Thursday, June 25, 2015

Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University Seeks to Game the Employment Placement Numbers

The Dung Heap’s “Jobs Program”: On June 24, 2015, Staci Zaretsky posted an ATL entry labeled “This Is How One Law School Is Trying To Game Its Job Statistics.” Look at the following excerpt:

“[O]ne law school is attempting to get traction for its latest graduate employment program — a program that will fulfill all of the U.S. News requirements for a greater employment-placement weight come rankings time. Before we describe the program, here’s what one of our sources had to say about it: 

I thought the legal community would like to know Cardozo’s plans for keeping up its employment numbers. Hopefully, it won’t put the rest of us making a living wage out of work. 

Yes, Cardozo Law, a school where students apparently need walking instructions, is rolling out a brand-new jobs program for its unemployed 2015 graduates, and it’s targeting small to mid-size firms in the process. Here’s the school’s email pitch from a career services officer, with a subject line that reads “$38k — Hire a Junior Attorney”: 

I want to let you know about a great program that allows small-medium size firms and legal departments hire talented junior attorneys for a one year commitment at a salary of $38,000 (paid by the employer). The Resident Associate Mentor Program (RAMP) allows you to build and grow your practice without taking on a heavy financial burden or making a commitment to an attorney beyond one year. You are also helping a young lawyer embark on their legal career. We are actively recruiting employers to hire 2015 graduates with a start date in August/September. Please get in touch if you are interested in participating or learning more. I am attaching a flyer with additional information. 


Leila J. Faridi | Employer Outreach Coordinator
Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law 

Cardozo is offering employers the chance to spend their own money to support one of its graduates for at least a year. Yes, friends, for just $104 a day, you can help save Cardozo Law’s employment statistics. Just 56.9 percent of the class of 2014 were employed in full-time, long-term jobs where bar passage was required, but with a program like this, Cardozo could stand to potentially bump that number up to at least 60 percent.” [Emphasis mine]

Now, scroll down to her conclusion:

“The only people who are getting true value out of this program are Cardozo Law’s career services staff members — they won’t have to explain why so many of their graduates aren’t employed as lawyers, and U.S. News will look kindly upon their job statistics.”

This is exactly the point of the RAMP program. Again, the students are a mere means to an end, i.e. big-ass bags of federal student loan dollars.

The Description: The Resident Associate Mentor Program, in the pigs’ own words:

“For Employers, RAMP Provides: 

• An opportunity for small- and medium- sized firms and legal departments to employ new lawyers at an affordable cost 

• A way to grow their firm or legal department by hiring bright and motivated new lawyers without taking on a financial commitment beyond one year

At the end of one year the legal residency ends, but employers can sign up for another year with a new Resident Associate, or if they wish, they can hire their already-trained associate on terms that work for both parties. 

For Recent Graduates, RAMP Provides:

• Fellowship-style jobs, in which they perform the equivalent of associate work for one year 

• A chance to build essential practice skills, and to work directly with clients 

• An opportunity to be better positioned to make a lateral move with experience, and a great way to launch a permanent career 

Salary: $43,000 potential salary, consisting of a guaranteed $38,000 salary with an optional $5,000 increase with bar examination passage or bar admission. The salary is competitive with a fellowship or residency program, making it affordable for RAMP employers to hire new associates when they otherwise would not have done so. 

Benefits: A benefits package is not required as a condition to participate in RAMP; however, we strongly urge employers to offer one.” [Emphasis mine]

How lucrative for the grads, right?!?! Way to pimp out your students, cockroaches. For $ome rea$on, the bitches and hags “overlooked” the benefits to the ABA-accredited trash heap, i.e. gaming the employment “placement” statistics. What a noble gesture, huh?!?! By the way, relying on a second tier cesspool’s rankings-gaming effort to “launch a permanent career” is about as smart as having your cat watch your tuna fish sandwich – while you go out and run a few errands. Then again, in the latter scenario, if the animal does the expected, then you are only out some bread and maybe a couple of bucks.

Conclusion: Avoid this filthy pile of excrement at all costs. In the end, the bastards KNOW that they are offering a garbage “education,” which provides their students and graduates with putrid job prospects. Again, who in the hell takes out an average of $121,644 in NON-DISCHARGEABLE debt for a chance to rake in $38K per year in a temporary legal job?!?! Remember, the law school confidence men need easy marks/willing victims, in order to perpetrate the scam.


  1. LMFAO. Law school confidence men. You are the fucking shit Nando.

    I will also use this as a time to thank you for talking me out of the scam years ago and saving my financial hide.

    I had heard it, but your message was all that resonated.

    You are the fucking man

  2. So if I understand this correctly, we have a law school which is acting as labor ready, but without a direct payment, setting a wage floor, in an attempt to get employers interested in it's graduates.

