Sunday, March 15, 2015

Emory Law Prof Talks About the Law School Death Spiral

Excellent Breakdown: On March 9, 2015, the Washington Post published a piece from Dorothy A. Brown, under the headline “Law schools are in a death spiral. Maybe now they’ll finally change.” Check out the following portion:

“No law school has figured out how to handle the new normal of legal education: the lowest number of applicants in four decades; fewer legal jobs for graduates, and, according to Moody’s, “no relief in sight.” 

While some argue that going to law school is still a safe bet, little evidence exists to support this position. The most elite law schools — the top 1 percent — will thrive. The other 99 percent: not so much. 

Law schools are currently in a bidding war for the students with the highest LSATs and GPAs because U.S. News heavily emphasizes those factors in its rankings. Students with higher LSATs tend to have a higher socioeconomic status; poorer law students lose out on scholarships and end up paying full tuition, financed through student loans, subsidizing their richer classmates. And law schools are still struggling to break even. Most JD programs are hoping their central administrators will remember a not-too-distant past when law schools subsidized the greater university. 

At the same time, the legal profession has had a seismic shift in the way it does business. Employers have downsized and outsourced work, and used technology to cut salary costs — computer programs can search through volumes of documents, eliminating the need to pay a lawyer to do it. Partner profits at elite law firms are at record highs; firms are getting by with less, and they’ve figured out how to make a lot more money doing so. Newly minted graduates face dwindling job prospects.” [Emphasis mine]

You can't fool prospective students about the job outlook forever. What’s sickening is how these academic thieves are lamenting the loss of students and applicants, i.e. federal $tudent loan dollar$. They don’t even pretend to give a damn about their graduates drowning in debt, while not being able to secure decent employment. What beacons of integrity, huh?!?!

Now, read Brown’s conclusion:

“Questioning the value of legal scholarship is heresy inside the legal academy – which is why I am grateful that I have tenure. Law schools are run by the faculty for the faculty. A former colleague once put it like this: “If we could run this law school without students, this place would be perfect.” He happened to be the dean. Such a system is unlikely to be changed from within. 

But while faculty cannot be terminated, their summer research stipends can be. Other disciplines require faculty to obtain external funding to support their work. Law schools should take a similar approach. For all who argue that legal scholarship has merit, let the market decide. This won’t solve all of a law school’s financial woes, but it could be a place to start right now. My 20 years as a legal academic causes me to predict that no serious change will occur until a cataclysmic event occurs. My prediction: In three years, a top law school will close. Then watch how quickly things change.” [Emphasis mine]

Other Coverage: On March 10, 2015, Minding the Campus posted an essay from Political “Science” professor Peter Augustine Lawler, which was labeled “The Withering Away of Law Schools.” Look at his conclusion:

“Easier Admissions 

Good news: The law school admission process ain’t scary any more. The loans that constrain choice after graduation no longer need be all that huge. The bad news: For most grads there won’t be any lucrative and secure options. 

Bottom lines: Lots of low-ranked law schools are going to close and even the good ones will have to become much more sensitive to the real needs of consumers. The working conditions for law professors everywhere gets worse. The market will, in this case, quickly and effectively sort things out, because the “home institutions” of most law schools won’t do all that much to subsidize them for very long. Those institutions have tolerated the self-indulgent quirkiness of law schools mainly because they’ve been cash cows. No longer. 

The “liberal arts”–beginning with the political science major–take another hit, although it will still remain the case that the best route to political leadership will be the one followed by both Obama and Romney. It’s easy to advise undergraduate majors in political science to choose cheaper (often comped) technical programs leading to an MBA, MPA, MPH, and so forth. The better programs offering such degrees sometimes have solid placement records, and they are certainly better for many students. But there’s no denying they lack the breadth and access to the opportunities associated with political life. 

At this point, it is probably no more risky to pursue even a Ph.D in political philosophy or “regular philosophy” or history or whatever. Typically talented and accomplished students have to borrow little to nothing–at least if they don’t have a family and are very frugal–to flourish in said programs. The career prospects in a world where liberal education is disappearing, tenure has no future, political correctness and techno-vocationalism are crowding out everything else, might not be all that much worse than that for most law students today. That is, pretty bleepin’ bad.” [Emphasis mine]

At what point will McDonald’s and Burger King become more selective, regarding their customers, than the law school pigs? The author at least understands that parent univer$itie$ and college$ will not continue to shell out cash to support their law schools/diploma mills.  Also, I would not recommend the PhD route to anyone who is not from a wealthy family.

