Wednesday, May 20, 2015

Drastically Reduced Toilet Paper: Pace University School of Law Offers to Match In-State Public Tuition

Wiping Your Ass With a Less Expensive Law Degree: On March 18, 2015, Jacob Gershman’s piece, “Law School Fire Sale: Pace Offers to Match In-State Public Tuition,” appeared in the Wall Street Journal Law Blog. Look at this excellent opening:

“Crazy Eddie” would be proud. 

Pace University Law School in New York isn’t the first law school to slash its prices to lure more students. But a new tuition program the private school is set to announce takes the discounting trend to a whole new level.

Starting next academic year, qualifying students who enroll at Pace can earn a law degree at the tuition rate of their home-state public law school. 

The program isn’t offered to any applicant. A Pace spokesman told Law Blog that eligibility would be mostly based on applicant GPA and LSAT scores with a loose cut-off around the median scores of Pace’s own students. 

In the last three years, a growing number of law schools have trimmed their prices, seeking to draw price-sensitive students amid a national decline in applicants.

But Pace officials say their program is the first of its kind in the nation. Seton Hall in New Jersey hasa more limited option that matches the in-state rate of just New Jersey public law schools. 

Pace’s regular full-time tuition now stands at $45,376, about $20,000 higher than the average in-state tuition at U.S. public law schools. 

The size of the discount would vary depending on the home state of the applicant. University of Florida, for example, charges in-state residents about $22,200. So an accepted applicant from Florida would pay less than half of Pace’s normal rate. The discount would be even steeper for students from Arkansas, whose in-state tuition stands around $14,000. 

The Pace spokesman said the matching rate covers all three years and is available to only future students.” [Emphasis mine]

Do you think these bitches and hags are offering this steep-ass tuition discount voluntarily, i.e. out of the goodness of their hearts?!?! The fact remains that this is a third tier commode that is desperately trying to remain solvent.

Cockroach Faculty Pay Reduced by 10 Percent: On May 14, 2015, Paul Caron wrote an entry labeled “In Wake of 35% Enrollment Decline, Pace Law School Dean Cuts Faculty Pay 10%, Eliminates Research Stipends And Sabbaticals, And Warns Faculty Not To Speak to Press.” Here is the entirety of that article: 

“Brian Leiter (Chicago) reports that in the face of a $5 million deficit, Pace Law School Dean David Yassky has pledged to cut $2.1 million of that deficit through a 10% salary cut for all faculty, elimination of all research stipends and sabbaticals, and a 5% salary cut for senior staff. Perhaps most curiously:

[T]he Dean, according to one source, "forbade anyone from speaking to the press about this. The materials he passed out carried two watermarks, one large across the text, and another secret one (or so he said), with each faculty member's name so he will know who the leak is, he said. 

Pace's enrollment has declined 35% since 2011, and its 25th/50th/75th LSAT has fallen three points, to 148/151/153.” [Emphasis mine]

Yes, what a remarkable in$TTTiTTTuTTTion of “higher learning,” huh?!?! Hell, it seems that beauty school has higher admissions standards than this certified dung heap. Real law schools wouldn’t even CONSIDER applicants with a 153 LSAT score. And this pile of excrement accepts them! In fact, such a putrid score would place you in the 75th percentile of first year students at this trash pit.

Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, Pace Univer$iTTTy Sewer of Law is rated as the co-138th greatest, most magnificent and sensational law school in the entire damn country. What an accomplishment, right?!?! It only shares this distinction with the following cesspools: Albany, North Dakota and the University of San Francisco.

As the Gershman article pointed out, tuition at this festering stench pit now totals $45,376 – for a chance to practice toiletlaw. That’s the equivalent of charging $28,000 for a 1984 Honda Civic hatchback with 341,026 miles on the damn thing. It might not start and third gear sticks half the time. Yes, who wouldn’t want to shell out big money for such an item?!?!

Conclusion: In the last analysis, the pigs and cockroaches – especially the older farts - at Pace “University” Sewer of Law are simply trying to extend the scam for as long as possible. They simply DO NOT GIVE ONE GODDAMN about the students, graduates or taxpayers. To these “educators,” those people are mere collateral damage. This also serves as a publicity move. Anyone who sees this as a goodwill move needs to have their brain shunt replaced. 