    The sad thing is that there are Cardozo grads undoubtedly working for less then $38 K for year. Because of this fact, it's not an evil offer but a sad commentary on what a Cardozo degree is really worth in shit law practice.

  3. So, call it $2,000 take home per month and then $1000 for student loan on a 10 year plan. Eat and clothe oneself from the dumpster and pay the remaining $1,000 in rent.

  4. These con artists will sink to any depth to keep the federal $$$ rolling in.
    But I have to ask-how did they really come up with the $38,000 salary(with no benefits...)? Probably took the average debt of each student and divided by three(lawyers aren't so good at math).

  5. Harry Scrotum, esq.June 25, 2015 at 7:36 PM

    I just looked up the tuition for this shithole. It's sickening.

  6. Notice that Carbozo prefers that the employer "sign up for another year with a new Resident Associate" rather than keeping the old graduate after the year is up.

    I'd be surprised if even two graduates of Carbozo got jobs in this way. Carbozo does its graduates (and current students) no favors by advertising that they are not employable even at $38k for a one-year fixed-term assignment.

  7. The point of a real residency or apprenticeship is that you are an underpaid and overworked lapdog for a few years and then you get to be an overpaid, secure member of a protected profession.

    All this is a one-year job making a crap wage. If anything, it likely increases the odds one is vaporized from the profession five years later.

  8. I find this...baffling. If anything, this seems kind of like an honest disclosure: "Our graduates are so screwed they will work for 38k in NY!! Pretty Please!!"

    But other than hanging a sad suggested retail price tag out there (one that I would assume is about what a temp makes in NYC - especially for more than 40 hours) isn't every OCS basically just a "Jobs Wanted" ad?

    Does Cardozo think that law firms that want to hire cheap, freshly minted, zero experience JDs are somehow unaware of how to find them without Cardozo's help?

    I guess the only despicable thing here is implying that such firms should do so and feel no guilt dragging their new employees to the recycle bin at 12 months when Cardozo no longer has reason to give a shit.

  9. Why would the employer ever go through Cardozo to hire someone when they could just negotiate with the job candidate directly? Why not just hire someone at $43K/year post bar then keep them on if they work out and fire them if they don't whenever you want to? Cardozo's career office morons have no idea how employers think.And how these small to medium firms think is that they can hire whenever they need to but they have to be careful not to train their competition. Also, small to mid-sized firms are not going to hire anyone until they've passed the bar. And so, by the way, no one's contract reads "optional bonus after passing the bar." The employer can always give you a raise.

    I have no idea why anyone would go to this school when they have trouble pimping you out at $38K.

  10. Roll up, Roll up! Beat the bar and win! Place your cash on the table for a spin on the wheel. Every player wins a prize!

  11. One of the many funny aspects of this story is that the woman who sent the email seems to be a Muslim Iranian, at a Jewish law school.

    1. More likely a Baha'i refugee from Muslim genocide.

    2. Nope. See this story. Muslims but not iranian apparently.

      She and her husband went to 4tt law scools too.

      If a muslim from a 4tt can get biglaw and then a top job at a jewish law school, then maybe anything is possible.


    Tuition: Full-time law students at this atrocious pile of excrement will be charged $54,325 in tuition – for the 2015-2016 academic year. Student fees will add another $570 to the bill. What a great deal for the student! How will the “professors” and administrators be able to make a living at such rates?!?!

    To put this amount into perspective, full-time tuition at TOP RANKED Yale Law $chool – for 2015-2016 – is $55,800. Then again, fees at that in$titution are $2,250. However, there is a Grand Canyon size difference – and that is a conservative estimate – between the benefits of a Yale law degree versus one from Cardozo.

    The Dung Heap’s Ranking: According to US “News” & World Report, the Benjamin N. Cardozo Sewer of Law at Ye$hiva Univer$ity is rated as the co-75th greatest, most astounding and remarkable law school in the entire damn country. What a tremendous accomplishment, huh?!?!

    Employment “Placement” Figures: You will see that the Employment Summary for 2014 Graduates is located on this page. You will also quickly notice that there were 392 members of this cohort. That is an incredibly large graduating class. It’s a good thing that New York doesn’t already have a huge GLUT of lawyers, right?!?!

    Anyway, out of this big-ass total, only 326 grads were able to land jobs – of any type – within 10 months of receiving their TT law degrees from this stink pile. Here’s a breakdown of the unemployed: five are pursuing another advanced degree full-time; four victims had their start date deferred; eight people were not looking for work; and 48 were unemployed but seeking a job. One soul did not provide his or her employment status to the commode. As such, the official “placement” rate was 83.3%, i.e. 326/391.