Conclusion: When these blogs first starting documenting the law school scam, who would have predicted that the numbers of applicants would sink so rapidly? Now, several years later, we have a tenured “law professor” writing in the Washington Post about how the commodes are desperate for students. That is definite progress. However, let’s not celebrate until after a few more ABA-accredited toilets are permanently flushed.  Perhaps, one higher ranked school might close, if the central university administration - or board of tru$tee$ - decides that "prestige" is not worth the cost to them. Remember, "higher education" in the U.S. is ALL about the money!


  1. I took 8 liquid shits yesterday. 8. Fucking 8 of 'em. I feel like I spent 10 rounds in the ring with Floyd Mayweather. I had 2 more liquid shits this morning. At this rate I'll have a 6 pack by the end of the week. I told my mom but she said to buck up. Should I go see a doctor? but the problem with that you see is my insurance co-pay is higher than a mothafucka and I'm not sure I can afford the bill just for some doctor to tell me to get some bedrest and drink water.

    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    2. First of all, you do need to drink water to replace what you're losing. And until you give in and go to the doctor, you might try one of the common commercial medications for diarrhea.

  2. As crude as your writing is, it and other law school scam writings have made me reevaluate my decision to attend a non t14 law school. Thank you. I probably won't be attending until my chances of a well paying job are at least better than 70%, let alone 20%.

    Or perhaps I'll never go. Better than life crippling debt. There are always other options.

    P.s. The message is clear and I hear it, but I really don't think the shit and pig stuff helps. It actually made me doubt what you were saying until I did the actual research and found that the schools are mostly scams.

    1. that's nando. And when you really think about it, how scamdeans and profs live thier daily, normal lives feeding at the trough of young people's flesh, and what kind of person it takes to do that... the offensive imagery seems less inappropriate. To me at least.

    2. I agree with you that what they are doing is worse than poop. But personally I didn't take his writing seriously at first due to the layer of shit humor on top. When I read the "Don't go to law school (unless)" book, it had a bigger impact because it didn't have roach and pig comments distracting me from the message.

      I must admit, it is fun to read now that I'm fully on board the law school is a scam train.

    3. I disagree. Law schools often market themselves as places where kids develop superior minds and ethics in order to take their rightful positions as leaders of society. The words "prestige" and "honor" occur again and again.

      Nando's pictures of overflowing toilets and pigs at the trough are a powerful visual rebuttal to that law school mystique. They say: beneath all that highfalutin' language, there is nothing but the stench of greed and deception.

    4. 10:15/2:46-

      Sure, the imagery is over the top, but this is somewhat important. The imagery is important because it makes TTR stand out (even to a non-coprophiliac, such as myself). There are plenty of blogs explaining the law school scam in more mundane--or even more technical--ways, but the piss-and-shit aspect is hard to forget. Next time a friend floats the idea of going to a TTTT, I bet you won't say "I wish I could remember that one blog that had a decent analysis--if only I could remember how to get back to the analysis." If you don't like TTR, the "my blog list" column might have your choice for further reading.

      Further, like 11:08 noted, is this narrative really that bad? Let's use some perspective; it's not like law $chool$ are without blame. All they had to do was to keep employment prospects for their students within, ya' know, 20-30% of the general economy and not charge exorbitant tuition while robbing students of three years of earning potential. The overwhelming majority of law $chool$ have failed on all accounts.

      If you still feel any sympathy for the scammers, I suggest you view the situation from the perspective of the scammed, not as someone whose sympathy lies with the party being only superficially more civil.

    5. To keep it short, Nandos blog was a curiosity to me and I didn't give it much credibility because of the poop jokes. Then I read Paul Campos book dont go to law school (unless). That convinced me more.

      But i do get your point that Nandos blog is unique.