Lastly, it makes little difference if you walk away with $85K in additional NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt, as opposed to $140K, for the same TTT product. Your job prospects are still garbage – and you will likely earn a paltry salary. In sum, you are still incurring too much student loan debt, for the purchase of toilet paper, i.e. your law degree.


  1. At least give the school credit where it is due. It is less expensive to now attend. That is a good thing. There are still people who want to be lawyers and if they can do so for less debt, how is that bad?

    1. Because they CAN'T do it. At any price.

  2. This also begs the question, if a student lived in a state with low tuition, why would a student opt out of his local market to go to White Fucking Plains, where cost of living alone will result in a massacre. The NYC job market is not open to graduates of this cesspool, and any student from there will be entering one of the most glutted local markets in America.

    they're better off attending their local dumpster law school with 40% the cost of living and a stronger alumni base.

    or better yet, they SHOULDN'T GO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    1. They're obviously trying to stay afloat by shoving Rutgers and UConn under the water.

    2. You're right, graduates of Pace have almost no chance of finding a job in New York, and even less chance in their home state. But Pace, just like Vermont, was successful for a long time in pimping its environmental law program, which supposedly connected its graduates to a national (and even international) job market. The dispelling of that illusion is probably what halved applications to Pace over the last few years.

  3. Obvious attempt to poach warm Student Loan Conduits from anywhere they can. No school can survive a 35% decline in enrollment for very long.. They are hoping to admit as many students as possible and swell enrollment by doing this, gambling that they will enroll more bodies to offset the decreased cost and also return to some measure of earlier profitability (pre-law school enrollment collapse beginning in 2010).

    It looks like the infighting for SLC's is officially on.

    138th rank? Good luck with that JD degree from Pace.. You'll need it, especially coming to a state like NY - packed with 15 law schools and all the oversaturation you can eat. Not to mention foreign grads who do 1 year LLM's and are able to be admitted.

  4. And, here's the fish hook:

    Update: Pace’s spokesman later emailed Law Blog to clarify that the matching rate isn’t renewed automatically but is “contingent upon the student remaining in the top 50% of the class.”


    SCAM... Get ready for Section Stacking all over again! First, I was cynical.. Now, I'm really cynical.. This is just getting warm bodies to NY, through the doors of Pace, and then trapping them.


    Think about it. If you're in the bottom 50% - easy to do really and there will always be a top and bottom 50% of every class anyway - then after 1L you have what you have in terms of grades. You are "trapped". Forget about transferring. Hell, it'd be unlikely that someone outside of the top 10% of the class could transfer, even given how badly schools want more SLC's. You are coming from a 138th ranked school. Also, at these TTTs, they classically set the 1L grades low to prevent transferring. Rank is rank and that's relative. But they get you on the GPA..

    Your only options at this point, after losing the lower rate, are to drop or continue for 2L and 3L. So really, Pace is lying again. It's not going to be public tuition Home State Rate for all 3 years for everybody.. Maybe 10-20 (section stacking again..)

    They will gin that up to death and play these Lemmings like harps.

    1. Shameless. If you want to be magnanimous and charge less for tuition, then man-up and charge less for tuition.

      But no, we are talking about mamby-pamby deans and profs. For 50% of the class, it is a bait-and-switch scheme - full stop.

    2. Part 2 of my post:

      It's going to be the majority of the people awarded these contingent tuition prices that get scammed. I'll do an example:

      Incoming Class size: 180.

      Number of students being given discounts based on home-state public law school cost:


      Now, do you see how this can and will go down?

      1/3rd of the entering class of 180 is being given, initially, the discount. Problem: (for Pace) - they want the full amount.

      Solution: Section Stack + Section Curve.

      Stack the majority of those awarded the discounts in one section (called 'A"). They are now all competing against one another.

      Part 2: Set 1L curve. Remaining 2 sections of 60 ea. are set higher than Section A. Or, for instance, set B higher and C at desired curve GPA and set Section A lower. It will not matter as A + B + C will average to desired 1L curved GPA. It will matter, however, to section A when ranked.