    By the way, Car-Bozo ended up hiring 16 of these grads in university or law school funded positions. Of this figure, one single person was placed in a full-time, long term post. The other 15 dupes were in part-time, short term jobs with the school. If the cesspool had not done so, the “placement” rate would have been 79.3 percent, i.e. 310/391. But the pigs hired these JDs out of the goodness of their hearts, and not to game the rankings scheme, right, Dumbass?!?!

    Average Law Student Indebtedness: USN&WR lists the average law student indebtedness - for those members of the Cardozo Clown College of Law Class of 2014 who incurred debt for law school - as $121,644. $omehow, “only” 70% of this trash pit’s 2014 cohort took on such filthy debt. Don’t forget that this amount does not even include undergraduate debt. Nor does it take accrued interest into account, while the student is enrolled.

    Who in their right mind would want to attend this toilet?!?! If you are even considering Cardozo Law, then you are an ideal candidate for a brain shunt. Do not pursue your foolish “dream” of becoming a lawyer – and instead go play with some Legos and your coloring books, moron.

  13. $38K a year outside a high price area like New York City is a workable proposition. As someone else said, with Cardozo's debt, not so much.

    1. That's the thing though, all the law schools are priced to the highest debt loads possible. Why isn't a school in a rural area set to rural area positions? Why do these profs have to all get NYC pay?

      Most of the students won't get NYC pay...ever. And even those that do...their debt loads are too high to make it worthwhile, and they probably won't get an actual long term career out of it.

      And for $38k...why do you even need a college degree? Just do manual labor for double that at a rural area, right out of high school.

      It does not make sense to get 7 years of education, pass a licensing exam, pay bar dues, get a mortgage sized debt, and then make $38k a year.

  14. It should surprise no one that none other than Car-BOZO would be at the forefront of The Law School Scam!

  15. $38k per year in nyc is awful. That return on top of nearly $200,000 in debt (which will more than double thanks to compounded interest) makes it pathetic.

    1. It's worse than pathetic. It's impossible to live on.

  16. Tuition $52k
    Shit (temp) job $38k
    Living costs in NYC?



    Back on December 3, 2013, National Law Journal published a Karen Sloan piece that was entitled “Law Students, Grads Head In-House.” This was apparently re-posted by the pigs and cockroaches at the Benjamin N. Cardozo Sewer of Law. Look at this opening:

    “Jessica Blumert always knew she wanted to work in-house at a corporate legal department. She just didn't expect to get there right out of law school.The 2013 graduate of Yeshiva Univer¬sity Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law is a month into her new gig as an associate in the legal department of Diamonds International — the largest jewelry store in the Caribbean. She landed at the company through Cardozo's new Resident Associate Mentor Program, where law firms and corporate legal departments hire Cardozo alums for one year at a ¬salary of $38,000.

    Diamonds International joins ¬several corporations — Credit Suisse Group A.G., Morgan Stanley, Bank of New York Mellon Corp. and Consolidated Edison Inc. — that have pledged to or have already hired law students and recent graduates for temporary in-house counsel stints.
    They're doing so under pilot programs like Cardozo's — one of a handful of efforts recently launched by law schools and bar associations that provide practical experience and perhaps lead to permanent jobs. Many of these programs center on or include corporate legal departments, challenging a prevalent notion that new lawyers don't belong in-house. Legal departments traditionally have shied away from hiring green lawyers and training law students, preferring instead to hire laterally from law firms.

    But that's changing as companies look to cut spending on outside firms and as the pool of potential lateral associate hires shrinks with new-hire reductions, said several in-house attorneys. Working directly with law students and recent graduates will help them create a more diverse legal department, some attorneys say.

    "General counsel are now thinking, 'Maybe there is a lower tier of work that we can staff internally at a lower cost and train them ourselves,' " said Mark Morril, former general counsel of Simon & Schuster and chair of the New York City Bar Association's Task Force on New Lawyers in a Changing Profession. "They didn't hire new graduates before because they didn't have the resources to train them, but they're rethinking that."

    The New York City Bar Association this month announced the creation of its Bridge to Practice Program, in which four large companies have agreed to employ law students or recent graduates on a temporary basis. Cardozo's associate mentor program has placed two recent graduates in-house and nine others at small and medium-size firms.”

    Hell, the article quotes corporate swine and in-house lawyers who admit that they are looking to further cut their spending on outside counsel. These shrewd bastards are happy to take advantage of the GLUT of law grads each year. Thanks for shoving so many lemmings through the meat grinder, Ye$hiva Univer$iTTy bitches and hags.

  18. Hell, for $38k, they could save money by hiring Carbozos as receptionists or cleaners.

  19. Wanna take out $200k in debt (when it compounds and all is said and done)? Wanna use your law degree and make $38k in a shitty 1 year job the school set up? Then step right up, stupid motherfucker! We can enroll you into our next class. Call in the next 30 minutes and we'll toss in a set of steak knives. A $60.00 value. Absolutely free.