  3. It's really HYS or nothing if you're not connected, and even that is questionable at these insane debt loads and the non-existent quality of life and long term career prospects for nobodies.

    It just really makes no sense to go to law school unless you are the type of person that is guaranteed a good job where you are treated well for at least a decade or two before you'd have to move on.

  4. 10:15: so glad that you avoided the trap, but if you got caught in it you would be angry too. The anger among those of us scammed is and should be palpable.

  5. Something to think about is the increasing media attention being paid to America's student debt problem. Not to say that the government is going to get anything done, but that people are becoming more and more aware that some $1T of student debt just isn't going to be able to be repaid. I mean, lenders can only float their debtors for so long on IBR or PAYE programs before they have to pay someone.

    I think even the White House is figuring this out in spite of being largely supported by both the education and finance rackets.

    Whether anything comes out of this or not is to be determined. But expect to hear more media coverage of the increasing numbers of unemployed and unemployable law school grads with $200K in debt. More importantly will be the law school cartel's inability to blame their victims.

    I'm still thinking that we're going to see a couple fourth tier shitholes close their doors soon. The word is out, and all the turd polishing in the world isn't going to be able to spin law school as a sound investment. As soon as one goes down, they'll start tumbling like dominoes.

    Truth is that this country needs to flush over 100 law schools out of existence. There's just no need for this many lawyers in the age of LegalZoom and other entities that states refuse to regulate.

    1. You're absolutely right. A couple of years ago it was a watershed article in the New York Times or Wall Street Journal. One article or two articles, years apart.

      Now you can find a new Law School Scam article almost every, single day in major publications frequently penned by insiders - law professors, ex deans, etc.

      Vermont and TJ have defaulted. Hamline had to merge. Rutgers had to merge. Vermont was trying to merge with the University of Vermont, but that got kicked to the curb. Cooley closed a campus. Infilaw has not been able to buy Charleston. Bar passage rates fell off a cliff. Admissions standards too and there's more fun to come.

      More broadly, three state attorneys general sued Corinthian for fraud. ITT Tech got sued by the CFPB. Fraud is a complete defense to the enforceability of a federal student loan, and there's a debt strike. I wish them well.

      Undergrad institutions are also experiencing enrollment declines, and scads of them are insolvent today.

      Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve has started writing about student debt overhangs and how even with IBR, the federal government cannot get repaid, because people are broke.

      The whole higher educational bubble is popping.

    2. And don't forget the impending closure of Sweet Briar...

  6. Wow great article! It really sums up the dire state of legal "education" today. Some of the quotes really stuck out to me:

    “No law school has figured out how to handle the new normal of legal education.”

    The scammers haven’t figured out a way to maintain their 200k do-nothing jobs. The bums are getting a cold, hard dose of reality as lemmings refuse to enroll and bring their mountains of student loan cash. Watching the scammers squirm is great. For years we heard about how they gave up millions in the private sector to teach students. Now let’s see them network, or get a high-paying job in Kansas.

    “The most elite law schools — the top 1 percent — will thrive. The other 99 percent: not so much.”

    That’s life. Apparently the Duke’s of the world are still doing pretty well with corporate law – the only job paying enough to satisfy the student loan beast.

    “The author at least understands that parent univer$itie$ and college$ will not continue to shell out cash to support their law schools/diploma mills.”

    All that talk about nobility, service, and “giving something back” is just a steaming pile of dogshit. The bottom line is the only thing that matters to the administrations of these schools. They care about financial statements, not some obscure notion of justice. If the law schools can’t produce cash they are going out of business. Tenure and academic freedom won’t be worth a cold bucket of piss when the university admins see the law school as a cost-center.

    “If we could run this law school without students, this place would be perfect.”

    My favorite line. I spent one semester in law school and it’s consistent with the arrogant professors I dealt with. Why must deans say this in private? Why can’t they stand up in front of a crowd of lemmings during Accepted Student’s Weekend and say: “You are all a bunch of fucking idiots. This place would be perfect without you shits, just hand over your loan cash now.” That only comes out during graduation when a well-fed professor tells you to “get over it” once you find out you’ve been fleeced.