      Do you see how easy it will be to gin these people out of this discount after 1L? In an extreme example, you could eliminate say 40 out of 60 after 1L. Now, since some will be on the border during 2L, you can knock off the stragglers during 2L, 1S or 2L, 2S. Same for the remaining 1st semester of 3L.

      It won't go by year. It can go by semester as well if they rank that way.

      It's conceivable that by the end, maybe 10% of that 60 people will have received the full tuition discount for all 3 years. That would be 6 people out of 60..

      And before anyone says they would never do something like that, come on.. 15 lawsuits. 15 dismissals. When outright fraud in terms of incoming literature and bogus job placement stats is blatantly obvious.

      By the time there were even lawsuits over this, the current staff at Pace will be long-absconded with the booty. Kick the Can down the road. Do the crime and risk (very, very unlikely with law schools) any potential punishment much later.

      Who thinks these scum won't do something like this? If you do, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you. Plus the Brooklyn Bridge, plus that building in the movie with Catherine Zeta Jones (Petronas Towers). I own that too.

  5. If you act today you can be the proud of owner of this baggie of cat diarrhea, and I'll price match to your local jeweler's 5 carat diamond cost.

    Is it a "discount" if Pace charges a student the same as UC Berkeley? NO!

  6. I think the people that run Pace are literally retarded.

    Their scheme is really good for making people realize Pace is ripping them off, badly.

    Gee, maybe the kid from Virginia paying a UVA price at Pace is going to be pissed his friend from Florida is paying a U of Florida price to attend Pace.

    Do you think maybe CURRENT students are going to be pissed at what they are paying? Maybe they leave, huh?

    Is this type of price-matching even legal under the Sherman Act?

  7. "We're practically giving JDs away!"

    -Pace Law School Dean channeling the ghost of Eddie Antar

    1. Antar is still alive and living in Brooklyn.

  8. Wasn't the Pace Law Dean the former head of the NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission? Hey Yassky, how can you lie to your students by selling them a watered down degree? Between buying a NYC taxi medallion for $500K or throwing away $350K for a Pace Law diploma, I would rather buy the taxi medallion which historically has appreciated in value with time. You can't say the same about a JD.

  9. Anything to get asses in seats.

  10. Good pic. The girl in that pic looks so happy she's getting a great deal on t.p. That'll be the new Pace dummies paying in state tuition.

    Until they don't make it in the top 1/2 of the class that is. Suckers.

  11. Wow -- will they match New York State resident tuition at CUNY (Queens) or SUNY ( Buffalo) -- which I think is about 8K???

  12. Aspen Man Hires Stuffed Owl As His Defense Attorney

    The owl is probably more qualified than a Cooley, Touro, or Brooklyn graduate. Won more cases too.

    1. Which law school is a bigger piece of shit, Touro or Pace?

    2. Hofstra is probably worse than either one, simply because it has a slight veneer of quality for whatever reason. That makes it an attractive nuisance, although failed lawyers like Old Guy wouldn't really understand.

  13. "Co-138th ranked (tied with 3 other schools)" out of ~200 schools <--- hilarious.


    Back on January 13, 2015, JDU poster “ichininosan” started a thread labeled “David Yassky (Pace) Joins the Scam.” Here is the full text of his original comment:

    “Pace Law School, a school with abhorrent employment results in recent years, is teaming up with the College of Saint Rose in Albany to "help" college students go to third tier law schools with their 3 for 3 program -- three years of college + three years of Pace Law tuition.

    Here's the sales pitch:

    1. "'[T]he demand for lawyers is quite high. We still have [a] large need for lawyers to serve especially middle-income and lower-income people.'”

    Ah yes, the middle-income and lower-income people and their need for lawyers. This is what lawyers know as the "pro bono market" -- the lawyers for people who cannot afford them. People who serve this market are compensated not with money but knowledge that their deeds will perhaps someday be recognized.

    Go to Pace!

    2. “I think this partnership is terrific because it works well for both parties,”

    "Parties." In this case, the "parties" are the College of Saint Rose, and whatever benefits they receive and Pace Law School, which receives $45,376 per "student."

