damn, I had to look again at that $130,981. The average indebtedness numbers just keep rising while the job market just keeps shrinking.

    Denver kids, if you really think that you're going to land a job that's going to be able to service that kind of student loan principal, then you really need your head examined. There aren't enough jobs or paying clients out there to justify going this far in debt--even if you actually manage to land one of the highly coveted "big law" jobs.

    I second what 12:08 posted. Charging this kind of tuition is simply unconscionable. Were there no such thing as Grad Plus loans, a place like this would not be able to ass rape their students in such a manner.

    ReplyDelete
  7. http://www.law.du.edu/documents/career-development-and-opportunities/2013-ABA-Report.pdf

    Let’s return to the commode’s 2013 Employment Summary Report, and focus on the grads who reported working for private law firms. Under Employment Type, you will see that only 87 people from this cohort found such work. Hell, 78 of these positions were full-time and long term. Keep in mind that there were 267 members of this TT class. Still like your odds, Lemming?!?!

    We’ll break these figures down further. Five desperate souls opened up solo practices, while another 36 asshats went to work for firms with 2-10 lawyers. Fully 19 JDs were employed in offices of 11-25 attorneys and three more reported being hired by firms of 26-50 lawyers. Yes, these graduates will have no problem repaying their $145K+ in NON-DISCHARGEABLE student loans, right?!?!

    One damn person landed a job in a firm of 51-100 attorneys, whereas five grads found employment in offices of 101-250 lawyers. Seven JDs were hired by firms with 251-500 attorneys, and nine others reported working for offices of more than 500 lawyers. Two people were supposedly employed by “Firms of Unknown Size.”

    In sum, out of a big-ass class of 267 men and women, exctly 16 landed positions which may allow them to pay back their student loans without too much burden. Whether they keep their positions for more than 3-5 years is a different question. Furthermore, these jobs tend to go to those with the highest grades – as well as the sons and daughters of judges. This means that their student debt levels are MUCH smaller than those who will end up working in toiletlaw or non-legal positions.

    Does anyone with a brain stem, and an ounce of integrity, want to defend these ABA-accredited stench pits? That’s right – at this point, only the law school pigs themselves continue to try and obfuscate the issue.

    http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2014/08/looking-back-at-itlss.html

    On August 7, 2014, Paul Campos wrote a reflective piece entitled “Looking back at ITLSS.” He specifically mentions the term “reverse Robin Hood” when describing U.S. “legal education.” Look at this portion:

    “Law school applications and enrollment have both plunged. The 2014 cycle featured about 55,000 applicants, down from 88,000 in 2010. Despite moderate to severe cuts in admissions standards at almost all law schools other than Harvard, Yale, and Stanford, the 2014 first year class will include somewhere between 37,000 and 38,000 students, down from 52,500 in 2010.

    After decades of non-stop growth, average effective tuition (sticker tuition minus discounts) has at least flattened out and possibly even declined slightly over the last two to three years. This is a product of the combination of schools continuing to raise their sticker rates at faster than inflation, but offering deeper discounts to a larger percentage of their admits. The net effect of this has been to keep average tuition from rising in real terms, although of course this pattern exacerbates the reverse Robin Hood structure of contemporary legal education, in which students with lower entrance numbers (and, crucially, lower SES backgrounds) subsidize the attendance of their better-credentialed, richer, and better-connected classmates.”

    ReplyDelete
  8. Isn't this where Dybuk's buddy is located?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep, rode the gravy train to Denver, she did. Not quite what she expected, though.

      Delete
  9. Law school has been a sucker's bet for over a decade.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I used to think law profs were just out of touch. That's maybe still the case for the old Boomers. But these guys spend hours each day checking legal articles. The articles on the crap job market for newbie lawyers are numerous. They can find them if they want to.

    Another thing is maybe most of law faculties are now in their 30s and 40s. They're not that far removed from this shit. (That's why they left biglaw running and screaming after a short stint.) They know the score and they choose to participate in the scam anyway.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They know the reality. You can say a lot of things about these people, but you can not deny that they are indeed extremely intelligent people.

      There is no way they don't know. There is no way the Boomer profs don't know either. They know, they have known, they don't care.

      These are bad, bad people. I sometimes wonder if the same opportunity presented itself to me, would I take it? I don't think I would, but it seems most people are greedy and will rip everyone off to get ahead.

      Delete
  11. http://denver.lawschoolnumbers.com/

    Take a look at the Law School Numbers profile for this second tier sewage pit:

    “UNIVERSITY OF DENVER LAW SCHOOL

    Colorado territorial governor John Evans founded the University of Denver in 1864, making it the oldest independent institution of higher education in the Rocky Mountain region. The Sturm College of Law opened its doors in 1892, pioneering legal education on America's frontier and graduating many of the attorneys and judges who built the legal structure of America's Mountain West. Independence, ingenuity, and excellence remain guiding principles at the Sturm College of Law and at the larger University of Denver, which also includes top graduate schools in business, international studies, social work, and other fields.”