  7. The United States Armed Forces is more selective than law schools today.

  8. The emphasis on elite law schools being safe is misplaced. Yes, their grads get entry level jobs. However, the chance of a career where you can work as long as you want and are physically able is no longer a given. The surplus if entry level jobs over career jobs hits Harvard And Yale Law grads hard in the second half of people's careers. I am sitting with one of these people. Perfect academics, federal clerkship and top job after that. I know several others. Unemployment and temp work and inability to find a job that first years with their records sail into is a problem

    Many law schools should close. All the big law schools should cut their class sizes substantially.

    Don't tell people the top law schoo.s are safe or even good bets. For many people, they are not.

    1. I was working for a guy who used ad hoc associate labor. I was a brand new lawyer. My bosses other associate was a solo with a Columbia law degree, law review, Order of the Coif. This guy had 15 years of experience, all big law before he went solo.

      He was almost begging for tiny assignments writing legal research memos for my boss for $75.00/hour.

      Lemmings have zero hope. Zero.

      It's all garbage now. All those graduates of the last decade did not disappear. Saturated is not even descriptive of how bad the legal labor market really is.

    2. Yeah, even doc review is tight, despite cratering rates and horrible treatment.

      There is really just not any legal demand. There is a little for the connected folk in Big Law, but that's very few people, and they mostly just do it for fun because they don't need to work for a living to begin with.

      Pretty much everything in America is subsidized and driven by the government. Without that government intervention, there really aren't industries. CPAs, bankers, doctors, real estate, all of that is driven by the federal government, through regulations, corporate welfare, tax policy, government contracts etc.

      You strip all of that stuff away, the medicare, Fannie and Freddie, mortgage interest deductions, IRAs, 401ks, all of that stuff, and a lot of industries would crater.

      It just so happens law doesn't have those subsidies in the first place, certainly not to the extent that it can support the ridiculous overproduction of lawyers.

      Most people NEVER need a lawyer their entire lives. Maybe they'd need a will, but a lawyer should never have been necessary for wills in the first place. And that's still a one time transaction, late in someone's life. Maybe purchasing a home when filling out paperwork, but most of that can be done by non-lawyers too, and is done by non-lawyers in many states. Most transactions that a lawyer COULD look over, a lawyer still isn't needed, because most are not negotiable to begin with.

      What's left, a bunch of frauds pretending they're injured, and career criminals that would just as soon murder their defense attorney as pay him? That's not a reliable way of making a living.

  9. My coworker recently did some legal shit on a real estate case. Guess how much he got paid. $300. Oh and he went to a top tier school.

  10. They're all charlatans and grifters, but remember: this ain't three card monte-this is the long con. It's been going on for years, decades in some cases, and these guys will stop at nothing to keep it going. Think back to law school-did you have a single law professor who could actually practice law? NO. And they are well aware of that-there's no way any of these deans or law professors are actually going to practice law. That requires certain social skills, and when you've spent years being openly contemptuous of others(the students, that is), pretty tough to attract paying clients. And the practice of law requires accountability and production-in other words, actual work. Can any of you imagine any of your law professors doing this? Well, they can't imagine working, either. That's why they will fight to the end to keep the scam going. What's their alternative-actually practicing law?
    So while it may be true that once one falls, others will too, it's going to be a while-if ever-before an ABA accredited school actually closes. Those running the scam have only one option: keep it going. No LSAT, accept everybody-whatever it takes. Otherwise, they'd have to get real jobs.

    1. If anyone here pays attention to how markets work, they work on anticipation rather than reality. They also tend to overcorrect whenever correction is necessary.

      So let's turn that to our advantage. Whenever we've got someone's attention, let's make it very clear that certain law schools are likely to close in the near future. And who wants to take the risk that their school s going to close?

      Repeat that enough times, and a school that's ready to close, that really needs to close, will actually close down for good.

      Choose your predictions carefully, and then your predictions can permanently change the world.

  11. Say what you will but I got my acceptance letter the other day. My black ass is going to law school in the fall. So long haters.

    1. And one more thing. I got in with a 148 lsat.

    2. If you really got into law school, your troubles are just beginning, sorry to say.

      If you're the racist troll who loves to come here for the toilet shots, then you live in a horrible personal hell that's a million times worse than life-destroying debt. How could you bring such humiliation and degradation to yourself?