    Go to Pace!

    3. “'It’s really a twofer, less debt and you begin working earlier to start paying off that debt,' says Yassky"

    Who doesn't love "twofers?" Job and less debt are guaranteed. When one takes out $180K in debt to attend Pace, obviously they'll have a job. Pace reports (because it must) the following (grads / Biglaw placement / unemployed + status unknown):

    2013: 294 / 12 / 53
    2012: 230 / 3/ 37
    2011: 222 / 10 / 40

    Go to Pace!”

    What a great summary of this TTT partner$hip between Pace Univer$ity Sewer of Law and something called the College of $aint Ro$e. The law students are a mere means to an end. We have known for years that the pigs will do and say anything to get asses in seats. At this point, Pace will basically accept prospective lemmings who manage to turn in applications that are not covered in mustard stains or vomit.


    On May 18, 2015 at 7:06 am, the ABA Journal published a Debra Cassens Weiss piece entitled "Paychecks will shrink for Pace Law School professors and staffers." The full article is posted below:

    "Pace Law School is avoiding faculty and staff layoffs with across-the-board wage cuts.

    Law professors will see their paychecks cut by 10 percent while staffers’ wages will be cut by 5 percent, report the New York Law Journal (sub. req.) and the Wall Street Journal Law Blog, which cite Brian Leiter’s Law School Reports. The school’s research budget is also being trimmed.

    Pace law professor Alexander Greenawalt told the New York Law Journal he thinks the law dean is doing his best to act in the school’s best interests. “Honestly, I’m not happy to have to have a pay cut, but I don’t think I would take this as a sign that the law school is in free fall, either,” Greenawalt said.

    Pace Law School announced a program in March to lure more students to enroll. Pace will cut its tuition for students with qualifying credentials to match the amount charged by a public law school in a student’s home state.

    Between 2011 and 2014, applications to Pace Law School dropped almost 50 percent and enrollment declined about 18 percent, the Law Blog says."

    In the end, Pace “University” Sewer of Law is losing money and is hoping that the parent in$titution will be able to keep it afloat, while the commode somehow sees an uptick in enrollment. College$ and univer$itie$ have relied on law schools as cash cows, for decades. It will be interesting to see how long the larger academy – now run by businessmen and not egghead “educators” – will be willing to let this ABA-accredited toilet mooch and freeload.

  16. Dumps, all of them. 200+ law schools for a job that's a niche role in major companies.

  17. Let me address 2 separate things:

    1) Going to St. Rose in (relatively) low-cost-Albany and then getting whacked with 3 more high-cost years of law school in the outlying NYC metro area is the very definition of insanity. 3 years of college tuition is bad enough + COL. About $35,000 / yr. for everything included. So right there, that's $105,000 on a very-non-elite undergrad program. Problem #2: Now you've done 3 years in slow-ville Albany and have to go to Pace. Everything for 3 years (Notice it's St. Rose getting shaved, NOT Pace... They get 3 full years' tuition.) is $46,000. Add it all up: We're already at $105 + 138 (46x3) = $243 grand. Plus ancillaries, we'll call it at a cool $$250K - or a quarter of a million dollars. That is to say, $250,000 in non-dischargeable debt for 2 extremely questionable degrees. Employers hate and don't understand dual degrees. The undergrad will likely be in some BS field-Poly Sci, History, Literature, Philosophy, English, Communications. So that's useless, especially from a very-non-elite, very regional school. The law degree is the same, and with a 138 ranking. You are going to be beaten by nearly everybody no matter how well you do. The Elite kids went to better schools: Beaten. Contacts: Beaten. The undergrads have kids from wealthy with Mommy and Daddy paying: Beaten there alone. The law school: Same. Beaten. You're beaten, trapped, and Reverse-Robin Hooded until your a bloody financial pulp. Next, in Part 2 of my post, we'll address the Public In-State Home Tuition Discount Scam.

    1. Part 3 of my post:

      IMO, 3+3. This means that they are grabbing students from just after high school, i.e. high-school graduates are their targets. Doesn't this throw a wrench into the whole "sophisticated consumer" bullshit that the Politicians in Black Robes came up with??