  20. One has to think that 38k/yr in NYC is in the range of those who work in fast food, retail, and unskilled labor. Each of those probably has better working conditions, job security, and opportunity for advancement than a Carbozo JD working in one of these "fellowships" (do they use that term with a straight face?) as well.

    1. 38k is about what a 21 year old kid will make in the police academy, and their union has consistently indicated that such a salary is unacceptable for NYC living conditions (so it will won't be 38k for long).

      Mind you, said kid will have no debt, won't be in his/her late twenties, and after 10 years he/she will make a minimum of a 100k a year and possibly 200k depending on promotions, overtime, etc. oh yeah, said kid will retire at 45.

      The same applies for firemen, garbage men, municipal tradesmen, etc.

      Even if you get big law, given the debt load and virtual certainty that you won't be employed there for more than 5 years (and liklihood that you will never make big law money again), said municipal jobs are still better.

      But if we are talking 38k, 200k, NYC living costs, and 8 years lost opportunity: BWAHAHAHAH. It's ridiculous. You are worse off than a waiter with no high school diploma or GED working off the books (they'll get minimum wage at fifteen dollars an hour soon too).

    2. You also missed OT. No cop earns that base $38k, because they can get OT, use sick days and vacation days as well. And that's without the additional value the benefits add in, like the pension and health care.

  21. Nothing much else to say. Spending 200k or more--when you consider accrued interest plus loan origination fees plus living expenses plus opportunity costs--for a shot at a one-year job that pays 38K?? In NYC?? This should be required reading for anyone considering law school in 2015. Disgusting.

  22. $38K in NYC qualifies you for food stamps and Section 8 public housing. Why go in hock for over $200K so that you can live like a miserable pauper out of a Jacob Riis's article?

    If you are thinking of attending Carbozo and can't determine the pyramid scheme your tuition dollars would support, then I see why you would need instructions on how to walk on icy sidewalks or need a guide to navigate out of trash chutes.

  23. $38K fucking lousy dollars to live in NYC? Fuck, my uncle who retired as a sanitation worker used to clear $90K a year and he didn't spend no $200K for a useless law degree.


    Check out the Law School Numbers profile for the Benjamin N. Cardozo Sewer of Law at Yeshiva University:


    Yeshiva Law School is considered a Competitive law school, which accepts only 35% of its applicants. Comparatively, Cardozo is Significantly Higher than the average cost for law school.

    Class of 2019

    Applications: 4,398
    Offers: 1,522 (34.61%)
    Matriculated: 374 (8.5%)

    25th percentile UGPA: 3.30
    Median UGPA: 3.53
    75th percentile UGPA: 3.67
    25th percentile LSAT: 158
    Median LSAT: 162
    75th percentile LSAT: 165”

    As you can see, this toilet has a low yield percentage. Evidently, many admitted students would rather attend a higher-ranked school. By the way, it speaks volumes about “legal education” when a commode is listed as “competitive” if it “only” accepts 35 percent of applicants.


    Deciding to attend law school requires a large financial investment with the goal of securing employment upon graduation. The Cardozo-Yeshiva University class of 2014 had an employment rate of 79% with 3% pursuing an additional degree.”

    This description says it all. People bust their ass to get into “professional” school – so that they can have a solid chance to enter a good-paying career. You don’t even need a damn college degree to land a decent job. However, those positions are often fleeting. Here’s Chris Rock’s take on job versus career. He mentioned that he worked at Red Lobster on Queens Boulevard back in 1989. I wonder how many Cardozo Law grads are scraping shrimp – or washing dishes - in the back of Red Lobster now.

  25. Do not attend Cardozo! The debt will destroy you, even though it's morally invalid due to fraud.

  26. Is $38k outside of NYC even anything to write home about? Food, entertainment and technology cost the same everywhere. It's not like Amazon has an NYC price and a Dayton Ohio price.

    Yeah NYC has a premium, especially on rent, but I've lived in plenty of places and $38k is going to be rough, and that's even before the student loans.

    That's one reason why people get married and then combine incomes, you can get to $50k with two people working, have a lower tax rate, and barely scrape out a living with the shared costs. $38k as a single person, boy that will be rough. I guess if you are okay with rooming with three other people well into your 30s and even 40s...

  27. Why do they charge so much? Besides the loans students take out, the school receives endowments like any other, right? Those high professors' salaries do no pay themselves. Nor do the scholarships for the students that the school actually believes will succeed (unless their educations are subsidized on the backs of less-than-stellar students who have the honor of borrowing the full tuition amount so the school can fill seats).


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