    3. @525,

      A black ass, you say?

      Sir, you sound like presidential material to me - and I am as serious as a fucking heart attack when I say that.

      A black ass is all it takes to succeed with white Americans in 2015. The black ass ought to replace the fucking bald eagle as the national symbol of America. Hell, I'd like to pay you to come over to my house and fuck my wife. I'll even pay you double if you let me watch. I'm all torn up inside about my enormous debt from the legacy of slavery.

      We all are.

    4. @5:25: Hope it works out for you. For most, though, it doesn't. If you can get through under $50K in debt, it might be worth it. Otherwise, chances are that you're being played by a PREDATORY lending scam.

      Let me repeat that for you just in case you didn't quite understand. Chances are that you're being played by a PREDATORY lending scam.

      Law schools don't give a rat's ass about your future. They don't give a fuck if you can't get a job. They couldn't care less about a job market that is beyond flooded. They only care about their student loan checks.

      Think hard about your decision. It's not too late to consider other careers. Just don't say you weren't warned if things don't turn out the way you hope they will.

    5. This niggar graduated at the top of our class! I went to Cheesecake, he was a mother fucking waiter there!

      Print-screen this page, keep it.

      In three years, when you look back with a gnawing regret and a shame that won't quit, because you were warned, you can leave it as your suicide note.

      Every day there's a law school insider writing about how fucked his industry is, and you want to jump in for 300k in non-dischargeable debt and an interest rate that's 400% above prevailing rates???

      You want to jump in when the unemployment rate that's running at 50% for new law graduates when the national unemployment rate is 6.3%???

      Oh wait, we haven't even talked about wages yet! They'll be less than the janitor, bitch, and you if don't catch the reference, you need to do your homework.

      But, fuck the haters, you're going to law school because YOU'RE SO SMART!!! Smarter than the 7.8% of Yale law graduates who had to have their 'school' employ them, because You're smarter than the 16% of Emory graduates and the what, 25% of Northwestern graduates who have to have their schools employ them, because...well...

      You go on with your bad self. You deserve to go to the law school.

    6. More filth at 6:47. A filthy, evil racist troll. Apparently you enjoy hating women too. There's no way you'll ever have a wife to hand over to anyone. Most women can smell a psychopath a mile away, plus there's that job situation of yours.

    7. @128,

      LOL - look who's talking! The big expert on women. I assume that Painter is fulfilling the "woman" role in your own relationship?

    8. A 148? Are you sure you are qualified to be a lawyer? Would you tell your clients your score?

    9. I don't care what your race is that is a very low class way of describing oneself. It's no longer cool to talk that way.

    10. LOL@1016,

      A tidal wave of tears just crashed out of the Message Discipline Troll's slime-factory!



    On March 11, 2015, Business Insider featured Erin Fuchs’s coverage of this development. Her piece was entitled “In 3 years, a top law school will close.” Look at this opening:

    “A well-respected Emory University law professor shook up the world of academia on Monday by making a startling prediction: "In three years, a top law school will close."

    The op-ed article by Dorothy A. Brown in The Washington Post on the "death spiral" facing law schools touched a nerve. And she joked in an interview with Business Insider that if she didn't have tenure at Emory, she probably would be revising her résumé after the article's publication.

    Brown predicts that a law school in the top 50 or even top 20 of the US News & World report rankings may end up shutting down in the next three years because of declining enrollment.

    "Most people at top-50 law schools think this is a fourth-tier or a third-tier problem, and I think that misses the mark," said Brown, who is vice provost and professor of law at Emory.

    It's no secret that law schools have been in trouble since the recession pummeled the legal industry. Much of the bad press, however, has focused on small law schools that are not tied to universities and that do not make US News & World Report's coveted ranking of law schools.

    But Brown argues that the future of many of the America's top law schools is also uncertain because declining enrollment forces schools to offer attractive financial-aid packages to attract the best students. That hurts the schools' bottom line.

    "We are literally chasing after the same potential students," Brown said. "And that pool is dwindling."