    Scroll down the Admi$$ion$ data:

    “DENVER LAW SCHOOL ADMISSIONS

    Denver Law School is considered a Competitive law school, which accepts only 46% of its applicants. Comparatively, Denver is Higher than the average cost for law school.

    Class of 2018

    Applications 2,455
    Offers 1,127 (45.91%)
    Matriculated 291 (11.9%)
    25th percentile UGPA: 3.17
    Median UGPA: 3.46
    75th percentile UGPA: 3.64
    25th percentile LSAT: 155
    Median LSAT: 159
    75th percentile LSAT: 161”

    Yes, what a truly selective school, huh?!?! Hell, ¼ of the entering class had an LSAT score below 155. The undergrad GPAs are not impressive either. Remember that most law school applicants had garbage majors.

    “DENVER LAW SCHOOL EMPLOYMENT

    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The University of Denver class of 2013 had an employment rate of 89% with 1% pursuing an additional degree.”

    Of course, ABA-accredited toilets and diploma mills count non-law, part-time and temporary work under “employment.” Apparently, the pigs feel that grads should be happy and grateful for landing jobs that do not require a law degree. Plus, the cockroaches believe that their schools should receive the credit for "placing" students and JDs in jobs - even though these young men and women typically hustle to find these positions, with little to no help from the CDO staff.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Independence, ingenuity, and excellence..."

      Yes, they've managed to remain independent of the consequences of their despicable actions. So far.

      And yes, they've been quite ingenious at finding new revenue streams from the lower levels of the intelligence charts. So far.

      But how the hell can they claim to be excellent?

      Delete
  12. http://www.law.du.edu/index.php/sports-and-entertainment-law-journal

    Check out this pathetic description for something called the University of Denver Sports & Entertainment Law Journal:

    “Mission Statement

    The University of Denver Sports & Entertainment Law Journal was formed in 2005 as a national legal periodical. The Journal is focused on publishing scholarly articles in both the sports and entertainment industries as they pertain to their respective areas of law. The Journal’s aim is to track recent changes in these fields of law and serve as a resource to practitioners and students alike.

    The Journal is comprised of law students selected for editorial positions based on their merits demonstrated through a candidacy process. The process seeks those students who exhibit competent citation skills along with critical legal writing ability.

    The Journal welcomes submissions of articles for consideration from attorneys, practitioners, or others in the sports and entertainment fields. There is no length requirement for these articles – our primary objective is to provide authors interested, an opportunity and forum to express their opinions.

    The Journal’s citation format conforms to A Uniform System of Citation (18th ed. 2005), copyrighted by the Columbia, Harvard, and University of Pennsylvania Law Review and the Yale Law Journal.

    Publication does not indicate that the views expressed are adopted by the Journal.”

    Hopefully, none of the dolts on this journal are delusional enough to believe that they will go onto careers as sports agents. Sadly, I suspect that there are idiots at this commode who feel that they will represent Peyton Manning. Yes, attending the co-68th “greatest” law school in the country – and becoming a student editor on this useless publication – will lead to you negotiating contracts for coaches and athletes on Denver’s pro teams, right?!?! At least, hiring managers and employers can laugh their asses off when reviewing such a resume, if they make it that far into the document.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Sports and Entertainment Law"
      aka Bread and Circuses
      aka Fiddling while Rome Burns

      Diverting students into that journal is not only shockingly irresponsible. It also contributes to a student loan fraud of massive proportions.

      Delete
    2. ^^^ Well Put, Sir.

      Delete
  13. "Columbia [cool!], Harvard [wow!], and University of Pennsylvania Law Review [no way!] and the Yale Law Journal [holy shit!]."

    This place just be prestigious!

    Oh. Wait. You mean this scam school's minions use the same uniform system of citation as EVERY OTHER FUCKING JOURNAL out there?

    Instead of name-dropping in the most pathetic way possible, how about this: "The Journal’s citation format conforms to A Uniform System of Citation (18th ed. 2005), used by shitholes like Cooley, Valparaiso, Thomas Jefferson and Florida Coastal!"

    Not so preftigious now, huh?

    I'm just afraid that anyone stupid enough to fall for this place's bullshit is too delusional to scrutinize simple details.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I don't know if it means anything, but it really seems like the scamblogs, and even the forums like JDU and JDY are really slowing down. Nando's blog is the only one that seems to update frequently.

    I don't think the market is improving, but maybe people are moving on, and less people are replacing them. I can't understand people that have gone to law school the past several years at all, but it seems like the law schools are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

    Maybe we'll finally see some school closings this year.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Join the military, and use that to pay for your tuition.

    ReplyDelete

 
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