      The only Real World experience a H.S. grad has is working a few part-time jobs and, maybe, in a family business. And, of course, no life-crippling debt which makes them quite a desirable sheep to be sheared by the education industry predators.

      Nice try, Boomer Politicians in Black Robes.. The lying never stops with you, does it? You sold out a long time ago and will sell out anyone to keep the money and good times coming your way.

      This is what you're up against Lemmings. Not simply the educators but an entire system designed against you, to fleece you. Don't say you weren't warned..

    2. I say again:

      "Boomer" means NOTHING.

      There are good people at all ages and a few bad people at all ages. Attacking "Boomers" is not helpful or descriptive of the problem. It is the greedy and arrogant.

      I AM a "Boomer" and have posted many times in support of the Law Scambloggers as they are right.

      I have built a miserable little practice caring for plain folks. Made a mediocre living, and proud to have helped plain folks.

      But I will be DAMMED to let you denigrate ALL boomers because of the greed of a few.

      38 year solo (Cincinnatus).

    3. Not only do those who blame the boomers sound completely inane, they detract from the scam blog movement because of their lack of credibility. The people who attack the "boomers" are psychologically damaged people who lash out to blame everybody else for their bad decisions. It can't be their fault though, so its the "Boomers" who forced them to go to law-school and incur lots of debt. They learned something about Capitalism in College, presumably, but somehow concluded it did not apply to them. They were entitled to the most with the least amount of efforts on their part. Pathetic really. And I too am a big scam supporter. I can't stand what Law Schools, the banks, etc. have done to people and the economy. But I can't stand even more how these entitled shits think and cast blame on everybody else bu themselves. Plenty of the non entitled Millenials are making a good living . . some having joined the military, others have pursued other paths than those they thought would bring them respectability and wealth simply by going to school.

    4. Bull.. Both of you and the Boomer Apologist Gribble, who I think is more an idiot than I gave him credit for previously.

      I'll just let Tyler Durden post my thoughts for me:

      So, 10:50 am, you're FOS, as is Gribble and the venerable 38 Year Solo. It's a Zero-Sum Game, the Pie is only so big and it's been inflated on debt, the benefits of which, by and large, accrued to the Boomers and the tab left to be picked up by succeeding generations.

    5. Oh.. let me get this straight: So now the 3+3 grad, $250K in debt from Pace, is "entitled"??

      The generations after the Boomers have better credentials, more of them (dual degrees) and yet will never enjoy a standard of living close to what their Boomer parents did.

      What least effort?

      You're completely full of crap.. It's about 200% more effort for 2000% less payback. But to you and the Boomers, I suppose this is "whining" and "entitlement".

    6. Joining the military? Good choice idiot.. Gotta fight for a dying system that was ruined starting in the 80's. Only morons would be so stupid. And I guess people wanting cheap, reasonable higher education that doesn't cripple them for life so some tenured Boomer who's been teaching for 4-6 hours per week can enjoy the High Life is insane as well?

      You're an idiot. Not just an idiot. A complete idiot because you don't even know who your enemy is.

    7. 18 trillion in spending never taxed. Tens of trillions more in underfunded liabilities to old people entitlements.

      The Good Millennials will vote to restore capitalism by ending these programs outright.

      I learned something about capitalism, namely, that we do not live in a capitalist country.

      And for the record, Boomer taxpayers never lent any student money to go to college. FFELP was private capital. Direct federal student lending is deficit spending - financed since its inception to date by selling US Treasury bonds to the Federal Reserve.

      What did you pay for? Nothing.

    8. @1136,

      "The generations after the Boomers have better credentials, more of them (dual degrees) and yet will never enjoy a standard of living close to what their Boomer parents did."

      Um, you seriously DON'T think you have an entitled attitude? You sure SOUND entitled.

      And SPEAKING of entitled attitudes:


      "Joining the military? Good choice idiot.. Gotta fight for a dying system that was ruined starting in the 80's. Only morons would be so stupid."