    Higher ranked law schools are obsessed by their status in a defunct magazine called US “News” & World Report. Yes, what a prestigious “profession,” huh?!?! This is beyond embarrassing. Anyway, the cockroaches are competing for a smaller pool of quality applicants. They will start shelling out cash, in order to maintain their rating. However, smarter students are avoiding law school at a much higher clip than the morons with mediocre LSAT scores. Have fun with the mess you created, selfish pigs.


    It looks like this garbage pit, 4th tier, law school might close eventually. RIP. What purpose does this stupid law school in Appalachia serve?

    "In an effort to get students in the doors (which is basically tuition), ASL has joined a growing number of law schools that are lowering their requirements. This means bringing in students who may not otherwise get into law school. For example, the average score on the law school entrance exam (the LSAT) is 150, for ASL in 2013, the average score for entering students was 144, that's the lowest it has been since the doors opened at the school.

    In July 2014, the percentage of people who passed the bar in Virginia was 68% compared to 42% of ASL students that was the lowest rate for any law school located in the Commonwealth."

    1. 42% bar pass rate? How the hell is that place still accredited??? Or even open??

  15. Extending a heartfelt conngratulations to Thomas Jeffer$on Sewer of Law for churning this year's highest average indebted class--to the tune of a whopping $174,445 per victim.

    I mean, that's just in-fucking-sane.

    To top this off, only 29 fucking percent of this shit pit's gradutates found full-time, long term, legal jobs.

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    This is no longer just a scam. This is flat-out criminal to do this to people. These bottom feeder law schools KNOW that the market is completely flooded, and that their graduates are going to get laughed out of any job interview they manage to land. They KNOW that repaying home mortgage sized student loan balances is simply not possible for the majority of their graduates.

    They KNOW they're running a scam, and they still do it.

    Oh, and don't think it's just limited to TJSL either. 7 of 10 of the schools who made this list are fourth tier DEATH TRAPS. This is simply unacceptable, and it's time to put these motherfuckers out of business once and for all.

  16. The Wall Street Journal just published a front page killer article on a new ABA rule that will require all "law" $chool$ to exclude $chool subsidized internships from the bar passage required long term job category in their disseminated propaganda. Great to see the establishment press continuing to rap the vile snouts of these putrid scam factories. This will hit some tier one trap $chool$ especially hard, like
    like Emory and GW

  17. "Law schools are in crisis: Enrollment is plummeting, bar exam pass rates are declining, and the employment rate for fresh graduates is abysmal. There's one area, however, in which these institutions still outpace the rest of academia: how much they pay. Tenured law professors pulled in a median salary of $143,509 in 2014, more than professors in any other discipline, according to new survey data"

  18. In all fairness, a law school cannot place graduates in jobs that do not exist. The crappy legal job market has nothing to do with how well a law school trains and prepares its students to practice law. If the jobs aren't there, they aren't there.

    So it follows from that that there are too many law schools producing too many graduates. At least the bottom half (c. 100) of law schools have no good reason to exist, and most of the remaining top half of schools need to reduce their enrollment significantly.

    1. When are they going to close Touro and Brooklyn?

  19. I do not understand why anyone would consider going to law school in this day and age. It is insanity.

    I graduated from law school in 2013 and never found a legal job that used my degree. I was very depressed for a long time. I have hundred$ of thou$and$ of dollar$ in law $chool debt and a family to support. It is ridiculous.

    If you are enrolling in law school in 2015, you really need to reconsider. There is no good excuse to go to law school in this day and age. None!


    Now I have to climb out of the waste that is a result of the last three years of my life.

    1. There was no reason to go in 2010 either. They're enrolling the same way you did, by willfully ignoring all the data and because of special snowflake syndrome.

    2. You should have known better. The real story was out by the time you were applying.

  20. The law school drop in enrollment has caused law schools to reach new lows in recruitments:

    "...the law school celebrates the life of Rascal - the only canine to have ever received a law degree from Cumberland. Students can even take their dogs to class on this day."

    I believe bringing the dogs to class that day is a ploy to get the dogs enrolled at the law school.

    1. That is the stupidest article I have read in a long time. Law school has turned into a circus. What a joke.

  21. When are they going to close Touro and Brooklyn?

    1. Touro is doing so freaking AWESOME that they're proud to be hosting a conference on, wait for it, Billy Joel and the law. Just think of the poor dupes who are paying some $44K per year for this kind of dogshit.