      I guess smart roachies like you would rather not work at all than take a job that is "beneath" you. But then again, you roachies seem to have a dozen or so excuses for not taking each and every type of job out there. LOL, as if spending five years at some fourth-tier bumblefuck private college would entitle you to an executive position at Goldman Sachs.

      Nooooooo, you aren't "entitled." Not one bit.


    9. Make no mistake, the Boomers are on nobody's side but their own:

      And that's what pisses me off as this article so rightly notes. They are now "The Man" and yet try to convince everyone that hey.. we're not so bad and we're on your side.. That and their epic sense of arrogance and entitlement.

    10. 11:36,

      "The generations after the Boomers have better credentials, more of them (dual degrees) and yet will never enjoy a standard of living close to what their Boomer parents did ... It's about 200% more effort for 2000% less payback."

      LOL, "2000% less payback"?

      100% less payback would mean working for free.

      Maybe your "credentials" aren't as good as you think they are. You certainly aren't coming out of MIT with that "2000% less" nonsense.

    11. Cry me a river. in the forties we had the greatest genetation, and the millenials, the whineiest generation. Complain, bitch, blame everybody but yourselves. Boo hook hoo. How was I supposed to know not to sign a 6 figure promissory note when I was 22 to go to a 4th tier bottom feeding school. The Internet has only been around since the 80s.

    12. Oh Hi Message Discipline / JD Painter Troll! Now I know who you are.. "Oh I am a Big Supporter of the Scamblog Movement!"

      Sure you are..

      Until someone does what you don't want and then it's: "Should've known better!"

      Go run off and join the military. Suuure idiot.. So I can be a true indentured Serf and fight for cheap oil.. Then, when I get seriously injured, the VA can refuse to treat me.. You're only useful to the System when you're not damaged goods.. Btw, you do know that's a "G" (gov't) job, right? By your, and the law schools logic, everyone should run off and get a "G" job. We can all have them. Just like everyone can work in the service economy swapping services..


    13. 9:50 is clearly too smart to work. He thinks his five-year undergraduate degree from Bumblefuck College entitles him to a job at Goldman Sachs. And until someone breaks down his goddamn DOOR and whisks him away to that job, he'll just go right on living at his mom's house, thank you very much. He's dug himself into her butt like a fucking tick. Good luck digging him out...

      At any rate, there is a government job for you if you actually want to work, 950. It might not be as a five-star general in the JAG Corps or as Secretary of State, but there's *A* job for you. You just don't want to work - it's as simple as that.

      As for your straw-man argument, I realise the economy doesn't work if "everyone" gets a government job. But are YOU "everyone," Lazybones?

      Say hi to your victim I mean mom for me. My my my, you develop some FIERCE little political opinions when you don't feel like looking for work, don't you? Whatever gets you to sleep at night.

    14. @yadroc: Shut the fuck up.

      It's obvious who you are. Stop attacking all the posters and going off on your retarded psychotic rants.

      Man up already and stop blaming everyone and everything for your life's failures. There is only so much that is reasonable to complain about, and when you start blaming entire generations and throw out foul insults every other sentence you've crossed the line.

      And yes, we know who you are. It's obvious from your writing style.

  18. The chick in the photo would be a 9 in law school world where the women are typically ugly to plain. A 6 in the real world.

    1. Undoubtedly, but maybe pretty good for the real world, too. I'd say a 7.

      I may have a logarithmic scale going on in my mind, though. An 8 is jaw-dropping, a 9 is almost incomprehensible, and a 10 induces shock. So a 7 is pretty darn respectable in my book.

    2. Can we get past adolescent issues and back to life destroying issues?

    3. That chick is cute. I just rubbed one out looking t that pic.

      '05 Pace law grad

    4. "Life destroying issues, please?"


  19. Nando- you need to respond to this one:

  20. It’s Crazy Pace’s Christmas in August
    We’ve got Con Law. We got torts. We gots Rawlsian Theories of Justice.
    At prices so low we’re practically giving it away!!!
    Crazy Pace’s. There prices are insane!!!
    Disclaimer: If you attend this over-priced diploma mill, you, too, are insane.