      Touro doesn't need to close. Touro needs to be burned to the fucking ground.


    On March 9, 2015, the Law School Truth Center covered this article - in typical comical fashion. The entry was entitled "Her Name is Rio and She Wants a New Law School." Check out this opening:

    "So the Washington Post has put out yet another irresponsible article about law schools being in a "death spiral," written by Dorothy Brown of Emory, one of those turncoat professors. Of course, they aren't, and even if they were, they'd be taking American justice with them.

    Some particularly odoriferous bits of blahbity-blah inanity:

    No law school has figured out how to handle the new normal of legal education: the lowest number of applicants in four decades; fewer legal jobs for graduates; and, according to Moody’s, “no relief in sight.”
    Legal scholarship is in a terrible state...
    Law schools are run by the faculty for the faculty. A former colleague once put it like this: “If we could run this law school without students, this place would be perfect.” [ed. - this sounds confidential to me; did these heretics manage to avoid learning about "hush-hush" in their paltry-compared-to-trustier-faculty legal careers?] He happened to be the dean.
    But while faculty cannot be terminated, their summer research stipends can be. Other disciplines require faculty to obtain external funding to support their work. Law schools should take a similar approach.

    This high-and-mighty Campos-lite charlatanism is devoid of the proper respect law schools deserve as a result of their existence guarding the pot o' gold at the end of justice's rainbow. And because Ms. Brown is female, we can invoke gendered criticisms as well. What a bitch!"

    At this point, only the willfully ignorant are unaware of the law school scam. Who the hell would want to incur an additional $120K-$165K in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, for a mere chance to enter this GLUTTED "profession"?!?!

  23. Nando,

    I discovered your site here in very late 2009 as I was researching a run at law school and preparing for LSAT. As the time, I the info and general opinions on your site (even got into a couple arguments with you back then). I pushed forward on the LSAT and scored well on it (174). I had numerous law schools begging me to apply ASAP.

    However, as is par for the course for me, I gather info from many different places before making a major life decision, even if I don't agree with them. The info and stats on your site began to be verified by other more neutral stat trackers. Combined with the difficulty I had finding a job in my first field due to oversaturation of that market (teaching), your site and a couple of local lawyers I talked to put just enough question in my mind that I delayed my application processes for one year.

    What a difference that made. In that one year, it became painfully obvious that going to law school would have the same outcome as my degree in education did in terms of job potential. I chose NOT to apply to any law school. Instead, I turned to skills I picked up over time dating from my middle school years in one of my hobbies (computers).

    Long story short, I'm pulling down 135k as an IT systems administrator now. The job has nothing to do with either my bachelor or master degrees, but I'm good at it and enjoy it.

    This site putting just enough doubt in my mind to delay applications for a year very likely kept my family intact and saved me from financial ruin on a nuclear scale.

    To any considering law school who reads this: find something you enjoy doing and turn that into a career. You'll be a lot happier and have less debt.

    Nando, if you want a better write up of this, let me know and I'll write up a guest post for you or something.

  24. Nando,

    Did you see this?

  25. And one more:


    On March 11, 2015, Today's General Counsel covered this article in an entry labeled "Law School Death Spiral?" Here is the entire text:

    "A deteriorated market for their graduates - and a consequent shrinking number of applicants - is a big part of the problem, but far from all of it, according to Dorothy A. Brown, professor at Emory University School of Law, writing in the Washington Post. Another problem is the mechanism by which scholarship - that is, articles by faculty - is produced, a system that is marred by perverse incentives and a selection process that engenders mediocrity. Moreover, now that law schools are no longer the institutional cash cows they used to be, the entire broken system ends up being subsidized disproportionately by low-income students. It’s a sorry picture and one that won’t change for the better, the writer predicts, until the system gets jolted by the closure of a top law school."

    A few fourth tier trash pits might close, but if a higher ranked diploma mill closes that would grab everyone’s attention. Perhaps, a parent college or univer$ity will decide that it is not worth shelling out serious money to buoy up a law school. After all, administrators are accustomed to relying on these cash cows.


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