  21. Several weeks ago, I counseled an accounting major on the advisability of attending law school, ranked about 125.

    Instead of obtaining a master's degree in accounting and thereby earning sufficient hours to sit for the CPA exam, he is not going to do that, and pursue law.

    I am distressed.

    38 year solo.

    (I say again: my 3 sons are not lawyers, though I could give them a "going concern" law practice.

    I could not afford to pay off $100,000 in tuition debt EVEN FROM MY 38 YEAR LAW PRACTICE INCOME much less being a "newbie."

    What the HELL are these people thinking?

    I guess I should charge $36,000 for my advice (per 0L and THEN they would listen to me-I would FINALLY be making something from practicing law).

    So, Cincinnatus gives up. Let fools rot.

    Goodbye gribble. You listen. And seem like a fine, sensible person.

    I now head off to curse the darkness for want of lighting a candle.

    38 year solo.

    (And my 3 sons-STILL are never going to be lawyers, thank God.)

    1. I hope you won't quit posting, Cincy. You have far more insight and integrity than most of the blowhards who comment here.

    2. Thanks for your kind reply.

      I pour out my soul here.

      It is work to do so.

      How many listen? They are on track to ruin their financial lives, for at least 2.5 decades. 25 years.

      Just today on CNN news a Binden advisor commented on the 1.2 TRILLION of tuition debt, how it was preventing students from buying homes, cars, having children, eating ramen (kidding), eating Ralston monkey chow (not kidding so much). Student debt will DRAMATICALLY change the financial development and progress of America. The next "class" of presumptively entitled will be just broke.

      So I agonize.

      Will anyone listen?

      As a loving parent of 3 sons, I would love to give them my 38 year practice so that are ESTABLISHED.

      I don't want, and they will never be, attorneys.

      I intend to send my practice to the landfill the day I quit.

      Who the HELL cannot understand the abject hopelessness of this?


  22. "Seton Hall in New Jersey hasa more limited option that matches the in-state rate of just New Jersey public law schools".

    ....And it's still overpriced! SHU should be paying students to attend that crapfest!


    Here is my profile of Pace Univer$ity Law Sewer, back from October 17, 2010. Here is a featured graduate of this filthy stink pit.

    Back on April 8, 2010, WNYC report Ailsa Chang wrote an excellent article entitled “Trouble with the Law: Laid-Off Attorneys Pursue New Paths.” The following portions pertain to the Pace Law grad:

    “But for 27-year-old Mike Kremen, a law degree landed him a job as an assistant manager at Radio Shack.

    Kremen graduated from Pace Law School about two years ago – right when the recession was picking up and the legal industry started to hemorrhage jobs. He’s still waiting for his first full-time legal job offer. He says he might be the only employee in the history of this White Plains Radio Shack who’s passed both the New York and Connecticut bar exams.”

    Yeah, Kremen’s “legal education” sure paid off for him, didn’t it, people? He passed both the New York and Connecticut bar exams, and he started out making $7.65 an hour at Radio Shack! The typical TTT lemming will not even consider that this fate could happen to them.

    The piece continued:

    “I’ve had people ask me, ‘Why are you still at Radio Shack?’ And the answer is, ‘Because I have a job,’” Kremen says. “I have a lot of friends that don’t have jobs, and I tell them, if you want a job, you could probably find a job.”

    Deciding to become a lawyer is supposed to be the safe choice. But the recession turned that assumption on its head, leading to lay-offs, rescinded job offers, and bankruptcies. Law firms are just beginning to heal, but thousands of lawyers still remain unemployed. They now represent some of the most highly educated, highly skilled, and highly indebted workers still without jobs in New York.

    Kremen puts in about 11 hours a day, six days a week at radio Shack -– the kind of hours you see associates pulling at some of New York’s top law firms. But instead of a starting salary of $160,000, Kremen started here at $7.65 an hour.

    Kremen still wants that New York law firm job. He’s straining under about $200,000 of law school and credit card debt.”

    By the way, Mr. Kremen counted as both having passed the bar exam – and as “employed.” Then again, maybe the career development office bitches and hags worked hard to help this man find such a prestigious job, right?!?!

  24. And Radio Shack is now bankrupt ....


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